Brian from Work 2 Game is leaving FFXIV

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Originally Posted by hagare

eh it is what it is.
No game's for everyone.
Luckily, there are other games out there.

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Well I mean yeah, but I still like ffxiv you know. Or at least I'm still on copium phase. So do pardon me if I can't let this go yet.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Deveryn, you have been called out by many people here on forum. And a lot of them aren't even "the usual guys a.k.a Aveyond and his cronies", as y'all like to put.
So yeah, I think I know what I'm talking about.

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You can't even quote whichever post you're talking about to show how wrong you are, so no. Toxic Positivity has been spelled out and you still don't understand it. Whatever I've said here does not line up. Leave me out of your miserable state. If you're sick of the game, leave. I've been called things, but never called out. People can't have a proper discussion so they resort to BS like this interaction of yours. Bye, Felicia :)

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Well I mean yeah, but I still like ffxiv you know. Or at least I'm still on copium phase. So do pardon me if I can't let this go yet.

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well then I guess you know how people who have been playing since 2.0 does it then

Sunken cost fallacy.

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Originally Posted by hagare

well then I guess you know how people who have been playing since 2.0 does it then

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Err, sorry I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Err, sorry I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about

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They're meaning to say that the way you feel about the game is similar to people who have been playing since ARR first launched.

When someone's big complaint is toxic positivity in a pretty casual game, you know they are the real problem xD

So if they are leaving, it is probably good, such people should go to wow, a game made by elitists for elitists.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

When someone's big complaint is toxic positivity in a pretty casual game, you know they are the real problem xD

So if they are leaving, it is probably good, such people should go to wow, a game made by elitists for elitists.

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Ironically proving his point that this community only exists through its weird insecurity towards WoW.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

You can't even quote whichever post you're talking about to show how wrong you are, so no. Toxic Positivity has been spelled out and you still don't understand it. Whatever I've said here does not line up. Leave me out of your miserable state. If you're sick of the game, leave. I've been called things, but never called out. People can't have a proper discussion so they resort to BS like this interaction of yours. Bye, Felicia :)

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Don't need when 90% of your posts are defending the game while being rude and sarcastic. If you don't live 24/7 on forum, I might be able to dig through your post history to look for examples, but unfortunately, your oldest post the forum show is around 6.1 (I think?) and I can't find it again since it's probably older than that.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

Ironically proving his point that this community only exists through its weird insecurity towards WoW.

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Imagine how terrible a game has to be that an entire community exists that tries to be the opposite of said game xd

Good thing though, FF14 is the top mmo because it didnt follow the elitist design of wow where literally there's nothing to do other than raidlog and nothing worthwhile coming from casual content because the sad l33t raiders wouldnt get to feel as special xD

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Imagine how terrible a game has to be that an entire community exists that tries to be the opposite of said game xd

Good thing though, FF14 is the top mmo because it didnt follow the elitist design of wow where literally there's nothing to do other than raidlog and nothing worthwhile coming from casual content because the sad l33t raiders wouldnt get to feel as special xD

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As someone who never played WoW or didn't care for it beyond the fact that it ruined the lore of one my favorite RTS series, it certainly makes discussion with the average FFXIV fanatic utterly boring.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Don't need when 90% of your posts are defending the game while being rude and sarcastic. If you don't live 24/7 on forum, I might be able to dig through your post history to look for examples, but unfortunately, your oldest post the forum show is around 6.1 (I think?) and I can't find it again since it's probably older than that.

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In other words you've got nothing. I threw you a soft ball and you missed.

You and your logic: I'm not crying about something, so I must be defending it... No, I'm generally just calling ideas trash or unfeasible in those cases. What sounds like me defending SE is generally me just stating facts in a situation. I don't necessarily like said facts. I get rude and sarcastic, yes. People like you earn that. Oddly enough, the alternative is that toxic positivity you complain about. Instead of telling you I don't care whether you stay or go, you'd rather I be polite to you and wish you well. I threw up a little just now.

Maybe if you spent more time learning the game instead of stalking my posts, you'd be better at it and maybe have more fun.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

Ironically proving his point that this community only exists through its weird insecurity towards WoW.

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It's weird, really. I've never seen a community in an MMO where worship culture and gaming tribalism is so incredibly rampant. Most people haven't even played the games they criticize but they choose to defend FF XIV from the alleged "haters" anyway. They only ever played FF XIV. This particular community is certainly a whole new breed of...whatever the heck it is.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It's weird, really. I've never seen a community in an MMO where worship culture and gaming tribalism is so incredibly rampant. Most people haven't even played the games they criticize or defend from the alleged "haters". They only ever played FF XIV. This particular community is certainly a whole new breed of...whatever the heck it is.

