#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Yodada

How about we prune the Paladin too down to 2 DPS Buttons. Wouldnt this mean more fun gameplay for you?

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joke's on you, I'm a SCH main. :)

Don't always base on what class is mentioned in someone's avatar.

https://i.imgur.com/iyXxMFS.png

Yeah the PLL comment was basically just "we wont simplify it even further". Nothing more. The rest came from the media outlet.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

With a little practice you can easily avoid AoE's that apply Necrosis (the Doom like effect) at the first boss of Dead Ends. Not a good sign when the first expample too show why healers are only useless in some dungeons only applies when players mess up a mechanic. Sure when your team messes up often enough, they'll need a healer in any dungeon. This is the main problem with encounter design, most of the times healers could be useful can be completely avoided by gaining a little more experience with the encounter.

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Sure, with practice, but in a party with a mentor who hasn't run it in months, and two sprouts running it for the first time, of course someone's going to mess up a mechanic. A dungeon run where everyone executes every mechanic perfectly is a rarity in this--or any--video game. Designing around the assumption that players are going to be a) experienced and b) perfect seems like a approach that's guaranteed to fail.

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Originally Posted by Rosenoire

Sure, with practice, but in a party with a mentor who hasn't run it in months, and two sprouts running it for the first time, of course someone's going to mess up a mechanic. A dungeon run where everyone executes every mechanic perfectly is a rarity in this--or any--video game. Designing around the assumption that players are going to be a) experienced and b) perfect seems like a approach that's guaranteed to fail.

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Maybe, just maybe, there is space inbetween "all players are the worst and don't know anything" and "all players play perfect" and they could try to balance around that spot in the middle of these two extremes?

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Originally Posted by Rosenoire

Sure, with practice, but in a party with a mentor who hasn't run it in months, and two sprouts running it for the first time, of course someone's going to mess up a mechanic. A dungeon run where everyone executes every mechanic perfectly is a rarity in this--or any--video game. Designing around the assumption that players are going to be a) experienced and b) perfect seems like a approach that's guaranteed to fail.

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And it's equally foolish to assume players will always be stumbling and making frequent mistakes.

A diverse kit of both heals and DPS tools like tanks posses with their mit would allow us to adapt ourselves instead of only being relevant in one or the other situation

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

We already know how it'll play because there are no changes other than potencies at best, and the DT changes barely change how any job plays.

You don't need stellar players to clear without healer because shit barely hits and non healer sustain is at an all time high. In the video of the dungeon clear dps and tanks got hit and still cleared fine.

We barely weave any heals, easily 70-80% of our actions, including ogcd heals, are dps actions thats why we ask for changes. We want to have fun and if we what do the most is dpsing, we want a fun dps rotation.

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Again, it was done on a 3 to 4 month old media tour build. Who knows what it will actually be like on release when people start to play. Perhaps im just being hopeful!

First dungeon of Endwalker I sometimes get in roulettes and to this day people wipe. Maybe I am easy pleased.

I just dont think the same as some on this post and dislike when others try to speak on my behalf such as this thread. I am not part of the "concensus" nor will I be striking. Good luck with it though folks.

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

Even if Dawntrail manages to be a healer paradise, they've backed themselves into a corner by giving healers only heals, a nuke spells, and a DoT.

They cannot keep it up and even if they somehow do it won't make roulettes more interesting either. Jobs need to be baseline engaging and DPS tools that are always relevant is an obvious way to do it.

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All healers have more dps buttons than the dot and nuke. Some are getting more innDT. You do your cause a disservice and come across as disingenuous by pretending the other damage buttons don't exist. You may not have a robust rotation but over exaggeration is doing you no favors.

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Originally Posted by Giggle

Again, it was done on a 3 to 4 month old media tour build. Who knows what it will actually be like on release when people start to play. Perhaps im just being hopeful!

First dungeon of Endwalker I sometimes get in roulettes and to this day people wipe. Maybe I am easy pleased.

I just dont think the same as some on this post and dislike when others try to speak on my behalf such as this thread. I am not part of the "concensus" nor will I be striking. Good luck with it though folks.

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Dohn mheg was the ShB media tour dungeon and they nerfed the second boss from the media tour build. I mean it’s fine to be hopeful but we have literally no evidence of this other than just a hope because it supports a contrarian take

But please go ahead and play healers, we aren’t forcing you to strike with us, there is no picket line you are more than welcome to continue to play them, if you enjoy them we support you

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

All healers have more dps buttons than the dot and nuke. Some are getting more innDT. You do your cause a disservice and come across as disingenuous by pretending the other damage buttons don't exist. You may not have a robust rotation but over exaggeration is doing you no favors.

