#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by RhodesToRome

The interesting thing is you don't actually know that they want to "go back", and certainly not where they want to "go back" to. Focusing more on job identity could mean so many things. It's such a general sentiment that we can only speculate as to what that would look like and where they would take their inspiration from.

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They have literally said they overreacted to feedback and made the game too simple and unexciting. Yoshi P has said the current direction of the game makes him fall asleep while playing.

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Originally Posted by RhodesToRome

And I'm sorry, but it is absolutely rose-tinted glasses. I'm very confident that a majority of the playerbase, if given the choice, would prefer the game in its current iteration over HW. I could absolutely see an argument for some aspects of StB, but there were issues there that I would not like to see repeated.

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https://media1.tenor.com/m/X3TqG0t92...er-griffin.gif

Do you care to repeat another circlejerk crowd-pleasing non-argument? And I am once again proven right like the seer I am:

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

but it's much harder for people to justify why the positive aspects of the previous expansions cannot be brought back into modern FF14. It's so hard that nobody ever tries to tackle it and resort to the lazy attempt to dismiss everything as nostalgia.

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Maybe it takes 160 IQ for modern homo sapiens to understand how to separate the good from the bad of an expansion.

Maybe it also takes 160 IQ to understand that people don't have nostalgia for shitty netcode or having to wait 7 minutes after wiping for Hallowed Ground or having to wait 4 minutes for the Astrologian to roll double ExpBal for an opti run. They liked the good old days for other reasons.

What do player preferences have to do with content being cleared without healers? It's an imbalance. Fix it. I don't care what your preferences are.

If content from top to bottom was being cleared without tanks the forums and game would be having a meltdown. The fact healers have sat down and tolerated it this long is a blessing. It's time for things to change.

What the pro tankers writing their essays don't seem to get is that players can like something and that thing still be objectively bad for the game. If we have options to correct an anomaly that doesn't otherwise ruin something else, then we need to employ those options. It's just that simple.

As others have already mentioned, every player who plays over expansions has encountered buffs, nerfs, or reworks. That's the game we play. I don't like the new BLM rework, it has a major potential problem that will likely need to change for the final release. And even then, I'm not thrilled. We can't just say "people don't want their mains to change" and give up. Mains change all the time at the behest of the dev team.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Anyone who wants to have 'more healing required' as the solution to pursue to make Healers more engaging, I have a series of questions.



Also, anyone who wants 'more healing required', hey, Cataclysm Classic is out. You can go try 'more healing required' over there if you like

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This is what I wanted to articulate in my older post. Also most people in this thread haven't done content that isn't normal so I don't think people understand the premise of what "increase healing required" means

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

The same is again true in reverse; anecdotally I can only say that queue times got "better" for healers when ShB launched, which indicated that less people were playing healers compared to when I started in SB.

People like dealing damage, they like seeing big funny numbers, there's already plenty of memes around WHM screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILY!" people were excited at the concept of SGE being the "deal damage to heal" healer, so the inclusion of extra damage options would be exciting for people. And those that don't care for extra damage because "healers should be for healing" can just do what they do now and ignore them, even if they should know better.

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The situation doesn't truly go both ways, though, not from SE's perspective. Leaving things as-is is free; doing huge reworks of four jobs is very expensive, both in money and time. Reworking four jobs as immediately as most folks in this thread seem to be demanding will mean other content has to get postponed or cut- SE is not going to suddenly give CBU3 a budget increase to go hire a bunch more devs to work on job reworks just because one forum thread gained some traction (not that that would be logistically feasible anyway). And to your anecdote, ShB introduced one tank and one DPS job, so there would've been more people queuing as those roles, hence shorter queue times for healers. I'd be willing to bet that played a much bigger role in short healer queues than general satisfaction with playing healer, but there's no way of actually knowing.

Some people like dealing damage, some people like big funny number (me among them), but I've encountered plenty of healers who seem wholly uninterested in doing DPS and who could easily feel overwhelmed by more complex DPS rotations. Giving feedback is fine, but there are a lot of people in this thread demanding that SE capitulate to their preferences without justifying that demand or giving any reason why the benefits of doing so would outweigh the risks.

