Dragoon pet

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Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo

I didn't mean a "literal" crit-master. I just meant the idea of Dragoon, not having a pet, was nothing new. The terminology has been around since, like....the 18th century, and it had little to NOTHING to do w/ dragons. So, I'd say a decade old idea is hardly considered "OLD" by comparison.

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Context and the conversation








your head
whoosh

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FF has a history of being an MMO with XI-
In XI, DRG had a wyvern pet
Ergo, in the context of FF, MMOs, and DRGs, pets are the standard and let's never do it again.

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Originally Posted by Hachi-Roku

Context and the conversation








your head
whoosh

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FF has a history of being an MMO with XI-
In XI, DRG had a wyvern pet
Ergo, in the context of FF, MMOs, and DRGs, pets are the standard and let's never do it again.

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This is not hard to follow, Khal_Drogo.

We've never had a non-pet Dragoon class in a Final Fantasy MMO, and we really would like to see how a new flavor works out.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

This is not hard to follow, Khal_Drogo.

We've never had a non-pet Dragoon class in a Final Fantasy MMO, and we really would like to see how a new flavor works out.

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Ok, now we're just splitting hairs...."we've never had DRG w/o a pet in an FF MMO?" Really? That's your response? We've almost NEVER had an FF MMO. This is the 2nd one, and you already wanna scrap something that "barely got it's feet wet?"

FFXI had lots of time to explore the DRG class, and it went from being "best DD in the game" to "a complete joke" and then all the way back to "awesome" again, although that seems to have been after you quit the game. It's a great job, it's fun, interesting, and adorable, it makes sense in the context of FFXI, but /it's been done to death/ and there are other, easier-to-balance ways of making Dragoon in FFXIV an interesting job that stands on its own merits.

Oh, and, while we're splitting hairs...

"Dragoons", historically, were light cavalry. So...

"Dragoon as a pet job" actually is centuries old, not a decade old. B)

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Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo

Ok, now we're just splitting hairs...."we've never had DRG w/o a pet in an FF MMO?" Really? That's your response? We've almost NEVER had an FF MMO. This is the 2nd one, and you already wanna scrap something that "barely got it's feet wet?"

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Barely? Uh...

When was Dragoon introduced? Was it with Chains of Promathia? That expansion was released in 2004.

That's nearly a decade, and I think you really need to get your head checked.

To reiterate, we're getting other pet classes eventually. Summoner and Beastmaster.

If you can't handle the heat, get outta the kitchen. The poll's overwhelmingly against Dragoon being made into a pet class.

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

FFXI had lots of time to explore the DRG class, and it went from being "best DD in the game" to "a complete joke" and then all the way back to "awesome" again, although that seems to have been after you quit the game. It's a great job, it's fun, interesting, and adorable, it makes sense in the context of FFXI, but /it's been done to death/ and there are other, easier-to-balance ways of making Dragoon in FFXIV an interesting job that stands on its own merits.

Oh, and, while we're splitting hairs...

"Dragoons", historically, were light cavalry. So...

"Dragoon as a pet job" actually is centuries old, not a decade old. B)

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Well, first of all, I was referring to the *terminology, "Dragoon," not what it entails. Secondly, the idea of Dragoon having a WYVERN pet is the new one, not just a "pet" in general, so that point is moot. Either way, not everyone that plays XIV, played XI; so, just because you've had your fill of something, doesn't mean those experiences should be withheld from the rest of the world.

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Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo

Well, first of all, I was referring to the *terminology, "Dragoon," not what it entails. Secondly, the idea of Dragoon having a WYVERN pet is the new one, not just a "pet" in general, so that point is moot. Either way, not everyone that plays XIV, played XI; so, just because you've had your fill of something, doesn't mean those experiences should be withheld from the rest of the world.

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Having a Dragoon with a Wyvern for eight years is long enough to formulate a concrete dataset that suggests that it isn't recommended for the format Final Fantasy XIV is using.

Seriously, when will people stop using Final Fantasy XI as a baseline guide for classes in XIV?

