Can we report the Baldesion Arsenal discord group?

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Originally Posted by Mixt

Says no one can learn Savage without voice chat.

-Has done exactly that.

Umm...sorry to tell you this, but you are totally wrong on that count.

Maybe if we were talking about Ultimate you would have a point.

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So why don't you have a Final Omega kill? :thinking:

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Originally Posted by Adrestia

What? No. What rose colored glasses are you wearing? Whether it was EQ or DAoC of FFXI or anything else, in the other games you were at best being excluded from even trying a fight because the uberguilds would get first claim and the rules said you couldn’t engage. At worst they were MPKing you. And if it was a valuable spawn in UO or EVE or something, they were just flat out killing you and fighting the boss over your corpse.

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Never had that experience in this game or in any other game if those are the experiences you have feel sorry for you, in the experiences had so far have been always included even in different games with different designs for different goals.

The point you missing is that attitude that you bring with you into new dungeons and raid makes all the difference to appeal or repel recent players and the arrogance and the elitism forced upon any other recently joined player that wants to experience the game for the 1st time won't leave much choice if not give up, which is sad because at some point it will leave the game with elitists only and is going to be a poop show.

No MMO will survive with elitists only.

The content wasn't designed to use Discord so players aren't forced to use Discord you have other forms of communication inside game, but if a player apart of being forced to use Discord is also harassed by a bunch of nasty arrogant players, like the situation described on the original post, that is the secret recipe to end one MMO because you won't have recently joined players wanting to play it.

Personally won't recommend anyone who wants to enjoy the game and have fun to engage in any BA runs because the game content wasn't created for any player adopt any masochist attitude and be harassed by some self made elite wannabes.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Never had that experience in this game or in any other game if those are the experiences you have feel sorry for you.

The point you missing is that attitude that you bring with you into new dungeons and raid makes all the difference to appeal or repel recent players and the arrogance and the elitism forced upon any other recently joined player that wants to experience the game for the 1st time won't leave much choice if not give up, which is sad because at some point it will leave the game with elitists only and is going to be a poop show.

No MMO will survive with elitists only.

The content wasn't designed to use Discord so players aren't forced to use Discord you have other forms of communication inside game, but if a player apart of being forced to use Discord is also harassed by a bunch of nasty arrogant players, like the situation described on the original post, that is the secret recipe to end one MMO because you won't have recently joined players wanting to play it.

On my part won't recommend anyone such experience the game is to be enjoyed so players have fun not be harassed by some self made elite wannabes.

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This is assuming the situation even occurred as it was so told in this thread. It’s already been pointed out how there are holes and inconsistencies with the story.

Even with the clarification provided by the OP’s friend, I still question if things happened exactly as they were told here. Mostly because of the person’s claims that the entire instance was harassed into not raising them when they supposedly returned to the camp—but to return to the camp, one would have already been raised by simply releasing from the dungeon after dying. So either the OP’s friend is confused about remembering specific details, they’re embellishing to make things sound worse than they actually were, the OP themselves are confused and/or embellishing, or this is just another story following the trend of “Hate on the Discord peoples”. Unfortunately, there is no way for us to possibly know, but I’ve seen stories pop up like this frequently and very few of them tend to turn out true. So I apologize for my skepticism.


Do mean-spirited players exist? Certainly. But they are not nearly as rampant as you are trying to make them sound. And let us not forget that the “other side” of this BA argument (the side against Discords that want to preach that the “portals belong to everyone”) are not exactly innocent—this “elitism” exists on both sides. I’ve seen many attempts by anti-Discord players to sabotage clear runs since I started doing BA. I’ve met more nice players within the Discord than I have these “elitists” people like to rant and rave about.

Honestly, the worst type of players I’ve met (in terms of attitude) are not the ones typically painted as “elitist” on these forums.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Personally won't recommend anyone who wants to enjoy the game and have fun to engage in any BA runs because the game content wasn't created for any player adopt any masochist attitude and be harassed by some self made elite wannabes.

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Personally, I would recommend that people join the Discord and attempt the organized BA runs. They may find themselves actually having fun, and they may meet some pretty cool people. Much like I was able to.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Personally won't recommend anyone who wants to enjoy the game and have fun to engage in any BA runs because the game content wasn't created for any player adopt any masochist attitude and be harassed by some self made elite wannabes.

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As someone who has actually participated in BA and the Discord, I do recommend to give it a shot! Our first timer learning group made it all the way to Ozma today! If you don't like it, you don't like it and you don't have to come back. To spout this kind of nonsense when you haven't even tried is very small-minded.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Never had that experience in this game or in any other game if those are the experiences you have feel sorry for you, in the experiences had so far have been always included even in different games with different designs for different goals.

The point you missing is that attitude that you bring with you into new dungeons and raid makes all the difference to appeal or repel recent players and the arrogance and the elitism forced upon any other recently joined player that wants to experience the game for the 1st time won't leave much choice if not give up, which is sad because at some point it will leave the game with elitists only and is going to be a poop show.

No MMO will survive with elitists only.

The content wasn't designed to use Discord so players aren't forced to use Discord you have other forms of communication inside game, but if a player apart of being forced to use Discord is also harassed by a bunch of nasty arrogant players, like the situation described on the original post, that is the secret recipe to end one MMO because you won't have recently joined players wanting to play it.

