Why do casual players seem entitled to cosmetic items added in game?

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

And then you have to build the submarines and it takes a couple of years for them to start making decent gil.

That said, crafting really is an easy way to make gil. I've never used a macro, and I never make current level gear. Just spend 10 minutes looking at what is selling on the MB for a decent price.

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Minor correction, it takes a little over 4 months.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Then please, 'especially' if your ultimate raiders, just back casuals up even if they are asking for easier savage, or stay out of the discussion. Please. That means changing human nature which isn't going to happen. But, yeah we are not going to stay quiet if ultimate raiders can't either.

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There are raiders backing you up even in these very threads. Heck most raiders are completely fine and decent people who just want to have fun be it casual or harder content.
General consens IS that DT is absolutely lacking in content that is not raiding.
Raiders say it, content creators say it but lets be honest it doesn't matter if you are backed up because the devs just do what they want anyway. I would bet money that they will not change anything for the next chaotic raid like it was with criterion which had also complaints about difficulty.

There will be no easier savage and frankly there shouldn't be because its savage after all.
There should however be other battle content that is what you ask for and that was supposed to be chaotic before they butchered it.

The problem is not backing up or opinions being given here... it's that the devs wont listen anyway to them or implement changes so slowly you will only see them an expansion later at the earliest.
We are all playing Don Quijote here.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

I'm of the opinion it can be both player vs company and player vs player. Unless we're all suddenly under the delusional that hardcore players never use the term "filthy casual" unironically and casual players never think hardcore players are trying to make the entire game "harder" and more "worth their time." (The validity of the facts in either pov in this instance is irrelevant), both forms of "us vs them" are very real

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I'd agree with that, but equally the decisions SE makes in terms of the content release schedule and the fiasco over this particular piece of content is guaranteed to exacerbate player-vs-player tension.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Minor correction, it takes a little over 4 months.

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Thx. Apparently our workshop guru isn't min-maxing efficiently.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Thx. Apparently our workshop guru isn't min-maxing efficiently.

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Yeah if it's taken them years they've been on the sauce for at least 75% of it. Getting them all to max level does take years but they'll be bringing in plenty of jewellery before that. Not even sure there's a measurable difference in amounts once you get past level ~79, but the extra speed helps.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Then please, 'especially' if your ultimate raiders, just back casuals up even if they are asking for easier savage, or stay out of the discussion. Please. That means changing human nature which isn't going to happen. But, yeah we are not going to stay quiet if ultimate raiders can't either.
Did me personally you could just ask them to stagger savage MUCH further away from normal content so we can get prepared. (No I dint care about crafters I'm afraid, given them the best glams in the game to craft or something. Add a husbandry crafter, and snow them to craft mounts.)
I want to raid. I dint want to craft. I played the game every day for four years. Bought 2 houses. I dint RP it buy mounts and stuff and I still could afford crafted gear. I played a game I enjoyed every day for four years. Dont tell me I'm playing it wrong, and needed to suffer it for four years, if I dint have enough Gil to raid.

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People aren't going to advocate for this. Nobody should be advocating for that, not even you. We should be persistently advocating for a step up in intermediate content to help people transition. We should be asking for improvements to Novice Network to further teach personal responsibility in a group setting. We should be advocating for content to be developed and released in tandem with difficult content. I can confidently say that after 7.4 the poles will shift entirely. Raiders will then be eating breadcrumbs once again until 8.05 when the next savage encounter is released. It is in no way shape or form a good way to structure and organize content.

Even then, even if raiders end up backing you it changes nothing, because this isn't a case of who they are listening to. It's a case of they are either listening to nobody, or a select few and doing what they want anyway, or they are listening but are having fatal misconceptions about the feedback, leading to fairly bad introductions.

Some of the rest of this is a bit muddled but as I understand it..

There is no right or wrong way to play the game or make Gil for that matter. Look at the past in the game to see what'll happen in future. SE are very predictable like this.. If you hate crafting and hate Exploratory even, then you can still make Gil through combat, go farm materia, don't unload it on the market instantly, understand that with each patch of crafted gear for battle you need materia, sell the materia, heck you can buy it cheap and then merchant it.

Understand what people need and when they need it.. Even crafters, prior to patch, go fill yourself with a nice stack of Heliometry tomestones, 7.2 drops, and you suddenly have a highly valued currency. Use it to sell those items, or use those tomes as bartering, people do "Your tomes, my mats -> Your gear" all the time on party finder, and it's very lucrative for crafters to do that.. They make some Gil, they spend absolutely nothing on Tomes, and you get a significant discount.

Heck, you can do this on patch day and include hunts in the process.. Sell your items, then go do hunt trains for a few cycles, and suddenly before you know it by the late afternoon / early evening you will have easily capped your tomes a couple of times and will easily have been 2-8M Gil for only an evening amount of work, and no it isn't hyperbole like the "Go make millions an hour" comment by doing Bunnies in Pagos/Pyros/Hydatos (They are lucrative, but not that lucrative), or you then have more to barter with people.

It isn't that you're playing the game wrong, but you're playing it in a very restrictive manner.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

I'm of the opinion it can be both player vs company and player vs player. Unless we're all suddenly under the delusional that hardcore players never use the term "filthy casual" unironically and casual players never think hardcore players are trying to make the entire game "harder" and more "worth their time." (The validity of the facts in either pov in this instance is irrelevant), both forms of "us vs them" are very real

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The root cause of the issue is player versus company. The attacking itself is of player versus player, that much is true, but it isn't the actual issue, and nor is it the cause, honestly. It's just a symptom of the issue of company not listening to players, or doing an exceptionally poor job at it for that matter. Treating the actual issues as player versus player is just not addressing anything, and just adding needless rhetoric. Like, you can call it a player versus player issue to the extent we're just attacking each other, but ultimately all of the issues are stemming from SE and decisions they themselves have made

Granted we shouldn't be attacking anyway, but as I've been misunderstood a few times today, of probably my own making, I should clarify that by player versus player I am referring to where the issue as as of a direct result of the player, e.g., some people are blaming casuals for some content being easier or for modern job decisions, just as some casuals may blame hardcore folk for the incessant focus, or when more difficult changes are made, when in reality it is just the devs not doing a very good job of understanding a lot of the feedback.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Yeah if it's taken them years they've been on the sauce for at least 75% of it. Getting them all to max level does take years but they'll be bringing in plenty of jewellery before that. Not even sure there's a measurable difference in amounts once you get past level ~79, but the extra speed helps.