Never? Oh, alright. I'll just urinate in your morning coffee, then.

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Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo

Either way, not everyone that plays XIV, played XI; so, just because you've had your fill of something, doesn't mean those experiences should be withheld from the rest of the world.

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I disagree with this- nobody should have to suffer through the years where DRG was a horrible job.

At the risk of being railed on I just wanted to throw my opinion out there. I have stated this in other threads, but I loved the dragoon from XI and would like to see something similar in XIV. I loved my pet wyvern and felt it added to my identity as a dragoon. I also liked the added challenge of trying to keep my pet alive as long as it does not turn into my main focus. That being said, it doesn't have to be exactly the same though. I also like the idea of making it more like Freya from IX.
I can see how balancing it just right might be difficult, but I disagree with those that say it wouldn't work in this game.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Having a Dragoon with a Wyvern for eight years is long enough to formulate a concrete dataset that suggests that it isn't recommended for the format Final Fantasy XIV is using.

Seriously, when will people stop using Final Fantasy XI as a baseline guide for classes in XIV?

Never? Oh, alright. I'll just urinate in your morning coffee, then.

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Um...are my arguments not challenging enough for you, so you decided to argue w/ yourself?

That's what, virtually, everyone's argument in here IS...It "SUCKED" in XI, so it shouldn't be used here w/ XIV. So, it's alright to reference XI as a baseline as long as it's being used to further your own agenda?

What is that called....it's right on the tip of my tongue. Oh ya! It's called being a hypocrite.

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Originally Posted by KaynelD

At the risk of being railed on I just wanted to throw my opinion out there. I have stated this in other threads, but I loved the dragoon from XI and would like to see something similar in XIV. I loved my pet wyvern and felt it added to my identity as a dragoon. I also liked the added challenge of trying to keep my pet alive as long as it does not turn into my main focus. That being said, it doesn't have to be exactly the same though. I also like the idea of making it more like Freya from IX.
I can see how balancing it just right might be difficult, but I disagree with those that say it wouldn't work in this game.

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Well... I don't think anyone's saying "pet jobs suck and will never work", I know I'm -definitely- looking forward to their availability in FFXIV.

I just don't think Dragoon is the right place to introduce pet job mechanics just because it worked that way in FFXI. It doesn't make sense IC /or/ mechanically.

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Originally Posted by KaynelD

At the risk of being railed on I just wanted to throw my opinion out there. I have stated this in other threads, but I loved the dragoon from XI and would like to see something similar in XIV. I loved my pet wyvern and felt it added to my identity as a dragoon. I also liked the added challenge of trying to keep my pet alive as long as it does not turn into my main focus. That being said, it doesn't have to be exactly the same though. I also like the idea of making it more like Freya from IX.
I can see how balancing it just right might be difficult, but I disagree with those that say it wouldn't work in this game.

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If you want something similar, then advocate for an "original Dragoon of Final Fantasy" with Drakes and Wyverns being exclusive mounts for the class. That way, Yoshi-P won't have to worry about altering the job to suit the desires of the few.

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Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo

Um...are my arguments not challenging enough for you, so you decided to argue w/ yourself?

That's what, virtually, everyone's argument in here IS...It "SUCKED" in XI, so it shouldn't be used here w/ XIV. So, it's alright to reference XI as a baseline as long as it's being used to further your own agenda?

What is that called....it's right on the tip of my tongue. Oh ya! It's called being a hypocrite.

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And I wasn't even interested in referencing Final Fantasy XI. I want FFXIV to be its own game, not another XI-2. This is the precise reason why I am tired of seeing people try to push the FFXI perspective on XIV.

If there's ever going to be one aspect of FFXI I want carried over to XIV, it'll be the summon system and Garuda. But after seeing the concept art for Garuda in FFXIV, I can safely assume I won't be able to have her at my beck and call at any time. XD

No thanks to having a pet with Dragoon job. I didn't even like it in FFXI because it really took away from what a Dragoon/Lancer was in previous FF titles.

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

Whoops, which FF was DRG a positional crit-master in? I must have missed that one.

