Samurai Discussion

Enjoying SAM after some time I am going to Main this Job since as I said in the past my original favorite Job/class is Sword DPS Job/class.

It a lot about patience when players get the Kenki Guage skills since you can spend it recklessly on any skill but the main key use for it is to save up Kenki for moments wen you can burst damage or when there is over 80 Kenki energy to spend.

I still have this feeling SE may expand on this aspect of Kenki in a future expansion such as a Muramasa Guage where when the Kenki reach 100 it turns into a Muramasa Guage where players must maintain it as it goes down to 0, thus turning back to Kenki Guage, by putting Kenki energy back into the Guage using combos while all combo skills and Kenki skills get some new animation effects and increase in potency as long the Muramasa Guage is maintained.

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Originally Posted by Clawbriar

I think a minor QoL fix for Samurai would be to have the Sen bonuses in the tooltips coloured to the Sen that you actually receive, so Getsu as blue, etc etc. Right now, they're all yellow.

http://i.imgur.com/wFXHVCH.jpg

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I got lucky and built my skills into a triangle like the 3 tsubas are in, helps a lot.

123 is my 10% damage combo
45 is where I put the other two pices for the other 3-combo
I put the slashing debuff skill above my 1

So that way it just so happened that each skill granting sen is in roughly the same place it appears in the tsuba triangle.

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Originally Posted by Furious

Not that I disagree with you, but it's impossible for a 50% buff to take a 400 max to mid 800s, so something else is also affecting the numbers.

Edit: The highest value you got in your non-kaiten test was 457, which means the highest number you should get in your kaiten test should have been ~685... yet your highest kaiten dot tick was 857. To get 857 from kaiten and the slashing debuff alone your max crit dot for non-kaiten should have been around 571 damage. Of course there is a lot of variance in getting a crit at the same time as a high damage roll for a given tick, but going from 450 to 571 goes well beyond that.

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idk what to tell you then cause using the exact same gear i've gotten the exact same results every single time i've tested it.

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Originally Posted by Falar

I got lucky and built my skills into a triangle like the 3 tsubas are in, helps a lot.

123 is my 10% damage combo
45 is where I put the other two pices for the other 3-combo
I put the slashing debuff skill above my 1

So that way it just so happened that each skill granting sen is in roughly the same place it appears in the tsuba triangle.

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I mean it's also a big tell with the animations having moon, cherry blossoms and ice particles, but idk, I feel it'd be a better thing for newbies to the class and/or for quick recap glances.

Muscle memory will become a thing, everyone just needs a bit of practice and time really. Organizing them so they're oriented similar to the UI gauge just speeds it up a little.

Do you guys keep your buffs up (Jinpu and Shifu) in AoE situations ?

I've been putting them on and then moving on to the Fuga combos and Tenka Goken. But I'm not sure if it's not more efficient to move straight into the AoE, I think it might be like that at a certain threshold of enemy numbers (damage buff might always be worth it to keep up).

Jinpu is worth upkeeping, but not Shifu. It's a delicate balance of increasing your AoE damage without going TP starved before the pack is dead. And you will go out of TP pretty quickly just spamming your AoE combos.

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Originally Posted by Jarinolde

Jinpu is worth upkeeping, but not Shifu. It's a delicate balance of increasing your AoE damage without going TP starved before the pack is dead. And you will go out of TP pretty quickly just spamming your AoE combos.

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It's very unlikely that Jinpu is worth keeping up either unless you're sustaining aoe for the full duration of the buff and you have significant TP regen from your party. You won't have the longevity to make Jinpu's buff overtake casting another aoe combo.

So, Meditate.... builds Kenki over 15 seconds, but you can't move or attack and it only works in combat. It really seems... counterintuitive. You have to stop attacking and if AoE happens to pop, you're going to have to move. I hope you at least get a good amount of Kenki from the couple of seconds you may be able to get out of it. Maybe used during ultimates or boss phase transitions?

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

So, Meditate.... builds Kenki over 15 seconds, but you can't move or attack and it only works in combat. It really seems... counterintuitive. Uou have to stop attacking and if AoE happens to pop, you're going to have to move. I hope you at least get a good amount of Kenki from the couple of seconds you may be able to get out of it. Maybe used during ultimates or boss phase transitions?

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I tested this and got 50 Kenki every time if used for the full duration. Basically 10 Kenki every 3 seconds, it will tick.

I think this is the most iffy ability in an otherwise amazingly fluid kit. You attack or even move and lose the channel, then it stays on its 60s cooldown.
It seems like it should be like Monk's Meditation (wow, close in function and name). You use it during downtime to balance having to rebuff yourself during phase changes.

But it's limited by movement already and waiting for a tick to go off, so why does it need a CD at all even? You wouldn't use it in normal combat, just like Meditation, because it's still result in a damage loss.

