"gogogo" might make me quit this game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

It's not even possible to pull a single mob at a time in dungeons. They always pull in packs. For that reason, your analogy is off. Single pulling in dungeons is more like taking a handful of Cheerios at a time. What you're advocating for amounts to cramming as many Cheerios as will fit into your wide open maw.

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Bruh y'all eat Cheerios? Disgusting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

I'm not sure how DR is even relevant to this conversation. DR has no trash and no possibility of wall to wall pulls. I was farming memories in DR a couple of weeks ago, and runs were taking about a half hour. I can't even remember a single wipe in my runs. The "decent" players who you're talking about prefer to run with each other because they've spent hours outside of DR faming essences. Their runs are taking just as long, but they've front loaded that time into essence farming and manual group finding. More power to them. I can't say I've ever been bored in DR.

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Essence farming takes no more than 30 minutes. Or they're simply buying Fragments off the Marketboard. Either way, the extra time spent isn't remotely comparable. I've ran four DRs with a premade PF in the same span of time DF took to complete it once. The decent players decided they were done getting leeched off and made their own incredibly fast alternative. Which does to show how incredibly shortsighted the whole Essence system is from a design perspective.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Right back at you. If you want to play with speed runners, then do that instead of queueing for the duty roulette and subjecting a mix of novices and experts to your impatience. I know it's not reasonable to expect that of you, however, for the same reasons it's not reasonable for you to expect that of me. If I could get 50 tomestones at a pop by exclusively running trusts, I would happily do so.

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Except the typical community standard nowadays is medium to large pulls, especially in Expert. Therefore, you're being the outliner and should be expected to use PF.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

I'm not sure how DR is even relevant to this conversation. DR has no trash and no possibility of wall to wall pulls. I was farming memories in DR a couple of weeks ago, and runs were taking about a half hour. I can't even remember a single wipe in my runs. The "decent" players who you're talking about prefer to run with each other because they've spent hours outside of DR faming essences. Their runs are taking just as long, but they've front loaded that time into essence farming and manual group finding. More power to them. I can't say I've ever been bored in DR.

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LoL... Front-loaded with essence farming... Someone has't been in a proper cluster farm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

It's not even possible to pull a single mob at a time in dungeons. They always pull in packs. For that reason, your analogy is off. Single pulling in dungeons is more like taking a handful of Cheerios at a time. What you're advocating for amounts to cramming as many Cheerios as will fit into your wide open maw.

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I know I’m nitpicking a bit here, but in snow cloak when the snowball drops with the goobbue in it. I always thought that all 3 of them will aggro immediately so minimum pull is 3. This one tank somehow stayed so far away that they only pulled one of them and we then proceeded to beat the snot out of that one goobbue for the next 15 seconds and it was a surreal experience for me. As a healer main who started playing a year ago, I felt like I’ve seen everything.

Small pulling at the beginning when you’re a sprout/new/uncomfortable is fine, understandable, and maybe even acceptable. But at some point, you have to start improving and getting better and eventually being better. Not doing standard pulls when you’ve gotten more experience is like telling your math teacher that addition and subtraction is good enough and you don’t wanna move on to multiplication and division.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I just look at a drop while playing or moving at the same time. Maybe it's harder to do on console?

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I play on both and I'd say it's slightly 'harder' on console. Nothing too major. I just don't want to flood my inventory with useless crap so I compare ilvls and I check the occasional glam. The timer won't allow for me waiting till everything is done, sadly.


Back on topic, I would say it's (as always) clear that these forums are an echo chamber. Rarely do I meet people who act like people here say they do. It boggles my mind that having to spend more than 5+ extra seconds in a dungeon is so unbearable to you guys.

Some people must play with a flip chart in order to maximise every second of this game. lol Oh well. Maybe don't run dungeons so often that staying in them for a second longer gives you heart burns? I myself am insanely bored by dungeons and barely use DF as a result.

That being said, it says a lot about the state of the game if people treat content like it's radioactive yet have to solder through it. Makes me happy we barely get dungeons in patches anymore. haha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

If we've got a newbie watching a cutscene, I stick with them outside the arena. If those who ran in can survive without heals until we get there, great. We'll join them when the cutscene is done or the game pulls us in. If not, then they can enjoy the walk of shame back and hopefully have learned something about manners.

