Why do people want solo play in an MMORPG?

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I wouldn't mind "Story missions with Boss fights to be with a Light/Full Party" Why call it a "boss" if you just going to kill his wimpy behind solo style? The in-between quests should be soloable, but Boss fights should at the very least be a light party ( 4 players)

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Solo doesn't have to mean easy though, think of RDM maat for instance. There were a LOT of people that had trouble with him, he was solo, he wasn't easy for a lot of people.

I wouldn't mind light party stuff for storyline, I'm totally not opposed to that.

Like it was stated earlier in the thread though, solo really doesn't have to mean easy. You can have VERY challenging and fulfilling solo content that can test your skills. 1 person doesn't = hurr let me just go cast stone and I'll watch a pretty CS after.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

There is some misconception that solo = easy. Albeit if you have content that has no requirement (solo or party) you may find doing quests designed for solo play easy in a party or quests designed for a party hard solo (you can get around this of course through systems that force values).

However again, solo != easy. That is fault to the designers and not fault to the idea itself. You can make extremely difficult solo content, or really easy.

I dont really care how difficult the content is so long as the quality of work required and the amount of work itself matches the reward.

1.0 slow solo leveling was not the way to go at least when I played, rather you could get a party to max level in a day just by powerleveling (I avoided most of these because I wanted to level my characters once the game got better - so I only have 3 level 50s, and I focused small income on one).

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The idea of something solo... is obviously just 1 person, content where you rely on nobody but yourself is easier than any content where you have to rely on 6 people, 6 people doing the right thing is always going to be harder than 1 person doing the right thing.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

The idea of something solo... is obviously just 1 person, content where you rely on nobody but yourself is easier than any content where you have to rely on 6 people, 6 people doing the right thing is always going to be harder than 1 person doing the right thing.

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Not entirely true again - Solo you have no safety net, you cannot make any mistakes but if you make a mistake as a party, you have other people there to help pick up the pieces.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

The idea of something solo... is obviously just 1 person, content where you rely on nobody but yourself is easier than any content where you have to rely on 6 people, 6 people doing the right thing is always going to be harder than 1 person doing the right thing.

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No its not. If you rely on yourself and you go in WAR - who is going to raise and cure you?

If you go into a party with a great group the content (at least for me) has always been easy. Everyone nails it and if someone dies like the tank you just mix it up and pull a wanky raise tank revival.

There are different challenges between solo, light, and heavy groups - but intrinsically that doesn't make one superior to the other in difficulty.

Oh I almost forgot. Something alot of people need to keep in mind is that a game that is heavy party play forces the community to not suck. In FFXI if you were a douch/ninja/botter/ w/e then word would get out in the community and that person wouldnt get invited to anything anymore. If the game is too solo friendly, it will promote bad behaviour because they know they can get away with it.

Also on the same subject, will 2.0 finally conform with the majority of new age MMO's and make each individual player have their own loot?

ARR will cater to both types of players, ones who seek grouping and ones who seek solo play, with plenty of content for both types of players. So everyone will find their "Style" of play in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Nix

I've played MMOs in my free time for many years and for me the biggest amount of pleasure has come from hanging with a really small group, like 2~4 people (close friends, husband etc) and just knocking out content where we could.

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I was in a static group in FFXI with a full party's worth of people I knew in either RL or through extension of my RL friends. It was some of the most fun I ever had, even though we only played about 2 hours a day.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Casuals are 100% required in MMO's to have a functioning economy. Casuals should just stop trying to dumb down content so the game can be completed by them (I am not refering to the story line, all should complete that).

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A Casual is usually someone that has little time to play, not someone unskilled at the game.

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FF11 the content lasted years and people loved it, as in 10yrs of planning to keep gear relevant and to keep these people who never stop playing always busy, the content never ended because it was well designed for everyone.