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The healer with the most complex rotation gets 8 GCD presses and 2 oGCD presses every TWO minutes outside their DOT and nuke, that is nothing in the grand scheme of things

Yeah SGE is getting a new button (that SCH should have had instead but thats another debate)
other healers got a new button to press 1-3 times every 2 minutes... it barely counts

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Originally Posted by Giggle

Wait...all this thread for a 3 to 4 month old build, without seeing and playing things yourself and based on the first MSQ dungeon being completed by Ultimate raiders with no healer?

Even in roulettes I need to heal or people die, not everyone plays well all the time. Yes dps rotation is simple but you weave heals throughout. If you just want to dps play a dps. I cant see the issue. Sorry.

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Oh another one of “these” posts (no offence but it’s the same text regurgitated 24/7)

Yes even I have to heal in dungeons (low lvl dungeon or when the tank is a drk or doesn’t have a clue what to do, which in itself is kinda rare these days) but the majority is not even close for the times I’m smashing a single button for 70-80 %. Like 90 % of the times I do tell people they can stand in aoe in dungeons so I have to do anything at all.

Like how do people can say this when you look at a spooky logs site and see whm having around 60 % glare casts and 10% dia casts and think it’s not a problem in a not even optimised parse even.

“But healer have to weave heals” yes and tanks weave defensive skill and dps entire ogcd rotations but they still have a decent number off things to do when these windows are over while I as a whm murder my 1 key.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I stated it earlier in the thread (probably about 125 pages back at this point).

Get stories from healer mains about what made them become a healer and what they want from healing and pass them to the developers, most likely via the more visible content creators that we know the developers watch. Include stories from all types of healers, happy and unhappy, entry level casual to experienced Savage/Ultimate. the content creators until now have mainly focused on Savage/Ultimate healing. A broader point of view needs to be presented because the developers have to take into consideration that broader point of view.

Don't approach things as "this is done wrong" and "only this will be acceptable as a solution". Instead approach the issues as "this is why I don't feel satisfied as a healer".

Understand and be willing to accept compromise on any changes made because different healers have different priorities. Understand and be willing to accept that if you're limiting yourself to content that is intended for healers below your skill level, there will always be a measure of dissatisfaction.

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I don't see the value of people of repeating their forum posts for content creators/devolpers. That critique can be found here. It is here. Even streamers and influensers are disagreeing with each other and the problems raised here. Some value purely being able to heal. Some would like more damage buttons. Are you suggesting healers should divide into teams behind their champion of preferred style? That will help even less. One thing I've heard is that there isn't that much healing at any difficulty. That should tell the devs enough. This thread has many people tell why they don't play healer anymore. That should be enough. Not to mention the links to other theads for reference.

So far there a lot of those who have had a knee jerk reaction to this thread, trolls and those who don't really play healers.

It seems your advice is to be more loud through creators and be more precise with your critique. That is partialy happening already as they are already making vidos about this thread and the subject. So it sounds like you suggest not really doing anything.

I disagree and don't think this is necessary to be honest. I am AST/WHM healer main and don't understand the need to go this far as to protest against what they have done with this role.

1. The streamers that clear content without a healer are Elitists. This is their job. They don't do anything else so they find ways to make it different and challenge themselves. For example, streamers that clear FFX with only using Wakka or whatever. This is what they do. This does not show anything other than they are bored. While , yes the dungeon can be cleared without a healer, how many people actually do this? 1%? Not enough to make Yoshi-P care in my opinion.

2. As far as the role being "boring" in dungeon content, this dungeon is a story one. The first one. Please tell me how many times you actually run a story dungeon more than once MAYBE twice in an expansion (outside of expert). The expert dungeons, tanks don't survive without a healer when big pulling. Also, the streamers running this dungeon probably spent their entire media tour slot playing this dungeon. So they knew the mechanics, didn't get hit and had a red mage and warrior. Get into a dungeon with someone who hasn't done it yet and the healer role is necessary, guaranteed. I do think they could add like an "Extreme" version of dungeons to maybe help with your need to heal in dungeons. Seems like you don't do much else...

3. I do agree that the healing potency of tanks need to be decreased. Definitely way too high for no reason.

4. In regards to "boring rotation", you would complain about not being able to maintain your rotation because you had to stop and heal. So pick your battles. New attacks were added this expansion and we don't need to make it complicated. Our job is not have the highest DPS, it's to heal and when we are doing end game content, healers are very necessary and relevant.

