Question for the people who don't dislike the 2nd relic step

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

How about you come back and say that once the Expansion is over? Consider there are 3-4 more steps in the process this is a premature conclusion at best.

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We're already at the halfway point of the relic. There's two remaining additions to the quest chain, one in 6.45 and the other in 6.55. You also have to keep in mind that the x.55 additions of the relic weapons have generally been more like victory laps. Like the Anima Lux trials victory lap, the Hydatos step needing significantly less crystals compared to the previous steps, and the Blade's step only needing 15 Raw Emotions (at 3 per Dalriada clear).

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

How about you come back and say that once the Expansion is over? Consider there are 3-4 more steps in the process this is a premature conclusion at best.

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just wait till 6.3.5 guys it gets better
just wait till 6.4.5 guys it gets better
just wait till 6.5.5 guys it gets better
just wait till next expansion guys it gets better
just wait till first patch guys it gets better
and the cycle of excuses goes on

I mean it's a lazy dog shit step, but I don't mind it in the sense that we're free to farm the tomes in any way we want. It's just w/e for me.

I knew we weren't getting another Bozja/Eureka this expac but I expected something more than...this.

As someone who's only ever heard of the legendary long grinds Relics take (and haven't made a start on any of them myself), I was low-key looking forward to experiencing the newest one step-by-step, patch by patch. I hate Hunt Trains, and lately my schedule has gotten extremely busy so I've not been able to manage much more than a couple Roulettes a day - so while it's a "relief" that the new Relic grind at least for my main Job isn't super unachievable or will not need me to spend much more time than a week, I definitely don't see myself kitting out my other Jobs' Relics anytime soon (maybe not even when the next step is revealed).

While "1500 Astronomies again" looks like a lazy route for SQEX to have designed, I suppose if you don't go for the most efficient route you can see it as, everything bleeds those Tomestones. Doing the new Deep Dungeon, I saw that the floor sets give Astronomy too. Roulettes (if you're cap) and cap-level dungeons give them as well. Hunt Trains do. IMO it's really the path that you decide to take with the farm that makes it fun or tedious copy-paste grind. In the context of "repeat FATEs over and over and over" and "get funneled into a zone that you may/may not struggle to progress if you're late", it seems like the middle SQEX tried to find.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

How about you come back and say that once the Expansion is over? Consider there are 3-4 more steps in the process this is a premature conclusion at best.

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The expansion is 2/3 over at this point.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Doubly so because every relic since ARR has had some REALLY grindy and annoying things to do to power them up. We're only on Step 2 out of likely 5-7 steps.

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There are only 2 more major patches to come. This relic will have 5 weapon models at best and that's if they add a recolor to the last step in 6.55. Otherwise it will be 4 steps in total, half of which are identical and just tomestones.

I was surprised, but I'm pretty indifferent otherwise. I was willing to do another FATE grind -- I'm a relatively new player, but I've completed all my shared FATEs, and I did what I had to do for my SHB relic -- but I won't pretend that I complained about the near-handout lol.

But you get what you pay for, I guess, because I was so excited after I liked the chakrams' initial look -- I thought, "Awesome! The upgrade's just gonna be the same thing but with cool VFX!" And then they made the upgrade silver, which doesn't work with my current glam... Heartbroken. u_u

The replica was cheap, at least.

I don't see the point in adding any grind steps for Relic weapons. Grind steps are merely there to feel fresh for current players whom has reached end game, but its a slog for newer players whom came into FF14 in later expansions. Sprouts are not encouraged to do ARR relic until they're done with Heavensward(free trial)/Endwalker MSQ because the priority is always to play at the same content where majority of the populace is now. Veterans are not incentivized to help sprouts do FATEs in these low level areas because there's no system in place like the Duty Roulette, which gives daily rewards. So even if the sprout wants to take it slow and do these stuff instead of rushing MSQ, it's pretty much either a solo grind or a couple of friends out there willing to do it with them. So what is the merit of these open world grinds in the first place? Open up PF and see it for yourself, it'll be a friggin miracle if the number of FATE parties could make a scrollable page.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

I think you're missing the point of the relic weapons. The game generally had three paths to obtaining a weapon at a decent/good iLvl:

Long term path: Relic weapon. A mindless grind that just about anyone could complete, as long as they're able to put in the time.
Semi-short term path: Savage/Augmented tomestone weapon. Requiring the player to be skilled enough to clear the 2nd/3rd floor, or the 4th one on Savage.
Short term path: Extreme trial weapon. The in-between option. Lower difficulty than Savage, but requiring more skill than a mindless grind would.