Personally won't recommend anyone who wants to enjoy the game and have fun to engage in any BA runs because the game content wasn't created for any player adopt any masochist attitude and be harassed by some self made elite wannabes.

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People like you are why the developers will never take the NA community seriously when it comes to content design input.

You've literally invested enough time to make 12 posts in this thread calling people out for being elitists, when you've outright admitted that you have no intention of stepping into BA despite your attempts to shame a portion of the community who have. And because you've never run BA, you've never even MET the people you're arguing with that are actually participating in the subject matter of this thread, much less have any actual experience in it yourself.

There's a serious lack of logic here, and I'm not entirely sure you understand what toxicity actually is. And this is coming from someone that has yet to step into BA either because of the awful entry design. Am I going around arguing with people who have found a system for organizing runs? No. The system they made exists for a reason. Maybe if you tried, you'd understand why, instead of going out of your way to attack this group over multiple posts in this thread where it's obvious no real civil consensus can be reached.

I'm sorry if this sounds really mean-spirited, but I am tired of watching this forum devolve into a cesspool of people talking about content in such a definitive way and then immediately admit afterwards that they haven't attempted it at all/are proud of not even trying because 'elitists'. What meaning does this whole exercise even have anymore? It's not even a debate in good faith at that point. What's the point then? What is the end goal?

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

People like you are why the developers will never take the NA community seriously when it comes to content design input.

You've literally invested enough time to make 12 posts in this thread calling people out for being elitists, when you've outright admitted that you have no intention of stepping into BA despite your attempts to shame a portion of the community who have. And because you've never run BA, you've never even MET the people you're arguing with that are actually participating in the subject matter of this thread, much less have any actual experience in it yourself.

There's a serious lack of logic here, and I'm not entirely sure you understand what toxicity actually is. And this is coming from someone that has yet to step into BA either because of the awful entry design. Am I going around arguing with people who have found a system for organizing runs? No. The system they made exists for a reason. Maybe if you tried, you'd understand why, instead of going out of your way to attack this group over multiple posts in this thread where it's obvious no real civil consensus can be reached.

I'm sorry if this sounds really mean-spirited, but I am tired of watching this forum devolve into a cesspool of people talking about content in such a definitive way and then immediately admit afterwards that they haven't attempted it at all/are proud of not even trying because 'elitists'. What meaning does this whole exercise even have anymore? It's not even a debate in good faith at that point. What's the point then? What is the end goal?

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Wrote my posts based on the attitude players had towards the original post and did BA once at least and how expressed my opinion and the feedback from my opinion and other players opinion and yes it was elitist, formed my opinion from all comments from this thread, other threads and Eureka shout channel from inside game as from the original post can't believe a player would join a portal to ruin the others game as it was referred here before and that were it got strange on the way some expressed their hate.

For try the new content would like to be a good experience and unfortunately do not have access to discord prefer in game communication channels, because in game communication channels are under SE regulation.

Mean spirited is to put up with elitism and arrogance for a simple content created with other objective and is even worse for recently joined players.

Sorry to inform you but you not the only in the world who knows what toxicity is.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Never tried BA dungeon/raid/whatever if would like YES would like but after reading this thread one thing am sure will never try.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Wrote my posts based on the attitude players had towards the original post and did BA once at least and how expressed my opinion and the feedback from my opinion and other players opinion and yes it was elitist, formed my opinion from all comments from this thread, other threads and Eureka shout channel from inside game as from the original post can't believe a player would join a portal to ruin the others game as it was referred here before and that were it got strange on the way some expressed their hate.

For try the new content would like to be a good experience and unfortunately do not have access to discord because prefer in game communication channels.

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So, did you actually try BA between the first quoted post and this one?

If so, are you sure that your negative impression was not already formed well before you stepped foot into the content, thereby going in with a negative bias? Negative biases are far harder to change than positive ones.

People are allowed to question the opening post. Especially since it has inconsistencies. I personally question it because, as I said previously, I’ve seen a lot of these “Woe is me” posts that turn out to be exaggerated or downright false on this very forum. Pardon if I don’t immediately take everything at face-value.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

can't believe a player would join a portal to ruin the others game as it was referred here before

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If you think there aren’t people out there that snipe portals purely out of spite, you are sorely mistaken. I have seen them. I’ve been in instances where players try to shout “West side at boss, pulling at XX:XX ET” just to mess with the players already in the dungeon. I’ve seen players sit outside the Support FATE and refuse to help kill it because they’re mad a premade group is in BA.

There is toxicity on both sides. The “anti-Discord” people are certainly not these innocent victims.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Mean spirited is to put up with elitism and arrogance for a simple content created with other objective.

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Personally, I would define mean-spirited as something far different than what you’ve listed here.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

As someone who has actually participated in BA and the Discord, I do recommend to give it a shot! Our first timer learning group made it all the way to Ozma today! If you don't like it, you don't like it and you don't have to come back. To spout this kind of nonsense when you haven't even tried is very small-minded.

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Its not about tried or not tried is about what have been observing since the content was released as wrote before from my personal observation on the other player behavior here in forums, Eureka instance shout channel and in the support group.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

So, did you actually try BA between the first quoted post and this one?