5. Are you the same people that complained about the grapes? If so, this would make a lot of sense.

6. With all this being said, I do understand your side and where you're coming from, but I don't think it's necessary based on one media tour dungeon that a group of Elitists streamed. Give the expansion some time to show off what it has created and then form a formal strike or whatever. This is like seeing one FATE and then throwing your hands up saying, "I knew it! They only have collection fates now! I am done!" Calm down, talk to your therapist, it's going to be ok.

In the meantime, thank you in advance for the quick queues, higher numbers for healer DPS, space in ultimate groups, and much more. Best of luck in Dawntrail!

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

All healers have more dps buttons than the dot and nuke. Some are getting more innDT. You do your cause a disservice and come across as disingenuous by pretending the other damage buttons don't exist. You may not have a robust rotation but over exaggeration is doing you no favors.

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When you count aoe as a dmg buttons sure but I’m pretty sure astro only really has 2 single target buttons while king is a ogcd I minute cd (with backed in rng so you maybe not get one for 4 mins). Sgn in dt will be the only healer with 2 dots and 3 single target buttons ( one is a 1min cd so you gonna to it on cd anyway) while every other healer gets to use a single button (whm 3 times so of course way cooler /s) every bloody 2 mins and people have the audacity to say we get more intresting dmg buttons while it’s just double press this button every 2 mins because it’s buff aligned already hur dur.

^do you people genuinely not even look at what you are commenting on or what we are giving feedback on

1) I’m a healer main, I got a group of friends together that are decidedly average and I went onto WAR (I play WAR so little I don’t even have my hotbars set up for it), we 1T3D every dungeon in DT near effortlessly, I actively chased vuln stacks in the Expert dingeoms, the bosses couldn’t touch me on 8 stacks, I physically wasn’t allowed to die. And I am not a good tank

2)you go through it every time you get it in a roulette and no tanks don’t need healers in expert because we are only ever allowed to pull 2 packs and tank healing is ridiculous, try it yourself, you can solo aetherfont on WAR or PLD hilariously easily

4) nobody has ever asked for breakable rotations on healers

5) this has no relevance to anything

6) when have they ever deviated from their designs in a new expansion

Yoshi P just said in the LL he wants to put the "Expert" back in Expert Roulette. How come he can see a need for this if dungeons are functioning as intended and only special elitists can clear them with unique comps?

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Originally Posted by Minali

Maybe, just maybe, there is space inbetween "all players are the worst and don't know anything" and "all players play perfect" and they could try to balance around that spot in the middle of these two extremes?

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Sure, but the person I responded to was arguing that healers only have relevance when players screw up, and once they learn the fight then healers have nothing to do.

Once again, I'm not saying that there aren't issues with healing that should be addressed. I'm saying that "healers aren't needed because other roles have too many self-heals" is not generally the case, at least in my experience. Healers are always going to be needed because even WAR can't survive certain mechanics. I absolutely support healers getting a better DPS rotation, and changes to encounters, especially in higher-end content, to make healing a more interesting role. I'm not in favor of taking away the self-healing for tanks as a solution to the problems with the healing role.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

^do you people genuinely not even look at what you are commenting on or what we are giving feedback on

1) I’m a healer main, I got a group of friends together that are decidedly average and I went onto WAR (I play WAR so little I don’t even have my hotbars set up for it), we 1T3D every dungeon in DT near effortlessly, I actively chased vuln stacks in the Expert dingeoms, the bosses couldn’t touch me on 8 stacks, I physically wasn’t allowed to die. And I am not a good tank

2)you go through it every time you get it in a roulette and no tanks don’t need healers in expert because we are only ever allowed to pull 2 packs and tank healing is ridiculous, try it yourself, you can solo aetherfont on WAR or PLD hilariously easily

4) nobody has ever asked for breakable rotations on healers

5) this has no relevance to anything

6) when have they ever deviated from their designs in a new expansion

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I play with casuals too, and we do roulettes with 3 dps and War.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

We just barely have a function anymore

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That depends on who you play with and what content you're doing.

I was running Innocence EX (unsynced) last night with my Marilith FC and some friends of the FC because they wanted to mount farm (I already have the mount, was just there to help). I got to play Glare Mage for about the first 20 seconds of each kill before all hell would break loose and about the only damage I could squeeze in was the occasional Dia, Assize on CD and Misery (and the lilies couldn't come fast enough). Yes, I needed to use GCD heals on top of oGCDs. I even did a bit of tanking as WHM while the MT was having issues with their internet connection (there was a second tank that never bothered to turn on their tank stance at all even with the MT's connection issues).

