I hate to, but I think I put down healing for now. Please make it engaging again, SE.

Truthful, there is no entitlement for a response, no right for it. That doesn't mean we can't want one or ask for one or attempt to push for one.

They don't HAVE to do anything, they could close all the servers down and say "screw it". But if folks are paying for your service, communication is good and healthy and sustains a good relationship with customers, which in fairness the dev team are normally good for.

But it is a good way to keep away from disgruntled customers.

And coming from a customer complaints handling background for 5 years, a little bit of communication can go along way, it doesn't always have to be expansive. Sure you'll still get people who are self entitled still, but there's a difference between people who are disgruntled and those who are unrealistically entitled and difficult to please.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

So because I'm on mobile I really can't go and quote your other reply, but you asked the same thing. The argument of "you telling your fairy to do multiple things is making the fairy tale up to 10 seconds to use an ability" is completely irrelevant and it misses the problem entirely. If I use MY oGCD to tell fairy to use WD followed by fey blessing, or w/e, I should get both, immediately,after I press the buttons, regardless of what fairy is doing. If the game wants to treat them like pet GCDs then they need to go back on the pet hotbar (which is funny, because when they WERE on the pet hotbar they never had a delay even close to this horrid).

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This. I could heal multiple targets relatively easily and the fairy was decently responsive. Now she's not. It's that simple.

I'd be fine with the Fairy being nothing more than an origin point for a responsive set of fairy-themed skills. The delay can be pretty unforgiving currently and - worse - it really does not feel good to play.

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Originally Posted by Corbeau

I'd be fine with the Fairy being nothing more than an origin point for a responsive set of fairy-themed skills. The delay can be pretty unforgiving currently and - worse - it really does not feel good to play.

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That sounds like it might work. Making a set of skills that only be casted when the fairy is out. The odd thing is I don't remember having ghosting issues with the fairy before this expansion. Was ghosting abilities even a thing pre 5.0?

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Originally Posted by vtndll

That sounds like it might work. Making a set of skills that only be casted when the fairy is out. The odd thing is I don't remember having ghosting issues with the fairy before this expansion. Was ghosting abilities even a thing pre 5.0?

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The worst that might have happened by the end of stormblood was that you might have to wait 1-2 seconds for them to do a single ability. Other than that, fairy worked great. Did what you told WHEN you told them. Was really innovative, to press a button and something happens when you press that button, not 4-10 seconds later.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

And coming from a customer complaints handling background for 5 years, a little bit of communication can go along way, it doesn't always have to be expansive. Sure you'll still get people who are self entitled still, but there's a difference between people who are disgruntled and those who are unrealistically entitled and difficult to please.

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That bears resemblence in the tech support position Im in: We support so much we can only assume no complaints = it's working. Not true all the time, but thats why encourage people to contact call center or email if there's anything at all. If we do get a unusual complaint or many cases about the exact same thing we need to look into it, like how we have a old universal printer queue thats stuck in users profile and causes some headaches in our branch, but there are other, even bigger branches that use this one actively. Changing it would in theory affect even more users negatively than it would help ours, so we find workarounds and deal with the cases with sudden new default printers as it's quick to fix. Same with a lot of other little requests: Too small to be distributed to the whole fleet, but not big enough that I can't set up some custom driver settings, devices or scripts for them.

And in the same essence we are users dealing with work: Everyone can do their assigned job, but see the massive cumbersome documentation program everyone uses is lacking features that would make your specific task easier or just not a hassle to do. Like we're all part of the Health department, but I enjoyed have more choices in the way I approach a problem and that made my day easier so I apriciated applications that let me perform several tasks at once with powershell or wsl and even have an errand intern. Others might prefer or just need the more straightfoward type with no whistles and be happy with it, and one might be set on conducting a behavioral scoring analysis but really like to be challenged so we set up their profile to open a random tool and today they have do the work in Paint.

When rolling out big new changes it always follows days and months of users having trouble getting used to it, not have gotten instructions and "I much prefered the old one, because I knew it." Self-awareness not withstanding, after that we've been through directors, managers, pilot users, testgroups and made announcements. Can never reach everyone on a place that is running 24/7 , so do what we can with posters, emails, webpage headlines and write KBs prepare our call center for known issues. Biggest boon for me is working in the field, and go out and meet my users. Been meeting a lot of disgruntled users who got stuck on the phone in loops between tiers, asking to repeat the same steps and when I get there gives me an earful barrage of what they think. I always let them finish, see the air go out of them and after they often start with "I know it's not your fault, but I don't feel like Im being heard, you know?" I say I understand and ask if they can show me the problem, sometimes it's a quick-fix, something I know I could ring them up and give simple instructions or remote-control, but if they've been on the phone for hours and not gotten help I like to think it not only helps our image but most importantly they feel they are getting heard and acknowledged.

