I wish Gunbreaker would be a DPS class.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

Especially when a lot of the DRK storyline is about NOT being an edgelord.

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Let's be real, most of the 50-60 story felt like a Disney movie. There were dancing Moogles and everything.

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Originally Posted by Hakuro89

Let's be real, most of the 50-60 story felt like a Disney movie. There were dancing Moogles and everything.

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Mhmm, and the resolution to the 30-50 was proving that you weren't going to be a broody edgelord.

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Originally Posted by Dralonis

class changes down to a core would change that. Playing the shiny new class isn't always the answer for having fun in a game.

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Same could be said for DPS, you don't need new jobs, just massive core changes to existing jobs. Oh hi there MCH.

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The main issue that I have with tanks currently though and why people probably play them less is they are fundamentally flawed currently <snip>. Also because it's not as fun to them. Make tanks more fun.

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What fundamental flaws? Tanks are fun, I like tanking, don't be messing with the role in order to appeal to people who don't want to do it.

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Originally Posted by Dralonis

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I agree on a few things. While a new job isnt the end all answer to making the game feel fun, for some people, myself included, a lot of fun is mastering a single job and every expac feels like a fresh start for not only your prior favorite role but also whatever is new. Especially so if it’s your role. I love tanking, but SB made the tank I loved the most feel kinda poopy (DRK) so I’m looking forward not only to DRK, WAR, and PLD changes but to see how the introduction of GUN will shake things up.
That alone is worth it. Many people like tanking in all flavors, or even a specific flavor, but they still want more. It’s not the end all answer, but it adds variety past the people that will main it. Maybe gunbreaker will get some crazy utility with another job or something. It’s interactions as a whole are going to be the fun part of adding jobs.

Also uh, “fundamentally flawed” in what way? As in they play too similar? Or maybe the balance isn’t really right? Because that doesn’t seem any more inherently flawed than other roles.
And I see the whole “intimidating” thing a lot, it really isn’t after the initial nerves- mostly because tanking is the easiest role, and I’d wager that was intentional to make new players feel comfortable faster. So long as you start low and worl up the ladder of leveling and getting gear, you’ll at least be playable lmao. People are honestly pretty nice to new tanks because of this. Just don’t jump potion forward without practice. I started not only tanking, but MMOs in 14 so I get the feeling, but really it’s honestly pretty simple and nice for new players.
And the gear aspect is true but so it is for every job.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Same could be said for DPS, you don't need new jobs, just massive core changes to existing jobs. Oh hi there MCH.

What fundamental flaws? Tanks are fun, I like tanking, don't be messing with the role in order to appeal to people who don't want to do it.

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Isn't that what you just suggested for DPS?

Not all changes that attract new devotees for a given job or role will detract the existing ones. Just as not all changes will manage to attract/retain either...

In the case of tanking especially, there are huge lines of things to potentially add that wouldn't necessarily diminish what little currently goes into performing the role.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Isn't that what you just suggested for DPS?

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Not seriously no, it was a rather glib response to the idea that tanks could or should be happy with sweeping changes to their existing jobs rather than getting new ones.
I specifically mentioned machinist as it's an example of making large changes to an existing job backfiring in terms of player interest.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

In the case of tanking especially, there are huge lines of things to potentially add that wouldn't necessarily diminish what little currently goes into performing the role.

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I've noticed you make some interesting suggestions in the past, but for the most part people who complain about tanks being boring or broken invariably want one of two things to happen. Either they want them to be more like the melee DPS jobs with a more complex damage rotation, or they want to up enemy damage and nerf tank damage into the ground.
I'm not keen on either idea.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Isn't that what you just suggested for DPS?

Not all changes that attract new devotees for a given job or role will detract the existing ones. Just as not all changes will manage to attract/retain either...

In the case of tanking especially, there are huge lines of things to potentially add that wouldn't necessarily diminish what little currently goes into performing the role.

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Most of the suggestions i read about tanks is just plain asking to make them easier and dumber to play.
Delete enmity, make it granted, more dmg, less key stroking, stronger cds etc etc. None of which will benefit the gameplay, just make it flatter.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Same could be said for DPS, you don't need new jobs, just massive core changes to existing jobs. Oh hi there MCH.



