Forcing NA Duty Finder to be better, we need a grading system.

How about this system: At the end of a finished run you can X out any players you don't wish to join in a DF group any more. This way team elitist can make sure they will get only the bestest players down the line -while naturally getting longer que times, but that would be worth it, right?- and the rest of the population can continue to use the DF as is.

Well... I got some kind of doubt it will work when "elitists" players (anti-casual sounds more realist) will realize most players are playing casually (but not everyone admits it) and everyone will rush to casual mode since it will anyway still go faster, at least for roulette.

I feel kind of lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

I think the punishments is longer queue times.

---

Based on the OP the system should search for players in broader grade range if there aren't enough of them, so the Q times should not increase that much in my opinion, especially not for the mid-range players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterdeep

How about this system: At the end of a finished run you can X out any players you don't wish to join in a DF group any more. This way team elitist can make sure they will get only the bestest players down the line -while naturally getting longer que times, but that would be worth it, right?- and the rest of the population can continue to use the DF as is.

---

This could work, but not based on player per player basis. If you could setup your own DF requirements - match me up with players who do above 1000 DPS etc. that would be much better and every single player would have certain level of control over it. Of course the servers would need to record your performance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hayward

I'd dare to say that's the case because of hyper-competitive people who want junk like this integrated into Duty Finder. People who want content that only 10% of the population can play. MLG wannabes who think their backsides don't stink.

---

You seem to misunderstand the purpose of a measure like this, a lot of people seem to have misunderstood it to be fair.

We currently have the majority of the playerbase not even trying to do a proper rotation, you just have to turn on a parse on a regular expert run and you'll see the majority of healers doing 0, tanks under 400 since they don't change stances when damage isn't that great and dps who either just auto attack or play their class like a piano doing as much or even worse dps than the tank. Adding a system where players get rated at the end of the fight, it doesn't even have to be saved on their characters, maybe a achievement system for rewards, where it doesn't even have to say you suck, it just has to show their place on the overall dps and say who's in the top. If they see numbers such as 1200 and them doing 500, any player who likes the game will think "damn, i should be able to do that too" and look up into that matter and thus improve.

Now how is this a issue? On the current daily content it's not.
The current content supposed to cater to casuals doesn't have a single punishing mechanic if failed which only promotes laziness. The issue comes when people that don't care about their rotations or mechanics start leaking into content that needs it, the usual victim being extreme primals.

When a casual player attempts to run harder content it gets bashed by this gigantic wall of content difficulty where dps, tank and heal exist and they simply don't have the minimum skill level required to tackle that content, yes they meet the minimum ilevel, but that minimum ilevel assumes the player will be doing it's rotation properly and have a proper mechanic knowledge and this is why the current weeping city was so hard for some players, it's not even hard but it assumes players can do content which the majority of the casuals don't.

And then there's the usual reaction of players when someone tells them they need to improve with the majority insulting and use their sub their gameplay excuse with only a small fraction actually looking into the SSS or player guides to improve and why all this hostility? It's the other players with 3rd party programs, which are against the TOS to use, that tell them that they need to improve, not the game, so the average player who already thinks they're playing properly will think "who the hell is this guy to tell me how to play, I'll report him for using 3rd party parses" than actually taking the hint and improve.

Yes some players are pretty aggressive when telling other that they suck, but let's be fair, anyone that tried to pug a extreme primal will know how frustrating it is due to underperforming players and players who outright lie about their progress in the fight causing wipes, and this will drag on for hours, maybe even days or weeks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

...

---

Said like that it is pretty understandable.

But what about people who just sounds like "Just f*** leave MY game!". It is normal some people reply them almost "Just f*** off yourself".

Following your way, then there is no need for any kind of competitive spirit nor to objective competitivity as a grading system. Just add some kind for personnal -private- statistics with max, average and your position is enough. No grading system in requiered. Now I'm not sure dps parser is the right system for healers and tanks.

Levelling quests shows they are able to create some realistics situations, maybe they should add something like normal, hard, extrem traning mode for each quests and offer the possibility to redo quests. BUT I have some kind of doubt many people will try them.

Anyway you will never force people to look for some kind of competitions if they rather come for some kind of role play.

