Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Actually that's the thing, this whole issue with sands and The Hunt affects the balance of the game which in turn affects everyone therefore your comparison is null and void.

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This isn't a PvP based game, the gear in question isn't PvP based, nor does it magically make non-raiders do 9999 damage.
People who quit your statics/DF to hunt vs raiding aren't people you hardcore raiders want in your party to begin with since raids requires more dedication than hunting.
Non-raiders aren't going to become hardcore static group raiders because they have il110 gear now, but some will try to raid increasing the community.
I don't see how it's magically going to break the balance of a mainly PvE game where the best looking/in slot gear is still dropped in a raid.
I won't deny that hunts are poorly implemented but the idea behind it is still valid. Just the idea of "breaking balance" is, no offense, laughable.

I personally feel they should have waited until 2.35 to release oil/sand from hunts. That still would have given people 1.5 months to hunt to their heart's desire for all their 110 gear, and would have allowed people to enjoy hunts first for the pleasure of "hunting" without giving it a permanently nasty taste in the mouth that all the shit slinging and animosity created due to the ensuing panic of "OMFG I NEED TO BE i110 RIGHT NAO". It also had rather negative effects on PF and people's motivation to want to do Ramuh EX.. because now everyone is like "wtf is the point when it drops i100 shit when I can spend less effort and be full i110".

Having said that, I do have friends in my FC who will benefit from a little bit of extra gear in making the learning of t6-9 a little less intense on healers/tanks.

TLDR: Not at all opposed to oils/sands being made easy to obtain.. just feel the implementation into hunts was rather premature. ST at least has the lock out so you have to choose between a i100 piece for a slot that may still be i90 or below, or a chance to increase an existing piece to i110.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Then let's say the that the iLvL of the gear then will be i120 for soldiery and i130 for upgraded/raid gear. It then create a glut in the item level where mobs now need to be balanced to the increase in high level. Seeing as how people are strugglign with current content, do you think that's a good idea ?

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You mean like they already did? Unless you forgot, the max ilvl of gear for patch 2.0-2.1 was 90 (sans weapons). In 2.2, the new tomestone gear was released and was 10 levels about that, with an upgrade 10 levels above also. So this hypothetical situation you're afraid of has already occurred and has not destroyed the game, so what is your argument exactly?

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Originally Posted by Tsun-Tsun

Non-raiders aren't going to become hardcore static group raiders because they have il110 gear now, but some will try to raid increasing the community.

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Furthermore, in a game where all raiding is instanced competition for targets is a non-issue.

The crux of the matter is simply the raiding crowd are feeling upset their snowflake status is diminished.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

A figure which is not needed outside of t9. Thus obtaining said BiS means you miss out on a lot of additional, more beneficial stats due to stacking excessive accuracy. Also the difference in BiS 110 and non Bis 110 is minimal at best.

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BiS is not about accuracy, but about desired stats in general. It may or may not include accuracy. For bards for example BiS is stacking crit/det over skillspeed and going with "just soldiery" gives you excessive 150 skillspeed over BiS setup, which not only drops your damage, but also leads to insane TP consumption.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

Furthermore, in a game where all raiding is instanced competition for targets is a non-issue.

The crux of the matter is simply the raiding crowd are feeling upset their snowflake status is diminished.

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Sure, some people may feel that way. The REAL issue is that they are so easy to obtain. Nobody should be able to get 7 sands in less than a week. NOBODY, not raiders not casuals, not anyone. It's top ilvl gear.

There should have been a weekly lockout on them 1 per week (1 oil and 1 sand respectively)

When you see hunting people obtaining sands and oils faster than the end game content can provide, you know there was a mistake. Too late to fix it now though, the damage is done already.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

You really need to come up with some new material.

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Because you've done such a good job at proving your points so far using fallacies which gives your arguement so much weight!

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

Furthermore, in a game where all raiding is instanced competition for targets is a non-issue.

The crux of the matter is simply the raiding crowd are feeling upset their snowflake status is diminished.

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You really should read the thread at some point instead of going with your preconceived opinion.