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I'd go with "mental".

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It's weird, really. I've never seen a community in an MMO where worship culture and gaming tribalism is so incredibly rampant. Most people haven't even played the games they criticize but they choose to defend FF XIV from the alleged "haters" anyway. They only ever played FF XIV. This particular community is certainly a whole new breed of...whatever the heck it is.

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heh, you should see what WoW players say about preach xD

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It's weird, really. I've never seen a community in an MMO where worship culture and gaming tribalism is so incredibly rampant. Most people haven't even played the games they criticize but they choose to defend FF XIV from the alleged "haters" anyway. They only ever played FF XIV. This particular community is certainly a whole new breed of...whatever the heck it is.

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If you played wow it feels like a pretty reasonable reaction

WoW as a game has been utterly decimated by developers treating raidloggers as special, casual content with worthless reward, pathetic amounts of content to the point their new xpac is just raidlogging and nothing for casuals other than "flying" xD


So when you come to ff14, it looks like heaven in comparison, but then you see the same type of tryhard elitist in the forums moaning about how the game doesnt pander to them enough and how they should get more content/exclusive rewards because they ve been used to WoW unironically treating them as speshiul, and these are also the same people who whine about "toxic positivity" so it makes quite a bit of sense to be very harsh against such elements so the game is not ruined since they are the source of many problems in mmorpgs in general.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

In other words you've got nothing. I threw you a soft ball and you missed.

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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...vent%2A/page13
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...servants/page3
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Weapons./page5
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Dressers/page8

You sure? And these are just a few of them. I don't really have the energy going through trash to look for more.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I get rude and sarcastic, yes. People like you earn that. Oddly enough, the alternative is that toxic positivity you complain about. Instead of telling you I don't care whether you stay or go, you'd rather I be polite to you and wish you well. I threw up a little just now.

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Oddly enough, you also did that to people who aren't "me and people like me".
And idk about you, but even to my nemesis on lore forum I tried to keep my sarcastic reply to a minimum. I'm not saint I know that, but you take the crown when it comes to being all smug and rude.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Maybe if you spent more time learning the game instead of stalking my posts, you'd be better at it and maybe have more fun.

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Well, I'm at work right now so I can't exactly play the game, am I? Also why do I want to be "better at it"? I'm content on being able clear savage, ultimate isn't really my thing.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It's weird, really. I've never seen a community in an MMO where worship culture and gaming tribalism is so incredibly rampant. Most people haven't even played the games they criticize but they choose to defend FF XIV from the alleged "haters" anyway. They only ever played FF XIV. This particular community is certainly a whole new breed of...whatever the heck it is.

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It's always been around. XI and XIV 1.0 were just as much what the heck to the outside world.

XI didn't become that until later in its life, although there was a huge rivalry between EN and JP players since they were largely shoved together on the same servers. That combination of two fundamentally incompatible cultures was hilarious on so many levels, but once in a while everybody would come together when SE did something incredibly stupid. You know, like...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVZHxFWV...jpg&name=small

People tended to be pretty realistic about how bad the game was while at the same time acknowledging we'd play it anyway. >_>

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

XI didn't become that until later in its life, although there was a huge rivalry between EN and JP players since they were largely shoved together on the same servers.

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That's because wow launched what, two years later? All hell broke loose.

I still haven't found the jp button in XI.

I still have fond memories of telling a PS2 player he didn't need to save his game, he just needed to log out.

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Originally Posted by vanaii

That's because wow launched what, two years later? All hell broke loose.

I still haven't found the jp button in XI.

I still have fond memories of telling a PS2 player he didn't need to save his game, he just needed to log out.

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Who needs to worry about the JP button when everybody already communicates near-exclusively through the game's ungodly huge list of preset multilingual words and phrases anyway?

As far as the OP. Brian gave his three reasons. One, he wants to do family. Second, he wants to follow his passion for standup comedy, and third he likes a new mmo New World better.