PS : To be fair, this problem was not supposed to happend since there is a minimum ilvl for content. But hunt gear create a problem since it is easy to get that gear. Plus it doesn't solve the problem for people who have the level (both skill and ilvl) and use content to get gear for one of their other job that they don't manage that well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

We currently have the majority of the playerbase not even trying to do a proper rotation, you just have to turn on a parse on a regular expert run and you'll see the majority of healers doing 0, tanks under 400 since they don't change stances when damage isn't that great and dps who either just auto attack or play their class like a piano doing as much or even worse dps than the tank. Adding a system where players get rated at the end of the fight, it doesn't even have to be saved on their characters, maybe a achievement system for rewards, where it doesn't even have to say you suck, it just has to show their place on the overall dps and say who's in the top. If they see numbers such as 1200 and them doing 500, any player who likes the game will think "damn, i should be able to do that too" and look up into that matter and thus improve.

---

People keep saying a "majority" of players are doing these terrible numbers, but I just am NOT seeing that. I see such a small percentage of players doing as poorly as you state here that it might be a week between DF's (if I'm running them regularly) before I see someone so bad/lazy that it affects a dungeon run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaeIsMean

People keep saying a "majority" of players are doing these terrible numbers, but I just am NOT seeing that. I see such a small percentage of players doing as poorly as you state here that it might be a week between DF's (if I'm running them regularly) before I see someone so bad/lazy that it affects a dungeon run.

---

It's pure hyperbole they are employing to try to give their position more weight than in reality it has. The person you responded to for example is very much using hyperbole with her claim that the majority of people who play are not even trying to do a proper rotation. She might have been more accurate to say the majority do not do perfect rotations all of the time or that a very tiny percentage of the users do not care about doing better rotations...instead however she resorted to misleading people on the scale of the issue like others in here in favor of a grading system because in doing so they think it gives their position more weight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

It's pure hyperbole they are employing to try to give their position more weight than in reality it has. The person you responded to for example is very much using hyperbole with her claim that the majority of people who play are not even trying to do a proper rotation. She might have been more accurate to say the majority do not do perfect rotations all of the time or that a very tiny percentage of the users do not care about doing better rotations...instead however she resorted to misleading people on the scale of the issue like others in here in favor of a grading system because in doing so they think it gives their position more weight.

---

Where did i mention perfect rotations?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

Where did i mention perfect rotations?

---

Read what I said again, pay special attention to the second sentence. The third sentence is about what it would of been more accurate for you to say but refer to the second sentence in regards to what I claimed you said of which I used your exact words.

This won't allow carrying anymore so they will never do it. Nearly the entire game revolves around carrying people through their stuff so they can get their shiny faster.

Relic is just a carry quest..basically. Is why I do hunts instead or play only with my FC...I have no problem helping people but I won't blindly carry bad people who run their mouth and act entitled. Not everyone is like that but it seems to be the mentality created with how the DF and tomes work which is why this game makes so much money. Bad players can easily get whatever they want lol.

I think instead something should be offered that teaches players. Teach them why they are "bad" and how to fix it. Either way no matter what the devs put in if people get discouraged they will quit so I don't ever see them putting in something like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iromi

I think instead something should be offered that teaches players. Teach them why they are "bad" and how to fix it. Either way no matter what the devs put in if people get discouraged they will quit so I don't ever see them putting in something like that.

---

Only so much of that feels appropriate for an MMO. It'd be kind of awkward if you failed at, say, Titan, and some Protip came up like "Trying avoiding those Landslides, they'll knock you off"! Too hand-holdy.

Guildhests essentially do this though, but bad players don't actually apply what you're supposed to learn in those to other instances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MaeIsMean

People keep saying a "majority" of players are doing these terrible numbers, but I just am NOT seeing that. I see such a small percentage of players doing as poorly as you state here that it might be a week between DF's (if I'm running them regularly) before I see someone so bad/lazy that it affects a dungeon run.

---

It's hard to tell if people are doing what they suppose without a parse, a dps check can be cleared because it requires 4000 dps but it doesn't change the fact one player might be pushing 1800 and and others 1000, maybe even less if healers are helping out dpsing. After all healer dps isn't accounted for dps checks so everything they do is a added help.

So why not reward the player that did 1800 and even those healers who used their job to the full extent and dpsed as well?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Read what I said again, pay special attention to the second sentence. The third sentence is about what it would of been more accurate for you to say but refer to the second sentence in regards to what I claimed you said of which I used your exact words.

