The issue nobody wants to address

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

An environment where players use parser data to demand that others improve their performance would be unpleasant for players such as those I am describing.

---

An environment of people that are 'I play how I want' are also unpleasant for players that want to do stuff reasonably well, and also the more aggressive and horrid sort, as described here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raelgun

An environment of people that are 'I play how I want' are also unpleasant for players that want to do stuff reasonably well, and also the more aggressive and horrid sort, as described here.

---

I wasn't talking about players who wave the "I play how I want" flag in peoples faces. The comment you quoted was specifically reference a group of players that were described as "situations where players are actually impaired, preventing them from be capable of playing beyond specific levels. I know several players who despite some significant challenges or impairments to their capability to react quickly, or execute rotations anything remotely like perfectly; absolutely enjoy playing FFXIV. "

I don't think it fair or accurate for you to equate being impaired in some manner, with people throwing "I play how I want" in others faces, which is what you are doing in the comment I am replying to. It's really a lot easier to discuss things when people don't mis-characterize a quote by cherry picking it and applying it in a manner not applicable to the original context.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I wasn't talking about players who wave the "I play how I want" flag in peoples faces. The comment you quoted was specifically reference a group of players that were described as "situations where players are actually impaired, preventing them from be capable of playing beyond specific levels. "

---

You know whats sad here, people like you using people who have impairments in your excuses, do you speak on their behalf? are you there ambassador? hint you aren't and just using their impairment to justify your excuses so please do everyone a favour and don't involve them.

Its sad that people like your self in this playerbase are the first lot I have ever seen to do this, people with impairments understand their limitation with end game content, they don't need you do talk down on them and use their plight and quite frankly makes you a horrible person to do so.

Sane people will treat everyone equally, if someone with impairments gets called out on performance, thats fine, they are getting treated equally as everyone else like a regular human being like they are, not special treatment cases like you are trying to shoe horn somehow, you are highlighting in a very big way that they need special treatment and the game needs to be designed that way, is that what they want? To get special treatment?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raelgun

You know whats sad here, people like you using people who have impairments in your excuses, do you speak on their behalf? are you there ambassador? hint you aren't and just using their impairment to justify your excuses so please do everyone a favour and don't involve them.

Its sad that people like your self in this playerbase are the first lot I have ever seen to do this, people with impairments understand their limitation with end game content, they don't need you do talk down on them and use their plight and quite frankly makes you a horrible person to do so.

Sane people will treat everyone equally, if someone with impairments gets called out on performance, thats fine, they are getting treated equally as everyone else like a regular human being like they are, not special treatment cases like you are trying to shoe horn somehow, you are highlighting in a very big way that they need special treatment and the game needs to be designed that way, is that what they want? To get special treatment?

---

Excuse me? What is your problem here? As it happens my son - who plays and enjoys FFXIV greatly - is quite impaired, he's autistic (high function), severely ADD and has major fine motor skill issues - among other impairments to his capability. So I know exactly what I am talking about and I'll happily represent his interests and those in the same boat as him. I think you should be taking back your nasty little comment and perhaps rethink your attitude.

The "I play how I want" always makes me chuckle a bit.. Like, do you work on your car how you want? Lets mix up some fuel and oil lines, plug this thing in somewhere. Eff that connector we don't need it *snip*... When you go to work do you do your job how you want? Eff management, they don't know nothin.

I know those aren't the same as playing a game, games are casual etc etc. But the fact is there are specific orders to play your role optimally, and these don't really change (ie, the best rotation for me on DRG is the same as the best rotation for another random DRG). Bosses in every dungeon are the same every time you run that dungeon. Titan doesn't do a landslide one encounter and not in the next, etc. Some mechanics can be handled by different people (t8 towers, as example) but it doesn't change the mechanic itself, they still need to be handled. You can't just say eff this rotation, eff these mechanics. Well you can, certainly you can, but there are consequences for such stubbornness, like, having less friends xD

I don't know, just makes me lol

And, I just saw the comments regarding disabilities.. My comment is not in response to that..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Excuse me? What is your problem here? As it happens my son - who plays and enjoys FFXIV greatly - is quite impaired, he's autistic (high function), severely ADD and has major fine motor skill issues - among other impairments to his capability. So I know exactly what I am talking about and I'll happily represent his interests and those in the same boat as him. I think you should be taking back your nasty little comment and perhaps rethink your attitude.