Thats why I find SE approach as delicate as a sledgehammer to put in nails on a wall made of plaster: It was the omnious "everyone and their mom wanted balance, from every corner of the world" and they said "Pet hotbar gave people leprosy and" no wait, they didn't say that, didnt say anything at all. We are playing these jobs, and wonder why they thought it would kill them to drop here or in an interview: "Man lemme tell you, balancing healers is hard, but we want to make sure they are fun. So since we won't have a new healer for x.0 we want to announce we're gonna do <5.0 changes> then have a Q&A, and set up a testshard with some training dummies and spawn some coincounters, chimeras and mist dragons with friendly NPCs for people to play with then want to hear what everyone thinks." If point was to bring more people to the role, then I think a fourth healer with their current mind on oGCD fascination wouldve done much better job than rain xanthous perspiration on everyone who already enjoyed the AST and SCH, and would like even more options on WHM.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Let's just throw a temper tantrum whenever we don't get exactly what we want.

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This is a point needed to be adressed, as my fight for return to 3.0 sometimes loses context. I had a simple wish for 5.0 Scholar: Fun.

A bit more fleshed out: "More fun than I had in 3.0". How does one achieved this? Nobody knows, and in fear of driving this thread off it's rails on semantics will say ll I know I had great nuf in 3.0 so I knew SE was capable. Had a bit of it in 4.0 and have none in 5.0. I would've taken anything that was a busy, versatile or unorthodox, or all three, you know, like 3.0 SCH. And evolution of the job that maybe took away, but added more to make way for bold new ideas and playstyles keeping me busy all the way back to Sastasha and beyond dots and arcanist tools so they paled in comparison. The potential was unlimited and I was ready for SE to blow my mind. Instead they threw some wet cloth my way that had already stagnated when I learned Broil had gotten it's second upgrade.

Sometimes on the "stages of grief" I drop to "bargaining" to try and see it from SE's point of view, but there is nothing to see and instead memories of Selene, pet hotbar, Arcanist and Cleric stance float to the surface and Im straight back up at "Anger."

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Finally, yes, you are a consumer and you get what you pay for - access to the game. You are not entitled to an explanation for every decision they make. Do you go to McDonalds and demand an explanation for why their BigMac is the way it is? Didn't think so.

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Is that a food analogy on a forum? Then lets go the whole way.

Im not worried about how the burger is made, cause they constantly barrage me with ads about how the cow was grown, lettuce raised and pickles picked right my local backyard in the greenest fields I've ever seen. What Im instead worried about is what I get and it's presented: ARR was new and unfamiliar, it was my first Happy Meal, only got better longer I ate and discovered the contents. Then HW was a fantastic Big Mac and seconds with cheeseburgers, good every time. SB started to supersize my coke and fries, while good was too much filler, the burger itself had it's meat but some taste and pickles had been taken off. I decided not to ask, because, hey, it's still somewhat good but noticed I dont go as often. Now Shadowbringer's story is a double big mac with Mcflurry at the end, really good and just right for a meal. Then afterwards when you come back for more they only give you a tray full of fries and throw two buns on top and says it's the only thing on the menu. Nothing but bland, unsalted, boring, tasteless filler with no condiments with no juicy meat or vegetables and I'm real sick of filler III.

Then I decided to complain, they used to serve nice and well-filling burgers here but now all they have are fries. I try to let them know "All you have is fries! You just broil it, there is no burger left!" and it's like I don't exist as I visit their open public shareholder meetings to try and ask them but MicDonalds with madness in their eyes don't even mention the absurd amounts of fries they are trying to push and instead talk about happy meal toys that is used up after a week and I feel they've lost their way or if they ever understood what made a good burger.

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Originally Posted by Corbeau

I'd be fine with the Fairy being nothing more than an origin point for a responsive set of fairy-themed skills. The delay can be pretty unforgiving currently and - worse - it really does not feel good to play.

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That is exactly what we had at the end of Stormblood: A Lily that reacted to whatever you pressed on the pet hotbar and did it almost immediately. I don't know if making Whispering Dawn instant and making it an Ability, further reducing synergy, was part of it, but the responsiveness was the best it'd ever been having seeing all her behavioural changes since ARR. No more getting impatient and pulling the boss before the tank.

More I keep thinking about it, and less SE deigns to divulge, Scholar just seems to be getting hand-me downs what with always suffering when they change something for Summoner: Removing job and class labels on skills and altering pets and then a month after realizing Scholar share the deep roots they just cut off. Change the pets for smn to work better ( I don't know, don't play it lots), then for some reason Scholar had to go along with it, losing a dimension of play and Selene all the while pet hotbar is still there! Same with Seraph. Have a hard time imagining Seraph had much work either: "Hey, Scholar wanted a third fairy right? let's use Bahamut-egi and Succor template. The bahamut-egi works, so no need to playtest."

Well, suppose now that only Ressurection is the only Arcanist skill left they can only bungle that up. The Spongebob image macro comes to mind: "We did it, Patrick! We saved Summoner from Arcanist! It only took three expansions and setting fire to Scholar!"

