How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

The flaw in that is that the real test of ones DPS abilities is being able to perform mechanics while also maintaining adequate DPS.

---

You mean you need a parser to see your buffs drop ? Of the amount of time you stay out of range from the boss ? Or how many times you died to a failed mechanic ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

You mean you need a parser to see your buffs drop ? Of the amount of time you stay out of range from the boss ? Or how many times you died to a failed mechanic ?

---

He's saying that each DPS job's rotation may change when mechanics and movement are involved and sometimes a parser can help you determine when it is better to use certain buffs etc.

DPS on a dummy is DPS on a dummy there are no mechanics or extra movement that you may have to alter your rotation around. Any DPS job against a striking dummy is just the exact rotation until it dies. This is really far from how it is in actual fights where you have to adjust to mechanics and movement.

Sometimes the fight movement or mechanics makes it so the optimal best rotation is not possible so you may have to alter a rotation to suit your needs...so you try two different ways in a fight to make the movement or mechanic part easier for you to maintain your DPS, great, but in the end how do you know which of the two ways is better?? It's impossible without comparing data.

I mean simply put it is nice to have something show with facts that you are getting better. It reaffirms that you are doing things correctly. You do a fight one way a couple of times and see the average and then maybe you think of a better way to handle the fight buff wise so you try something different and you have a way to see if that difference is better or not for you.

This is how it helps people who use them and this is how they use them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

You mean you need a parser to see your buffs drop ? Of the amount of time you stay out of range from the boss ? Or how many times you died to a failed mechanic ?

---

Eh?

I'm saying standing still beating on a dummy isn't always indicative of one's real performance. Just because the player is performing the mechanic, doesn't mean they're competently maintaining uptime, and besides hitting an enrage or failing a DPS check, you don't know if they're playing well or not, otherwise. Even when a DPS check is failed or enrage is hit, you don't always know which member is falling behind the most because there's no quantitative data.

The reaching for straws is becoming unbelievable in this thread.

And what a happy voting bunch these parse users are. Gosh after all these pages it's embarrassing just to read more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

Just because the player is performing the mechanic, doesn't mean they're competently maintaining uptime, and besides hitting an enrage or failing a DPS check, you don't know if they're playing well or not, otherwise. Even when a DPS check is failed or enrage is hit, you don't always know which member is falling behind the most because there's no quantitative data.

---

Exactly, it's a very different thing to perform your rotation while you have nothing else to think about, and to perform your rotation while you need to handle mechanics. In the latter, it's easy to use much less actions than optimal because of movement and simply having to pay attention to things. A player can be able to beat a dummy but still perform really badly in the actual fight. Not to mention that the rotation you're performing on a dummy will have to be adjusted for each fight for optimal DPS. A parser, combined with logs (and preferably also video material of own gameplay) helps to optimise one's rotation for a fight and cut down unnecessary caps in activity, DoT uptime etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eschaton

The reaching for straws is becoming unbelievable in this thread.

And what a happy voting bunch these parse users are. Gosh after all these pages it's embarrassing just to read more.

---

Hypocrisy thy name is eschaton. Also you still never answered my question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

You have it completely backwards. So, you're doing 10k damage, then what ? Again, no parser will tell you why you did such low damage.

---

http://i.imgur.com/qkNYKSO.jpg

Well, it can map out your GCD (and oGCD) usage in a fight and if there are any obvious gaps. Cross-referencing boss rotation and damage taken might tell you if you're overly cautious about mechanics or if you're missing out on oGCD usage because you forgot or something.

Let's take a RDM for example. Fleche should be roughly 9.5% or more of your overall damage (based on a few random high-end parses), but looking at logs, you notice yours is sitting at 6-7% with 4 less total casts. DPS gains right there.

You'd think the new gauge system would help some players play their jobs better, even without parsing. Since that obviously seems like the intent. Like you see three things light-up on SAM, that you have another good skill available whether it's a 60 second DoT, a Conal AoE, or a heaver damage cast skill. But even that doesn't help people who can't read tooltips. Using that information alone you can even come up with a set of priorities depending on the situation. But thinking like that is hard for some people apparently cause they rather just hit two buttons and hope for the best.