---

Quote:

---

If they see numbers such as 1200 and them doing 500, any player who likes the game will think "damn, i should be able to do that too" and look up into that matter and thus improve.

---

AKA, players who are unaware their rotation is wrong.

Quote:

---

The issue comes when people that don't care about their rotations or mechanics start leaking into content that needs it, the usual victim being extreme primals.

---

The actual issue being people who do not want to improve.

Quote:

---

And then there's the usual reaction of players when someone tells them they need to improve with the majority insulting and use their sub their gameplay excuse with only a small fraction actually looking into the SSS or player guides to improve

---

Both types of players mentioned

Where did i mention perfect rotations and where am i misleading people?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

Where did i mention perfect rotations and where am i misleading people?

---

You keep using the 'majority' argument without enough evidence provided that supports your claim, the reality is you cannot claim such and not mislead because you have not even played with a majority of FF14 players or even spoken to the majority. Even if you try to use the excuse of personal experience as a reference for judging the majority of players based on a such a microscopic sample size you still cannot make the claim about what the majority of players are doing in your argument without you being misleading. Fact is you do not know what the majority do or think, what we do know based on comments on here is that once in a while people will come across such people but once in a while does not equal majority and neither does your personal experience in terms of the majority of people who play this game. Your using the 'majority' claim to justify and add fictional weight to your position whether intentional or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

.

---

TOS prevents me from posting actual parse numbers on the OF, wish we could with others player censored so they can be used for educational purposes but can't. You can't prove either that >1k dps players are the minority due to this same reason.
Consult healer/tank/dps horror stories.
Steps of faith got nerfed due lack of dps and mechanic awareness.
Huge thread about people asking for SE to not nerf weeping city of mhach regardless people complaining it was too hard.
The amount of people stuck on the final steps of faith add phase up to the point they were blaming people who werent standing in the circles even though that does absolutely nothing.
Recent thread saying final steps of faith dps checks are too much.
Odin 1st few weeks on release was a gigantic pain to clear due to the overall dps check.
Overall DF fame for anything harder than expert/normal(hard)mode trials.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

-snip-

---

Your resorting to a god of gaps style argument now, just because I cannot prove the majority do not do what you claim does not mean your claim the majority does is true. What I can prove is only a minority is complained about on here who do what you claim. Even if you were allowed to link and show your parser data it still wouldn't prove your claim the majority of people who play this game do what you said, your personal experience is microscopic compared to the amount of people who play this game. I also do not think the majority of people who play this game has even attempted the final steps of faith yet which again is something neither you or I can prove.

All of your points fail to prove the majority of people who play this game do not care about proper rotations. The negative connotations towards DF does not equate to a majority, it could very well be a ripple in a pond...the stone dropped in which caused the ripple is still potentially small but others might see the ripple and assume it was bigger than in reality it was. Stop using the majority argument to add weight to your position when in fact you cannot prove what it is you are trying to put forward as factual. I cannot claim the majority do not do what you say but I can say for sure your claim that the majority does is also nothing more than an assumption which you cannot truthfully prove.

To proclaim your earlier statement I just mentioned as a statement of fact is misleading regardless of intentional or not.

I am happy someone took so much time off of their day to try to find a solution to the problem. This could work out, but at the same time I don't know if it will change anything that much. You have people that are S-ranked, going into Duty Finder. Most of the 60 content that is used for Duty Finder isn't that bad to run through. Even though you can sign up for various things, if someone is serious enough they put up a Party Finder for a farm. I think more and more S-ranks will go into party finder, forcing the lower ranks to either improve (win!) or sneak themselves into the party finder. Already in party finder there is item level checks, proof of clears..this could add another check point. The system could easily make it go from less DF to a PF overhaul.

By all I means I agree that JP have it right, the DF should be for those who want to get in, get out and get it done. Let the party finder go for those who want to learn. I think the grading system could be abused, or worked around..which would cause the same issues we have now. It may work for a bit though, or could work entirely as you posted and be great. If it was like that, you'd hear no crying from me. Though when something is presented, the good and bad need to be weighed out. If you do not see a bad side to the situation, whether it is small or big, then there's no point to any of this...

The big issue is to get people to care, evolve themselves in terms of skill gradually so that when they hit that EX wall they may die a few times but can adjust. Also, to get Duty Finder in NA land to be useful, so that someone like most of these people who have posted can go into an EX run and get their gear with users that are well versed in the mechanics, while being able to prove they can at least get to a certain number for DPS.