Last week I had a Tower of Zot run where the tank did not use their defensives at all. That's the sort of thing normally seen with new tanks in ARR content, not from a level 84 tank yet there it was.

Occasionally, I fill in PFs listed by players trying to get the level 90 MSQ trials completed without long waits in Duty Finder. I've been using the healer LB3 a lot because some of these PFs are half filled with first timers who don't know the mechanics. I want them to get to participate, not watch as 2 Warriors and I take another 5-7 minutes to kill the boss without them.

Even when things are going right, there will be players to heal. It may not be as frequent but it's still there and I'm interweaving the heals with my DPS. I'm not sitting there pressing just one button all the time. I could probably count on one hand the number of times when I've been matched to players so good that healing was not needed at all.

But those occasions do tell me that other healers who spend more time playing with the good players will end up bored. Most normal content has very little unavoidable damage to party members other than the tanks, and tanks have the tools they need to take care of themselves (when they bother to use them properly).

Party wide unavoidable damage needs to be more frequent. It doesn't have to be a brutal amount that keeps a healer spamming their GCDs once their oGCDs run out but it needs to be there. Just as DPS want a health bar with lots of health to empty out, healers need partially emptied party health bars to fill back up. Not much fun to be a healer when those health bars never empty out enough to need any healing.

More random damage to single party members at time would also be welcome. Part of the fun of healing is reacting to what is happening and keeping an eye on health bars to toss out that heal to the player that suddenly lost half their HP. Again, the amount doesn't have to be brutal. It doesn't have to be high pressure "heal them full now because they're going to die in 5 seconds if you don't" in normal content. But it needs to happen enough to keep us on our toes as healers.

If we've got something to heal more often than not, we're not going to be worried about what DPS tools are in our kit.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

I play with casuals too, and we do roulettes with 3 dps and War.

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Casual is really a useless word because it means so many different things to different people.

Skill is what is relevant here. There are skilled players who know what to do competently though not optimally. There are highly skilled players who know how to play optimally. There are lesser skilled players who for whatever reason don't use things in their toolkits that they should. Then there are the unskilled players who are still trying to figure out what to do.

You're not playing with casuals. You're playing with skilled players or better. But they're not representative of the entire player base. No single small group of players is.

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Originally Posted by kyyninen_kirahvi

I don't see the value of people of repeating their forum posts for content creators/devolpers. That critique can be found here. It is here. Even streamers and influensers are disagreeing with each other and the problems raised here. Some value purely being able to heal. Some would like more damage buttons. Are you suggesting healers should divide into teams behind their champion of preferred style? That will help even less. One thing I've heard is that there isn't that much healing at any difficulty. That should tell the devs enough. This thread has many people tell why they don't play healer anymore. That should be enough. Not to mention the links to other theads for reference.

So far there a lot of those who have had a knee jerk reaction to this thread, trolls and those who don't really play healers.

It seems your advice is to be more loud through creators and be more precise with your critique. That is partialy happening already as they are already making vidos about this thread and the subject. So it sounds like you suggest not really doing anything.

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I'm not asking them to repeat their forum posts.

I'm saying get their personal stories as healers. Who's been posting their personal story as healer? All I see is a bunch of healers saying they're bored.

Bring the human side of things into the picture, not just the critiques of what you personally feel is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

1) I’m a healer main, I got a group of friends together that are decidedly average and I went onto WAR (I play WAR so little I don’t even have my hotbars set up for it), we 1T3D every dungeon in DT near effortlessly, I actively chased vuln stacks in the Expert dingeoms, the bosses couldn’t touch me on 8 stacks, I physically wasn’t allowed to die. And I am not a good tank

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Are you certain they're only "average"? Also, I think you mean EW, not DT.

You're also demonstrating the problem with tanks, not a problem with healers. Still, not every tank is going to perform that well. They may not have gear at the same ilvl as you. Some tanks barely hit min ilvl requirements, which currently would be 620 for Expert right now. Players in 650+ will have a substantially easier time due to increased damage dealt, increased HP and increased defense rating on the gear. They may not have a good grasp of how to rotate through their defensive CDs. They may not be doing their combos properly to keep up the passive self-healing/shields.

Yes, good players are going to have it easy in any dungeons outside of Criterion. Average or lesser players aren't. And that is why they need healers even if your friends don't.

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Originally Posted by BlyzardEntialpoh

I disagree and don't think this is necessary to be honest. I am AST/WHM healer main and don't understand the need to go this far as to protest against what they have done with this role.