Turning the relic weapon steps into something that can be completed with two days worth of roulettes removes the long term aspect of it. Along with the reason for this path to even exist in the first place.
At that point, you might as well just add a second augment option for the crafted weapon. Obtain the crafted weapon with the even numbered patch, augment it in the odd numbered patch, augment it again two months after said odd numbered patch.

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Not quite. Every relic has had short and long steps. The 60 FATEs in HW areas for the Resistance Weapons? You could grind that in a couple hours. Getting the base ARR Relic? Go to your designated location, find the weathered version, kill a few enemies, a few tomestones and the vessel weapon, then Chimera/Hydra/Amdapor and you're set. Again, it only ever took a couple hours and you were basically still just running dungeons and trials. Now.. I'd love to have Relic-specific trials again, but that's a different topic. HW weapons? If you made a Zeta for the same job you didn't even have to do the first step, which wasn't even that bad and also took only a few hours of FATE grinding.

My point is that there have always been short and long steps.
There will be long steps ahead, don't you worry about that.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

just wait till 6.3.5 guys it gets better
just wait till 6.4.5 guys it gets better
just wait till 6.5.5 guys it gets better
just wait till next expansion guys it gets better
just wait till first patch guys it gets better
and the cycle of excuses goes on

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Not going to lie, I prefer it this way honestly. And you sure can expect that once we come to the stat allocation step, you likely need a few dozen of items - Which you will get via tomestone again.

And I can get those by doing any level 90 content instead of sleeping through Syrus Tower/Void Ark/Rabanastre/very specific lower level dungeons X times in a row.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Does that sound better to you?

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Tbh it's not that I was hoping for a cartoonishly grueling grind instead, I wouldn't mind a short step. But I was hoping for something different, y'know?
I took a break from the game before because my routine became "do roulettes, spam lvl 90 duties/hunt trains, then leave" for crafting mats. Coming back expecting a breath of fresh air and getting hit with "do roulettes, spam lvl 90 duties/hunt trains, then leave" again left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially comparing it to the previous expansion's relic questline.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

just wait till 6.3.5 guys it gets better
just wait till 6.4.5 guys it gets better
just wait till 6.5.5 guys it gets better
just wait till next expansion guys it gets better
just wait till first patch guys it gets better
and the cycle of excuses goes on

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man it really feels like I've been through this same song and dance before

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Relics quests are not needed to revive older content. Roulettes do that already. All relic grinds did was force players to do older content, which they complained about high and low, east to west. Now for some reason they want to do that?

For ARR, obviously you had to do current content since it was the base game after 1.0. But even HW relics grinds threw you into current content, even having to best the Warring Triad once again in order to finish it off. Relics started becoming less and less relevant along with the release of more expansions. Even in ShB where players could do Bozja, had alternatives to run old content if they wanted to do it that way. They made a big blunder here considering players could farm memories with a 100% drop rate from HW FATEs. They had to increase the rewards for instances like DR just to get players to run the damn thing after they completed it the first time.

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Just as an example of what I mean, because I was not addressing the grind specifically: Unlocking Bozja requires clearing all 3 of the level 70 alliance raids, incentivicing people to UNLOCK those, who would otherwise have not.
More players with unlocked level 70 alliance raids translate into a higher chance of not getting Crystal Tower raids on alliance roulettes.

Roulettes by themselves cannot revive older OPTIONAL content, if there is no incentive for players to unlock said content in the first place. Why is alliance roulette Crystal Tower most of the time?
- Because it is forced story content that everyone doing alliance roulette has to have already unlocked by design.
- Because those raids have the lowest level and itemlevel entry requirements.

Currently these are the reasons to unlock optional older content:
- Curiosity and Interest in their lore
- Glamour
- Completionism

Adding more bullet points to the second list was something the relics used to acomplish better. This time around they only increase the amount of players who did Hildibrand's Quest, which at most can affect trial roulettes. Those do not suffer from the same issue both raid roulettes do though, because many trials are tied to the MSQ anyways.

it's quick and easy and you have a lot more options on how you want to get it done vs grind x fates in y zone / grind x raid y times. it's way better this way

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Originally Posted by SomeGuy22

(I swear to God this isn't a troll thread)

Why?

