ARR Gil Cap Reduction

In the end it's not a Gil cut, but emotionally it feels like one. You put in effort to earn millions of Gil which will now become thousands. It's just very off putting, even if there is really no impact.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

In the end it's not a Gil cut, but emotionally it feels like one. You put in effort to earn millions of Gil which will now become thousands. It's just very off putting, even if there is really no impact.

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Yup, that's true. Though its clear why they did this. The numbers are needlessly inflated. Being a millionaire means nothing right now. It'll actually have emotional weight to hit 1 mil in ARR.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Anyone who understands this... any sellers who understand this

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Anyone who knows how it works will immediately drop their prices

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

the few who understand how it works will have absolutely no trouble putting things up for 10% of what they used to be because anything greater is a rip off.

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Please don't insult my intelligence by thinking I don't know what redenomination is. BUT you and I both have pointed out the same thing, that the mass populace will not immediately and knowingly drop their prices to 10% of what they used to be. People aren't going to be like "OH! It's 2.0, mark everything down 90% if I want it to sell!" In a perfect world, that'd be what would happen, but no, vendors will test the waters to see what they can get away selling it for first.

If I have an item worth millions, my first reaction isn't going to be drop it down to a couple hundred thousand. I'm going to start by dropping it a mil or two... wait.. see if it sells(and god help the markets if it does sell and prices stay up), then lower it another mil. This will take time for prices to balance. Now, if this redenomination happens, I have a feeling that new gear from 2.0 will be put up at prices that reflect the redenomination, maybe a little higher because they're new.

But still, in the time that it takes for everything to level out you have new players who cannot buy gear and old players who are pissed off that "wealthy" suddenly means having 100k+ gil(which I can't think of any game that that's the case). These are two things that SE cannot afford to have! They need a player base. If they don't get it right going in to 2.0, the people who are giving this a second chance are just going to laugh and leave. SE doesn't have two weeks or a month or two months for the markets to balance. There was a wall of threads raging about 2.0 grass Noctis, do you really trust the intelligence of this community to accept that 90% of their money is "gone" with dignity and grace in an orderly emotionless fashion?

Also - The gil cap wont be reached sooner with a lower cap, as all gil rewards and costs will be adjusted in a similar manner. This is not some massively complicated adjustment if you all take a second to look at the big picture rather than short-sightedly looking at your insignificant gil count

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Originally Posted by Sounsyy

There was a wall of threads raging about 2.0 grass Noctis, do you really trust the intelligence of this community to accept that 90% of their money is "gone" with dignity and grace in an orderly emotionless fashion?

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The forums are a vocal minority for the most part. Ignore them

@ Sounsy

What Kira said.

Also, I never said it'd happen across the whole populace immediately. I even said in 1 post there will be a transitional period for prices to readjust and even predicted in other posts how some people will drop a bit and see who bites first. You went through the trouble of quoting me so much, how did you manage to miss those?

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Originally Posted by KiraHime

The forums are a vocal minority for the most part.

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Vocal minority does not mean that their opinions are in the minority.

Perhaps.

What you see on the forums sure as hell doesn't represent the majority though. This isn't the first major change we've been through where people went crazy on the forums first.

This is very true. Admittedly all we can do is wait, but I guarantee that when that same majority who doesn't read/participate in the forums logs in to 2.0 on day one full of excitement, but see that their 8mil is now 800k, their first thought won't be "oh this is clearly a redenomination, let me go check the nearest npc vendor to be sure" but more of a "WTF WHAT HAPPENED TO MY GIL? SE LOST MY GIL!"

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Yoshi has a long post up about the gil redenomination (in Japanese obviously):
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...034#post831034

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if even the dev troll us around in the end, no point playing this pos.

I liked the part about the price of NPC being dynamic and changing depending of the economy. I can't wait to have a proper translation about this one. If it's really the case, then what's the point of cutting our gil if the price of NPC vary with inflation/deflation? stupidity.

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Originally Posted by PandaTaru

if even the dev troll us around in the end, no point playing this pos.

I liked the part about the price of NPC being dynamic and changing depending of the economy. I can't wait to have a proper translation about this one. If it's really the case, then what's the point of cutting our gil if the price of NPC vary with inflation/deflation? stupidity.

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Because at the moment everyone is dealing with huge numbers for simple purchases. It doesnt make sense for newbie gear to be coasting 16000g at level 12. But costing 1600g makes a lot more sense. Inflation caused by the way gil was handled at launch led to this somewhat "none issue" of everyone being seemingly "super rich". But having 1 million gil doesnt mean anything, anyone can have a million gil after an hour of play.