I like that you can't move and you have to wait and channel it, that adds an aspect of knowing positioning and timing to use it in advance. But I think it'd be great if we could use it more freely to fill combat lulls and without the punishing cooldown being on top of the other more reasonable restrictions.

And maybe it's not balanced for that much use, but it seems like it should be. It's not a huge deal, and I think the biggest use will be during phase changes, particularly ultimates (as you said).

Meditate is purely for intermission periods. You can't lose the resource and don't have to worry about rebuffing anything with it, so just use it when you dont have to do anything for the longest period of time.

At level 60 in full Alexandrian gear I'm already doing 23K crits in certain circumstances. What kind of ridiculous damage is this job gonna do at endgame?!

I am 65 right now, with a full set of lvl 63 items from the dungeon at that level. I am pulling aggro off of ANY tank single target without Diversion, period. If I really fight properly and with effort, meaning I hit the proper Kenki positionals and utilize it most efficiently, weave all OCDs and so on, there is nobody in our guild, even the 68s, who can outdamage this samurai. Its bar none the best DPS class in 4 man, and will only be outclassed in 8-man if asked to outperform a crucial support role.

Seeing how we make use of single target buffs and force multipliers the most, I believe SAM to be a requirement for top DPS setups.

And frankly, I believe SE turned us into overpowered I-Win- buttons, and on a design level, I consider this a poorly balanced class, but PLAYING it, I feel like a god :p

You can't really wave anything now that cross class buff skill oGCD are out.

The only positional we have is Kasha and Gekko it gives only 5 Kenki (still usefull), True North looks like it is not mandatory...

There are 2 oGCD Kenki spenders that, if done right, you can use quite often, along with the sub-20% finisher. True North is useless, I agree. But you kinda need Diversion right now, and with TP restore, self heal, lifeleech and stun, there is zero choice in role skills.

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Originally Posted by Nexxus

The only positional we have is Kasha and it gives only 5 Kenki (still usefull), True North looks like it is not mandatory...

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Two positionals - Kasha (flank) and Gekko (rear) both give the 5 Kenki bonus.
Otherwise I agree though. Feint/Diversion/Bloodbath are more appealing for my final role slot.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Two positionals - Kasha (rear) and Mangetsu (side) both give the 5 Kenki bonus.
Otherwise I agree though. Feint/Diversion/Bloodbath are more appealing for my final role slot.

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Kasha is side bonus
Gekko is rear bonus

Mangetsu is an AoE combo, no positional

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Originally Posted by Souru

Kasha is side bonus
Gekko is rear bonus

Mangetsu is an AoE combo, no positional

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Hahah, thanks! Fixed!
Haven't slept much recently...

Damage is way too good atm, it's going to be nerfed hard, like really really hard unless other classes catch up with high-end gear. Also, the class is extremely easy to play "right" (no resources decay, spenders don't break combos, buff and debuff with very long durations, no RNG procs, short CDs) so it's a good option for new players. The only trap is the back step, it's going to kill a lot of people (like Dragoon jumps).

So far I like it and it's going to be my DPS main, just don't get used to his damage.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Damage is way too good atm, it's going to be nerfed hard, like really really hard. Also, the class is extremely easy to play "right" so it's a good option for new players.

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At the beginning yes it is easy but at level 70 players must learn the important part of being a Samurai..

Patience!

At 70 it becomes a Kenki management game where you must decided to spend it now or wait later. Building up Kenki for later is useful as it provides great Burst moments but spending it all now may help speed up to next phases but you will lose the some DPS on Burn phase mechanics.


The best choice at level 70 is to manage Kenki at 50 to 100 area until burn phase hit and then spend it all.

SAM also has very high burst damage thus it tend to take aggro off tanks more than other DPS jobs thus players must learn to hold back and be patient with SAM or else they risk taking aggro from tanks.

As for the most easy Bard seems to still have that top spot as it is now back to being highly mobile with less thought requirement for playing beyond managing songs. Just slap on DoT and keep spamming a skill while weaving other skill in between just like back in 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Damage is way too good atm, it's going to be nerfed hard, like really really hard unless other classes catch up with high-end gear. Also, the class is extremely easy to play "right" (no resources decay, spenders don't break combos, buff and debuff with very long durations, no RNG procs, short CDs) so it's a good option for new players. The only trap is the back step, it's going to kill a lot of people (like Dragoon jumps).

So far I like it and it's going to be my DPS main, just don't get used to his damage.

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If you look at the numbers and buffs to skill speed, SAM wont be as good as Monk or DRG.. but it will be close.
Dont confuse big numbers with DPS. I personally think monks are going to be ridiculous. They are designed for power creep.