I'm pretty baffled that some players are defending the implementation of this step, and I want to get your reasoning for it. Is it because it isn't a grind that is set in stone (e.g run x raid y amount of times)? Does the step being the same as the first one not bother you? Do you not mind it, but wish it was somehow different? I just want to know/understand.

I know that the forum's cluttered with the topic, but I figured that a thread specifically for this question wouldn't (hopefully) instantly devolve into flame wars and name calling.

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I like it because it introduces another degree of variety to the game. There’s now relics for both kinds of players - grind enjoyers and casual players.

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Originally Posted by Tulvi

I like it because it introduces another degree of variety to the game. There’s now relics for both kinds of players - grind enjoyers and casual players.

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yeah because doing 2 hours of hunt trains is such a huge grind... lmao

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

yeah because doing 2 hours of hunt trains is such a huge grind... lmao

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I haven't done hunt trains in... Years...



"lmao, doing 2 hours of fate trains is such a huge grind"



About all it takes for the fate steps.



Or any grind really. The longest grind in eureka was leveling. After that, easy.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

yeah because doing 2 hours of hunt trains is such a huge grind... lmao

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Is there some reason you think the people who enjoy this step exclusively do hunt trains? Nobody I know who likes this step has ever done hunts even once.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Is there some reason you think the people who enjoy this step exclusively do hunt trains? Nobody I know who likes this step has ever done hunts even once.

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Why would you not do hunt trains for it ? Is there an artificial reason why you should go at the slowest pace possible ?

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Why would you not do hunt trains for it ? Is there an artificial reason why you should go at the slowest pace possible ?

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Because hunt trains are not always up and available, obviously.

There hasn't been one on Chaos for the past 90 minutes, for example

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Why would you not do hunt trains for it ? Is there an artificial reason why you should go at the slowest pace possible ?

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Because some people don't like hunts? Because people want to "farm" the tomes in a way that is more agreeable to them? Because not everybody is looking for the most optimal method to completion. I like these steps because I can do basically whatever high level content I want and make passive progress. The point is that it does not require dedicated focus.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Because some people don't like hunts? Because people want to "farm" the tomes in a way that is more agreeable to them? Because not everybody is looking for the most optimal method to completion. I like these steps because I can do basically whatever high level content I want and make passive progress. The point is that it does not require dedicated focus.

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That's literally like those people saying that islands are supposed to be done at a very slow pace, it's a pretty ridiculous argument, slowing on purpose to make it last longer does not make it better content

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

That's literally like those people saying that islands are supposed to be done at a very slow pace, it's a pretty ridiculous argument, slowing on purpose to make it last longer does not make it better content

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So in that case brayflox hm was the epitomy of good content then.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

That's literally like those people saying that islands are supposed to be done at a very slow pace, it's a pretty ridiculous argument, slowing on purpose to make it last longer does not make it better content

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You're missing the point entirely then. It's not about extending the content it's about enjoying it in whatever way a person chooses. People don't have to do the most optimal strategy. They can take it slow and there is no penalty. I've been slowly making progress while doing mentor roulette. I don't have to get tomestones at a fast rate. I'm perfectly fine getting them at whatever rate I get them then just buy meteor stones whenever I pop into Radz for other gear. It's very pleasing because I don't have to stop doing what I was already doing.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Getting the base ARR Relic? Go to your designated location, find the weathered version, kill a few enemies, a few tomestones and the vessel weapon, then Chimera/Hydra/Amdapor and you're set.

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The Saga of the Zodiac Weapons didn't start until the Atma step. I've already gone over this in this very thread.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

HW weapons? If you made a Zeta for the same job you didn't even have to do the first step, which wasn't even that bad and also took only a few hours of FATE grinding.

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Sure, you could skip it with a Zeta weapon. Although I doubt you could do the first step in "a few hours", considering you needed 3 crystals from each zone. This is back before they reduced that step to 1 crystal from each zone.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

My point is that there have always been short and long steps.
There will be long steps ahead, don't you worry about that.

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Except there's only two major patches left, and we've only had shorts steps so far. Telling people to not worry about it is basically echoing Stormpeaks' post "just wait till 6.4.5 guys it gets better".

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Originally Posted by SomeGuy22

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Honestly, I was more upset about it until I thought about it. My first thought was "1500 tomes...again? The EXACT same thing?!" when I was expecting more of a grind. But then I remembered how much the forums/etc were complaining FOR MONTHS about ShB's being too grindy, even though ShB was the least grindy and most acomodating of any Relic "grind" in history at level.