As far as FFxiv taking risks, ffxiv has been around a long time. New World is brand new. The cycle is always the same and you can only do so much in an mmo before it too changes for good or bad. Everyone outgrows an mmo at some point that's played it for over a decade. I look back on my experience with older mmos that I've outgrown. I will probably outgrow ffxiv sooner rather than later, but it's okay! Hakuna Matata and all that. *sings*

I think Brian is just needing his time to soul search and follow his dreams and ideas of what he wants for himself in life. He wasn't on the top of my "go to" list for info on FFxiv news besides, but I still wish him well. Why OP has to read more into it than there actually was, I hazard to guess. Right now I'm just on the sidelines to see what FFxiv has planned next for 7.0. I'll just have to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

As far as the OP. Brian gave his three reasons. One, he wants to do family. Second, he wants to follow his passion for standup comedy, and third he likes a new mmo New World better.

As far as FFxiv taking risks, ffxiv has been around a long time. New World is brand new. The cycle is always the same and you can only do so much in an mmo before it too changes for good or bad. Everyone outgrows an mmo at some point that's played it for over a decade. I look back on my experience with older mmos that I've outgrown. I will probably outgrow ffxiv sooner rather than later, but it's okay! Hakuna Matata and all that. *sings*

I think Brian is just needing his time to soul search and follow his dreams and ideas of what he wants for himself in life. He wasn't on the top of my "go to" list for info on FFxiv news besides, but I still wish him well. Why OP has to read more into it than there actually was, I hazard to guess. Right now I'm just on the sidelines to see what FFxiv has planned next for 7.0. I'll just have to wait and see.

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Also according to Brian "it's unfortunate that Final Fantasy XIV has a community that is so offended by suggestions that involve the game taking risks". He said a LOT more than just list those three reasons.

His preference for new world says everything really, I played new world.

It has the basic bones of an mmo but it is lacking in so many categories

-Game has quite literally no real story and that is a huge issue.
-Game has no auto group system so the vast majority of players didnt bother with the leveling dungeons, just reached max level and left.
-Combat is incredibly basic and boring since you only have 3-6 skills to use at a time, effects arent great either.
-Incredibly grindy crafting and gearing which I wouldnt consider an issue for an mmorpg but due to the lack of interesting content you just farm mobs/materials/trains and that's it.

Hardcore who love forced socialization and forced grouping might love new world exactly because of that, but the fact remains that the vast majority of players left because the game wasnt accessible like FF14 is where you can just que for casual content and enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

His preference for new world says everything really, I played new world.

It has the basic bones of an mmo but it is lacking in so many categories

-Game has quite literally no real story and that is a huge issue.
-Game has no auto group system so the vast majority of players didnt bother with the leveling dungeons, just reached max level and left.
-Combat is incredibly basic and boring since you only have 3-6 skills to use at a time, effects arent great either.
-Incredibly grindy crafting and gearing which I wouldnt consider an issue for an mmorpg but due to the lack of interesting content you just farm mobs/materials/trains and that's it.

Hardcore who love forced socialization and forced grouping might love new world exactly because of that, but the fact remains that the vast majority of players left because the game wasnt accessible like FF14 is where you can just que for casual content and enjoy.

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Yeah New World hasn't had much time to evolve and set down it's roots yet. Hopefully it will improve for some over time.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Also according to Brian "it's unfortunate that Final Fantasy XIV has a community that is so offended by suggestions that involve the game taking risks". He said a LOT more than just list those three reasons.

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Yeah but he doesn't speak for "this" community typing now. I watch all his video, just I have a different pov.

Wants to do standup comedy and he's jumped ship to New World.

He's got a fine career ahead of him already then.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

See thats the funny thing, people want these "Risks" and for the game to do new refreshing things.
But then they get exactly what they asked for, and they dont like it, saying it should be like everything else.

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Except the manner of those risks desired were already frequently specified. Why should they be not offended when they give examples of what they feel works and what doesn't, make suggestions about lucrative future content paths --if only the devs were willing to risk stepping outside their self-proscribed box-- in such a way as to build on past successes and avoid past failings, and then the devs instead create something "new" that builds primarily on those same past failings they asked to see avoided?

If one were to ask for midcore, light party content with granularly rising challengeable difficulty, offering an alternate progression path to Savage and decent longevity through reiteration... there are very clearly not asking for a form of no-rewards side-content, of a single difficulty, tuned for those who already have Savage gear.

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

Can someone explain what toxic positivity means?

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In terms of social behavior, it's almost identical to toxic negativity. They're both just a matter of toxifying the discussion -- actively muddling terms, polarizing issues, and purposely misconstruing opposed positions, etc., to the detriment of any effective communication.