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Originally Posted by Moonjava

The situation doesn't truly go both ways, though, not from SE's perspective. Leaving things as-is is free; doing huge reworks of four jobs is very expensive, both in money and time. Reworking four jobs as immediately as most folks in this thread seem to be demanding will mean other content has to get postponed or cut- SE is not going to suddenly give CBU3 a budget increase to go hire a bunch more devs to work on job reworks just because one forum thread gained some traction (not that that would be logistically feasible anyway). And to your anecdote, ShB introduced one tank and one DPS job, so there would've been more people queuing as those roles, hence shorter queue times for healers. I'd be willing to bet that played a much bigger role in short healer queues than general satisfaction with playing healer, but there's no way of actually knowing.

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Then they shouldn't have done the ShB reworks to begin with, all it did was design them into a hole that needs another redesign.

The inclusion of SGE also didn't fix the healer queue times, it was still mostly instant. So that argument doesn't work for me either.

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Originally Posted by Moonjava

Some people like dealing damage, some people like big funny number (me among them), but I've encountered plenty of healers who seem wholly uninterested in doing DPS and who could easily feel overwhelmed by more complex DPS rotations. Giving feedback is fine, but there are a lot of people in this thread demanding that SE capitulate to their preferences without justifying that demand or giving any reason why the benefits of doing so would outweigh the risks.

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Then they can just ignore those buttons, it hardly matters in casual content since the only actual requirements for healers should be to meet the healing requirements. Damage is just a bonus in casual content.

In Ex/Savage they don't have a choice, and they should be dealing damage regardless of how they feel about it.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

They have literally said they overreacted to feedback and made the game too simple and unexciting. Yoshi P has said the current direction of the game makes him fall asleep while playing.

Maybe it takes 160 IQ for modern homo sapiens to understand how to separate the good from the bad of an expansion.

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That doesn't refute my point at all about us not knowing what that new direction would look like. Saying they're not a fan of the now does not mean they're going back to try and recapture how it was. But yes, please continue to condescend and think that you have a third eye that can see all.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

Maybe it also takes 160 IQ to understand that people don't have nostalgia for shitty netcode or having to wait 7 minutes after wiping for Hallowed Ground or having to wait 4 minutes for the Astrologian to roll double ExpBal for an opti run. They liked the good old days for other reasons.

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Don't forget that the reason they wiped with Hallowed Ground on Cooldown is because the PLD died during the Hallowed Ground animation, just before the invuln effect applied, and, It. Is. Still. On. Cooldown. Always 'fun' to see, even though I was only playing casual at the time.

The fact that we do not know what future jobs and encounters will look like is all the more argument for finding solutions in the here and now that actually addresses the problems at hand.

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Originally Posted by Moonjava

None of us can answer why it was changed before- maybe it shouldn't have been. I can't say. But people are demanding change now, and so I'm asking what justifies the very non-trivial development cost of the changes being demanded when those changes are very likely to piss a lot of people off and may only excite a comparatively smaller group of players.

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Let me make this abundantly clear for you.

You, me, everyone here, we are ALL a minority. The majority DOES NOT CARE. They played healers in HW, they played healers in SB, they played healers in ShB, they played healers in EW, they will play healers in DT. They won't care whether the healer rotation is 1 2 3 4, 1 1 1 1 or 1 2 6 25 87 635 1, they will play healer as long as they enjoy it because they don't have a strong opinion one way or another.

These people do not have a strong lean one way or another. We (you and us), the people who feel strongly enough to give feedback are obviously a small number.

Neither of us have the backing of this nebulous majority, you can't even say any changes would anger anyone either because you DON'T KNOW how people would react.

Again, say it with me, the community is not a hivemind.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I'm honestly pretty tired of seeing people trot out the tired "If you want more healing/damage buttons, then you don't do harder content".

Again, 58% of my GCDs were used on Broil IV in DSR on-content. 58%. On one button. That isn't even a heal. And I wasn't even close to optimised.

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I think healers should definitely get more damage buttons or buttons that just make the job more fun to play regardless of if it's a dungeon or ultimate. I really really really do not think making a random dungeon boss raidwide do the same damage as a week 1 3 stack Aionagonia from Hephaistos II is the solution to that because people will just leave dungeons that have bad healers.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

Then they shouldn't have done the ShB reworks to begin with, all it did was design them into a hole that needs another redesign.

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Again, healers "need" a redesign according to you. A lot of people don't feel that way. Why is your opinion on the matter the "correct" one?