What fundamental flaws? Tanks are fun, I like tanking, don't be messing with the role in order to appeal to people who don't want to do it.

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I also mentioned DPS and gave an example of the current situation I am in with melee DPS. I was just saying that a new class shouldn't determine if you quit or stay playing a game, not that we don't need a new tank to mix up the tank meta. Heck, in WoW, I played the same 2 classes for over 8 years for the most part. however, we had more customization options. He made it sound like "Well, if we don't have a new tank, then everyone will quit tanking!" Which is a wild accusation.

Maybe saying fundamental flaw is a bit drastic, but the flaws I consider are a bit varied. one is down to how aggro is a group thing ,which was essentially implemented as a bandaid fix to help out new tanks with stronger parties, but now used at max level so it allows tanks to focus on DPS more and that they don't really need to change much for most situations to where aggro is nothing and just shirk all the time. Shield oath is used few and far between after you gain your initial threat, tank rotation is generally barely used unless you die or healers are focused on raising people and want to help them on mana, something to that effect.

I for one think MT's should be in shield oath and they should make Shield oath USEFUL as well as other tank stances need to have more reliance on it, shield oath just needs it the most. Give tank stance only utility,certain skills, reduce damage by only 10/15% instead of 20% so the difference between the damage isn't as much etc. Tanking being fun is also subjective. You may have fun with it, but quite a lot of others may not and with changes to it, they may, as well as you may like it more with the proper changes. It's also intimidating to a lot of players in general. It's not always the fact that they hate tanking or don't want to, but simply don't want to "be the bad one" for not being in DPS stance and DPSing since their gear isn't good enough and such. I've seen a lot of tanks get yelled at and discouraged who are new as well and people who are mediocre tanks at 70 then people just losing threat since they don't build up enough like in 24 man since they are told to mostly be in DPS stance that they haven't gotten a feel of their medium or know their limits as well as under geared.

The way you tank depends much more on your gear than DPS. Healers too, but you just may be DPSing less and to a lesser extent than weaker geared tanks. This part isn't a flaw, just different and people aren't used to the learning curve tanks have to them. however, they could want to make it less of a curve so people can pick it up a bit easier and want to tank more or be more interested in doing so.

Also, it's kinda on them because of how they designed it. Just like they don't like tanks focusing on DPS, as well as I believe role actions didn't pan out well and we needed them all for some classes, so they just gave us all those skills. They clearly don't like the direction for a lot of classes in SB and their focus,just like they took STR off tank accessories, people outraged and were using gear from the previous xpac just for more STR, now crafted rings is BIS. Clearly, they didn't want this but figured they'd bandaid fix it probably until these 5.0 changes. When this was addressed at the Fanfest, they even said "we don't want you focusing on DPS anyways and will be addressing it in a future live letter." So, I'm expecting a massive overhaul. Unless they botch it and I put too much faith into them designing classes the way they want and don't get broken by the player base. Sorta why I wish we could beta test these class changes. then there's also just DRK's in general which they just messed up with them and made Warriors the only class that matters. Only half joking on that part. Warriors are just too good.

Just watch this video to sum up everything about all Job role....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwQf6H7ESo4

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Double standards? That's an easy term to throw around. No, my standard is the one set by the game and it's own cross role system.

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No, it's double standard. The game sets three roles.

Tank, healer and DPS. There is no "melee DPS" role, just like there is no "disciple of magic" role. Those are categories WITHIN a role ("disciple of..." is a category across roles...).

"Melee/Ranged/Caster DPS" are a type of DPS. Not a role. Don't believe?! Here. You can clearly see that they fall under a general role of DPS.
It's obvious that tanks and healers don't have such type distinction...seeing as they have only ONE type currently. I can assure you that as soon as they'll get at least two more of a different type (possibly even a single different class) they'll get divided just like this.

That's EXACTLY why yours is a double standard. You compare a sub-type of a role with a role and use that as argument that the ROLE to which that sub-type belongs to needs more new jobs than the ROLE that have a lot less jobs overall. If you don't understand that distinction...then it's a lost cause. You're just a DPS fanatic.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Heartnet

WELL Technically we never got Gunblader so you can still ask for Gunblader as a melee/ranged dps hybrid seeing as how Gunbreaker is just a broken Gunblader who can't use range.

