Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

I think I'll stick with my "Slow Start" and get my super deeps going as I believe 7 Fire 4's off of one chain before the B4 refresh will be worth it over the first 8 seconds of a Fire rotation. Unless I can be sure that the boss will die in 8 seconds which is generally never the case.

And I really like fishing for those TC procs.

Hello, what is the BiS for BLM ? Is the guide at ffxivguild correct? I'm wondering if its worth overmelding crafted gear vs just getting the 240 or 230 counterparts..

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Originally Posted by LetBloodline

Are you adding up the ice phase? You should add up until you are ready to start next rotation otherwise swiftcast flare then B3 whould be the best rotation ever. The longher you can stay active in Astral fire the better. Refresh enochian after 15 secs doesn't seem to be this good

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I may or may not have somehow missed one spell from the normal duration calcs including SS. That's what you get when you do quick math, I guess. The Eno rota was pretty quick when I looked at it today. Let's try this again, this time from F3 to B4 no Thunder.

Norm: 144.05 PPS 20.52s
6xF4: 140.84 PPS 28.23s

Closer, but still needs the near instant mana tick during B3 F3 in the middle for it to even work. Adding in T1 puts them slightly closer still, but the normal is ahead. A cute idea at least. As a sidenote, it doesn't matter how fast you refresh your Eno as long as it doesn't drop during fire before manual refresh because of it. And we can't get enough SS to make that happen.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

I never had an issue doing it. I guess it depends how your group deals with those protean's.

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

About Blizzard opener in A3S: I haven't encountered any problems at all. If you B3 > T1 > Sharp > F3 > F1 > Fire cycle, you can easily time your Firestarter for the Protean Wave.

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Does FS have to be used earlier than normal then? F3 starter in A3S used FS + swift on their natural position when Protean happened. Not that it matters that much anymore.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Wait wat. Edit inc.





Does FS have to be used earlier than normal then? F3 starter in A3S used FS + swift on their natural position when Protean happened. Not that it matters that much anymore.

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I could dodge protean's by a stutter step between F4's (EU servers really helped). My group worked around me only having to make the bare minimum movement in that phase.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

DPS is the factor in all of this. Let me stress: Damage Per Second. Opening with Blizz III is flat out lower DPS. The timer, meaning the "seconds" in DPS, is started the exact moment the boss is engaged. You're getting a 240 Potent Blizz III, 270 Potent Thunder, and 168 Potent Fire III (with potential procs). Thats 678 potency in the first 8 seconds. In the same 8 seconds, you could have dealt 1238.4 potency. Anyway you swing it, there really isn't a comparison. You also have to factor in, Fey Wind is cast immediately, as well as Balance. Battle Litany on drgs 2nd GCD, and Trick Attack shortly after. You're wasting valuable time on small potencies and your potion isn't even up yet.

The point is to kill the boss as quickly as possible. Thats your job. You might be able to add an extra Fire IV or whatnot, but your actual DPS will be lower because its taking you way more time to "ramp up." Plus your missing out on party buffs as well.

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Note that I never said it was always a DPS gain. I just explained some reasoning behind why I use it.

By starting out in your fire phase, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will skip that first Umbral Ice phase - because you end up going back into Ice Phase earlier, and if the boss finishes/does an untargetable phase where you are in Fire Phase instead of Ice, you can potentially lose DPS. It is a DPS loss if you don't get any procs, but as soon as you start getting Thundercloud procs, its a massive gain imo.

Feel free to go check my AS3/AS5 parses (my AS6 one's i'm really not performing well due to some RL stuff) but feel free to do a compare if you wish. My reasoning may be incorrect afterall and i'd be interested in any insight. Note, I don't have a 240 weapon yet :)

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

I could dodge protean's by a stutter step between F4's (EU servers really helped). My group worked around me only having to make the bare minimum movement in that phase.

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Melee range, then? I was in the back and ran out and back in during FS and Swift. Didn't lose any cast time doing that. The migration to EU servers, though. Managed to kill myself a couple of times to Protean, because the small lag I was used to was not there anymore and ran back in too early.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

By starting out in your fire phase, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will skip that first Umbral Ice phase - because you end up going back into Ice Phase earlier, and if the boss finishes/does an untargetable phase where you are in Fire Phase instead of Ice, you can potentially lose DPS. It is a DPS loss if you don't get any procs, but as soon as you start getting Thundercloud procs, its a massive gain imo.

