Concerns about the PvP and why it might not succeed, though I want it to very much!

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Originally Posted by Nils1986

Question : Will PVP be only for lvl50 or it will be by 5lvls tiers like in every other MMO?

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Level 30, Level 40, and Level 50 only, if the beta was anything to go by. So if you're under level 30, no pvp for you. Maybe when housing pvp is out, but I wonder just how expansive it is.

Is housing pvp 1v1 only or can we setup team fights?

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

Level 30, Level 40, and Level 50 only, if the beta was anything to go by. So if you're under level 30, no pvp for you. Maybe when housing pvp is out, but I wonder just how expansive it is.

Is housing pvp 1v1 only or can we setup team fights?

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So we don't even get an open world dueling/deathmatch system? >_<

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Nope a 4vs4 / 8vs8 arena for now with proper matchmaking and pvp systems, then for 2.2 or 2.3 there will be realm vs realm :)

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I knew about the arena. Very, very disappointed we don't get any kind of voluntary open world dueling/deathmatch system. Not happy at all.

Nope a 4vs4 / 8vs8 arena for now with proper matchmaking and pvp systems, then for 2.2 or 2.3 there will be realm vs realm :)

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Originally Posted by Borfin

Oh no, I missed the words Wolf's Den when the devs mentioned their plans to address specific content.

Quick, everyone get high and mighty.

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I can see how you would miss it only reading half of what is said to you. There were posts directly above yours explaining the one line of info as well as many in this thread. There is also a QA thread as well as multiple threads and posts on it. You not only missed the one line of said information.

Yiou outright ignored posts telling you that information. If you think I am acting high and mighty you should examine your personal feelings and confidence. Ive merely told you to actually pay attetntion for once.

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Originally Posted by Borfin

Your white knighting and turning a blind eye does nothing to help SE recognize the problem.

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I read that, and skipped your several paragraphs ranting about god knows what. I did laugh at you, because if you actually read my statement you would realize it was sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

Level 30, Level 40, and Level 50 only, if the beta was anything to go by. So if you're under level 30, no pvp for you. Maybe when housing pvp is out, but I wonder just how expansive it is.

Is housing pvp 1v1 only or can we setup team fights?

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YES! So making a twink is going to be possible :D
I'm glad i have a sh*itload of materias.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Hello all,

We will also be implementing new equipment and skills in patch 2.1 specifically to aid in balance for PvP. And as Yoshi-P specifically mentioned last week, we will continue to look into the causes for any lag that might occur and counter them to ensure players have a smooth experience.

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Does this mean they will consider putting some server's in the EU so ALL the game can be playable and not just PvP ?

Had some more insights into PvP that we wanted to drop here for your discussion:

In the Wolves’ Den you’re matched via the Duty Finder with the regular 4-person party setup (1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS). If you’re looking to mix it up, you can make your own party, and organize the setup as you like. Also anyone organizing their own party setup will be matched with a team doing likewise, and not a randomly organized party.

Be sure to check out the next Letter from the Producer LIVE XI (Dec 14th), where we’ll be focusing a lot on the Wolves’ Den, and doing our best to answer all your questions!

well that's unfortunate, because during the beta test it just matched any 4 people together. So now you're telling us we have to wait for a tank for PvP when enmity is an irrelevant consideration in PvP gameplay? That's not to say that tanks won't be effective but PvP is not traditional gameplay so why make it require a traditional party setup?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

well that's unfortunate, because during the beta test it just matched any 4 people together. So now you're telling us we have to wait for a tank for PvP when enmity is an irrelevant consideration in PvP gameplay? That's not to say that tanks won't be effective but PvP is not traditional gameplay so why make it require a traditional party setup?

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We don't quite know how the new tanks work in PvP yet w/ the new skillsets. It could be a thing where a tank can force you to target them for a while similar to other MMOs making them useful. I think it's a good idea for random teams to at least have some composition to them. Also, keep in mind that post-patch warriors will be in great demand, and their DPS is adequate enough for pvp.

However, the whole thing about "if you're in a pre-made team you will only fight pre-made teams" is a little concerning, as it feels that there will be 2 types of ranking. Ranking with pre-made, and ranking with randoms. I don't know how seriously they're taking the PvP scores though. I just want more information on what options are available for housing pvp just in case.