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The content lasted years because it took a minimum of three days to gather enough crap together to fight Kirin only for it to take you three years to totally gear every person's main job in your LS thanks to the RNG lottery. Don't confuse by-design time sink with great game design.

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

Oh I almost forgot. Something alot of people need to keep in mind is that a game that is heavy party play forces the community to not suck. In FFXI if you were a douch/ninja/botter/ w/e then word would get out in the community and that person wouldnt get invited to anything anymore. If the game is too solo friendly, it will promote bad behaviour because they know they can get away with it.

Also on the same subject, will 2.0 finally conform with the majority of new age MMO's and make each individual player have their own loot?

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Each player does have their own loot, but at the end of a dungeon Linkshells will pass loot between each-other since the caliber of the drops are quite high. It'd be really crap to go in there and get heavy darklight body and let the person with only 50 WHM keep it. Usually there's a loot order unless it's a pickup run.

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Originally Posted by AdorraEloom

ARR will cater to both types of players, ones who seek grouping and ones who seek solo play, with plenty of content for both types of players. So everyone will find their "Style" of play in ARR.

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If they try to cater to everyone I don't think it will go very well. I read about their "Duty Finder", and while the concept is great, I would wait to see how dungeons/endgame content is going to be to decide if a Group Finder is a good thing or not.

If dungeons are too difficult then a Group Finder is going to be a hinderance and will probably not be used by most players.

If dungeons are too easy then the Group Finder will be used constantly and the content will get old fast.

Finding the right balance is IMO too difficult. Pick a side and stick with it.

Maybe they mean, they don't like being "forced" to party whenever they want to get something done. Not that they don't like parties at all.

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Originally Posted by Nix

Not entirely true again - Solo you have no safety net, you cannot make any mistakes but if you make a mistake as a party, you have other people there to help pick up the pieces.

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This is what I love about parties the most. Defend..Heal..Attack..Buff, It adds to the Dynamic feel of battle something huge. I will agree on leveling up doesn't have to require a person to be in a party to progress. but things like Boss missions,Dungeons,FATE etc. All those things I feel should be grouped in some way shape or form. I mean you can "try to solo" what is meant for grouping, but some things should be grouped, depending on what it is your doing.

As long as there is a balance between solo content and party content, you won't hear a complaint out of me.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Boss fights in off-line games ( at least in FF games) other people were with you killing a Boss. Why call it a boss if you do it by yourself? Be no different than killing a marmot -.-.

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I don't consider Bowser or Ganondorf a marmot. When you take control of a game, it is through the perspective of your character, meaning "anything" can happen depending on how the story is told. You can be the guy who can handle that big boss, and then sometimes you need people to overcome the obstacle, that is what makes a situation feel more real.

I don't want small tasks requiring a party, I only want parties in content that matters. I loved FFXI, but I do not miss at all waiting in Valkurm Dunes waiting hours for a party for something by standards today can be accomplished by solo'ing.

It really sounds like FFXIV should become FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Though we werent on the same server, im likely one of the people to not help you... but guess why? Its not to be mean, but because you quit the game and refuse to be sociable like the rest of the people here defending solo play over group. If you do not know people, and refuse to play with them because drama "might" happen, I will not help you, I do not repeat content I have already completed and likely spent a long time trying to figure the content out for anyone to come in and want carried. The fact that people have maby 2hrs a day means nothing to me, these people you feel should be basically forced to help might also have -2hrs to play, and you want them to spend 30min's of that time helping a complete stranger... who wants nothing to do with them.

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Sorry for misreading you as thinking you were elite. Upon re-reading you are just an unfriendly person who chastises people for not keeping up with him. Then berates those people for seeking to play in a party after you have already done it as being not worth your time. I guess that's not the same as being an elitist. My apologies.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

Sorry for misreading you as thinking you were elite. Upon re-reading you are just an unfriendly person who chastises people for not keeping up with him. Then berates those people for seeking to play in a party after you have already done it as being not worth your time. I guess that's not the same as being an elitist. My apologies.