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I think it was behind when you don't get TC and ahead when you get a TC. Can't remember by how much to either way, though. Just remember not to use it too often, no matter how shiny that button looks. It is a very shiny button, I'll give you that.

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

Hello, what is the BiS for BLM ? Is the guide at ffxivguild correct? I'm wondering if its worth overmelding crafted gear vs just getting the 240 or 230 counterparts..

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While i do not have any 240 yet this is what i am using. For the time being it is certainly viable as it is actually better then most of the lore gear (none upgraded)
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/U2C8
I would caution on FFXIV guild as in the past they have not been accurate before on bis. This time around though i think the author is correct from what i had seen.

Any crafted HQ gear with at least 3 correct materia is equivalent to a lore 230 or slightly better
And a perfect melding would be on par with a 240 (minus intel/vit loss)

Ffxiv guild is out of date now, it need to be strongly revised

@Maero some of your meld are... Meeeeeeh x3

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

Any crafted HQ gear with at least 3 correct materia is equivalent to a lore 230 or slightly better
And a perfect melding would be on par with a 240 (minus intel/vit loss)

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You can't discount INT loss, and it varies by slot.

240 vs 220 crafted:

• Body/Pants - 20 INT and 20 secondaries vs 3 extra materia slots
• Head/Hands/Feet - 13 INT and 12 secondaries vs 3 extra materia slots
• Belt/Accessories - 10 INT and 9 secondaries vs 4 extra materia slots

I do
Only 240 piece are really strong to overcome the multimeld
I did loot the midine belt during my first down of A5S
And there were no hesitation between this one and the crafted fully meld
The only problem i got was losing a tons of accuracy that force me to take the lore glove
And in the i won a lots of stat (but lose 100 spellspeed XD)

If someone is stuff with 220 midas and lore stuff
À crafted melded pièce will be better

But against midine/repaired lore, the Int/vit gain is too good (especially on savage)

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

Hello, what is the BiS for BLM ? Is the guide at ffxivguild correct? I'm wondering if its worth overmelding crafted gear vs just getting the 240 or 230 counterparts..

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I think I'll be going with this for the time being
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/U2DP

Note the accuracy comes in at 599, if it does turn out that it is indeed 600 (not sure it's been confirmed yet?), I'll prob have to swap round a couple of melds

@Nekotee that is your opinion, i am not 100% fully melded like i wanted as A) i hate bothering FC members each time i need melds, and B) i hate crafting
Besides this was a temporary thing for some of my melds as i had planned on swapping them out at a later time
Crafted gear is better then the lore (230) gear for many pieces.
I also can only spend so much tomes as i also play Ninja XD

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Melee range, then? I was in the back and ran out and back in during FS and Swift. Didn't lose any cast time doing that. The migration to EU servers, though. Managed to kill myself a couple of times to Protean, because the small lag I was used to was not there anymore and ran back in too early.

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Pretty close to Melee range. I remember when the servers changed, tether swaps and pot animation lock was so much more smoother.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

I think it was behind when you don't get TC and ahead when you get a TC. Can't remember by how much to either way, though. Just remember not to use it too often, no matter how shiny that button looks. It is a very shiny button, I'll give you that.

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Thats right - if you get a proc, it pulls ahead iirc. I've had pulls go with 3 Thundercloud procs before. There's certainly room to do it if you've got enough spellspeed and have Fey Wind.

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Originally Posted by Maero

@Nekotee that is your opinion, i am not 100% fully melded like i wanted as A) i hate bothering FC members each time i need melds, and B) i hate crafting
Besides this was a temporary thing for some of my melds as i had planned on swapping them out at a later time
Crafted gear is better then the lore (230) gear for many pieces.
I also can only spend so much tomes as i also play Ninja XD

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To be clear, crafted gear is only better than lore gear on your way to 240. A full 240 BiS, while meeting the accuracy requirement does not include crafted pieces. I'm not sure if thats what you mean. Like the crafted chest is easily better than the Lore chest, but that doesn't mean its BiS. I'm sure you mean that, I just wanted to clarify.