The more I read about the pvp the more disappointed I get. :(

I can only imagine they more specifically want to ensure the random parties always have a healer (which DOES have a big impact on the gameplay) and I guess they figured they had to throw the tank role in there too to ensure those players got parties.

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So we don't even get an open world dueling/deathmatch system? >_<

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There will be no open world PvP of any kind. Especially before ARR came out all the PvP haters insisted that it not be allowed. I don't really care personally.

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We don't quite know how the new tanks work in PvP yet w/ the new skillsets.

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Tanks were perfectly effective in the beta test, I'm not saying tanks are bad, I'm just saying the tank role itself isn't a required part of team comp in PvP the way it is in PvE. Tanks are just high sustain low damage melee characters in PvP (generally).

Frankly I was looking forward to PvP being the one party thing in the game where DPS wouldn't have to wait forever for the duty finder. Now, with this change announced, we will have to wait forever again just like every other duty finder content....

I love PvP, and I had fun with it in the beta test. Now they keep coming forward with stupid decisions that I fear willl really ruin it even though i may personally still enjoy it.

So, tl;dr:

1) Get rid of "Fresh Meat."

2) Get rid of the 1/1/2 party setup since it didn't originally have it in the first place.

That's all it will take to make me happy.

Or because Tanks won't get to PVP unless they add a system like this ... and if they PVP they want them to have an equal opportunity to have some fun.

This would otherwise become a nightmare for tanks and a place they might feel generally unwelcome. By forcing you to have a tank in DF PVP they get the same chance to participate and they will be matched up against another tank which avoids the issue of stacking. Leaving the best possible PVP setups to people who plan their groups ahead of time.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Had some more insights into PvP that we wanted to drop here for your discussion:

In the Wolves’ Den you’re matched via the Duty Finder with the regular 4-person party setup (1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS). If you’re looking to mix it up, you can make your own party, and organize the setup as you like. Also anyone organizing their own party setup will be matched with a team doing likewise, and not a randomly organized party.

Be sure to check out the next Letter from the Producer LIVE XI (Dec 14th), where we’ll be focusing a lot on the Wolves’ Den, and doing our best to answer all your questions!

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I don't get why would Yoshi restrict the room into 4vs4 when instance dungeon works with 8 players and 24 players for patch 2.1?

IMO, i think it's not wrong to give 8vs8 room available along with 4vs4 as people will show their creativity to combine the jobs, more friends & people will get more fun with this. CMIIW :)

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

In the Wolves’ Den you’re matched via the Duty Finder with the regular 4-person party setup (1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS).

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http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_man06esc9g1rwr0kz.gif

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I love PvP, and I had fun with it in the beta test.

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The beta test was pretty broken though. Besides the obvious sleep abuse, the main problem with it was that players simply weren't doing enough damage to each other. If the healer was alive they could heal the entire party with their eyes closed. Hopefully the morale stat and PvP specific abilities means we can actually defeat other players in a decently short amount of time, or every PvP match will just be a matter of which team's healer dies first.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

The beta test was pretty broken though. Besides the obvious sleep abuse, the main problem with it was that players simply weren't doing enough damage to each other. If the healer was alive they could heal the entire party with their eyes closed. Hopefully the morale stat and PvP specific abilities means we can actually defeat other players in a decently short amount of time, or every PvP match will just be a matter of which team's healer dies first.

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The PvP-exlcusive skills will include crowd control breakers and such to address those types of issues.

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Originally Posted by Kairgon

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_man06esc9g1rwr0kz.gif

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Why facepalm?

Do you want to enter a random party and find yourself with 4 scholars? Just to name one.

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Originally Posted by Ashgarth

Why facepalm?

Do you want to enter a random party and find yourself with 4 scholars? Just to name one.

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Yes, that would be a potentially challenging team comp. dot the enemy and heal eachother? swiftcast rezzes? I think you're trying timply that 4 scholars would be a bad team comp but I think it would work just fine.

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Originally Posted by Curagaja

Maybe they will make it so you can't attack a player unless that player is the top of your hate list? Seems really stupid but it's the only reason I can think of that they would force you to have a tank in your party if you use duty finder.