Then you have a job like BRD, where you really don't have a gauge if you don't have song uptime so obviously that encourages a song-rotation. Oh you hear that critical-damage sound? You got another good skill available to use. Parsing is a good because you can get into the depths of your performance but you'd be surprised that you don't even need that to get a good start on playing well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waliel

Let's take a RDM for example. Fleche should be roughly 9.5% or more of your overall damage (based on a few random high-end parses), but looking at logs, you notice yours is sitting at 6-7% with 4 less total casts. DPS gains right there.

---

So, again, you need a parser to realize some of your CD stay unused ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

So, again, you need a parser to realize some of your CD stay unused ?

---

It can also be seen as not being used enough, especially in comparison to other players. It's possible for people to lose sight of what they need to keep using. Not just fleche but GCD skills in general. Bluntly speaking, you might not even realize that something is being underutilized if you can't quantify the information. In general with buffs not showing up in party (and instead being delegated to the job gauges) as well as disabling spell graphics for some players, it's harder to tell how one is performing simply by looking for cues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Easy fix. Make killing the training dummy mandatory for entering the corresponding content.

---

It won't stop people from decidingly to sandbag or otherwise not put up their side of the effort after-the-fact, at least in my experience with PF.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

So, again, you need a parser to realize some of your CD stay unused ?

---

Nope! Just helps analyzing a bulk of information in post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

You mean

---

Answer me this , because u seem to be very anti damage awareness. So will use the pvp chart again, tell me why do u think it's there in a much more competitive form of content. Also I never mention a parse, I said three things, a chart like in pop, a boss health pool, and an enrage timer. These are things well two of them u can see on PC but neither on PS4. But again how can u be ok with the chart that's in pvp, but not be in pve. SE is clearly contradicting themselves horribly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It's not knowing if you're "good" or "bad," but if your performance is up to what you either 1.

Like I said above: don't blame the tool just because people decide to use it for the wrong reasons.

---

It's not my damage, it's our damage. The group needs to work as one to raid in this game. Dps isn't all there is to down a boss, but if parser becomes a thing then it's gonna become all about those numbers.

You can use it responsibly? Great! A lot of other people can't and won't. It adds way too little of value compared to how shortsighted it makes the game.

Try asking your raid group to help you improve by looking at and analyzing your preformance. Teamwork and actual interaction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skogli

It's not my damage, it's our damage. The group needs to work as one to raid in this game. Dps isn't all there is to down a boss, but if parser becomes a thing then it's gonna become all about those numbers.

You can use it responsibly? Great! A lot of other people can't and won't. It adds way too little of value compared to how shortsighted it makes the game.

Try asking your raid group to help you improve by looking at and analyzing your preformance. Teamwork and actual interaction.

---

You are wrong, killing a boss before an enrage is math. You need X group DPS to kill it, if the group don't meet this minimum is wipe. Data is needed to solve the problem or is going to be a guessing game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skogli

It's not my damage, it's our damage. The group needs to work as one to raid in this game. Dps isn't all there is to down a boss, but if parser becomes a thing then it's gonna become all about those numbers[...]

Try asking your raid group to help you improve by looking at and analyzing your preformance. Teamwork and actual interaction.

---

Situation: group keeps wiping to enrage in OS3. All group members have beaten the SSS doll for the fight. Both healers are doing (at least some) DPS. In reality 2 DDs and 1 tank are underperforming significantly (or maybe not even significantly, but enough that the DPS lost by them combined is enough for the group to fail the DPS check). There's no way to know that without parser, and it really is about those three people's numbers, as everyone else is doing what they should. How would you, in this situation "analyse" the group's performance without a parser? You wouldn't even know why you're meeting the enrage: everyone have beaten the doll, everyone knows their rotation, and they should have what it takes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skogli

It's not my damage, it's our damage. The group needs to work as one to raid in this game. Dps isn't all there is to down a boss, but if parser becomes a thing then it's gonna become all about those numbers.