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Appreciate the info.

The playerbase yearns for Eureka III

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

The playerbase yearns for Eureka III

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Honestly, I very much am. I loved Eureka in SB, it was some of the best time I have had in this game. I enjoy getting on a Fate train and just relaxing, killing fates. I LOVED BA and it wasn't that hard either and easily can be done with one person doing callouts in voice. The only hard part in BA is that it punished you pretty harshly for dying but usually, that wouldn't lead to raid-wide wipes as we see in this new 24-man fight. Borza was fun as well. Tho I never did the savage version of its dun, it still looked fun and long the same line if d.level as BA. Overall I very much yearning for a new Eureka/Borza area to play right now.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I'd agree with that, but equally the decisions SE makes in terms of the content release schedule and the fiasco over this particular piece of content is guaranteed to exacerbate player-vs-player tension.

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Oh, for sure. All around, everyone's guilty.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

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Pretending every instance of "player versus player" conflict is a response of player vs company is delusional. A vast majority? sure. The overall community however is far from perfect.

Did they ever mentioned about the content being unsync-able in the future or is this forever locked to lv100?

Oh brother, I can't believe there actually was someone in this thread saying that using in game macros to craft is cheating.

Good grief.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

...
We are all playing Don Quijote here.

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Does that use a sub model or F2P? (I've got no time for Gatcha and fomo)
;-)

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Originally Posted by IOwn92FCHouses

No the success of the game rests entirely on people like me that supported the game back in the 1.x days. That offered feedback, support, and loyalty to show that a rebuild would be successful.

All you casuals do is get carried by me through your normal content. I can personally guatentee that I've put more money into this game than you have.

Have a seat. I'm the target audience at the moment. I'll help you not take 30 minutes to clear the latest dungeon right after I clear the latest savage-level content Square has released for me.

See? Pretty easy to sound like a cringy badass, huh? But something tells me you weren't pretending or using hyperbole. That you actually believe the us vs them is player vs player and not player vs company.

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With Complete and intentional Disrespect.

The point in which people have to continually care that you are here before the fall.

Is already past.

I know full well other 1.0 users do not care that much to name drop it.

and those users simply put would rather it not be tarnished or used to put down others.
you make them all look bad.

Just like every past item should return without Replica being attached to it. [Examples: White Ravens]

[People won't see the replica anyways if things get turned into sets like outfits for jewelry and etc.]

You clearly do not represent A Majority, let alone the entire minority you're name dropping in.

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Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin

Scaling doesn't really fix the body checks. All the stuff you listed I believe has very few mechs that are body checks. This fight has one that I heard about that is pretty major and it's the towers in P2. They would also have to lower the number of players required for the checks along with scaling Cloud of darkness hp.

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The Dalriada has a few towers, missing them doesn't wipe you if you're undersized because of the Echo boost you get.
And speaking of body checks, has anyone actually tried doing this undersized yet?

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

ok at the past in the game to see what'll happen in future. SE are very predictable like this.. If you hate crafting and hate Exploratory even, then you can still make Gil through combat, go farm materia, don't unload it on the market instantly, understand that with each patch of crafted gear for battle you need materia, sell the materia, heck you can buy it cheap and then merchant it.

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What? I don't understand this? You can't even build extract enough Materia for your own needs? Let alone have enough to sell for a set of crafted in time for raid.
Besides, I've no idea how much materia is needed to penta meld. Its random. Its impossible to work out including margins for 'sample' size with all the percentages. So you just have to save it until after your done with it. So thats not an option for gil to prep for raid, until after I'm raid ready myself. I don't understand gearing, but I know there is more than one set per expansion so thats 2 x 10 x how many sets? 5 x how many x how many sets? (nah just got to save it.) Selling materia for gil (- commision) and then buying it back including commission, is just going to be a loss. If I'm bad at economics and trading, I don't much care, and kowing Im bad isn't goign to suddenly make me better.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Understand what people need and when they need it..

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I've got no talent for that. No idea how to find out. No interest in finding out. Politics and economics and sociology, and reasearcing redit 'into a game' on the internet doesn't interest me. Spreadsheets bore me. And I don't enjoy squeezing profit. If I see someone flogging NPC gear for sprouts above the NPC price, I just go buy something to undercut it.
I have a system for selling stuff on the MB *quickly*. I check my retainers when I remember and am waiting to queue. 2/3 times a week. (sometimes I do inventory management, sometimes retainers, sometimes gold saucer for mini cactpot and and to sell my cards. Never all of them everyday. Thank god our inventories arent bigger. Just a shame they are full of so many psuedo currencies. I just have to throw most of the untradeable stuff away, no idea whats its for. Mostly when I used to look it up it buys old gear. If I don't know what it is and when I got it or where to use it or on what, it gets discarded. The item hint descriptions seem to have no purpose.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Even crafters, prior to patch, go fill yourself with a nice stack of Heliometry tomestones, 7.2 drops, and you suddenly have a highly valued currency. Use it to sell those items,

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What?!! I only get 450 a week. It takes me two weeks just to buy one chest piece?
I was capping out every week I could once I finished MSQ, unsubbed for about six weeks only, then capped every week, and I only just finished getting my main job to 720 about two weeks ago??!!
How am i supposed to have helios to spare?
Besides I don't think this currency was even out until savage already hit.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

or use those tomes as bartering, people do "Your tomes, my mats -> Your gear"

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???? You cant trade tome gear? What mats?