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Veteran players aren't slaves to newbies and you shouldn't encourage that, your action are actually violating grieving of others in the TOS - disruption of gameplay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aron73

Granted, I'm not that high level with my tank yet, but I can speak for my Bard, who is top lvl now, and in my opinion, I think the learning curve when it comes to 4 men and eight-man dungeons is good. Now granted after doing anything several times will make it boring at some point. But it doesn't matter what game we are talking about. Still, in the end, I have to say I have never experienced such a patient community toward new people, and if you one day wish to just plow through your daily dungeons and raids with an experienced group that can pull wall to wall and run through 5 dungeons in five minutes then plz look me up and invite me when the day comes I done this for the 20th time and just want to get my next piece of gear and have seen everything I need/want to see in the dungeons.
But please don't force people that just arrived in this game and looks at the eatherite in their first town for the first time with eyes big as footballs and ask them to rush through the dungeon and skip all the cut scenes because it was only a month ago I was that guy that thought everything even the ground I was standing on looked amazing. I could not stop talking about that guy with the awesome-looking armor and lance that was an lvl80 dragoon or just watching this ninja practicing on a dummy with his awesome-looking moves that made me wanna try all the jobs that this game can offer just to experience the effects.
And above all, the best story I ever experienced in any MMO.
Some of you might have forgotten all of this, so here is my reminder to you all.

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Buts its ok to force veteran players to go slow???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Veteran players aren't slaves to newbies and you shouldn't encourage that, your action are actually violating grieving of others in the TOS - disruption of gameplay

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I would disagree and say those that are actively leaving those watching cutscenes behind are the griefers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Buts its ok to force veteran players to go slow???

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Yes. One of these things causes people to miss out on content, and one does not. Just makes it take a few seconds longer. How can you prove the slow players isnt going as fast as they can? Maybe they are on console or just slow. Slow wont make you miss out. Too fast can make others miss out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Veteran players aren't slaves to newbies and you shouldn't encourage that, your action are actually violating grieving of others in the TOS - disruption of gameplay

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I'd argue it's more disruptive to pull during someones cutscene than to patiently wait. The person in the cutscene will hear the sounds of the fight, receive a notification, and may feel pressured to exit the cutscene before it's over. On the other hand, the person pulling typically won't die and was already accepting that one person would be locked out of the fight till the cutscene was over (or deliberately was attempting to negatively encourage the new player to exit their cutscene early). What's one more person?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I would disagree and say those that are actively leaving those watching cutscenes behind are the griefers.

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The game literally has a feature to skip cutscenes so thats validating its upto players if they wish to skip or not. Also nothing in the TOS actually states players have to wait on others, but causing players to die wilfully in this scenario is grieving.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

I'd argue it's more disruptive to pull during someones cutscene than to patiently wait. The person in the cutscene will hear the sounds of the fight, receive a notification, and may feel pressured to exit the cutscene before it's over. On the other hand, the person pulling typically won't die and was already accepting that one person would be locked out of the fight till the cutscene was over (or deliberately was attempting to negatively encourage the new player to exit their cutscene early). What's one more person?

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You are very wrong here actually. The game allows players to progress how they wish, the game also has built in mechanics that ports players into the arena when the pull is made.

A player causing one to die in PVE by will when a fight has commenced is grieving by all its merits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raelgun

The game literally has a feature to skip cutscenes so thats validating its upto players if they wish to skip or not. Also nothing in the TOS actually states players have to wait on others, but causing players to die wilfully in this scenario is grieving.

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It would be pretty hard to prove someone just watching a cutscene or opening a loot chest is willingly causing others to die. Multiple AFK's in the middle of a boss fight? Then yeah.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Veteran players aren't slaves to newbies and you shouldn't encourage that, your action are actually violating grieving of others in the TOS - disruption of gameplay

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I’m guessing it’d be considered a grey area, treating new players with respect won’t get you an instant ban I’m guessing. But even then, it’s too easy to say you noticed the sprout went into a cutscene, know how long it takes and decided to pet the cat or reply to a text message. Which still conveys the same point: that you allow a new player to enjoy their cutscene in peace. As it should be really. I have a very hard time believing that will actually put your account at risk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

It would be pretty hard to prove someone just watching a cutscene or opening a loot chest is willingly causing others to die. Multiple AFK's in the middle of a boss fight? Then yeah.

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That's never what they were saying. Now you're just being disingenuous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Veteran players aren't slaves to newbies and you shouldn't encourage that, your action are actually violating grieving of others in the TOS - disruption of gameplay

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You’ve said this on several threads. While there is policy that says you can vote kick people for different play styles (eg 3 don’t want to watch cutscene can vote kick the newbie), the newbie is NOT violating the terms of service.

Never in the history of this game has there ever been a case that supports this opinion.

The opposite, however, does have support (eg. Main scenario cutscenes are now unskippable).

So, yes, you and your friends have license to be massive wang-rods if you really want to, but no, the newbie isn’t breaking ToS, despite how many times you keep saying they are.