The guildhests did a wonderful job, for the most part, with dealing with what you're going to be doing, mix that with the series of instances that teaches you how to do your job as you level up, should..have been enough. It would let you know to flash groups, or dps focus, healer focus. What I think hinders everything you learn is that on your way up, the mobs really don't give you the challenge you need to be forced to perform your tasks. Little damage is taken, less healing is needed, the DPS can be very basic and still push through. I feel that is part of it. Mix that up with EX like mechanics on dungeon bosses, to help players learn as they go. Lol tethers at level 30...

I also feel the striking dummies are a wonderful place to test this out, but should be a requirement to unlocking the content. This would make them upgrade themselves on their own.

Then again what I do like about your grading system is that it tries to put together the best matched team skill wise. So a group of players at A rank would all be within the same skill level, and if they got a S in there..well that's one less person they don't have to worry about. So there is promise to it all...then again thinking of the bad it could just make things worse. It would be a gamble, and would have to be sure that it is worth the risk. Then again, there are some people you just can't make care...

And I will ask again: What is so hard about finding likeminded people on your realm to run this content with? I have 40+ people on my friends list, all competent player, and could run with them any DF content I want any time I log on. And that doesn't even account for my FC that is filled with likeminded people as well.

This is something I honestly don't get.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

All of your points fail to prove the majority of people who play this game do not care or do not know about proper rotations which is what you said.

---

Fixed
You're so blind over my use or majority that you're misinterpreting my whole argument.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterdeep

And I will ask again: What is so hard about finding likeminded people on your realm to run this content with? I have 40+ people on my friends list, all competent player, and could run with them any DF content I want any time I log on. And that doesn't even account for my FC that is filled with likeminded people as well.

This is something I honestly don't get.

---

We already do that, it's called a static.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

Fixed
You're so blind over my use or majority that you're misinterpreting my whole argument.

---

Do not edit my post in your quotes. I said what I said, people are free to go back and read my actual post and your pretending I said something else through misleading quotes as though they came from me will get you reported.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterdeep

And I will ask again: What is so hard about finding likeminded people on your realm to run this content with? I have 40+ people on my friends list, all competent player, and could run with them any DF content I want any time I log on. And that doesn't even account for my FC that is filled with likeminded people as well.

This is something I honestly don't get.

---

^this pretty much.

I no longer run DF with randoms unless I absolutely need too, I have people I run with that I know are competent players so I roll with them most of the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Do not edit my post in your quotes. I said what I said, people are free to go back and read my actual post and your pretending I said something else through misleading quotes as though they came from me will get you reported.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

Fixed
You're so blind over my use or majority that you're misinterpreting my whole argument.

---

/10char...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

We already do that, it's called a static.

---

Oh really now? Gosh, I didn't know that! But if you have one of those new fernagled 'statics', what does the whole topic, the miles long discussion about it, concern you? You have already achieved what you wanted, surrounded yourself with players of your level, that bring results that you deem acceptable for your experience. There is no reason to call for arbitrary rating systems for other people unless you need to feed your own ego and signal to everyone around you that you are not one of 'them'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterdeep

Oh really now? Gosh, I didn't know that! But if you have one of those new fernagled 'statics', what does the whole topic, the miles long discussion about it, concern you? You have already achieved what you wanted, surrounded yourself with players of your level, that bring results that you deem acceptable for your experience. There is no reason to call for arbitrary rating systems unless you need to feed your own ego and signal to everyone around you that you are not one of 'them'.

---

So instead of having every type of player play with each other, we're going to separate them into groups rather than help players who want to improve clueless about their performance.
That's the major difference between the japanese players and the western players, they host runs to help players clear runs, we sell runs to carry. They encourage teamwork, we exile players into groups.

That is not the solution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

So instead of having every type of player play with each other, we're going to separate them into groups rather than help players who want to improve clueless about their performance.

---

But that is quite literally what you are calling for. A rating system that divides by DPS will make sure people with weak dps stay with other people who don't know better, while people whith better DPS can march through the content in 10 minutes, don't say a word and get back to idling in Idyllshire. The very system we have right now lets you have every type of player, that is the very beauty of it. Any kind of raiting will seperate it even more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

So instead of having every type of player play with each other, we're going to separate them into groups rather than help players who want to improve clueless about their performance.

