FFXIV is too simplistic and bland

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Originally Posted by Iscah

If they changed their displayed character, I'm not sure that you can actually track down who their other character at endgame is, unless they tell you. Which would defeat the purpose of posting as an alt.

Currently I have eight characters registered to my account. If you go to the Characters tab of my profile, you can only see the four that I have manually linked. As far as I'm aware, there's no way of identifying who the others are either from my profile or via Lodestone.

Even if you could do that, there's no way of confirming that they don't have a second account entirely. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and all that.

This is not to defend his views, but simply to point out that there wouldn't be a visible difference between someone who has reached endgame and someone who hasn't if they choose to conceal it.

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I didn't mean it like that. I just meant if they changed it after that post.. as in they changed it after we saw they already have an 80 character. that was the proof. I hate text T.T I hope that makes more sense.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

You would only know this in hindsight, because my exchanges with you have been under my registered main. If every post I made in this thread prior to our exchange was done under my alt-registered character, you'd have no clue if I've done endgame or not. You'd only have the assumption I haven't because all you'd see is a char that's not lvl 80. That's why just going off registered char is flawed. At least Iscah made their case using the OP's post history, which is a comparatively better metric.

With that said, not every criticism about XIV endgame requires you to experience endgame first hand. I don't have to know how to bake a cake to see that a muffin is simple compared to a wedding cake. Same way I don't have to personally Hero's Gauntlet when, from observation, the dungeon design follows the same formula as the very first dungeon in the game. Now if I comment on Hero's difficulty without having experienced it then that would be another story.

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No. I meant that the difference in you changing your character now would be that we seen your level 80. So long as you stayed on the account FeliAiko we'll know you had an 80 and just changed. Thats the difference. With the OP we don't have that. We just have a bunch of post history proving they haven't played anything past 25. Which still goes back to them posting on a level 25. So yeah.. everything they say is void because they did not experince it themselves. Anyone can go and say " X is bad " because someone else said it. .but heres there difference.. thats ALL they can say. They can't tell you why, how when or how to fix it because they have no expereince with it. And that isn't a debate worth having. That's why OP's level matters. At the end of the day, making this thread with that character should always get called into question. And seeing as his post history proves he knowns nothing it was right for people to question him.

Let me add by saying it really is what he is saying though. He's comparing a completely different mmo to this one.. and he hasn't reach any content that matters for his debates to work. You don't compare like that. This would be different if he had an endgame character and whatnot. But from the looks of it it just looks like he wants XIV to be another game and seeing how he only got to 25 on an account thats older than 2 years.... Why would you take his opinion in?

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

It's highly subjective so to each their own, sure. What I personally like, though, and what XIV is severely lacking is a general sense of progression (apart from raiding, maybe). The JP midnight thing seems arbitrary, granted, but at least you are steadily progressing or have something to look forward to. Warframe does pretty much evolve around that. It's nice for my lizzard brain to get a reward after a little wait. lol Beastmen tribes do the same thing.

A little pet peeve of mine is when NPCs say they'll contact you later or whatever and you immediately can progress and everyone pretends you were gone for a few days. But that's just me. But I can understand when people don't like waiting around. But it's not like there aren't other things to do. Oh, and doesn't DF reset at JP midnight? Guess that's a vestige from that.

On the weather front, I strongly disagree. It was part of a strategy to take the day and moon phase into account whether you were fighting or crafting. It was awesome! lol And it really meant something when you were in a snowstorm or at a hot beach. But then again, the overworld posed an actual threat. If anything, it really helps me immerse myself. In XIV, the weather is literally just a set dressing, switched on and off like the white sky in ShB (I will say, though, that it's neat how the weather changes when monstrs like Ixion are around).

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The JP midnight thing was annoying as heck, because the quests didn't even always have a line of dialogue baked in to mention waiting a day or come back in a while. Like yeah, it's still around, but now it's for things considered to be a bonus or boon. Stuff it makes sense to timegate like that, rather than, "Trade this item to the ???. Now wait until JP midnight and trade it to the ??? again."

That sorta thing that's your pet peeve is usually connected to quests that were patch ends. Not always, but most of the time, and yeah, it's kinda silly but that's the reason for that.