If so, are you sure that your negative impression was not already formed well before you stepped foot into the content, thereby going in with a negative bias? Negative biases are far harder to change than positive ones.

People are allowed to question the opening post. Especially since it has inconsistencies. I personally question it because, as I said previously, I’ve seen a lot of these “Woe is me” posts that turn out to be exaggerated or downright false on this very forum. Pardon if I don’t immediately take everything at face-value.



If you think there aren’t people out there that snipe portals purely out of spite, you are sorely mistaken. I have seen them. I’ve been in instances where players try to shout “West side at boss, pulling at XX:XX ET” just to mess with the players already in the dungeon. I’ve seen players sit outside the Support FATE and refuse to help kill it because they’re mad a premade group is in BA.

There is toxicity on both sides. The “anti-Discord” people are certainly not these innocent victims.



Personally, I would define mean-spirited as something far different than what you’ve listed here.

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So sorry as explained before can only join communication channels under SE regulation and no it's difficult to believe players would just go inside the portal to ruin someone else game think there are players who experience the game for the 1st time and can make mistakes.

Not saying you don't have grief players but those usually are known among the community and no those grief players you mean they do not just quit the game, unfortunately they adopt a repetitive/cyclic behavior on ruin random players game or one focused target.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

So sorry as explained before can only join communication channels under SE regulation and no it's difficult to believe players would just go inside the portal to ruin someone else game, think persons experience the game for the 1st time can make mistakes.

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You didn’t answer my question: did you actually try BA, or have you still not set foot in there as you previously claimed?

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

think there are players who experience the game for the 1st time and can make mistakes.

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Sorry, but when you see someone deliberately take a Support portal and then immediately leave the dungeon without so much as leaving the entry area, it’s hard to believe that they didn’t know what they were doing when they took it or that their intentions were innocent. Especially because support parties generally announce their presence and ask players (key word here is ASK—they do not typically DEMAND or THREATEN, like you have probably read on these forums) to please not take the portals.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Its not about tried or not tried is about what have been observing since the content was released as wrote before from my personal observation on the other player behavior here in forums, Eureka instance shout channel and in the support group.

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You’re forming an opinion based on a highly biased game forum that only reflects the opinions of a very small number of its game’s population. You’re far better off forming your own opinion by actively participating in the content, not just relying on the opinions of others to give your own weight. Your opinion doesn’t have any substance when you go about forming them in the way you’ve done.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Its not about tried or not tried is about what have been observing since the content was released as wrote before from my personal observation on the other player behavior here in forums, Eureka instance shout channel and in the support group.

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Since we're on the same data center.. I'm just gonna tell you that at least half of those of what you may call as "hate speech" in the shout channel is nothing more than players trolling and throwing banter.

The amount of "portal snipers" compared to the amount of Players participating in BA are not even significant to say the least.

As for my two cents on this thread, I'm sure there is a message telling players to exchange communications to clear BA, and I'm inclined to believe that communication means to be cooperative.. How can someone whine here on the forum after they are not being cooperative to the majority of the community thinking they are the victims here?

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Originally Posted by lvlagmarink

Since we're on the same data center.. I'm just gonna tell you that at least half of those of what you may call as "hate speech" in the shout channel is nothing more than players trolling and throwing banter.

The amount of "portal snipers" compared to the amount of Players participating in BA are not even significant to say the least.

As for my two cents on this thread, I'm sure there is a message telling players to exchange communications to clear BA, and I'm inclined to believe that communication means to be cooperative.. How can someone whine here on the forum after they are not being cooperative to the majority of the community thinking they are the victims here?

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"players trolling and throwing blanter" it must be.

You are the one making victim or non victim, is not about victimization as you want to make it.

It's more about the attitude you have towards players who do not have access to discord for a variety of reasons and imply because they not have that access they aren't cooperative when in fact they can be.
Other thing no one is asking players to exchange communications to clear BA, simply stating that not all players have access to discord.

How can you not have discord? You can even use internet browser to use it. You can even install discord on your phone.
You are not even required to talk, you can even request to raid lead and have veteran helps you on the run.

The only instance i can think of for someone having a reason not to use discord is because they play in their consoles and they dont have a smart phones.. But i'd just like to believe everybody in this modern age who plays the game and having access to the forum has a smart phone.. oh well I'd like to believe.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Other thing no one is asking players to exchange communications to clear BA, simply stating that not all players have access to discord.

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Well hello? Asking players for a raise in hoping to proceed through the rest of dungeon and clearing it is also a form of communication.. and they failed at that because of their behaviour ealier to "snipe a portal", thus they are uncooperative.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

So sorry as explained before can only join communication channels under SE regulation and no it's difficult to believe players would just go inside the portal to ruin someone else game think there are players who experience the game for the 1st time and can make mistakes.

Not saying you don't have grief players but those usually are known among the community and no those grief players you mean they do not just quit the game, unfortunately they have a repetitive behavior on ruin random players game or one target.

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People absolutely grief these runs (and no, not every single person knows precisely who they all are). It wasn't only prevalent on NA with players sniping portals and then leaving the instance to force the overall group to be down a player, but it also hurt a lot of JP players' ability to actually do anything in the Arsenal as it was about as commonplace there initially (to the point people would turn off their streams while trying to get in) and that delayed their ability to actually progress and do the content, and begin to have solid strategies for these bosses for players who aren't as interested in doing a blind run.