Further, I was thinking "Couldn't they have made it where we could run dungeons or Orthos for stuff to trade in for the Relic?" Then I realized...that we can. We're getting the applicable tomes any time we run end-game content, including Orthos. We just aren't getting some item, or trading the tomes for an item to trade for another item (like the "Unidentified Seed/Bone/etc" in HW). It's just cutting out the conversion factor steps between several "middle-man" items. It's as if the Devs are saying to us "You complained about only being able to progress your Relic in Eureka, then you complained when we said you could use Bozja or specific other things like FATEs or Dungeons, and you complained at having to convert and collect between tomes and a bunch of resources, and you complained about having it tied to an Exploration Content zone...so we just ripped all of that out and are letting you get your tomes in any way you want and then convert them directly into Relics without all the steps. HAPPY NOW??!?!"

I feel like that's kinda what's going on. And after thinking about it, I can't fault them for it.

"Run Orthos 30 times" or "spend 30x Orthos runs worth of tomes", is really a 6 one way, half a dozen the other situation. It just lacks the "flavor" feel of past Relics. But that "flavor" resulted in grinds that PEOPLE ENDLESSLY COMPLAINED ABOUT.

It's really a case of "this is why we can't have nice things" that has inundated the game. People want Jobs to be unique, but when one sufficiently is, people complain. People want encounters to be diverse or require more mitigation or healing or coordination or whatever, but when they are, people complain about it (or worse, use cheat add-ons to make it easier AND THEN complain about it anyway). People won't stop complaining, so Devs keep making things more and more streamlined and soulless.

Then people complain about THAT.

Honestly, people need to stop complaining about every little thing.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

The Saga of the Zodiac Weapons didn't start until the Atma step

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It's still a step for the same relic at the end of the day, and you know this. Why are you moving the goal posts? OG and Zenith Steps were purple weapons, they were always called relics and are relics. You're coming across as dishonest with this one.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Sure, you could skip it with a Zeta weapon. Although I doubt you could do the first step in "a few hours"

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You could. Those drop rates were always rather generous.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Except there's only two major patches left

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You know they can still add long steps within that time frame, right?
As to "wait till it gets better" I never spoke about better or worse with you. You first addressed me and you did it discussing quest length, not quality.

Length doesn't equal quality and the topics have nothing to do with one another. Fighting Chimera and Hydra was way more fun and interesting at the time than farming 60 HW FATEs for Resistance, but the FATEs certainly took longer.

If you wanna talk about quality, I fall somewhere in the middle, as I think there's positives and negatives about just farming astronomy, and all I know is that while this step is hardly the best, it's also far from the worst they can make.

imagine resubbing just to farm fates/old content lol

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

It's still a step for the same relic at the end of the day, and you know this. Why are you moving the goal posts? OG and Zenith Steps were purple weapons, they were always called relics and are relics. You're coming across as dishonest with this one.

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If you've read my previous posts in this thread, my stance has always been that the Saga of the Zodiac Weapons is the start of the Zeta questchain.
I'd love to know how you consider this to be "moving the goal posts" or "coming across as dishonest".

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

You could. Those drop rates were always rather generous.

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My experience with the step tells otherwise.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

You know they can still add long steps within that time frame, right?
As to "wait till it gets better" I never spoke about better or worse with you. You first addressed me and you did it discussing quest length, not quality.

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The general statement of "just wait till x, it'll get better", or any variation of it, is one that's often said against players who even dare to complain about any update.
Players have every right to be worried about an aspect of the game, without being told to stop worrying, because "the devs can still do x!". Especially after getting two short steps in a row.

And as I've already explained in a previous post, the x.55 step is generally a victory lap, so that leaves the 6.45 one.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

If you've read my previous posts in this thread, my stance has always been that the Saga of the Zodiac Weapons is the start of the Zeta questchain.
I'd love to know how you consider this to be "moving the goal posts" or "coming across as dishonest".

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Because whether you consider the Zenith weapons part of the Zodiac quest or not, they are in fact steps required to get them. Saying they aren't is just not true by fact, and the weapons even share the same design all the way to the Zeta step. But for the sake of argument, let's say Zenith is an entirely different relic. My point still stand and may be even stronger with this weird line of thought, because now you're telling me we could fully complete an entire Relic in two or three days, with each step taking no more than a couple hours tops. So: Short steps don't mean bad quests. Length has nothing to do with quality.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

My experience with the step tells otherwise.