For weather and day bonuses in XI, like yeah, it was another thing to account for, but all it really meant was that when you couldn't afford to fail, if you could afford to fight whatever you were fighting at a later time, it simply meant waiting until the right conditions. Tactical waiting, yeehaw. Like how it behooves you as a RDM 70 to wait until Earthsday for the Maat fight, so you can just full time a Terra's Staff for that sweet -20% physical damage taken while having a better MP economy per damage dealt with Stone III versus Aero III or Water III. I can recall many times where spells wouldn't stick due to the day or weather penalizing their element. But basically it did boil down to either tactical waiting or grinning and bearing it when it attributed to death or failure.

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

No. I meant that the difference in you changing your character now would be that we seen your level 80.

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Yes, that's what hindsight means, which is why I brought it up to begin with.

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You would only know this in hindsight, because my exchanges with you have been under my registered main.

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With the OP we don't have that. We just have a bunch of post history proving they haven't played anything past 25.

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I doubt you went through an entire 900+ post history, stretching back 3 years (which would indicate OP having been subbed for at least that long as you cannot make posts on OF if unsubbed), to confirm if they only have a lvl 25 char or not. It's pretty naive to think that someone would continue paying a sub (on and off, or otherwise) just to sit on a lvl25 char and complain about endgame stuff repeatedly during that whole time.

Iscah's point was that OP apparently has a history of making threads/posts like these, in ways to deliberately draw attention so that devs might notice or something. Either way, signs are more likely they're someone that's reached endgame and for whatever reason still plays the game on and off even though they're not fully enamored by it. Those type of players aren't exactly a rare occurrence.

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Which still goes back to them posting on a level 25.

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Post history is not tied to the player character you were registered on when you made the post, but your SE account.

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Anyone can go and say " X is bad " because someone else said it..but heres there difference.. thats ALL they can say. They can't tell you why, how when or how to fix it because they have no expereince with it. And that isn't a debate worth having. That's why OP's level matters. At the end of the day, making this thread with that character should always get called into question. And seeing as his post history proves he knowns nothing it was right for people to question him.

Let me add by saying it really is what he is saying though. He's comparing a completely different mmo to this one.. and he hasn't reach any content that matters for his debates to work. You don't compare like that. This would be different if he had an endgame character and whatnot. But from the looks of it it just looks like he wants XIV to be another game and seeing how he only got to 25 on an account thats older than 2 years.... Why would you take his opinion in?

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You haven't actually proven with any credible evidence that OP doesn't have an endgame character, though. All you've gone by is current registered character, and it's already been pointed out by myself and Iscah why trying to go that route is flawed.

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

different kind of mmos. In fact since you seem to have forgotten, ff14 1.0 had the ff11 style and it was one of the major factors that it flopped, it was only after that, that they took inspiration from Wow that 2.0 came to fruition.
Also i read most of it, the only thing that stack to me was how you compare it to ff1 and ff13. especially saying ff14 is also linear and ff13 side questing was more rewarding.
So ill say again what i said, youre comparing apples to oranges and finding the later inferior.

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Not really. It was you could play for a certain amount of time before you got severely diminished returns in xp. No seriously you got fatigue and eventually you couldn't gain xp. Its like why and it took them.forever to remove it.

Also the latency server side was absolutely horrendous on top of the high pc requirements to actually run the game set the game towards a failed MMO.

That's the major reasons it failed in the first place.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Yes, that's what hindsight means, which is why I brought it up to begin with.





I doubt you went through an entire 900+ post history, stretching back 3 years (which would indicate OP having been subbed for at least that long as you cannot make posts on OF if unsubbed), to confirm if they only have a lvl 25 char or not. It's pretty naive to think that someone would continue paying a sub (on and off, or otherwise) just to sit on a lvl25 char and complain about endgame stuff repeatedly during that whole time.

Iscah's point was that OP apparently has a history of making threads/posts like these, in ways to deliberately draw attention so that devs might notice or something. Either way, signs are more likely they're someone that's reached endgame and for whatever reason still plays the game on and off even though they're not fully enamored by it. Those type of players aren't exactly a rare occurrence.



Post history is not tied to the player character you were registered on when you made the post, but your SE account.



You haven't actually proven with any credible evidence that OP doesn't have an endgame character, though. All you've gone by is current registered character, and it's already been pointed out by myself and Iscah why trying to go that route is flawed.