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Could be adding force-target abilities for tanks. (Ex. Force enemy players to lock target on tank for 10 seconds)
Also, emphasis might be on cover abilities instead of enmity management

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

well that's unfortunate, because during the beta test it just matched any 4 people together. So now you're telling us we have to wait for a tank for PvP when enmity is an irrelevant consideration in PvP gameplay? That's not to say that tanks won't be effective but PvP is not traditional gameplay so why make it require a traditional party setup?

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Maybe the tank get an PvP ability, that force a player to target him until the effect run out?
We know in 2 weeks

Maybe you guys should just wait for more info / release of the WD?

Because saying you don't like this and that without ever have tested it (no beta doesn't count) is ...selfish.

Cut fresh meat out! :)
And like it has been said xi increased the range of melee to help with lag. Moves like provoking forced you to attack the tank even if you were not targeting them. I'm interested in how PvP in housing areas is going to work. Hope its not just 1v1 but its better then none at all. Think ill be spending a lot of time in these new area's. Can't wait for the next two weeks to pass.

Make "fresh meat" optional!

ugh, pvp sounds more crap the more i hear about it, i am not looking forward to it, so will see how it is in video and how it turns out, not gunna get me hopes up.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Yes, that would be a potentially challenging team comp. dot the enemy and heal eachother? swiftcast rezzes? I think you're trying timply that 4 scholars would be a bad team comp but I think it would work just fine.

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That'd be a Nightmare for a DD actually...

Focus on player and faeries will heal them. Aldio for shield.
All the while suffering from DoTs/debuffs.
Focus on Faerie, smite it, Scholar swiftcasts another at full health =.=
Hahahahaha....

A WHM could probably out heal the dots...
But no chance in hell the current Esuna (& GCD) is going to get red of all the dots...

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Originally Posted by Ashgarth

Why facepalm?

Do you want to enter a random party and find yourself with 4 scholars? Just to name one.

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I'm fine with whatever it give us as random, anything will be challenge. Since I'm PVP'er Hardcore. But making it 1 tank 1 healer 2 dps as solo.. Do you realized it would be another waiting duty finder to popped such as 15-30min just cause of few tank out there?(probably healer too, who know) That and, As it seem many final fantasy crowd isnt pvp'er so that probablygoing be thing worse for que. But like people saying I'll just see it in 2 week, Since afterall theyre saying that were getting different abilities from PVE one.

But that's how I feel about it.

They probably just want you to be paired up with randoms of each role instead of just randomly throw in all classes together.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

In the Wolves’ Den you’re matched via the Duty Finder with the regular 4-person party setup (1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS). If you’re looking to mix it up, you can make your own party, and organize the setup as you like. Also anyone organizing their own party setup will be matched with a team doing likewise, and not a randomly organized party.

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Just looking for a bit of clarification on this detail,

Within the bounds of the 4-person party setup, are friends queuing together (groups of 2 or 3) matched with randomly organised parties? or is this group of 2-3 regarded as an organised group?

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Originally Posted by Valen91

Within the bounds of the 4-person party setup, are friends queuing together (groups of 2 or 3) matched with randomly organised parties? or is this group of 2-3 regarded as an organised group?

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No. Just like the actual game, if you go into DF with an incomplete party, it forces you to use the premade party composition if 2dps 1tank 1healer.

What I wonder, is if you have a party of 4, and go in with 2dps 1tank 1healer will it still pit you against a premade?

Yeah that's what I mean, if it operates in the same way that the DF does, say for example you're queuing with 1 tank, 2 DPS and it fills the missing healer (who is queuing solo), do they get matched up against a premade team (4 people from the same FC) or do they get put against any randomly organised party?

I think all the people complaining don't seem to understand you can still make your own set ups, just for PUG's through DF it will be balanced and you know what to expect when queueing solo, nothing ruined my day in other games when everyone FOTM comped, it's what ruins PvP in the long term and makes people cry for nerfs/buffs, as they blame classes for their inability to work or set up a remotely good team...

