Why healing is broken and terrible, and how to fix it...

He lost me at comparing this games healing to WoW which I do not play.
So OP wants healing to be done like WoW? Well, go play WoW? I hate to say it but come on.
Healing isn't broken OP. If people DPS more than they heal WHILE everyone is good on HP
then they're damn good healers then.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Even looking at Wildstar, which follows similar raid schematics to FFXIV/WoW...their top healers are doing about 1/10th the DPS of their top DPS - half of what we're doing here. And that's Redmoon Terror, a raid that guilds have had on farm for a while because Wildstar has such infrequent content updates due to its low population. (It came out almost exactly a year ago, to wit.)

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I bet a lot of those healers are also spellslingers using dual fire, which does both damage and healing and becomes a very useful spell once you obtain the slinger healing RMT rune set. I know that my only damage ability on my esper is Pyrokinetic Flame (a buff spell that attaches to an enemy, creates an aoe damage field around it, and also increases the assault power of those hitting the enemy) and if I feel like it, right clicking the mob. I might be able to do about 1-1.5k dps like this. Meanwhile comparably geared dps can pull upwards of 25-30k dps.

I wish you were wrong about your last paragraph. I hate their stance of draining all the challenge out of this game. I also disagree with the hypothetical that requiring healers to heal more instead of dpsing somehow makes it more difficult. IMO it just makes it more engaging. If I were playing Chloromancer or Discipline Priest, where dealing damage is a key component of my healing, then that would be one thing... but spamming one nuke and a dot spell does not equate to compelling gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

That is a lack of experience issue, sorry.

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When the DPS perform immaculately for the first two bosses so I feel comfortable DPSing, then they suddenly eat every other AoE on the last boss, what "experience" could've helped there?

I read the situation for what it appeared to be and acted accordingly, trying to get the boss down ASAP because I thought I was with a wholly competent group due to how well they played.

It doesn't happen often, but it's still annoying when it does happen, and when it DOESN'T happen, it's equally annoying because I rolled a healer but spend nearly all my time dealing damage instead.

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Also for the other person you are replying to, no it is not broken, it is just a different style.

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Here's the thing...

If RDM was introduced to the game as a DPS, yet was more effective as a healer than as a DPS (and as a result were asked to spend 80% of their time healing instead of dealing damage), RDMs would scream bloody murder, and rightfully so. The DPS forums would be on FIRE with threads saying, "This class says it's a DPS! Why am I a healer?!"

Meanwhile, healers have been doing more DPS than healing since at least 2.0, and no one bats an eyelash.

It'd be one thing if there was a class that healed THROUGH DPS (like two of WoW's healers do) and leveling the class that did that was a choice a player made, but all three healing classes run into the same issue: there's just not much healing that needs to be done (especially when running in a static where people will typically not get hit).

If you don't want to call it "broken", okay, but there are less kind ways of putting it, like how calling these classes "healers" is a bald-faced lie when they spend far more time dealing damage than healing.

If you're a player like me who enjoys playing a healer because you like actual healing, you're SoL in XIV, and I'm not sure why more people aren't at least saying, "Yeah, I it'd be nice to feel like I was doing more in my actual PRIMARY role..."

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Originally Posted by Jybril

So OP wants healing to be done like WoW? Well, go play WoW?

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I want healing in FFXIV to be as fun and engaging as DPSing in FFXIV.

And no, that's not an unreasonable request.

The experience issue in that story is being able to adjust in a fluid matter. However a few things with this, 1. if you are handing our raises left and right you will run out of mp, it is 3600 per cast. At that point the only healer able carry that to extent is whm with the use of thin air raises and that is pretty much 2 raises. It will help to tell me what DF your talking about but atthe end of the day, you cannot make changes to a game because people played badly during an a short period of time. You also got to understand, people's understanding of the different bosses differ, like I still have problems with that port and star boss and have problems with those mechanics while doing my healing. I hate that boss with a passion.

For "Meanwhile, healers have been doing more DPS than healing since at least 2.0, and no one bats an eyelash." Again.. it depends what you talking about, did you play late 2.0 as being a fresh 50? it was PURE HELL! even if you 100% heal, the pulls people did was insane and people would wipe over and over because they did not respect that your gear level was not high enough to deal with it. (then kick you over it) People do not even do those pulls today, and that part of FFXIV history is why DFs have the gates they do.