For the record, there is nothing specific in the ToS about “disruption of gameplay”.
It’s just a huge blanket statement, which may or may not even involve actual game play, they could be talking about bullying, they could be talking about DDOSing…

(3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers.)

Now, the actual list of prohibited activities does go into detail.
It says, very clearly, “Obstruction of Gameplay” and lists specifics on what it means. No where in there is “going slow and watching cutscenes” mentioned. In fact, what they mean by obstruction is stuff like overlapping NPCs so players can’t select or otherwise causing players to be unable to progress. Slow =/= obstruction.


Read the fricking ToS…

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

It boggles my mind that having to spend more than 5+ extra seconds in a dungeon is so unbearable to you guys.

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That’s one heck of a down play when you compare wall to wall, aoeing everything down so things die relatively simultaneously vs 1 pack at a time x how ever many packs between each boss.

Why has this thread devolved into an "etiquette of watching cutscenes" thread? Let's stick to one debate instead of dividing it.

I'd suggest moving to a server on a JP data center. Elemental has a rather high English speaking population, with some servers (Tonberry, Kujata) at over 50%.
If you run the game using the English client, you'll still land in mostly English speaking groups, even if you set your DF languages to JEDF.

People here tend to play a bit more slowly. They still try to get stuff done, but not at the expense of safety. Chatting isn't even needed to find out whether your group is capable and willing to go fast, it mostly regulates itself after the first pull.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Veteran players aren't slaves to newbies and you shouldn't encourage that, your action are actually violating grieving of others in the TOS - disruption of gameplay

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What is this hate on that you have against new people? It's new people that are going to keep the game growing, not entrenched veterans.

In a team-focused situation, players that don't maintain awareness of the entire team's status and just go off lone wolfing are the ones disrupting gameplay. They're not making sure that their entire team is ready for the encounter so they are setting the team up for failure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

I'd suggest moving to a server on a JP data center. Elemental has a rather high English speaking population, with some servers (Tonberry, Kujata) at over 50%.
If you run the game using the English client, you'll still land in mostly English speaking groups, even if you set your DF languages to JEDF.

People here tend to play a bit more slowly. They still try to get stuff done, but not at the expense of safety. Chatting isn't even needed to find out whether your group is capable and willing to go fast, it mostly regulates itself after the first pull.

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"safety" lol

it's not like if you die in ffxiv you die in real life, calm down

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andrealfus

calm down

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Does my reply somehow come across as if I was excited?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kaynide

You’ve said this on several threads. While there is policy that says you can vote kick people for different play styles (eg 3 don’t want to watch cutscene can vote kick the newbie), the newbie is NOT violating the terms of service.

Never in the history of this game has there ever been a case that supports this opinion.

The opposite, however, does have support (eg. Main scenario cutscenes are now unskippable).

So, yes, you and your friends have license to be massive wang-rods if you really want to, but no, the newbie isn’t breaking ToS, despite how many times you keep saying they are.

For the record, there is nothing specific in the ToS about “disruption of gameplay”.
It’s just a huge blanket statement, which may or may not even involve actual game play, they could be talking about bullying, they could be talking about DDOSing…

(3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers.)

Now, the actual list of prohibited activities does go into detail.
It says, very clearly, “Obstruction of Gameplay” and lists specifics on what it means. No where in there is “going slow and watching cutscenes” mentioned. In fact, what they mean by obstruction is stuff like overlapping NPCs so players can’t select or otherwise causing players to be unable to progress. Slow =/= obstruction.


Read the fricking ToS…

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

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maybe you should read the person I quoted, read the thread which fits the 'You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players', willingly not healing for the person I was quoting fits this, doesn't matter whom it was for.

Also are you really trying to represent the history of the game with that statement, you don't represent that position.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

What is this hate on that you have against new people? It's new people that are going to keep the game growing, not entrenched veterans.

In a team-focused situation, players that don't maintain awareness of the entire team's status and just go off lone wolfing are the ones disrupting gameplay. They're not making sure that their entire team is ready for the encounter so they are setting the team up for failure.

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Not new players, its players like you.

Its players like you that are trying to influence people that veterans are to be held at gun point.

As you said, its a team focussed situation, so why the hell are you letting your team die, your ideology to punish people in game is not your right no matter the situation and more so because the vets want to play how they have been playing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EmpyreanHelios

I know I’m nitpicking a bit here, but in snow cloak when the snowball drops with the goobbue in it. I always thought that all 3 of them will aggro immediately so minimum pull is 3. This one tank somehow stayed so far away that they only pulled one of them and we then proceeded to beat the snot out of that one goobbue for the next 15 seconds and it was a surreal experience for me. As a healer main who started playing a year ago, I felt like I’ve seen everything.