DF PvP sounds great, Pre-made PvP is where it's at if you want to make your own comps (and yes it is seperate from DF PvP so why complain?) , I wouldn't complain I think they are doing a good job for keeping PUG's a favor in that respect, keeping some balance, plus everyone who says tanks won't be any good in PvP, probably don't have a clue about PvP in general =__=;;

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Originally Posted by Knoahl

I think all the people complaining don't seem to understand you can still make your own set ups, just for PUG's through DF it will be balanced and you know what to expect when queueing solo, nothing ruined my day in other games when everyone FOTM comped, it's what ruins PvP in the long term and makes people cry for nerfs/buffs, as they blame classes for their inability to work or set up a remotely good team...

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As someone who enjoys the competitive side of pvp, I'm not overly concerned with the pug v pug games as it will have little to no bearing on what will make or break this games pvp. However, I do see certain issues arising (particularly in the early days) whereby potentially, premade teams of 3 are registered as random pugs and go on to farm pugs ad nauseam for the purpose of farming gear and getting an early advantage (and just carrying the final person).

As we know from any pvp forum, there will be a whole lot of QQ about teams of 3 being unfair for the poor solo casual player who gets his face stomped while just trying to enjoy some basic and "fair" games.
Now the vast majority of people who partake in pvp, they are not your hardcore competitive types and so issues such as this affects them and in turn issues SE has to deal with.
Particularly in a highly pve orientated game such as this, you are less likely to find competitive pvpers.

So I think its fair to think about these potential issues, even if at this stage it is mostly conjecture.
Those of us interested just have to wait till the 14th to hopefully hear a lot more details about how the system is going to work and then see how it all pans out when 2.1 hits.

I just wish the term "Fresh Meat" could be replaced with "Opponents" at least (though I prefer team names too).

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Originally Posted by Sadana

I just wish the term "Fresh Meat" could be replaced with "Opponents" at least (though I prefer team names too).

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I think their names should have just been Paladin, White Mage, Bard, Black Mage, etc. I think that would clear up any complaints people are having...

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Originally Posted by RaijinkenXIII

I think their names should have just been Paladin, White Mage, Bard, Black Mage, etc. I think that would clear up any complaints people are having...

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I thought the Fresh Meat appellation was for the team as a whole, not individual members. My mistake. I agree that job names should be used instead.

How exactly do you get fame from pvp when everyone is named "fresh meat"?

Doesnt this just toss out a huge motivation to do pvp. Which is to be a well known pvper?

so I read these post and can not help but notice most of the responses are from people who clearly have never been in area style battles or pvp in general. I will explain why this system is not going to work out.
A duty finder pvp system with 4 mans only is not going to attract any pvp mmo players. Most like group battles of a dozen or more and open world style pvp, forcing a tank healer dps group is just stupid. Anyone who has a clue will send all 3 after the healer right off the bat. healer-dps-dps-tank is the kill order. so people can make premades but still only 4x4 and a duty finder wait of well I guess we will see what the wait will be 15 mins, a hour who knows. so now solo players will have even less motivation to play this game or resub cause we already know the game has a tank shortage issue. Oh and the well do you want to fight 4 sch sure go for it, anyone who did arena battles before knows the most effective combo of players will be found out rather fast.

PvP pug will never be competitive, like all pve content, they are still think that this game have to be accessible for all and that's why they will fail in long-term. First time i see a mmo with a static setup for both. There is no question of rewarding the reputation to buy a simple furniture for the stupid housing.

If anyone played PvP in beta they would know that having a tank is useful as provoke makes your opponent drop their target for x amount of time so you can only attack the tank. These kinds of strategic plays make PvP exciting.

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Originally Posted by jebali

so I read these post and can not help but notice most of the responses are from people who clearly have never been in area style battles or pvp in general.

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Your criticism is irrevalent in this case. All arena style PvP, focus healer is always the priorty. There is no difference between tank/2DD/healer and 3DD/healer. Adding a tank into composition only making PvP to have more strategic element. Different than WoW arena, tank provoke is actully working. The PvP itself will no longer be a focus zerging feast.

WoW arena is a failure system, it is always a never ending Waltz between DPS complaing healers heal too much vs healers complains DPS doing too much damage. Adding a tank with provoke mechanism is likely to bring a equilbrium.