The thing I worry about is this as well, if you make the game require too much healing, a high number would not be able to handle it. You can see this when you have to adjust pull sizes or carry healers as a healer in 2 healer content like deltascape. So you have to look at the big picture and wonder, will healing be too hard for people nad we have LESS healers queuing or will there be more healers because they do not have to worry about DPS as much? Another thing you got to consider is the skill gaps of healers, tanks , and DPS. If healers are not capable of doing DPS, why should we sit in a DF that takes 30 mins because of low skilled DPS? having respectable DPS as a healer helps move things, but honestly I love to see some small potency increases because losing cleric took away too much DPS. Runs move too slow with bad DPS.

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"RDMs would scream bloody murder, and rightfully so. The DPS forums would be on FIRE with threads saying, "This class says it's a DPS! Why am I a healer?!"

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Yeah that pretty much happened in FFXI though.

So in the end I need ask this, why should healing be the thing that changes because of big skill gaps of DPS and tanks? This is not a healing issue outside not agreeing with the style of high down time > burst healing, your main issue is more inline with the skill gaps DPS and tanks have. If you have 2 good dps and a good tank you will hardly do any healing unless they do bigger then average pulls, because the tank will be able to migrate damage while things die too fast for the tank to take significant damage.

There is also a conflict of prospective here. For me being a healer means best way to support the group, keeping them up, keep things moving. When there is no healing to be done, I dps, means less healing and stuff dies faster, I helped the group more then just standing there.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I want healing in FFXIV to be as fun and engaging as DPSing in FFXIV.

And no, that's not an unreasonable request.

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It kinda is, when 'fun' and 'engaging' is just based off what you feel and not some measurable metric. The idea of just needing to 'heal more than you DPS' sounds like an asinine metric for what would satisfy you on how a role should play out.

And as suggested, if WoW does it the way you like, maybe go play that and don't try to change a game that does it different. Variety is nice.

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Originally Posted by Freyt

To everyone bickering that your side of the argument is the correct side of the argument, you need to settle down and listen for a while. Understanding is the difference between listening and witnessing, and you all aren't doing it. (I mean some are, but don't just assume you are, take a step back and look at yourself you know)

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Way ahead of you, and really I think the OP just wants to play another game. It's a different system, which is why I keep saying to the OP that it's okay not to be good at healing in this game compared to healing in some other game. It's also a system that works with how combat works in the game, so trying to change how healing works would first mean changing how combat works overall in the game. From this perspective, the OP really wants a different game altogether.

Since WoW is being used as an example, I can do that too. In fact, after over a decade in WoW, their system is starting to become more and more like FFXIV, where not only are healers dps'ing more often, but some even healing in dps specs (this happened A LOT when I was tanking). The only difference as far as I can see with WoW's healing compared to FFXIV's healing is that healing in WoW no longer has the added challenge of resource management. To translate for those reading this who haven't played WoW, this would mean that healing in WoW is so mind-numbing that dungeon groups have healers switching to Red Mage just so they can do more damage as Vercure and tank self-healing provides more than enough to get the group through.

Could there be adjustments to the healing system? Perhaps, but not without completely overhauling how combat works entirely, and that's something that players like the OP need to face. Just because it's a disagreeable system does not by any means make it a broken system. Not to mention that this whole argument doesn't really address an actual issue of healing, being that of what healers should be expected to do.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

He lost me at comparing this games healing to WoW which I do not play.
So OP wants healing to be done like WoW?

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Yea if that happens I'll shelf healing in FF. I left WoW behind for many reasons and healing was one of them. The healing system in FF is far from perfect but I much prefer it to WoW.

Honestly the most broken thing about healing in FF is player attitude towards it. Some players have this silly fantasy that healers can pump out huge dps and huge hps at the same time. I have seen healers get scolded for not dpsing enough when a chain pulling tank needed spam healing. We can't do max dps and hps simultaneously. Pick one.

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Originally Posted by Freyt

The reality is left as if you don't know whether a group is going to do well or not, you cannot effectively plan around it. A DPS can simply DPS. A tank can simply tank. Both of these do their jobs simply by doing what they'd be doing regardless, but we can't exactly have healers just mass party healing simply by attacking.