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Originally Posted by Tsun-Tsun

This isn't a PvP based game, the gear in question isn't PvP based, nor does it magically make non-raiders do 9999 damage.
People who quit your statics/DF to hunt vs raiding aren't people you hardcore raiders want in your party to begin with since raids requires more dedication than hunting.
Non-raiders aren't going to become hardcore static group raiders because they have il110 gear now, but some will try to raid increasing the community.
I don't see how it's magically going to break the balance of a mainly PvE game where the best looking/in slot gear is still dropped in a raid.
I won't deny that hunts are poorly implemented but the idea behind it is still valid. Just the idea of "breaking balance" is, no offense, laughable.

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Do you know what I find laughable ? The fact that you think that the balance in a game is just PvP or damage. I've given an explanation in my previous post on how this affects PvE content as a whole.

And no offense meant but as someone who has already gotten 3 sands in less than a week and a half since this has been released, your opinion and stance on the whole topic since seems really biased as you stand to lose your free gear source by abusing a broken system.

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Originally Posted by Kiokin

You mean like they already did? Unless you forgot, the max ilvl of gear for patch 2.0-2.1 was 90 (sans weapons). In 2.2, the new tomestone gear was released and was 10 levels about that, with an upgrade 10 levels above also. So this hypothetical situation you're afraid of has already occurred and has not destroyed the game, so what is your argument exactly?

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Did you actually read the whole thing ?

Here it is explained, in simpler terms:

2.0 = i90 tome gear
2.2 = i100 tome gear
2.4= (hypothetical) i110 gear

Now, if everyone has i110 by then, tome gear will be useless on release, therefore requiring an upgraded ilvl of 20 instead of 10 on the tome gear. This has never happened before.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Because you've done such a good job at proving your points so far using fallacies which gives your arguement so much weight!

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Oh, I see your misunderstanding. My initial response was simply to mock your stance not to give credibility to your opinion. Many other people in this thread have argued my viewpoint perfectly well already. The fact you choose to discount their views is beside the point, I have no expectation or desire to "win you over" your continued angsty responses are just enjoyable to read for now.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

Oh, I see your misunderstanding. My initial response was simply to mock your stance not to give credibility to your opinion. Many other people in this thread have argued my viewpoint perfectly well already. The fact you choose to discount their views is beside the point, I have no expectation or desire to "win you over" your continued angsty responses are just enjoyable to read for now.

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Since many have argued your viewpoint, maybe you'd like to like to at least link to 1 post that made any form of logical argument. Not 2 or 3 or 4, just 1. So far from everything you've posted in this thread, you've just ignored every point that came through that made sure to explain well and clear on how this wasn't just about raiding yet decided to just skip over all of those to come back to your preconceived idea that this thread was all about the evil raiders. Quite the hypocritical stance, really.

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Originally Posted by SinisterJoint

Sure, some people may feel that way. The REAL issue is that they are so easy to obtain. Nobody should be able to get 7 sands in less than a week. NOBODY, not raiders not casuals, not anyone. It's top ilvl gear.

There should have been a weekly lockout on them 1 per week (1 oil and 1 sand respectively)

When you see hunting people obtaining sands and oils faster than the end game content can provide, you know there was a mistake. Too late to fix it now though, the damage is done already.

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Agreed on the hwole thngs except that since this hasn't been two weeks yet, I still think the damage can be minimize by actually putting a restiction comes next maintenance.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

2.0 = i90 tome gear
2.2 = i100 tome gear
2.4= (hypothetical) i110 gear

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Are you being serious?
Philo tome gear = i70
Myth tome gear = i90
Soldiery tome gear = i100 upgradable to i110
Whatever tome gear is going to be i120 upgradable to i130 following 2.2 pattern as it's likely next coil will be i130/i135.

One major reason why we got the upgrade path for tome gear in 2.2 is that raiders was pissing so much about tome gear being same level as coil gear.
Actually, it's possible that the max ilevel in 2.4 will be even higher to provide more upgrade steps.
The max ilevel steps have been 20, why do you think the next tome gear will be i110 when the current was meant to be upgraded to i110?

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Originally Posted by Dwill

this wasn't just about raiding yet decided to just skip over all of those to come back to your preconceived idea that this thread was all about the evil raiders. Quite the hypocritical stance, really.

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The term raider in this game is more a catch-all for someone who lives on the game so you could equally use "hardcore" or "no-lifer" as a tag although I appreciate that is a slight over-generalisation because there are people who raid and do so on a restricted timeframe but let's not delude ourselves, most hardcores spend every available waking hour on this game. For them to then suddenly have the one defining aspect of their lives trivialised by "filthy entitled casuals" is the continually burning core of this whole thread.