Small pulling at the beginning when you’re a sprout/new/uncomfortable is fine, understandable, and maybe even acceptable. But at some point, you have to start improving and getting better and eventually being better. Not doing standard pulls when you’ve gotten more experience is like telling your math teacher that addition and subtraction is good enough and you don’t wanna move on to multiplication and division.

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To be fair, The Division was only good for new york and the new expac called Multipilcation I heard in Division 2 is gonna be worst then the main game in 2. so I'mma stick to Tom clancey's Division 1 only with Addition :D

The community has been changing a lot lately. Leveling dungeons have to go as quickly as possible. People have been far more aggressive in pushing damage meters and punishing those with poor performance. Statics are banning certain classes from participating in EW content. Hopefully, a flood of new players in EW will counter all of that, and I think it will.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raelgun

The game literally has a feature to skip cutscenes so thats validating its upto players if they wish to skip or not. Also nothing in the TOS actually states players have to wait on others, but causing players to die wilfully in this scenario is grieving.

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This is clearly done with the expectation that players will be considerate and wait. We know this because of the change in the MSQ that disabled cut scene skipping. In most cases, cut scenes are short enough that the majority of players can keep their pants on long enough to let the others catch up. When it became problematic, SE took matters into their own hands and now we're all stuck watching a half hour worth of cut scenes, even if every single member of the group has already seen them. Please don't dare SE to force us to be polite. We've already seen that they can and will do it when provoked.

I have yet to see anyone "aggressively pushing damage meters" and banning certain classes from EW high end content. These are no longer the days where you had to bring a Dragoon and Bard together to stack piercing debuffs, etc. Every class is viable in endgame content.

What is more common nowadays is the basic expectation of knowigng your job/role well enough to clear instances in a timely manner, since a lot of core vets still run content while much of the mid-tier players have moved on to other games while waiting for EW to release. As someone who has been around since ARR I have no interest in carrying single-pulling tanks or dps who do not know their aoe rotations.

Guess that makes me a toxic elitist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

This is clearly done with the expectation that players will be considerate and wait. We know this because of the change in the MSQ that disabled cut scene skipping. In most cases, cut scenes are short enough that the majority of players can keep their pants on long enough to let the others catch up. When it became problematic, SE took matters into their own hands and now we're all stuck watching a half hour worth of cut scenes, even if every single member of the group has already seen them. Please don't dare SE to force us to be polite. We've already seen that they can and will do it when provoked.

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Oh just quit with the msq cutscene argument. The only reason that one is different is because those dungeons can be completed in their entirety before cutscenes are finished.
If your argument was valid, you wouldn’t be able to skip any cutscene on game during group content. A little critical thinking can go a long way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

The community has been changing a lot lately. Leveling dungeons have to go as quickly as possible. People have been far more aggressive in pushing damage meters and punishing those with poor performance. Statics are banning certain classes from participating in EW content. Hopefully, a flood of new players in EW will counter all of that, and I think it will.

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I just can't put my finger on what caused this massive change/influx as of late...what could it be? If only some had warned about it...

In all seriousness, if I see certain jobs being blacklisted from content in Endwalker, that will be the final MMORPG straw for me. If that happens in this game too, I will be done with genre that I have played most of my life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I just can't put my finger on what caused this massive change/influx as of late...what could it be? If only some had warned about it...

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It's always been like that though. Especially once said leveling dungeon is no longer new.

You must be new around here.

Personally don’t understand this, in relict for example the enemies and mechanics are ridiculously relaxed that you don’t even need to do your tank buffs. And as for DPS you don’t have any sense of weight to the party because everything dies so fast, I don’t even think Modern dungeons have shared mechanics besides stack markers so you can just blindly do whatever.

You wanna go slow? Why? The mobs aren’t threatening enough for that pace and it’ll just water down a already watered down instance

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Except the typical community standard nowadays is medium to large pulls, especially in Expert. Therefore, you're being the outliner and should be expected to use PF.

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I can buy the argument that this is expected in the Expert roulette, even though I've never run it. However, this go go go mentality is even pervasive in the leveling roulette. I run the leveling roulette for tomestones almost daily. I'm well-acquainted with the lower level instances. I'm not so well acquainted with the higher level ones. I've seen people complaining about having run through these instances so many times that they're bored, but in my case, this is the first expansion that I've level capped in. if the instance is 60+, I'm often running it for the first time at worst, and for the third time at best.