I haven't run with people in the Discord. I've seen them in shout, in yell, a lot. I've seen non-full groups pull from the instance's players and provide a link for the Discord in order to have the highest chance for success. I've also never encountered behavior like this from people specifically from there (although there's likely going to be some instances of harassment in general, they're just a microcosm of the overall XIV community on their respective data centers). But if something happens in game, then... report it?

And even the random, non-organized, 16 player run I was in at 3AM because I was bored... there were people leading there, who offered some links to the Arsenal Discord and do organization there. They just explained mechanics, didn't harass people who messed up, and when the run inevitably failed after the side I was on killed the uh... not... Art dude, the Handsy Man, there wasn't much ire just a "ah, well we tried and got some experience at least." It was a very relaxed atmosphere, overall.


No, I'm not excusing harassing a well-intentioned player who wants to do the Arsenal and took a portal. But their own ruleset forbids that behavior... though, just because something is "against the rules" doesn't mean people won't break those rules. In those cases, though it's just... report it (to SE, it's against their rules too).

But the Discord on the whole is trying to provide a service to make BA more accessible overall. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

You didn’t answer my question: did you actually try BA, or have you still not set foot in there as you previously claimed?

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To answer your question no have not tried BA dungeon/raid only many times outside to help support group doing the fates needed for the group advance to the dungeon/raid when am playing have the in game chat log box open with all channels included to know where to go for the next fate, receive personal messages, read say chat to other players that request raise, etc.

As wrote before my opinion comes from the whole threads in this forum not just this one and the behavior that unfortunately experienced during the time helping support group on Eureka instance since the content was released.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

"players trolling and throwing blanter" it must be.

You are the one making victim or non victim, is not about victimization as you want to make it.

It's more about the attitude you have towards players who do not have access to discord for a variety of reasons and imply because they not have that access they aren't cooperative when in fact they can be.
Other thing no one is asking players to exchange communications to clear BA, simply stating that not all players have access to discord.

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Asking you to join a Discord is asking you to exchange communications.

The BA description in the patch notes and in game explicitly says that you will be required to communicate with your fellow teammates in order to clear and earn the rewards for clearing—

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Originally Posted by 4.55 Patch Notes; Re: Baldesion Arsenal Rewards

Rewards

Those who defeat the bosses within and clear the entirety of the Baldesion Arsenal will be richly rewarded. To do so will be no mean feat, however─you must communicate well with your fellow adventurers if any of you are to reach the prize.

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It just so happens that NA/EU’s preferred method of communication happens to be Discord, probably because if its ease of access, and the variety of methods they can use to schedule runs (e.g., scheduling and queue bots).

You don’t have to speak if you are not leading a run—in fact, the NA one prefers that comms remain clear for important callouts, and run leaders frequently ask for people to mute themselves during boss fights so that idle chatter does not drown out the callouts.

Discord is not difficult to use: you can install it on your computer, your phone, your tablet, etc.; whatever device you may have can use it, even if you are a Console player and not a PC player (I used to use it on my laptop back before I got a gaming desktop and played on the PS4).


A person not joining the Discord has shown that they are not cooperative. I find it highly unlikely that people in this day in age have zero ways to use Discord—rather, they choose not to. But that choice directly hinders the way NA/EU want to communicate in this content, thereby making it impossible for them to coordinate and cooperate. At the very least, it makes it unnecessarily cumbersome—on-the-fly callouts in chat are not an easy feat when you’re trying to do the mechanics yourself.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

To answer your question no have not tried BA dungeon/raid only many times outside to help support group doing the fates needed for the group advance inside in Eureka instance, when am playing have the in game chat log box open with all channels included to know where to go for the next fate.

As wrote before my opinion comes from the whole threads in this forum not just this one and the behavior that unfortunately experienced during the time helping support group inside instance.

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Okay, so then why say that you’ve tried it when you actually haven’t?

You’re basing your opinion off of a biased game forum that only reflects the opinions of a small amount of its playerbase—a substantial amount of players don’t even post here, yet you would base your opinion off of the minority?

You aren’t actually trying the content itself (doing the Support FATE does not count, as he’s basically just an NM), yet you insist on forming opinions about it and the people who frequently participate in it. Mind you, a lot of players on Aether do not talk in /shout; they use /yell while inside the dungeon so as to not clog up the outside chat for NM call outs. It may be similar on your DC as well, so you may not even be seeing what the majority of people in there think. Again, you’re basing it off of a few people.


Basing your opinion off of the opinions of others with zero effort to actually try the content and form your own independent opinion gives you little merit.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

"players trolling and throwing blanter" it must be.

You are the one making victim or non victim, is not about victimization as you want to make it.

It's more about the attitude you have towards players who do not have access to discord for a variety of reasons and imply because they not have that access they aren't cooperative when in fact they can be.
Other thing no one is asking players to exchange communications to clear BA, simply stating that not all players have access to discord.

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I can understand if you don't have discord because your computer simply cannot run it.