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

all the time on party finder, and it's very lucrative for crafters to do that.. They make some Gil, they spend absolutely nothing on Tomes, and you get a significant discount.

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Honestly this made no sense to me. Its like its in a foreign language. It clearly requires other knowledge and concepts I've not come accross. How do I make money off crafters with tome gear I cant trade when I dont have enough tomes myself?

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Heck, you can do this on patch day and include hunts in the process.. Sell your items, then go do hunt trains for a few cycles, and suddenly before you know it by the late afternoon / early evening you will have easily capped your tomes a couple of times and will easily have been 2-8M Gil

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No I did a hunt train once and while it was fun being on voice with someone, the hunt itself was so boring. I'll do them if they can invent someway to get the marks to scale in diffculty. Besides, when ever a bunch of people suddenly show up at an aetherite and you find out a hunt is happening, I'm already doing something. And they never stop to talk or wait around. zip in and zip out.
Perhaps also because I still don't understand. How does a hunt train earn you gil? Whats it got to do with patch day? It just for gems to buy glams and thing? Some materials yes, but... I 've got no idea what to buy. I tried selling mats from Fats in DT whith spare gems. I gotta say, I didn't earn me much.


Nope, I'm not spending a 'whole' evening chasing after after groups spamming a to one hit kill stuff. I just don't get how people find that 'fun'? Besides it seemed kind of drama ridden, there was arguing about when people should go and when people should wait.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

or only an evening amount of work,

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X-D No. I'm not doing 'anything' that feels like work. Certainly not a whole afternoon. I'll do 15 minutes tedium once a week, if I can mix it up with other types of tedium on other days. Like how I do inventory one day, retainers another, cactpot and cards another.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

and no it isn't hyperbole like the "Go make millions an hour" comment by doing Bunnies in Pagos/Pyros/Hydatos (They are lucrative, but not that lucrative), or you then have more to barter with people.

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I remember those. They weren't fun to do even when did Eureka before DT. There is no challlenge. Its all press A one hit killing. More or less. How can anyone do that for fun. I just don't get it.
Bartering? You cant barter on the MB. You put someting up. 15 minutes later someone has undercut you. And if its really valuable it probably hasn't sold two days later. YOu keep lowering the price, and eventually yes it does sell, but not quickly so you lose a huge amount of value if your not checking prices constantly as far as I can tell. Now I just set price to all zeros with at most three significant figures. If its 100,000 I just knock 10,000 off at a a time or it never sells before someone else hits the market.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

It isn't that you're playing the game wrong, but you're playing it in a very restrictive manner.

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I just don't enjoy what some other people enjoy. I have pretty low boredom threshold. And am acutely aware of if something is neither 'interesting' nor 'fun'. (I will never finish ARR relics)

I'm not restricing myself. I just only enjoy battle content and helping people. That's what I enjoy. I do this for fun. If its not fun I stop logging in. (and at present I'm unsubbed for the second time in 3 months after four years straight every day.) So you wont have to hear from me in 7/14 days.

I want to do battle content. Or aim for a 'very clear guaranteed' goal, that is a progression to something. Bartering (arguing, cajoling, persuading, negotiating, profiteering) speculating, "gambling", doesn't interest me, its too vague and uncertain, and I think I'd be bad at it anyway.
I get the market board, but truth is I mostly sell stuff and never buy. I don't see what is has that I need. About the only time I use it is for a glam competition, or to buy a present for someone. Thats the only time I buy anything. I've no idea how any of my stuff sells to be honest. What are people doing with it all? Its junk. Crafting something I guess. But who are they selling it to unless its glamour? I guess thats what it all is.

I enjoyed battling in this game for four years. I never used to have to do this tedious stuff back then. The casual game used to be way more challenging than it is now (old Aurum, learning Darkness alliance, some of the trials and dungeons back when I had no experience, many of the alliances after.) The game has got easier, I've got better, and now I have to do all this... mindless mash 'a' stuff and crafting in order to keep battling. (When I suspect I'm porbbaly just going to be no good at savage anyway.) I wanted to tray savage out when it was the 'current' thing. And I missed the boat. I didn't even know the name of the boat it seems.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

(SNIP)
1: What?
2: I've
3: What?!!
4: ????
5: Honestly
7: X-D
8: I
9: I

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1: Do hunt trains
2: Skill Issue
3: By being subbed and doing content for long enough, or by supplementing that gear you have with drops from Alliance Raids.
4: The five materials used in crafted gear and the material used in creating current endgame potions all cost 20 Allagan Tomestones of Aesthetics.
5: If you don't have enough tomes, that's a skill issue. Grind more.
6: You're just showing that you want people to bend to your whims here instead of looking at what's actually going on or joining the community to go look at when trains are being scheduled.
7: "I want lots of money without putting in any effort!"
8: "This is too easy, it's boring so I don't want to do it."
Pick one of the two stances to have.
9: You should probably play a more appealing game if this is your stance.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

What? I don't understand this? You can't even build extract enough Materia for your own needs? Let alone have enough to sell for a set of crafted in time for raid.
Besides, I've no idea how much materia is needed to penta meld. Its random. Its impossible to work out including margins for 'sample' size with all the percentages. So you just have to save it until after your done with it. So thats not an option for gil to prep for raid, until after I'm raid ready myself. I don't understand gearing, but I know there is more than one set per expansion so thats 2 x 10 x how many sets? 5 x how many x how many sets? (nah just got to save it.) Selling materia for gil (- commision) and then buying it back including commission, is just going to be a loss. If I'm bad at economics and trading, I don't much care, and kowing Im bad isn't goign to suddenly make me better.