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Agreed, and it's the "rhythm" of how healing works that ultimately makes for this "feast or famine" feeling, leaving us to spend most of our time doing something not in our job description.

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Honestly I like the OP's ideas to fix this. Are they the right solutions? I'm not here to tell you that. What is being discussed here isn't about balance, or the healers role in a fight, but rather the endless debate between players about what a healer should be doing at any given time.

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I just want as many buttons to push as a DPS has, and with the same regularity.

What's strange is that the DPS classes (and to a lesser extent the tanks) are very cleverly designed, with a solid flow, rotation, and encounter balance that always gives them something to do at any given point.

Healers feel like they were an afterthought in comparison. Even the POTENCY of heals feels like it's amped through the roof just to get those annoying HP bars filled up so we can get back to DPSing. :\

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Way ahead of you, and really I think the OP just wants to play another game. It's a different system, which is why I keep saying to the OP that it's okay not to be good at healing in this game compared to healing in some other game. It's also a system that works with how combat works in the game, so trying to change how healing workswould first mean changing how combat works overall in the game. From this perspective, the OP really wants a different game altogether.

Since WoW is being used as an example, I can do that too. In fact, after over a decade in WoW, their system is starting to become more and more like FFXIV, where not only are healers dps'ing more often, but some even healing in dps specs (this happened A LOT when I was tanking). The only difference as far as I can see with WoW's healing compared to FFXIV's healing is that healing in WoW no longer has the added challenge of resource management. To translate for those reading this who haven't played WoW, this would mean that healing in WoW is so mind-numbing that dungeon groups have healers switching to Red Mage just so they can do more damage as Vercure and tank self-healing provides more than enough to get the group through.

Could there be adjustments to the healing system? Perhaps, but not without completely overhauling how combat works entirely, and that's something that players like the OP need to face. Just because it's a disagreeable system does not by any means make it a broken system. Not to mention that this whole argument doesn't really address an actual issue of healing, being that of what healers should be expected to do.

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Yes you can heal in dps specs if you know what you are doing and overgeared. There was a time my sissy got me to over gear at level 68? I think it was. I was tank and she was healer. She would queue as her healer spec, enter, change in DPS, and not only kept us alive, but did a huge amount more DPS then the rest of us, it was insane. Very fun in pvp too, broken af, but fun, doesn't last long because of the exp gains, but it is something different to experience being invincible for a bit. She healed as an elemental shaman for a bit (um.. I guess it would be like healing as a BLM with quicker cast times, for FFXIV)....

"elemental shamans pretty much had one heal, it would be more like RDM having cure II power, so it would be passable if the setup was allowed here with that kind of heal potency"

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Agreed, and it's the "rhythm" of how healing works that ultimately makes for this "feast or famine" feeling, leaving us to spend most of our time doing something not in our job description.



I just want as many buttons to push as a DPS has, and with the same regularity.

What's strange is that the DPS classes (and to a lesser extent the tanks) are very cleverly designed, with a solid flow, rotation, and encounter balance that always gives them something to do at any given point.

Healers feel like they were an afterthought in comparison. Even the POTENCY of heals feels like it's amped through the roof just to get those annoying HP bars filled up so we can get back to DPSing. :\

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"No thanks, I do not want healing rotations like DPS rotations. If that was the case, people will die just because of ogcd clipping issues like what you shown. The servers/game is too slow for such a thing and will leave frustrations without any leeway in timings

If you want super tight rotations give ninja a try. Also I already addressed ' leaving us to spend most of our time doing something not in our job description.' I need to ask something, why is the complaints always revolve around if healers should dps or not and not tanks? If a tank was a tank then it would just have agro holding rotations without doing DPS???? "

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I just want as many buttons to push as a DPS has, and with the same regularity.

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But you can if you dps during healing downtime. Most healers go by ABC: always be casting. It's rare when all they can do is stand around.

The only time I'm just standing around is if things went so south I burned my mana on too many rezzes. A part of my job as a healer is to gauge whether I should rez a downed player or focus on keeping the remaining players up, or possibly rez someone else. It happens.

I'm with Snow Princess on most of her points. Healing in FXIV is tuned to let us DPS, but if you go SO HARD on damage dealing that you can't swap to heals when someone eats it, then you are doing it wrong. That's a sign you haven't learned to manage your resources.