---

I actually have a little brother with an impairment and the last thing he wants is to be singled out being a special case for special treatment, he hates it, I treat him like I do with my other brothers so I know what I am talking about as well, hes also quite good at gaming, so no, my comment sticks, people should be treated equally and wanted to be treated equally and thats what they get.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raelgun

I actually have a little brother with an impairment and the last thing he wants is to be singled out being a special case for special treatment, he hates it, I treat him like I do with my other brothers so I know what I am talking about as well, hes also quite good at gaming, so no, my comment sticks, people should be treated equally and wanted to be treated equally and thats what they get.

---

No, your comment doesn't stick, it stinks. First of all, I'm not using any one as an excuse to oppose the introduction of parsers, nor am I asking for special treatment for, or by, anyone.

I was simply pointing out that with generally available parser numbers, the general environment of the game becomes much more competitive and less friendly and frankly unpleasant to people who because of one impairment or another will more frequently be challenged by players demanding that they parse higher.

Being opposed to having a parser of all players individual performance being generally available does NOT equate at all to asking for special treatment for anyone. I've done and said nothing to suggest that any player should be singled out for special treatment or that any person should be treated differently from any other. I'm happy that you're brother is good at gaming, gaming is wonderful for teaching spacial awareness, motor skills, exercising the ability to plan ahead, following sequences of instruction among other things, so it's great that your brother is into gaming and that is something you can share.

It's just a pity that you're so keen to attack me rather than listen to what I'm saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

the general environment of the game because much more competitive and less friendly and frankly unpleasant to people who because of one impairment or another will more frequently be challenged by players demanding that they parse higher.

Being opposed to having a parser of all players individual performance being generally available does NOT equate at all to asking for special treatment for anyone.

---

These 2 sentences contradict each other, on one hand you acknowledge reasonable demands being unpleasant to those with impairments and quick to say not asking for special treatment, then what is that then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raelgun

These 2 sentences contradict each other, on one hand you acknowledge reasonable demands being unpleasant to those with impairments and quick to say not asking for special treatment, then what is that then.

---

How on earth do you see those as contradicting each other? One describes how a change to an environment may make some people (from among many groups) feel about it, and the other simply asserts that being opposed to having a parser of all players individual performance being generally available does NOT equate at all to asking for special treatment for anyone. There is no contradiction, except that in your own head.

I'm not gonna argue in circles with you here, I feel you're being both unreasonable and unnecessarily combative, so have fun on your own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm not gonna argue in circles with you here, I feel you're being both unreasonable and unnecessarily combative, so have fun on your own.

---

You know that you were quite offensive yourself in this thread? ^.^

But I have to agree, it is not contradiction, because without parser nobody has to perform (except tanks and healers >.>), so there is no special treatment required.

On different matter - we can't let the playerbase suffer players that aren't cooperative enough, just to protect the less able few.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archaell

You know that you were quite offensive yourself in this thread? ^.^

---

I used sarcasm, folks didn't like it, I stopped. However, I did not attack anyone, though I was certainly critical of some ideas and opinions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archaell

On different matter - we can't let the playerbase suffer players that aren't cooperative enough, just to protect the less able few.

---

I agree that the player-base doesn't need to suffer uncooperative players, but I honestly do not see generally available parsing of individual players performance data as a solution to that. I don't believe that a player who is being uncooperative will suddenly become cooperative simply because someone can show numerically that they are the worst performer in the party. I'm not opposed to parsers to protect a less able few, I'm against them because I don't think that bringing a more competitive and critical tone to the community will be productive or healthy for the community in the long run.