I dont think SAM is going to be adjusted. Yes they have big numbers, but the numbers come off a 1.8 second cast time and by using Kenki to buff ability. So I think its pretty balanced.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

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I don't agree with this, an "annoying" resource to manage is energy from WoW's Rogue's or Rage, samurais have full control over his Kenki generation (also, no decay). For raids sure, save kenki to use with party buff or to destroy adds but that's about it. Also I don't understand why others tanks are losing aggro vs SAMs, must be gear disparity because with my PLD no problem at all.

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Originally Posted by Shortie

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I don't now, chakra generation is RNG, one fight you can be lucky and demolish the guy another GL HF (like crafting! :P). Is one of the thing I would love to be changed in the future (I really dislike RNG procs).

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Originally Posted by Driavna

I don't agree with this, an "annoying" resource to manage is energy from WoW's Rogue's or Rage, samurais have full control over his Kenki generation (also, no decay). For raids sure, save kenki to use with party buff or to destroy adds but that's about it. Also I don't understand why others tanks are losing aggro vs SAMs, must be gear disparity because with my PLD no problem at all.

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As I said SAM has very good Burst Damage if Kenki built up to 100 and spent in one go. Probably the highest in the game currently but during the down time while building Kenki energy their damage is average and much more easy to manage aggro during these moments for tanks.

It will most likely adjust over time as people over level on higher ilevel gears to be must easy to manage.

Chakra generation isnt RNG.
Bootshine guarantees one per rotation, and then you have an RNG chance (but a very high RNG chance).
Then brotherhood produces massive Chakra for 15 seconds of burst with +30% damage

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

As I said SAM has very good Burst Damage if Kenki built up to 100 and spent in one go. Probably the highest in the game currently but during the down time while building Kenki energy their damage is average and much more easy to manage aggro during these moments for tanks.

It will most likely adjust over time as people over level on higher ilevel gears to be must easy to manage.

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But is still an easy resource to manage, no RNG or constant generation. You lliterally can use a spender before hit the next skill that grant kenki to avoid capping it, keep doing that if you need to save if you don't spend as soon as you have enough to use mobility skills if needed.

Is one of the things I like about the class compare to monks.

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Originally Posted by Shortie

Chakra generation isnt RNG.
Bootshine guarantees one per rotation, and then you have an RNG chance (but a very high RNG chance).
Then brotherhood produces massive Chakra for 15 seconds of burst with +30% damage

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I'm not sure about Bootshine, from job guide only grant a critical strike and deep meditation give a 50% from weapon skills critical strikes, yes is high enough but still RNG, Brotherhood is 30% per weapon skills used. Another problem is "wasted" chakra during brotherhood, a few extra "doors" would be lovely.

Not sure about wasted chakra since forbidden chakra is off the global cooldown, or can use purification

SAM and MNK both identical gear, same Ilvl weapons, lvl 66. SAM outperforms the MNK by an insane margin. Its not even the same league. And SAM is easier to play, more comfortable when soloing and less dependant on knowing the boss abilities and breaks.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

SAM and MNK both identical gear, same Ilvl weapons, lvl 66. SAM outperforms the MNK by an insane margin. Its not even the same league. And SAM is easier to play, more comfortable when soloing and less dependant on knowing the boss abilities and breaks.

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level 66 means nothing.

To explan further, samurai from 66 to 70 doesnt gain as much. They gain a hard hitting level 70 ability, but its on a long cooldown and cost 50 kenki (which is a ton).
Monks gain Riddle of fire (which is huge) and Brotherhood (which is huge since it has a pretty decent uptime).

And Sam wont gear quite as well as other classes.

I just want to remind people that SE is pretty good about class balancing. You may laugh, but its a ton better than most MMO's. And they have a good mind to keep most classes relevant.
THis same doomsday thought process happened at heavensward, and everyone was pretty happy in the end.

AKA... play what is fun.

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Originally Posted by Falar

I got lucky and built my skills into a triangle like the 3 tsubas are in, helps a lot.

123 is my 10% damage combo
45 is where I put the other two pices for the other 3-combo
I put the slashing debuff skill above my 1

So that way it just so happened that each skill granting sen is in roughly the same place it appears in the tsuba triangle.

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That's what I did with my Cross hot bar aswell,

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Originally Posted by Shortie

level 66 means nothing.

To explan further, samurai from 66 to 70 doesnt gain as much. They gain a hard hitting level 70 ability, but its on a long cooldown and cost 50 kenki (which is a ton).
Monks gain Riddle of fire (which is huge) and Brotherhood (which is huge since it has a pretty decent uptime).

And Sam wont gear quite as well as other classes.

I just want to remind people that SE is pretty good about class balancing. You may laugh, but its a ton better than most MMO's. And they have a good mind to keep most classes relevant.
THis same doomsday thought process happened at heavensward, and everyone was pretty happy in the end.

AKA... play what is fun.