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Gunblader would make more sense as a tank FF lore-wise. In FF8 every gunblader seen has a protective role, protecting a sorceress.
In FF13-2, Lightning, who uses a gunblade, also has a protection role, but I'd say Lightning in general leans more towards the DPS role.

wouldn't the inverse of a rdm be a melee dps with some ranged attacks?

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Originally Posted by Dfess

wouldn't the inverse of a rdm be a melee dps with some ranged attacks?

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That is what i hope the sword/Gun DPS Job to be like. Use the Gun for Melee attacks while having the gun to back off for a moment to range attack and then jump back in to melee while also having some Off-GCD skills that use both Sword and Gun at the same time in melee range like a highly skilled Modern Assassin Job. Maybe have the Sword/gun Job mechanic be "assassination" mechanics that focus on executing their targets with their Guns pointblank.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

No, it's double standard. The game sets three roles.

Tank, healer and DPS. There is no "melee DPS" role, just like there is no "disciple of magic" role. Those are categories WITHIN a role ("disciple of..." is a category across roles...).

"Melee/Ranged/Caster DPS" are a type of DPS. Not a role. Don't believe?! Here. You can clearly see that they fall under a general role of DPS.
It's obvious that tanks and healers don't have such type distinction...seeing as they have only ONE type currently. I can assure you that as soon as they'll get at least two more of a different type (possibly even a single different class) they'll get divided just like this.

That's EXACTLY why yours is a double standard. You compare a sub-type of a role with a role and use that as argument that the ROLE to which that sub-type belongs to needs more new jobs than the ROLE that have a lot less jobs overall. If you don't understand that distinction...then it's a lost cause. You're just a DPS fanatic.

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When will this different type occur? Gunbreaker is certainly adding no new "type" of tank. Unless that interview is true and they're splitting them into MT and OT, in which case, I suppose then we have MT and OT type jobs now. That's its own can of worms. Even that aside, let's say they add a DoM tank, and keep cross-role: why wouldn't they keep that tank in the same cross role so it can benefit from all the tank job's essentials like provoke, rampart, and shirk?

It's still not a double standard though. I'm still working by the game's own, in-game role division outlined by the cross-role system. Not all DPS serve the same purpose and fulfill 'DPS' to different extents based on the level of party utility they bring. Unless you're going to tell me that if I want to play a Bard, I might as well play a Samurai since they're the same role anyway?

And instead of properly arguing the point, you're mudslinging "You're just a DPS fanatic!" and claiming I have double standards. None of which is appreciated, and I'd hope you're better capable of arguing in good faith than that.

i see alot of people saying, "no dps have enough, wait your turn." it's not my fault the devs only put in dps mainly. if i had any say so samurai would have been a tank and rdm would have been more healer oriented. don't blame me for something i can't control cause if i could control it i would XD

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Use the Gun for Melee attacks

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Pistol whip wut

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Originally Posted by Dfess

i see alot of people saying, "no dps have enough, wait your turn." it's not my fault the devs only put in dps mainly. if i had any say so samurai would have been a tank and rdm would have been more healer oriented. don't blame me for something i can't control cause if i could control it i would XD

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Nobody's blaming dps players for SB bringing two dps jobs and no tank/healer, just saying that DPS got their toys last time and we could use another tank/healer now.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

(...)why wouldn't they keep that tank in the same cross role so it can benefit from all the tank job's essentials like provoke, rampart, and shirk?

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Because they don't have to?! Lucid Dreaming, Swiftcast, Surecast, Break, Second Wind, Invigorate and Diversion are all skills on two different lists. Sure, "Break" is basically useless (unless as a healer you absolutely cannot spend mana on attack spells), but all the other skills are incredibly useful or must-have (from when there was a limit, that is).

Similarly, there are only two tank skills that absolutely NEED to be there. Provoke and Shirk. All the other skills can be replaced with something else.