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Then they should prove it. And post on their main character or account. That's what me and a few others have been saying. And until they do their word is not valid. I also don't need to prove anything. I'm not the one saying the game needs to change based on things I have not done. Again why defend someone who's a known troll? You even agree to this. so why defend him?

To add more detail to this.. .this whole debate we're having proves my earlier point. Had they posted on their endgame character none of this would've came up. You even confirm this. You know people will do this and it'll never stop. And it shouldn't stop. Because your character is all we see.. that and your post history. When your post history already proves you're a troll looking to stur people up you're already losing. And to add to that you only post on a level 25 character? Yeah man you get called out and rightfully so. Thats the issue. If he wants to be taken seriously then he needs to prove it's worth it to be taken seriously. And that's not creating troll topics on a level 25 character. Again. If we let him get away with that then that only lets other people come here and complain about stuff they never did. Like people who complain about endgame yet have never touched it. We don't need more of that.

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Originally Posted by usernameuwu

I've noticed that if anyone says anything bad about this game or if they say they are getting bored , the people in the comments really do just be like" lol, leave"..

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every forum is like this, people hate critique and will go the extra mile to defend whichever harebrained argument transpires. The good ol' bait.

but ff14 difficulty is one of my bigger complaints, as its a huge gross trend to dum everything down becuase dum people have alot of money theyd like to have, so I have no issue with the topic. This isnt a kids game guys we pay a fee every month to be bored to death by difficulty found in a pokemon game.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

To be fair sometimes when people criticise the game it's painfully clear that they don't want improvements in just some areas. They want so many changes that it would end up being a totally different game. If the game is enjoyed by the majority of the player population then I think it's completely fair to tell the OP that they should play something else. Especially if that something else they want already exists in a different game.

In OP's case it seems they appear to want XIV to be XI-2. They need to realise that while this game was initially intended to be a successor to XI, that design philosophy was left behind in 1.0 which was a very long time ago by now. They need to face the fact that for most of XIV's existence it has not been intended to be the next step from XI, and it won't ever be going down that path again save for specific features like Eureka, which are side content and not the core of the game.

Regardless of whether OP likes the game or not XIV's current design philosophy is successful. It's not perfect, but is any game? I feel like if they want to play XI then they should go play XI instead of complaining that a completely different game isn't XI.

During the time when I played both WoW and XIV I found myself far preferring XIV, and while I would have loved to see the things about XIV I love come to WoW I had the presence of mind to realise that these games target different audiences. I didn't make a post about how WoW should adpot some things SE do. I just left the game behind and played XIV full time instead. OP needs to understand that XI and XIV target different audiences.

I think OP's time would be better spent discussing with XI players how a XI-2 game would be and what they would want it to be, instead of coming here complaining that XIV isn't XI.

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well said

you dont eat pizza wishing it was steak. Improving Pizza is easier than trying to figure out what gross shinanagins you can muster to please both steak lovers and pizza lovers when its easier to make pizza better as it is and always will be

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Originally Posted by Jirah

every forum is like this, people hate critique and will go the extra mile to defend whichever harebrained argument transpires. The good ol' bait.

but ff14 difficulty is one of my bigger complaints, as its a huge gross trend to dum everything down becuase dum people have alot of money theyd like to have, so I have no issue with the topic. This isnt a kids game guys we pay a fee every month to be bored to death by difficulty found in a pokemon game.

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I think it's abit deeper than that. Yeah there are people who blindly defend anything but I don't think that is what is happening here now. With the way they had their post it really does look like they just want FF11 part 2. And in that case they would be better off going back to said game. It's one thing to want improvements, it's another thing entirely to want to turn this into another game completely. That's like me coming in and saying I hate the hotkey combat and want a more Tera like system. And come up with a million points to state my point. That doesn't make what I have to say good. That's what OP is doing.

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

Then they should prove it. And post on their main character or account. That's what me and a few others have been saying. And until they do their word is not valid. I also don't need to prove anything. I'm not the one saying the game needs to change based on things I have not done. Again why defend someone who's a known troll? You even agree to this. so why defend him?