You are supposed to always leave yourself a safety net of MP while going on with DPS, and all three healers have multible methods to regain MP AND turn up the burst heals if they need to hurry. It's just proper CD usage. Thus my opening note. I may need to wait for Swiftcast. I may want to focus on less dead party members. It goes so many ways.

But that constant judging of situations is what Snow Princess is alluding to and something that comes with, you guessed it, experience!

OP just sounds like he never got past the growing pains.

That and letting shit players get to you is never going to help you. You don't owe assholes anything, and if it's SO bad, just leave. Report. Move on.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

So in the end I need ask this, why should healing be the thing that changes because of big skill gaps of DPS and tanks?

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A fair question, with what I feel is a reasonable answer: because the way healing is structured is currently creates a massive chasm in the balancing of raid encounters in XIV.

And I don't say this JUST because of how fast they get cleared, but because of the devs' admission that healer DPS isn't being factored into raid balancing.

Unless they're outright lying about that (which I doubt they'd do), the difficulty curve of raid encounters is going to continue to plummet right at the point where everyone in the raid can dodge the avoidable damage, because right THERE is where the amount of healing healers need to do drops to bare minimum and they can instead turn all that extra mana into DPS.

This is why the developers have themselves in a catch-22: if they design raids with the idea that healers will be DPSing, healers in raids where people are still occasionally taking avoidable damage will suffer horribly. If they continue designing them without the expectation of healer DPS, groups that can avoid all of the avoidable damage will steamroll the encounter because they can meet the DPS checks THAT much quicker.

It all centers around how players take damage in raid encounters. Most damage is either AA to the tank, unavoidable AoE to the whole raid, or avoidable telegraphs.

I respect their decision to add a skill check in that some damage is avoidable, but the flipside of that is that groups who can avoid this damage can essentially trivialize DPS checks, which creates the aforementioned chasm.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I respect their decision to add a skill check in that some damage is avoidable, but the flipside of that is that groups who can avoid this damage can essentially trivialize DPS checks, which creates the aforementioned chasm.

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It's like you have forgotten unavoidable damage exists. There is plenty of it in the game. Avoiding telegraphs doesn't automatically trivialise healing.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

It's a different system, which is why I keep saying to the OP that it's okay not to be good at healing in this game compared to healing in some other game.

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The problem is that I'm way, WAY better at healing in this game than I have any right to be: when I heal, no one dies. I throw a regen on the tank, and I DPS, because I literally have nothing else to do because the game GIVES me nothing else to do.

I'm sorry if you're afraid that the developers might actually make healing in XIV challenging, but I rather have a challenge than be bored out of my skull. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Penthea

It's like you have forgotten unavoidable damage exists. There is plenty of it in the game. Avoiding telegraphs doesn't automatically trivialise healing.

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What portion of healing isn't trivialized by dodging telegraphs is trivialized by the fact that you can bring an entire raid to full in 2-3 GCDs.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

The problem is that I'm way, WAY better at healing in this game than I have any right to be: when I heal, no one dies. I throw a regen on the tank, and I DPS, because I literally have nothing else to do because the game GIVES me nothing else to do.

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...are you complaining that you're too good for the game? lol?

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Originally Posted by Penthea

...are you complaining that you're too good for the game? lol?

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No, I'm complaining that healing is boring and easy, but what's his face there has this idea in his head that me wanting healing to be more challenging and engaging means I must suck at it.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

No, I'm complaining that healing is boring and easy, but what's his face there has this idea in his head that me wanting healing to be more challenging and engaging means I must suck at it.

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What content are you doing? I doubt you're doing top end content with your claims that no one dies when you heal. Or do you mean to say no one dies when the whole team plays well?

Well, long as they just make the savage raids more challenging and requiring healers to heal 90% of the time I don't see anything wrong with just putting out more raidwide damage. Long as they don't touch the rest of the game with it.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

But you can if you dps during healing downtime. Most healers go by ABC: always be casting. It's rare when all they can do is stand around.

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There is zilch fun about spamming a hard-cast nuke and occasionally refreshing a DoT. That's what I do the vast majority of my time as a healer, and that feels horribly wrong.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

It's like you have forgotten unavoidable damage exists. There is plenty of it in the game. Avoiding telegraphs doesn't automatically trivialise healing.