Yes, even Rampart. If the magical tanks had less innate defense for example, their version could have 25% reduction. Or they could have higher reduction with lower duration, or lower reduction with lower cooldown etc. Another skill that would need a direct equivalent would be low blow. Give magical tanks an AoE, but with a 1 or 2sec stun for example.

Convalescence?! "Increases the HP healed by targets spells by 25%." would be good replacement.

So...why have them share the skills?! Do you seriously think that the Melee, Ranged and Caster DPS couldn't have mostly the same skill lists?! It seems you forgot the very reason behind this systems inception.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

It's still not a double standard though. I'm still working by the game's own, in-game role division outlined by the cross-role system.

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Again, "Role" in this game is strictly Tank, Healer and DPS. The divisions within a role are not roles. And even if we'll assume they are, tanks and healers don't have this division only because they don't have the representatives for them. Basically, they still have those pseudo-roles, but they're at zero so aren't shown.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Not all DPS serve the same purpose and fulfill 'DPS' to different extents based on the level of party utility they bring.

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Eh...not all tanks serve same purpose and fulfill 'Tanking' to different extents based on the level of party utility they bring either.

Paladin is a tank that supports other party members survival directly, as well as bolster his own beyond the other tanks. Shield lob for interrupting casts without cooldown and lowering incoming damage in groups, Shield Swipe and its pacification, Sentinel bringing the biggest damage reduction from tanks innate skills, Cover to protect others, Bulwark offering a very consistent damage reduction, Hallowed Ground being the single most powerful defensive skill in the whole game (better than even limit break, but personal).


...I had twice as much written down...but gotta love the post limit...I made a mistake trying to copy it and lost it. So I'll keep it at that...Not going to spend another half an hour trying to rewrite it because of this forums horrible design.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

That's EXACTLY why yours is a double standard. You compare a sub-type of a role with a role and use that as argument that the ROLE to which that sub-type belongs to needs more new jobs than the ROLE that have a lot less jobs overall. If you don't understand that distinction...then it's a lost cause. You're just a DPS fanatic.

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I don't read his comment in the same context. Sounds to me like he's saying that we have enough dps roles, but if they are going to add more dps roles it should be a ranged physical since they are currently the least represented within that DPS sub-category. As in, we need a 3rd ranger more than we need a 5th melee. No double standard in that.

No he is saying we do not have enough dps and really do not need a tank or healer. Or perhaps this was someone else. Either way...
So then perhaps since healers are all ranged casters then we need mellee healers? Because we clearly do not have enough of those in that category.

As a dps main for over 5 years in this game i want something different, and Dancer as healer would fulfill that for me (depending on implementation)
I have loved Astro and like Warrior but does not really meet my needs in that i would main them

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Pistol whip wut

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Only professional assassins can pistol whip their targets to death.

Jokes aside, it would be a interesting combo for Gun/Sword Job to be skilled enough so they can even shoot enemies in point blank for "execution" attacks.

Pistol Whip would also make a good off combo stun or daze skill that then combos into a pointblank shot in the head.

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Originally Posted by Maero

No he is saying we do not have enough dps and really do not need a tank or healer. Or perhaps this was someone else. Either way...
So then perhaps since healers are all ranged casters then we need mellee healers? Because we clearly do not have enough of those in that category.

As a dps main for over 5 years in this game i want something different, and Dancer as healer would fulfill that for me (depending on implementation)
I have loved Astro and like Warrior but does not really meet my needs in that i would main them

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It doesn't read it that way at all, though.

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Originally Posted by Maero

For one i think dps we have enough until 6 or 7.0

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I disagree completely because not all dps fit in the same schema. We have enough melee dps because besides tanks they're the only role with 4 members, but beyond that we'll have to agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Which is fine you have the right for your opinion. Tank and healers need variety too.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Whether or not tanks and healers need variety is beside the point when you say dps should get no new jobs until 6 or 7.0.... Ranger dps are far less represented than tanks or healers. Only two jobs are in that role, if we're going to talk about needing variety.