1. The streamers that clear content without a healer are Elitists. This is their job. They don't do anything else so they find ways to make it different and challenge themselves. For example, streamers that clear FFX with only using Wakka or whatever. This is what they do. This does not show anything other than they are bored. While , yes the dungeon can be cleared without a healer, how many people actually do this? 1%? Not enough to make Yoshi-P care in my opinion.

2. As far as the role being "boring" in dungeon content, this dungeon is a story one. The first one. Please tell me how many times you actually run a story dungeon more than once MAYBE twice in an expansion (outside of expert). The expert dungeons, tanks don't survive without a healer when big pulling. Also, the streamers running this dungeon probably spent their entire media tour slot playing this dungeon. So they knew the mechanics, didn't get hit and had a red mage and warrior. Get into a dungeon with someone who hasn't done it yet and the healer role is necessary, guaranteed. I do think they could add like an "Extreme" version of dungeons to maybe help with your need to heal in dungeons. Seems like you don't do much else...

3. I do agree that the healing potency of tanks need to be decreased. Definitely way too high for no reason.

4. In regards to "boring rotation", you would complain about not being able to maintain your rotation because you had to stop and heal. So pick your battles. New attacks were added this expansion and we don't need to make it complicated. Our job is not have the highest DPS, it's to heal and when we are doing end game content, healers are very necessary and relevant.

5. Are you the same people that complained about the grapes? If so, this would make a lot of sense.

6. With all this being said, I do understand your side and where you're coming from, but I don't think it's necessary based on one media tour dungeon that a group of Elitists streamed. Give the expansion some time to show off what it has created and then form a formal strike or whatever. This is like seeing one FATE and then throwing your hands up saying, "I knew it! They only have collection fates now! I am done!" Calm down, talk to your therapist, it's going to be ok.

In the meantime, thank you in advance for the quick queues, higher numbers for healer DPS, space in ultimate groups, and much more. Best of luck in Dawntrail!

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1. I am casual casual so I don't run the hardest content tbh, but the number of times I have to sit for 20 min dead in a dungeon because the tank decides to one shot a boss, well, lets just say there is a reason why I have things next to me to play with while I wait when I queue as a healer.

2. I mean, I run then all the time so I guess I don't see this point.

3. Ty~ Though, and I can't talk for everyone this is just a compromise from me, I would be happiest with a rotation that doens't put me to sleep~

4. Oh! Good timing, actually this is my issue! There isn't enough variety so if the game is leaning into "do a rotation with occasional Ogcd's", then please make it interesting. Otherwise, ya bring the chaos cause any disruptions to the "rotations" just leads to actual healer gameplay for me.

5. g....grapes?

6. I mean, I do see your point as well. This is one dungeon from the variety that will become available. I think that peoples hold on this subject is just that, since this is the new "max level", then how can it be possible without maxed out BiS gear to do this dungeon without proper support? Idk, that just seems to be my viewpoint on it so I do see both sides with this tbh.

I hope you enjoy the quick healer queues! Tbh, it just puts me to sleep anymore so I hope you enjoy it! I am gonna enjoy some of the other content I need to catch up on and maybe learn so new things as well~

honestly if y'all really want this to be effective, it needs to be twofold

in addition to not playing healer in dungeons/trials via DF, probably need to actively make "no healer PFs" for DT dungeons and trials as well

cuz an upper tier tank can easily carry a subpar scab healer through leveling dungeons... thus upper tier tanks and dps should be encouraged to clear the content with "no healer" as a challenge (and to further prove a point) so that the lack of upper tier healers, tanks, and dps will all be felt in the DF

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Originally Posted by Rowde

honestly if y'all really want this to be effective, it needs to be twofold

in addition to not playing healer in dungeons/trials via DF, probably need to actively make "no healer PFs" for DT dungeons and trials as well

cuz an upper tier tank can easily carry a subpar scab healer through leveling dungeons... thus upper tier tanks and dps should be encouraged to clear the content with "no healer" as a challenge (and to further prove a point) so that the lack of upper tier healers, tanks, and dps will all be felt in the DF

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You reaaaally don't need to be a good tank player to go in with 3 dps and a War.
We do it all the time and i don't even play the tank in that group. I just told the guy playing tank to press blood whetting on cooldown and cycle everything else.

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Originally Posted by BlyzardEntialpoh

!

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1. These world 1 player did play like absolute monkeys and forgot to pull some abilities in the hotbar and still had almost no problems (nin had 4 vuln stacks before dying so these world first gamers are really showing us how to do it)

2.as said before normally the 1 story dungeons beats the snoot out of you (you can test this and fact check it pretty easy when you would do holminster or tower of zot like people that actually use dungeons for healer lvl or getting a random Roulette)

3 and they still doubled down on this since endwalker were it was obscene.

