Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Putting them in a gaol doesn't solve the problem. They should be permabanned. :/

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If the player doesn't mind their account eventually getting terminated (permanently banned), then that is exactly what will happen after repeated offences.

https://i.imgflip.com/1ucvlf.jpg

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Also another thing to think about: you can't get to optimal DPS if you are failing mechanics. Knowing mechanics come first, then you can work on optimizing your rotations.

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If you go into mechanics without a focus on optimizing your rotations, there will be little improvement. You should be looking at each mechanic THROUGH THE LENS of your rotations. What is it doing? What is it delaying? What's coming next? How do I adjust? The mechanics themselves are just the shallowest point of their impact on gameplay.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

If SE wanted players using parsers, they would have put one in. Instead they ban people who get caught using them. That should tell you people something. Also, SE is not the only one. SEGA bans people for using them in PSO2 as well. I'm certain other games also ban them. If you want to use parsers, go play a game that allows for their use like Echo of Soul or something.

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This might mean something if XIV's stance in virtually any and all issues weren't makeshift and primarily reactive. I agree that they are aiming for placation of the largest body of players, but that is very different from a design goal, and saying that something is missing in XIV of all games is proof of design... we must be seeing very different QoL suggestion threads, the majority of content in which are MMO staples.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Sorry but I disagree with you. Parsing has always been a cancer in MMOs and it gives players the excuse to be toxic jerks and wave their e-peens around as if it mattered. Knowing your mechanics imo is far better than trying to do high dps. If you are dead, then you aren't doing any dps.

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Name on fight in any endgame where you can stand still as a DPS, do mechanics perfectly but zero DPS and still clear the fight. While ever there are DPS checks and enrage timers there's a need for parsers. Enrage means X-DPS done in Y-time. I don't care if you dance around the room with perfect twinkle toes, bad DPS is bad DPS

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

If you go into mechanics without a focus on optimizing your rotations, there will be little improvement. You should be looking at each mechanic THROUGH THE LENS of your rotations. What is it doing? What is it delaying? What's coming next? How do I adjust? The mechanics themselves are just the shallowest point of their impact on gameplay.

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That depends on the person. Not everyone learns that way. For some, it's better to learn mechanics first, then focus on your dps.

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This might mean something if XIV's stance in virtually any and all issues weren't makeshift and primarily reactive.

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2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.

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Doesn't seem reactive to me since it's in the ToS. Imo, all parser users should get permabanned on a first offense, no exceptions.

Imo you should be banned for making everyone else's lives difficult

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Originally Posted by Enyalios

Name on fight in any endgame where you can stand still as a DPS, do mechanics perfectly but zero DPS and still clear the fight. While ever there are DPS checks and enrage timers there's a need for parsers. Enrage means X-DPS done in Y-time. I don't care if you dance around the room with perfect twinkle toes, bad DPS is bad DPS

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I don't think you read what I said. If there was a need for parsers SE would have put them in. Since they didn't and its against the ToS for using them, the game does not need parsers. As you just mentioned, enrage mechanic is a good way to know that "oh look, the raid party isn't doing enough dps, maybe we should try to do better so we can do more damage and not let the boss get enraged." You don't need a parser for that when the game tells you with a mechanic that you are not doing enough damage.

Oh look, enrage. Who is the weak link? How would we know? Let's use a parser

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Originally Posted by Enyalios

Oh look, enrage. Who is the weak link? How would we know? Let's use a parser

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Instead of calling out one person, maybe actually get together as a group and get better? Also, based on some other threads I've been lurking on, apparently it's easy to tell just from watching other people to see if they are doing bad or not so again, why do you need a parser when you can tell who is doing bad without one and the game was not built for a parser?

What you are doing is actively encouraging the player base to never improve. Making life difficult for those who want to improve. I wouldn't expect stellar top tier DPS from everyone, but crappy DPS is crappy DPS. How can you ever know if you're doing well? How can you tell if what you're doing is right? Until you see yourself next to someone else of the same class or performing you you will never know. "We don't need parsers boohoo" only tells me that you're one of those poor DPS who can't clear endgame, gets told left and right to up how game and is a bit grumpy about this. Get over yourself and accept it

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Instead of calling out one person, maybe actually get together as a group and get better? Also, based on some other threads I've been lurking on, apparently it's easy to tell just from watching other people to see if they are doing bad or not so again, why do you need a parser when you can tell who is doing bad without one and the game was not built for a parser?