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I'm going to go with Kain from Final Fantasy 4, who was a crit-master from the position of...

The sky!

...after dodging a mega-boss's fatal desperation attack that wiped the whole party except for Kain who escaped the whole damn thing. So cool... :cool:

What I'm saying is, we need bad-ass dragoons like that again. Wyvern husbandry was nice, and all, but I'm all for going back to the roots. So many Final Fantasy titles have dragoons as a "jumping" job, and with so many great characters in that role (even a Cid, once). Pets were just a gimmick of FFXI, which is fine, but it's a clearly a variation and not the tradition of the role.

If they could implement some amazing, tactical, breathtaking jumps for dragoons, it would be the best thing ever. Far more than any pet would be, at least.

who cares about the pet, i'd just want that badass looking drg armor.

I am -pretty sure- that a significant fraction of my crush on Kain comes from him jumping around like a maniac to avoid terribad AoEs during certain boss fights, yeah. <3

Can we /thread this yet? You guys aren't getting a wyvern. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings for saying this. It just won't happen. /thread

Curse you all for dragging me into this topic when I should be studying! Ok I need to show some self control and not blame others :-)

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If you want something similar, then advocate for an "original Dragoon of Final Fantasy" with Drakes and Wyverns being exclusive mounts for the class. That way, Yoshi-P won't have to worry about altering the job to suit the desires of the few.

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I'm not opposed to the idea of a mount rather than a pet as long as it has some depth to it. I loved the quest in XI to attain the DRG job. It added some real lore to the class that sucked me in. If they could pull that off with a mount and have

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that badass looking drg armor.

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I would be somewhat content.

That being said I still lean toward having the wyvern.

BECAUSE WHY LIMIT MYSELF TO ONE COPY OF THIS POST WHEN THERE ARE MULTIPLE THREADS!?
[SIZE="5"]｢(ﾟﾍﾟ)[/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

After putting some thought into it, I think my opinion lies with the anti-pet crowd. Allow me to outline a few points here; I want this to come off less like I'm choosing a side or arguing a point and more like I'm stating, "I think it's in the best interest of FFXIV and the franchise tradition."

I've tried to arrange my points in a hierarchy, where one leads into the other, so that when read as a whole, it becomes clear why pet-less makes more sense.

Quote this everywhere you feel necessary.

• Semantics: A dragoon is, by definition, a battle specialist capable of making war either as infantry or cavalry. This alone does not imply any connotations to dragons at all; simply the ability to fight with a good reach; the term dragoon should only be associated with weapons and battle choices. The power of the Dragoon lies within his spear, not his pet.
• Localization: Dragoon is our name for the job, not the true name of the job. Ryuukishi simply means Dragon Knight; as in the noun Knight (armored solider who serves lord or land in war) modified by the adjective Dragon (of or relating to Dragons. <Herpaderp>) Combine the east and west traditions and you arrive at: An armored solider, skilled in infantry and cavalry, who is of or resembles a dragon. So far, even Ma Chao of Dynasty Warriors fame fits the bill just fine, and he fought solo.
  