Actually, if you read through my posts, and I think you have and already know, but I'll spell it out for others, I'm not totally opposed to the use of parsers. I think that they can be tools that have a use in end-game. I'd also agree that a parser would be useful if a a group wanted to practice together in a party trying their rotations out in real combat. These are all instances where the use of a parser is contained within the private context of the group using it. Where I draw the line is having a parser just out there that anyone can look at which lists players by their DPS score whether they want it to or not.

Actually, now I have said that, there is one thing that SE could do and I wouldn't care at all about how they implement parsing. Make the parser an opt-in tool. In other words, add a setting to the character information that let's you opt into being parsed if you don't mind, but by default leaves you opted out of the parser. That way those who want to use a parser can, but the scope for abusing the in-game parser would be more or less eliminated.

I still stand by all my comments about unrestricted us of parsers and parse data, I still think they are useful tools in the right contexts and I still oppose their general introduction for all. However by making participation in parsing a configurable option, my objection can be removed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Actually, now I have said that, there is one thing that SE could do and I wouldn't care at all about how they implement parsing. Make the parser an opt-in tool. In other words, add a setting to the character information that let's you opt into being parsed if you don't mind, but by default leaves you opted out of the parser. That way those who want to use a parser can, but the scope for abusing the in-game parser would be more or less eliminated.

---

Personal parsers would've been a great option at launch. Now people already have other options, so it's not like you can keep that information from other players if they want to know. That option simply doesn't exist, so whether or not it would be a good option is irrelevant.

All a personal parser would do at this point is continue to keep console players more restricted than pc.

I don't know why this bears repeating, but allowing parsers wouldn't make harassment okay. If people are griefing you with a parser, just report them like you would now.

#pcmasterrace

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malevicton

Personal parsers would've been a great option at launch. Now people already have other options, so it's not like you can keep that information from other players if they want to know. That option simply doesn't exist, so whether or not it would be a good option is irrelevant.

All a personal parser would do at this point is continue to keep console players more restricted than pc.

---

That's not what I mean. I mean add a full parser, but if a player has not chosen to allow their damage to be parsed by others, their numbers will simply be blank.

No more replies today, so I'm replying here

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malevicton

I know what you meant. What I mean is people would just continue to use 3rd party parsers since those would have more information. Hiding your damage is not an option. Whether it would be a good option doesn't matter.

---

SE's parser would have access to the full damage including accurate DoT, which 3rd party parsers don't have. By making participation in that parser optional, you make it so that players can change the option whenever they want or need to. For example when working with a group to practice something, you could enable the parsing for that time and disable it afterwards, it's your choice.

Adding a full parser with a participation option not only meets the needs of those who want to use an accurate parser in-game, but also grants the players their choice of whether or not to participate in parsing at any time. I don't see how you can reasonably be against that.

Of course players still have the option of using unsanctioned 3rd party tools, why would that change?

No more posts today thank yo very much forum limits...so another reply added here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archaell

I like your suggestion, but in my opinion it would cause more toxicity than simple parser.

If the parsing is optional, players will wonder why would you turn it off. The first thing that comes to mind is that you want to hide something. What do you want to hide? Low dps. So you do not plan to contribute enough then? And here we get seed for toxic confrontation no matter your reasoning behind turning it off.

---

Several posters have echoed this thought, and I'm answering your post since your is most concise.

What seems to me is being said is that either all players must be compellled to allow their data to be parsed, because some in the community will react toxically to players exercising their right to opt out. So, prejudging othes ans suspicion are arguments for having a parser free-for all?

If giving players control of whether they can be parsed or not is a compromise that parser proponents cannot accept, then doesn't this entire discussion amount to parser proponents saying give us what we want, there is no compromise? Malevicton has already clearly stated that whether or not SE implements a parser, 3rd party tools will continue to be used. Which kind of amounts to saying, if SE give players the choice to opt out, we'll just use 3rd party tools and get you that way.

So what is left to discuss? An opt-in parser is unacceptable, and if implemented would be circumvented - according to Malevicton. So, really the discussion is over, compromise wont work and parser proponents clearly won't quit, so in effect parser users are forcing the player base of the game to submit to their will. Did I miss anything there?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

That's not what I mean. I mean add a full parser, but if a player has not chosen to allow their damage to be parsed by others, their numbers will simply be blank.