What I cannot understand is people being unwilling to download a chat app because of misconceptions about how it's too 'hardcore' or 'unregulated' or something else from the list of boogeymans. It's not even a matter of principle at that point, it's just being an edgy uncooperative fool in content where the devs have stated in-game in no uncertain terms that it requires large scale communication to succeed. And this kind of mentality is another reason why the devs are wise to ignore our side of the community when designing content. No amount of design is going to help people who are unwilling to help themselves - and strangely, on our side of the community, we have a significant population of people who are apparently proud of that.

Recall that even if we take this topic starter's word at face value, it's their word - supposedly acting as a third party posting on the forums on behalf of a friend who actually did participate in the run, so they by default don't even know the full picture themselves - against 40+ other people who WERE personally there and know what happened. Their friend took a portal from an organized group. Okay, that's fine and fair and within the game's rules. But then they're posting on the forums, trying to rally the masses against this group for what happened afterwards, when in reality they're just showcasing their complete failure to take personal responsibility by trying to shift blame to the other participants, while simultaneously displaying ignorance about the cost of deaths and raising in the instance.

Analyzing everything from a logical standpoint makes it hard for me to side with the people that are against this discord group existing. And quite frankly, the amount of energy some people here expend in this weird crusade against this group feels like it could be better spent trying to improve yourself as a player. So that if you wanted to do something like this again, at least the discord group wouldn't be able to talk crap to you because you wouldn't be dying in the first place and risking their entire run.

Still, I have to wonder what your personal stake in this argument is, if you don't have plans to seriously participate in the content despite posting so much about it. I was content to stay out of this thread until I noticed what was happening here, and I am legit curious: Are your grievances focused on the content design, or are your grievances focused on the people running the content?

There's a big difference, and the answer will tell you quite a lot about why the others in this thread are arguing against you (and others with a similar stance) as they have.

As someone who has led a lot of BA runs and helped a lot of first timers gain experience with the content, it is frustrating to see the mistaken perception of the Discord community that some seem to have. It is by no means an elitist community. I have seen some of the worst players I know that play this game, be able to join groups and find success in BA. There is no gatekeeping, no checking players FFLogs to see whether they do adequate DPS or can play their role effectively before letting them join the community. Any and everyone is welcome as long as they behave in a civilized manner and can treat others with respect.

With over 4k players in the Aether discord, no one can sit here and say there are no toxic players in the community, but the vast majority are just trying to help others achieve mutual goals. There have been "incidents" with snipers, but usually only after they deliberately have stalked specific groups runs and attempted to troll/grief them. For each "sniper" that has been specifically looking to hinder others efforts, there are many more people that have accidentally joined in runs, and been invited to join the discord as they weren't aware of it's existence.

Just the other night we had a new player take a support portal, and we got them in voice comms and got them an AV and Ozma kill their first time in BA. So please don't assume the entire community is behaving in the same way as the few examples people can cite to prove how toxic and elitist it is. I urge anyone with an interest in the content to join the community wide effort to find success by working with others to tackle this content. Sorry for the wall of text but there is a lot of misrepresentation of the discord community taking place in this thread, and I know for a fact most of it is inaccurate.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

People absolutely grief these runs (and no, not every single person knows precisely who they all are). It wasn't only prevalent on NA with players sniping portals and then leaving the instance to force the overall group to be down a player, but it also hurt a lot of JP players' ability to actually do anything in the Arsenal as it was about as commonplace there initially (to the point people would turn off their streams while trying to get in) and that delayed their ability to actually progress and do the content, and begin to have solid strategies for these bosses for players who aren't as interested in doing a blind run.

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Seen some times in our server when one player tries to grief random players game players usually warn via shout channel <pos> so others can see the player caught in the act, obviously you don't know them all but with time you start to understand the cyclic pattern behavior usually and unfortunately they not just quit game, so in your server if you have a player that does on purpose to grief BA runs you most likely will know who he is soon or later.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Seen some times in our server when one player tries to grief random players game players usually warn via shout channel <pos> so others can see the player caught in the act, obviously you don't know them all but with time you start to understand the cyclic pattern behavior usually and unfortunately they not just quit game, so in your server if you have a player that does on purpose to grief BA runs you most likely will know who he is soon or later.

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And let me tell you that in Chaos Data center BA discord, players are adviced to ignore the griefers, "snipers", and anything alike which is to say this is for their own good in case the arguments and griefings turn into report wars.

Can I ask why would you want to have a party with griefers to begin with? This is not all about BA since the core mechanic of this game happens to be MMO where player needs to be cooperative to other players in order to clear contents. The idea of "sniping portals" is not any difference than any other occurences happening in any other contents this game offering when players are unwilling to be cooperative because they have their own way to play the game that's against of what the community as a whole prefers.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Okay, so then why say that you’ve tried it when you actually haven’t?

You’re basing your opinion off of a biased game forum that only reflects the opinions of a small amount of its playerbase—a substantial amount of players don’t even post here, yet you would base your opinion off of the minority?

You aren’t actually trying the content itself (doing the Support FATE does not count, as he’s basically just an NM), yet you insist on forming opinions about it and the people who frequently participate in it. Mind you, a lot of players on Aether do not talk in /shout; they use /yell while inside the dungeon so as to not clog up the outside chat for NM call outs. It may be similar on your DC as well, so you may not even be seeing what the majority of people in there think. Again, you’re basing it off of a few people.