  
  http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...W5/Ma-Chao.png
  "Wiv Urn? That thing I smashed to get a meat patty?"
• Tradition: Though not required by semantic standards, Final Fantasy has tied Dragon Knight to dragons many times in many forms. This was first introduced in Final Fantasy II, where Dragon Knight did indeed fight alongside a wyvern - but before quoting this as evidence, do realize this wyvern was big enough to ride and also acted as the "Cavalry" half of that whole "Dragoon" thing. Using that as evidence to recycle XI's mechanics in XIV is ... flimsy. At best. The rest of the series just has Dragoon maintaining the standard of a lance wielder who can jump really high (or maybe he was pole vaulting the entire time and we never noticed) and often befriends dragons.
• FFXI: Compared to the aforementioned, XI's dragoon was a rogue; a wannabe - An infantry-only dragonslayer (WTF?) who has a change of heart and hangs around with the least intimidating version of a namesake you could ever model your goofy purple armor after. That's like having a Chocobo Knight who spends his life hunting down chocobos until he realizes the error of his ways and begins fighting alongside a chicken. (THAT'S RIGHT, I WENT THERE.)
• Game Mechanic: If LNC gains a pet, he will have to become weaker as a balance. Getting weaker is only acceptable evolution if your goal is to become better at something else (such as healing, buffing, or tanking.) A dragon knight (again, an armored warrior who fights on land and mount; taking on the image and ferocity of a dragon) should never hold the goal of kicking less ass. Ever. Even for an adorable sidekick who does not enhance any of his aforementioned traditional characteristics or even act as his cavalry.
• Lore: Wrap up everything we have so far and Lancer should be evolving from a pole wielding infantryman to a heavily armored multi-faceted ass-kicking machine who looks like a godsdamn dragon. He could fight alone from the back of a chocobo and still fulfill every requirement. His raw power and passion should be so mighty as to impress the dragon-kind. His quests and missions should involve him getting close to, taking flights on, and kicking ass with dragon-kind (and never slaying them. Again, wtf?). The pet is unnecessary and counter-intuitive to the goal.

All in all, I think it's time for Final Fantasy Online's dragoon to learn to stand on his own two feet. The potential for a pet-less DRG is far higher than a pet-DRG, imho. If he jumps, if he masters the spear, if he looks like a dragon and fights like a dragon... he is dragon knight. He is dragoon.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

BECAUSE WHY LIMIT MYSELF TO ONE COPY OF THIS POST WHEN THERE ARE MULTIPLE THREADS!?
[SIZE="5"]｢(ﾟﾍﾟ)[/SIZE]

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This i like, +like.

I would prefer instead of having a wyvern pet, maybe having an advanced attack move that summons a dragon to swoop in and do an AOE breath attack or something.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

BECAUSE WHY LIMIT MYSELF TO ONE COPY OF THIS POST WHEN THERE ARE MULTIPLE THREADS!?
[SIZE="5"]｢(ﾟﾍﾟ)[/SIZE]

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Great reasoning Anon!
I want to play dragoon and feel mighty, not stroll around with a gimicky sidekick. Leave that for the upcoming pet jobs.

All the wyvern hate on this forum makes me really sad for this game.

After reading through several replies, it's become clear to me that people are only concerned with seeing high numbers off their melee as typical without taking into account any benefits or consequences of other factors involved.

If a wyvern partner is added to dragoon, that does not mean that the player will suddenly be a wet noodle flailing about like a sissy in front of a mob. What it infers, is that some of the stats will be split and placed on the second body, and the end result is still the same output. The total output of a dragoon plus wyvern will be the same as a dragoon without wyvern whichever route SE ultimately takes.

Wyvern plus dragoon is actually far more powerful if you look at the XI model, and assume some of the basics will still be in place.
Lance is traditionally a high delay weapon, this is instantly made moot with the high dps a wyvern brings in. So a dragoon may use stronger, higher delay weapons but maintain fast dps. No other class can do that.

Wyvern and dragoon do high damage but because its split between two bodies, any enmity gained is also. So dragoon plus wyvern can safely do more damage dealing moves more frequently and have slower enmity gain. Currently, no other class can do that.

Wyvern is semi automated and doesn't require much if any distraction or micromanaging from the player.

Wyvern, in XI, was able to heal just as well as having a mage around if you knew how to take advantage of it. The verstility of being able to change the wyvern's "job", in tune, made the dragoon extremely versatile. If wyvern, worked in a similar fashion to XI, its like getting double the effect out of most of your equipped abilities.

Wyvern could emergency tank for different exploits or (run away!), allowing the dragoon to have more survivability.

Wyvern had unique and interesting features and aesthetic qualities. A lot of which could be advanced upon in this game. Wyvern can grow, learn new abilities, maybe be customizable to some degree, perhaps have armor upgrades to make them more powerful, and in turn the dragoon more powerful...
There's just so much potential.