To add more detail to this.. .this whole debate we're having proves my earlier point. Had they posted on their endgame character none of this would've came up. You even confirm this. You know people will do this and it'll never stop. And it shouldn't stop. Because your character is all we see.. that and your post history. When your post history already proves you're a troll looking to stur people up you're already losing. And to add to that you only post on a level 25 character? Yeah man you get called out and rightfully so. Thats the issue. If he wants to be taken seriously then he needs to prove it's worth it to be taken seriously. And that's not creating troll topics on a level 25 character. Again. If we let him get away with that then that only lets other people come here and complain about stuff they never did. Like people who complain about endgame yet have never touched it. We don't need more of that.

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Sadly while I see your point, you're not helping. All both of you are doing is adding more fuel to what is likely a troll post to make people fight over the internet. It's been proven they do this atleast once a month to do excatly what you two are doing. I know it sucks to drop a point if you believe strongly in it.. but you should just let it go. Enjoy the story and get off the forums. You mentioned you're new. WHY ARE YOU HERE?! This place will ruin you!!!

75 era of ffxi was probably the worst. Dunno what kind crack people smoking saying it was the best. I played through all the eras of ffxi and still play it and 75 was no where near the best era of ffxi. It started to improve after the 75 era and got better.

One thing that I would say ffxi still has and probably will have over every mmo is the gear system. You actually had gearsets for different things. Not just get highest ilv and your set. Gear actually has value in ffxi cause each piece has its own use. Gear also has its own unique stats to buff different abilities, spells, ws's, etc.

FFxiv's main selling point is the theme park and glamour. It takes a lot less time to do things in it so lot more people are drawn to it. Which in this day and age is great. Could it use improvements? Yes. All games could always use improvements. Overall it has gotten much better over time.

1.0 also was nothing like ffxi. It failed for a whole lot of reasons and being like ffxi wasn't one of them. They basically took what they learned from mmos the first time around and didn't use it and used the worst things they could in 1.0.

I'm glad they were smart and made ffxiv what it is now from what 1.0 was. It could use a bit more of a job spread that is true to the ff brand. Brd being mixed with Rng was crappy. They should of been two separate jobs.

I played XI for about a decade. I ran a large Dynamis shell, and participated in HNM shells.

There are certain aspects about XI I miss, but a lot of the things OP mentioned aren't among them. Like the boat cutscenes. Nothing worse than planning to do content in that one ToAU island that was a 15 minute boat ride from the mainland, and the main tank MISSING THE BOAT. And the only shortcut option available was a cash shop item for an ugly pewter Leviathan necklace that cost $100. We'd have the handful of folks who had that item stationed in Aht Urghan, ready to teleport the latebies, but there was always that one person who logged in 2 minutes after the last one teleported.... and we had to wait for them to catch the boat. I think Ocean Fishing was a great way to give the boat fishing experience to the fishers without really inconveniencing the rest of the player base, and I'm grateful for that.

Things I do miss about XI - tiered HNM pops in open zones for raiding. Raids up to 64 people. And.... uh..... that's about it? I mostly miss my friends. Very few of them made it with me to XIV. But some of them did! And we still play together.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

FFXIV is too simplistic and bland

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You are only level 25...
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cter/28848283/

You haven't seen half of the most boring and bland part of FFXIV.
The "real gameplay" starts in Heavensward and extensions after extensions, It evolves a lot to become more interesting in terms of gameplay.

LvL 25 : "FFXIV is too simplistic and bland" Ok
But you've seen nothing of the game. WoW Classic wasn't really great before Burning Crusade.

If FFXIV was fun at ARR it would be known and he wouldn't have wanted to do the ARR part again.


Thanks for your review of newbie lvl 25/80.
Try again in Shadowbringer...

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Originally Posted by Naoki34

You are only level 25...
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cter/28848283/

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I may be off but those are the Ala Mhigan earrings in that lodestone image. Either there's a way to get them past the Stormblood preorder that I don't know of or it is an alt.

Honestly, I just kind of wish they'd kept the cross class requirements. I had quit when HW released and returned when Stormblood dropped. One thing I definitely recall was having actual incentive to level other jobs. The game doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy game despite always being referred to as a single player role playing game with online multiplayer elements or something along those lines. Zones are dead, there's nothing to do in them no incentive to do anything in zones other than, what a few rare fates that drop unique items and gathering nodes.