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Are you mad? How can you tell if someone is doing bad? By their enmity bar or something? I don't know about you but the last thing I'm doing is watching other players cast bars and movements while doing endgame. I'm doing that thing you claim is all you need to do. Mechanics. Of course, I'm not doing crap tier DPS though

They should add in parsing so that the times where the DPS contributes the most, people will know and commend them for it at the end of the run.

What you should do is let the community decide. Make a poll and you'll soon see the bulk of the community wants some sort of representation. The OP is 100% right, DPS are not accounted for nor rewarded. You can work your hardest and get zero comms. This needs to change

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Originally Posted by Enyalios

snipt

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lol, nice ad hominem, I'll humor you. You have no idea how I play the game. I haven't even got into endgame Savage yet and no one has complained about my lack of doing rotations and in fact, people commend me because I actually seem to know what I'm doing, without a parser! Gasp unbelievable I know.

And having a parser doesn't make a person better. All it does is make people be toxic and again, wave their e-peens around. Having a parser wouldn't make me better and I know a lot where it wouldn't make others better either so your argument is moot. Again, apparently there are ways to tell if a dps is doing crappy without a parser. There are other ways too improve without a parser. It's not necessary and again, if it was, SE would have built them into the game.

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Originally Posted by Enyalios

The OP is 100% right, DPS are not accounted for nor rewarded. You can work your hardest and get zero comms. This needs to change

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Not for sure what your problem is, I get commendations all the time for being a dps.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

They should add in parsing so that the times where the DPS contributes the most, people will know and commend them for it at the end of the run.

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Pretty much what I do and most likely why I ever get commendations as a DPS (took awhile to join the 3000 commendation club).

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Instead of calling out one person, maybe actually get together as a group and get better? Also, based on some other threads I've been lurking on, apparently it's easy to tell just from watching other people to see if they are doing bad or not so again, why do you need a parser when you can tell who is doing bad without one and the game was not built for a parser?

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1. Those threads referred to casual content / drastic indications of poor play. Most players will not know that an early Geirskogul rotation is ideal for x fight under y circumstances, etc., etc., let alone be on the look out for every oGCD sync and CD match-up.
2. What makes a game any more or less "built for a parser". If anything, XIV is built for a parser more most, in that it actually has dedicated datalogs by which to parse, rather than requiring network interception. WoW and others have this as well, but not all games that have parsers can make do with non-interceptive parsing.
3. How do you intend to improve "as a group", when you have little idea how each person is faring? If you mean this in terms of a strategy meeting over relative potency spreadsheets, then I suppose this is possible. If you're talking "huddle up, and let's talk this out so we can all have our heads in the game", you'd be actively hampering that goal by neglecting objective performance metrics, likely irritating those who are already performing maximally, and would find yourself much less able to spot the problems as they occur.

LMAO non raider says we don't need parsers and thinks he's doing ok! Your point is invalid and further cements the OP. DPS do not get called out for doing bad DPS cos there's no way to tell. Parsers are needed cos i assure you, you'd get called out daily.

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Originally Posted by Enyalios

LMAO non raider says we don't need parsers and thinks he's doing ok! Your point is invalid and further cements the OP. DPS do not get called out for doing bad DPS cos there's no way to tell. Parsers are needed cos i assure you, you'd get called out daily.

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Lol, we'll see since I am going to enter Savage soon. If I catch anyone is using parsers, I'll report them in an instant. I'll leave this here in case you missed it the first time:

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2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Lol, we'll see since I am going to enter Savage soon. If I catch anyone is using parsers, I'll report them in an instant. I'll leave this here in case you missed it the first time:

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And when you join the raiding community they're gonna call you out every single time for being bad. I cannot wait

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Originally Posted by Enyalios

And when you join the raiding community they're gonna call you out every single time for being bad. I cannot wait

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I love proving people like you wrong. I run across your type all the time and it gives me one of the last few satisfactions in life. :P

You haven't proved anything! All you've done is cement the OPs point and showed that DPS are not accounted for. You'll do a poor job at end game and be a poor DPS. I can't wait

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

lol, nice ad hominem, I'll humor you. You have no idea how I play the game. I haven't even got into endgame Savage yet and no one has complained about my lack of doing rotations and in fact, people commend me because I actually seem to know what I'm doing, without a parser! Gasp unbelievable I know.

