Seems like alot of people want this game to become Free 2 Play. >.>

Actually ... no. It seems a lot of people do not want it to be F2P.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Are you retarded?

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No, actually, and in addition to that I obviously have more knowledge on the subject than you.

In pay to play games you are constantly dropping money on such things as:

Unlocking classes, exp potions, health potions, mp potions, content passes, character slots, good gear, inventory space, mounts, cosmetic items, and many other items that may or many not give you an edge over the other players.

Long story short, in so called "free" to play games you end up paying more unless you are the most casual of casual players, and that's why many people facetiously dub "Free to play," "Pay to win."

I realize that you are probably under 18 and it's hard for you to get your mom to cough up the $10.00 a month to pay for your bad habit, so I suggest collecting pop cans and maybe cutting your neighbors lawn. $10.00 really isn't hard to come up with once every 4 weeks lazy bones.

yeah... pay to win- err free to play has never been good in my book. I'd stick around for about a min to see how 14 did it, but if its anything like what i've seen before, I'd drop this game quick.

We'd go from paying $10 a month to $50 so you can buy +500% xp items, increase droprate items, gaudy-crap vanity pets and items, $5.99 for 7/7 weps on each primal, but if you get the super-saver-awesome discount its only $18 for all three!! /endrant... its no good mein.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

If you play a lot of F2P MMOs you'll learn very quickly that in order to get ahead you will have to spend a lot of money on it -- This is the common theme of F2P, some deviate but it's silly to ignore this is actually true.

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Yes, because all black people steal things and all Muslims are terrorists.

And I have played a lot of F2P MMOs, there are a few bad eggs that are Pay to win, and they get a subsequently bad reputation because of it.

Generalizing isn't a healthy way to view the industry.

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

I know exactly what you mean about GW2, and I also have not been able to put to words why XIV is the better game. Thre's just something about this world, its attention to detail, that GW2 lacks entirely. It almost feels like XIV is presenting a face, an aesthetic,that truly gives you a feeling of being an adventurer in this world, whereas what GW2 presents is really just smoke and mirrors. Play for long enouh and you start seeing the seams.

I wish I could make people understand what I mean.

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I know what you mean. With FFXIV: ARR it's like "A whole new world of adventure!"

GW2 is like... "We made another one!!!"

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Originally Posted by Mijin

No, actually, and in addition to that I obviously have more knowledge on the subject than you.

In pay to play games you are constantly dropping money on such things as:

Unlocking classes, exp potions, health potions, mp potions, content passes, character slots, good gear, inventory space, mounts, cosmetic items, and many other items that may or many not give you an edge over the other players.

Long story short, in so called "free" to play games you end up paying more unless you are the most casual of casual players, and that's why many people facetiously dub "Free to play," "Pay to win."

I realize that you are probably under 18 and it's hard for you to get your mom to cough up the $10.00 a month to pay for your bad habit, so I suggest collecting pop cans and maybe cutting your neighbors lawn. $10.00 really isn't hard to come up with once every 4 weeks lazy bones.

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"Anyone who doesn't like paying money monthly, can't afford it"

Fallacy ahoy!

I'm just clearly better at managing my finances than you. (see how that works)

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

"Anyone who doesn't like paying money monthly, can't afford it"

Fallacy ahoy!

I'm just clearly better at managing my finances than you. (see how that works)

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Oh, I was also going off the fact that you're going around here calling people "retards." It wasn't only the financial evidence. And no, in lieu of the fact that free to play games are just a marketing scheme invented by games with low subscribers to get them to actually pay more, I don't see how anything you've said could suggest you're better at managing your finances than me. :P

I'd rather keep the subscription. As nice as free to play is, I don't want the only barrier between me and good gear to be the size of my wallet.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Oh, I was also going off the fact that you're going around here calling people "retards." It wasn't only the financial evidence. And no, in lieu of the fact that free to play games are just a marketing scheme invented by games with low subscribers to get them to actually pay more, I don't see how anything you've said could suggest you're better at managing your finances than me. :P

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I called you a retard, because you used the generalization that all free to play games are pay to win.

This shows a general lack of understanding in the field and general ignorance.