I just want the world to feel alive, and feel like I'm playing a game that's alive. Not a game where everyone is either in an instance fighting a boss or just sitting there AFK/Roleplaying/Crafting in an instanced town. The social aspect of this game is still here thankfully, but the adventure isn't. Feel like our adventure is just waiting for the next MSQ patch to drop and that's it.

They did however attempt to patch the dead world in Shadowbringers by giving a bit of incentive to do FATES again, but that didn't last long at all. Even still zones are dead. I don't have much issue with questing though cause really, what can you do. Take the god awful Guild Wars 2 approach and just remove quests overall and do the dumb hearts and never feel like you've progressed in any sense of the word? Yokai Watch, just another small fix that won't last once its gone until lit returns again.

I currently have no issue with traveling to be quite honest, though I don't play WoW I did play ArcheAge and sitting on the airship in open world and watching the environment change around you in real time as you traveled on it and switched zones was something and still is something that I enjoy. This game cater's a lot towards the casual community and I'm okay with that, but there's still no incentive to do anything outside of raiding for me personally. I love crafting and gathering in MMOs and I do it in this game too. Maybe I just want more? More content.

The game definitely is very simplistic, the most amount of skill this game takes is learning your rotation and doing a dance in a boss fight which ironically people still can't do. My other problem in this game is that there are a lot of things that go unused and serve no real actual purpose even if used by some. Linkshells don't serve the purpose they used to in XI. Fellowships, really are useless and don't know why they exist at all honestly cause nobody does anything with it. Really you can't do anything with it....it serves absolutely no purpose.

Also my thought process is everywhere, I don't have a organized way of thinking and writing or talking so this is sort of a mess. All in all, the drought I feel is nothing compared to what 15 year WoW vets feel about their game but I probably feel something similar in XIV. Pretty much just a game of glamour and roleplay...at least that's been my experience since returning for the past 2 years.

edit: just wanted to say this is just my personal opinion/experience. I've read this entire thread and enjoyed seeing what you guys had to say as well.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results; but insanity can also be trying something different other than what was working......... FFXI was deemed the most profitable game in the franchise for good reason, it worked. XIV is solid, but it will NEVER be beloved like XI.

I am also playing XI as I type this while looking at big booty ebony chicks in my tabs, so you can't tell me to go play XI then...

Bwahahahaha!!!!!

The original post is comparing oranges to apples. Can’t compare a stand-alone single player game designed to be played and completed to an MMO designed to keep you paying a sub for years.

I do think it could be improved though. What’s there isn’t bad, it’s very good, but it’s formulaic. I mean I’ve just done what essentially boils down to the exact same allied tribes quest line for the third time. Only not as good as the first one. Same with Hildibrand.

I would say that while presentation is getting better with each expansion, the formulaic nature of the quests, job design, dungeons and end game content can come across as lazy. However I guess a lot of it is by necessity. If they made Astro overpowered and uniquely fun to play in a single player game they wouldn’t have upset scholars. And when they have tried something new like Eureka there have been as many not liking it as do.

To be honest I used to have some of these opinions, some I still agree on like the overworld/zone design, homogenized job design and boring equipment, but I learned to just appreciate what FFXIV does have to offer. These days I only play FFXIV for the story, new (but otherwise short-lived) battle content and social interactions. The game doesn't completely fulfill what I wanted in an MMO but it's still enjoyable.

I would be surprised if FFXIV drifted from its current content roadmap and significantly changed the fundamentals in the next expansion, especially this late into its lifespan.

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Originally Posted by He-Saiyan

FFXI WAS deemed the most profitable game in the franchise for good reason

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Bolded and underlined for emphasis.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

To be honest I used to have some of these opinions, some I still agree on like the overworld/zone design, homogenized job design and boring equipment, but I learned to just appreciate what FFXIV does have to offer. These days I only play FFXIV for the story, new (but otherwise short-lived) battle content and social interactions. The game doesn't completely fulfill what I wanted in an MMO but it's still enjoyable.

I would be surprised if FFXIV drifted from its current content roadmap and significantly changed the fundamentals in the next expansion, especially this late into its lifespan.

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They have changed the fundamentals quite a few times. It wouldn't surprise me if it changes again before 6.0.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

They have changed the fundamentals quite a few times. It wouldn't surprise me if it changes again before 6.0.