So it makes me rather dismayed to see people pout and say they just want one or two jump attacks added to their lancer and somehow think the currently broken balance with the class will forever remain in tact. For those who just want a really strong super melee with a lance are doing themselves a great disservice if they believe that avenue is with a wyvernless dragoon.

If anything, I hope that maybe SE will do a compromise, and just make it so that dragoon will be in tact solo, but when he/she summons the wyvern, at that point the stat different is deducted and granted to the wyvern. Maybe a percentage so that improving your own stats will also improve the wyvern as well. In this way those who poo-poo the wyvern aren't forced to play with it summoned without consequence (but without benefit), and those who wish to use the wyvern may do so at any time they please.

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Originally Posted by Kio

All the wyvern hate on this forum makes me really sad for this game.

After reading through several replies, it's become clear to me that people are only concerned with seeing high numbers

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You're absolutely wrong. We want the traditional, classic, original Dragoon. No compromises, and nothing holding it back.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

You're absolutely wrong. We want the traditional, classic, original Dragoon. No compromises, and nothing holding it back.

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Yet when people want Traditional, Classic style Final Fantasy in general which they've incorporated into FFXI, you get people going on long rants that ends with "Go play FFXI, let FFXIV be something new." Or "Only they can decide what a FF is."

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Originally Posted by Andrien

You're absolutely wrong. We want the traditional, classic, original Dragoon. No compromises, and nothing holding it back.

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And why arent you satisfied with the lancer class then? lancer is almost the playstile of a traditional drg. if you dont love that playstyle. you dont love the traditional drg.

these arguments about "blabla" "but in the traditional series..."... are conjurer etc. also traditional classes??

Nice post there Anon.
Sig updated to support the cause.

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Originally Posted by Kio

All the wyvern hate on this forum makes me really sad for this game.

After reading through several replies, it's become clear to me that people are only concerned with seeing high numbers off their melee as typical without taking into account any benefits or consequences of other factors involved.

If a wyvern partner is added to dragoon, that does not mean that the player will suddenly be a wet noodle flailing about like a sissy in front of a mob. What it infers, is that some of the stats will be split and placed on the second body, and the end result is still the same output. The total output of a dragoon plus wyvern will be the same as a dragoon without wyvern whichever route SE ultimately takes.

Wyvern plus dragoon is actually far more powerful if you look at the XI model, and assume some of the basics will still be in place.
Lance is traditionally a high delay weapon, this is instantly made moot with the high dps a wyvern brings in. So a dragoon may use stronger, higher delay weapons but maintain fast dps. No other class can do that.

Wyvern and dragoon do high damage but because its split between two bodies, any enmity gained is also. So dragoon plus wyvern can safely do more damage dealing moves more frequently and have slower enmity gain. Currently, no other class can do that.

Wyvern is semi automated and doesn't require much if any distraction or micromanaging from the player.

Wyvern, in XI, was able to heal just as well as having a mage around if you knew how to take advantage of it. The verstility of being able to change the wyvern's "job", in tune, made the dragoon extremely versatile. If wyvern, worked in a similar fashion to XI, its like getting double the effect out of most of your equipped abilities.

Wyvern could emergency tank for different exploits or (run away!), allowing the dragoon to have more survivability.

Wyvern had unique and interesting features and aesthetic qualities. A lot of which could be advanced upon in this game. Wyvern can grow, learn new abilities, maybe be customizable to some degree, perhaps have armor upgrades to make them more powerful, and in turn the dragoon more powerful...
There's just so much potential.

So it makes me rather dismayed to see people pout and say they just want one or two jump attacks added to their lancer and somehow think the currently broken balance with the class will forever remain in tact. For those who just want a really strong super melee with a lance are doing themselves a great disservice if they believe that avenue is with a wyvernless dragoon.

If anything, I hope that maybe SE will do a compromise, and just make it so that dragoon will be in tact solo, but when he/she summons the wyvern, at that point the stat different is deducted and granted to the wyvern. Maybe a percentage so that improving your own stats will also improve the wyvern as well. In this way those who poo-poo the wyvern aren't forced to play with it summoned without consequence (but without benefit), and those who wish to use the wyvern may do so at any time they please.