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And the unavoidable damage generally comes in a single, large burst that is recovered from with one, maybe two casts of an AoE spell. Then you're back to being a healer in duty finder role selection only.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

What content are you doing?

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Other games manage to keep healing engaging regardless of content difficulty. We shouldn't have to do the very top content in order to access even slightly more involved healing.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

There is zilch fun about spamming a hard-cast nuke and occasionally refreshing a DoT. That's what I do the vast majority of my time as a healer, and that feels horribly wrong.

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I agree healer dps can be dull but due to the nature of healing healers can't have strict or complex dps rotations. If they did then switching to healing could massively gimp their dps. I don't think anyone should expect healers to have a complex dps system anyway. If you want to play a class that has an interesting dps system...play a dps.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I agree healer dps can be dull but due to the nature of healing healers can't have strict or complex dps rotations. If they did then switching to healing could massively gimp their dps. I don't think anyone should expect healers to have a complex dps system anyway. If you want to play a class that has an interesting dps system...play a dps.

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I agree that our damage rotation shouldn't be complex. However, when it is the thing I'm spending the vast majority of my time doing, I have to wonder why I'm called a healer.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I agree that our damage rotation shouldn't be complex. However, when it is the thing I'm spending the vast majority of my time doing, I have to wonder why I'm called a healer.

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To wit, I actually pulled up my own FFLogs on our recent raid clear this week just to get a better grasp of how many globals I spend healing vs DPSing.

45%. I spend 45% of my time casting a DPS ability in what is supposed to be the hardest content of this game...as a HEALER. Of my healing abilities, a shocking 95% of them are actually just AOE heals, because sustain/spot-healing is a non-existent concept to Square Enix so all I have to do after predictable raid-wide AOE is Helios up or pop Earthly Star. In the interests of fairness, I raid as Noct AST so our WHM keeps a Regen on the MT at all times, but...I feel like tank damage shouldn't be such a non-factor in these fights that they're basically handled simply by tank cooldown usage, instant casts and REGEN.

But seriously. For every 1.1 healing spell I cast, I cast a DPS spell too. That's almost a 1-1 ratio, and I guarantee if I weren't a relatively conservative healer when it comes to progression my DPS casts would actually overtake my healing ones.

If you don't mind, how was the other healer playing, and how much of that 45/55 split was dedicated to card management? I'm genuinely curious how that fell.

AST heals are tuned extra high from having fewer pure heal skills, so I'm curious if the card dependency skews it, or if the WHM was just in main healer mode and made the difference enough that you could spend half the raid in DPS mode.


I think that's a more interesting discussion in regards to why healers DPS so much. Double healers mean we can? Heals are tuned super high? Verses I spend more time mashing the heal button in WoW, why not here, too??

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

If you don't mind, how was the other healer playing, and how much of that 45/55 split was dedicated to card management? I'm genuinely curious how that fell.

AST heals are tuned extra high from having fewer pure heal skills, so I'm curious if the card dependency skews it, or if the WHM was just in main healer mode and made the difference enough that you could spend half the raid in DPS mode.


I think that's a more interesting discussion in regards to why healers DPS so much. Double healers mean we can? Heals are tuned super high? Verses I spend more time mashing the heal button in WoW, why not here, too??

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Our WHM has never really seemed fond of DPSing, though for the fight I pulled for my example (Exdeath), I was actually outhealing her and keeping up on DPS. This is prog, and I tend to pick up mechanics faster, so as our group gets content on farm she'll take over the bulk of the healing and I'll put out even more bongos DPS relative to HPS. For our "farm" clears this week (OS1-3), she outheals me pretty handily, though I come out ahead on DPS.

If you want my opinion on your final question, I do think heals are just plain tuned too high in this game. Solo healing OS4 has already been done, and it's not an uncommon story for pretty much every raid tier we've ever had. My personal suspicion is that both tanking and healing in XIV were made relatively simple so as to not pressure people out of the role, but I don't think the developers really anticipated what sort of effect that would have on players at the higher echelons of skill. They've tried to curb the debate somewhat with their various statements on the subject but the truth is, short of making healing significantly harder at the base level the current situation we're seeing is just what's going to be.