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

[...]
I'm pretty damn sure a lot of blms will gain a 'victim mentality' if blm was changed to be like this
[...]

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SCH plays essentially the same as Stormblood SCH. All you're missing is an occasional Broil replacer and an on-cd Shadowflare. Having either or both of those does not solve the problem.

As for your BLM changes, of course it will be bad. You're ignoring an entire role worth of responsibilities (healing) that the BLM does not have to care about. Ignoring the healing part of the healers seems to be a growing trend around here.

Broil will be your most used spell anywhere in the game, by its very nature. It's a filler. If you think this is not the case in TEA, take another look.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

mcdonald and even car manufacturers make their decisions not only from share holders as previous people said but also based on people feedbacks,their concerns and surveys they conduct on their products.

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Yes, they take feedback. So does SE.

Neither of those companies owe you an explanation.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

So because I'm on mobile I really can't go and quote your other reply, but you asked the same thing. The argument of "you telling your fairy to do multiple things is making the fairy tale up to 10 seconds to use an ability" is completely irrelevant and it misses the problem entirely. If I use MY oGCD to tell fairy to use WD followed by fey blessing, or w/e, I should get both, immediately,after I press the buttons, regardless of what fairy is doing. If the game wants to treat them like pet GCDs then they need to go back on the pet hotbar (which is funny, because when they WERE on the pet hotbar they never had a delay even close to this horrid).

The only punishment you should ever have for misusing your resources is not having that resource later if/when you need it. You do not punish a WHM by using benediction->tetra on the same target by not having that tetra wait to go off 4-5 seconds later, they're punished by needing that tetra later and not having it. The same should apply to any resource. If someone manages their pet badly and uses an ability when it isn't needed, then their punishment should be not having that ability later when they need it.

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But it's not a random delay as you portray it (e.g. "It can take, and I timed this, up to 10 seconds for it to use an ability"), nor is it broken. It's a fundamental misunderstanding on your part on how the fairy works.

Whether you should or shouldn't get the effects immediately is another discussion that has balance implications: should the fairy's abilities be instant?

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Yes, they take feedback. So does SE.

Neither of those companies owe you an explanation.

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And you don't have a right to tell people that they don't deserve one. Case closed

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Originally Posted by Sloprano

This is a point needed to be adressed, as my fight for return to 3.0 sometimes loses context. I had a simple wish for 5.0 Scholar: Fun.

A bit more fleshed out: "More fun than I had in 3.0". How does one achieved this? Nobody knows, and in fear of driving this thread off it's rails on semantics will say ll I know I had great nuf in 3.0 so I knew SE was capable. Had a bit of it in 4.0 and have none in 5.0. I would've taken anything that was a busy, versatile or unorthodox, or all three, you know, like 3.0 SCH. And evolution of the job that maybe took away, but added more to make way for bold new ideas and playstyles keeping me busy all the way back to Sastasha and beyond dots and arcanist tools so they paled in comparison. The potential was unlimited and I was ready for SE to blow my mind. Instead they threw some wet cloth my way that had already stagnated when I learned Broil had gotten it's second upgrade.

Sometimes on the "stages of grief" I drop to "bargaining" to try and see it from SE's point of view, but there is nothing to see and instead memories of Selene, pet hotbar, Arcanist and Cleric stance float to the surface and Im straight back up at "Anger."

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I've expressed my opinion on different aspects of 3.0 before, I'm just gonna say it for context: Cleric Stance was cool, dots were bloat.

As for why you're not having fun, is job design the only explanation?
You now have years of experience playing the job. How much of it is fatigue or nostalgia and how much of it is actual class design?

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Originally Posted by Sloprano

Is that a food analogy on a forum? Then lets go the whole way.

[...]

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I've clarified in a later reply what the point of the analogy was. I don't know why you all get so hung up on expanding on this after I've already clarified in a later post that it's not an all-encompassing analogy.

I'm just going to assume you can't address the point, so you expand on irrelevant stuff - until someone explains to me why they are entitled to the explanation and reasoning behind design changes.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

I've expressed my opinion on different aspects of 3.0 before, I'm just gonna say it for context: Cleric Stance was cool, dots were bloat.

As for why you're not having fun, is job design the only explanation?
You now have years of experience playing the job. How much of it is fatigue or nostalgia and how much of it is actual class design?



I've clarified in a later reply what the point of the analogy was. I don't know why you all get so hung up on expanding on this after I've already clarified in a later post that it's not an all-encompassing analogy.

I'm just going to assume you can't address the point, so you expand on irrelevant stuff - until someone explains to me why they are entitled to the explanation and reasoning behind design changes.

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People have already numerous times explained their reasons for wanting a reply. Yet you sit here and give the same poor linear response "You aren't entitled to an explanation" each and every time. You don't deserve any more reasoning or responses given regarding to your statement.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

I've clarified in a later reply what the point of the analogy was. I don't know why you all get so hung up on expanding on this after I've already clarified in a later post that it's not an all-encompassing analogy.