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

The inclusion of SGE also didn't fix the healer queue times, it was still mostly instant. So that argument doesn't work for me either.

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There are countless reasons why healer queue times could have changed over time. I could come up with plenty of other possibilities, but our own pet theories can never be proven and are not evidence for anything.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

Then they can just ignore those buttons, it hardly matters in casual content since the only actual requirements for healers should be to meet the healing requirements. Damage is just a bonus in casual content. In Ex/Savage they don't have a choice, and they should be dealing damage regardless of how they feel about it.

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People generally don't find someone ignoring the bulk of their DPS rotation to be acceptable play in any level of content- they would inevitably get called out for it in some roulette or another. Introducing a more complex DPS rotation inherently raises the skill floor, even if the old rotation were technically still possible, and that would lead to some number of players, however small, quitting the game and would narrow the potential playerbase. I've still yet to see a compelling argument as to why SE should do that besides "I personally liked the old way better."

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Let me make this abundantly clear for you.

You, me, everyone here, we are ALL a minority. The majority DOES NOT CARE. They played healers in HW, they played healers in SB, they played healers in ShB, they played healers in EW, they will play healers in DT. They won't care whether the healer rotation is 1 2 3 4, 1 1 1 1 or 1 2 6 25 87 635 1, they will play healer as long as they enjoy it because they don't have a strong opinion one way or another.

These people do not have a strong lean one way or another. We (you and us), the people who feel strongly enough to give feedback are obviously a small number.

Neither of us have the backing of this nebulous majority, you can't even say any changes would anger anyone either because you DON'T KNOW how people would react.

Again, say it with me, the community is not a hivemind.

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Alright friend, I don't know what I did to deserve this level of condescension, but your argument only strengthens my point. The vast majority of people don't care- as such, why should SE invest resources into reworking these jobs when it will only satisfy a relatively small number of players and will probably upset an equal amount of others? (Again, law of large numbers, some number of people will always be upset by any given change.) Game development on a schedule as regimented as FFXIV's is zero-sum. In order to redesign every healer job, they will have to make room in the development schedule to do so, and that comes at a cost of other content. If most people don't care whether healers change or not, what justifies cutting or delaying that other content?

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Originally Posted by Moonjava

Alright friend, I don't know what I did to deserve this level of condescension, but your argument only strengthens my point. The vast majority of people don't care- as such, why should SE invest resources into reworking these jobs when it will only satisfy a relatively small number of players and will probably upset an equal amount of others? (Again, law of large numbers, some number of people will always be upset by any given change.) Game development on a schedule as regimented as FFXIV's is zero-sum. In order to redesign every healer job, they will have to make room in the development schedule to do so, and that comes at a cost of other content. If most people don't care whether healers change or not, what justifies cutting or delaying that other content?

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And where exactly do you have the data that the people who want change is very small and an equal amount of people would be upset at the changes?

Your argument hinges entirely on data that you do not have.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

And where exactly do you have the data that the people who want change is very small and an equal amount of people would be upset at the changes?

Your argument hinges entirely on data that you do not have.

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It doesn't- I was clear up front that there is no way of knowing the ratio of people who would like a rework versus people who would be upset by it. My point is, SE doesn't have that data either- they can try to collect it, but it's going to be unreliable, because people who are currently content but would be upset by a rework are going to be less likely to give feedback than people who are currently upset and would like a rework. Given they cannot truly know if reworking healers would excite more people than it would upset, and the fact that such a rework would eat up a lot of development resources and cause other content to fall by the wayside, why should they do it?

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Originally Posted by Moonjava

Again, healers "need" a redesign according to you. A lot of people don't feel that way. Why is your opinion on the matter the "correct" one?

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Given the sheer amount of response this thread has had in a very short amount of time, that should be an indication that a lot of people are very, very unhappy with the status quo.

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Originally Posted by Moonjava

There are countless reasons why healer queue times could have changed over time. I could come up with plenty of other possibilities, but our own pet theories can never be proven and are not evidence for anything.

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Hence why I referred to it as an anecdote, it's a thing I noticed but not full evidence. It's something to add to suggest that maybe people don't like how the healers play compared to before.

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Originally Posted by Moonjava

People generally don't find someone ignoring the bulk of their DPS rotation to be acceptable play in any level of content- they would inevitably get called out for it in some roulette or another. Introducing a more complex DPS rotation inherently raises the skill floor, even if the old rotation were technically still possible, and that would lead to some number of players, however small, quitting the game and would narrow the potential playerbase.