I like discussing it, because I'm passionate about the healers I play in every MMO. But I've also come to terms with the fact that it's not going to change here.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

A fair question, with what I feel is a reasonable answer: because the way healing is structured is currently creates a massive chasm in the balancing of raid encounters in XIV.And I don't say this JUST because of how fast they get cleared, but because of the devs' admission that healer DPS isn't being factored into raid balancing.

Unless they're outright lying about that (which I doubt they'd do), the difficulty curve of raid encounters is going to continue to plummet right at the point where everyone in the raid can dodge the avoidable damage, because right THERE is where the amount of healing healers need to do drops to bare minimum and they can instead turn all that extra mana into DPS.

This is why the developers have themselves in a catch-22: if they design raids with the idea that healers will be DPSing, healers in raids where people are still occasionally taking avoidable damage will suffer horribly. If they continue designing them without the expectation of healer DPS, groups that can avoid all of the avoidable damage will steamroll the encounter because they can meet the DPS checks THAT much quicker.

It all centers around how players take damage in raid encounters. Most damage is either AA to the tank, unavoidable AoE to the whole raid, or avoidable telegraphs.

I respect their decision to add a skill check in that some damage is avoidable, but the flipside of that is that groups who can avoid this damage can essentially trivialize DPS checks, which creates the aforementioned chasm.

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Hmm, missed my point, let me try in a different way.

Tanks do not go Rampart > sentinel > combo action +300 enmity, they go Fast blade > savage blade > Rage of halone, a DPS ROTATION, a tank using a DPS rotation, to tank and deal damage, you use defense CDs as needed. How come you are not complaining about this? and just healing?

My point is, you can't change the game to make it immune for people to play bad, you have to learn to adjust. You are basically saying people play bad so healing is the problem, and that is why people are disagreeing with you. You also seem to need a bit more experence, based how you talk because you can't pinpoint if the true issues you ran into with healing is with:
Overpulling
Overpulling with too low ilevel
DPS not knowing rotations
DPS with too low ilevel
People standing in bad
Tank using CDs
Tank keeping agro? Y/n? (Back in HW I had a PLD in expert who couldn't keep hate off me on a boss despite me using quelling strikes)
Are you using cards/ lightspeed/ earthly star/Aspected Benefic/sleave draw/ Essential Dignity, Synastry, Largesse, and please don't forget there is Time Dilation, lot of ast neglect using it.

Repyling to what you said , even though it is off my point:
If they made savage DPS checks with healing damage accounted, (since they assume something of the likes of 90 ish% max DPS?) no one would be able to clear it. It is calculated on some ilevel people are under on day 1. They get around all that by penta melds and melding in vit on the right. This means the missing damage needs to come from somewhere and they said, if you enter salvage like that, OFC healers need to dps =/

Now I thought you where talking about personal experence in leveling DFs or something, now I am a bit lost what you are trying to get at. My guess the reason you are simply talking about that is because it is a long distance connection to your point healers should be requred heal more...

How about this, you suggest a design, abilities, etc and make a thread on that? The way you made this thread, and as said earlier the reasons you got the reactions you did is simply because you haven't leaned how to completely heal yet, like this post stated:

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

The only time I'm just standing around is if things went so south I burned my mana on too many rezzes. A part of my job as a healer is to gauge whether I should rez a downed player or focus on keeping the remaining players up, or possibly rez someone else. It happens.

I'm with Snow Princess on most of her points. Healing in FXIV is tuned to let us DPS, but if you go SO HARD on damage dealing that you can't swap to heals when someone eats it, then you are doing it wrong. That's a sign you haven't learned to manage your resources.

You are supposed to always leave yourself a safety net of MP while going on with DPS, and all three healers have multible methods to regain MP AND turn up the burst heals if they need to hurry. It's just proper CD usage. Thus my opening note. I may need to wait for Swiftcast. I may want to focus on less dead party members. It goes so many ways.

But that constant judging of situations is what Snow Princess is alluding to and something that comes with, you guessed it, experience!

OP just sounds like he never got past the growing pains.

That and letting shit players get to you is never going to help you. You don't owe assholes anything, and if it's SO bad, just leave. Report. Move on.