And yeah, GW2 really has low subs.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I called you a retard, because you used the generalization that all free to play games are pay to win.

This shows a general lack of understanding in the field and general ignorance.

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You're the only one who looks ignorant here, and that's why almost everyone disagrees with you. To anyone with common sense it's obvious that you end up paying more for "free to play" games. Regardless, it's a moot point. It's already been stated in an interview that they won't be using this cheap marketing scheme.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

And yeah, GW2 really has low subs.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Oh, I was also going off the fact that you're going around here calling people "retards." It wasn't only the financial evidence. And no, in lieu of the fact that free to play games are just a marketing scheme invented by games with low subscribers to get them to actually pay more, I don't see how anything you've said could suggest you're better at managing your finances than me. :P

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Reading comprehension ftw. Also, please remove your giant signature that takes up like half of the thread, thank you.

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Originally Posted by Keisuna

I'd rather keep the subscription. As nice as free to play is, I don't want the only barrier between me and good gear to be the size of my wallet.

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Words of wisdom indeed. I can't tell you how many times in various F2P games that I tried out where the team has to ask someone to leave because they couldn't enter our dungeon destination. Instead of getting a full subscription or purchasing the popular dungeon unlocks, they went and bought whatever that month's novelty clothing, pet, worthless title or emote.

Planetside 2 and Guild Wars 2 (to some degree), are two reasons why F2P is the future. You're kidding yourselves if you think Pay to Play has a future when it's quite clear triple A games can exist without an on-going cost and still pull in a massive amount of cash and subs.

Cosmetic items through cash shops is how these games will make the money, just because you don't like it or think it's Pay To Win isn't going to stop business's from going ahead and doing it anyway.

Are you saying that you would not play a seriously polished and excellent F2P game, just because someone could spend a couple of pounds on a cosmetic item? As for comments akin too "In the end you WILL spend more", this is true IF YOU ARE PREPARED TOO. No one is saying you have to buy anything.

I despise Pay to Win, i've embraced Free to Play, it IS the future. Suck it up.

it's simple really. if you want F2P then sod off and play Aion or some other second rate pile of bilge. I am more than happy to pay to pathetically small fee that SE charge. In-fact if SE were to charge double for 2.0 i would still pay it.

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Originally Posted by Kurai

it's simple really. if you want F2P then sod off and play Aion or some other second rate pile of bilge. I am more than happy to pay to pathetically small fee that SE charge. In-fact if SE were to charge double for 2.0 i would still pay it.

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I suggest you take a look at Planetside 2. You need to let go of the past and what you 'think' you know about F2P.

You can't tell me that just because FFXIV is a subs based game it is better than some F2P options, can you?

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Originally Posted by A5ko

You can't tell me that just because FFXIV is a subs based game it is better than some F2P options, can you?

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I feel like that's exactly what he was telling you, and if he wasn't I will. You may be correct that F2P games will increase in the future, but the Final Fantasy XI, and Final Fantasy XIV player base don't really target that demographic.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

I feel like that's exactly what he was telling you, and if he wasn't I will.

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Then with the greatest respect, you are an idiot and responsible for holding back talented game developers with your narrow-mindedness. Whether you agree or not, F2P is how it is going to be in the future for most new MMO's. If you refuse to see anything more than Pay to Win in a F2P title, then you are going to be losing out on some excellent games.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

I honestly don't think the people complaining about free to play know anything about it... let alone ever tried it. When people make such grand generalizations like "F2P always means bad graphics" and "all F2P becomes Play 2 Win" you know these people are talking thru their back sides.

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Of course I have never played STO, I have never seen their 20 euro ships, which are the best, oh and new ones are being released all the time, the only way that would be cheaper than FFXIV would mean releasing new ships no more often than every 3 months. Then lets no forget the lock boxes, keys for STO cost about 10 euros for 10, you can need over 100 to get the exclusive items from them if you are unlucky.

Large exp boost almost 9 euros

Lets not forget the fact we have 2 characters one FED one klingon, and the ships can only be used with their respective faction, so a new klingon and FED escourt comes out, that's about 40 euros straight up, then 2 months later 2 more come, better thats another 40 euros 80 euros in 2 months is really cheaper than FFXIV.