4 Again the “Combo would break when you have to heal”. It’s doesn’t for a decent number of jobs plus we don’t even wanna combos and just more dots and other small things.

5 was a fun meme afterwards so pretty much a win

6 oh for f sake, here we go again with the “wait until” same stuff since shadowbringer. We wait since 5 years and nothing changed and even worse they double down on this trash fire of a role.

AST's rework was the last straw for me. I could tolerate the malefic mashing because I had cards to optimise and think about in ShB and even EW when it got simplified. Having the 2 minute window where you had to weave all your 3 cards out, 2 Lords (if lucky), astrodyne, divination + earthly star was enough mental engagement to ease the boredom of the 11111131111 rotation outside the 2 minutes. Part of that rotation included the card type and seal mini-game, which created a rotation that wasn't always fixed or scripted - I loved that, and no other healer offered something as intensive and thought invoking as it.

Now the rework is taking all of that away, so I can have more OGCD healing tools that will take any further thought or complexity to optimise after the initial stages of prog. I'll be joining the strike, and will not play healer on patch - and when I have to eventually level them for my high-end static group, I will use trusts to ensure it impacts the DF queues, because I am tired of seeing my role being eroded more and more every expansion. Can anybody else including DPS + tanks just use the trust system? Sure, but then the trinity system based game has failed and SE will have to address it.

Something needs to be done. A complete rework is impossible until 8.0, but there's no reason why they couldn't take these new cooldowns they're giving to us and make them shorter so it reduces the 1111 mashing. Look at Sage which would be the easiest to tackle: make Phlegma 20s cd, Psyche a 30s cd, the new DOT 15s and BOOM: easy and quick improvement. Now you have 2 DOTS to manage on different timers, and 2 other DPS buttons to press every 20-30s. Adjust potencies to compensate for shorter cooldowns.

The developers refusing to make improvements to the healer role is just pathetic and unacceptable. They've had several years to hear feedback and improve on it, and a new DPS button to press 1-3 times every 2 minutes IS NOT the solution we wanted. Them wasting dev resources and time to make medica 3 equivalents across all roles is another noche of how tone deaf they are, imagine if they spent that skill on something we actually wanted? crazy

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Originally Posted by LyraShu

1. I am casual casual so I don't run the hardest content tbh, but the number of times I have to sit for 20 min dead in a dungeon because the tank decides to one shot a boss, well, lets just say there is a reason why I have things next to me to play with while I wait when I queue as a healer.

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I have also seen this behavior and it's why some TNKs don't want change, I think. Sone tanks generally play dungeons like this even when the party is alive. Everyone else is just following a WAR mowing down the dungeon. Engaging role for me, but not thee, as they say.

Instances desperately need a “vote wipe” button if they refuse to nerf tank sustain

I know more than one person who’s first experience of asura was ruined because everyone died at 80% and the tanks just soloed her from then robbing everyone of the experience

And it’s not even like the tanks are good players it’s just tanks take so little damage in this game, even with no mitigation a tank takes less damage with 6 vuln stacks than a DPS does normally. The tanks just aren’t allowed to die in casual content. Seriously queue as a tank into aetherfont and just plant yourself in one spot at the last boss and never move, you will not die, the game just will not kill you. It’s hilariously unbalanced

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Originally Posted by BlyzardEntialpoh

snip

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You are allowed to disagree but some of this is just objectively not true, the last time I ran a story dungeon was about 3 hours ago actually, leveling up Gunbreaker, they are expected to be ran repeatedly. WAR can 100% sustain themselves if not standing in orange puddles or it's like Mt Gulg.

I'd particularly like to address 4) because it's very disingenuous to play the "they say X but mean Y" game, no we actually just mean X, we aren't children.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Instances desperately need a “vote wipe” button if they refuse to nerf tank sustain

I know more than one person who’s first experience of asura was ruined because everyone died at 80% and the tanks just soloed her from then robbing everyone of the experience

And it’s not even like the tanks are good players it’s just tanks take so little damage in this game, even with no mitigation a tank takes less damage with 6 vuln stacks than a DPS does normally. The tanks just aren’t allowed to die in casual content. Seriously queue as a tank into aetherfont and just plant yourself in one spot at the last boss and never move, you will not die, the game just will not kill you. It’s hilariously unbalanced

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It’s the Elden ring “let me solo her” meme but in bad. And not fun

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Originally Posted by BlyzardEntialpoh

I disagree and don't think this is necessary to be honest. I am AST/WHM healer main and don't understand the need to go this far as to protest against what they have done with this role.