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I wish I could like this more than once. <3

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Originally Posted by Nix

Each player does have their own loot, but at the end of a dungeon Linkshells will pass loot between each-other since the caliber of the drops are quite high. It'd be really crap to go in there and get heavy darklight body and let the person with only 50 WHM keep it. Usually there's a loot order unless it's a pickup run.

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Not quite what I ment. That is the current setup of loot in 1.0. I was more interested in a system kind of like this:

Your loot is YOURS. No one can see what you got. You can trade items around at will. Example: Darklight body drops to me, I dont want it, I'll give it to someone. Lets say it has a unique signature meaning it cant be sold on the trading post or put in someone's bazaar, it can only be traded freely.

Or perhaps another system such as Need and Greed. Maybe something like upon opening a chest each player is alloted 1 Need roll and 2 Greed Rolls. Lets say 5 items drop. I need this. I roll a Need of 75. Someone else needs it also. They roll a need of 76. I lose.

Or you could get rid of that system completely for dungeons. Ive always rather liked the Token system. Say for example you get 1 token per chest that you open at the end of Cutters Cry. If you get all 5 chests, thats 5 tokens. Now lets say that 1 piece of darklight gear at some random vendor somewhere costs 50-100 tokens. Lets say a minor piece like boots costs 50, and a major piece like body pieces cost 100. This creates a time sink needed by the developers, but also a sense of progression for the players. Even if that super rare darklight did not drop for you, you got some tokens to put aside towards the items you want. Win Win IMO.

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

Or perhaps another system such as Need and Greed. Maybe something like upon opening a chest each player is alloted 1 Need roll and 2 Greed Rolls. Lets say 5 items drop. I need this. I roll a Need of 75. Someone else needs it also. They roll a need of 76. I lose.

Or you could get rid of that system completely for dungeons. Ive always rather liked the Token system. Say for example you get 1 token per chest that you open at the end of Cutters Cry. If you get all 5 chests, thats 5 tokens. Now lets say that 1 piece of darklight gear at some random vendor somewhere costs 50-100 tokens. Lets say a minor piece like boots costs 50, and a major piece like body pieces cost 100. This creates a time sink needed by the developers, but also a sense of progression for the players. Even if that super rare darklight did not drop for you, you got some tokens to put aside towards the items you want. Win Win IMO.

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ARR loot system is supposed to work both ways as quoted. I think the only instances where everyone will get individualized loot will be in the FATEs. Dungeons and stuff I expect to be a shared loot pool for treasure chests.

This thread is a pure example of people too anxious.

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Originally Posted by Pwnagraphic

This thread is a pure example of people too anxious.

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^Then why are you here? :)

I noticed the thread while looking for any new info about ARR, just chillin, watching TV, why not discuss things?

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Originally Posted by Orophin

A Casual is usually someone that has little time to play, not someone unskilled at the game.

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Some, sure, usually, your dead wrong. Ive seen/known many people who play 2hrs or so a day and are easily better than someone who plays 12hrs a day. Ive been playing other MMO's again while the game has been down, there are far more idiots that barely play games who think they are good and do nothing but play the blame game when they screw up.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

The content lasted years because it took a minimum of three days to gather enough crap together to fight Kirin only for it to take you three years to totally gear every person's main job in your LS thanks to the RNG lottery. Don't confuse by-design time sink with great game design.

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All of the bold there... all your personal experience. I lead my own sky ls soon after it came out, we had atleast 40 members, it took at a max of 6months to clear the entire ls out, (we used a bidding system with a 3point minimum bid) our last haidate went for 3 points because not a single person needed it, our last w.legs/k.osode we sold. After sky, we moved to Sea, took a bit longer... but it was Sea.

You being inefficient/sucking and/or refusing to start your own LS and do a better job is your problem/fault, not game design.