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It only raises the ceiling on healers, not the floor. This has been discussed ad nauseum on the healer sub forum for years now. Only in Ex/Savage would it raise the floor, which is where people should be comfortable with their jobs anyway.

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Originally Posted by Moonjava

I've still yet to see a compelling argument as to why SE should do that besides "I personally liked the old way better."

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And there's no compelling argument for the current paradigm, all you're doing is going in circles and intentionally being antagonistic over "well, I'm sure SOME like it".

Let me just start by saying that there's nothing wrong with the healer role and explain why your opinions are going to get ignored again.

In FFXIV the healer role is intended to play differently than say something like WOW. In this game your main priority is to do damage and use your off global cooldowns to heal and sustain the party.

Additionally, the majority of you are players that have mostly touched normal content in the game and 90% of that content is made in a way to support every single player regardless of their knowledge of the game or their skill level, so that type of content will never change.

Even if they did change normal content to make it more difficult I can guarantee you that people will not be able to consistently clear it, leading to some players leaving the game because it's "too difficult" and eventually the thing they made harder will get nerfed and back to it's current state.

Instead of crying about it and trying to boycott I suggest you give a try to some of the harder content in the game such as Criterion dungeons, extreme fights, savage raids and ultimate raids.

Obviously Criterion and Extreme are still easy but they do have a bit more going on, allowing you to use more of your kit.

Moving up to Savage and Ultimates, however is quite a big jump for most people who have not done any difficult content before. Trust me you're gonna struggle and you're most likely going to make your co-healer wanna pluck their hairs out but it's okay.

Now I also know about the thing where certain content was cleared without a healer but here's the thing about that. In order to succeed, you had jobs that have healing abilities take on a fake healer role putting in 4 times more effort into keeping everybody alive that honestly they're better off just going healer in the end of the day.

Additionally, if you looked into it, you'll see that their sacrifice of heals costed them a decent amount of damage just because you can't cast heals and cast damage at the same time. And on the other hand 90% of players will not be able to replicate that, so that alone cannot be a "red flag" towards ffxiv healer job design or whatever this is.

I'm a long-term healer in this game and I've done all sorts of content including the hardest ultimates as healer and from my experience dealing with different healers and seeing how many people actually struggle to play it consistently and forgetting to use cooldowns enough to make me have to cover their healing, I'd say the healer jobs are just fine and if there's anything they need it's just a bit more of an engaging damage rotation but looking at DT I can see us slowly getting there.

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Originally Posted by Moonjava

It doesn't- I was clear up front that there is no way of knowing the ratio of people who would like a rework versus people who would be upset by it. My point is, SE doesn't have that data either- they can try to collect it, but it's going to be unreliable, because people who are currently content but would be upset by a rework are going to be less likely to give feedback than people who are currently upset and would like a rework. Given they cannot truly know if reworking healers would excite more people than it would upset, and the fact that such a rework would eat up a lot of development resources and cause other content to fall by the wayside, why should they do it?

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And that's what this movement is aiming to prove. If enough healers truly quit in DT to impact their metrics, then it proves that enough people think that the current healer design is garbage and something needs to change. If the numbers are small enough to not matter, then SE can see that it's not worth doing anything.

It remains to be seen how things will turn out, but right now no one has the data and no one can claim the nebulous majority backing. So it's just pro-change vs anti-change.

Savage is barely engaging either because all you do is press broil

You easily spend 70-80% of your casts on broil/biolysis because our kits are so overpowered and the damage just isn’t there

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Originally Posted by BelleStarlily

In FFXIV the healer role is intended to play differently than say something like WOW. In this game your main priority is to do damage and use your off global cooldowns to heal and sustain the party.

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If our main priority is to deal damage you might want to talk to the design team. They don't seem to think so. Also, if our main goal is damage, then they should make dealing that damage interesting.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

Given the sheer amount of response this thread has had in a very short amount of time, that should be an indication that a lot of people are very, very unhappy with the status quo.

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Relative to the size of the entire playerbase, this is not very significant.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

It only raises the ceiling on healers, not the floor. This has been discussed ad nauseum on the healer sub forum for years now. Only in Ex/Savage would it raise the floor, which is where people should be comfortable with their jobs anyway.