My static just called it quits and I have transferred servers, but I'm hearing A8S acc cap is 594. If that is the case, than this should be the absolute BiS: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/U2TQ unless I'm missing something

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

To be clear, crafted gear is only better than lore gear on your way to 240. A full 240 BiS, while meeting the accuracy requirement does not include crafted pieces. I'm not sure if thats what you mean. Like the crafted chest is easily better than the Lore chest, but that doesn't mean its BiS. I'm sure you mean that, I just wanted to clarify.

My static just called it quits and I have transferred servers, but I'm hearing A8S acc cap is 594. If that is the case, than this should be the absolute BiS: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/U2TQ unless I'm missing something

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Where is the math behind all i240 neck being better than crafted i220 neck pentamelded or the i230 lore ring over i240 midan one.

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Where is the math behind all i240 necl being better than crafted i220 neck pentamelded or the i230 lore ring over i240 midan one.

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Huh? Why would I compare the i230 Lore ring to the i240 midan ring? You have to wear one of each.

As far as the necklace is concerned, a pentamelded crafted necklace is not better than the Midan necklace. If you pentameld the necklace with all Tier V's you'd be looking at 51 intelligence, 46 acc, 36, Crit, 12 Det, and 44 SS. First, if you're using the stats weights on Ariyala as reference, there is no way in hell that Spell Speed weighs 0.413. That number is way too high. Its not even close to that. My caculations put it somewhere more around 0.275, which is still high for a stat weight this early into the expansion. So assuming the stat weights on Ariyala are correct with the exception of SS, thats 51 Int + (36 Crit * 0.206) + (12 Det * 0.172) + (44 SS * 0.275) = 72.58. The Midan neck would be 61 Int + (51 Crit * 0.206) + (12 SS * 0.275) = 74.806. And even if SS was weighed at something like 0.35 (which there is no way), it would put them about even, but with 10 less Accuracy. There is really no arguing this one. You can compare a crafted piece to a midan piece, and the crafted piece might even come out on top, but if you're taking accuracy into account, then you can't just look at a piece to piece comparison.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

Huh? Why would I compare the i230 Lore ring to the i240 midan ring? You have to wear one of each.

As far as the necklace is concerned, a pentamelded crafted necklace is not better than the Midan necklace. If you pentameld the necklace with all Tier V's you'd be looking at 51 intelligence, 46 acc, 36, Crit, 12 Det, and 44 SS. First, if you're using the stats weights on Ariyala as reference, there is no way in hell that Spell Speed weighs 0.413. That number is way too high. Its not even close to that. My caculations put it somewhere more around 0.275, which is still high for a stat weight this early into the expansion. So assuming the stat weights on Ariyala are correct with the exception of SS, thats 51 Int + (36 Crit * 0.206) + (12 Det * 0.172) + (44 SS * 0.275) = 72.58. The Midan neck would be 61 Int + (51 Crit * 0.206) + (12 SS * 0.275) = 74.806. And even if SS was weighed at something like 0.35 (which there is no way), it would put them about even, but with 10 less Accuracy. There is really no arguing this one. You can compare a crafted piece to a midan piece, and the crafted piece might even come out on top, but if you're taking accuracy into account, then you can't just look at a piece to piece comparison.

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Incorrect. You can wear the i240 lore ring and the non-upgraded i230 lore ring, which destroys the Midan ring.

Here is a comparison from the build you posted on the previous page vs the build I posted before(http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/U2VK)

Putting SSPD at 0.321, you would gain 10.926 int from build over yours.

Also, can I see the source data behind those spell speed calculations of yours ?

Hell, even with only 1 V overmeld , even with your spell speed weight of 0.275, which is just as unfounded as the weight of 0.413, this set still beats out yours(+5.55 int, and -22 piety) and it uses i230 ring+i220 necklace. realistically the gain is much higher because spell speed isn't that low, but even if we lean towards your side of the argument and go by your numbers, your set is still worse, and you're still wrong.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/U2VP

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Snap

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Cool. I don't mind being proven wrong, so not really any need to e-peen about it. I'm fine with having an adult discussion, and I misunderstood your comparison between the lore and Midan ring. No reason to get all bent out of shape.

But it costs so much ;_;

Hey, I've seen some blms melding a small amount of piety on their gear. Could anyone link me back to where this may have been discussed on this thread? Just how common is this? How worth it is it? Getting that thunder out?

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Originally Posted by Milkbeard

Hey, I've seen some blms melding a small amount of piety on their gear. Could anyone link me back to where this may have been discussed on this thread? Just how common is this? How worth it is it? Getting that thunder out?