You can use it responsibly? Great! A lot of other people can't and won't. It adds way too little of value compared to how shortsighted it makes the game.

Try asking your raid group to help you improve by looking at and analyzing your preformance. Teamwork and actual interaction.

---

Yeah man, I'll totally ask my group to watch and make sure I'm casting DPS spells on my healer while they're trying to navigate Holy Blur into Folio correctly on O3S. I'm sure that will go over well.

Or, y'know, they could just look at my overall metrics afterward and gently point out that I could probably be pushing myself more. It's not up to them to babysit me and find that target area; that's something I need to do myself. But knowing my aggregate is a little low at least gives them a general guideline that I'm not casting as much as I could be during various mechanics.

I think ppl mix the parsers and logs too much, parsers do not compare your results to other ppl of your class (and even then you need to learn to read details to be sure).

I think the simplest solution would be to add an ingame parser that just reduces the results to Top DPS, no numbers just Who's First to who is last. If you see DPS-DPS-DPS-Tank-Healer-DPS-Healer-Tank as the top DPS rankings, then you know there is an issue with X DPS.

I think the biggest issue with a full on parser that gets to the micro of your Damage over time just puts to much focus on squeezing out every bit of damage. if the 4 DPS can remain in the top 4 spots, that should be good enough, if it's not, then the group can work down on what they can improve. No numbers, just 4 DPS fighting to get top spot, or 2nd.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Airget

I think the simplest solution would be to add an ingame parser that just reduces the results to Top DPS, no numbers just Who's First to who is last. If you see DPS-DPS-DPS-Tank-Healer-DPS-Healer-Tank as the top DPS rankings, then you know there is an issue with X DPS.

I think the biggest issue with a full on parser that gets to the micro of your Damage over time just puts to much focus on squeezing out every bit of damage. if the 4 DPS can remain in the top 4 spots, that should be good enough, if it's not, then the group can work down on what they can improve. No numbers, just 4 DPS fighting to get top spot, or 2nd.

---

Even better a parser that tells you how much you are close to the average of your job

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eschaton

Gosh after all these pages it's embarrassing just to read more.

---

https://m.popkey.co/dc77ae/azLmG_f-maxage-0.gif

There is a discussion to be had. If you aren't invested in it, no one is forcing you to read this thread.

At the end of the day, SE will pretty certainly never add any kind of in-game parser, but so long as there are tight DPS checks in certain content, people will continue to use them (not to mention seeing big numbers is nice positive reinforcement).

What it essentially boils down to, as far as I can see, is that it is kind of crappy for PS4 players to not get the feedback they may want by way of a parser.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skogli

It's not my damage, it's our damage. The group needs to work as one to raid in this game. Dps isn't all there is to down a boss, but if parser becomes a thing then it's gonna become all about those numbers.

You can use it responsibly? Great! A lot of other people can't and won't. It adds way too little of value compared to how shortsighted it makes the game.

Try asking your raid group to help you improve by looking at and analyzing your preformance. Teamwork and actual interaction.

---

And what if your raid group doesn't know your selected job well? While I could give a baseline on how Monk or Machinist perform, I certainly wouldn't be able to help someone optimize it. A parse compares you directly to others who play your job. Whenever I see Samurai or Dragoons doing something different, I can pull up their FFlogs and see if my rotation needs a tweak or if it were simply gear differences. A tool shouldn't be banned because jerks exist. If that were the case, we may as well get rid of Vote Kick/Abandon. People occasionally abuse those.

FFXIV is a straight forward game dependent on a set rotation and set variables. A parse won't make that any different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

Even better a parser that tells you how much you are close to the average of your job

---

Earlier you brought up a point that a parser and a log are different things. I agree with this separation of terms, however at the moment the best way to access logs for this game is achieved through parser (I speak of FFLogs).