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It sounds to me like you consider the skill floor in normal content to be basically non-existent, that a healer can AFK at a dungeon entrance and as long as the rest of the group clears the dungeon, that's acceptable. From a purely objective-oriented perspective, that may be true, but in the social context of the game, players expect a certain amount of participation and effort from other players. If I ran a level 90 dungeon on SMN and only clicked Outburst and Ruin III, that would be considered griefing- if healer rotations were put on par with tanks/DPS, only clicking Glare and Holy would similarly be considered griefing, and a lot of players wouldn't take kindly to that. Players who wanted to stick to the old rotation would face social backlash for doing so.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

And there's no compelling argument for the current paradigm, all you're doing is going in circles and intentionally being antagonistic over "well, I'm sure SOME like it".

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The argument for the current paradigm is that it costs SE nothing to leave it as-is. That is my point. Nobody has given a compelling reason why SE should invest resources into this rework beyond their own personal preference.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Savage is barely engaging either because all you do is press broil

You easily spend 70-80% of your casts on broil/biolysis because our kits are so overpowered and the damage just isn’t there

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I want to see you try just pressing broil as Harrowing Hell happens week 1. Stop being disingenuous, it makes the strike harder to take seriously.

You're also being disingenuous by pointing out one of the only situations in savage raids where a mechanic is remotely taxing to the healing/tanking kits.

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Instead of crying about it and trying to boycott I suggest you give a try to some of the harder content in the game such as Criterion dungeons, extreme fights, savage raids and ultimate raids.

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k

signed,

https://i.ibb.co/HVMsK2G/Screenshot-...-15-004543.png

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Originally Posted by Moonjava

Relative to the size of the entire playerbase, this is not very significant.

The argument for the current paradigm is that it costs SE nothing to leave it as-is. That is my point. Nobody has given a compelling reason why SE should invest resources into this rework beyond their own personal preference.

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Guess they shouldn't have fixed issues people had with the benchmark, that was also only a small portion of the playerbase that complained and also cost resources.

A lot of people have issues, they want to see it fixed, resources be damned, that's what our sub should be paying for.

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Originally Posted by localareanetwork

I want to see you try just pressing broil as Harrowing Hell happens week 1. Stop being disingenuous, it makes the strike harder to take seriously.

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A mechanic that happens twice in the fight? The guy said 70%-80% of their cast are broil/biolysis. Even if they only spammed succor during HH it wouldn't account for 20%-30%. If anything, that number of broil cast is a very generous percent.

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Originally Posted by BelleStarlily

In FFXIV the healer role is intended to play differently than say something like WOW. In this game your main priority is to do damage and use your off global cooldowns to heal and sustain the party.

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You would think that if the main priority of healers is to deal damage, they would give them more options to deal said damage. The way I see it, no matter if their priority is having healers heal, or having healers do damage, they are failing to do both. Which is why so many people are pissed off.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

You're also being disingenuous by pointing out one of the only situations in savage raids where a mechanic is remotely taxing to the healing/tanking kits.

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Okay sorry, I'll list a few more mechanics in this expansion early on (so not months later) that is "remotely taxing to healing/tanking kits"

1. Life's agonies (no mickey ast)
2. Curtain Call
3. Intermission in DSR
4. Giga 2 and AM2 in DSR
4. Literally all of P8S phase 2, furthermore the entire Abyssos tier had an actual PF healer shortage because of the dots attached to raidwides and tankbusters
5. All of 6 of TOP
7. Any criterion savage

Healers deserve more buttons to make gameplay more interesting; it's far from one of the only situations where your healing and mit is "taxed"

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Originally Posted by Aravell

And that's what this movement is aiming to prove. If enough healers truly quit in DT to impact their metrics, then it proves that enough people think that the current healer design is garbage and something needs to change. If the numbers are small enough to not matter, then SE can see that it's not worth doing anything.

It remains to be seen how things will turn out, but right now no one has the data and no one can claim the nebulous majority backing. So it's just pro-change vs anti-change.