I'm just going to assume you can't address the point, so you expand on irrelevant stuff - until someone explains to me why they are entitled to the explanation and reasoning behind design changes.

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Cool, but I already addressed it. You make the false assumption that people feel they are /entitled/ to a reply, this is a strawman (at least, I don't recall seeing anybody saying they're entitled, certainly not in the post you were replying to). People /want/ a reply, and a reply would be the right thing to do. And I've detailed why it is a good idea for them to reply and lent my former experience working in handling customer complaints, especially when it comes to disgruntled customers, because ultimately that's what it is: customers disgruntled with a service and the forums is by which the means the complaint is issued. They of course don't /have/ to do anything. But I think it is a shame when they've done such a fantastic job with Shadowbringers and have been great for communicating and addressing many other issues/complaints. I by no means hold ill thought towards the dev team and genuinely think they take the job seriously and want to make the game as best they can with their resources (it's a damn big game with lots of different parts to be responsible for). It's just a shame that whilst they are good at communication, they're not showing that here, which can be a red flag. Because even if the dev team disagree with the complaints, they tend to say so, eg: 3.0 and 4.0 MCH issues.

Also, talking of flawed analogies, an earlier reply to me:

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

I don't know why you all choose to bring up so many flawed analogies. Your TP analogy fails because it's nothing like healing. Healing is single target, aoe, affected by mechanics, affected by other players and has much more severe consequences when you fail. TP management is completely individual.

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And in the same post you did not address the points my analogy was used to illustrate so I had to make a follow up post to draw harder on those points. Points you did not address afterwards, or after I made follow up posts on the same points. Not that I am entitled to your response, but it's just interesting to see the shoe being on the other foot.

And, welcome aboard the poor analogy club.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

SCH plays essentially the same as Stormblood SCH. All you're missing is an occasional Broil replacer and an on-cd Shadowflare. Having either or both of those does not solve the problem.

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Your kidding right? Right?

In case your not, i'll go over what is so different about SB sch compared to ShB Sch (and there are way better Schs on this forum than me btw):

Healing;
-Critlo deployed, granted it was pretty busted with what it allowed to mitigate but certainly a loss on our healing front
-Physick getting further irrelevant they could've done something with it made it actually useful instead they decided to make changes which make it even worse
-Sacred soil being less desirable while Shadowflare was up due to cancellation between the two skils.

-Rest of healing kit relatively untouched

Pet(Yes it deserves its own section);
-Faster responsiveness that made Smns jealous of our better pet system
-Fey Caress(AoE esuna), silent dawn(on demand silence very useful in PotD/HoH), (please forgive me i forgotten the name) magic resistance, Fey Wind(minor speed up) removed
-Selene made a glorified glamour
-Embrace moved from on demand targeted to auto (basically from you heal this target to fairy looking at you like i do what i want fool)
-Loss of macroing fairy to skills
-Rouse removed so no more buffing the fairy
-Fairy abilities moved from pet ogcd to pet gcd

Dps;
-Loss of shadowflare thus no longer connected to sacred soil so decision making reduced
-Loss of Miasma and Miasma II, 2 different DoTs with different timers so less to manage, less decision making between Dps and heals
-Loss of Bane, no longer being able to spread DoTs has the opposite effect of getting to heal more now you are forced (if you want to DoT everything) to DoT individually forcing more gcds on dps than heals (or you know just AoW spam if group big enough)
-Addition of AoW, a up close player centred AoE with no additional effect but dmg

That is a lot that was taken away or made worse, The healing and pet stuff added in ShB are unnecessary in 99% of content (heck across all 3 healers this can be applied to), in HW the additions to the healing kit felt very useful and needed for the content being released, in SB again felt very useful and needed for content less so than in HW but their impact was very there, in ShB if you removed every single addition to the healing kits on all 3 healers you would be able to clear everything fine all the way up to TEA, the single piece of content where Recitation, Seraph, Neutral Sect, Intersection, Horoscope, Afflatus, Temperance feel like they are needed and were designed for. That to me makes me feel like the dev team(collectively not just the job designers) do not know what to do for healers, if they want to reduce button bloat take away ogcd heals because we have to many already so much so that they are invalidating gcd heals(again very poor design decisions).

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

As for your BLM changes, of course it will be bad. You're ignoring an entire role worth of responsibilities (healing) that the BLM does not have to care about. Ignoring the healing part of the healers seems to be a growing trend around here.