Toxic negativity simply targets for gaslighting, dismissal, harassment, etc., any viewpoint that seems to take on a more positive appraisal of the thing in question relative to the average participant or to the particular participant responding to it, while toxic positivity targets for gaslighting, dismissal, harassment, etc., any viewpoint that seems to take on a more negative appraisal of the thing in question relative to the average participant or to the particular participant responding to it.

Can I have you gil OP?

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

If you played wow it feels like a pretty reasonable reaction

WoW as a game has been utterly decimated by developers treating raidloggers as special, casual content with worthless reward, pathetic amounts of content to the point their new xpac is just raidlogging and nothing for casuals other than "flying" xD


So when you come to ff14, it looks like heaven in comparison, but then you see the same type of tryhard elitist in the forums moaning about how the game doesnt pander to them enough and how they should get more content/exclusive rewards because they ve been used to WoW unironically treating them as speshiul, and these are also the same people who whine about "toxic positivity" so it makes quite a bit of sense to be very harsh against such elements so the game is not ruined since they are the source of many problems in mmorpgs in general.

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I'd put a more middle ground here. WoW's definition of casual is a bit muddied. The biggest ofense as far as DF come so far (and I do visit the forums quite a bit, level of discussion isn't much different from here) was that Blizzard nerfed the rewards so that casual Solo players can't obtain better gear than those that group up. (Basically if I read correctly gear would cap at same ilvl as Looking for Raid one but would take longer to get). And it's not like base level raids are hardcore or anything. That would be like calling XIV normal raids hardcore... So there's always a grey area there.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

I'd put a more middle ground here. WoW's definition of casual is a bit muddied. The biggest ofense as far as DF come so far (and I do visit the forums quite a bit, level of discussion isn't much different from here) was that Blizzard nerfed the rewards so that casual Solo players can't obtain better gear than those that group up. (Basically if I read correctly gear would cap at same ilvl as Looking for Raid one but would take longer to get). And it's not like base level raids are hardcore or anything. That would be like calling XIV normal raids hardcore... So there's always a grey area there.

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The thing is, casual solo players could never get gear that wasnt worthless, it was already bad enough that it was like 30-40 ilvls worse than mythic gear AFTER some ridiculous grind(A lot faster to just buy a token and buy a m+ boost than grind for trash gear), the usual casual solo gear is like 50-70 ilvls worse so you can imagine how TRASH it is, and then imagine these people jumping on auto group finder for a casual dungeon or pvp and get eaten by others who do high end content.

The fact that they are nerfing that just shows how much they pander to raidloggers aka a minority at the expense of everyone else. The last time a casual player could get semi decent rewards was during Legion and that was because of RNG titanforging, the last decent wow xpac.

The new xpac apparently doesnt even have anything for casual solo players, they are gonna reach max lvl and wonder what is there to do outside of raidlogging xD

This very mentality coming from the devs to please raidloggers has been screwing WoW for years now, they decided to add a deep dungeon that is meant to be soloed unlike PotD which I consider better than FF14's deep dungeon, yet they didnt put any power rewards in it because their raidloggers would complain, hell they had to do it just for a legendary a few times and still complained because god forbid an mmo is more than just raidlogging.

That is why I am happy to see FF14 is not following into the steps of WoW where they obsessively try to please raidloggers, hell shadowlands was the perfect raidlogging expac with the only thing not pandering to them being covenants and they still cried and moaned about it because god forbid they are not optimal for every single boss fight D:

Mark my words, raidloggers will still be crying and moaning in the next xpac even though it is designed 100% for them and just them, an important reminder for SE, never try to pander to people that will never be satisfied, especially such a tiny minority like high end raidloggers.

Hello yes it's me I'm the toxic positivity guy. Nice to meet you! Would you like one of my care packages full of jams and butters?

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Originally Posted by TheGrimace

Hello yes it's me I'm the toxic positivity guy. Nice to meet you! Would you like one of my care packages full of jams and butters?

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Hello Toxic Positivity Guy!

May I enquire as to whether that package might include Marmalade?

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

A lot of people don't like how casual the content can be, but if they did the opposite, "took a risk" and made it like how I am told WoW has been where people spend all day every day just preparing for raids, then the casuals would be the ones dissatisfied. Mechanisms exist to allow you to create your own grindy content such as mount, minion, glamour or achievement farming without forcing others into it.