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Sure, that makes plenty of sense. And if this thread were purely focused on organizing people to try to move the needle on SE's data enough to make them act, I'd have no issue. It's the folks demanding immediate change to not only healer kits, but tank/DPS kits as well that I take umbrage with. It's a demand motivated purely by individual preference with no meaningful justification. And the insinuation that "if you don't think healers are utterly broken garbage and want to continue playing them in DT, then you're an idiot" that's also prevalent in this thread isn't very cool either, imo.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Savage is barely engaging either because all you do is press broil

You easily spend 70-80% of your casts on broil/biolysis because our kits are so overpowered and the damage just isn’t there

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just looked at our white mage, which while super un-optimized had 153 damage gcds outta 188 gcds. So... uhm... 81% of the "GCD healer" cast were dps abilities XD

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

A mechanic that happens twice in the fight? The guy said 70%-80% of their cast are broil/biolysis. Even if they only spammed succor during HH it wouldn't account for 20%-30%. If anything, that number of broil cast is a very generous percent.

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He did not do Anabaseios. I don't think he really should speak on the damage it does.

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Originally Posted by localareanetwork

He did not do Anabaseios. I don't think he really should speak on the damage it does.

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which is why I looked at our healer logs :l

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Originally Posted by localareanetwork

Okay sorry, I'll list a few more mechanics in this expansion early on (so not months later) that is "remotely taxing to healing/tanking kits"

1. Life's agonies (no mickey ast)
2. Curtain Call
3. Intermission in DSR
4. Giga 2 and AM2 in DSR
4. Literally all of P8S phase 2, furthermore the entire Abyssos tier had an actual PF healer shortage because of the dots attached to raidwides and tankbusters
5. All of 6 of TOP
7. Any criterion savage

Healers deserve more buttons to make gameplay more interesting; it's far from one of the only situations where your healing and mit is "taxed"

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1. Healer LB3
2. I'll give you that one
3. Lilybell + Soil and Bene Haurchefant before Pure of Heart, means you only need 1 or 2 AoE heals from each healer, the damage really isn't that high if you're used to it
4. Depends on the strats used, double AM tank cheese is a joke to heal through, it just makes p6 a bit harder as a cost
5. Depends on the tanks, if the tanks support on Natural Alignment and the Ifrit concept DoT on High Concept 2, it's not that hard to heal through, since the 2 DoTs on both mechanics are the dangerous bits

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Originally Posted by localareanetwork

Okay sorry, I'll list a few more mechanics in this expansion early on (so not months later) that is "remotely taxing to healing/tanking kits"

1. Life's agonies (no mickey ast)
2. Curtain Call
3. Intermission in DSR
4. Giga 2 and AM2 in DSR
4. Literally all of P8S phase 2, furthermore the entire Abyssos tier had an actual PF healer shortage because of the dots attached to raidwides and tankbusters
5. All of 6 of TOP
7. Any criterion savage

Healers deserve more buttons to make gameplay more interesting; it's far from one of the only situations where your healing and mit is "taxed"

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Most of those are way more dependent on mitigation than actual healing. Life's agonies is hard on SCH+SGE I'll give you that, but otherwise lol.

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Originally Posted by BelleStarlily

Additionally, the majority of you are players that have mostly touched normal content in the game and 90% of that content is made in a way to support every single player regardless of their knowledge of the game or their skill level, so that type of content will never change.


Even if they did change normal content to make it more difficult I can guarantee you that people will not be able to consistently clear it, leading to some players leaving the game because it's "too difficult" and eventually the thing they made harder will get nerfed and back to it's current state.

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There will never be enrages in normal content. People are asking for a bit of more varieties of damage spells. Feel free to NOT press your shiny new attack buttons if you so choose. You can still get clears I guarentee you.

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Instead of crying about it and trying to boycott I suggest you give a try to some of the harder content in the game such as Criterion dungeons, extreme fights, savage raids and ultimate raids.

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cast Fall Malefic 159 times at P12S as Astro with non-optimized healing plan
https://i.imgur.com/qpOB0eN.png

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Moving up to Savage and Ultimates, however is quite a big jump for most people who have not done any difficult content before. Trust me you're gonna struggle and you're most likely going to make your co-healer wanna pluck their hairs out but it's okay.

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No way Savage and Ultimate content should cater to lowest denominator.

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Additionally, if you looked into it, you'll see that their sacrifice of heals costed them a decent amount of damage just because you can't cast heals and cast damage at the same time. And on the other hand 90% of players will not be able to replicate that, so that alone cannot be a "red flag" towards ffxiv healer job design or whatever this is.