There have been several times when the tank stopped to fight, and I started DPSing, thinking that we were doing single pack pulls, so I wasn't sweating the tank being down a quarter of their health. Suddenly, I look up to see that they've taken off without a word, and by then they've pulled out of range and into another pack at half health. So I've learned to just not DPS and keep the tank topped off even if it's going to make the run slower.

On the other hand, there was this one time where the tank asked, "How did you want me to go? Fast or slow." My response was, "Your preference." His reply was, "Fast it is." I had no trouble healing and DPSing under those circumstances because I knew what to expect. The biggest problem with go go go in general is the lack of communication.

The way I see it, if you're signing up for the leveling roulette, you're doing so with the knowledge that many of those players will be novices to their job, if not to the entire game. It's like if I, as a high school senior, offered to sit in on an algebra class to help out some underclassmen only to nudge them out of the way, fill out their worksheets, and complain to them for being so slow at simple math. If you're unwilling to slow down, then don't run lower level content.

Dps and Healers who try to pull anything, should be left to their own devices so that the ads kill their ignorant attitude alongside their character.

Tanks dont have many responsibilities in this game to begin with, especially in Dungeon content, at the very least, have the decency to let them pull things.

I do agree however, that Tanks should also keep doing big pulls. This Game keeps getting easier with every Patch, which got us already past the point, where everyone gets actual Bots provided by Squeenix to do Dungeon content.

If you want to enjoy the scenery, be lazy or enjoy likeminded company, run with the Bots, Tankred sure wont complain about anyone going afk midfight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Back on topic, I would say it's (as always) clear that these forums are an echo chamber. Rarely do I meet people who act like people here say they do. It boggles my mind that having to spend more than 5+ extra seconds in a dungeon is so unbearable to you guys.

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Thank you. Here I thought I was just lucky. Honestly, if people in the game behaved the way people on the forums do, I would have quit the game long ago. Players in the game are generally polite and understanding. Yes, there is an annoying go go go mentality, but no one in the game has ever objected to slowing the run down after a wipe. I got a laugh last night when the group wiped on Ozma and someone initiated a Vote to Abandon. Responses ranged from, "We don't abandon runs in this game," to, "Who's the nerfherder that initiated a vote?" Obviously, the vote failed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Dps and Healers who try to pull anything, should be left to their own devices so that the ads kill their ignorant attitude alongside their character.

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I leave dungeons if the tank is not pulling. I used to rescue tanks during the time when I played White mage because I naturally walked ahead because I can't move while casting holy. For me it was basically put DoT on all mobs as I walk towards my end destination that is the second mob pull, rescue the tank, and expect him to have established aggro after 7 seconds of AoE stun. If it doesn't work out I am out. Most of the time it worked just fine, only those who wanted to be pulling small were causing problems for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Dps and Healers who try to pull anything, should be left to their own devices so that the ads kill their ignorant attitude alongside their character.

Tanks dont have many responsibilities in this game to begin with, especially in Dungeon content, at the very least, have the decency to let them pull things

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You're right they don't have many responsibilities so if they aren't doing them I'll do it for them.

When I see someone in a cutscene and the sprout icon- I don't rush - But also, you should speak up. If they still don't seem to care, that person is just a bad apple but shouldn't spoil the bunch for you.
Every MMO has it's toxic players

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

haha yeah dont get me wrong Im not trying to RP walk and Netflix while doing a dungeon here. Can I at least look at piece of loot long enough But just yesterday I saw people left behind in main scenario queue (almost always see this) Left behind in Alliance raids, to where multiple people had to ask to stop pulling until everyone gets to the purple line. It was an awful miserable experience and its been a lot more common the past couple weeks for some reason.

Am I asking so much to watch a cutscene or even see what loot dropped? A lot of times people dont even open loot boxes so I have to stop and do it. They just run right past them.

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Go open the loot boxes once the duty is complete and everyone has left. You will get all the loot for yourself.

As far as the watching cutscene is concerned, it depends. If you are dead weight I am starting without you. DPS that clicks on "ready" for DF then at the start of the dungeon says "guys wait pls" and have me waiting for them for 4-5 mins while also underperforming greatly once we have begun to play get to wait for another healer or tank. I didn't queue as tank or healer to wait for someone else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

One of the problems with going slow is that fighting 3 enemies is boring for everyone. It's boring for the DPS, who don't get to destroy an army of enemies and will probably end up doing single target. It's boring for the tanks, who don't have to mitigate or even try. It's boring for the healers, who don't have to heal hardly at all. Once you've gone fast it's hard to go back.

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A boring fight is a fight where you have done everything right, and thus the enemy don't have a chance. An "exciting" fight means you made a mistake somewhere along the line and thus are living dangerously.
Boring is good when fighting.