---

Further segregation via use of such a grading system proposed here will only make it worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Further segregation via use of such a grading system proposed here will only make it worse.

---

Hear, hear!

Agreed indeed, rather than pulling the community apart, we need to be bringing it back together. The best way to improve people's play is to play with them, and compliment them on good performance. Generally speaking carrots work better than sticks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterdeep

But that is quite literally what you are calling for. A rating system that divides by DPS will make sure people with weak dps stay with other people who don't know better, while people whith better DPS can march through the content in 10 minutes, don't say a word and get back to idling in Idyllshire. The very system we have right now lets you have every type of player, that is the very beauty of it. Any kind of raiting will seperate it even more.

---

A system that allows players who want to improve but aren't sure of their performance to join harder content such as extremes and endgame raiding. Also how is this going to segregate players if this is a duty clear only thing. If people get SSS performance on a fight but B on another, that doesn't impact their overall popularity at all, like i said before at best all there could be character tracking wise is how many best ranks you can get yourself for a mount or something to reward those who work hard.

And i ask once again, what is wrong about rewarding players who work hard and give a incentive for those who don't to work harder?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

A system that allows players who want to improve but aren't sure of their performance to join harder content such as extremes and endgame raiding. Also how is this going to segregate players if this is a duty clear only thing. If people get SSS performance on a fight but B on another, that doesn't impact their overall popularity at all, like i said before at best all there could be character tracking wise is how many best ranks you can get yourself for a mount or something to reward those who work hard.

And i ask once again, what is wrong about rewarding players who work hard and give a incentive for those who don't to work harder?

---

Why is it necessary to segregate players in a game, this isn't a competitive sport it's a game people play. If you have a problem with the performance of people in Duty Finder, use PF, make a premade from your elite group and enjoy yourself. Rather than separating players with divisive systems, we should be bringing players together and assisting each other and coaching players who want to improve with positive and inclusive messages instead of critical, negative and divisive messages/systems/behaviors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

A system that allows players who want to improve but aren't sure of their performance to join harder content such as extremes and endgame raiding. Also how is this going to segregate players if this is a duty clear only thing. If people get SSS performance on a fight but B on another, that doesn't impact their overall popularity at all, like i said before at best all there could be character tracking wise is how many best ranks you can get yourself for a mount or something to reward those who work hard.

And i ask once again, what is wrong about rewarding players who work hard and give a incentive for those who don't to work harder?

---

All this can already be achieved by actually speaking to people and engaging them in a conversation.

And what other rewards than

>finishing the dungeon
>in a quick time because you did your best
>with loot to boot

Do you need? Why are MMO player such entitled children that they absolutely need a gold star with glitter smilie for every little bit they do.

>but we carry all the bads!

Personally, it feels amazing if I finish an encounter and know: We wouldn't have made it if it wasn't for me. I carried this team. And it doesn't matter if I get a firework spelling my name at the end, with half naked Miqo'te dancer praising my name and the rarest of mounts decending of the sky. I am just happy I could contribute and help along.

You know, being a little, tiny bit Warrior of Light.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

The real problem people seem to think is that the bad players could get better if only they had the proper encouragement whether you try and form it through a positive or negative reinforcement system the fact of the matter is that 90%(Made up statistics for lulz) of "bads" are bad because they just don't care to play to your standards 100% of the time or don't care to learn at all.

---

This is such a fundamental truth that I cannot fathom how people can ignore it.

The only way to improve things with the game and systems we have is very gradually through educating the players in general, by keeping a positive message and willingly helping/coaching others who are receptive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waterdeep

I am just happy I could contribute and help along.

You know, being a little, tiny bit Warrior of Light.

---

Indeed.

Sometimes I wish that more people would actually embrace the role we have in the story - Warrior of Light, rather than Warrior of Selfishness...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

So instead of having every type of player play with each other, we're going to separate them into groups rather than help players who want to improve clueless about their performance.

---

The OP's proposal is to impose a ranking/grading system which will relegate those players who do not achieve as high a rank as himself into lower ranked groups in an effort to exclude/segregate and further distance himself from them within DF even though we already have such segregation via PF. The proposed grading system will cause longer queues and lower the quantity of higher skilled players for which the lower ones can learn from. Do you even know what 'segregation' means?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Why is it necessary to segregate players in a game, this isn't a competitive sport it's a game people play. If you have a problem with the performance of people in Duty Finder, use PF, make a premade from your elite group and enjoy yourself. Rather than separating players with divisive systems, we should be bringing players together and assisting each other and coaching players who want to improve with positive and inclusive messages instead of critical, negative and divisive messages/systems/behaviors.