1. The streamers that clear content without a healer are Elitists. This is their job. They don't do anything else so they find ways to make it different and challenge themselves. For example, streamers that clear FFX with only using Wakka or whatever. This is what they do. This does not show anything other than they are bored. While , yes the dungeon can be cleared without a healer, how many people actually do this? 1%? Not enough to make Yoshi-P care in my opinion.

2. As far as the role being "boring" in dungeon content, this dungeon is a story one. The first one. Please tell me how many times you actually run a story dungeon more than once MAYBE twice in an expansion (outside of expert). The expert dungeons, tanks don't survive without a healer when big pulling. Also, the streamers running this dungeon probably spent their entire media tour slot playing this dungeon. So they knew the mechanics, didn't get hit and had a red mage and warrior. Get into a dungeon with someone who hasn't done it yet and the healer role is necessary, guaranteed. I do think they could add like an "Extreme" version of dungeons to maybe help with your need to heal in dungeons. Seems like you don't do much else...

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You don't need to be a high end world first raider to clear dungeons with out a healer. My friends and myself have done every 90 dungeon on parch day with out a healer. People have cleared ex trials with out a healer while the trial was still relevant. Heck people have even cleared savage fight this expansion, with out a healer, while it was still current and relevant. And you don't see an issue with that? As a tank main, I shoukd not be able to wall to wall pull a max level dungeon, with out a healer, and be perfectly okay, and not even be worried a bit about dying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Instances desperately need a “vote wipe” button if they refuse to nerf tank sustain

I know more than one person who’s first experience of asura was ruined because everyone died at 80% and the tanks just soloed her from then robbing everyone of the experience

And it’s not even like the tanks are good players it’s just tanks take so little damage in this game, even with no mitigation a tank takes less damage with 6 vuln stacks than a DPS does normally. The tanks just aren’t allowed to die in casual content. Seriously queue as a tank into aetherfont and just plant yourself in one spot at the last boss and never move, you will not die, the game just will not kill you. It’s hilariously unbalanced

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It's genuinely just bizarre to me that we can't nerf jobs that can only ever die to oneshots because of sustain, and then the game never lets anything oneshot you outside of some savage mechanic that just requires 2 ogcd weaves to cut the damage down to irrelevancy. But then other jobs can be nerfed just fine without any problem.

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Originally Posted by Nikala

i dont think you know what a protest is

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If your definition of a protest is akin to climate alarmists blocking highways that in turn prevent emergency vehicles from getting through, vandalism of historic figures, and gluing yourself to tennis courts. Then you're correct, this is not a protest.

I'll say it again, the #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE is not intended to disrupt the game. It is a collective effort of individuals choosing to not participate in duties as a healer. This is well within compliance of terms based on the ToS, and they are doing it of their own free will. I, we are not obligated to fill the queues playing a role we currently do not enjoy playing.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

Once again proving the Ego to Skill ratio of FFXIV healers is the biggest in all of MMO gaming.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I'm not asking them to repeat their forum posts.

I'm saying get their personal stories as healers. Who's been posting their personal story as healer? All I see is a bunch of healers saying they're bored.

Bring the human side of things into the picture, not just the critiques of what you personally feel is wrong.

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this, I am going to say is misleading. you post on the forums enough. online forums are, at best, dumpster fires. you KNOW this.

so now, your suggestion, because the suggestion about reasonable posts with examples and things that have been ignored for years didnt fly, is for people to open themselves up for the rampant trolls and post "personal stories on why they are healers"?

ooookay. thanks for the advice.....

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Originally Posted by ClaudeHerel

Once again proving the Ego to Skill ratio of FFXIV healers is the biggest in all of MMO gaming.

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So it’s ego to say we are sick of being ignored and just won’t play this dumpster fire of a role but it’s not ego to expect people who dont enjoy the role to continue to play it to fill the queues of others

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Originally Posted by ClaudeHerel

Once again proving the Ego to Skill ratio of FFXIV healers is the biggest in all of MMO gaming.