The sad fact is, ever since Blizzard opened up MMOs to the globe the clock started ticking down on the genre's demise. The current state of this game only evidences that fact. Which is why, all poking fun aside, I struggle to get as bent out of shape by these games now as I once did when I can see the direction they're all heading inexorably toward.

Someone's new.

This is no different than 2.0-2.1

There were two ways to get i90 gear: coil and mythology. People still ran coil because not all myth gear was best in slot. And the same goes for solidery. Upgrading most solidery pieces is a waste of a sand because it's not your bis.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Someone's new.

This is no different than 2.0-2.1

There were two ways to get i90 gear: coil and mythology. People still ran coil because not all myth gear was best in slot. And the same goes for solidery. Upgrading most solidery pieces is a waste of a sand because it's not your bis.

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I guess you're the new one.　People ran Coil because they liked raiding, while others didn't run at all because they could beat turns and i90 mythology gear was "good enough".

Also, I've said many times, BiS means nothing to people who don't raid.

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Originally Posted by SinisterJoint

When you see hunting people obtaining sands and oils faster than the end game content can provide, you know there was a mistake. Too late to fix it now though, the damage is done already.

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We are at point where people that can't pass T6 in ilvl100 should get an access to further buffs. And it really not needed to limit it to weekly lockouts, masses just don't have enough dedication to get a lot of sands in short time, and those who do usually already in a league that have access to 110 gear and they do hunts just for catch-up/gearing offspecs.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

2.0 = i90 tome gear
2.2 = i100 tome gear
2.4= (hypothetical) i110 gear

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No way, next tome gear will be 120/130 (maybe 115/120), as it should be upgrade from HA stuff, not weathered stuff.
The structure of gear is that you upgrade your items to boost your performance in next coil (these shiny 110 items almost make no difference outside coil anyway). If next tier of token items is the same as HA - this will broke the whole idea that coil parties slowly buffed via token items until they can pass.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

One major reason why we got the upgrade path for tome gear in 2.2 is that raiders was pissing so much about tome gear being same level as coil gear.

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It was to slow down the progression and push "pass through overgear" phase into the future. It's no longer needed to limit ability to pass Coil through overgear as soon there will be ilvl shift and current content are made intentinally more accessible through giving away an ability to boost performance.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I guess you're the new one.　People ran Coil because they liked raiding, while others didn't run at all because they could beat turns and i90 mythology gear was "good enough".

Also, I've said many times, BiS means nothing to people who don't raid.

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Few people raid because they like raiding, they raid for gear. Same reason why most aren't bothering with savage coil because there's no gear incentive for them.

And no, bis doesn't mean nothing to non raiders. Most people want the best gear available, raider or not.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Are you being serious?
Philo tome gear = i70
Myth tome gear = i90
Soldiery tome gear = i100 upgradable to i110
Whatever tome gear is going to be i120 upgradable to i130 following 2.2 pattern as it's likely next coil will be i130/i135.

One major reason why we got the upgrade path for tome gear in 2.2 is that raiders was pissing so much about tome gear being same level as coil gear.
Actually, it's possible that the max ilevel in 2.4 will be even higher to provide more upgrade steps.
The max ilevel steps have been 20, why do you think the next tome gear will be i110 when the current was meant to be upgraded to i110?

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I stand corrected on the iLvL point as I had totally forgotten about Philosophy gear.

You can't argue though that this created a spike in increased difficulty that even right now, plenty of people are still struggling with (T5 and Titan Ex being the two prime exemples) that they can't overcome without drastic nerf to the actual encounters themselves, then they will proceed to SCoB, reach T9 which is just going to be a birck wall like Twintania for multiple people yet again requiring more nerfs.

This pattern destroys the depth of gameplay of the high end content from this game because people absolutely want the best gear, so Square Enix has to design content balanced towards said iLvL just to have to nerf it because people are ramming it to no avail.

Which comes back to the original point that this is bad for the balance of the game.

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Originally Posted by Felessan

It was to slow down the progression and push "pass through overgear" phase into the future. It's no longer needed to limit ability to pass Coil through overgear as soon there will be ilvl shift and current content are made intentinally more accessible through giving away an ability to boost performance.