---

I know what you meant. What I mean is people would just continue to use 3rd party parsers since those would have more information. Hiding your damage is not an option. Whether it would be a good option doesn't matter.

Edit @ your edit: If their parser tracks dots then they'll have added dots to the damage log. That's the only reason they aren't tracked by 3rd party parser. Unless they're planning to hold partial logs server side specifically to cripple 3rd party software then it wouldn't matter. Given that their servers can barely handle a light breeze, and it would only be to cripple other software without adding anything to the game, I doubt that'd be the solution. It'd be way easier to run the parser itself client side anyways, which means the log would need to be on the client. Technically it's possible, but they'd have to design a lot of new stuff specifically to spite 3rd party parsers at the cost of their precious server space. Given how insanely (almost literally insanely) easier it'd be to just implement a normal parser, I really doubt they'd do that. Besides, if someone's refusing to be parsed then I'll take simulated dots over literally nothing.

If they intentionally make their parser have less functionality than current parsers (which is what you're asking for), then people will continue to go 3rd party. And as you've said, they aren't going anywhere. So what's the point of making an intentionally gimped product with no intention of people using it? That's not a compromise, it's just a waste of resources.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

That's not what I mean. I mean add a full parser, but if a player has not chosen to allow their damage to be parsed by others, their numbers will simply be blank.

---

I like your suggestion, but in my opinion it would cause more toxicity than simple parser.

If the parsing is optional, players will wonder why would you turn it off. The first thing that comes to mind is that you want to hide something. What do you want to hide? Low dps. So you do not plan to contribute enough then? And here we get seed for toxic confrontation no matter your reasoning behind turning it off.

If I see a player refuse to be parsed, I'm going to assume they're the problem when DPS checks aren't being met.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

There is no contradiction, except that in your own head.

---

Have you read your own posts here? No really have you because I am reading them and you have contradicted your self, call me unreasonable but if you think I am being combative, stop being over sensitive then, it doesn't help your cause if thats all you have is hurting other peoples feelings, theres actually nothing wrong with people butting heads like this, trying to change the game or enforce a anti critical environment is whats killing this game and making people really go at each others throats more then any other mmo community seen to date.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archaell

I like your suggestion, but in my opinion it would cause more toxicity than simple parser.

If the parsing is optional, players will wonder why would you turn it off. The first thing that comes to mind is that you want to hide something. What do you want to hide? Low dps. So you do not plan to contribute enough then? And here we get seed for toxic confrontation no matter your reasoning behind turning it off.

---

This, the suggestion she made is just one of someone who hasn't even thought the whole thing through, whether or not you are playing well, those abusive players that she so fears, will automatically assume that you are hiding low numbers. It's a little comical when people suggest it.
It's even more funny after having her say this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I think you need to learn more about human nature.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Urthdigger

If I see a player refuse to be parsed, I'm going to assume they're the problem when DPS checks aren't being met.

---

As will everyone else, unless something is glaringly obvious with the numbers shown. Also, if there are four dps, and you know you need roughly 600dps each to pass the content, and three are showing 650, while the other is blank, well...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malevicton

Besides, it's not like harassment or griefing would suddenly not be reportable.

---

^This, it's like people think that SE adding a parser means they are sitting there saying "Alright trolls! The game is now yours! Make the world burn!"

I'm not against parser. It's hard to improve yourselves if you don't know what you're doing wrong. That's why we always have exams, to see if we're ready to be graduated and work with the others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Urthdigger

If I see a player refuse to be parsed, I'm going to assume they're the problem when DPS checks aren't being met.

---

http://www.ew.com/sites/default/file...?itok=zg2v5lq4
Because we all like to do it right?

I don't care for parsers but everyone is addicted to numbers in this game it seems even for content that would never require a parser to see who is being lazy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

http://www.ew.com/sites/default/file...?itok=zg2v5lq4
Because we all like to do it right?