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The whole context pivots on the idea that "any DPS" will do. But it won't. We already know they aren't adding anymore melee dps according to Yoshi-P, so that's fine - it's pretty much off the table. I do think we could use a 3rd ranged physical to help balance out the sub-categories a bit, after all pretty much every group wants this particular role because of the skill set they've been given. But even we did include melee DPS, we don't need another SAM/MNK type melee, if anything we'd need something to help compete with NIN because it's also a job that is highly sought after. So technically there is still some leeway in that argument I think.

As for melee healer, a lot of people I talk to seem to think Dancer could be a melee healer, for whatever reasons. I don't see a problem with it and would certainly add some playstyle variety so hopefully they are at least considering stuff like this, if not for dancer then something in the future.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I do think we could use a 3rd ranged physical to help balance out the sub-categories a bit, after all pretty much every group wants this particular role because of the skill set they've been given.

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Yes. The next DPS absolutely should be a physical ranged DPS role, I never said otherwise.

Dualgunner however said that ranged DPS are more underrepresented that tanks and healers and as such they should have importance over tanks and healers. That's the crux of the problem. We will be getting a tank and healer, but technically, even then, they are still more underrepresented with 0 for two out of three categories and with under half of the total amount of DPS. That's what I have a problem with.

Ultimately there probably will not be a DPS class this expansion. But if there will be, it should be ranged DPS. But if there WILL be one, there absolutely should also be one of each roles next expansion of a different variety. A mage tank and a physical (ranged or melee, doesn't matter) healer.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Dualgunner however said that ranged DPS are more underrepresented that tanks and healers and as such they should have importance over tanks and healers.

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They are? There are 2 ranged roles and 6 tanks/healers to choose from.

FFLogs shows 34,837 uploads for BRD/MCH. There are 139,567 uploads for all combined tanks and heals.

According to most recent FFXIVCensus data, there are 78,990 BRD/MCH. Meanwhile there are 261,865 combined tanks and healers.

So yes, they are comparatively underrepresented by every metric.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

We will be getting a tank and healer, but technically, even then, they are still more underrepresented with 0 for two out of three categories and with under half of the total amount of DPS.

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I find it somewhat disingenuous to create an artificial dilemma to claim it's an issue. There is no Ranged tank role. There is no Magic tank role. You just created these 2 sub categories out of thin air. Ranged tank role couldn't even exist considering nearly all mobs move in to melee range to attack the tank lol

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

They are? There are 2 ranged roles and 6 tanks/healers to choose from.

FFLogs shows 34,837 uploads for BRD/MCH. There are 139,567 uploads for all combined tanks and heals.

According to most recent FFXIVCensus data, there are 78,990 BRD/MCH. Meanwhile there are 261,865 combined tanks and healers.

So yes, they are underrepresented by every metric.

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Because yes, nitpicking enough to pull one type of DPS out but then comparing it to combined tanks and healers is totally representative.

Try breaking that down into tanks or healers, and hmmm. I dunno. Remove SCH from that since I don't consider it an applicable healing class, I don't like doing shield/preventative healing, I only like direct/regen healing. It's a thing, you know? I don't like a particular type of dps healer so it doesn't count when I'm tallying classes I have available.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

Because yes, nitpicking enough to pull one type of DPS out but then comparing it to combined tanks and healers is totally representative.

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I didn't make the claim, I'm just providing evidence that it's not wrong. Which, really shouldn't be necessary since it's a fairly obvious that's how it's going to play out in a 6 vs 2.

It might not be wrong, but it is an unnecessary comparison.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I don't read his comment in the same context. Sounds to me like he's saying that we have enough dps roles, but if they are going to add more dps roles it should be a ranged physical since they are currently the least represented within that DPS sub-category. As in, we need a 3rd ranger more than we need a 5th melee. No double standard in that.

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Yes, this is basically what I am saying, but I will add the caveat that pointing out subroles within XIV's DPS is a reaction to everybody screaming how DPS deserve no new jobs until 7.0. I made a mistake earlier in the thread with my counting, and have apologized for it; I'll outline it again: I miscounted because my brain counted our third expansion as 4.0 (due to not taking ARR as 2.0 into immediate consideration), so I kneejerked at not wanting a new DPS till 6.0.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Whether or not tanks and healers need variety is beside the point when you say dps should get no new jobs until 6 or 7.0. Thats 4 to 6 years of nothing for rangers or casters as well as melee dps.