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Yet Yoshida himself admitted that the progression didn't slow down and people still progressed at faster pace than they had anticipated, which shows that they will need to create even harder content to actually slow down the progress via this method creating a tremendous wall for people without the capacity to down a raid boss without max echo, max iLvL possible and encounter nerfs.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Few people raid because they like raiding, they raid for gear. Same reason why most aren't bothering with savage coil because there's no gear incentive for them.

And no, bis doesn't mean nothing to non raiders. Most people want the best gear available, raider or not.

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But the best gear is not meant for everyone. People are not entitled to get it because they can't commit to a static.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Few people raid because they like raiding, they raid for gear. Same reason why most aren't bothering with savage coil because there's no gear incentive for them.

And no, bis doesn't mean nothing to non raiders. Most people want the best gear available, raider or not.

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The best available gear is i110. You can get all but 1 piece now.

Put a cap on allied seals (1 gear-enhancing item per week) -> problem mostly solved

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Originally Posted by Exstal

The best available gear is i110. You can get all but 1 piece now.

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No. i110 doesn't mean best. Because secondary stats matter. If you want the best, you need to mix and match.

Most solidery pieces are kinda crappy with how much skill speed they have. You're crazy if you think a i110 with a ton of skill speed compares to a i110 with determination instead.

I'd think you're crazy to believe it matters in any other place aside from Second Coil (and Savage alike).

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

No. i110 doesn't mean best. Because secondary stats matter. If you want the best, you need to mix and match.

Most solidery pieces are kinda crappy with how much skill speed they have. You're crazy if you think a i110 with a ton of skill speed compares to a i110 with determination instead.

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The difference will be in really %. For exemple since you are a bard, 5 determination barely adds 1 DPS and and 5 skill speed adds around 0.25 at best. With the capacity to average around 380 DPS for a nearly decked out Bard, you're talking of a difference of two tenth of a percent between both.

Best gear is meant for the hardest encounter and ouside of this, it matters very little as anyone half competent with their character can clear all the outside of coils content in dungeons and myth gear.

So as it was mentioned:

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I'd think you're crazy to believe it matters in any other place aside from Second Coil (and Savage alike).

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Originally Posted by Elyana_Starfall

Put a cap on allied seals (1 gear-enhancing item per week) -> problem mostly solved

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The cap is already here, this cap is called "450 soldiery tomes per week".

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Yet Yoshida himself admitted that the progression didn't slow down and people still progressed at faster pace than they had anticipated, which shows that they will need to create even harder content to actually slow down the progress via this method creating a tremendous wall for people without the capacity to down a raid boss without max echo, max iLvL possible and encounter nerfs.

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IIRC He admitted that top notch raiders downed content faster than they expected. BUT. The next wave of raider already within their expectation for speed of progression.
Its the most hardcore guys like BG etc that exceed expectation (and there some stuff for them like Savage mode), most of raiding crowd are still in place and progress through content as expected. And as time goes on, more people should be involved in raids.
It was adjusted compared to 2.0-2.1 where we saw PUG for Twintania at the end of 2.1 (i doubt we will see something like for for T9), but it was stated many times that for ff14 team it's desired path when more people get involved with content over time. To do this content should be easied and one way to do it - improve gear of people.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

No. i110 doesn't mean best. Because secondary stats matter. If you want the best, you need to mix and match.

Most solidery pieces are kinda crappy with how much skill speed they have. You're crazy if you think a i110 with a ton of skill speed compares to a i110 with determination instead.

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And if you think the difference is major, then you are wrong. BiS is not needed for any content. turn 9 can be cleared in non BiS gear as long as you have the accuracy. You are giving way too much importance to Best in Slot as the difference is minimal due to how little secondary stats affect performance.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I'd think you're crazy to believe it matters in any other place aside from Second Coil (and Savage alike).

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It's not that needed in coil either. Good thing as only had 1 MNK drop and 1 melee acc :S The MNK drop that actually appeared is not BiS, the belt.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon1

The cap is already here, this cap is called "450 soldiery tomes per week".

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That would hold some weights if soldiery gear would have been released in 2.3. As it stands right now, plenty of people are rocking full soldiery, some on more than one jobs.