It would have been troublesome for them to do this at any other point of in time though, keeping the way gil has been handled through 1.xx makes sense. I for one look forward to our new world order!

I agree that redenomination of gil is a good idea, and this game desperately needs it. I'm simply worried about player reaction and what that could do in the big picture of re-launching this game successfully.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Yoshi has a long post up about the gil redenomination (in Japanese obviously):
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...034#post831034

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I said this back on the 14th..

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

This is how I understand it as well and makes sense with what Reinheart posted above.

If you have 300 mil, it becomes 30 mil.
If you have 90 mil, it become 9 mil.

Person 1 still has the same % more then person b.

Everyone that thinks they just lop you off to 99 mil if your over 100 mil is dreaming. (think about it, how is that remotely fair lol)

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No one wanted to believe me... It makes sense and is the only fair way to do it

I agree with Meatdawg and similar postings.

You're not losing any gil. Think of it as an exchange. 10 1.0 gil = 1 ARR gil (Insert Gath Joke)

To all the people that said myself, Meatdawg, and others were "stupid" or "trolls"...

I'm not saying I told you so, but... I told you so :P

Funny how I made that very same equation and Gath joke.

Well looks like all is resolved. I'll go back pages and call out the people who were so adamantly wrong later when I'm actually on a PC. One guy even asked if I'd be willing to shove my foot in my mouth and post pics.

I hope they'll also reduce the guildleve gil rewards by 90%, otherwise our gil will drop in value pretty fast.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

I hope they'll also reduce the guildleve gil rewards by 90%, otherwise our gil will drop in value pretty fast.

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I'm pretty sure it's one of the bullet points in his post.

Waiting for that translation...

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Originally Posted by Efrye

I hope they'll also reduce the guildleve gil rewards by 90%, otherwise our gil will drop in value pretty fast.

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Everything related to Gil will be readjusted. That includes Guild leves, treasure chests, monster drops, vendor prices relating to buying/selling, quest rewards and more. It's not simply just a reduction of player currency.

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Originally Posted by Junpei

I read it that are basically reducing everyone's money to fit the new economy.

If you take your current gil count, and knock the last digit off, that's how much you'll have in ARR

This isn't bad for anyone, regardless of how much money they have, because it happens to everyone simultaneously.

If you had 10x more cash than another player before, you will still have it after. A world wide economy change like this isn't necessarily needed, but it does make the numbers smaller and easier for everyone to deal with.

Its the difference between counting everything in pennies or pounds. except because Gil has no smaller derivative they are manually adjusting it, something easily done with a virtual currency.

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Quote from Junpei in another thread on the 14th. This is the post that meatdawg vit quoted when he made his!

A small minority of intelligent players got this right straight off the bat and were called idiots for it.

Some of the responses to junpei in that thread were amazing too

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Originally Posted by AntonyB

In all honesty, I never knew I would ever meet people with this amount of stupidity in the world, guess MMOs have proved me wrong..

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

and you would be incorrect, because that is what they are doing, lowering the max, not changing how much gil everyone has.

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You can exploit this by buying warped arrows for 2 gil a piece now and selling them back after launch for 1 gil a piece.

If you have 10 mil now you would have 5 mil @2.0 instead of 1 mil... Of course you need the retainer space to store that many arrows...

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

You can exploit this by buying warped arrows for 2 gil a piece now and selling them back after launch for 1 gil a piece.

If you have 10 mil now you would have 5 mil @2.0 instead of 1 mil... Of course you need the retainer space to store that many arrows...

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Unless in ARR arrow's are only sold in complete stacks and you could be ripping yourself off!

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Originally Posted by KiraHime

Unless in ARR arrow's are only sold in complete stacks and you could be ripping yourself off!

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not to mention that it would take 500 inventory slots to hold a million gil's worth of warped arrows... which I believe was the joke Meatdawg was making.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

Will you also be willing to shove your foot into your mouth and post the pics if it turn out SE isn't adjusting player's money after all?

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I'll post this instead.

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/ga...gay-batman.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ferth

not to mention that it would take 500 inventory slots to hold a million gil's worth of warped arrows... which I believe was the joke Meatdawg was making.

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Time to buy more character slots and spread my gil through the wealth of warped arrows! in ARR Warped arrows will be the new GIL!

To be fair, when the game launched, Wind Shards were move valuable than gil. People would trade in wind shards as gil was commonplace and not needed.