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How much damage do you lose aside from casing Vercure and Clemency? Most of healing provided by no healer roles are oGCDs

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I'm a long-term healer in this game and I've done all sorts of content including the hardest ultimates as healer and from my experience dealing with different healers and seeing how many people actually struggle to play it consistently and forgetting to use cooldowns enough to make me have to cover their healing, I'd say the healer jobs are just fine and if there's anything they need it's just a bit more of an engaging damage rotation but looking at DT I can see us slowly getting there.

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Those healers you met should never have made into Ultimate tbh.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

which is why I looked at our healer logs :l

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I don't think what you said is necessarily going against anything I'm saying or believe, because I think healers should have more interesting kits and ways to deal damage/give out heals and mit. I'm just saying there are a lot of spots where having mit and heals on point is needed, not how interesting the healing and mit is to give out. Also honestly 35 GCDs for a pure healer there is more than I expected.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

Guess they shouldn't have fixed issues people had with the benchmark, that was also only a small portion of the playerbase that complained and also cost resources.

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Part of the purpose of the benchmark this time around was to get player feedback on the graphics update. They've been expressly requesting feedback because the graphics update is still a work-in-progress, so they've already budgeted time/resources to it and implementing feedback requires little/no additional investment. They've requested no such feedback on healers nor made any indication that any kind of healer rework is in progress.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

A lot of people have issues, they want to see it fixed, resources be damned, that's what our sub should be paying for.

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Two can play at this game- a lot of people have zero issues, they don't want to see anything changed, complainers be damned, that's what our sub should be paying for.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

1. Healer LB3
2. I'll give you that one
3. Lilybell + Soil and Bene Haurchefant before Pure of Heart, means you only need 1 or 2 AoE heals from each healer, the damage really isn't that high if you're used to it
4. Depends on the strats used, double AM tank cheese is a joke to heal through, it just makes p6 a bit harder as a cost
5. Depends on the tanks, if the tanks support on Natural Alignment and the Ifrit concept DoT on High Concept 2, it's not that hard to heal through, since the 2 DoTs on both mechanics are the dangerous bits

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Most of the PF healers I got always refused to use healer LB for Life's Agonies, and I'm not sure if healer LB3 really counts.. like by that logic you can let most people drop dead to a mechanic then just heal lb3 them right? Also I just realized I went from 5 to 7 lol

Also also, I think p8s was an anomaly and shouldn't be treated as normal for the game's standard reqs from raw hps needed in a savage fight. I played astro though so I just got carried by its broken kit there

They "asked for feedback" when they gutted Kaiten off of SAM, and they gutted PLD back in 6.3 with far less feedback than this. They take feedback on every aspect of the game, but apparently not healers? Make it make sense.

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Originally Posted by Moonjava

Two can play at this game- a lot of people have zero issues, they don't want to see anything changed, complainers be damned, that's what our sub should be paying for.

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Hence why your arguments are pointless, they're literally circles. You're here only to antagonise and stir the pot without adding anything meaningful.

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Originally Posted by localareanetwork

I don't think what you said is necessarily going against anything I'm saying or believe, because I think healers should have more interesting kits and ways to deal damage/give out heals and mit. I'm just saying there are a lot of spots where having mit and heals on point is needed, not how interesting the healing and mit is to give out. Also honestly 35 GCDs for a pure healer there is more than I expected.

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Great, glad we agree ,let's all live in harmony as dps and tanks until that happens!

If the goal is to make healers combat medics, which I personally am completely fine with, then we cannot continue having 1 attack that comprises of almost all our DPS. If that’s the case, then every healer should have a DPS rotation as robust as the tanks comparatively, or in other words, not literally the same, but roughly the same complexity levels.

Not everyone wants that of the healer role, and I would prefer to find a more common ground, but if the goal is to be more or less offensive support, then that’s the direction we need to go in.

If that’s not the goal, then we need to increase the healing requirements. It’s about proportionally equipping healers with tools that reflect the effort they’re putting in.

We’re in a position that’s inversed. We are loaded with healing but rarely heal. We attack constantly but have nothing to attack with. Constantly people who do not heal tell us we’re not allowed to have more damage to heal and not allowed to have more attacks to use. It’s, quite frankly, a load of BS. I’m not here to sit on standby and wait for you to mess up. I’m here to enjoy the game like everyone else.