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Eh... Content and the game itself still plays essentially the same as it did back in ARR. Of course there were changes (good and bad) and improvements over the years but I wouldn't say the game feels different to the point of feeling unfamiliar.

Beware what happened to Runescape, the devs change the game so radically, it alienated all the old players, resulting in them demanding the old game be restored. Thus Old Runescape was born from an old server backup which ended up becoming the more popular version of the game in terms of player population.

People who have already gotten into FFXIV, aren't necessarily interested in seeing FFXIV turned into a different game.

All this thread reminds me of what was discussed here
People who do not know how to criticize the game without turning it into another game and this thread is the perfect example of what I comment there.

"Many times on reddit I read people who want to make FFXIV a clone of FFXI or another MMO, if I want to play the systems of those MMOs I'm going to join those MMOs."
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...about-the-game

Ffxiv can have improvements and add even more awesome stuff like they did every patches. I welcome new things and experience but i won't call ffxiv simplistic and bland. It's always enjoyable to me.

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Originally Posted by Nayout

All this thread reminds me of what was discussed here
People who do not know how to criticize the game without turning it into another game and this thread is the perfect example of what I comment there.

"Many times on reddit I read people who want to make FFXIV a clone of FFXI or another MMO, if I want to play the systems of those MMOs I'm going to join those MMOs."
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...about-the-game

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Imho.....i think its more about ffxiv having done some great things but if it were able to incorporate some other elements it could transcend ffxi's and other mmos longevity/overall re-playability. Lets be brutally honest...if innovation does not occur at some point its a matter of if not when for this game to fizzle out. We rooting for ffxiv ultimately but its long over due for some real innovation

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Imho.....i think its more about ffxiv having done some great things but if it were able to incorporate some other elements it could transcend ffxi's and other mmos longevity/overall re-playability. Lets be brutally honest...if innovation does not occur at some point its a matter of if not when for this game to fizzle out. We rooting for ffxiv ultimately but its long over due for some real innovation

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And. No. Matter. How. Much. This. Is. Said. The. Game. Keeps. Going. From. Strength. To. Strength.

Seriously, this crap was being said as early as 2.0.

Seriously, this “we need more x or the game will wither and die /couchfaint” meme needs to go die in a fire.

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Originally Posted by Razard

And. No. Matter. How. Much. This. Is. Said. The. Game. Keeps. Going. From. Strength. To. Strength.

Seriously, this crap was being said as early as 2.0.

Seriously, this “we need more x or the game will wither and die /couchfaint” meme needs to go die in a fire.

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Look at those 22+million people who bought the game (SE's Numbers). This game has a retention of 4-5% at most and massive active population dips between patches. What happens when the new players stop coming in. What would of happened if WoW did not release garbage tier expansion after garbage tier exansion in a row for the last 4yrs. FFXIV does really good getting new ppl into it, it is horrible at keeping the majority here. XI was the opposite it was horrible at getting new players but kept its current player-base very stable for nearly a decade. Game capped at 600ishk subs and maintained over 450k for the next 8yrs with a very slow decline, daily log in averages never dipped between patched, people never took long breaks to others games, people never made post on any websites that they were bored and had nothing to do. Imagine this game if you combined the two. Getting millions of new players and keeping 50-75% of them long term. What WoW did when it launched, how they got absurd sub counts.

I got a few friend from Archeage to come over to ffxiv about 5 months ago. They were having a blast playing ffxiv. Logging in Daily, posting comments like omg this game is <expletive> awesome on discord. A few weeks ago I got sent a message. "What do I do now, we just capped points and we went through savage and bunker" it was Thursday. My only comment was welcome to the club, level something else or log out until Tuesday. Next week he told me him and the few ppl all preorded WoW's next expansion and will be taking a break because there is nothing to do here. Maby they will come back, maby not.

Eventually the new players will stop coming. Once that happens the game will start dying very fast. The higher retention the game has the slower it will be.

There is alot of stuff ffxiv does right, content duration is not one of them.