Yes, hoarding mats and crystals is probably a good idea

What we need is a translation of this:

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

プロデューサ/ディレクターの吉田です。

先日行った第三回プロデューサーレターライブでの
「新生時、ギルの桁を一桁下げるデノミネーションを行います」という発表に際して、
改めて明確にご報告します。ただし、ライブでもお伝えした繰り返しになりますが、
しっかりトピックスを出しますので、最終的な詳細は少々お待ち下さい。

1.新生FFXIVのNPC販売品や買取価格は現行FFXIVの1/10の価格になります
2.新生FFXIVの各種コンテンツ/モンスタードロップなどの報酬ギル量は現行FFXIVの1/10になります
3.現行FFXIVで1桁ギルで販売されているアイテムの買取価格は新生で調整か破棄されます
（破棄となるアイテムは自動的にギル還元しますが、その際も現行価格の1/10で還元されます）
4.バトル仕様の大幅変更などにより、新生FFXIVと現行FFXIVのアイテム価値は異なります
5.現行プレイヤーの皆さんの所持金は新生FFXIV開始時1/10になります

つまり、これまでに皆さんがギルを貯めるために行った努力は無くなりません。
皆さんの所持ギルが1/10になったとしても、ギルの排出量もNPCの売り買いの価格も
1/10になるため相対的にはなにも変わりません。
ただし、心情的にご迷惑をおかけすること、申し訳なく思います。

もちろん感覚的にも「お金が減らされる！」という思いはあるかもしれませんが、
この先新生以降、長く運営していく上で経済桁数が大きくなり過ぎているよりも、
現実に近い価値感覚の方が、プレイして頂きやすいと思っての措置です。

新生の弓術士は矢を必要としなくなるため、矢の販売価格のために桁が上昇していたのを
適正化しようというのが今回の理由の全てです。
それ以外に現行プレイヤーの皆さんのギル数を削減したいなどの、他意図はありませんので、
その点についても、もう一度申し添えておきます。

ライブでも「全体の経済も1/10にしますので、不利益はありません」と
シンプルにお伝えしましたが、言葉足らずで大変失礼致しました。

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ここから先は蛇足部分ですので、小難しい話が嫌な方は読み飛ばしてください。

新生FFXIVへの移行で行われるデノミネーションは、
上記のように「排出量も獲得量も流通量も1/10」というものです。
つまり「今は何もしない」が最も堅実です。

「1/10になってしまう前にアイテムに還元だ！」という考えもあるかと思いますが、
1と3と4に書きました通り、NPCのアイテム買取価格やバトルで有用なアイテムは、
新生FFXIVのバランスに合わせて変化することになります。

例えば「天眼のマテリガを今のうちに買い占めてしまおう！」と考えたとします。
ですが、新生FFXIVのバランスで天眼のマテリガ排出量がそもそも変化する可能性もありますし、
現行FFXIVのバランスほど有効ではないかもしれません。
これは今もバランスを取りつつ製作している我々にも、明確に回答できない部分です。
つまり「買い占めたはいいが、新生で大損した」というケースも発生します。
その可能性にかけて「先物買い」するというのもアリではありますが、
「大損の可能性」も同時に考慮して頂けたらと思います。

つまり「何もしない」のが最も堅実ということになります。

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post831034

The link was already posted. Waiting for official or rein translation.

However one can confirm the redenomination with Google Translate quite easily.

They did not learn their lesson from the negative perception of Fatigue versus the positive perception of Rested bonus XP (almost the same result in the end, but really different perception).

They could have just increased every NPC and other gil-related features by 10x instead of cutting 90% of the players' gil and no one would have complained.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

They did not learn their lesson from the negative perception of Fatigue versus the positive perception of Rested bonus XP (almost the same result in the end, but really different perception).

They could have just increased every NPC and other gil-related features by 10x instead of cutting 90% of the players' gil and no one would have complained.

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I would have lol.

Make the numbers more inflated so the cheapest thing in game costs 100+ gil? No thanks.

The comparison of fatigue and rested bonus is that of negative and positive reinforcement.

Redenomination is neither of those things as it isn't reinforcing anything. It's simply a basic algebraic formula being applied across a large scale currency.

So, in the case of redenomination, sure people will perceive it as they like and be all upset but it will be temporary, until the market settles and people move on. In the case of fatigue, people would never settle as they constantly get negatively reinforced to play less.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I would have lol.

Make the numbers more inflated so the cheapest thing in game costs 100+ gil? No thanks.

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You realize income is interdependant of prices, so everything would have been the same anyway ?

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Originally Posted by Chinook

You realize income is interdependant of prices, so everything would have been the same anyway ?

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Well.. yes I've been arguing that very point. It would be the same technically, yes. However it'd be annoying as hell to deal with larger and larger numbers for no reason. This is why they're dropping a digit instead of adding one in the first place..