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You need to understand (to TC), I am actually not debating you on how healer should be changed, it is more asking examine what you do, how you play, how others are playing and just try get more experience and aware of the situation so you can comment better with more knowledge. You can't even tell me where or more details on the story where you had mp problems because of some unexpected damage taken, what DF where you are in anyway?

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I agree healer dps can be dull but due to the nature of healing healers can't have strict or complex dps rotations. If they did then switching to healing could massively gimp their dps. I don't think anyone should expect healers to have a complex dps system anyway. If you want to play a class that has an interesting dps system...play a dps.

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That is what I was trying to explain to him, you can't make healers have rotations like DPS, that is why I bought up tanks who have DPS rotations. They do DPS rotations while having migration ogcds, not tank holding/migration rotations, despite being a tank. What I mean is you don't do rampart > Sentinel for some combo bonus. To me that is what the tc wants and I said no, try ninja, it might fit his play style more.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

You need to understand (to TC), I am actually not debating you on how healer should be changed, it is more asking examine what you do, how you play, how others are playing and just try get more experience and aware of the situation so you can comment better with more knowledge. You can't even tell me where or more details on the story where you had mp problems because of some unexpected damage taken, what DF where you are in anyway?

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What's funny is now that I think about it, the last instance I had major issues was Shinryu, pre-4.01 SCH buff. My way of managing the fight was to simply not DPS in those seconds I could breath and let my mana refresh. I couldn't afford it beyond keeping up DoTs.

I only mentioned jerks as the OP seems convinced these types of players are so prevalent. They aren't, but taking a no tolerance policy is my stance so I may just be shutting them down so much they can't get started.

I also own up to mistakes, and try to he as pleasant as possible. I've only had to make reports 4 times despite the time I've been around, and I've always mained healer. I honestly think the whole debacle of healers getting ripped into for lack of/too much DPS is vastly overblown, but the forums attract the most vocal players.

In fact, the only instance off the top of my head was the opposite happening. I had a healer (I was DPS on MCH) tell me to eat more attacks as she was bored. She never DPS'd, so I told her to try if she was that bored. She did not take that well, especially since I was Deeps. So I let that go.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

I think that's a more interesting discussion in regards to why healers DPS so much. Double healers mean we can? Heals are tuned super high? Verses I spend more time mashing the heal button in WoW, why not here, too??

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Content is simply undertuned in FFXIV because the devs cater towards the lowest common denominator; not the casual player, but the one who needs everything brain dead easy or they get frustrated. As Lorelei already outlined, even the harder content in the game allows for nearly 1:1 ratio. Elsewhere? You can have upwards of 70-80% DPS uptime as a healer. Unfortunately, the likelihood this ever changes is nil because they either don't realize or simply refuse to acknowledge where the problem lies. Yoshida was incessant healer DPS isn't required, but his expectations and community expectations will never align. He's not wrong. You could clear every piece of content with both healers at precisely zero DPS. Very few raiders will tolerant that in higher level content. And people in general dislike. So... what Yoshida wants doesn't really matter in such a scenario.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I just said it, and I know I'm not alone. :P

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Ah you'll always dig another negative mindset out of the woodwork.

Why healing is broken? What?
Healing in this game is absolutely brilliant, one of the best examples of any mmo.
A pleasure to play, and long may it continue this way.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Ah you'll always dig another negative mindset out of the woodwork.

Why healing is broken? What?
Healing in this game is absolutely brilliant, one of the best examples of any mmo.
A pleasure to play, and long may it continue this way.

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By what metric, exactly? The fact that you can dish out non-insignificant quantities of DPS without struggling to keep a party healed? Or is there some facet of actual healing in XIV that you think is particularly well-done?

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Healing in this game is absolutely brilliant, one of the best examples of any mmo.

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Because you spend more time dpsing than healing...? I'm having a hard time understanding how you could think this is "one of the best examples of any mmo". How do you find spamming dps spells, recovering after raid AoE in just a couple GCDs, and then going back to spamming dps fun and engaging?

The healing spells themselves are almost all rather uninspired as well. Single target heal. Larger single target heal. AoE heal. They rarely interact with each other. There's very little thought that goes into choosing which spell to use (in a raid setting, it's almost ALWAYS going to be the AoE heal). There's little to distinguish the three healing jobs from one another.