I've got no talent for that. No idea how to find out. No interest in finding out. Politics and economics and sociology, and reasearcing redit 'into a game' on the internet doesn't interest me. Spreadsheets bore me. And I don't enjoy squeezing profit. If I see someone flogging NPC gear for sprouts above the NPC price, I just go buy something to undercut it.
I have a system for selling stuff on the MB *quickly*. I check my retainers when I remember and am waiting to queue. 2/3 times a week. (sometimes I do inventory management, sometimes retainers, sometimes gold saucer for mini cactpot and and to sell my cards. Never all of them everyday. Thank god our inventories arent bigger. Just a shame they are full of so many psuedo currencies. I just have to throw most of the untradeable stuff away, no idea whats its for. Mostly when I used to look it up it buys old gear. If I don't know what it is and when I got it or where to use it or on what, it gets discarded. The item hint descriptions seem to have no purpose.


What?!! I only get 450 a week. It takes me two weeks just to buy one chest piece?
I was capping out every week I could once I finished MSQ, unsubbed for about six weeks only, then capped every week, and I only just finished getting my main job to 720 about two weeks ago??!!
How am i supposed to have helios to spare?
Besides I don't think this currency was even out until savage already hit.


???? You cant trade tome gear? What mats?


Honestly this made no sense to me. Its like its in a foreign language. It clearly requires other knowledge and concepts I've not come accross. How do I make money off crafters with tome gear I cant trade when I dont have enough tomes myself?


No I did a hunt train once and while it was fun being on voice with someone, the hunt itself was so boring. I'll do them if they can invent someway to get the marks to scale in diffculty. Besides, when ever a bunch of people suddenly show up at an aetherite and you find out a hunt is happening, I'm already doing something. And they never stop to talk or wait around. zip in and zip out.
Perhaps also because I still don't understand. How does a hunt train earn you gil? Whats it got to do with patch day? It just for gems to buy glams and thing? Some materials yes, but... I 've got no idea what to buy. I tried selling mats from Fats in DT whith spare gems. I gotta say, I didn't earn me much.


Nope, I'm not spending a 'whole' evening chasing after after groups spamming a to one hit kill stuff. I just don't get how people find that 'fun'? Besides it seemed kind of drama ridden, there was arguing about when people should go and when people should wait.



X-D No. I'm not doing 'anything' that feels like work. Certainly not a whole afternoon. I'll do 15 minutes tedium once a week, if I can mix it up with other types of tedium on other days. Like how I do inventory one day, retainers another, cactpot and cards another.


I remember those. They weren't fun to do even when did Eureka before DT. There is no challlenge. Its all press A one hit killing. More or less. How can anyone do that for fun. I just don't get it.
Bartering? You cant barter on the MB. You put someting up. 15 minutes later someone has undercut you. And if its really valuable it probably hasn't sold two days later. YOu keep lowering the price, and eventually yes it does sell, but not quickly so you lose a huge amount of value if your not checking prices constantly as far as I can tell. Now I just set price to all zeros with at most three significant figures. If its 100,000 I just knock 10,000 off at a a time or it never sells before someone else hits the market.


I just don't enjoy what some other people enjoy. I have pretty low boredom threshold. And am acutely aware of if something is neither 'interesting' nor 'fun'. (I will never finish ARR relics)

I'm not restricing myself. I just only enjoy battle content and helping people. That's what I enjoy. I do this for fun. If its not fun I stop logging in. (and at present I'm unsubbed for the second time in 3 months after four years straight every day.) So you wont have to hear from me in 7/14 days.

I want to do battle content. Or aim for a 'very clear guaranteed' goal, that is a progression to something. Bartering (arguing, cajoling, persuading, negotiating, profiteering) speculating, "gambling", doesn't interest me, its too vague and uncertain, and I think I'd be bad at it anyway.
I get the market board, but truth is I mostly sell stuff and never buy. I don't see what is has that I need. About the only time I use it is for a glam competition, or to buy a present for someone. Thats the only time I buy anything. I've no idea how any of my stuff sells to be honest. What are people doing with it all? Its junk. Crafting something I guess. But who are they selling it to unless its glamour? I guess thats what it all is.

I enjoyed battling in this game for four years. I never used to have to do this tedious stuff back then. The casual game used to be way more challenging than it is now (old Aurum, learning Darkness alliance, some of the trials and dungeons back when I had no experience, many of the alliances after.) The game has got easier, I've got better, and now I have to do all this... mindless mash 'a' stuff and crafting in order to keep battling. (When I suspect I'm porbbaly just going to be no good at savage anyway.) I wanted to tray savage out when it was the 'current' thing. And I missed the boat. I didn't even know the name of the boat it seems.

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Jesus OK..

1. Hunt trains can be used to acquire materia, and like I said you can merchant and flip materia all the time through the course of a patch. I do it with crafting materia all the time. 7.3 will release, between now and 7.3 I will be slowly buying up Cunning Materia, I'll stockpile and horde an amount for myself and the market. When new crafted gear releases for DOH/L, I'll then put them on the market and sell at a surplus of what I purchased them for.
2. You do not need any advanced knowledge in economics, marketing or mathematics to pull it off.. It just requires a rudimentary understanding of the patch schedule, and keeping general track of how the game works.
3. The tomes are capped currently, you do not need the tomes indefinitely, 3-4 weeks before patch drops I personally start hoarding my tomes, and I'll save up to cap. I can keep them, see what new materials there and and then sell them off. In my case I use them to craft gear.
4. You stockpile your tomes, and then check party finder for the several dozens of crafters that are buying tomestone materials, or crafting gear on your tomes. Ask them what it means, they'll be happy to rinse you of 2000 tomes and give you between 2-4M Gil for it.
5. Hunt trains wish they could generate the same level of drama as what this chaotic raid has done.
6. Gil isn't free, you need to do some work for it.
7. If you thrive exclusively on challenge then go look at doing the solo extreme primals, stockpile materials from there. Celestial Kimono Remnant from Tsukuyomi Extreme is a good start.