Basing your opinion off of the opinions of others with zero effort to actually try the content and form your own independent opinion gives you little merit.

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Meant that would like to try the new dungeon/raid if didn't want to try wouldn't even bother to help the support group get fates done like many others.

Again am basing my opinion on my experience inside Eureka instance since the content was released and the diverse topics from this forum with all different opinions.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Meant that would like to try the new dungeon/raid if didn't want to try wouldn't even bother to help the support group get fates done like many others.

Again am basing my opinion on my experience inside Eureka instance since the content was released and the diverse topics from this forum with all different opinions.

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And I’m telling you that basing your opinion off of the opinions of others makes your opinion flimsy—you have no direct contact or experience to form an adequate one; instead you are just echoing things you’ve read or heard and say you share the same sentiments.

I think for you to form an adequate, independent opinion of the content, you need to actually participate in it rather than just rely on the opinions of others and biased reports and threads like this one. You aren’t getting the full picture. You aren’t well-rounding your opinion. Instead of seeing for yourself if BA and the Discords dedicated to organizing runs for it are actually good or bad places, you’re just agreeing with people who say “Yeah! They’re all toxic elitists in there!”

Why not see things for yourself and form your own opinion independent of the input of others?

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Originally Posted by lvlagmarink

And let me tell you that in Chaos Data center BA discord, players are adviced to ignore the griefers, "snipers", and anything alike which is to say this is for their own good in case the arguments and griefings turn into report wars.

Can I ask why would you want to have a party with griefers to begin with? This is not all about BA since the core mechanic of this game happens to be MMO where player needs to be cooperative to other players in order to clear contents. The idea of "sniping portals" is not any difference than any other occurences happening in any other contents this game offering when players are unwilling to be cooperative because they have their own way to play the game that's against of what the community as a whole prefers.

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Not getting well what you mean is this you presuming that the person referred in the original post was a grief player?
So sorry don't think so grief players have a cyclic pattern behavior they do not just quit the game like the player referred in the original post.
The original post refers to one player who joined the new dungeon/raid to try it and it was harassed for "intentionally stealing" someone else portal which highly doubt because when players intentionally grief by stealing portals they will be doing the same over and over was not the original post situation.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

And I’m telling you that basing your opinion off of the opinions of others makes your opinion flimsy—you have no direct contact or experience to form an adequate one; instead you are just echoing things you’ve read or heard and say you share the same sentiments.

I think for you to form an adequate, independent opinion of the content, you need to actually participate in it rather than just rely on the opinions of others and biased reports and threads like this one. You aren’t getting the full picture. You aren’t well-rounding your opinion. Instead of seeing for yourself if BA and the Discords dedicated to organizing runs for it are actually good or bad places, you’re just agreeing with people who say “Yeah! They’re all toxic elitists in there!”

Why not see things for yourself and form your own opinion independent of the input of others?

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Appreciate your advise but no thank you what have seen here in this thread and other threads is enough.
It's not for the threads being biased is more about how people express their hate towards other players even if they are recently joined players who not know the mechanics or by mistake want to try new content.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I’m sorry to hear that you would rather echo the opinions of others than form your own through direct experience. I have to ask that you refrain from “warnings” like the one you posted a while back about BA and BA Discords. Clearly, you don’t know what kind of environments they actually are, so try to not tell others about things you do not know.

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On the contrary surely will tell others about my experiences within Eureka instance shout channel and will indicate this thread and others threads related to the subject on the forum.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Lol that's a very quick way to discredit your entire opinion, good job.

Toxic people exist, that doesn't reflect the content nor the discord unless you have specifically experienced those things consistently with the content or the discord, which you clearly have not.

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This forum thread among others related to the subject do portrait well whats the players attitude towards players that aren't aware of the full mechanics and do use the portals with no intention to steal them but to try the new content am so sorry my opinion offends you or your discord magical group, it doesn't change the fact how your attitude reflects here in the forum.
If you were so innocent players wouldn't even be here complaining about harassment on your part so yes this thread will be a good reference in the future.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Appreciate your advise but no thank you what have seen here in this thread is enough.

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I’m sorry to hear that you would rather echo the opinions of others than form your own through direct experience. I have to ask that you refrain from “warnings” like the one you posted a while back about BA and BA Discords. Clearly, you don’t know what kind of environments they actually are, so try to not tell others about things you do not know.

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Not getting well what you mean is this you presuming that the person referred in the original post was a grief player? So sorry don't think so grief players have a cyclic pattern they do not just quit the game like the player referred in the original post.
The original post refers the player who joined the new dungeon/raid to try it and it was harassed for "intentionally stealing" someone else portal which highly doubt because when players intentionally grief by stealing portals they will be doing the same over and over was not the original post situation.

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No, I didn't imply the original poster's friend is a grief player, at least i have no evidence for it.

This is where the definition differs, it wouldnt be called as harassing for simply ignoring the snipers, griefers, and any other similar negative players alike, when the one who's playing victims here claimed to have been harassed by players for not raising them after thay have failed to be cooperative.

This is no different than having a tank in a content cleaving the party with extra damage from mobs because the said tank refuses to position them properly despite being told to (communication).. and said tank gets voted kicked and coming back to the forum igniting of being abused by the community simply because the tank is not cooperative.