You pay more to be effective at F2P games than subscription there's the proof.

Here is the link to the c-store for STO for you to ponder on. http://sto.perfectworld.com/cstore

And the prices for perfect world Zen:

€45.00 5,000 + 300
€27.00 3,000
€18.00 2,000
€9.00 1,000
€4.50 500

(They only do Zen in USD and EUR thats why I haven't used GBP)

The Word "Free" is a powerful word... Just sayin' Which is why I hate it :p.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

You're the only one who looks ignorant here, and that's why almost everyone disagrees with you. To anyone with common sense it's obvious that you end up paying more for "free to play" games. Regardless, it's a moot point. It's already been stated in an interview that they won't be using this cheap marketing scheme.






Reading comprehension ftw. Also, please remove your giant signature that takes up like half of the thread, thank you.

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Give me an example of a pay to win item in GW2.

I'll link you to the gem store here: link

And actually the free to play model was pioneered a long time ago, not by a game with low subs.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Of course I have never played STO, I have never seen their 20 euro ships, which are the best, oh and new ones are being released all the time, the only way that would be cheaper than FFXIV would mean releasing new ships no more often than every 3 months. Then lets no forget the lock boxes, keys for STO cost about 10 euros for 10, you can need over 100 to get the exclusive items from them if you are unlucky.

Large exp boost almost 9 euros

Lets not forget the fact we have 2 characters one FED one klingon, and the ships can only be used with their respective faction, so a new klingon and FED escourt comes out, that's about 40 euros straight up, then 2 months later 2 more come, better thats another 40 euros 80 euros in 2 months is really cheaper than FFXIV.

You pay more to be effective at F2P games than subscription there's the proof.

Here is the link to the c-store for STO for you to ponder on. http://sto.perfectworld.com/cstore

And the prices for perfect world Zen:

€45.00 5,000 + 300
€27.00 3,000
€18.00 2,000
€9.00 1,000
€4.50 500

(They only do Zen in USD and EUR thats why I haven't used GBP)

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So... Because one free to play game has pay to win features, all free games have pay to win features? Generalizing isn't a good thing to do.

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Originally Posted by A5ko

Then with the greatest respect, you are an idiot and responsible for holding back talented game developers with your narrow-mindedness. Whether you agree or not, F2P is how it is going to be in the future for most new MMO's. If you refuse to see anything more than Pay to Win in a F2P title, then you are going to be losing out on some excellent games.

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I'll be loosing out on what exactly? Games like Aion, Age of Conan, DDO, Gw2, and a fps mmo that doesn't even seem remotely interesting to me?

I'm a career FFXIV player, I have no interest in other games. I played FFXI for 7 years and I intend to play XIV even longer. Just because you have the opinion that you like free to play games, doesn't give you the right to call me an idiot. I would like to point something out to you, World of Warcraft, ever heard of it? That's right, the leader of the industry in MMO's isn't a free to play game, so all of these titles you're throwing out there to support your own opinion seem just like a desperate attempt at trying to win a loosing argument.

People who support the pay to play format aren't holding back anyone, that was an ignorant statement considering that the game's director himself stated in an interview that he didn't feel that free to play was the direction he wanted for FFXIV.

Please don't post anymore.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

So... Because one free to play game has pay to win features, all free games have pay to win features? Generalizing isn't a good thing to do.

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Sadly this seems to be the #1 problem with posters on these boards.

I'm sure the many F2P games raking in money and active players are not concerned with such a small fish like FFXIV as it stands now. If the only way for FFXIV 2.0 to survive is go free to play, I find it very hard to believe that the mass population would just up and leave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

So... Because one free to play game has pay to win features, all free games have pay to win features? Generalizing isn't a good thing to do.

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Its the most profitable way to make money "Here buy this sexy subligar for your vanity slot!!!" um.. yeah I'll pass, or "Here buy this awesome ship with nanoprobe technology which will decimate Borg cubes!!!!" which has more appeal to you? Its business and in business you want things that will sell.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Its the most profitable way to make money "Here buy this sexy subligar for your vanity slot!!!" um.. yeah I'll pass, or "Here buy this awesome ship with nanoprobe technology which will decimate Borg cubes!!!!" which has more appeal to you? Its business and in business you want things that will sell.