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Not gonna argue this one anymore because I can't know what your experience was. Mine was a rather quick step. I don't think you're lying, but neither am I.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

The general statement of "just wait till x, it'll get better"

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I made no such general statement of quality of the sort. All I did was answer OP's question as to why I don't mind this step, which again: May not be the best, but it's far from the worst. I never said it's gonna get better or worse, that's beyond the scope of my argument. I said it's probably gonna get lengthier, and if it doesn't I'll just eat my words, but my argument about length has nothing to do with quality. They're separate elements, I can't stress this enough.

You have all the right in the world to worry, but pretending this step is THE WORST RELIC QUEST STEP I feel is born out of ignorance as to how bad relic steps can actually get, or is just being alarmist. I don't think you're either.

Calling this the worst step ever however is a plain overreaction.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

That's literally like those people saying that islands are supposed to be done at a very slow pace, it's a pretty ridiculous argument, slowing on purpose to make it last longer does not make it better content

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Uh ... let me guess, you're one of those meta person who believe the only way to play a class is copy-pasted stuffs of the balance discord. And if you don't play your group with a meta comp you're doing it wrong ... ?


Frankly in the pass the only difference is you were restricted to specific type of content in order to generate result, and you're forced into them whether you want or not. But with the 1500 open-ended you can do whatever you want to meet it. For example people who are saying they would prefer to have "forced" you to run x amount of time running certain alliance raid ... well, what's stopping you from telling yourself you only gonna try to farm tome using Alliance raid? And sure, if you just want it to be fast and get it over with ... jump on the train. And you can also get tome doing anything in between those 2 extremes. The choice is yours.


I often wonder why people are against choice so much. But then posts like yours just show the issue is some people find it impossible to follow their own free-will and must always adhere to some kind of trench-standard set by someone else. Just like I have seen someone people absolutely miserable, or at least not playing a job in a way that would be fun for them because they felt compelled following the meta for that extra 1-5%.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

just wait till 6.3.5 guys it gets better
just wait till 6.4.5 guys it gets better
just wait till 6.5.5 guys it gets better
just wait till next expansion guys it gets better
just wait till first patch guys it gets better
and the cycle of excuses goes on

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Wrong. I have never told now or before it will get better. That's why I tell you to wait till the end. Also, unlike you who seem antagonize every moment of playing the game that you feel to constantly need an excuse for the future. I don't need to make excuse because I'm generally happy with the moments. I look forward to the next patch or next expansion because I'm excited for them, not desperately looking for a life line to hinge on like you seem to do.

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Uh ... let me guess, you're one of those meta person who believe the only way to play a class is copy-pasted stuffs of the balance discord. And if you don't play your group with a meta comp you're doing it wrong ... ?

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So what you are saying is that you should just "yolo it" and pick what you want, instead of thinking about your party, hindering the entire party because you decide to underperform ? That's very ridiculous

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Wrong. I have never told now or before it will get better. That's why I tell you to wait till the end. Also, unlike you who seem antagonize every moment of playing the game that you feel to constantly need an excuse for the future. I don't need to make excuse because I'm generally happy with the moments.

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If you are happy, that's great, some people care about having content to do in between patches, actual current content, not old content, and using "yeah just wait till the end of the expansion to judge" is how WoW failed for many years, getting a little bit on the upside now with DF, but it still failed for many years, the constant argument of "just wait to judge" leads to that.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

So what you are saying is that you should just "yolo it" and pick what you want, instead of thinking about your party, hindering the entire party because you decide to underperform ? That's very ridiculous

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No where as ridiculous as you're attempting to generalize thing to the extreme and putting word in other people mouth.

I said

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... extra 1-5%.

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So if anyone want to berate me for not running a meta-built and thus missing a couple of % as "being" burden to the party, I'll just tell them to never be in a party with me then. Same goes for anyone who think you either need to run a meta comp or it's bad party. Oh and before you claim something stupid as "but that 2% could be the difference between a clear and enrage!". If a group hit enrage because me missing a couple % from the absolute best, then the problem isn't with me.

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If you are happy, that's great, some people care about having content to do in between patches, actual current content, not old content, and using "yeah just wait till the end of the expansion to judge" is how WoW failed for many years, getting a little bit on the upside now with DF, but it still failed for many years, the constant argument of "just wait to judge" leads to that.