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The fact is the XIV is going to be like WoW, just in the opposite way. Blizzard shot their feet by creating a toxic elitism environment, XIV is shooting their feet by creating a toxic positivity towards casual contents, leaving behind what should be a relevant feature of an MMO. Contents balancing.
A good MMO should balance its contents so who wants a chilly experience can find it in there in the same way who seeks for a more x-core experience.
XIV forces who is not interested into running dungeons, fishing, rping, grinding achievements/mounts/minions to leave and unsub till next expac.
XIV forces the veterans, players that maybe plays this game since 1.0 and supported it since its first release to play the same old shit everyday.
There is no risk in trying to revamp an old system.
Hear what people wants. They don’t want an hardcore-based game.
They want a fun MMO to play with.
They want healers to have some kind of challenge outside the healing check “difficulties”.
They want the timegating system loot to be removed.
They want an housing system rework (I do).
They want to be rewarded in a proper manner.
They don’t want a brand new dead contents within a week.
They don’t want being sit in PF and wait hours before it fills.
They don’t want anymore excuses from Yoshida.

But this is not what SE wants.
So I guess XIV is well and done. Eventually it will transform in a social simulator where ppl pay 13 euros per month just to sit and talk and this is so fucking sad bc you can do it now for free irl. The collapse of the modern society into a digital one.

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Originally Posted by Jokerz_93

The fact is the XIV is going to be like WoW, just in the opposite way. Blizzard shot their feet by creating a toxic elitism environment, XIV is shooting their feet by creating a toxic positivity towards casual contents, leaving behind what should be a relevant feature of an MMO. Contents balancing.
A good MMO should balance its contents so who wants a chilly experience can find it in there in the same way who seeks for a more x-core experience.
XIV forces who is not interested into running dungeons, fishing, rping, grinding achievements/mounts/minions to leave and unsub till next expac.
XIV forces the veterans, players that maybe plays this game since 1.0 and supported it since its first release to play the same old shit everyday.
There is no risk in trying to revamp an old system.
Hear what people wants. They don’t want an hardcore-based game.
They want a fun MMO to play with.
They want healers to have some kind of challenge outside the healing check “difficulties”.
They want the timegating system loot to be removed.
They want an housing system rework (I do).
They want to be rewarded in a proper manner.
They don’t want a brand new dead contents within a week.
They don’t want being sit in PF and wait hours before it fills.
They don’t want anymore excuses from Yoshida.

But this is not what SE wants.
So I guess XIV is well and done. Eventually it will transform in a social simulator where ppl pay 13 euros per month just to sit and talk and this is so fucking sad bc you can do it now for free irl. The collapse of the modern society into a digital one.

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Looks like somebody cracked the code. Time to leave FFXIV guys :c It was fun while it lasted.

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Originally Posted by Jokerz_93

Eventually it will transform in a social simulator where ppl pay 13 euros per month just to sit and talk and this is so fucking sad bc you can do it now for free irl. The collapse of the modern society into a digital one.

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Personally I don't blame anyone for not wanting to be social irl still. As much as covid has died down, it still exists and I still can't go out without getting sick with something half the time (most recently was a week or two ago). So, it's easier for people to get their social fix online rather than going out and possibly getting sick from the person sitting next to them at the bar. As much as we wish people cared enough about others to not go out when they're sick, people still do.

I don't disagree with your list of wants though and would like to see a lot of that implemented. Housing needs to be fixed and removed from exclusivity (speaking as someone who has a house) as that is a big motivator behind why people are going to be moving to Dynamis. If people still CAN'T get a house then, I'm worried about the backlash that's going to come.

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

constructive criticism is booed off.

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Not if said criticism is actually constructive, which more often than not, isn't.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Not if said criticism is actually constructive, which more often than not, isn't.

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Debatable, you'll see people telling others to shut up even with constructive ideas because we should all just be happy with the game no matter what and Yoshi knows best.

>_>

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I don't know the person and I don't care. This sounds like the next step from the goodbye post on the forums and ends up being nothing more than clickbait. If you want to let one person and their opinion guide you out, good riddance. :)

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And no one cares about your callous opinion either. See how that works?

The point is, while it is relatively small, he does have an audience and a bit of influence and if he convinces even one more person to quit it is one less sub for FFXIV and that shouldn't be celebrated.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Not if said criticism is actually constructive, which more often than not, isn't.

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I've seen countless 2000 words post getting instantly dismissed and mocked on reddit (and here) because it was going against the general community opinions. The claim you're civilized people who only care about quality arguments is dishonest.
No community acts like that and certainly not this one.

What I've seen is people always moving the goalposts of what "constructive" means. And usually the final stage is "criticism is constructive if I agree with it".