I don't care for parsers but everyone is addicted to numbers in this game it seems even for content that would never require a parser to see who is being lazy.

---

Process of eliminatin now equals The Jump to Conclusions Mat...


Addicted to numbers? Well the game is fairly reliant on numbers, you might even say its built on it, lets go ahead and think on some things in the game that involve numbers.
-HP/MP/TP, those are all numbers
-Our actions all have MP/TP value associated with them as well as a cool down time, all numbers.
-Each action has a potency/modifier associated with it's effect. Numbers again.
-Certian actions have combos that chage the potency of another action. Numbers.
-Our character page is full of numbers that effect all of the above examples. You guessed it, numbers.
-Each piece of gear we have, has numbers that change its quality. More numbers!
-There is a whole overly complicated glamour system built around being able to equip gear with desirable numbers while retaining the look you like.
-The crafting method? Numbers.
-Each and every encounter is built around reducing the HP of the boss to the point where they give up/die, without letting the HP of the full party drop to zero. Numbers.
-Enrage timers, you must do X damage, within X amount of time, or target does X damage that equals a greater number than anyone in the parties HP number, or mulitple attacks that are greater than a healers stats allow them to keep up with.
-Bosses ultimate attacks. You must meet X criteria or the bosses attacks recieve X multiplier.

Really you could go on all day with that. So, does realizing the fact that the game is built on numbers, and asking for a tool to work with those numbers mean people are number addicted?

In the end, the game is really a bunch of math with a story skinned over it in a social setting. Of course when you play it, it is so much more, or the combination of these things makes it so much more. Amazing how many emotions that can bring out when you log on right?

I would counter with there seems to be a disproportinate amount of people around with a severe fear of numbers.

The last part of your post made me smile a little as even the person you quoted stated "when dps checks aren't being met."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilraen

And the people pushing parsers as the be-all-end-all of self improvement assumes anyone worth calling themselves a gamer must also love doing work and attending competitions. I'm fairly competent, I hate my job and the last time I was in any kind of competition it was a spelling bee in elementary. I'm not competitive in the slightest so peer pressure doesn't mean a thing to me. I'm much too old for that kind of 'game'.

---

All kinds of assuming and putting words into others mouths. I never said everyone likes competing. Girls in general are less prone to competition than men are. Nature nurture? Not the point. Which explains an objective game where people compete either against the game or others is largely male based.

You completely went off on a random tangent. I was talking about pressure and how it doesn't always mean your not having fun.

Wow, I'm honestly shocked at the negativity about giving players control of an option to allow parsing of their data or not. I find it incredibly ironic that the reason given for being opposed to that idea is that if implemented it would lead to people being toxic and assuming that others are hiding their data because they are crap. So, including an opt in/out to preserve the choice for players who are concerned about parser abuse becomes a force majeure producing even more toxicity?

Here is an open question to advocates of a parser; several commenters have asked in slightly different ways whether it's fair for players to be forced, or compelled to carry others through content. Clearly it's not OK or fair to force or compel others to do things. So, the question is why is it OK to force or compel all players to have their data parsed and open to your inspection?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Wow, I'm honestly shocked

---

I find it amazing that you consider it negative feedback. Your the only thing the option you presented (once again it has been presented and discussed at lenght in almost every parser thread.), is give that portion of the population whom you are so afraid of abusing other people something to fixate on. Your inability to see that is a little eybrow raising. The friendly attitude the responses you recieved likely have more to do with your attitude from the get go in this thread rather than any actual hatred of the idea posed.

That you find it ironic is interesting as well. Not a single person has denied that there are abusive people in the game, or that tools in game can be abused by them. So I don't really see your point here. Of cousre it would be ok to allow people to hide it, it doesn't bother me, but your failure and inabilty to see what the result of it would be is, well, wow. I mean what are the positives and negatives. It only has any real effect if everyone in the party chooses not to show it.

Honestly, four people in a party, three show theirs, their numbers are all more than required, yet the check still fails, very basic math shows you where the numbers are lacking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

So, the question is why is it OK to force or compel all players to have their data parsed and open to your inspection?