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Well actually, the most profitable way is to create a trusting relationship between developer and consumer.

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Originally Posted by A5ko

Sadly this seems to be the #1 problem with posters on these boards.

I'm sure the many F2P games raking in money and active players are not concerned with such a small fish like FFXIV as it stands now. If the only way for FFXIV 2.0 to survive is go free to play, I find it very hard to believe that the mass population would just up and leave.

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If I had to buy a relic just to be effective or buy the best armour yes I would. There is no money in vanity items unless they look like they are worth it, the real money is in pay to win.

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Originally Posted by A5ko

Sadly this seems to be the #1 problem with posters on these boards.

I'm sure the many F2P games raking in money and active players are not concerned with such a small fish like FFXIV as it stands now. If the only way for FFXIV 2.0 to survive is go free to play, I find it very hard to believe that the mass population would just up and leave.

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Yup. Yoshida even said that he would consider a different subscription model if the time came for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delsus

If I had to buy a relic just to be effective or buy the best armour yes I would. There is no money in vanity items unless they look like they are worth it, the real money is in pay to win.

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Team Fortress 2 disagrees with you.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Give me an example of a pay to win item in GW2.

I'll link you to the gem store here: link

And actually the free to play model was pioneered a long time ago, not by a game with low subs.

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All the items listed under "Boosts" for example... Quite a lot of them are actually, i'd say more than half the items on that page you linked to represent to pay to win problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Of course I have never played STO, I have never seen their 20 euro ships, which are the best, oh and new ones are being released all the time, the only way that would be cheaper than FFXIV would mean releasing new ships no more often than every 3 months. Then lets no forget the lock boxes, keys for STO cost about 10 euros for 10, you can need over 100 to get the exclusive items from them if you are unlucky.

Large exp boost almost 9 euros

Lets not forget the fact we have 2 characters one FED one klingon, and the ships can only be used with their respective faction, so a new klingon and FED escourt comes out, that's about 40 euros straight up, then 2 months later 2 more come, better thats another 40 euros 80 euros in 2 months is really cheaper than FFXIV.

You pay more to be effective at F2P games than subscription there's the proof.

Here is the link to the c-store for STO for you to ponder on. http://sto.perfectworld.com/cstore

And the prices for perfect world Zen:

€45.00 5,000 + 300
€27.00 3,000
€18.00 2,000
€9.00 1,000
€4.50 500

(They only do Zen in USD and EUR thats why I haven't used GBP)

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Or you can join a fleet, and if your fleet shipyard level is high enough you can buy fleet ships. Oh, and you can farm dilithium crystals and sell them for Zen. So you don't have to pay a dime to earn any Zen. Oh snap I just saved you a lot of cash!

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Originally Posted by Mijin

All the items listed under "Boosts" for example... Quite a lot of them are actually, i'd say more than half the items on that page you linked to represent to pay to win problem.

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So... Items that effect literally nothing in PVP (they don't work) are pay to win? What exactly is your definition of pay to win? You gain very little, and can also obtain them in game on a daily basis (with daily rewards)

The bonuses offer less than some of the crafted food that you can make.

Next?

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Originally Posted by A5ko

I suggest you take a look at Planetside 2. You need to let go of the past and what you 'think' you know about F2P.

You can't tell me that just because FFXIV is a subs based game it is better than some F2P options, can you?

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your argument my dear friend make no sense. I quote "Planetside 2 is free to play open world persistent MMOFPS "

thats MMOFPS not MMORPG wrong genre dude, I hate FPS games.

General rule of thumb for all MMOs ( P2P, B2P, F2P): If the game is good enough for the Monthly Fee/Cost of Items for F2P/ And the game itself. The game will get a good population. The only Gripe I have is a lot of people want things for "Free" in General, If you get something for free thats a really good item, then your one lucky person to get your name drawn out of a hat for a Raffle :P.

But I still rather do P2P then F2P.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

I'm a career FFXIV player, I have no interest in other games.