It is up to you whether to try BA or not, but i already said that at least in chaos data center, anybody can request to be a raid lead, it doesnt even require any talking, and you would even have some veterans helping you forming it.. The important rules to abide are setting up a schedule within empty time slot so it doesnt clash with other group, and not taking someone else's portal.. which is to say these are pretty much mutual agreement for everybody to have a chance doing BA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Appreciate your advise but no thank you what have seen here in this thread and other threads is enough.
It's not for the threads being biased is more about how people express their hate towards other players even if they are recently joined players who not know the mechanics or by mistake want to try new content.

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Lol that's a very quick way to discredit your entire opinion, good job.

Toxic people exist, that doesn't reflect the content nor the discord unless you have specifically experienced those things consistently with the content or the discord, which you clearly have not.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

The problem with looking from an outside view here, is that you don't know exactly how things go on inside of what you're looking at. -snip-

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Thanks for this explanation. As someone who isn't going to to touch Eureka, the lack of knowledge strongly works in OP's favor.

maybe the real baldesion arsenal was the friends we made along the way?

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

As someone who has actually participated in BA and the Discord, I do recommend to give it a shot! Our first timer learning group made it all the way to Ozma today! If you don't like it, you don't like it and you don't have to come back. To spout this kind of nonsense when you haven't even tried is very small-minded.

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I think I was in your support group for that run lol. What started as a fragment run ended up as an Ozma prog group. That BA group is a perfect example of how fun it is when you join with people at your current level of the content. People were helpful explaining AV and the group managed to kill it. And took almost 15min explaining Ozma and told people there's no problem if they made a mistake since it's just a learning party. We had a sniper for our support group that I was going to invite to our group, since they seemed to not know what's going on but they just left immediately. I can't tell if they did it on purpose or not, but they probably got reported for that by others.

The benefit of discord is not voice chat, but the ability to organize 56 people that are at your same progression level that the game doesn't even give you the option of pre-forming before you queue into the instance. Yet, some prefer to snipe a portal and say "I hate discord" "I don't need discord" "how can I learn if I don't get in?", end up in a group that is most likely beyond their level of progress, end up dying to simple mechanics, and then say "BA groups are elitists!". Seems like the best way to learn /s. If the companion app provided the same features as discord for organization, the same problem will still exist and you'll still hear "I shouldn't need the app to play the game".

IMO, if you aren't willing to put up with discord for it, you clearly don't wanna clear BA that badly. :v Having to communicate with others in a discord isn't that scary. Put on your WoL pants and be brave. I managed to lead my own group into an Ozma prog last night and I don't even have a mic. If I can do it you guys can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

I think I was in your support group for that run lol. What started as a fragment run ended up as an Ozma prog group. That BA group is a perfect example of how fun it is when you join with people at your current level of the content. People were helpful explaining AV and the group managed to kill it. And took almost 15min explaining Ozma and told people there's no problem if they made a mistake since it's just a learning party. We had a sniper for our support group that I was going to invite to our group, since they seemed to not know what's going on but they just left immediately. I can't tell if they did it on purpose or not, but they probably got reported for that by others.

The benefit of discord is not voice chat, but the ability to organize 56 people that are at your same progression level that the game doesn't even give you the option of pre-forming before you queue into the instance. Yet, some prefer to snipe a portal and say "I hate discord" "I don't need discord" "how can I learn if I don't get in?", end up in a group that is most likely beyond their level of progress, end up dying to simple mechanics, and then say "BA groups are elitists!". Seems like the best way to learn /s. If the companion app provided the same features as discord for organization, the same problem will still exist and you'll still hear "I shouldn't need the app to play the game".

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I am surprise first timer got enough dps to burn down av before the enrage

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

So why don't you have a Final Omega kill? :thinking:

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Three words for you: Pugs gonna pug

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

I am surprise first timer got enough dps to burn down av before the enrage

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The party had lots of people that were geared and there were those who already cleared AV before lol. I have the cloak, and all +2 elemental plus the Physeos RDM relic and was using wisdom of the elder+magic burst logos. AV was killed after the second add phase,which is really good for first timers but shows the importance of gearing up.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

The party had lots of people that were geared and there were those who already cleared AV before lol. I have the cloak, and all +2 elemental plus the Physeos RDM relic and was using wisdom of the elder+magic burst logos. AV was killed after the second add phase,which is really good for first timers but shows the importance of gearing up.

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That made sense and still a nice job. I have seen even reclear group wipe to enrage on av due to a miscall and 1/3 of the people die. I also see someone who walk in re-clear pt with zero elemental gear on and claim you don;t need gear just need good dps rotation.

Raising people in BA is like Russian Roulette. You have to risk dying yourself to do it. I don't blame them for not wanting to run that risk on a random who wandered in completely unprepared, preventing someone who was actually prepared from assisting them. I don't think people who make an honest mistake should be harassed, but there's really no incentive for premades to be welcoming and encouraging to someone who took a portal from someone in the premade. If that proved to be an effective strategy for clearing the content, people would have less incentive to cooperate with the premade, reducing the incentive to use the premade and decreasing the effectiveness of the average group.