---

The answer is simple - for good of the community. Parser is something like a security camera in a store. It doesn't matter if there is somebody watching you at the other end or not, just the simple presence of it discourages people from doing something wrong. Of course there are some who don't care. Some who do not think that getting carried is wrong... There are also people who do not mind to carry others. But some people like to have sense of justice, and so they deserve the option to know, who is supporting the team and who is just enjoying the ride. Then they have the option to either ignore it or fix the problem (either by providing tips for improvement, or by swift kick).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archaell

The answer is simple - for good of the community.

---

See , I would disagree here. It should not be viewed as a security camera. Though, in a minor portion of the population, it would have this effect. The security camera is more the knowledge that you can be reported for violations and that the GMs can pull up the chat logs.

It is first and foremost a tool for viewing the effectiveness of your gameplay/rotations. A tool for diagnosing issues, and also a method of figuring out the effectiveness of different gear/stat options.

But everyone views things differently, obviously some here only see a cursed bat with a big spike though it that has the side effect of making you spew obsenities at anyone who isn't world first status.

I'm not a fan of the idea but as long as duty finder is off limits I don't really care. PF / static groups might need or could use it to overcome harder contet but other than that?

Leveling roulette etc. are not in the need for a damge meter/parsr atlast not that I'm aware of. (I might be wrong here if so my apologies)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

snip

---

Could you please list one legitimate reason as to why someone would hide their data after a wipe caused by a DPS check? I can't think of any, other than performing poorly. But hey, I'm waiting for your answer. Why is it okay to make people wipe over and over again because you can't meet a DPS check, and you're too hesitant to show your parse?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archaell

The answer is simple - for good of the community.

---

I'm honestly spent. People going on about 'bad players' in their precious content, 'bad players' wanting to 'keep their heads in the sand', 'bad players' needing to 'up their games' cause this isn't 'just a game'. What would be good for the community... is for everyone, and I mean everyone, to stop being jerks. I'm not saying I haven't been, I freely admit that I've been fairly brusque on the topic, but some of the posts I've seen make me look tame in comparison. I think it was best said... by the lalafell in my signature, so I'll take my leave with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

http://www.ew.com/sites/default/file...?itok=zg2v5lq4
Because we all like to do it right?

I don't care for parsers but everyone is addicted to numbers in this game it seems even for content that would never require a parser to see who is being lazy.

---

Riiiight. Because caring about who is likely at fault when we've wiped yet AGAIN to a primal's big attack is being addicted to numbers, and you're TOTALLY not jumping to conclusions yourself.

I'm glad you all responded in that manner because I see it as simple as this. In real life an innocent person has nothing to hide, correct? But, we don't expect the authorities to be allowed to just listen in on our phone calls, look at our emails, and watch our every move through hidden cameras without a court order and/or our consent. Do we?

It doesn't matter whether someone has anything to hide or not, there should never be the presumption that because they don't wish to undergo inspection they are guilty of something. I view this issue the same way. I have nothing to hide, but I don't wish for my numbers to be parsed because, among other reasons, I don't want to be given unsolicited advice by someone about improving my performance. Quite apart from anything else the corollary of offering someone advice to improve is saying that their performance is poor.

But it doesn't matter, if I don't want to participate in parsing, I should not be forced to do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

Could you please list one legitimate reason as to why someone would hide their data after a wipe caused by a DPS check? I can't think of any, other than performing poorly. But hey, I'm waiting for your answer. Why is it okay to make people wipe over and over again because you can't meet a DPS check, and you're too hesitant to show your parse?

---

Because they probably have a disability (sarcasm) as 99% of the ffxiv population with bad dps seems to have according to the naysayers.

The facts speak, most players arent disabled so I cant think of any other reason that anyone would be underperforming other than not wanting to.
For some reason though no one wants to admit that plain and simply they want to be lazy, which is ok you play how you want but when you're playing with me that better stop and I'm sure other players can agree with that. Yes this is a FF title but no it is NOT a single player game. Carry your weight *IF* you have the physical/mental capacity to do so please

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whiteroom

...