The reason content lasted for years is because HNMLS's in general, atleast the big/good ones actually tried to gear every member, decking 1 character out takes almost no effort/time, years went into repeating the same content to gear out many many people. I was doing dynamis sense the day it was released til the day I quit, yet i stopped needing it after a few years of release, it wasnt for me I can promise you that.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

ARR loot system is supposed to work both ways as quoted. I think the only instances where everyone will get individualized loot will be in the FATEs. Dungeons and stuff I expect to be a shared loot pool for treasure chests.

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I havnt read/kept up with everything about ARR, what are FATEs??

The option to play solo should be there even in a MMO but from what I read here the problem isn't that this person wants to play solo because he or she don't like to party. It seems more to be a problem with this person ending up with people who care only about their progress and anyone "beneath" them is not worth their time. I don't know about you but I would also rather solo than play with people like that.

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

^Then why are you here? :)

I noticed the thread while looking for any new info about ARR, just chillin, watching TV, why not discuss things?

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I.. I don't know..

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Originally Posted by Lirion

The option to play solo should be there even in a MMO but from what I read here the problem isn't that this person wants to play solo because he or she don't like to party. It seems more to be a problem with this person ending up with people who care only about their progress and anyone "beneath" them is not worth their time. I don't know about you but I would also rather solo than play with people like that.

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Here Here!

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Originally Posted by Lirion

The option to play solo should be there even in a MMO but from what I read here the problem isn't that this person wants to play solo because he or she don't like to party. It seems more to be a problem with this person ending up with people who care only about their progress and anyone "beneath" them is not worth their time. I don't know about you but I would also rather solo than play with people like that.

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Everyone has had some bad experiences in these games, we all get invited to parties that have had elitists in them before. Getting butt hurt over it and asking the developers to make the game more solo is NOT the right way to handle it. Find a good LS/group of friends to do things with that you can trust and get along with. These are the basics of socializing. MMO's are not the place for anti-social people IMO.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

Sorry for misreading you as thinking you were elite. Upon re-reading you are just an unfriendly person who chastises people for not keeping up with him. Then berates those people for seeking to play in a party after you have already done it as being not worth your time. I guess that's not the same as being an elitist. My apologies.

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You are a person who wants nothing to do with me, then shouts asking for help, so when it involves what you need im supposed to jump. If you want to solo only, then do that.

I am a very blunt person when im pissed, I could care less if people move slower than me, ive joined random groups before full of people that just needed help, but those people I help are social, ive seen them asking for help before, I recognize their LS name, anything. I have always had problems with "patch hoppers" who only care about the storyline expecting help, the second your done helping them they log out and wait for the next patch. I help them, they dont help anyone back, thats you.

Your the friend who only calls to ask for money.

nvm. I read what she said. Continue.

I'm a habitual ninja inviter... If you party with me and I like you odds are you will be ninja invited. For what? It depends on what you might need done, or what I think would be fun, or because I get lonely... No one escapes the ninja invite... No one is above ninja invitation... The ninja will strike... the question is who will fall victim to the invite!

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

If they try to cater to everyone I don't think it will go very well. I read about their "Duty Finder", and while the concept is great, I would wait to see how dungeons/endgame content is going to be to decide if a Group Finder is a good thing or not.

If dungeons are too difficult then a Group Finder is going to be a hinderance and will probably not be used by most players.

If dungeons are too easy then the Group Finder will be used constantly and the content will get old fast.

Finding the right balance is IMO too difficult. Pick a side and stick with it.

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Not sure what the duty finder has to do with my point, but I'm simply saying that ARR will have something for players who like to group or like to play solo. And yest you can cater to both styles of play, most mmo's have solo content and group based content these days.

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

Everyone has had some bad experiences in these games, we all get invited to parties that have had elitists in them before. Getting butt hurt over it and asking the developers to make the game more solo is NOT the right way to handle it. Find a good LS/group of friends to do things with that you can trust and get along with. These are the basics of socializing. MMO's are not the place for anti-social people IMO.