EDIT: I only bring up FFLogs and its reliance on parsers because the logs do allow us to see damage averages for jobs in multiple percentiles but again, is wholly reliant on being able to upload a parse to the site.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bswpayton

snippi ti snip

---

the answer is pretty easy and straightforward ^^ use your brain :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khemorex

the answer is pretty easy and straightforward ^^ use your brain :)

---

I dont follow cause Im not sure which comment your replying to

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

It can also be seen as not being used enough, especially in comparison to other players.

---

As a DRG, I don't need to compare myself to others to realize if I skipped too much Life Surge of Geirskogul. And the parser won't tell me the theorycrafting behind Life Surge optimization.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

In general with buffs not showing up in party (and instead being delegated to the job gauges) as well as disabling spell graphics for some players, it's harder to tell how one is performing simply by looking for cues.

---

Considering we're talking about personal performance, "buffs not showing" is off-topic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bswpayton

Answer me this , because u seem to be very anti damage awareness.

---

I'm not. I'm against parsers, because it let players decide if you're performing well enough, which will inevitably backfire if it's made officially usable by the whole community. As for the difference between PvP and PvE, it's simple. Apart from top tier teams, PvE is not competitive. The purpose is to clear the content, and the vast majority doesn't care if they cleared it in 9m or in 8m30s. The problem with parser, and again, player judgment on how well you perform, is that the "slow" kill would quickly be consifered lacking by the "standards" set by the top teams. Even without a parser, people will bitch about tank staying too much in tank stance in primal EX, i.e, content that nobody even consider "competitive".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eschaton

The reaching for straws is becoming unbelievable in this thread.

And what a happy voting bunch these parse users are. Gosh after all these pages it's embarrassing just to read more.

---

I mean. No one is forcing you to continue reading it. Just saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Easy fix. Make killing the training dummy mandatory for entering the corresponding content.

Yes, it does. It's, again, called training dummies. Instead of measuring numbers, people can measure how fast they kill it. What's best is that if you can kill it, whatever time remains, it means you do enough DPS, and you shouldn't care if people try to harass you into doing much more just because they have stupidly high standards.

---

Beating on a dummy for 3 minutes and actually entering a fight--especially one that is mechanic heavy like, say, V3S or V4S--are two entirely different things. I can shoot a dummy all day long. Doesn't necessarily mean I have what it takes to consistently clear V3S or V4S. Aside from the fact that the dummies are solo exercises, and take zero consideration for party performance. A DPS's performance will vary significantly between solo and group settings, some classes more so than others (example: BRD).

Not to mention, these dummies don't have any outgoing damage to prepare healing jobs for the healing requirements of a piece of content.

Unless they start adding random AOE telegraphs to the SSS dummies, they're hardly an accurate representation on if someone actually has what it takes to do Savage or Extreme content. And they certainly aren't an adequate substitute for a parser or DPS meter, which is an invaluable tool for self-growth if one knows how to use it properly.

Maintaining DPS while standing still is extremely easy. Maintaining DPS while having to dodge and have, in general, higher situational awareness is not as easy.

Addition: Also, tired of seeing this argument about how people expect everyone to play like the Top 1% of Top Raiders. In my almost two years of playing this game, I've never encountered anyone in DF or PF that ever mandated that everyone should be 99th percentile. Most groups I'm in say nothing about overall DPS unless there are multiple wipes or multiple enrages; and usually it's "DPS is a little low," something that doesn't even require a parser to tell if you're hitting enrage consistently with the boss still at 20% or more. After doing a fight several times, one can usually tell when DPS is lacking, parser or no parser.

I have never encountered players demanding that healers DPS (or don't DPS), or that tanks drop tank stance. Besides, judging players based on those two examples doesn't even require a parser; one can easily just watch them during a fight (or watch their status bar in the party list) and choose to say something about how "WHM isn't DPSing" or "WAR isn't dropping Defiance for Deliverance after establishing hate." Parsers aren't required for that kind of analysis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skogli

It's not my damage, it's our damage. The group needs to work as one to raid in this game. Dps isn't all there is to down a boss, but if parser becomes a thing then it's gonna become all about those numbers.

---

Correct. And, parser or no parser, the minimum Raid DPS required to successfully down a fight is still going to exist. So I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. All I was saying was parsers are an excellent tool for individual growth. They are also an excellent tool for static growth when used properly. So my initial argument still stands.