Ranger dps are far less represented than tanks or healers. Only two jobs are in that role, if we're going to talk about needing variety.

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In this quote, I don't dispute we need a tank or a healer. Actually, if you look at posts in my other threads, I think we do. Emboldened is the point I was trying to make, which Whiskey touched on: whether or not we need new tanks, saying DPS shouldn't get any new jobs until 7.0 is silly and needlessly vindictive.

You can argue that Ranged Tanks are the least represented job in the game. That's fine. I doubt Gunbreaker is going to be breaking that though, and they'll all still be melee tanks. Perhaps they could break them into Off Tank / Main Tank if Yoshida is really thinking about that. I'll cede Kikix brought up some good points about cross roles shared across the sub roles, so perhaps they could do that, we'll have to see.

But I stand by that, until they decide to divide the tanks and healers into sub roles, Ranged DPS is the least represented style of play.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I didn't make the claim, I'm just providing evidence that it's not wrong. Which, really shouldn't be necessary since it's a fairly obvious that's how it's going to play out in a 6 vs 2.

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Except it's not 6 vs 2, it's 3 vs 3 vs 2.
Please stop trying to consider tanks and healers as the same role that you can pool together.

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Originally Posted by Hakuro89

Except it's not 6 vs 2, it's 3 vs 3 vs 2.
Please stop trying to consider tanks and healers as the same role that you can pool together.

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I'm not the one that pooled them together.

Please learn how to read.

The real question is are the devs breaking it down in terms of 4 melee, 3 casters and 2 physical dps. Or are they looking at it as in 4 melee 5 ranged. I think it is the latter. Because why increase the melee dps to match the ranged dps when the tanks and healers are still at 3?

Even though the difference is casting magic vs using physical damage from range. The point is that all 5 of these jobs are attacking from range, not melee thus giving you 5 range dps choices.

I think they will add another melee dps before they add another range dps or physical ranged dps.

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Originally Posted by Derio

The real question is are the devs breaking it down in terms of 4 melee, 3 casters and 2 physical dps. Or are they looking at it as in 4 melee 5 ranged. I think it is the latter. Because why increase the melee dps to match the ranged dps when the tanks and healers are still at 3?

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My assumption is that the subroles are broken down Melee/Caster/Ranger, because of how the cross role system works. Casters and ranged don't share a cross-role, and in general ranged are considered more support heavy than casters are.

The way you're looking at it is plausible though, since we have two ranged slots and two melee slots in within the limit break rules. It could be they're comparing all melee against all ranged.

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Originally Posted by Derio

The real question is are the devs breaking it down in terms of 4 melee, 3 casters and 2 physical dps. Or are they looking at it as in 4 melee 5 ranged. I think it is the latter. Because why increase the melee dps to match the ranged dps when the tanks and healers are still at 3?

Even though the difference is casting magic vs using physical damage from range. The point is that all 5 of these jobs are attacking from range, not melee thus giving you 5 range dps choices.

I think they will add another melee dps before they add another range dps or physical ranged dps.

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Yeah, lots of ways you could break it out.

By role? THen we're at 3/3/9.

By melee/ranged for dps? 3/3/4/5

Now you COULD then break out ranged dps by sub role and do 3/3/4/2/3, but why stop there then? One could then argue that we need another scouting and another maiming dps to fill out armor types becaues then we're 3/3/1/2/1/2/3.

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Originally Posted by Derio

The real question is are the devs breaking it down in terms of 4 melee, 3 casters and 2 physical dps. Or are they looking at it as in 4 melee 5 ranged. I think it is the latter. Because why increase the melee dps to match the ranged dps when the tanks and healers are still at 3?

Even though the difference is casting magic vs using physical damage from range. The point is that all 5 of these jobs are attacking from range, not melee thus giving you 5 range dps choices.

I think they will add another melee dps before they add another range dps or physical ranged dps.