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Easier said than done. I'm a very social person yet I seem to have terrible luck getting into a stable linkshell (one that doesnt disband and is active) or a linkshell that is interested in helping up its lower level members, mentors so to speak. i really hope to get involved much earlier in the lifespan of this game than other MMO's but usualy by the time i come to the party everyone already has their cliques. Just like real life, MMO's get into their comfort zone of people then arent always willing to seek out new people. I know i love to help out random strangers if I am able to help because i remember what it was like to be in their shoes.

Hmmm, humble pie must be an acquired taste...

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

The people I do content with, want something to do with me, they are social friends/LS members, the people you are trying to defend are the people saying they want to only solo ever, and complaining that people refuse to help them do things that are not solo. These people cannot get people to help them because they ignore these same people until they need help then throw them under the bus again.

Its like a friend that only calls you when they want to borrow money... exact same thing... you dump those "friends". Bad people are bad people.

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The thing is it isn't a friend its a stranger, someone thats wanting help to progress with certain content. You turned your back because they aren't in your clique and you dont directly benefit.
However if it was say someone in your ls who never bothered speaking unless they wanted something then i say your entitled to refuse help because they refuse to take part in the community theyve joined. Please dont tar all solo players with the same brush. People like to play the game in different ways and shouldnt be penalised for doing so. for e.g why force people into a party to level up when they can do it solo should they choose, it doesnt make them a bad player for taking the solo route.
I came to FFXIV relatively late in the day, and remained linkshellless for a while not because im antisocial but because i was too busy trying to solo stuff to 50, and experience the main storyline. The vast majority of people still playing were all at 50 on multiple jobs busy with Castrum Nova, then Rivenroad. When i started coming across stuff i needed help with id shout and through one of those shouts ended up in a lovely friendly linkshell that i went on to complete all group content with. Had no one answered that shout cos they'd all done the content and refused to go back there i still wouldnt have had a GC chocobo as id be stuck on the level 25 dungeon! Try helping a random one day you might end up with a valuable friend or ls member.

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Originally Posted by Endless

I'm a habitual ninja inviter... If you party with me and I like you odds are you will be ninja invited. For what? It depends on what you might need done, or what I think would be fun, or because I get lonely... No one escapes the ninja invite... No one is above ninja invitation... The ninja will strike... the question is who will fall victim to the invite!

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I hate ninja inviters. I get invited to a random group and I'm like "uhh...can I help you??". "we are gonna do xyz". "uhh...ok...GL with that." *leaves party*

If people ask me for help then invite me I'm fine with helping, but I hate the ninja invite. It just feels weird lol

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

Everyone has had some bad experiences in these games, we all get invited to parties that have had elitists in them before. Getting butt hurt over it and asking the developers to make the game more solo is NOT the right way to handle it. Find a good LS/group of friends to do things with that you can trust and get along with. These are the basics of socializing. MMO's are not the place for anti-social people IMO.

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No one is asking devs to make MMOs more solo oriented, but asking devs to put in stuff that you can also solo besides the group stuff is really nothing to get upset about. If anything it would bring more people to the game who then would get to know more people to do more stuff with.

Having stuff to do for everyone, group or solo is much better than only forcing people to do things that require a group. Say you log in one morning and few people are online, should you turn it off and return later just because there's nothing to do besides crafting? Or would you rather go do some quests that you can do alone until more people get online? Does that make you an anti-social person?

Having solo content in a MMO does not mean it will become a single player game. This topic have been talked about a lot on these forums.

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

Everyone has had some bad experiences in these games, we all get invited to parties that have had elitists in them before. Getting butt hurt over it and asking the developers to make the game more solo is NOT the right way to handle it. Find a good LS/group of friends to do things with that you can trust and get along with. These are the basics of socializing. MMO's are not the place for anti-social people IMO.