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Originally Posted by LibitIncarne

1: Do hunt trains
2: Skill Issue
3: By being subbed and doing content for long enough, or by supplementing that gear you have with drops from Alliance Raids.
4: The five materials used in crafted gear and the material used in creating current endgame potions all cost 20 Allagan Tomestones of Aesthetics.
5: If you don't have enough tomes, that's a skill issue. Grind more.
6: You're just showing that you want people to bend to your whims here instead of looking at what's actually going on or joining the community to go look at when trains are being scheduled.
7: "I want lots of money without putting in any effort!"
8: "This is too easy, it's boring so I don't want to do it."
Pick one of the two stances to have.
9: You should probably play a more appealing game if this is your stance.

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Allliances what rubbish. Not out until after savage came out.

I took two weeks off work did nothing but play this game. But I wasn't skipping, I was suplimenting a bring MSQ with side quests to make it playabel. And even with two weeks off, I still got through the game late. I don't know what happened, but to me it seemed the only way to do savage back then was with crafted gear, and tomes were only usefull to upgrade. Thats right I hadn't even reached my first EX byt the time savage was out. Much less having time to level crafing to make my gear. What can i say I didn't have the gil and as I've already said, Ive played the game every day for four years, bought two houses.
I agree with the last one. Its 'very' clearly not for me. Not endgame anyway. Its totally, totally different. But without staying subbed the social goes as well. I just want to free style, and do the stuff thats clearly marked out. You need gil to savage when it comes out, and gil is just not clearly marked out. Not kind of gil you need for raid gear.

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Originally Posted by LibitIncarne

7: "I want lots of money without putting in any effort!"
8: "This is too easy, it's boring so I don't want to do it."
Pick one of the two stances to have.

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I don't mind putting effort into battle, but not into working out longs chains of transactions to get from A > B> C > gil. OR lots of different things little hear little there. But not the retlentless slog for stuff like racing to level crafters in time to exclusion of all else. Hunt trains, that wasn't how hunt marks were supposed to be killed. They were supposed to be fun surely?
I need to understand want I'm supposed to do.

Your right its not for me. But I get a vibe they want more people in savage. But its software. They can change it. And they seem to be changing nothing. You want to convert casual gamers into raiders so you don't have to invest in other content then do that. For me the problem is I wanted to Enjoy MSQ organically > level crafting > do extremes > do savage when everyone else was. Savage came out and I hadn't even got to my first extreme, and I had no crafters ready to go. I was playing the game constantly, and I kind of enjoyed most of the MSQ except for the mass euthenasia at the end. (But I was flashing it out with side quests. Enjoying it, like the other four years)

At the end of the day I'm just slow and crap at the game. Try as I might playing all the time. I've just got nowhere.
I magine I'm not alone and so if I say something, it might actually help people like me join you. But I'm not sure there is anyone like me. The people like me, they already know they are done with even extreme and unreal. (and, yeh they've unsubbed and stopped)

I played the game constaly since it came out. Even two weeks of work. I finally finished MSQ on 22 July I think.I say I did side quests, but not really. I'd like follow up on some of the more intersting aetherite chain stories, and I helped about three forlorn looking NPCs. Apart form that it was just having fun in dawn trail. I couldn't have gone faster without ruining it. I was doing what I was thought I was supposed to do.
Maybe I had 'good enough' gear, but I also rememebr being worried abut goign into savage with minIlvl gear, I'd never even done extremes on minIlvl. I think I waited a bit to gear up for extreeemes. Maybe thats what fcksd me. I don't know.

Don't feel sorry or me. it sjust a game. It just seems a shame. Especially if I'm not the only one. I WISH, they'd explained some of this in the othr four years I've been playing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

I took two weeks off work did nothing but play this game. Thats right I hadn't even reached my first EX byt the time savage was out.

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Two weeks off, played nothing but the game, and hadn't gotten to EX by time savage was out? I gotta ask, were you RP walking everywhere? Because even then, savage came out 4 weeks after release. If you weren't ready by then, that is 100% on you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

[...]Perhaps also because I still don't understand. How does a hunt train earn you gil? Whats it got to do with patch day? It just for gems to buy glams and thing? Some materials yes, but... I 've got no idea what to buy. I tried selling mats from Fats in DT whith spare gems. I gotta say, I didn't earn me much[...]

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A lot to go through here, but I'll try answering in order:

1. Hunt train rewards you clusters, hunt nut, poetic, capstone tome, and limited tome.
2. Clusters are for current tier combat materia.
3. Hunt Nut can translate into past tome gears, meaning they can be traded into Company Seals. Alternatively they can also yield current tier combat materias.
4. Poetic is similar to nuts, except you can't pick up current tier materias.
5. Capstone tome can yield either current tier crafted gear mats or more gears, which are also tradeable into Company Seals.
6. Limited tome is... well, timegated. Not much can be done on-patch, but they will have use in next even numbered patches when they eventually become the next capstone tome.

Okay, so we've established what these currencies can be translated into. Now what to do with these? You have several options here:

• Company Seals.

  Tradeable for Cokes/Minium, and many other FC submarine building items. Glamour prisms is also a viable option. These are all MB-able and sells quite regularly. However if you're like me, who doesn't like to monitor MB sales, there's also the option to just buy Glacier Crystal/Bamboo Paper/Magicked Oilcloth, whichever of these "sells for 360g/piece"-items. They're the lesser efficient mean but does not require MB monitoring. Venture coins can also translate to Quick Venture --> Venture Coffer --> Lucky Jet Blacks/Pure Whites Dyes to sell.
  
  There's also the Material Containers that is essentially a gacha box that could yield you nothing or millions of gil should they puke out something valuable. Mind you they're slow moving items mostly.

• Boatloads of -potential- current tier materias (i.e. mostly the XI today) on hand.

  Every even-numbered patches will release new set of crafted gears. This means the influx of players who wants to pentameld their combat gears in the first 5 days would skyrocket. Say, if you have amassed loads of these materias from those trains that you don't use around these small periods, why not throw them to MB? They'll be selling like hot cakes & are expensive.