Quote:

---

Try asking your raid group to help you improve by looking at and analyzing your preformance. Teamwork and actual interaction.

---

And if my raid group knows nothing about how my job actually works? How does that help me? How can they give me job-specific advice to feed my personal growth if they have zero idea how my job actually functions? Example: when I was discussing with my static's healers some healing tactics to make healing V2S a little easier and less MP taxing on them, one of our tanks actually said "That sounds like sound advice. I don't know any of the healing jobs well enough to offer our healers any advice on how they function." Where as I do (at least with regards to AST and WHM; a lesser extent for SCH). Meanwhile, I don't have a good knowledge of the way each tank functions in SB, but both of my static tanks do. They frequently discuss tanking tactics with one another, while using parser and video data as supplements.

You can still use parsers and communicate with your static about improving. You can still use parsers to fuel teamwork and interaction as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Beating on a dummy for 3 minutes and actually entering a fight--especially one that is mechanic heavy like, say, V3S or V4S--are two entirely different things. I can shoot a dummy all day long. Doesn't necessarily mean I have what it takes to consistently clear V3S or V4S.

---

If the fight is mechanic heavy, and you fail the mechanics, we don't really care how much DPS you do. You first goal is to properly deal with mechanics. Another problem with parsers, is that people will stare at them, and, at the end of day, will only judge the resulting number, without caring why the number is low. Worse, someone who manage every mechanic correctly, but lack some skills in his rotation or some stuff might do lower damage that a stronger/easier character in the hands of the players that fail every mechanic, and will be the one to be punished because he's "bad".

As for healing requirement, it's not really a problem, and we don't need tools to see if people died or not. But yes, dummies could retaliate regurlarly to give an idea on HP/healing checks. Which, again, doesn't require a parser :p

A little clarification, though. I know a parser is only a tool, and the more important thing is how people use it. However, if you give them to everyone, nice people will still use it nicely to help people improve, which they probably already does, either by an unofficial parser, or simplye by giving guidelines and advice, but jerkass will have the right to call you out on your number, whatever stupid requirement they arbitrary decide to put on you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

If the fight is mechanic heavy, and you fail the mechanics, we don't really care how much DPS you do. You first goal is to properly deal with mechanics. Another problem with parsers, is that people will stare at them, and, at the end of day, will only judge the resulting number

---

Funnily enough, it's that mindset that will end up getting you hit by the most daunting fight mechanic of all- the enrage. DPS AND mechanics are vital, not one priority over another. They work hand in hand and in conjunction.

Side note, anecdotally my buddy improved 800ish dps in a week yesterday with 1 iLvl upgrade after playing with a parser. People claim it won't make everyone better but it does clearly help some. It helped him find some holes in his rotation. He's ecstatic!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greedalox

Funnily enough, it's that mindset that will end up getting you hit by the most daunting fight mechanic of all- the enrage. DPS AND mechanics are vital, not one priority over another. They work hand in hand and in conjunction.

---

I would say mechanics come priority, as once you know those mechanics THEN you can keep DPSing while dodging/dealing with the mechanics of the fight. Yes, the DPS is needed to kill before the enrage, BUT if you keep dying to the mechanics, that is an even larger loss of DPS due to downtime, healer/RDM needing to res and heal the dead person and not DPSing, the weakness buff, low MP/TP if your skills to replenish are on CD, and needing to get back in there without much delay.

When I first started, the guy that was teaching me the game told me to focus on living through fights(I had just unlocked Titan EX) then work on my DPS.

On the topic of parsers, yes, they do help you improve yourself if you're willing to try. They also do give some people that superiority complex and they decide to discriminate(don't see it often - or ever in my case - but hear stories about it quite often), and those people should be giving the solid boot to the throat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

If the fight is mechanic heavy, and you fail the mechanics, we don't really care how much DPS you do. You first goal is to properly deal with mechanics. Another problem with parsers, is that people will stare at them, and, at the end of day, will only judge the resulting number, without caring why the number is low. Worse, someone who manage every mechanic correctly, but lack some skills in his rotation or some stuff might do lower damage that a stronger/easier character in the hands of the players that fail every mechanic, and will be the one to be punished because he's "bad".