And having a parser doesn't make a person better. All it does is make people be toxic and again, wave their e-peens around. Having a parser wouldn't make me better and I know a lot where it wouldn't make others better either so your argument is moot.

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No one has argued that parsers make directly make players better. They do, however, make players more aware of their performance and the dynamics within, which greatly facilitates improvement. The sad thing is that you seem to feel so strongly that players who actively neglect self-improvement need to be protected from any implication that they can and should improve that you would joyfully ban anyone who comes forward with objective evidence and/or concrete advice therefrom.

Parsers don't make people toxic. Toxic people go from swinging around their ilvl to something that at least has real value when given a parser. Do not mistake a change in expression of toxicity for a newly surfaced nature. At worst a parser makes already irate players more accurate; whether it rightly stings more as a result is hardly a change in toxicity itself. It just means the breadth of option is more sharply focused; rather than one "carry" yelling at everyone else, he is asking only those who are underperforming to shape up. A narrower spread is not an increase to toxicity except to a player who routinely underperforms.

Now, this may differ depending on your definition of toxicity. If an earnest plea from one player to another to learn his level-capped class so he doesn't hold back group after group after group is toxicity to you, understand there is an opposite to that extreme—wherein underperforming to that extent, in effect trolling regardless of intent, is toxicity. So yes, players may become more willing and able to promote their own performance goals when they can be sure that they first are absolutely meeting them. And thus its discussion increases. Information tends to do that.

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Originally Posted by Enyalios

You haven't proved anything! All you've done is cement the OPs point and showed that DPS are not accounted for. You'll do a poor job at end game and be a poor DPS. I can't wait

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lol, I haven't said I proved anything yet, I said I'm going to enjoy proving you wrong. If you going to try to bully or bait me, at least get your reading comprehension down first, lmfao.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Lol, we'll see since I am going to enter Savage soon.

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Hi, I'm looking to raid. I look forward to working with you and having you banned if I suspect you are making use of commonplace information systems.

"What happened to our Astrologian?"
"Oh, his Balance decisions were seemingly hyper-accurate, so the Black Mage figured he was parsing and had him banned."
"Not because he never got cards?"
"Do you think he actually knew why?"

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

lol, I haven't said I proved anything yet, I said I'm going to enjoy proving you wrong. If you going to try to bully or bait me, at least get your reading comprehension down first, lmfao.

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Please, tell me. How're you gonna prove you're not a bad DPS and prove me wrong? We don't have parsers ;)

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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I won't disagree that it makes people aware, but its up to the player to make the decision to improve and 9 out of 10 times from my experience it just makes them a toxic d**k. I've seen my friends suffer from dumbnuts who think they are better than everyone else because they started using a parser, being bullied upon, and even worse. "Oh look at me I have my 98th percentile rating in my raid, whats your problem? GTFO cuz I want nothing to do with you anymore" and other nonsense that is not conductive to an active game community. I've seen good friendships destroyed because of parsers because so called friends are too busy preening their feathers and putting their friends down instead of just playing the game.

I never said anything that a bad player needs to be protected. However, a bad player can be called out without use of a parser. Also, if a player sucks so bad that even after telling them mechanics and how to do an optimized rotation and they still suck, yeah that player needs kicked.

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Originally Posted by Enyalios

Please, tell me. How're you gonna prove you're not a bad DPS and prove me wrong? We don't have parsers

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Oh no, I'm going to prove you wrong that I will be called out in Savage. I'll be more than happy to post logs of each battle if you want so you can see any convos. :P

The reports will do nothing thankfully. I've never used a parser myself, but as someone who delved into raiding in 2.0 and 3.0, parsers are everywhere and people discuss them openly, and GM's aren't gonna go around mass banning players for trying to win at the game regardless of what the rule states. They actually want to keep their customers.