• Capping limited tome before release of even numbered patches.

  These will become the next unlimited capstone tomes. In its place, a new limited weekly tome will be introduced. Coincidentally, being the next unlimited capstone tome means it'll be used to buy next tier of crafted gears. So the first 2000 tomes jumpstart can either yield or save you lots of gil.

It should also goes without saying, but the last two methods are only viable in aforementioned period(s).

Yes, gil making is relatively easy. But that doesn't mean they're free estate. Once you know Squeenix's rigid scheduling, it all comes down to how much effort you'd like to put in. Making conscious decision to not let some currencies stays capped also adds up over time. Especially since I think you mentioned you don't spend a lot---keeping the habit consistently would've earned you a lot over time just from playing dailies.

EDIT: I missed the part where you mentioned bicolors. Bicolor mount vouchers sells like hot cakes the last time I remember seeing 'em.

In this game there's really no reason for anyone with a max level character to not have millions. Just solo Titania EX for mats and make weapons, or grab 2 or so others and farm Hades for auracite and/or make weapons to sell. Auracite still around 500k and weapons 1 mil. In an hour or two of farming almost certainly get 3-4 mat drops...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

Oh brother, I can't believe there actually was someone in this thread saying that using in game macros to craft is cheating.

Good grief.

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And since this post, it only got "better" (with regards to the entertainment value). I am not one for schadenfreude, but boy oh boy does it read like certain people have finally found their match.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

A lot to go through here, but I'll try answering in order:

1. Hunt train rewards you clusters, hunt nut, poetic, capstone tome, and limited tome.
2. Clusters are for current tier combat materia.
3. Hunt Nut can translate into past tome gears, meaning they can be traded into Company Seals Alternatively they can also yield current tier combat materias.
4. Poetic is similar to nuts, except you can't pick up materias.
5. Capstone tome can yield either current tier crafted gear mats or more gears, which are also tradeable into Company Seals.
6. Limited tome is... well, timegated. Not much can be done on-patch, but they will have use in next even numbered patches when they eventually become the next capstone tome.

Okay, so we've established what these currencies can be translated into. Now what to do with these? You have several options here:

• Company Seals.

  Tradeable for Cokes/Minium, and many other FC submarine building items. Glamour prisms is also a viable option. These are all MB-able and sells quite regularly. However if you're like me, who doesn't like to monitor MB sales, there's also the option to just buy Glacier Crystal/Bamboo Paper/Magicked Oilcloth, whichever of these "sells for 360g/piece"-items. They're the lesser efficient mean but does not require MB monitoring.
  
  There's also the Material Containers that is essentially a gacha box that could yield you nothing or millions of gil should they puke out something valuable. Mind you they're slow moving items mostly.

• Boatloads of -potential- current tier materias (i.e. mostly the XI today) on hand.

  Every even-numbered patches will release new set of crafted gears. This means the influx of players who wants to pentameld their combat gears in the first 5 days would skyrocket. Say, if you have loads of these materias you don't use around these small periods, why not throw them to MB? They'll be selling like hot cakes & are expensive.

• Capping limited tome before release of even numbered patches.

  These will become the next unlimited capstone tomes. In its place, a new limited weekly tome will be introduced. Coincidentally, being the next unlimited capstone tome means it'll be used to buy next tier of crafted gears. So the first 2000 tomes jumpstart can either yield or save you lots of gil.

It should also goes without saying, but the last two methods are only viable in aforementioned period(s).

Yes, gil making is relatively easy. But that doesn't mean they're free estate. Once you know Squeenix's rigid scheduling, it all comes down to how much effort you'd like to put in.

---

Thank you so much for this. Other people have tried to be helpful, but this is the first answer that did more that jus leave me feeling even more lost.
Sadly truth is, I doubt I'll use it now. Which I feel bad about. Genuinley thank you for the info. However, I'm done now I've done the Extreemes, and Chaotic PF has shown me savage culture was never for me.
Maybe with savage when it was happening I'd have built or found a community for the long hall. Whats done is done, and thats just an unreality now.

I played the game constantly and 'enjoyed' The 'experience' of MSQ (I'm not s sophisticated consumer of stories) But I finished MSQ on the 27th July with 2 week holiday at the start. I don't know how these people get through enjoying MSQ, and level all crafters, and craft, in just four weeks. How... do.. you... do that. I wasn't playing MSQ constantly, I cant or I don't enjoy the story. But I was doing the MSQ... a lot, and mixing it up to smell the roses. I played it way faster than when I was working up form ARR.
The route for me was clearly gil. Maybe in another three years then. (but its doubtful)
I don't know if there is more crafted gear to come, or if you can start the next savage tear without doing the first? But truth is its inlikely I'll try now. I'm unsubbed, so can't earn any gil, and I can't imagine enjoying game for all the time I'd have to be subbed to earn gil for the next tear. And I'll just be 'so bad' at the game again. Certainly not good enough for savage. The damage is done. Mostly by myself and my naivety. I just thought having played for four years the game would be 'stuctured' to take me through it the way it had until then. Tomes = gear > do content. Or that I'd easily be able to level crafters and make gear, if crafted gear and penta was what it was all about. That wasn't the case. Yeah I was naive.

Thanks for the info. I can at least see I make sense to someone.

I think its sad. I'm bored becuase I've got nothing to do. But I would craft if I had had a reason (like making my own gear) but now I don't need gear for antthing becuase I wasn't fast enough, and now I don't need to craft and don't want to craft. No interesting casual content. And no reason to do the other fluff. I'm one person they could have kept. The game has no casual game content after the four weeks (I mean battling) They are goign to spend all that time on Extreme farms, and Savage, and ultimate, and Chaotic, yet they couldn't put it off a little longer. To make it more welcoming to more casual gamers who are gonna be left with a drought. (beast tribes for me are filler while I'm doing other content. There is no other content now I've celared each extreme.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

snip

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"Converting casuals into raiders"? What? You do realize not everyone likes raiding, yes? Otherwise, it genuinely sounds like you only like MSQ. So, just do what you like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Did they ever mentioned about the content being unsync-able in the future or is this forever locked to lv100?