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Yet i gave blm something new to care about non infinite mp, forcing Lucid dreaming useage on top of longer casts, it was also an example of changing a job drastically that would cause a noticable backlash ala Sch and Ast, it was not meant to be a 1 for 1 example you silly goose, if it had i would used Whm and you know what i will:

-All healing afflatus skills removed
-Glare now gives 1 stack of buds
-3 buds = 1 lily, you need to use the new skill bloom to convert which requires >50% of a target's hp to be restored to activate
-New skill sprout makes a party member as target needed for bloom
-Sprout only becomes available after using Cure III
-3 lilies needed to use Misery
-Misery buffed due to new requirement
-Tetragrammaton removed
-Benediction now has 10 min cd
-Cure, Cure II and Cure III traits removed
-Cure II cannot be cast without casting Cure and Cure III cannot be cast without casting Cure II, potency increase for all three
-Mp cost of Cure III reduced and no longer an AoE
-Assize range and dmg lowered significantly (5 yalms and 10 potency), mp refresh removed
-Freecast cd lowered to 1 min, duration lowered to 4s
-Holy losses stun effect
-Medica and Medica II potency increased
-Temperance no longer reduces dmg taken instead gives freedom to cast on the move, duration lasts 6s
-Asylum range increased to 100 yalms
-Raise mp cost reduced to 500 mp
-Swiftcast removed from cross role

Sounds fun right?, I'm sure most Whms would be happy and content with that right? can you stop trying to strawman and actually address the point of, if wide spread changes happen why are we not allowed to voice our opinion and ask for a response from SE? Acknowledgement goes a long way to soothe rising tempers even if it is not going to be favourable, Anger -> Disappointment is a lot faster when told earlier or do we need another male Viera fiasco(literally could've said locked to female only at Paris, yea anger would've happened regardless but would've been far less volatile due to keeping it hushed as long as they did) before you see it?

I guess to add, I wasn't exactly too hot on SB SCH anyway, but it still had enough to redeem it to stop it from ruining my enjoyment of it, hence I was not disgruntled and just hoped ShB would add more of what I liked about SCH, in a way it did and didn't at the same time and took away the part that kept me from losing my enjoyment of it.

But the abilities from SB I actually miss are: Bane, Fey Caress, Fey Wind, Miasma II, Miasma, Shadowflare, Silent Dusk. That's 7 abilities, 6 of which aren't related to healing, and 1 of which is niche. With the downtime that's grown bigger since HW, that has an impact going SB to ShB. If we had less downtime, it'd feel like less of a hit, but the game is designed in such a way that if we are doing well, then there's downtime for healers. But the game feels like it was designed so that healers would contribute as part of DPSing. This made sense to me and I liked it and it is appropriate because healer roles in FF titles aren't constantly healing anyway.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

I guess to add, I wasn't exactly too hot on SB SCH anyway, but it still had enough to redeem it to stop it from ruining my enjoyment of it, hence I was not disgruntled and just hoped ShB would add more of what I liked about SCH, in a way it did and didn't at the same time and took away the part that kept me from losing my enjoyment of it.

But the abilities from SB I actually miss are: Bane, Fey Caress, Fey Wind, Miasma II, Miasma, Shadowflare, Silent Dusk. That's 7 abilities, 6 of which aren't related to healing, and 1 of which is niche. With the downtime that's grown bigger since HW, that has an impact going SB to ShB. If we had less downtime, it'd feel like less of a hit, but the game is designed in such a way that if we are doing well, then there's downtime for healers. But the game feels like it was designed so that healers would contribute as part of DPSing. This made sense to me and I liked it and it is appropriate because healer roles in FF titles aren't constantly healing anyway.

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What I miss most about AST from SB is my Time extender abilities with the different variety of card buffs. Tank needs defense? Bole. Low on MP? Ewer. Wanna go fast? Arrow. Etc. It felt good knowing you could deal with a situation like that. Drawing the right card you wanted felt rewarding. There's just no feeling of being rewarded when you draw cards. Draw one, toss it, rinse and repeat. I still have no idea if they ever plan to rework undraw or just continue to make it utterly useless.

I will say that I miss Selene’s support oriented abilities, especially Fey Wind.

It’s the same situation as with Bard and Dancer though; SE is like ‘well Astrologian can buff the party so Scholars can’t’.

But like, why not? It’s not like if Scholar still has Fey Wind everyone would be like ‘This is too much like Astrologian!’. I don’t really understand why the devs are so averse to a potential function overlap, especially when it’s between two jobs within the same role (which generally are going to be expected to do the same thing anyway at their core, like a healer doing healing and support).

In terms of the DPS abilities for Scholar I think if Shadow Flare returned I’d personally like if it was just the slow and maybe another effect like damage dealt debuff to enemies within in it. I worry that if it was a GCD that you’d be expected to forgo Sacred Soil entirely for more DPS uptime, since it’s not like Sacred Soil is our most valuable Aetherflow skill in the first place. I can take or leave whether we get more DoTs but my personal preference would be one or two low potency DoTs with debuff effects than a handful of just damage over time skills. And I mean, considering both the DoT based DPS jobs predominantly apply two DoTs with one ability (Tri-Disaster / Iron Jaws), it’d a bit weird for a healer to have even more DoTs than the actual DoT DPS, especially if they existed solely for damage.