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That's why I didn't say you need to be happy like I am, if you choose to be a miserable pessimist that's your choice. I'm just pointing out to you the choice of being happy and being unhappy is - indeed - at the end - yours. I personally would never let myself get to your level of perssims, you know why? 'Cause I for sure would disappear long before I reach that point.

I will play the game for as long as it please me, and I support the game for as long as I believe at it future. But I'm not married to it, it's not my job that I have to do to pay bill regardless of my enjoyment. It's a game, and I play because I enjoy it, and I will stop playing the moment I no longer enjoy it. I will never play a "game" just to antagonizing myself like you are.

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That's why I didn't say you need to be happy like I am, if you choose to be a miserable pessimist that's your choice. I'm just pointing out to you the choice of being happy and being unhappy is - indeed - at the end - yours. I personally would never let myself get to your level of perssims, you know why? 'Cause I for sure would disappear long before I reach that point.

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Thankfully for me, housing saves this game for me, else I would stop playing yes, because the rest of the "content" leaves a lot to be desired, and is almost non existant. Long lasting content at least.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Because whether you consider the Zenith weapons part of the Zodiac quest or not, they are in fact steps required to get them. Saying they aren't is just not true by fact, and the weapons even share the same design all the way to the Zeta step. But for the sake of argument, let's say Zenith is an entirely different relic, even though it is not. My point still stand and may be even stronger with this weird line of thought, because now you're telling me we could fully complete an entire Relic in two or three days, with each step taking no more than a couple hours tops. So: Short steps don't mean bad quests. Length has nothing to do with quality.

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If you've played during 2.0 you'd know that there was no indication on the Zodiac Weapon Saga being a thing. The quest was carried over from 1.0, and trimmed down significantly on its objectives. The journal entry for "A Relic Reborn" even specifies that it's the final stage of the restoration process. Not to mention that the journal doesn't even list these quests under the Zodiac Weapons tab. The addition of using the Thavnairian Mists was specifically added to +1 the relic (it literally added a +1 to the name), so it could match iLvl from the other gear purchased with Tomestones of Mythology.

As for them re-using the relic model for the Zodiac Weapon Sage, the game at that stage relied heavily on re-using models from 1.0 or FFXI. Likely because SE was very cautious about giving a large budget for a game that had already failed once before.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I made no such general statement of quality of the sort.

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"There will be long steps ahead, don't you worry about that."
It doesn't take any mental gymnastics to tell that this boils down to "Just wait until the next patch." You're also still completely focused on the word "better", rather than the entire statement.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

You have all the right in the world to worry, but pretending this step is THE WORST RELIC QUEST STEP I feel is born out of ignorance as to how bad relic steps can actually get, or is just being alarmist. I don't think you're either.

Calling this the worst step ever however is a plain overreaction.

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I fail to see where I have pretended that this step is "THE WORST RELIC QUEST STEP"

I'm pointing out that having a step that's essentially a copy paste job of the previous one (down to buying 3 "meteorite chunks") is a worrying trend. Every relic weapon has had short steps, but none of them have had steps copied like this in such a blatant manner.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

I'm pointing out that having a step that's essentially a copy paste job of the previous one (down to buying 3 "meteorite chunks") is a worrying trend. Every relic weapon has had short steps, but none of them have had steps copied like this in such a blatant manner.

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Honestly kinda wish they did. All that juggling between multiple currencies was annoying and arbitrary. Why bother dealing with literal garbage currencies and items when you can just use the existing currency that is readily available? You'll be farming the content either way. It's basically a streamlined grind.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

If you've played during 2.0 you'd know that there was no indication on the Zodiac Weapon Saga being a thing. The quest was carried over from 1.0, and trimmed down significantly on its objectives. The journal entry for "A Relic Reborn" even specifies that it's the final stage of the restoration process. Not to mention that the journal doesn't even list these quests under the Zodiac Weapons tab. The addition of using the Thavnairian Mists was specifically added to +1 the relic (it literally added a +1 to the name), so it could match iLvl from the other gear purchased with Tomestones of Mythology.

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There you go, short steps aren't necessarily bad. I'm glad you understood at least one of my points.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

You're also still completely focused on the word "better", rather than the entire statement.

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Again... my statement was about length specifically, not quality. Sad to see this one didn't get through you, no matter how much I tried to explain it.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

"There will be long steps ahead, don't you worry about that."
It doesn't take any mental gymnastics to tell that this boils down to "Just wait until the next patch."