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wonderfully written, 100% agree. And i remember someone making a mention of the pet later becoming a flying mount for the job...how freaking cool would that be?

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

And why arent you satisfied with the lancer class then? lancer is almost the playstile of a traditional drg. if you dont love that playstyle. you dont love the traditional drg.

these arguments about "blabla" "but in the traditional series..."... are conjurer etc. also traditional classes??

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Last time I checked, Lancer does not have abilities that ties it to Dragoons. Do yourself and everyone a big favor and research the job in other Final Fantasy games.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

wonderfully written, 100% agree. And i remember someone making a mention of the pet later becoming a flying mount for the job...how freaking cool would that be?

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According to the people against the idea..it wouldn't be cool at all and they'd say something like:

"Or just add the ability to mount wyvern enemies."

I mean, the Dragoons of FFXI storywise rode their own wyverns and even Aruehat makes mention of Dragoons being able to tame her kind (Wyrms), but people are against the idea because it would "gimp" the job, yet if you seen how powerful critical hits can be with materia thrown into the mix..they don't need a wyvern for the job to get 'gimped'.

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Originally Posted by Holy_Dragoon

Nice post there Anon.
Sig updated to support the cause.

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Nice post?

Looking at that
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...W5/Ma-Chao.png

I'm seeing the incarnation of the lancer we are having ingame now. a regular polearm foot soldier, nothing special. taking into concern... that the OLD FFXIV dev team created the classes with the traditional jobs in mind. so lancer is almost the playstyle of the drg.. like the con is almost a whm with 1.20. (banish, dia, curega, protect, silena, slowga, shell, stoneskin etc.)

and i cant understand why people arent satisfied enough with the lancer when they like to be a damage dealer just wielding polearm class. its just about the job title "dragoon". the really and only cool thing about drg in 1.21 will be the "dragoon" title itself.

really silly

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

According to the people against the idea..it wouldn't be cool at all and they'd say something like:

"Or just add the ability to mount wyvern enemies."

I mean, the Dragoons of FFXI storywise rode their own wyverns and even Aruehat makes mention of Dragoons being able to tame her kind (Wyrms), but people are against the idea because it would "gimp" the job, yet if you seen how powerful critical hits can be with materia thrown into the mix..they don't need a wyvern for the job to get 'gimped'.

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While they might not need a wyvern for the job to get gimped, it certainly wouldn't help the cause. I doubt anyone who's played pet-based classes has never felt frustration over the AI of the pet, because there's only so much you can make it do.

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Originally Posted by Kio

If anything, I hope that maybe SE will do a compromise, and just make it so that dragoon will be in tact solo, but when he/she summons the wyvern, at that point the stat different is deducted and granted to the wyvern. Maybe a percentage so that improving your own stats will also improve the wyvern as well. In this way those who poo-poo the wyvern aren't forced to play with it summoned without consequence (but without benefit), and those who wish to use the wyvern may do so at any time they please.

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Our real point is this - it's not that we hate wyverns on principle, but that the balancing job of (as you say) "splitting stats between the two of them" or balancing the occasional breath weapon alongside a FFXIV DRG's attacks is going to be ridiculously hard, if not impossible, to do. We can't see how it can be done without ultimately gimping the player in a very mechanical way- much the same way that DRG was a long-time underutilized class sometime between the launch of FFXI and Abyssea. 'loldrg' didn't spring up for no reason whatsoever, and it's this past experience with DRG being a pet job that many of us are not keen on seeing it as a pet job again.

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Originally Posted by Tatsuo

Why not have the choice?

You call your Wyvern, you give up some strength or whatever and get your companion.
You dismiss it, your stats get back to normal.

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Exactly what I suggested. Yoshida-san seems to be all about choice anyways. Why not let us have the choice to have a wyvern, and split our damage with our wyvern, or choose not to have one at all, and remain strong. Wyvern could be obtained through a quest, and those who don't want it don't have to get it. If they choose not to get it, they don't lose anything.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Nice post?