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I suppose we both have our predictions of how this redenomination will play out in the market. At this point I'm officially tired of trying.

[...]
l

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I suppose only time and how the market will be in v2.0 will prove either of us right or wrong. And for having lived the change of money here in Europe, you're trying to explain how redenomination works and its advantages/disadvantages to the wrong person.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I suppose we both have our predictions of how this redenomination will play out in the market. At this point I'm officially tired of trying.

As it has been with every other change that hit this game, we'll just see what happens. However I don't want to discuss this any further I feel like I've said everything I had to say. Oh, and I won't make some accusation against any of you to cover myself as I leave either lol

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3 posts later ->

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Funny how I made that very same equation and Gath joke.

Well looks like all is resolved. I'll go back pages and call out the people who were so adamantly wrong later when I'm actually on a PC. One guy even asked if I'd be willing to shove my foot in my mouth and post pics.

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Wonder why people don't put weight in what you say? Most people aren't stupid enough to take for granted the words of somebody who contradict himself every 3 posts. A troll stays a troll. lol.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

You realize income is interdependant of prices, so everything would have been the same anyway ?

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Thats not entirely true, but certain items are less effected by inflation then others (mostly those high in supply). However new items specially those unsure of how rare they are would get insane inflated prices.

Not all real world rules cross over into the game world smoothly, but yes generally income does effect pricing of items particularly luxury items.

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Originally Posted by PandaTaru

I suppose only time and how the market will be in v2.0 will prove either of us right or wrong. And for having lived the change of money here in Europe, you're trying to explain how redenomination works and its advantages/disadvantages to the wrong person.

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I'm currently in Turkey visiting family as I so often do. Turkey had a major redenomination take place less than a decade ago. I lived through it. Experienced it as our basic equivalent of a dollar went from being 1 million Turkish Liras to 1 Turkish Lira. They dropped 6 digits.

Don't flatter yourself.

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Wonder why people don't put weight in what you say? Most people aren't stupid enough to take for granted the words of somebody who contradict himself every 3 posts. A troll stays a troll. lol.

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How trivial can you get? Honestly? Repeatedly calling me a troll at this point is only serving to belittle yourself.. I said I was tired of discussing this with people. I had enough of people who seemed to fail to grasp how redenomination would play out and decided to wait until it was officially confirmed.

I can't help that it was confirmed right after I said that lol.

Also, btw calling out people for being wrong after all isn't accusing them of anything other than that. I've been accused of trolling (still getting accused), insulting and being condescending while trying earnestly to help people see things more clearly.

Think what you'd like though. Whatever floats your boat.

Really, a huge amount of gil was created in the early days of the game when leves handed out massive amounts of gil. Most of the gil in the game was created in the first year. People who complain about Atomos spamming have no idea. lol ^^;;

This really is the only way to correct this.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Well looks like all is resolved. I'll go back pages and call out the people who were so adamantly wrong later when I'm actually on a PC. One guy even asked if I'd be willing to shove my foot in my mouth and post pics.

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You were the one who was adamant about it, I never said they weren't going to do it, all I said was that they'd be stupid to, and that hasn't changed.

What exactly does this accomplish? making things easier to read for the mathematically challenged or visually impaired? As far as I can see, SE is literally incurring a negative PR reaction for no tangible benefit.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

You were the one who was adamant about it, I never said they weren't going to do it, all I said was that they'd be stupid to, and that hasn't changed.

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lol fair enough.

Though I still disagree. They're quite smart for doing this. What they'd be stupid to do is not put up Topics posts and further explain the transition, ensuring it takes place as smoothly as possible with the wide majority understanding it.

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What exactly does this accomplish? making things easier to read for the mathematically challenged or visually impaired? As far as I can see, SE is literally incurring a negative PR reaction for no tangible benefit.

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Reducing needlessly inflated values. One benefit was already pointed out. People undercutting for 1 gil have no trouble doing so cuz 1 gil isn't worth crap.

Also, since yu're so keen on perception, they're making it so not nly each gil is worth something, but actually reaching a million means something.

Again, the PR reaction depends more on how they handle the transition rather than the transition itself.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

You were the one who was adamant about it, I never said they weren't going to do it, all I said was that they'd be stupid to, and that hasn't changed.

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.. redenomination changes nothing, only player perspective. Specially in this game system where you can do it all at the same time perfectly. He is 100% correct on that. Because players are humans it will take a bit before everything mellows out to realistic prices though (the new price in respect to the redenomination).

Waiting to read an official translation of that Yoshi-P post this morning. I don't trust Google translator's gibberish. :P