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There hasn't been that much of a discussion about it, a few comments here and there. Two PIE V melds lets you always get that T1 off instead of doing B1. I was thinking about doing it, but didn't in the end. Now whatever it's worth it or not is really hard to say. You lose a few secondaries to sometimes convert B1 into T1 and maybe get an extra TC through that. You most likely won't ever notice the loss of 24 secondaries and natural RNG affects your DPS more than that amount of stats, so I guess?

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

Huh? Why would I compare the i230 Lore ring to the i240 midan ring? You have to wear one of each.

As far as the necklace is concerned, a pentamelded crafted necklace is not better than the Midan necklace. If you pentameld the necklace with all Tier V's you'd be looking at 51 intelligence, 46 acc, 36, Crit, 12 Det, and 44 SS. First, if you're using the stats weights on Ariyala as reference, there is no way in hell that Spell Speed weighs 0.413. That number is way too high. Its not even close to that. My caculations put it somewhere more around 0.275, which is still high for a stat weight this early into the expansion. So assuming the stat weights on Ariyala are correct with the exception of SS, thats 51 Int + (36 Crit * 0.206) + (12 Det * 0.172) + (44 SS * 0.275) = 72.58. The Midan neck would be 61 Int + (51 Crit * 0.206) + (12 SS * 0.275) = 74.806. And even if SS was weighed at something like 0.35 (which there is no way), it would put them about even, but with 10 less Accuracy. There is really no arguing this one. You can compare a crafted piece to a midan piece, and the crafted piece might even come out on top, but if you're taking accuracy into account, then you can't just look at a piece to piece comparison.

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Why do you say its too high, and why are your weights correct? Where are your calculations?

FYI, the i-level we're at currently can get is above 2.4 - 2.4 was i130 (with i50 being the base), whereas we're at i240 now with i150 being the base.

After how many months of you posting your stat weight, you've still failed at producing any kind of evidence, so right now it is as verified as the 0.413. I.e, none whatsoever.

Also @Kairi

Miunih says that he has misses with 593 accuracy in AS8 - was you previous post a typo?

I definately mean't that, and why i had stated lore gear non upgraded ;)
The materia cost me nothing but yes the chest piece and accesories was a tad expensive. C'est la vie!
Currently i sit at 600 ac exactly.
More crit and determination would be nice but slowly getting crafters levelled so i can meld myself and not pester people all the time.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

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I corrected him and replied saying it was an auto-attack most likely and he said that was probably it. I am having no misses so far at 592 either but need to play with it more to confirm if it's 100% accurate or not, though I don't think I can get a BiS that can use that accuracy anyway.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

Why do you say its too high, and why are your weights correct? Where are your calculations?

FYI, the i-level we're at currently can get is above 2.4 - 2.4 was i130 (with i50 being the base), whereas we're at i240 now with i150 being the base.

After how many months of you posting your stat weight, you've still failed at producing any kind of evidence, so right now it is as verified as the 0.413. I.e, none whatsoever.

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I have never once stated that my stat weights are correct. I have stated multiple times on here and in the guide that stat weights are not confirmed. The stats weights I am currently using are the ones listed on Ariyala, with the exception of SS which is listed at 0.413. I also added the stat weights to my guide more to show ppl how they work, and that was added Apr 21st, so not sure where you're getting the "many months" from.

Anyways, I'm not trying to argue. Can I prove that SS is not weighed at 0.413? No, I cannot. But I've been playing BLM a long time and 0.413 is just too high. We all know the stat priority. I honestly don't care what you believe. I only want to give ppl who are looking to learn, the best advice I can give. I'm not trying to cheat anyone or mislead anyone or give false information.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

There hasn't been that much of a discussion about it, a few comments here and there. Two PIE V melds lets you always get that T1 off instead of doing B1. I was thinking about doing it, but didn't in the end. Now whatever it's worth it or not is really hard to say. You lose a few secondaries to sometimes convert B1 into T1 and maybe get an extra TC through that. You most likely won't ever notice the loss of 24 secondaries and natural RNG affects your DPS more than that amount of stats, so I guess?

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Hey thanks for the input!

How much crit are you guys packing?