---

No they won't unless you party up with idiots. Any good raider will prioritize mechanics over DPS. The idea is a seamless balance between both, which a parser allows since you can better micromanage your damage. Your example of Life Surge is flawed due to its simplicity. What a parse tells you is:

- It's a DPS gain to use Life Surge on Wheeling Thrust or Fang & Claw if, and only if, you would otherwise have to delay it a full combo to line up with Full Thrust.
- The order to utilize your buffs to maximize their potential
- Potential holes in your rotation (Doom Spike + Sonic Thrust can be a DPS gain on a single target if timed to save BotD)

These smaller nuisances add up, which only helps players improve. You cite "jerkasses will call you out." Only if the devs suddenly stop enforcing their harassment polices. We can't call people out now. Why would that change because an official parse released?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

jerkass will have the right to call you out on your number, whatever stupid requirement they arbitrary decide to put on you.

---

First, it already happens, second SE already has a policy in place for harassment. The only difference would be that the information would at least be accurate. I've seen plenty of cases of lowest dps players being the first ones to complain about someone else's dps because they're bad and don't know what hate down skills are for and are only basing it off the aggro meter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

snip

---

Okay so question: have you done any of the current savages? Your statement

Quote:

---

Worse, someone who manage every mechanic correctly, but lack some skills in his rotation or some stuff might do lower damage that a stronger/easier character in the hands of the players that fail every mechanic, and will be the one to be punished because he's "bad".

---

makes no sense in the context of most of the current endgame raids. If you flub a mechanic, if you're lucky, the only person whose dps is lowered is your own. If you're not you just either killed (and thus dropped dps for everyone you killed by 25%) party members. V3S in particular if you don't watch your mechanics you're going to annihilate your friends more than your enemy.

So where does this "person who does mechanics flawlessly but has bad dps versus person who screws up every mechanic but has godly dps" image come from? Because I can't think of many fights where flubbing mechanics doesn't negatively impact your dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Easy fix. Make killing the training dummy mandatory for entering the corresponding content.

---

Funny you say that. You keep saying that dummy strikes are the way to do things around here. But the thing is what you saying here is already a thing... Think about it, people can beat the actuall dummy before time runs out ands they think they are good to go, but yet when they do the actuall fight they are 50% low the dps they should be at. So no, not an easy fix, the ''fix'' you talk about here, already exist in game, just not mandetory to actually to enter a fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

You mean you need a parser to see your buffs drop ? Of the amount of time you stay out of range from the boss ? Or how many times you died to a failed mechanic ?

---

Gonna ask you a question: Boss is at 3% it has about 200k hp left and you are sitting with either doing a dot skill or not. Which one do you do?
Second question: The add during a add phase in a boss dies in 10 seconds do you pop b4b or not?

Having parsing built in to the game will not stop players from being bad, nor will it stop them from trying to do content that demands far more skill than they have. I spent enough time in WoW to know this. Everyone and their mother has a dps meter in that game and you still constantly find bad players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

Having parsing built in to the game will not stop players from being bad, nor will it stop them from trying to do content that demands far more skill than they have. I spent enough time in WoW to know this. Everyone and their mother has a dps meter in that game and you still constantly find bad players.

---

Because knowing your DPS is behind what it should be doesn't actually tell people how to improve. Is just tells them that they need to.

Like the rememberball from Harry Potter. It told the kid he forgot something but not what he had forgot.

You know...

I was going to make a sarcastic comment about how if they made the training dummies have mechanics SSS might actually have value.

Then it occurred to me that that might not actually be the worst idea? Even if it was just like, dodge this or fail.

I guess that is sort of a non-shower shower thought though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maku

Because knowing your DPS is behind what it should be doesn't actually tell people how to improve. Is just tells them that they need to.