---

Well let's make distinction between individual parser and group parser. The individual one is tool for improvement, yes. The group parser gets many more additional qualities and uses. Whenever another team member can watch your performance it becomes more of the security camera, imo.

Folks here who are opposed to parsers fear too much that majority of users is going to require "the world first status". I wonder if they really bealive that most of the playerbase is really that evil to blame you when you do 10 dps less than somebody else. Not to mention that if it is said in offensive manner it can be punished by GMs.

If parsing were introduced chances are it would be personal so "not participating" would be a non issue. Well except for the thousands of people already parsing you with thrid party apps. Either way it simply wouldn't matter. .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm glad you all responded in that manner because I see it as simple as this. In real life an innocent person has nothing to hide, correct? But, we don't expect the authorities to be allowed to just listen in on our phone calls, look at our emails, and watch our every move through hidden cameras without a court order and/or our consent. Do we?

It doesn't matter whether someone has anything to hide or not, there should never be the presumption that because they don't wish to undergo inspection they are guilty of something. I view this issue the same way. I have nothing to hide, but I don't wish for my numbers to be parsed because, among other reasons, I don't want to be given unsolicited advice by someone about improving my performance. Quite apart from anything else the corollary of offering someone advice to improve is saying that their performance is poor.

But it doesn't matter, if I don't want to participate in parsing, I should not be forced to do so.

---

This isnt a court of law though, it's a player set community if the standard comes to be to kick combative players who refuse to show their numbers due to some sort of entitlement issue and an underlying fear of being exposed for laziness, then so be it. I just hope those same combative entitled players dont complain when it happens

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm glad you all responded in that manner...

---

Is this some kind of a "checkmate!" comment?
I distictly recall people saying things like "in the event of a failed dps check", what about numbers is difficult to understand? If a group of four people are sent out to get a total of 20 apples, but are allowed to hide how many they bring back, three come back showing that they brought six each, but only 19 get brought back in total. I don't know about you, but I don't need to see the forth persons basket to know they brought 1 back.
If 24 come back noone is annoyed with anyone are they.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

But it doesn't matter, if I don't want to participate in parsing, I should not be forced to do so.

---

So let's say that parsing would be optional. How would you feel about the other players booting you out of the group for hiding your data? You are the one who decided to not participate. They would note that you do not want to participate.

Personally I see parser as an order for 100 cakes. There are four workers so every single one should make 25 cakes. Of course some get the job done faster so it can be 20-30-25-25 cakes per person. It isn't entirely fair, but it is acceptable. What isn't acceptable tho is when somebody decides to bake only 10 cakes. In that cases the other bakers deserve to know what was the reason that they had to bake more than just 25.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilraen

I'm honestly spent. People going on about 'bad players' in their precious content, 'bad players' wanting to 'keep their heads in the sand', 'bad players' needing to 'up their games' cause this isn't 'just a game'. What would be good for the community... is for everyone, and I mean everyone, to stop being jerks. I'm not saying I haven't been, I freely admit that I've been fairly brusque on the topic, but some of the posts I've seen make me look tame in comparison. I think it was best said... by the lalafell in my signature, so I'll take my leave with that.

---

Doesn't your sig go both ways though?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dank1

snip

---

This may sound rude, but frankly if you're disabled and unable participate to the expected standard of the content you're doing, at least the bare minimum required, you should not be doing that content. Farm some gil and pay for a run or the like, but do not expect other people to carry you because of your disability. If a friend of mine had a disability, I'd be more than happy to try to set up a party with a few FC members together and carry them through the content if need be, if it's a stranger who comes in and expects a clear like they deserve to get carried by strangers who have no ties, you're going to get kicked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

snip

---

There is a huge, huge difference between revealing your personal information or having people go through your belongings and a number. I'm honestly surprised you've come up with that, it's a rather poor comparison whereas your other posts were a tad more reasonable. If you don't want to be given advice on how to improve, then either a, start your own party with a no parse rule, or b, stop joining parties where you can't perform to the standards required.