Looking at that
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...W5/Ma-Chao.png

I'm seeing the incarnation of the lancer we are having ingame now. a regular polearm foot soldier, nothing special. taking into concern... that the OLD FFXIV dev team created the classes with the traditional jobs in mind. so lancer is almost the playstyle of the drg.. like the con is almost a whm with 1.20. (banish, dia, curega, protect, silena, slowga, shell, stoneskin etc.)

and i cant understand why people arent satisfied enough with the lancer when they like to be a damage dealer just wielding polearm class. its just about the job title "dragoon". the really and only cool thing about drg in 1.21 will be the "dragoon" title itself.

really silly

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I did look past the image, because it is obviously not a Dragoon. Kain Highwind and Freya Crescent are Dragoons, or Dragon Knights so to speak. Dragoons embody the spirit and power of the dragon, including it's elemental properties. They can in fact use magic in a supportive role. Their jump tactics make them slow to attack, but when they do you better hope you can absorb damage.

I'm not against the Wyvern, I enjoyed in FFXI for being a different take on the DRG formula. If I happen to do less DPS than an archer or warrior, I'm ok with that. I would however like to see a DRG that strikes HARD when it does strike. Moderate DMG in standard attacks, extreme DMG when taking to the skies, and moderate to low magic skill that is only effective when using the correct element. To do that, a wyvern can't be there that may or may not be able to do damage effectively.

No idea...Dragoon has been one of my favorite jobs in FFXI, not only because I love polearms but also dragons. When I picked up FFXIV back then, it was no question to take a closer look at Lancer. Then they mentioned jobs, and Dragoon being on the list I was totally sold. Finally a dragon mate again! It's been my main reason for picking Lancer as my main class.

Not saying I like the idea about 'gimping' the job, but even if it happened that way, there would be other means to compensate the loss of...whatever. And it's not like dragons would be useless vanity pets. I just remember the upcoming self-skillchains. You could be able to make such chains with your dragon perhaps, or even let other people do them with your dragon...or dragons with other dragons. And with the new engine, who knows what kinda stuff will be possible in the future!?

Now I'm not screaming for flying dragon mounts, although that would be awesome. But...traditional Dragoon or not...not being able to have your dragon mate would make me very sad, and disappointed. Opinion and preference, surely. Just sharing my thoughts. Without the dragons...I don't know how I should identify myself through the job...in any other way than I already do with Lancer right now. It would seem totally pointless to me and I'd lose a big chunk of interest, sadly. Yea that's kinda silly.

Long story short, my vote clearly goes -for- the dragons!

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Originally Posted by Nayt

While they might not need a wyvern for the job to get gimped, it certainly wouldn't help the cause. I doubt anyone who's played pet-based classes has never felt frustration over the AI of the pet, because there's only so much you can make it do.

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well we dont have any pet based jobs to judge now do we? People seriously need to stop thinking everything will be AI controled like FFXI, for one second think differently. Thats pretty much everyones problem with it, they saw how FFXI DRG worked and they instantly think it would be bad in this game, which CLEARLY plays different.

How i hope Dragoon turns out to be, maybe minus the wings but it needs the essence of a dragon within the dragoon, Not just befriending a random wyvern.

http://images.wikia.com/legendofdrag...agoon_form.jpg

In XI dragoon was the most boring DD class to play for years. It also didn't do enough damage with its flawed accuracy so everyone shunned DRGs, wyvern or not. As long as it's balanced and has a rich play style, it really doesn't matter whether it gets a pet or not.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

well we dont have any pet based jobs to judge now do we? People seriously need to stop thinking everything will be AI controled like FFXI, for one second think differently. Thats pretty much everyones problem with it, they saw how FFXI DRG worked and they instantly think it would be bad in this game, which CLEARLY plays different.

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You need to stop telling people to think about ffxi, because clearly you're obsessed with it.

There are only so many commands you can give a pet without mouse point/click or direct keyboard control. At least read the post you're quoting.