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Originally Posted by Felessan

IIRC He admitted that top notch raiders downed content faster than they expected. BUT. The next wave of raider already within their expectation for speed of progression.
Its the most hardcore guys like BG etc that exceed expectation (and there some stuff for them like Savage mode), most of raiding crowd are still in place and progress through content as expected. And as time goes on, more people should be involved in raids.
It was adjusted compared to 2.0-2.1 where we saw PUG for Twintania at the end of 2.1 (i doubt we will see something like for for T9), but it was stated many times that for ff14 team it's desired path when more people get involved with content over time. To do this content should be easied and one way to do it - improve gear of people.

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From what I remember (a.k.a I could be wrong), he didn't say anything about the second weave of people clearing it and he just mentioned that they wouldn't increase the difficulty for now as to not let people behind. He also stated that he wasn't sure people would ever clear Savage but with people already having cleared Savage T7 a week and a half in the patch and with SCoB requiring 3 weeks to clear, I could easily see them make a switch on that stance seeing that Savage could be beaten in the same amount of time as normal unless T9 Savage is something ridiculously hard.

And let's be honest, the reason most people clear the encounters they have difficulty with is mostly due to the Echo giving such stupidly high bonuses.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

From what I remember (a.k.a I could be wrong), he didn't say anything about the second weave of people clearing it and he just mentioned that they wouldn't increase the difficulty for now as to not let people behind.

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Seems different interview. I saw one when YoshiP said that they were surpised how fast SCoB got downed and they expected it to last longer. But than they look how broader population progress and it was within their expectation range.
There are actually a lot of ppl that are actively raiding but still not downed T9, in our FC only 1 static did it (and quite some time ago) and at least 3 other still trying it on various phases.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

And let's be honest, the reason most people clear the encounters they have difficulty with is mostly due to the Echo giving such stupidly high bonuses.

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Echo is the same as gear upgrade - just plain improvements of your stats. 10 levels of ilvl upgrade is about the same as 15% echo buff. Echo buff was just given to further decrease difficulty of certain encounters without having impact on the new content.
Tell the truth T6, T8-T9 are scales nicely with gear, becoming easier and easier, especially if you go through certain thresholds. Same was with Coil1 where overgear (and later echo) allowed to use simpler mechanics. Twintania with ilvl110 and 20%echo is really a joke, there are just no places where hp/healing/dps could lack even if the players are "not best" of the crowd. Just know what to do on divebombs and twisters - and you are safe.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

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Try replying with less 1 liners and use some actual counter arguments. Discussions can't happen when you "herp derp nope, invalid."
I try to raid at least a few times a week, but I'm home at 11pm HST, and 85% of NA is offline, and I queue for 2 hrs just to be forced to abandon cause someone doesn't like that we wiped 1 time. BTW want more people to raid? Stop that. So take a stab at me for gaining a few sands, it's how I know the execution of the hunts is poor. The idea of giving another options for sands/oils is good none the less.
I'm fine with working towards a sands/# weeks. That's not the issue ITT, the thread is who will raid now that sands are available elsewhere. I explain that hunts aren't going to kill raids, in the long run it will probably increase the number of raiders. People get confidence boost from better gear, confidence to try raids. I don't understand why you can't understand that gearing people to your ilvl is only beneficial to RAIDS.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

snip

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Let me also say its a week into the patch, SCoB is 3 months old. OF COURSE THE SHORT TERM IS GOING TO BE A DROP IN QUEUES. As a end game mmo player, I've never said "oh new sh*t came out? Nah let me run the older stuff that I can't even get into."

PS: I took a look at your "argument" about how it's going to break balance. End game mobs don't exist in the open world, so that's already broken. For dungeons, the difficulty of older dungeons will always go down as the mmo gets older. It's how game progression works, that's why new dungeons are released. Also unless you're on the dev team don't say "they're going to get il120 gear next before 2.4 if they keep b*tching about it." You know what devs do when its not reasonable? They just have say no, like they have to so many other wants.
If you can't manage more than "no you're wrong" with no argument please don't bother to respond.

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Originally Posted by Tsun-Tsun

If you can't manage more than "no you're wrong" with no argument please don't bother to respond.

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I think you'll find that's all he's capable of.

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Originally Posted by Tsun-Tsun

I explain that hunts aren't going to kill raids, in the long run it will probably increase the number of raiders.

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Bad habits die hard.　Those who didn't raid when it came out, likely won't to do it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

That would hold some weights if soldiery gear would have been released in 2.3. As it stands right now, plenty of people are rocking full soldiery, some on more than one jobs.