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I literally said I'd eat my words if that doesn't happen. What else do you want? Sad to see you missed that one as well.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

I fail to see where I have pretended that this step is "THE WORST RELIC QUEST STEP"

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Are you even reading me anymore? I literally said in my last response that I didn't think you were that.

I'm done trying to get through you. I explained my thoughts, conceded some stuff, but I don't think you're even paying attention to what I've been saying, seeing particularly how you didn't even seem to care or notice what I said about you not being an alarmist or that I literally don't mind finding out I was wrong if no lengthy stuff comes later.

I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish here. To point out that you're worried? You're right, we've never had the same step repeated before, so of course you're entitled to be worried. I also just mentioned that was valid position in my last post, but again: You're either not actually reading what I say, or you're just choosing to ignore on purpose, so what's the point.

As for what I was trying to accomplish, the same thing I've been saying from the begining: This was only my answer to OP. I don't mind this step because even if it's not great, there's been much worse in the past.

I'm out.

The arguments in favor of this using 'flavor' as a reason are some of the worst arguments I have ever seen.
If the lack of specific tasks vs tomes is just "flavor", then you can apply that logic to every other content in the game. Jobs, dungeons, gear, FATEs, bosses, enemies, sidequests. Let's reduce everything to what objectively sets them apart... which is not much. I'm sure that wouldn't make the experience more shallow at all!

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

As for them re-using the relic model for the Zodiac Weapon Sage, the game at that stage relied heavily on re-using models from 1.0 or FFXI. Likely because SE was very cautious about giving a large budget for a game that had already failed once before.

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The game still does this with gear and with enemy models. To this day we still get bosses and enemies that use the same model and animations of enemies introduced in 1.0 with minor surface alterations masking it. Only trial and raid bosses are entirely original.

Grinding experts is about as interesting as grinding a random step like do "x" dungeon 5 times or do "x" trial 20 times or whatever relic steps would have been in place, Simply it's not going to be a fun grind either way, so i rather it just be simple, at least with grinding for purple tomes I can just do some roulettes and have more Varity in what I do.

If people want to talk about the "lack of casual post msq content" then I agree but I don't exactly think a long annoying grind doing some random thing is fun for a lot of people, my main question is what do people want in place of it? what sort of content are people really expecting from a "relic grind"

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

There you go, short steps aren't necessarily bad. I'm glad you understood at least one of my points.

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It amuses me that all you got out of that part of my post is "short steps aren't necessarily bad".

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Are you even reading me anymore? I literally said in my last response that I didn't think you were that.

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This begs the question why you even bothered adding that entire sentence to your post to begin with. It doesn't appear to apply to anyone you've been replying to.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Again... my statement was about length specifically, not quality. Sad to see this one didn't get through you, no matter how much I tried to explain it.

I literally said I'd eat my words if that doesn't happen. What else do you want? Sad to see you missed that one as well. I'm done trying to get through you. I explained my thoughts, conceded some stuff, but I don't think you're even paying attention to what I've been saying, seeing particularly how you didn't even seem to care or notice what I said about you not being an alarmist or that I literally don't mind finding out I was wrong if no lengthy stuff comes later.

I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish here. To point out that you're worried? You're right, we've never had the same step repeated before, so of course you're entitled to be worried. I also just mentioned that was valid position in my last post, but again: You're either not actually reading what I say, or you're just choosing to ignore on purpose, so what's the point.

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The last part of your post kinda blends in with the other parts of it. So I combined it into a single quote to more easily reply to it.
The point I was trying to get across is that "just wait for the next patch" is a rather empty statement. Unfortunately, you chose to tunnelvision on the word "better".

And no, I didn't miss the part about you being prepared to eat your own words. But I'm also someone who doesn't see any merit in someone eating their words when the statement is relatively empty to begin with.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

As for what I was trying to accomplish, the same thing I've been saying from the begining: This was only my answer to OP. I don't mind this step because even if it's not great, there's been much worse in the past.

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Kinda weird to accept a step for the simple fact that it could've been worse. It's like accepting a glass of milk that's been out in the sun, simply because it's not spoilt.

My point being that we've had short steps, and that's fine. But we haven't had two lazily done short steps in a row, with a 4 month waiting period in-between. At that point, it starts becoming a worrying trend. One that I hope doesn't extend to patch 6.45.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I'm out.

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See ya.