Tbh, when someone showed me a while back my DPS was lacking all it did was motivate me to get my DPS up to par and it helped me tremendously.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Instead of calling out one person, maybe actually get together as a group and get better? Also, based on some other threads I've been lurking on, apparently it's easy to tell just from watching other people to see if they are doing bad or not so again, why do you need a parser when you can tell who is doing bad without one and the game was not built for a parser?

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Or how about that one should perform strive for self-improvement instead of using everyone else as a crutch? There are guides, everywhere, where you can fall back to. This forum, reddit, personal blogs, in form of google docs, even video ones on YouTube.
How come we only have to work for getting better if the others don't even bother to try?

Can we like....stop the nonsense? Seriously? I can't believe this topic has gone on this long. It's like the people arguing ignore all the sensible posts that solve the whole conversation and just argue to argue. Then they wonder why people don't want parsers.

People ask for parsers claiming a few things. They claim they want to help people improve themselves, or find out the weak link that is causing them to hit enrage, or to evaluate themselves, and some, without saying it, just want to lord their numbers over others. This confuses me because all of this can be done in the game already, save the last one.

SE is pretty much running with a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Let's be honest; they aren't stupid. They know most people raiding and doing semi to hardcore content run parsers. They know you are doing it. And as long as you aren't being report and outright say you are, and as long as you aren't harassing anyone, they let you do what you want. Parsers ARE against their ToS, but it's just there to prevent harassment and malicious programs. So use them all you want, SE will just ignore that you are until you give them a reason to look at you.

That said, 99% of the reasons people re asking for parsers are already things now. Want to self-improve? There's plenty of resources out there to seek. You have to issues with getting banned or anything because only you know you are running the thing. You don;t have to tell anyone or let anyone know in game because you are just improving yourself...right?

Trying to help others? They will be the same. You can point them in the direction of guides and even help them get their own. As long as it's just between you and them, it's no issue if you really trying to help them and they want it right?

So what about finding the weak link that's making you hit enrage? Nothing is stopping you from parsing the group right? You just can't say anything. So just let them know they are doing not-so-great damage. They know you are parsing, but as long as you don't actually say you are, you are safe. If they want to improve, they will improve and we'll be at point number 2. If they don't, they'll just blow you off and make excuses, in which case, just kick them or leave the group. If they ask for proof, just say "I was watching you, I just know." It's likely they are just trying to make excuses and call you out for using a parser. You not being able to show them doesn't stop you from leaving the group or kicking them. You don't have to provide actual proof to do those things.

So that just leaves the last reason people want the built in parsers, which for those that have this reason, will not admit. The people that want to lord their numbers over others. "I'm the best DPS in this group, you all suck" and such. Without a parser to show them, this doesn't really matter. It's the only reason that actually needs the parser to be used where it can't be used now. And parsers can't be used now because this is the reason that births most of the toxicity and harassment that the anti-parser said use for their side.

What does all that mean? Parsers are fine how they are now. If you if you aren't trying to force things on others, then everything is fine. If a good player wants to get better after being told they are low DPS, then they'll seek out the information, even if parsers can't be shown in-game. If a bad player is called out, even an in-game parser won't make them perform better. They'll just lie or make excuses, even with definitive proof in their face.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

No it will not. Tanking and healing have more pressure than dps because their roles are support. Their first job is to maintain the safety of the party, the rest comes after. Whereas a dps's first job is to hit things. Tanking and healing requires much more group-wide responsibility, whereas dps responsibility is usually to themselves. A parser doesn't magically change the responsibility tanks and healers have.

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I find healing to be more relaxing than DPSing :<. Well, in expert and 24 mans at least. Haven't "savage" healed since T5 was relevant.

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

So far this expansion alone, every whistle has gone to the player who sat there dead most of the fight, and every Ala Mhigo mount has gone to the player who ate every mechanic.

So yeah, even though it's anecdotal, right now the score is 100% chance.

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My static's DRG said she has gotten loot from savage only when she died at least once.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Lol, we'll see since I am going to enter Savage soon. If I catch anyone is using parsers, I'll report them in an instant. I'll leave this here in case you missed it the first time:

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Parsers have nothing to do with data mining.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

What does all that mean? Parsers are fine how they are now. If you if you aren't trying to force things on others, then everything is fine. If a good player wants to get better after being told they are low DPS, then they'll seek out the information, even if parsers can't be shown in-game. If a bad player is called out, even an in-game parser won't make them perform better. They'll just lie or make excuses, even with definitive proof in their face.