I’ll be honest, the delay for Fairy abilities has never been an issue for me. I kinda like having to consider and plan using them so far in advance to when the effect is actually applied. That said, I get why so many people dislike it, especially because ghosting can occur often. Personally I think the best option for the Fairy is to follow suit with Summoner and make them actual personal GCDs. It would give us more reason to use GCD for something other than Broil, and if they’re moved to the GCD it means they can get stronger/more interesting effects which will make the fairy feel more valuable and less like a weak regen. Like maybe they could make Embrace like a Cure II heal bomb if it’s on the GCD with a cooldown like Egi Assaults, or they could make Fey Blessing also grant the old Fey Wind effect along with the Medica.

I want to talk about Astrologian too because it seems to kinda get forgotten about sometimes, but my post is already too long. Basically I think the seals system is really fun, but I don’t get why we couldn’t have both the seal mechanics and the old card effects, even if there were adjustments for balance. Or they could have even made it so the cards grant different effects depending on Sect. Like maybe in Diurnal they’re more active like damage increases or regens, but Nocturnal is more passive/defensive? Like Diurnal Balance could increase damage dealt but Nocturnal Balance could decrease damage taken? Maybe Bole could give an increased healing effect in Nocturnal but a regen effect in Diurnal. They could even make it so using Neutral Sect gives both effects at once.

I feel like, for me it’s hard to quit healing because I can see the ways it could be really fun even just based on the current systems. But then, it always ends with the conclusion ‘it could be fun...if they put in the work’. And I can get why it feels like they aren’t really willing to put in the work. The devs seems to really struggle with balancing and designing anything that’s not a pure DPS, which is evidenced by the issues that healers and ranged DPS (which was generally considered a support oriented role prior to Shadowbringers) have been facing since the expansion launched (and have arguably existed since 3.0 onward). And after 4 (6?) years of these same problems persisting, it makes sense that people are frustrated by the devs sweeping it under the carpet and expecting us to wait for the next expansion roulette to find out which GCD abilities we’re losing to be replaced with 438393 pure healing oGCDs in a battle system where most healing is covered by just 1

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Neither of those companies owe you an explanation.

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you are right,they don't owe me an explanation, they owe the community one.
the community that raises complains about the healers issues that the 5.0 changes caused and never received a reply after talking about it for several months, not even "we will look into that" response like summoner has received about the egi glamour system.
while a full length explanation is unnecessary ,they do need to give a reply of "we read your complains and we will examine them" or "those issues will not be taken care of cause X/Y/Z" simple as that to give the community comfort.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

But it's not a random delay as you portray it (e.g. "It can take, and I timed this, up to 10 seconds for it to use an ability"), nor is it broken. It's a fundamental misunderstanding on your part on how the fairy works.

Whether you should or shouldn't get the effects immediately is another discussion that has balance implications: should the fairy's abilities be instant?

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I did not label it as random or intended. I labeled it as the delay is a major problem and it's broken, which it is. It's absurd that you have to wait for an effect to go off after you use an oGCD. whether that is intended or not, it's broken ridiculous design and it needs to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Neither of those companies owe you an explanation.

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We don't owe them our money, either, and this would not be the first MMO that I've quit due to deteriorating class mechanics leeching the fun out of healing.

It’s hard to tell if LariaKirin is genuinely trolling or just a sycophant, either way ignore them since all their arguments are in bad faith and just to get a rise out of people.

I think I'm most annoyed at the feeling of being ignored by SE.

BRDs complained about lack of support and had small support effects added back to their songs.
SAMs complained that losing Hagakure was bad for gameplay and that was added back.
SCH at least had ED returned to it (but at the same time, pet problems were made worse with the added delay?).

AST? "We've read your questions, but you only wanted Balance so you're keeping this new system that's all Balance. Also here are some bandaid fixes and buffs to make the job playable again, please play it." Except still nobody is playing the job because everyone's already jumped ship.

https://i.imgur.com/3Ze8cQF.png

Literally last place.

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Originally Posted by AmurT

https://i.imgur.com/3Ze8cQF.png

Literally last place.

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Not even a 1/3 of Sch kinda pitiful really especially since it is the least restricted category of 3 healers for 2 healer spots, all Dps vie for 2 spots (in a traditional group going after the 1% party bonus per role) with a 1/3 or 1/4 for 1 slot and then 1/9 for the other slot and the 4 tanks vie for 2 tank spots. A healthier balance for healers would need Ast to have another 2k parses minimum, this would still show there might be some problems but nothing too major but as it stands it needs a serious looking at at why people are not using it.

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Originally Posted by AmurT

I think I'm most annoyed at the feeling of being ignored by SE.

BRDs complained about lack of support and had small support effects added back to their songs.
SAMs complained that losing Hagakure was bad for gameplay and that was added back.
SCH at least had ED returned to it (but at the same time, pet problems were made worse with the added delay?).