Now with FFXIV honestly alot could be fixed I feel easily, if they continue the Eureka like content, releasing that at the same time as the FIRST SAVAGE RAID, not 2/3rds of the way through an expansion. Make it an alternate path for BIS GEAR. You have tokens, savage, and relic all equal in power. 3 paths instead of 2. Now people can level 3 job arcs such as Healer, Melee, and Range instead of just 2 that we have now. People could finish the weeklies and have content with longevity at the start of each expansions to participate in that would occupy alot of peoples time.

That's true for most MMO's though so by that logic they're all dying, they're all a fraction of their players active Vs created.
ESO: 14,638,045 total players VS 695,307 active players
WoW Clasic: 23,378,742 total VS 1,332,588 active
FFXIV: 19,337,062 total VS 1,653,319 active
I see none of these "death flags" that 14 is going to suddenly or even slowly die, it's only grown and is holding fine numbers.

On a personal note, if increasing player retention means releasing more grindy contents, then I'd rather they reconsider. I like the pacing of the content as is. I like being done on Tuesday and then for the rest of the week, I play, not because I have to, but because I actually enjoy the content.

Yes, I also subscribe to WoW, but not because lack of content in FFXIV, but because I can never be satisfied playing only one game. I don't do all the contents there is to do in either FFXIV or WoW (or SWTOR, and yes, I play that too, but only when there is new story). But I enjoy the contents in FFXIV more because I get that feeling of being finished more often in FFXIV than in WoW (though I still enjoy WoW's contents as well, obviously).

As far as retention is concerned, I'm not worried either way. If there ever comes a time when FFXIV stops having enough player to maintain further development, then it just means that it's time for a new game. I look forward to the next FF MMO.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Look at those 22+million people who bought the game (SE's Numbers). This game has a retention of 4-5% at most and massive active population dips between patches. What happens when the new players stop coming in. What would of happened if WoW did not release garbage tier expansion after garbage tier exansion in a row for the last 4yrs. FFXIV does really good getting new ppl into it, it is horrible at keeping the majority here. XI was the opposite it was horrible at getting new players but kept its current player-base very stable for nearly a decade. Game capped at 600ishk subs and maintained over 450k for the next 8yrs with a very slow decline, daily log in averages never dipped between patched, people never took long breaks to others games, people never made post on any websites that they were bored and had nothing to do. Imagine this game if you combined the two. Getting millions of new players and keeping 50-75% of them long term. What WoW did when it launched, how they got absurd sub counts.

I got a few friend from Archeage to come over to ffxiv about 5 months ago. They were having a blast playing ffxiv. Logging in Daily, posting comments like omg this game is <expletive> awesome on discord. A few weeks ago I got sent a message. "What do I do now, we just capped points and we went through savage and bunker" it was Thursday. My only comment was welcome to the club, level something else or log out until Tuesday. Next week he told me him and the few ppl all preorded WoW's next expansion and will be taking a break because there is nothing to do here. Maby they will come back, maby not.

Eventually the new players will stop coming. Once that happens the game will start dying very fast. The higher retention the game has the slower it will be.

There is alot of stuff ffxiv does right, content duration is not one of them.

Now with FFXIV honestly alot could be fixed I feel easily, if they continue the Eureka like content, releasing that at the same time as the FIRST SAVAGE RAID, not 2/3rds of the way through an expansion. Make it an alternate path for BIS GEAR. You have tokens, savage, and relic all equal in power. 3 paths instead of 2. Now people can level 3 job arcs such as Healer, Melee, and Range instead of just 2 that we have now. People could finish the weeklies and have content with longevity at the start of each expansions to participate in that would occupy alot of peoples time.

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This is EXACTLY what ive been trying to say overall but with way more detail. Thank you

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Originally Posted by linayar

On a personal note, if increasing player retention means releasing more grindy contents, then I'd rather they reconsider. I like the pacing of the content as is. I like being done on Tuesday and then for the rest of the week, I play, not because I have to, but because I actually enjoy the content.

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Out of curiosity, though, would you like more varied or enjoyable (subjective, I know, so let's just say it touches on a wide range of strike zones) means of capping, even if it meant potentially waiting until later in the week (e.g. if each day showed you which pieces of content then and for the next 6 days will get... challenge-mode bonuses, and you might want to pick which of those, specifically, you want to do)?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Out of curiosity, though, would you like more varied or enjoyable (subjective, I know, so let's just say it touches on a wide range of strike zones) means of capping, even if it meant potentially waiting until later in the week (e.g. if each day showed you which pieces of content then and for the next 6 days will get... challenge-mode bonuses, and you might want to pick which of those, specifically, you want to do)?