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Probably melee, casters and support/projectile is what they are doing. A projectile job should be next for the next expansion (if there isn't one for ShB)- they are slightly different from casters since they have rather high mobility and bring more support functions. Now it depends internally if they are counting BLU under casters or not. After the projectile job, the question is, what should the second job be? Another tank/healer so soon is probably a pipe dream so it would probably end up as a new dps, a wacko hybrid job or dare I say it.. a limited job.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Probably melee, casters and support/projectile is what they are doing. A projectile job should be next - they are slightly different from casters since they have rather high mobility and bring more support functions. Now it depends internally if they are counting BLU under casters or not. After the projectile job, the question is, what should the second job be? Another tank/healer so soon is probably a pipe dream so it would probably end up as a new dps or dare I say it.. a limited job.

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Limited jobs are everyone's enemy.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Probably melee, casters and support/projectile is what they are doing. A projectile job should be next for the next expansion (if there isn't one for ShB)- they are slightly different from casters since they have rather high mobility and bring more support functions. Now it depends internally if they are counting BLU under casters or not. After the projectile job, the question is, what should the second job be? Another tank/healer so soon is probably a pipe dream so it would probably end up as a new dps, a wacko hybrid job or dare I say it.. a limited job.

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If they do add another ranged physical job, I vote for Corsair/Gambler. Dual pistols as the main weapons.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

If they do add another ranged physical job, I vote for Corsair/Gambler. Dual pistols as the main weapons.

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After seeing a boss do this in Orbonne Monastery, I expect MCH to be capable of this very thing and it not be moved to a completely different job you know. Dual pistols as a trance phrase, trigger happy special or something like that...

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

But I stand by that, until they decide to divide the tanks and healers into sub roles, Ranged DPS is the least represented style of play.

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See?! I don't have an issue with this. It IS the least represented style of play.

It is not however the least represented role. That is a major difference because "role" does indeed dump all DPS into one pull of 9 jobs, but "style of play" does not.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I'm not the one that pooled them together.

Please learn how to read.

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You should learn how to read because Hakuro89 is right. You are the one that pooled them together. I never said that the total of healers and tanks are the most underrepresented. I said that those two roles are underrepresented. Seeing as they both have only one overall style of play each and the same amount of total numbers (3), I'm just not going to waste time saying "Tanks are the most underrepresented role. And healers are too.". That's stupid from a writing points of view (not to mention illogical). I'm just going to say that healers and tanks are the two most underrepresented roles.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

See?! I don't have an issue with this. It IS the least represented style of play.

It is not however the least represented role. That is a major difference because "role" does indeed dump all DPS into one pull of 9 jobs, but "style of play" does not.

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We're going to have to agree to disagree here, simply because we define our terminology differently and neither of us is willing to accept the other's as anything resembling correct.

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You should learn how to read because Hakuro89 is right. You are the one that pulled them together. I never said that the total of healers and tanks are the most underrepresented. I said that those two roles are underrepresented. Seeing as they both have only one overall style of play each and the same amount of total numbers (3), I'm just not going to waste time saying "Tanks are the most underrepresented role. And healers are too.". That's stupid from a writing points of view (not to mention illogical). I'm just going to say that healers and tanks are the two most underrepresented roles.

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Actually, you said that I did in your post responding to him.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Dualgunner however said that ranged DPS are more underrepresented that tanks and healers and as such they should have importance over tanks and healers. That's the crux of the problem. We will be getting a tank and healer, but technically, even then, they are still more underrepresented with 0 for two out of three categories and with under half of the total amount of DPS. That's what I have a problem with.

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Which of course, is itself a strawman since I never said that ranged dps should have importance over tanks and healers. But in the exchange between you and Whiskey, you are the one who grouped them together.

Humorously though, even split down the middle, both have 3 which is still more than 2.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Humorously though, even split down the middle, both have 3 which is still more than 2.

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But the primary purpose of those two jobs is to DPS. There are 7 other jobs whose purpose is to DPS.

There are only 3 jobs total whose primary purpose is to tank. And only 3 jobs total whose primary purpose is to heal.

Thus, new jobs whose primary purpose it is to tank and heal are a MUCH higher priority than ones to DPS.

Now, the next DPS jobs (which will be at or close to 6.0) should most definitely be ranged physical, since they are the least represented OF the DPS jobs.