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Let's be real. The people who would ridicule someone in Braylox Longstop or Sastasha over their DPS alone would be an absolute minority. No one is forcing anyone to do anything by putting the feature into the game itself. I personally would like to keep track of my DPS and others DPS in-game without having to use external tools.

I'm a Tank and Healer main, due to the way this game is by design for these roles, everything you do is practically in the spotlight. If you don't heal correctly, the DPS automatically know, or the Tank knows. If the Tank doesn't keep aggro, the DPS or Healer automatically knows (I mean there's even a meter that DPS and Healers can see just to check in how good the Tank is keeping aggro).

If I fail to Esuna someone and it leads to their death, people know where to look. If I fail to tank swap at a certain moment and it leads to the other Tank's death, people know where to look.

But here we have DPS that have no clear signs of when they are making mistakes in their play in their specific role (DPS) when simple dungeons are being failed, then fingers start being pointed at random people for that reason. One person who might be doing really great DPS will have the finger pointed at them because there's no way to check in-game to see who is causing the team to lose.

If as Tank or Healer people can see my mistakes right in the open the second I make them, is it really that unreasonable we have a way to encourage and help the DPS get better so that everyone (including the DPS who may not realize it) can defeat the dungeon or raid?

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

lol, nice ad hominem, I'll humor you. You have no idea how I play the game. I haven't even got into endgame Savage yet and no one has complained about my lack of doing rotations and in fact, people commend me because I actually seem to know what I'm doing, without a parser! Gasp unbelievable I know.

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This isn't an argument. I've had Monks with sub-600 DPS and a Black Mage who couldn't break 500 yet thought they were good. The standards people have various substantially, and many players confuse healer or tank damage with what the actual DPS are doing. Regardless, no one really cares what you do in a dungeon. It's faceroll content you barely require a pulse for unless the tank mass pulls. Where people start to care is endgame content. Zurvan EX exposed the staggering amount of players who can't execute a basic opener. Skipping Soar should have been a cakewalk yet I went into parties where five or even six DPS couldn't manage to skip Demon's Claw, nevermind Soar. Parses wouldn't change anything except exposing lazy players who are content with allowing others to carry them. Toxic people will be toxic with or without the tool. They simply use ACT and kick bad players without saying a word. Take a look at PF. You see all those "bad DPS will be kicked," "Replacing people after multiple wipes." They all have parses going.

An official parse would help those who want to improve see where things aren't clicking without relying on third party programs. Provided SE enforced their policies, harassment would be handled the same way it is now.

My standards for DPS in dungeon is that as long as they spam AoEs when 3+ mobs in trash pulls I'm happy. (Yes my standards are really low)

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

Let's be real. The people who would ridicule someone in Braylox Longstop or Sastasha over their DPS alone would be an absolute minority. No one is forcing anyone to do anything by putting the feature into the game itself. I personally would like to keep track of my DPSand others DPS in-game without having to use external tools.

I'm a Tank and Healer main, due to the way this game is by design for these roles, everything you do is practically in the spotlight. If you don't heal correctly, the DPS automatically know, or the Tank knows. If the Tank doesn't keep aggro, the DPS or Healer automatically knows (I mean there's even a meter that DPS and Healers can see just to check in how good the Tank is keeping aggro).

If I fail to Esuna someone and it leads to their death, people know where to look. If I fail to tank swap at a certain moment and it leads to the other Tank's death, people know where to look.

But here we have DPS that have no clear signs of when they are making mistakes in their play in their specific role (DPS) when simple dungeons are being failed, then fingers start being pointed at random people for that reason. One person who might be doing really great DPS will have the finger pointed at them because there's no way to check in-game to see who is causing the team to lose.

If as Tank or Healer people can see my mistakes right in the open the second I make them, is it really that unreasonable we have a way to encourage and help the DPS get better so that everyone (including the DPS who may not realize it) can defeat the dungeon or raid?