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source: trust me, bruh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Instances desperately need a “vote wipe” button if they refuse to nerf tank sustain

I know more than one person who’s first experience of asura was ruined because everyone died at 80% and the tanks just soloed her from then robbing everyone of the experience

And it’s not even like the tanks are good players it’s just tanks take so little damage in this game, even with no mitigation a tank takes less damage with 6 vuln stacks than a DPS does normally. The tanks just aren’t allowed to die in casual content. Seriously queue as a tank into aetherfont and just plant yourself in one spot at the last boss and never move, you will not die, the game just will not kill you. It’s hilariously unbalanced

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A "Wipe?" vote is actually a cool idea. When I play tank and happen to be the last person standing for a while, it might be fun to check if I would be able to do it, but I'm only going for it when the boss is at maybe 10% or so, because I know it is boring for others. However, I also had people be mad at me for not trying to wing it when I was another role and just didn't realize there was a small chance to get people back up and jumped off the platform for a reset. Having an option to check, like the "Replenish Ranks?" thing or Ready Check or so would be pretty neat, unrelated to unbalanced jobs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ClaudeHerel

Once again proving the Ego to Skill ratio of FFXIV healers is the biggest in all of MMO gaming.

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Let’s be real here ff 14 healer have not a really high skill ceiling so any normal human with a normal ego will win this competition if you wanna call it one.

I mean why would personal stories even be more powerful than any of the indepth gameplay feedback people have posted? What would make them more valuable than the analyses that have been meticulously provided to the devs over years?
I'd think that as devs mechanical and design-related feedback should help them more to actually address issues.

Sure, I can write about why I love the challenge of unpredictableness, the great feeling when everything goes wrong and you can pull the group up again, the fact that I recently had a Tsukuyomi run where first-timers died constantly and my co healer and I were busy as hell, while we only had our limited lvl 70 tools. That was the most fun trial I had in a long time. Or how I love the multifaceted responsibility in pvp by providing healing, damages and buffs, forcing me to be always on my toes, always keep different aspects of the fight in mind, develop a good game awareness and quick analytical skills.
That this challenge of novelty is what entices me about this role.

But how would this feedback be more convincing than telling the devs in detail what exactly we take issue with and how they could fix it?

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

this, I am going to say is misleading. you post on the forums enough. online forums are, at best, dumpster fires. you KNOW this.

so now, your suggestion, because the suggestion about reasonable posts with examples and things that have been ignored for years didnt fly, is for people to open themselves up for the rampant trolls and post "personal stories on why they are healers"?

ooookay. thanks for the advice.....

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I can already see it now.

If someone is naive enough to follow this advice and open up about their personal stories on the forums, the replies would be stuff like:
"Ok, didn't ask"
"This isn't your blog"
"No one asked for your life story"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ClaudeHerel

Once again proving the Ego to Skill ratio of FFXIV healers is the biggest in all of MMO gaming.

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I think the game would look a lot better if it was an ego problem. That would imply they're at least proud of what they can do with the role.
The entire problem is that healers are too dumbed down and uninteresting to play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loggos

I mean why would personal stories even be more powerful than any of the indepth gameplay feedback people have provided? What would make them more valuable than the analyses that have been meticulously provided to the devs over years?
I'd think that as devs mechanical and design-related feedback should help them more to actually address issues.

Sure, I can write about why I love the challenge of unpredictableness, the great feeling when everything goes wrong and you can pull the group up again, the fact that I recently had a Tsukuyomi run where first-timers died constantly and my co healer and I were busy as hell, while we only had our limited lvl 70 tools. That was the most fun trial I had in a long time. Or how I love the multifaceted responsibility in pvp by providing healing, damages and buffs, forcing me to be always on my toes, always keep different aspects of the fight in mind, develop a good game awareness and quick analytical skills.
That this challenge of novelty is what entices me about this role.

But how would this feedback be more convincing than telling the devs in detail what exactly we take issue with and how they could fix it?

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it won't.

cause the naysayers' point just boils down to "sit down, shut up, and queue as healer so my duty will pop, only dps and tanks matter", and none of the 6 years of feedback has ever done enough to bring attention to this. its why healers choosing to leave the role in any sort of coordinated effort are simultaneously "whiny/entitled" as well as "devious masterminds holding the playerbase hostage".

its why the strike (that hasn't even started yet) is simultaneously "useless" and "going to destroy queues".

its why "square enix won't listen to us" but also "we should make an effort to beg people who already openly hate healer mains to give us nice publicity" (when we know people like kayokostar were never going to do anything other than feed harassment brigades and just generally be nasty).

"don't give feedback on the forums" while the forums are where we are told to give feedback by square enix.

"give feedback but politely" points to the 6 years of feedback in the healer forums from the start of the issues

we did!

but the naysayers don't want us to actually do any of the things they suggest. what they want is for us to well... what i said up there at the top. "sit down, shut up, fill our queues" with a nice heap of "the problem only exists because its being spoken about, speaking about the problem is willing it into existence!"