Deleveling isn't a big deal in Hydatos anyway. Go grab a Reflect and kill some sprites.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

I think I was in your support group for that run lol. What started as a fragment run ended up as an Ozma prog group. That BA group is a perfect example of how fun it is when you join with people at your current level of the content. People were helpful explaining AV and the group managed to kill it. And took almost 15min explaining Ozma and told people there's no problem if they made a mistake since it's just a learning party. We had a sniper for our support group that I was going to invite to our group, since they seemed to not know what's going on but they just left immediately. I can't tell if they did it on purpose or not, but they probably got reported for that by others.

The benefit of discord is not voice chat, but the ability to organize 56 people that are at your same progression level that the game doesn't even give you the option of pre-forming before you queue into the instance. Yet, some prefer to snipe a portal and say "I hate discord" "I don't need discord" "how can I learn if I don't get in?", end up in a group that is most likely beyond their level of progress, end up dying to simple mechanics, and then say "BA groups are elitists!". Seems like the best way to learn /s. If the companion app provided the same features as discord for organization, the same problem will still exist and you'll still hear "I shouldn't need the app to play the game".

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You were! I recognized you, but I play on my main so more than likely not the other way around. It was a super fun run and my team (Wind) was almost entirely new people. They were so nervous and excited they made it all the way to Ozma first time. If this is what elitism looks like, helping new players and laughing and cheering everyone on, then I'll stay an elitist thank you very much.

As for the sniper, I bet they felt really stupid afterwards. They did come in and immediately leave just to grief us and lock out one innocent person who maybe just wanted to practice. We had no support group so we offered to the instance to gather up some people to PUG and still had people trying to sabotage the BA group.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnnaRosa

Appreciate your advise but no thank you what have seen here in this thread and other threads is enough.

This forum thread among others related to the subject do portrait well whats the players attitude towards players that aren't aware of the full mechanics and do use the portals with no intention to steal them but to try the new content am so sorry my opinion offends you or your discord magical group, it doesn't change the fact how your attitude reflects here in the forum.
If you were so innocent players wouldn't even be here complaining about harassment on your part so yes this thread will be a good reference in the future.

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This is the prevalent attitude of people who stomp their feet about the Discord.

Person : I want to do BA but I'm scared of the BA Discord elitists.
Discord : Hey, no reason to be scared! We're super nice and explain all the bosses and everyone is welcome to join regardless of skill level. We also prefer it if you queue up through the Discord to give everyone a fair chance. Jumping into a portal randomly might not be the best way to learn or to progress due to being unable to appraise logograms or switch jobs inside.
Person : UHHHHH no thanks elitist! Portals don't belong to you! Stop being toxic!!!!! I'll never finish BA because of these elitist gatekeepers!!!
Discord : But we invited you-
Person : ELITIST!

Also, have you considered people can lie? You do know that people are actively going out of their way to try and tear down the Discord because they are spiteful?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

This is the prevalent attitude of people who stomp their feet about the Discord.

Person : I want to do BA but I'm scared of the BA Discord elitists.
Discord : Hey, no reason to be scared! We're super nice and explain all the bosses and everyone is welcome to join regardless of skill level. We also prefer it if you queue up through the Discord to give everyone a fair chance. Jumping into a portal randomly might not be the best way to learn or to progress due to being unable to appraise logograms or switch jobs inside.
Person : UHHHHH no thanks elitist! Portals don't belong to you! Stop being toxic!!!!! I'll never finish BA because of these elitist gatekeepers!!!
Discord : But we invited you-
Person : ELITIST!

Also, have you considered people can lie? You do know that people are actively going out of their way to try and tear down the Discord because they are spiteful?

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Looking through these various threads that's not really true, as while you have people making the discords sound nice, you then have people claiming to be from the discords join in saying things that make the discords sound like really unpleasant places. If everyone was like you lay out there then we would have a lot less of these threads.

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Originally Posted by Xellos2099

That made sense and still a nice job. I have seen even reclear group wipe to enrage on av due to a miscall and 1/3 of the people die. I also see someone who walk in re-clear pt with zero elemental gear on and claim you don;t need gear just need good dps rotation.

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That's true of were talking about regular content. But, the elemental increase has a drastic dps increase here. It can put you at level 65 equivalence. And if you combine it with appropriate logos it becomes destructive. So not having the gear can easily put you down the dps list compared to someone who has the full set and suck at their rotation (think of it as someone at level 50 fighting a level 55 mob compared to someone that is bad at their rotation but at level 55).

My fastest AV kill was 3:40 min so that's even half of his enrage timer. Can you kill AV before his enrage with no elemental gear? Sure you can but that's assuming no deaths, and all 56 know their rotation very well.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Looking through these various threads that's not really true, as while you have people making the discords sound nice, you then have people claiming to be from the discords join in saying things that make the discords sound like really unpleasant places. If everyone was like you lay out there then we would have a lot less of these threads.

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I wont name names, but some of these people who are vehemently anti-Discord that have been on the Discord were kicked for being a**holes and breaking the Discord rules. Such as going into ruin other groups runs with the sole intent of harming the run and harassing other players. Others are upset that the queues take a while, which is understandable. More people are learning, too afraid to lead, or just not playing tank. This is why I HEAVILY recommend checking out the Discord before making assumptions based on what others say.