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I see, so if FFXIV goes free to play you will be jumping ship? I think not, it sounds very hipster.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

I would like to point something out to you, World of Warcraft, ever heard of it? That's right, the leader of the industry in MMO's isn't a free to play game, so all of these titles you're throwing out there to support your own opinion seem just like a desperate attempt at trying to win a loosing argument.

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Haha this one made me laugh ^

There are a few reasons why WoW is Pay to Play and that's because of its age, its polish and the fact it allowed millions of people to play it with a massive variety of different systems when it first started. It really kick started just how serious MMO's could be for generating cash, it was the first to really make a stamp on the world. It doesn't need to adopt F2P because it generates enough to sustain itself 3 times over.

Are you seriously suggesting FFXIV is on par with that kind of subscription base? I hate to break it to you, they don't do a mass overhaul of successful games because they felt like it. If 2.0 fails to bring in the players, then it will have to be F2P or shut off. FFXI didn't have this trouble because it had way more subscribers.

I know it's not technically "free to play" but the only reason I got Guild Wars 2 is because I don't have to pay a sub. I had little to no interest in it with 2.0 coming soon, but I decided to pick it up after hearing so many positive things, and I'm really glad I did. I feel like I wasted so much money subbing to SWTOR and TERA only to play them very rarely. I still have a sub going for TERA and I think I've logged in twice in the past couple of months.

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Originally Posted by Kurai

your argument my dear friend make no sense. I quote "Planetside 2 is free to play open world persistent MMOFPS " thats MMOFPS not MMORPG wrong genre dude, I hate FPS games.

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I fail to see how genre makes a difference when pointing out just how good F2P games can be. I was merely stating that F2P are now triple A titles. This seems to upset folk who truly believe every free game is exactly the same. Funny how the latest 'big sub based MMOs' have all but fallen to dust or F2P.

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Originally Posted by A5ko

Haha this one made me laugh ^

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I'm glad you're graceful enough to laugh when being proven wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by A5ko

Planetside 2 and Guild Wars 2 (to some degree), are two reasons why F2P is the future. You're kidding yourselves if you think Pay to Play has a future when it's quite clear triple A games can exist without an on-going cost and still pull in a massive amount of cash and subs.

Cosmetic items through cash shops is how these games will make the money, just because you don't like it or think it's Pay To Win isn't going to stop business's from going ahead and doing it anyway.

Are you saying that you would not play a seriously polished and excellent F2P game, just because someone could spend a couple of pounds on a cosmetic item? As for comments akin too "In the end you WILL spend more", this is true IF YOU ARE PREPARED TOO. No one is saying you have to buy anything.

I despise Pay to Win, i've embraced Free to Play, it IS the future. Suck it up.

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I don't think it's an issue of what is or isn't "The Future", it's an issue of what does or doesn't fit with the game mechanics. In order to profit enough from the game to keep it running, there needs to be enough incentive to buy the in game content that's for sale. That means making the paid content either more enjoyable or more helpful than the rest of the content, leaving those who can't afford much of the content with a less-enjoyable experience than someone whose only advantage is having more expendable capital. I don't think that's what the designers who made FFXIV had in mind when they made this game, especially seeing how much of the harder challenges rely a lot on teamwork.

I'm not saying F2P models can't be done right given a game where it fits with the game mechanics, I'm just saying that it's not the end-all-be-all of MMO payment methods, and I don't see it becoming so in the future.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

General rule of thumb for all MMOs ( P2P, B2P, F2P): If the game is good enough for the Monthly Fee/Cost of Items for F2P/ And the game itself. The game will get a good population.

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Oh really? All p2p MMO's succeed right.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Oh really? All p2p MMO's succeed right.

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I never said that now did I? and I said "All" MMOs, I didn't "Generalize" like that's the word of the day or something :p.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Or you can join a fleet, and if your fleet shipyard level is high enough you can buy fleet ships. Oh, and you can farm dilithium crystals and sell them for Zen. So you don't have to pay a dime to earn any Zen. Oh snap I just saved you a lot of cash!

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And added a lot of time 2,500 Zen will cost over over 200,000 Dilithium (possibly closer to the 1mil mark) this will take ages to farm though mining, STF, daily events etc. So its devote all your time to the game or spend the £20 per ship, the dilithium exchange is designed as a top up not to replace buying Zen.