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It's pretty much impossible to fully deck out two different jobs in full soldiery as there haven't been enough weeks since 2.2 to actually buy all pieces for two.
Find me someone that have two jobs fully decked out in different soldiery tome gear. Zero overlap.

Unless I calculated wrong, it has so far been possible to obtain 8550 soldiery tomestones.
Fully decking out one job takes 5010 tomestones if you can only get one ring, and this is not counting weapon.
Fully decking out two jobs with no overlap in gear would take a minimum of 10020 tomestones, or 4 more weeks of capping soldiery.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

It's pretty much impossible to fully deck out two different jobs in full soldiery as there haven't been enough weeks since 2.2 to actually buy all pieces for two.
Find me someone that have two jobs fully decked out in different soldiery tome gear. Zero overlap.

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12 weeks of Soldiery is 5400 soldiery. A full set, sans weapon, is 4,635 soldiery. We're at week 14 now?

Granted, I doubt many people stockpiled Soldiery for Tomestone so, 1 full set and then pieces thrown onto other classes (like I have done).

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Originally Posted by Exstal

12 weeks of Soldiery is 5400 soldiery. A full set, sans weapon, is 4,635 soldiery. We're at week 14 now?

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495+825+495+375+825+495 for left side, 375x4 for right side... 5010 to fully deck out.
Even if it was as low as you say, that's still far from fully decked out two jobs without overlap.

I wouldn't believe fully decked on two jobs myself. I've seen many, many times when doing roulette people who are full soldiery except weapon and 1 ring (because no i100 aside from Ramuh and Coil). It makes me wonder people who are saying that it isn't common are even playing the same game I am.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Bad habits die hard.　Those who didn't raid when it came out, likely won't to do it anyway.

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They will do, especially when lockout for Coil will be removed. It was the same with Coil1 when a lot of ppl flocked in first after simple tactics for T1-T2 was invented and then, a lot more, when lockout was removed.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

12 weeks of Soldiery is 5400 soldiery. A full set, sans weapon, is 4,635 soldiery. We're at week 14 now?
Granted, I doubt many people stockpiled Soldiery for Tomestone so, 1 full set and then pieces thrown onto other classes (like I have done).

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1 full set (assuming 2 rings - 5040 soldiery) for whole 2.3, and you still need 3 more weeks to get a weapon. And a weapon for many is first priority where to spend sand.

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Originally Posted by Felessan

They will do, especially when lockout for Coil will be removed. It was the same with Coil1 when a lot of ppl flocked in first after simple tactics for T1-T2 was invented and then, a lot more, when lockout was removed.

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This kind of thinking leads to the conclusion that, "why get gear now when it'll be heavily nerfed later and that gear is much less important?".

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1 full set (assuming 2 rings - 5040 soldiery) for whole 2.3, and you still need 3 more weeks to get a weapon. And a weapon for many is first priority where to spend sand.

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You can't get two rings.

Chest / Pants = 825 * 2 = 1650
Gloves / Hat / Boots = 495 * 3 = 1485
Belt / Ring / Ear / Bracelet / Neck = 375 * 5 = 1875

Total: 5,010

450 soldiery a week * 12 weeks = 5,400

So +/- 900 still puts you at 1 full set for sure and close to a weapon.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

You can't get two rings.

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You can get two rings, if one is upgraded with Oil.

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Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

As much as I care about raiding too, I think this game is set on shooting itself in the foot when it comes to developing a great end game for high end gamers. I am sure I am not the only one to notice that less and less people are doing dungeon guides and streams of FF14.

The game will be fine, sure; however, you can see that the high end players who make content, such as youtube videos about dungeons, are starting to flee. Who can blame them really. This game offers little to the high end raider.

I totally see this game only having CT and ST styled raids two years out where the best gear in the game comes from a 30 min mindless dungeon styled raid.

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You, my friend, must not be familiar with Savage Coil. The fact that they are using it as a pilot to create even harder content, is quite scary.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

You can get two rings, if one is upgraded with Oil.

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You couldn't obtain Oils prior to last week if you didn't raid, which is why they had full Soldiery.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dwill

I quote people and then claim they don't bother to read the discussion and offer a semi witty response to their quote.

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Your viewpoint has been argued and found to be untrue, please try to follow the thread and such.