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Its synched to Max ILvl 735. That should be enough to see that the incompetence in CBU3 is strong to not even think about that topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

"Converting casuals into raiders"? What? You do realize not everyone likes raiding, yes? Otherwise, it genuinely sounds like you only like MSQ. So, just do what you like.

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I think your right. Fundamentally your either one of those people who get from a new account to savage in a matter of months. Or you'll never have what it takes to do savage.
There is no converting casual to 'raider' (alliance and normals isn't being a "raider")
Hence the choices made with chaotic and criterion. The know it's a futile aspiration. So invest in the raiders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

And since this post, it only got "better" (with regards to the entertainment value). I am not one for schadenfreude, but boy oh boy does it read like certain people have finally found their match.

---

Yeah cheating was a lazy/stupid choice of words on my part.
But they add all of these complex crafting abilities, and tight resource vs star management.
Then none uses the abilities.
They plug their stats and two crafting values into a solver.
And the only 'actions they use' are Ctrl-c and ctrl-v
What a WASTE of dev time. Just get rid of the actions.
The only people having fun are the third party devs.
And THEN I gather there is an add-on that can use the crafting procs, to reacalulate crafts on the fly, like a satnav recalculating for traffic. It's all automated apparently, you don't even have to copy macros.
No I dint believe anyone is working out actions themselves not fit series crafting.
Entry crafting doesn't need it because your effectively OP. And by then your not using your full suite.
There might be one of two mental arithmetic geniuses or savants who do because they know it's hard to do.Z
Everyone else, plug in the numbers ctrl C ctrl V
It's not cheating but it is COMPLETELY bypassing the whole crafting game. Just take my stats and tell be if can do the craft or not. So what if I push one same button instead of four same buttons. The actions, are irrelevant.
It's not morally cheating. But what a waste of dev effort. If I was the crafting systems designer, it's like that cartoon meme with the butter robot. Your existence is pointless

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Yeah cheating was a lazy/stupid choice of words on my part.
But they add all of these complex crafting abilities, and tight resource vs star management.
Then none uses the abilities.
They plug their stats and two crafting values into a solver.
And the only 'actions they use' are Ctrl-c and ctrl-v
What a WASTE of dev time. Just get rid of the actions.
The only people having fun are the third party devs.
And THEN I gather there is an add-on that can use the crafting procs, to reacalulate crafts on the fly, like a satnav recalculating for traffic. It's all automated apparently, you don't even have to copy macros.
No I dint believe anyone is working out actions themselves not fit series crafting.
Entry crafting doesn't need it because your effectively OP. And by then your not using your full suite.
There might be one of two mental arithmetic geniuses or savants who do because they know it's hard to do.Z
Everyone else, plug in the numbers ctrl C ctrl V
It's not cheating but it is COMPLETELY bypassing the whole crafting game. Just take my stats and tell be if can do the craft or not. So what if I push one same button instead of four same buttons. The actions, are irrelevant.
It's not morally cheating. But what a waste of dev effort. If I was the crafting systems designer, it's like that cartoon meme with the butter robot. Your existence is pointless

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My dude you cannot conceive of people just playing the game and enjoying themselves crafting?
"No I don't believe anyone is working out actions themselves"
BRUH come on you can't be serious. Stop existing in hyperbole.

You've said you're a console player in previous posts, so all I can imagine is you sitting on your PS5 silently fuming under the assumption that every PC player is botting or something, jeez.

Girl how many threads are you going to make about casuals and chaotic raid. Give your fingers a rest!

the hairstyle isnt gated behind anything. You are always allowed to buy it from the marketboard. You can get it by gathering, by crafting, by selling your soul in clubs or by any other casual means that grant you gil

I think it's just incredibly tone deaf. Casual players are never going to do content above extreme difficulty. They just aren't. Every single metric you look at proves it. So here's this hairstyle that is attractive to that playerbase probably more than the hardcore players that are obtaining it and selling it and in their infinite wisdom they didn't just add the item to some other activity in the game instead of cheapening it by selling it on the marketboard. So when I buy it for a few million gil, I won't have the same sense of accomplishment.

I just wish we actually got some long forms of casual content. Where are the relics? Even the new exploratory zone is off in the distance, but hey, keep subscribing. We care about your playstyle.:confused:

TWO updates, not one, but two updates with the only meaningful content being stuff that appeals to the top 10 percent of the playerbase while the other 90 percent get chicken feed. Great tactic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SweetestLily

Girl how many threads are you going to make about casuals and chaotic raid. Give your fingers a rest!

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Well, they do have devs, is shouldn't be beyond them to give us something to do 'in game'. This is the closest we'll get to our moneys worth. Honestly I'm actually now so pissed I had to resub for a whole month just for this.

And I really tried to be ready for day 0, to give it some chance. But it had gone to shit by day three.
I got so much better in just a couple of hours. Then no prog for a day. And it was a 'miserable' way and reason to make no prog.
I want my money back.

This really is a case of "idle hands and devils work".

I do think the other thing is well like so many havexsaid coordination with 7 people can be a pain now it's 23 and like many would said they also pay a sub to play I can get why you lock stuff Behind harder content (I dont like the hairstyle) but I think hairstyle can be tricky.

I think cool mount should be for sure! and when I learned the hairstyle was I was like hurgh this is to force player into harder content sadly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

My dude you cannot conceive of people just playing the game and enjoying themselves crafting?
"No I don't believe anyone is working out actions themselves"
BRUH come on you can't be serious. Stop existing in hyperbole.

You've said you're a console player in previous posts, so all I can imagine is you sitting on your PS5 silently fuming under the assumption that every PC player is botting or something, jeez.