---

And many players are too lazy to improve or lack the ability to, but they keep playing anyway. Often what they do is just switch to whatever FOTM class yields easy high numbers, which is ultra easy to do in FF. You can't get rid of bad players. No matter what game you play, you will find them. You cannot escape them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deathgiver

First, it already happens, second SE already has a policy in place for harassment.

---

Yes, the same policy in place for votekick abuse...we all know how effective it is

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

If you flub a mechanic, if you're lucky, the only person whose dps is lowered is your own.

---

If you do a slightly better rotation than someone else, and have a much higher gear, even your lowered DPS can be higher than them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by akaneakki

Funny you say that. You keep saying that dummy strikes are the way to do things around here. But the thing is what you saying here is already a thing... Think about it, people can beat the actuall dummy before time runs out ands they think they are good to go, but yet when they do the actuall fight they are 50% low the dps they should be at.

---

Yes, because they're still learning the fight. Their issue is not DPS, it's knowledge. I had a leader like that, that constantly wiped our team because we lacked on DPS...while some of us only were on our first try.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by akaneakki

Gonna ask you a question: Boss is at 3% it has about 200k hp left and you are sitting with either doing a dot skill or not. Which one do you do?

---

Technically, I don't care how many HP it has. I see the rate at which its health bar depletes, and, depending on how much those 3% last, I'll see how much tick my DoT will inflict.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by akaneakki

Second question: The add during a add phase in a boss dies in 10 seconds do you pop b4b or not?

---

If I can't hit anything else during the remaining time on B4D after the add, no. Especially if the boss comes back with a powerful attack before being targetable again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

And many players are too lazy to improve or lack the ability to, but they keep playing anyway.

---

And rubbing their number right in their face won't change that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

And rubbing their number right in their face won't change that.

---

If the boss was about to die, the dot shouldn't even been applied since you do more dmg doing another cd with higher potency. But yeah get what youre saying.. Anyways, ''rubbing'' the ''numbers'' right on their face might not change it, but might change the view of why they get kicked from groups doign low.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

Even better a parser that tells you how much you are close to the average of your job

---

Question. what is the average of a job? there's no way at all a parser or any system could ever tell you that..

there's far to many variables... stats, gear, I level, (2 people can be the same I level but have very different gear.) I might be 315 with a 320 weapon and low tier right side. you might be 315 with a 300 weapon but higher right side stuff. that's gonna cause a pretty big difference in our results.

then there's party compositions... that also makes a pretty big difference in what numbers you can reach.... having a sch and ast, ninja and drg in your party can push your dps up a hell of a lot more than say 2 whms a mnk and a summoner....

then there's other variables like material food, pots, hell even fight strategy and boss placement can have a huge impact on your dps... it is impossible for a parser to give you an average that you should be capable of doing...

This is where SSS shines. because it eliminates every single variable. except you. it says here's what you should be capable of dps wise at whatever level that dummy is set to... if you can beat it then you have the potential to take on the content and win. if you cant you need to up your game unless you expect to be carried.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greedalox

Funnily enough, it's that mindset that will end up getting you hit by the most daunting fight mechanic of all- the enrage. DPS AND mechanics are vital, not one priority over another. They work hand in hand and in conjunction.

---

Mechanics always come first to dps. while it's true that if you're dps isn't up to snuff you'll hit that enrage timer and fail.
its also true that if you don't learn the mechanics you'll not even make it far enough to see the enrage at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Unless they start adding random AOE telegraphs to the SSS dummies, they're hardly an accurate representation on if someone actually has what it takes to do Savage or Extreme content. And they certainly aren't an adequate substitute for a parser or DPS meter, which is an invaluable tool for self-growth if one knows how to use it properly. .

---

I think people look at the dummies wrong. the dummies don't tell you if you have what it takes to actually clear a savage or extreme fight. what they tell you is whether you at least have the potential to clear that fight before you even try. if you can't beat a dummy with 100% uptime there is no way at all you're going to be able to do enough dps to clear the actual fight without getting carried by the rest of the party..

they're an entry point basically. not a decree that you can clear it