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Too bad. I'm gonna keep playing. :P
Me being anti-social means you wont have to see me or any other of those icky anti-social soloers!
Also I'm not anti-social in MMOs(purely) because of elitists. I am because I get *HARASSED*.

Can people stop trying to turn games into "HARDCORE ONLYZ" or "PARTY ONLY" type deals? SE is including both solo and party because both are welcome.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

Easier said than done. I'm a very social person yet I seem to have terrible luck getting into a stable linkshell (one that doesnt disband and is active) or a linkshell that is interested in helping up its lower level members, mentors so to speak. i really hope to get involved much earlier in the lifespan of this game than other MMO's but usualy by the time i come to the party everyone already has their cliques. Just like real life, MMO's get into their comfort zone of people then arent always willing to seek out new people. I know i love to help out random strangers if I am able to help because i remember what it was like to be in their shoes.

Hmmm, humble pie must be an acquired taste...

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Bring back the mentor scheme that was present in FFXI, that was great, veteran players helping new players with anything from gear advice to running dungeons

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Originally Posted by AdorraEloom

Not sure what the duty finder has to do with my point, but I'm simply saying that ARR will have something for players who like to group or like to play solo. And yest you can cater to both styles of play, most mmo's have solo content and group based content these days.

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This has been said by the devs and community a thousand times, but people want to beat the dead horse that is Solo vs party play. There is no gray area even when it comes straight from the developers mouth that there is plenty of black, white, and gray for everyone..

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Originally Posted by Lirion

No one is asking devs to make MMOs more solo oriented, but asking devs to put in stuff that you can also solo besides the group stuff is really nothing to get upset about. If anything it would bring more people to the game who then would get to know more people to do more stuff with.

Having stuff to do for everyone, group or solo is much better than only forcing people to do things that require a group. Say you log in one morning and few people are online, should you turn it off and return later just because there's nothing to do besides crafting? Or would you rather go do some quests that you can do alone until more people get online? Does that make you an anti-social person?

Having solo content in a MMO does not mean it will become a single player game. This topic have been talked about a lot on these forums.

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Having solo content is fine. Sometimes I want to just be left alone and play the game. Its when they make it TOO solo that it becomes a problem, which is what some people want (weather they are admitting it or not).

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

Having solo content is fine. Sometimes I want to just be left alone and play the game. Its when they make it TOO solo that it becomes a problem, which is what some people want (weather they are admitting it or not).

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Define TOO solo?

One time in FFXI I ninja invited a full alliance to get RR in abby for someone I did papers with that didn't have it... 3 hrs later we got MM RR and all the main bosses. It was my greatest ninja invite of FFXI history.

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Originally Posted by AdorraEloom

Not sure what the duty finder has to do with my point, but I'm simply saying that ARR will have something for players who like to group or like to play solo. And yest you can cater to both styles of play, most mmo's have solo content and group based content these days.

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*edited for wrong quote*

I think you are taking this discussion too literally. Or seeing it as Black and White. There should always be solo content, but it shouldnt be the main factor of the game. The game should promote party play, but also include solo play. What some people are wanting (weather they have said it in this thread of not, they do want it) is the ability to solo almost anything and everything. Which should definetly not be allowed.

IMO the main story line should be mostly solo play. But also have the option of party play on the same content.

For Example: FFXI Devin Might. You could do the quest as just a simple group of 6 to get the mission done. Or you could take it to the extreme with a full alliance and great rewards. Challenging for those of us that want the challenge, easy for those that just want to do it for fun/completion.

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

I hate ninja inviters. I get invited to a random group and I'm like "uhh...can I help you??". "we are gonna do xyz". "uhh...ok...GL with that." *leaves party*

If people ask me for help then invite me I'm fine with helping, but I hate the ninja invite. It just feels weird lol

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I don't ever ninja invite for help, I usually ninja invite to help.