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I'm pretty sure it's a bit early to making assumptions on how SAM is with gears caling. No one even knows what our stat priority is yet. While Samurai does have the biggest hits out of all the melee their damage has a consistent flow outside of their charged attacks, not on the level of monks and ninja's in terms of speed but it's up there. Another thing to note, is you're never going to be building up a full kenki gauge in pve unless you want your damage to suffer severely because it means you aren't using any Ogcd's or Kaiten's to empower your attacks, which is a massive dps loss, they def have the highest burst potential with Meikyo Shisui, but they pack quite a bit of consistent damage if you're playing it right. These are just my current thoughts as currently from what i've played at 64.

You can use Hissatsu: Kaiten with Higabana and it will increase both initial damage and DoT ticks, don't know if this is intentional tho

Quick potency cheatsheet for Kenki spenders on single target (in case it's helpful to anyone) -

Potency per Kenki
Kaiten: Higanbana - 23.5
Kaiten: Midare Setsugekka - 18
Hissatsu: Guren - 16
Hissatsu: Seigan - 13.33
Hissatsu: Shinten - 12

Quick priority guide for samurai. Might not be 100% accurate but it's pretty solid to me.

https://m.imgur.com/a/NXNgk

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ort=confidence

Also, to add to this, I think you shouldn't use meikyo Sushui after the 2nd attack of a 3 step combo. Would be better to hold it until after you obtained the Sen you would have gotten from performing that combo anyway. I say this simply because you get the most use out M Sishui (3 whole sen) vs 2 since you would have obtained the 1st out of the 3 anyway. What do y'all think?

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Originally Posted by Leonus

Quick priority guide for samurai. Might not be 100% accurate but it's pretty solid to me.

https://m.imgur.com/a/NXNgk

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Foremost SAM Opener - Credit: Dervy
Hakaze > Shifu > Kasha > Hagakure
Hakaze > Jinpu > Gekko > H: Kaiten > Haganbana
Meikyo > Yukikaze > Gekko > H: Guren > Kasha > H: Kaiten > Midare

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

Foremost SAM Opener - Credit: Dervy
Hakaze > Shifu > Kasha > Hagakure
Hakaze > Jinpu > Gekko > H: Kaiten > Haganbana
Meikyo > Yukikaze > Gekko > H: Guren > Kasha > H: Kaiten > Midare

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Is there a link to his support for that rotation? I thought Shifu doesn't affect the dot and because of that Yukikaze would benefit the dot more? I'm just curious because I know Dervy always has strong support for his rotations and I like learning about them.

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Originally Posted by Shinji2787

Is there a link to his support for that rotation? I thought Shifu doesn't affect the dot and because of that Yukikaze would benefit the dot more? I'm just curious because I know Dervy always has strong support for his rotations and I like learning about them.

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A lot of Darcy's derivations have worked under the assumption that you have a WAR applying the slashing debuff. They are usually labeled as such - Opener (/w NIN/WAR).

I'm guessing that's the case here too but since I haven't seen Dervy's post on this one, confirmation would be good. Still, that seems extremely likely just looking at that opener. I would do the Yukihaze combo in place of Kasha if no one else is providing that debuff.

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Originally Posted by Shinji2787

Is there a link to his support for that rotation? I thought Shifu doesn't affect the dot and because of that Yukikaze would benefit the dot more? I'm just curious because I know Dervy always has strong support for his rotations and I like learning about them.

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http://thebalanceffxiv.com/
https://images.discordapp.net/attach...400&height=230

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

A lot of Darcy's derivations have worked under the assumption that you have a WAR applying the slashing debuff. They are usually labeled as such - Opener (/w NIN/WAR).

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"to be used w/o nin/war as well for now"

Research is ongoing, afaik, and I'm sure Dervy will come to the forums upon conclusion.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

http://thebalanceffxiv.com/
https://images.discordapp.net/attach...400&height=230



"to be used w/o nin/war as well for now"

Research is ongoing, afaik, and I'm sure Dervy will come to the forums upon conclusion.

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Oh awesome thank you for the redirect! That channel has a lot of the discussion points I've been looking for!

Thanks for the opener.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

Foremost SAM Opener - Credit: Dervy
Hakaze > Shifu > Kasha > Hagakure
Hakaze > Jinpu > Gekko > H: Kaiten > Haganbana
Meikyo > Yukikaze > Gekko > H: Guren > Kasha > H: Kaiten > Midare

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That is certainly interesting. Using Hagakure only on one sen. I wonder what's the justification on it.

I personally use :
Hakaze > Shifu > Kasha
Hakaze > Jinpu > H: Kaiten > Haganbana > Gekko
Meikyo > Yukikaze > Kasha > Hagakure > Gekko
Hakaze > Shifu > Kasha > Hakaze > Yukikaze > H: Kaiten > Midare