---

On a side note from the threads topic of a grading system, it would be nice if all current mentors in this game held the same belief you expressed above in the quote here. If your not a mentor you should become one provided you hold true to the things you said in the above quote and stick by what said in actions and not just words. I hope you do in game as said since that is the right mentality for a mentor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

And i ask once again, what is wrong about rewarding players who work hard and give a incentive for those who don't to work harder?

---

Incentive is one thing but the way players really use it is a pretty different matter and that's the problem. The line is very very very thine with a grading system that will lead people to compare to each other. What does a grading mean? Competition. I pretty doubt a lot of people come in a MMORPG for some kind of competition. That's not my case, I pretty don't care with competition.

I'm crearly against any kind of grading system. In PVP, I can understand, for the PVE that's not the purpose of the game content. It is team work but absolutly not a comparison of players or teams. Even Yoshida has said that after the world first clear of Coil. Why? He's not against world first and such comparison but he don't want to encourage use of a parser. Because that's not the world of FF, the concept of FF.

Personal statistics, why not, but no grading. You will just lead all players who not only don't care but don't come either in a FF for any kind of competition to leave the game. How could you give any kind of guarantee that the grading system will not lead to some kind of segregation? It will only makes things worse between people who will ask even harder content and those players who play for RP, for fun, as entertainment or leisure and don't care, even are not interested, in competition.

You use these words yourself : work harder. But it is NOT the aim and the purpose of an entertainment as FF is. It is a game.

In fine, all topics about skills of players make me think about one thing. SE should have offer the possibility to get private servers licences, for those who only think in term of comparison and competition.

Not all players are in need of adrenaline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Why is it necessary to segregate players in a game, this isn't a competitive sport it's a game people play. If you have a problem with the performance of people in Duty Finder, use PF, make a premade from your elite group and enjoy yourself. Rather than separating players with divisive systems, we should be bringing players together and assisting each other and coaching players who want to improve with positive and inclusive messages instead of critical, negative and divisive messages/systems/behaviors.

---

With that you're separating DF users from PF users and making DF users completely unaware of their performance since they won't have anyone to compare.

Also "you" "you" "you" "you" "you", this isn't about me or any other player who plays better than the average, is about the players themselves who see themselves unable to clear content once SE decides to implement new and harder content.

The content should be a stepping stone to endgame raiding with the 1st step being dungeons then 24 man and hard trials, then extremes and finally savage, except dungeons are made easy so players can practice and improve their skills. But how do we encourage players to improve or even to do their proper rotation?
A duty clear rating would be a good bandaid on the problem though personally i would rather a gradual increase of the overall difficulty with proper heal, tank and dps checks rather than the borefest we have for dailies of damage sponges an a occasional aoe.
Look at WCoM for example, hard as hell on the 1st week but it gradually got easier as players learned the mechanics, we need that sort of difficulty in dungeons that slowly encourages players to improve with harder mechanics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

The OP's proposal is to impose a ranking/grading system which will relegate those players who do not achieve as high a rank as himself into lower ranked groups in an effort to exclude/segregate and further distance himself from them within DF even though we already have such segregation via PF. The proposed grading system will cause longer queues and lower the quantity of higher skilled players for which the lower ones can learn from. Do you even know what 'segregation' means

---

That i do not support, you can even see on the OP my example with vindictus rating system who gives the players a rating that works for nothing other than exp boosts, gold boosts and for a performance check. We even already have a similar system in game, with red and blue scrips rewarding those who craft above the required minimum collection with extra exp and scrips.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

With that you're separating DF users from PF users and making DF users completely unaware of their performance since they won't have anyone to compare.

---

What utter nonsense. PF and DF exist for completely different reasons. DF exists to allow people to party with others so that anyone can get a party. Segregating DF into bands by ability goes against the basic purpose of Durty Finder. If you cannot see that, there is little point continuing the discussion.

Party Finder exists for the purpose you appear to wish to impose on DF. You can be more discriminating in your selection of party members because you are making a premade rather than accepting the random players assigned by DF.