AST? "We've read your questions, but you only wanted Balance so you're keeping this new system that's all Balance. Also here are some bandaid fixes and buffs to make the job playable again, please play it." Except still nobody is playing the job because everyone's already jumped ship.

https://i.imgur.com/3Ze8cQF.png

Literally last place.

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And by that, AST is out DPSing WHM.... again.

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Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

And by that, AST is out DPSing WHM.... again.

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As the most-played job in a game with over a dozen from which to choose, WHM evidently has a much higher enjoyment factor than AST, the least-played.

Problem is, we ASKED (begged) for more enjoyment, not numbers, and instead Squeenix bumped up a few numbers and called it a day.

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Originally Posted by Side-Eye

As the most-played job in a game with over a dozen from which to choose, WHM evidently has a much higher enjoyment factor than AST, the least-played.

Problem is, we ASKED (begged) for more enjoyment, not numbers, and instead Squeenix bumped up a few numbers and called it a day.

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Agreed, one thing I'd love brought back even if cards stay the same is Royal Road. That alone would help it I think. I also miss the healing on Lady and damage on Lord effects.

It still though underscores that WHM is back to where it was in SB after its utility was stripped, no utility and not top DPS from the same treatment to buffing astro. At least this time lilies aren't a useless mechanic with Secret of the Lily 2 triggering less than 5% of the time on aoe gcd heals.

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Originally Posted by AmurT

I think I'm most annoyed at the feeling of being ignored by SE.

SCH at least had ED returned to it (but at the same time, pet problems were made worse with the added delay?).

https://i.imgur.com/3Ze8cQF.png

Literally last place.

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Yeah, they did add back ED which was a great. Only issue is that it was over a month after 5.0 and 39 levels higher than it used to be. Screwing new players wanting some thought and pacing from their skill acquisition and any synced dungeons out of another tool to stave off boredom. As for the fairies, up until end of SB their AI was lovable, but could have some prioritizing issues causing delays, then they made commands on the hotbar close to immdiately. 5.0 made them oGCD hotbarskills that for some reason had even longer delay, before adding a hardcoded two second delay after summoning our cornerstone, level 80 hype spell Seraph before she performs Consolation. Who still continues to put skills on cooldown without using them. I chalk this up to Scholar sharing code with SMN and SE can't be bother to look into it, forget at one point Scholar inherited from Arcanist or debunk these myths.

That graph just looks sad and I don't even play the job. "Everyone didn't want useless cards" feels awfully quaint. Where are these "everyone", surely they weren't dps mains complaning their ASTs didnt always get Balance to give them.

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Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

And by that, AST is out DPSing WHM.... again.

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Heck Sch is beating Whm now, So the most played job is also the weakest in the role.

It couldn't possibly be something other than numbers that is driving people away /s

My hope (as slim as it is) is SE would actually take a look at what they have done, remember ShB was all about bringing Balance to healers and the healer with the lowest utility is also the weakest.

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Originally Posted by AmurT

I think I'm most annoyed at the feeling of being ignored by SE.

BRDs complained about lack of support and had small support effects added back to their songs.
SAMs complained that losing Hagakure was bad for gameplay and that was added back.
SCH at least had ED returned to it (but at the same time, pet problems were made worse with the added delay?).

AST? "We've read your questions, but you only wanted Balance so you're keeping this new system that's all Balance. Also here are some bandaid fixes and buffs to make the job playable again, please play it." Except still nobody is playing the job because everyone's already jumped ship.

https://i.imgur.com/3Ze8cQF.png

Literally last place.

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Looking at this just makes me hang my head. AST kit as far as healing goes with Durinel Sect feels great. Even with it's kit and the potential RDPS being higher than other healers, it is still the least played healer by a large margin. "We don't wanna change the card system because people like it now" Oh do they? Huh... Even after all the buffs given to AST, I feel like these "People" were a small majority of people.
I don't remember anyone asking to have our time extender buffs taken away so why did this change happen?
I started out as a Black mage main that went to AST main when I unlocked the class. I loved it ever since, as time goes by I feel myself playing it less and less. Eventually I'm going to get to the point where all that passion I had for the class is just gonna die. I rather see this current card system deleted entirely just because I've grown numb to its play style and you wanna know the sad thing about it is? I won't miss it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmurT

I think I'm most annoyed at the feeling of being ignored by SE.

BRDs complained about lack of support and had small support effects added back to their songs.
SAMs complained that losing Hagakure was bad for gameplay and that was added back.
SCH at least had ED returned to it (but at the same time, pet problems were made worse with the added delay?).

AST? "We've read your questions, but you only wanted Balance so you're keeping this new system that's all Balance. Also here are some bandaid fixes and buffs to make the job playable again, please play it." Except still nobody is playing the job because everyone's already jumped ship.

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Even better examples would be NIN, which complained about low DPS and carpal tunnel oGCDs, and got a massive rework in 5.1. Or SAM's Shoha being radically reworked in 5.1 so that its level-80 capstone wasn't completely useless.