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LOL! I just got called out for impulse drive spam in Sastasha. He tried to say doing 4 CDs vorpal combo is 60 potency more, so I said that is nice, and what lives longer then 2-3 GCDs here? .. Also I did not know how 20=60 =/

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

My standards for DPS in dungeon is that as long as they spam AoEs when 3+ mobs in trash pulls I'm happy. (Yes my standards are really low)

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Not many have aoe in Sastasha :3 but ya I get the idea, use your aoes when you are at the level to use them

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

1. Those threads referred to casual content / drastic indications of poor play. Most players will not know that an early Geirskogul rotation is ideal for x fight under y circumstances, etc., etc., let alone be on the look out for every oGCD sync and CD match-up.
2. What makes a game any more or less "built for a parser". If anything, XIV is built for a parser more most, in that it actually has dedicated datalogs by which to parse, rather than requiring network interception. WoW and others have this as well, but not all games that have parsers can make do with non-interceptive parsing.
3. How do you intend to improve "as a group", when you have little idea how each person is faring? If you mean this in terms of a strategy meeting over relative potency spreadsheets, then I suppose this is possible. If you're talking "huddle up, and let's talk this out so we can all have our heads in the game", you'd be actively hampering that goal by neglecting objective performance metrics, likely irritating those who are already performing maximally, and would find yourself much less able to spot the problems as they occur.

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This, i am observant but not that observant. It is hard to do when you are trying to play optimally yourself, trying to spot little mistakes, i/e, spotting a 1.6k rotation vs 3.2k is easy, spotting a 4.0k vs 3.2k not so much.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

This isn't an argument. I've had Monks with sub-600 DPS and a Black Mage who couldn't break 500 yet thought they were good. The standards people have various substantially, and many players confuse healer or tank damage with what the actual DPS are doing. Regardless, no one really cares what you do in a dungeon. It's faceroll content you barely require a pulse for unless the tank mass pulls. Where people start to care is endgame content. Zurvan EX exposed the staggering amount of players who can't execute a basic opener. Skipping Soar should have been a cakewalk yet I went into parties where five or even six DPS couldn't manage to skip Demon's Claw, nevermind Soar. Parses wouldn't change anything except exposing lazy players who are content with allowing others to carry them. Toxic people will be toxic with or without the tool. They simply use ACT and kick bad players without saying a word. Take a look at PF. You see all those "bad DPS will be kicked," "Replacing people after multiple wipes." They all have parses going.

An official parse would help those who want to improve see where things aren't clicking without relying on third party programs. Provided SE enforced their policies, harassment would be handled the same way it is now.

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Yup, the comments to AphraelAmarantha, if we assume rdm, prob where impressed they saw no hardcasting XD

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

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Wrong again. SE has no issues with people using parsers like ACT as long as they don't use it to grief others and only use it as a personal tool to gauge how you are performing. Many FC's that progress in savage raiding and even world first groups all use them. As for your last point you would be correct, however once you've nailed the mechanics of a given encounter if you are unable to perform at a decently high level, you won't get past enrage timers, That's where parsers come in handy and why people use them to see what went wrong on a encounter and how they, the player can fix it.

So let me just sum everything. People sucks, with or without help/tools. Is that really a surprise?

Why would anyone be so uptight about a practically, by definition, leveling dungeons.
Don't have time then don't do it. It's the right/only place for people to enjoy the game and and sip drinks.
There is expert and endgame raids to be competitive. People will learn everything on their own pace,
just relax. They will see how unfit they are when they get to it. Under level 70 is not something you force on.

Edit: And I'm glad OP made the thread. SE will never put a single parser/dps meter as long threads like this exists.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Doesn't seem reactive to me since it's in the ToS. Imo, all parser users should get permabanned on a first offense, no exceptions.

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"Let's ban the entire raiding community for using a parser in their raiding videos!"

Do you know how much of a PR disaster that would be? FFXIV already gets enough flak as is from mainstream gaming websites for being a themepark MMO with a predictable release cycle and low difficulty outside of Savage raids. You want the devs to chase a ton of potential new customers away by shutting out the portion of the community that's FAR more likely to engage in free advertising of the game via word of mouth?

This is exactly what I mean when I say I fear the balance of community power is starting to veer hard towards 'casual', and the game's going to be tremendously hurt because of it. Because of hardliners like you that only care about what you yourself wants, rather than considering the long term impacts it'll have on the game community. And plus, looking over your lodestone info AND forum join date, it's clear you only started playing with SB release. I don't think you even know how this community really works yet.