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

I have never once stated that my stat weights are correct. I have stated multiple times on here and in the guide that stat weights are not confirmed. The stats weights I am currently using are the ones listed on Ariyala, with the exception of SS which is listed at 0.413. I also added the stat weights to my guide more to show ppl how they work, and that was added Apr 21st, so not sure where you're getting the "many months" from.

Anyways, I'm not trying to argue. Can I prove that SS is not weighed at 0.413? No, I cannot. But I've been playing BLM a long time and 0.413 is just too high. We all know the stat priority. I honestly don't care what you believe. I only want to give ppl who are looking to learn, the best advice I can give. I'm not trying to cheat anyone or mislead anyone or give false information.

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But you have said statements such as "As far as the necklace is concerned, a pentamelded crafted necklace is not better than the Midan necklace" - using your stat weights.

You really should not be using unconfirmed stat weights in any kind of guide or as a basis for any kind of analysis. The fact that you are touting your own "unconfirmed" stat weight which, as you say yourself are unconfirmed. The many months ago was from when you've been saying other stat weights in this thread, although I may have you confused with someone else so my apologies if that is the case.

The fact of the matter is, you've not said the method in which you've got the stat. The individual who provided the 0.413 weight has - via a simulator. Its still unconfirmed because we've not seen the math behind it, but its still better than pulling a random number out of thin air.

If you don't have a proven accurate stat weighting, state so and give example numbers and make it damn clear that its an example. And don't go and then use those numbers claiming a piece is better than another.

Regarding the 0.413 stat weight - well, at 2.5, the exact weighting at high levels of spellspeed was over 0.3 at that point. The gear we have available now (i240 compared to base i150) is better than in 2.x (i130 compared to base i50). Furthermore, we have some further added benefit of extra spellspeed:

a) Reducing the amount of time spend in Umbral Ice when using T1+B4
b) Potentially increasing the amount of spells you can get under Ley Lines - I haven't done the calculations for the normal rotation, but potentially there is a point that you can do f3, 5 x f4, B3.
c) Higher Potency rotation due to the extra potency of F4
d) More Thundercloud procs - with enough spellspeed, you can get more procs in than you would normally be able to.
e) Spellspeed scales on DoT's now.

That said, we have lost some benefits such as Fey Glow. But I can see why its potentially increased, but without hard numbers and calculations, you cannot say for sure what the number is.

I'm at around 1064 ss, and I am literally scared to lose a single point of it, it seems there is no ceiling for ss, making all gear without ss worthless. I did an experiment by changing a piece of armor to something without ss (dropping to around 978 or something) and it was really bad.

Lots of the lore gear is just disgusting for blms, the odd piece will have ss, boots,belt, legs...a piece of jewlery or something and that's it, (lore weapon is good which is nice).

I want a reforging system in this game, so we can actually use some of the new gear without losing a F4 or 2...

Too much reliance on SS, most gear doesn't have decent ss ---> clunky slow rotations if below 1k ss.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

But you have said statements such as "As far as the necklace is concerned, a pentamelded crafted necklace is not better than the Midan necklace" - using your stat weights.

You really should not be using unconfirmed stat weights in any kind of guide or as a basis for any kind of analysis. The fact that you are touting your own "unconfirmed" stat weight which, as you say yourself are unconfirmed. The many months ago was from when you've been saying other stat weights in this thread, although I may have you confused with someone else so my apologies if that is the case.

The fact of the matter is, you've not said the method in which you've got the stat. The individual who provided the 0.413 weight has - via a simulator. Its still unconfirmed because we've not seen the math behind it, but its still better than pulling a random number out of thin air.

If you don't have a proven accurate stat weighting, state so and give example numbers and make it damn clear that its an example. And don't go and then use those numbers claiming a piece is better than another.

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Ok, so I see your point and I apologize for stating that the Midan necklace was better than the crafted necklace as a fact. It is my opinion that its better. Although, I do state several times that the stat weights are arbitrary and I have I my nose to the ground and will update as soon as numbers can be confirmed and validated. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I never care about being right or wrong. I didn't make this guide because I believe I'm the best at this. I did it to help the community and there wasn't really a guide that had all the information in one spot. And the others that have created guides are gone from the game. Plus, most guides really only spoke of endgame rotations, while negating the basics of the class and the game in general. I don't plan on going anywhere for a very long time, so I know I'll be around to continue managing the guide into the future.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

Regarding the 0.413 stat weight - well, at 2.5, the exact weighting at high levels of spellspeed was over 0.3 at that point. The gear we have available now (i240 compared to base i150) is better than in 2.x (i130 compared to base i50). Furthermore, we have some further added benefit of extra spellspeed.