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I don't have regular work hours and so there are days when I just don't have the time/energy to play, so having content required to cap be tied to specific days just wouldn't work for me. But if I have enough time to play every day, then it really doesn't matter either way. "Being done on Tuesday" doesn't have to be applied strictly. For example, I like that I can cap the 450 tomestones in a day. But because I enjoy doing roulettes, I don't force myself to cap in a day, but just cap them "passively" while doing roulettes. At the same time, I'm glad that I don't have to do roulettes every day of the week just to cap, so I can miss out on playing on some days if I want/need to.

But for a different type of grind, I also like how beast tribe reputation works in FFXIV. Even though it's a daily cap (rather than weekly), the rewards are not tied to something that I would want sooner rather than later (like gear, flight ability, or playable race...). And, it's still a short grind overall.

Then there's Yokai Watch event. I did enough of it the second time it happened to get the non-glowing mount on a previous character, but the reward is really not worth it to me for the type of content it is. And because of that, I'm ok with it because I don't feel like I'm missing out. So I still think it's a good event to have in the game for others to enjoy and get the reward.

Relic quests are also another type of grind that I think is good because the rewards aren't really something I feel I would need. I've tried every relic quest so far, and had only ever completed one SMN weapon for the HW version. I will try to do ShB's as well, but if I don't complete it, it'll be fine.

TLDR:

I like how FFXIV does its "repetitive gameplay." The main grind is weekly capped and can be done via rouletttes/raids/dungeons (and/or other contents as well) in a day or spread over the week while the rest offer item rewards that do not mess with the main gearing system or gate more significant features of the game.

And speaking of gearing, I vastly prefer the looting system in FFXIV and specifically how it works in normal and alliance raids with their weekly loot as well as in leveling dungeons with their guaranteed end-of-run drops over the looting system in BfA and specifically how it works in LFR with its weekly chance. That affects my overall enjoyment of grindy contents as well.

Titanmen is that you?

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Yah, but I don't care about your opinion of what I enjoy, so I'm going to go ahead and continue enjoying it.

You know, to get this vibe out of the way.

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I love this, short and accurate.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

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Do we need more content like Eureka? Yes, totally and curiously with this content is where we had more active subscribers, Eureka helped a lot to keep people in the game something that Shadowbringer has not done.

We have content problems with people who have been playing for years, but a new person who stops playing is no longer a problem with the game, it is the person's problem, especially if this person has not made Ultimates or Savage and especially considering that there is content I still live as Baldesion which involves making full Eureka.

5.35 introduces southern front and maybe this will be the content that will cater to the more tenured players. Any word on eta?

Didn't Weskalber made a video talking of a character like OP just last week?

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Originally Posted by Deslyxic

Didn't Weskalber made a video talking of a character like OP just last week?

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Who is that and what do you mean?

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

But it really doesnt have to be.

I also do not understand...

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Tldr.... I too find XIV too simplistic and bland.

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

different kind of mmos. In fact since you seem to have forgotten, ff14 1.0 had the ff11 style and it was one of the major factors that it flopped, it was only after that, that they took inspiration from Wow that 2.0 came to fruition.

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Most XI players did not want to move over to a weak copy of XI thats why 1.0 flopped. Say ty to blizzard I guess... (Ill never say that again btw) Period

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Originally Posted by Nayout

Do we need more content like Eureka? Yes, totally and curiously with this content is where we had more active subscribers, Eureka helped a lot to keep people in the game something that Shadowbringer has not done.

We have content problems with people who have been playing for years, but a new person who stops playing is no longer a problem with the game, it is the person's problem, especially if this person has not made Ultimates or Savage and especially considering that there is content I still live as Baldesion which involves making full Eureka.

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We do not in any way shape or form need more content like eureka. It was so Divisive. Hated by half to player base (with good reason, it was terrible content) who in their right mind thinks “let’s make content where the player bases gear doesn’t mean anything, they’re item level synced and all they do is fare grind for hours upon end” no thanks, make content appropriate to the current item level so I can use my current gear I’ve earn that isn’t fate grinding over and over again.