If you think SE isn't aware that all the top raiders use parsers, you got another thing coming to you. This is exactly why there's a 'don't ask/don't tell/don't be a jackass' policy regarding parsers. Hell, a good majority of the people invited to the pre-SB release media tour were known parsing users.

Plus, you keep talking about datamining. I don't think you know what that actually means. Hint: There's a chat tab labeled 'Battle'. All parsing does is read data from that chat tab. If that's considered datamining, then reading the freaking skill tooltips is datamining too.

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One could argue that an official parser might actually even help in terms of actual enforcement. Right now, there's really no way for SE to tell if someone's parsing (and kicked someone because of it) unless they outright flatly admit it in chat. With an official one, it removes all shadow of a doubt that the player was kicked due to a toxic asshole due to parse results. On the other hand, the kicked player would also know exactly why they were kicked too.

I'd say an official parser would also really, really cut down on the 'DPS HEALURZZZ' threads tremendously, because it'd result in an actual shifting of responsibility to the DPS. People know I openly parse due to mentioning it numerous times on the forum. Post SB, I no longer give a damn whether the healers DPS or not in freaking EX roulette runs, because typically the amount of damage that healers are capable of contributing is now far less relative to the rest of the party compared to HW and before. Having a tank die because of the 'BALLS TO THE WALL DPS HEALER MENTALITY' is a far greater DPS loss than anything else in the game.

Admittedly though, an official parser won't ever exist, though. And it's not because of how the NA community treats parses, believe it or not. You can blame a certain Japanese raiding group for that. Let me tell you guys a story, of what happened approximately 2 years ago.

Within the Japanese community, SE had an official community streamer on Japan's equivalent of YouTube (NicoNico) known as Koike. She once streamed herself putting up a party finder for one of the Coil raids. Lo and behold, about 6 members of one of Japan's top raiding groups at the time joined in to troll her. They proceeded to launch sexist remarks at her, deliberately sabotaged the run, and threw in mentions of her parsing results on top of that. She cried on-stream. In GLORIOUS revenge, the Japanese community responded by essentially doxxing the entire FC, and created an army of naked Roegadyn alts to parade in front of their FC house in a massive protest (100% serious - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOkhhTUjJi0). The group changed their names in an attempt to hide, but the Japanese community manager at the time decided they should be suspended. Last I heard, they're unbanned now, but they've been heavily monitored since.

Now, one could easily argue that parsers also had minimal impact on the actual incident, but it was a factor that contributed to major PR shaming for the game at the time, and that's all SE cares about. The JP community tends to take the public image of the game far, FAR more seriously than we do.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Sorry but I disagree with you. Parsing has always been a cancer in MMOs and it gives players the excuse to be toxic jerks and wave their e-peens around as if it mattered. Knowing your mechanics imo is far better than trying to do high dps. If you are dead, then you aren't doing any dps.

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I'd be 100% right there with you if not for the fact that this game has DPS checks in all of its raid encounters (unless there are some bosses that don't have enrages, but my static never let those go on long enough to happen).

Is it any wonder that so many DPS players hit max level and can't meet these DPS requirements?

It's like healers and tanks are the only ones who have to play the REAL game (ie keep people alive while dodging mechanics) from 1-cap while DPS wait until raids before the game says, "Okay, NOW we're gonna punish you for not playing to these standards you never realized existed..."

Also, parsers in WoW don't lead to nearly the "calling out" that people seem to think they do (especially not in dungeons). It's actually very rare to get an elitist jerk who's like "LOOK AT MY DEEPS!".

Furthermore, if we're so worried about people being toxic because of parsers, what's the difference between someone being toxic over a parser and someone just being toxic in general, or toxic because of the perceived weakness of a particular class?

So long as there are penalties for being a jerk to people in game, any concern over parser toxicity is completely unwarranted.

I just want a parser for PS4. Even if it is just a self-parser, it would help me know if I was improving. I can't think of a single reason that the game shouldn't give you a score at the end of a duty at the very least so you can compare yourself to others of your class/job. Just a thought.

Yet another we want a parser thread. Not going to happen. If you are that concerned about how everyone else is doing, just make some friends and do everything with them. This whole fight is ridiculous. It's a GAME.