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With that being said, the only thing I'll say to counter this statement is, if that were the case, wouldn't all the stat weights be higher? Toward the end of the expansion, all 3 secondaries hovered around 0.2 - 0.3. Yes, SS was higher than Det and Crit, but not by that much. They were all higher than 0.2. Now I know SS has changed a bit with our Enochian and AF timers being a big factor, and also that SS now affects DoTs, but Crit was also adjusted to now include damage done as well as rate. If SS was really as high as 0.413 (which it might be), I would expect Det and Crit to be in the high 0.2s, with Crit probably being in the 0.3s. Again, I'm not stating this as fact. But with my experience with the game and the class, I feel 0.413 is too high. Dervy also agrees that number is way too high. Truthfully, I've been waiting for him to level BLM and do the stat weights, because we all know he knows what he's doing.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

But I can see why its potentially increased, but without hard numbers and calculations, you cannot say for sure what the number is.

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.413 is 1.4 times the next proposed highest secondary on any other job (.295 on BRD's Critical), which is why it simply doesn't pass the smell test... at least when it comes to dummy DPS. Speaking of which, I need a BLM damage formula gimme gimme

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

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Keep in mind, 2 separate individuals ran independent simulations that were designed independently as well and came out with similar values.

Stat Weights

A quote from that link summarizes why SS has such a high value.

"Spell Speed is absolutely bonkers for BLM. The number I've given here is technically lower than my simulations return because there are a lot of weird inflection points where small changes in spell speed give huge returns, and it so happens that the amount of speed we get with 3.2 gear puts us in one of those ranges."

The only problem with using 0.413 as a weight for SS is that that value probably only holds true past a certain threshold for SS (i.e. the minimum value to enter the inflection point described above). Below that value, SS probably has a lower weight value as your return is less for each point in SS.

I've seen that, but when they mention that "there are a lot of weird inflection points where small changes in spell speed give huge returns" and "One such round had speed's weight about half that of Weapon Damage" makes it sound like they have exactly the kind of model where you can't trust what it says about speed, because they're doing discretely that what is supposed to be treated as continuous.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

Ok, so I see your point and I apologize for stating that the Midan necklace was better than the crafted necklace as a fact. It is my opinion that its better. Although, I do state several times that the stat weights are arbitrary and I have I my nose to the ground and will update as soon as numbers can be confirmed and validated. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I never care about being right or wrong. I didn't make this guide because I believe I'm the best at this. I did it to help the community and there wasn't really a guide that had all the information in one spot. And the others that have created guides are gone from the game. Plus, most guides really only spoke of endgame rotations, while negating the basics of the class and the game in general. I don't plan on going anywhere for a very long time, so I know I'll be around to continue managing the guide into the future.

With that being said, the only thing I'll say to counter this statement is, if that were the case, wouldn't all the stat weights be higher? Toward the end of the expansion, all 3 secondaries hovered around 0.2 - 0.3. Yes, SS was higher than Det and Crit, but not by that much. They were all higher than 0.2. Now I know SS has changed a bit with our Enochian and AF timers being a big factor, and also that SS now affects DoTs, but Crit was also adjusted to now include damage done as well as rate. If SS was really as high as 0.413 (which it might be), I would expect Det and Crit to be in the high 0.2s, with Crit probably being in the 0.3s. Again, I'm not stating this as fact. But with my experience with the game and the class, I feel 0.413 is too high. Dervy also agrees that number is way too high. Truthfully, I've been waiting for him to level BLM and do the stat weights, because we all know he knows what he's doing.

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Which is great because the game does lack guides, but when it comes to actual statistics and math, I don't like seeing people get misled - either unintentionally or intentionally.

Yes, some stat weights will be higher, although i'm probably not the right person to ask - Crit will be worth more due to the changes to crit. Det for BLM won't have as much of a gain, but with higher gear values and a higher potency rotation i'd imagine it would be worth more. I could be completely off here.

In 2.x, Spellspeed was actually considerably higher point for point than the other stats when you had BiS - to the point where a lot of the BiS pieces were crafted.