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oooh! I missed this. /rubsHands

Oh your all going to get a hoot out if this! Its worse than that. I have a PC and PC license.
But I loved the game so much, I bought a PS5. And the game all over again... and get this... (oh my word your gonna really going to get a kick out of my unhapiness over this you sick Fs) ... just so sit and cosily craft from my sofa. Like I used to, enjoy ticking of that crafting log an an ARR sprout. I liked crafting but I just wanted to chill.
Then I'm getting ready to start crafing my first end game stuff in EW end game.
"Damn this is hard eveything keeps breaking, and and my gear stats keep changing as I gear and meld up" I say
"Oh, eveyone just uses the solver" they say
"The fin what?" I say
Now it was impressive the solver. Very. "I'll bet there is an add on some where where it can recalualte as you proc and just hit go" I say
"oh, there is. Its great" they say
But its just boring using the solver. I don't like being at my PC for long periods. I just want to relax.
No, don't tell me "well, just enter the recipe manually, and don't lose your place, and dont' make mistakes."
Hey I even setup a trial account to be able to 'chat' my macros over to my main acount... but.. what a fricking hassle. And installed XIV on a tablet! Anti fun.

Hey! I even bought DT for the PS5 also! I bought it twice! (yeah, pretty early on in the MSQ. Before all my casual friends unsubbed)
Its not SQX fault I got a PS5 to sit and do chill stuff, but I wasn't expecting my casual friends to leave, and DT to be so, I do't want to say bad. But the only reason it maybe not to me is I'm such a simpleton when it comes to story.
I know right! I'm not so much of a sub 100 moron that I can't recognize what a complete Fing loser I am!
Oh the lolly-lolz!
Yeah I can't sub back without feeling ashamed now. Its could only be a sign of sickness.

Yes I bought a PS5 'just' for XIV. (I'm not rich. I'm not destitute, but I'm not rich. At the most I've ever had 1 extra retainer)
Bye Creative o/

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Edit: I know! I can play the mobile game from my sofa! But my phone is four years old. I'll just buy another! :D (f me I do make myself laugh sometime)
I hope they do a Winnie the Pooh crossover. Now that would be the most Chad thing ever! (move over nods to Dark Souls)

The first problem is with adding 1% sweat group content with rewards locked behind it to a 99% single player game. If I learned one thing while playing this game then it was that people here rather pay on a boosting site than to deal with the agony of finding and grinding through people in a very passive-aggressive and artificial manner, not because the content would be especially hard to do.

Using the term casual as a measure for skill level is kinda misleading, at least as far as FF14 is concerned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

I think it's just incredibly tone deaf. Casual players are never going to do content above extreme difficulty. They just aren't. Every single metric you look at proves it. So here's this hairstyle that is attractive to that playerbase probably more than the hardcore players that are obtaining it and selling it and in their infinite wisdom they didn't just add the item to some other activity in the game instead of cheapening it by selling it on the marketboard. So when I buy it for a few million gil, I won't have the same sense of accomplishment.

I just wish we actually got some long forms of casual content. Where are the relics? Even the new exploratory zone is off in the distance, but hey, keep subscribing. We care about your playstyle.:confused:

TWO updates, not one, but two updates with the only meaningful content being stuff that appeals to the top 10 percent of the playerbase while the other 90 percent get chicken feed. Great tactic.

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That's the issue lately with the game over everything. There was NOTHING this patch.
Society quests? Sure I like the lore with these but I did them for like 10 minutes in the morning and then I was done.
The custom deliveries? Same thing, and this is even worse as it's a weekly thing.
There was no reason to release 7.1 like this without something grindy. That's what I expected the Chaotic raid to be with its reward structure. Instead you can see what it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

I think it's just incredibly tone deaf. Casual players are never going to do content above extreme difficulty. They just aren't. Every single metric you look at proves it. So here's this hairstyle that is attractive to that playerbase probably more than the hardcore players that are obtaining it and selling it and in their infinite wisdom they didn't just add the item to some other activity in the game instead of cheapening it by selling it on the marketboard. So when I buy it for a few million gil, I won't have the same sense of accomplishment.

I just wish we actually got some long forms of casual content. Where are the relics? Even the new exploratory zone is off in the distance, but hey, keep subscribing. We care about your playstyle.:confused:

TWO updates, not one, but two updates with the only meaningful content being stuff that appeals to the top 10 percent of the playerbase while the other 90 percent get chicken feed. Great tactic.

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This has been an ongoing issue with the game since Endwalker began.
I have no problem with harder content getting glams, hairs and mounts to sell, but casuals dont get shit to do.
That said there is a large sect of casual players who do not even play the casual content we did get so the line does have to be drawn at some point. If your gameloop involves afking in limsa every day you shouldn't just have free items mailed to you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

So chaotic came out, and I've seen multiple posters on the forums making statements along the line of

"The hairstyle should not have been added in chaotic when SE knows lots of casual players will want it"

Why do some people feel entitled to cosmetic items such as this? I genuinely don't get it. It's obviously there either: as a reward to players doing difficult content, or as a means to encourage people to step out of their comfort zone.
Even so, it's purchasable on the market board, so why is it such a problem?

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Please please. I just gotta know....l
I originally took this post as serious. And I can get why someone would find it hard to understand why people get upset because they can't get hold of just one set of pretty pixels. (I myself get why they do, I don't get upset, but then I don't even care about mounts)
But now I gotta know...
Because if this was trying to be controversial, it's just goddamned artful! Such a tiny nudge and... 'woompf'. The gift that gives on giving. It just lightly dusts on every raw nerve going for a whole bunch of different groups people that are otherwise loosely connected, gathered then all together and unites them by giving them a big F you.
I mean, bravo! I believe it probably wasn't deliberate, I want to belive most people are nice. Like I say I understand it. But I also appreciate exceptional craftsmanship!

Please, was this just being controversial?

I mean and the timing!
Bloody master class!