Meanwhile, AST's card system still sucks harder than a factory full of vacuum cleaners, SCH's 60/70/80 capstones all have anti-synergy with each other, and Square doesn't care.

But if you want hard proof that Square only cares about the DPS, and to a lesser extent, the tank classes, consider the 10/31 Live Letter.

This is what they said about Ninja:

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Ninja received many significant changes across the board.

Mudra and Ninjutsu were changed into GCD actions to preserve the playstyle of using Ninjutsu, while lowering the job’s busyness and reliance on low network latency.

Ninjutsu can no longer be weaved between weaponskills, which reduces the number of actions over time, but Ninjutsu potencies have been increased accordingly to balance the damage output.

Shadow Fang has also been changed to reduce busyness. It is no longer part of a combo and will now inflict a DoT by itself.

Trick Attack has been adjusted to balance out the increased personal damage, as well as improve its usability.

Ninja’s new playstyle can be seen in the video, so be sure to check it out!

Though it may take some time for long-time ninja players to adjust to these changes, we hope that you’ll be able to enjoy ninja’s new skill rotation, without the stress of excessive busyness!

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This is what they said about all three healers:

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White Mage / Scholar

White mage and scholar mainly received quality of life adjustments.

Astrologian

MP consumption has been lowered, personal damage output has been increased, and Minor Arcana has been adjusted to reduce busyness. Additionally, changes such as Collective Unconscious adjustments have improved the effectiveness of damage reduction.

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NIN, which is 1/10 of the DPS role, got an entire paragraph and 17:56 minutes of video. SCH and WHM together, comprising 2/3 of the healer role, got one sentence, and as far as I could see, no time in the video (of course, I don't speak moonrune, so I may have missed something).

I wish SCH got Ruin IV, with chance to proc for every tick of fairy meter spent. It'd have a nice circulation of resources then.

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Originally Posted by Punslinger

NIN, which is 1/10 of the DPS role, got an entire paragraph and 17:56 minutes of video. SCH and WHM together, comprising 2/3 of the healer role, got one sentence, and as far as I could see, no time in the video (of course, I don't speak moonrune, so I may have missed something).

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you forgot to mention that the QOL adjustment they said they will give to WHM and SCH were actually asylum radios got bigger(nobody asked) and SCH seraph now have a delay of 2 seconds after summoning her (if its broken ,break it some more so no one will notice and did i forget to mention that SMN bahamut had his dreadwyrm wave being able to cast immediately upon summon) huge QOL improvements for healers.....

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Originally Posted by Sloprano

That graph just looks sad and I don't even play the job. "Everyone didn't want useless cards" feels awfully quaint. Where are these "everyone", surely they weren't dps mains complaning their ASTs didnt always get Balance to give them.

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I love how the trend shifted from "Nobody wants these cards" when they were unbalanced as heck, to "Nobody wants this class" now that AST is as entertaining as a dead crab.

But hey, SE said these cards are perfect so obviously we're just wrong for not liking them.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

you forgot to mention that the QOL adjustment they said they will give to WHM and SCH were actually asylum radios got bigger(nobody asked)

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I remember seeing more than a few people asking for the radius of AoE spells / Shields to be normalized and expanded. How many threads have been started about those DPS who stand JUST outside of the area.

It was a problem in the bigger model bosses / mobs where you could Assylum the tank on the edge of it and get none of the DPS inside of it either. So yeah, the Assylum area change was a pretty decent, significant QoL change.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I remember seeing more than a few people asking for the radius of AoE spells / Shields to be normalized and expanded. How many threads have been started about those DPS who stand JUST outside of the area.

It was a problem in the bigger model bosses / mobs where you could Assylum the tank on the edge of it and get none of the DPS inside of it either. So yeah, the Assylum area change was a pretty decent, significant QoL change.

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oh didn't know that,i haven't seen threads/post talking about wishing asylum was bigger.

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Originally Posted by Punslinger

NIN, which is 1/10 of the DPS role, got an entire paragraph and 17:56 minutes of video. SCH and WHM together, comprising 2/3 of the healer role, got one sentence, and as far as I could see, no time in the video (of course, I don't speak moonrune, so I may have missed something).

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Every LL, healers never get in depth adjusment presentation.
Is it because they think people don't care ? Is it because they themself don't really care about the healer state or their healer community ? Do they think healers doesn't matter as much as a DPS to deserve a full presentation.

I have no answer, but we always barely get one or two sentence about our rework/adjusments compare to others class. It somehow became normal.
Even when they do ajusment, they stay silent about it. They do it, but don't "debate" about it. "We made this because community..." - "We made this because we though". None of that stuff.

Yup. The usual I see.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Yup. The usual I see.

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Do you actually have anything to add or are you just going to act all high and mighty?

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Do you actually have anything to add or are you just going to act all high and mighty?

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Probably the latter. One of the few people around these parts that refuse to engage in an actual conversation and instead resort to passive aggressive posts.