My gut says that 0.413 is a bit too high, but I don't have any math to disprove that. If I was to make a completely baseless guess, i'd imagine at BiS levels, it would be Det at 0.15-0.2, Crit at 0.25-0.3 and Spellspeed at 0.35 to 0.4.

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

.413 is 1.4 times the next proposed highest secondary on any other job (.295 on BRD's Critical), which is why it simply doesn't pass the smell test... at least when it comes to dummy DPS. Speaking of which, I need a BLM damage formula gimme gimme

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And I've not disagreed or said that 0.413 is accurate or not accurate. We don't have the data to say that right now.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

And I've not disagreed or said that 0.413 is accurate or not accurate. We don't have the data to say that right now.

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I consider other jobs to be data. They really don't stray too far from each other. ARR BLM was kind of an exception, but now there's oGCD stoppage and stuff....

All in all, I can't actually weight BLM without a BLM damage formula for INT/DET. That's the big missing piece over on my end. The rotation and all its gotchas is a relatively minor detail in comparison (the choices you have are limited anyway; that narrows things down). For example, when I corrected a fairly major problem with melee SS weights about a year ago, the net result was only something like ~10% reduction to the weight. Yes, that counts as a major problem to me; to the gearsets you can actually construct, it is probably not.

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Originally Posted by Milkbeard

Hey, I've seen some blms melding a small amount of piety on their gear. Could anyone link me back to where this may have been discussed on this thread? Just how common is this? How worth it is it? Getting that thunder out?

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I've been doing some playing around and if you meld 2 Pie 5's you can get F4x2 F1 F4x3 and go to B3 no problem for the first 2 rounds of Enochian. Without Ley Lines and without Convert. Threshold for this is the number 10,960 MP. Wait for the mana tick before you go into F3. Only going to work if you start with B3. You's probably want 310 to make it happen. As a Hellsguard and the 35 bonus I sit at 318.

Just note for reference the first Enoch round you can sneak in a T1 after your B3 before B4. 2nd round is not possible I believe.

Meld 5 Pie V's and you can get yourself a 4th Fire 2 and have just enough for your Flares. By waiting for the Mana tick and going into F3 you can do F2x4 leaving you with 896 MP whereas minimum cost for Flare is 884.

And this is only if you pumped all 35 of your points into Piety as well. Which for me is 351. I only put Pie 5's into the right side slots.

That is as far as I would go though.

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

I've seen that, but when they mention that "there are a lot of weird inflection points where small changes in spell speed give huge returns" and "One such round had speed's weight about half that of Weapon Damage" makes it sound like they have exactly the kind of model where you can't trust what it says about speed, because they're doing discretely that what is supposed to be treated as continuous.

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I think that is what is difficult about both BLM and BRD with the SPD stat.

BLM for instance when you reach a 5XF4 rotation would be another major jump in SPD value but only for that jump. (1674 SPD?)

Same sort of thing with BRD and Heavy Shot causing SS procs to effeciently sync into weaving BL and EA. (Both 2.0GCD and 2.25GCD are milestones for that)

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

I think that is what is difficult about both BLM and BRD with the SPD stat.

BLM for instance when you reach a 5XF4 rotation would be another major jump in SPD value but only for that jump. (1674 SPD?)

Same sort of thing with BRD and Heavy Shot causing SS procs to effeciently sync into weaving BL and EA. (Both 2.0GCD and 2.25GCD are milestones for that)

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I highly doubt SE will allow that to happen. If they wanted us to be able just spam Fire IV, they would have made it refresh AF. When it gets to a point where our Spell Speed is high enough to cast 5 Fire IVs, I would expect a nerf to AF and bringing it back down to 10s

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

I consider other jobs to be data. They really don't stray too far from each other. ARR BLM was kind of an exception, but now there's oGCD stoppage and stuff....

All in all, I can't actually weight BLM without a BLM damage formula for INT/DET. That's the big missing piece over on my end. The rotation and all its gotchas is a relatively minor detail in comparison (the choices you have are limited anyway; that narrows things down). For example, when I corrected a fairly major problem with melee SS weights about a year ago, the net result was only something like ~10% reduction to the weight. Yes, that counts as a major problem to me; to the gearsets you can actually construct, it is probably not.

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Funnily enough, this appeared on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...n_methodology/

I've not had chance to go through it and evaluate it though. Maybe it will be useful

About that 0.413 Spell Speed stat weight... :p

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...dology/d35hkp3