A 'duty clear rating' system is divisive and completely unnecessary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

On a side note from the threads topic of a grading system, it would be nice if all current mentors in this game held the same belief you expressed above in the quote here. If your not a mentor you should become one provided you hold true to the things you said in the above quote and stick by what said in actions and not just words. I hope you do in game do as said since that is the right mentality for a mentor.

---

I try very hard to keep to beliefs I expressed. I cannot become a mentor, as my levels* will not allow it. I enjoy helping others, it's one of the things I like most about MMORPGs. I can't say I'm perfect, of course, but I try very hard to stick to the principles and beliefs I express.

I think that is true for everyone of course. We all have bad hair days, but as long as we keep trying and acknowledge our own failings, we can make things better.

(*) my progress has been stalled for about 18 months. I play with my wife and son, and we progress through the story together. My wife's health has been such that she cannot play, and so rather than leaving her behind, I have focused on alt jobs/classes while I wait for her to be able to play again. As a result, my levels will not allow me to be a mentor at this time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Segregating DF into bands by ability goes against the basic purpose of Durty Finder. If you cannot see that, there is little point continuing the discussion.

---

Yes, definitely there is some misunderstanding going on. I don't support a system that would separate DF players at all, that would make queues take a eternity too. Hope that's clear.

What i support is a duty performance rating, you can see in the OP post my example with vindictus that has a dps, heal, etc report on how the player performed and is given a boost in exp, gold and some other stuff (for xiv could be tomestones) that works as a incentive for players to play better rather than doing the minimal possible through daily content. There could be a achievement as well on how many times you get a S rating for a mount or something like it already exists for commendations to prevent players from stopping playing properly once they lose interest in the extra rewards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

Yes, definitely there is some misunderstanding going on. I don't support a system that would separate DF players at all, that would make queues take a eternity too. Hope that's clear.

What i support is a duty performance rating, you can see in the OP post my example with vindictus that has a dps, heal, etc report on how the player performed and is given a boost in exp, gold and some other stuff (for xiv could be tomestones) that works as a incentive for players to play better rather than doing the minimal possible through daily content. There could be a achievement as well on how many times you get a S rating for a mount or something like it already exists for commendations to prevent players from stopping playing properly once they lose interest in the extra rewards.

---

So, you think that by giving players who are already more skilled than others more rewards, you will somehow incentivize others to do better? I understand that, however the problem is not the incentive, it's the way the community reacts to each other. Giving more loot to those at the top of the skill tree will simply accelerate the rate at which that part of the community moves away from the rest. that will in all practical senses cause further division and segregation of players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

So, you think that by giving players who are already more skilled than others more rewards, you will somehow incentivize others to do better? I understand that, however the problem is not the incentive, it's the way the community reacts to each other. Giving more loot to those at the top of the skill tree will simply accelerate the rate at which that part of the community moves away from the rest. that will in all practical senses cause further division and segregation of players.

---

Don't really see why. We can see on how the achievement system in games was so successful since people will always attempt to beat themselves be on single player games or multiplayer ones, adding such a system would only add barriers for players to break themselves, not to break between each other. And ratings being private to each player, there is no way any others would know how well/badly you did.

You have to be careful with incentives and rewards, this game already has a large gap between the casual player and the hardcore in terms of potential gains/rewards.

Imposing additional rewards on every single piece of content run through DF (including casual/lower level content) will serve to breed more contempt and resentment between the have and have not's, the hardcore and the casual. Even if you have good intentions and you see it as an incentive...others will see it as a punishment and no-one likes to be punished but not everyone can or would be able to achieve the highest rank whether for medical reasons, age/maturity or despite trying their best they simply cannot do as well as others.

It is even worse if they are being singled out and harassed because their score/rating or performance is made known to others in the group which is same reason why SE does not officially support party wide parsing. It will cause more division and more segregation, more conflict and resentment made worse by the OP's suggestion of actually punishing people by forcing them into lower ranked groups from which has less good quality players to learn from while at same time forcing their queue times to be longer. SE needs to be very careful in how much they reward the top tier players when the hardcore members of this community are a small fraction of the player base.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mp-please

Don't really see why.

---

In fact, it is because without even realizing it, you think through a competitive spirit. What sounds natural for you is not necessary the same for others. People who don't care about competition will continue to not care. And what Kosmos992k describes will just naturally happen.

Through the weekly rewards note or the NPC for achievments, or personnal statistics, maybe there is a possibility, but still, the line is thine and I hardly imagine SE going that way.