A consern about space efficieny since stormblood is not getting enough space increase

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Zitat von Vaer

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4121685

Help is on the way, maybe.

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Well so far we been let down by those " maybes" so this thread is a friendly reminder it is needed, since we been put off for so long throughout HW

A Glamour log/Wardrobe system would resolve a lot of the inventory space issues a lot of people have. Yoshi P has also said that it would be possible to implement such a system as a future project once they are done with finalising the stuff for Stormblood.

The real question.

When am I able to buy four more retainers? I need ten retainers :)

lol

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Zitat von Ama_Hamada

better then what we got, lamo (assuming that game does not have the bloat like we do) and paying once > paying double sub. 2 x 6 month for 6 retainers costs more then that.

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450 slots a paltry 2k gil in-game is what we get without counting the armory chest.

That $90 worth of bags gets you to 210 slots in a game that is known to load players up with useless clutter.

You don't have to pay a dime to get more than their $90 rip off gets you.

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Zitat von Berethos

450 slots a paltry 2k gil in-game is what we get without counting the armory chest.

That $90 worth of bags gets you to 210 slots in a game that is known to load players up with useless clutter.

You don't have to pay a dime to get more than their $90 rip off gets you.

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I do have to say that FFXIV front loads your inventory. Like in the long run WoW has significantly more space than FFXIV, but initially its 450 vs 53 slots lol. Given time, perhaps use of an alt addon, and using their wardrobe you'll vastly outshine the difference but FFXIV does start out with a big pile of slots.

If they added alt mailing (16 retainers, weeee) and a glamour book we'd, thinking off the top of my head, definitely be on top in terms of personal character space. The data issues on housing still exist here but not really else where on similar tier MMOs - also a number of similar tier mmo offer more space and capacity, smaller ones have issues sure but they're also formed on like 1/100th the budget lol.

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Zitat von Shougun

I do have to say that FFXIV front loads your inventory. Like in the long run WoW has significantly more space than FFXIV, but initially its 450 vs 53 slots lol. Given time, perhaps use of an alt addon, and using their wardrobe you'll vastly outshine the difference but FFXIV does start out with a big pile of slots.

If they added alt mailing (16 retainers, weeee) and a glamour book we'd, thinking off the top of my head, definitely be on top in terms of personal character space. The data issues on housing still exist here but not really else where on similar tier MMOs - also a number of similar tier mmo offer more space and capacity, smaller ones have issues sure but they're also formed on like 1/100th the budget lol.

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The thing is though, starting in wow you might start out with less space then ffxiv.. but the thing is.. YOU NEED LESS SPACE IN WOW TOO! you don't have 16 or whatever (since some things share) bettween crafting and gathering while each of those has its own glam, we can get up to 24 sets if you want each job to have its own glam and why ffxiv makes this hard, no idea, to shift though. For wow, its one gear set, and maybe a miner too and fishing pole. There is no currency bloating early on like our beast tribe currencies.

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Zitat von Berethos

450 slots a paltry 2k gil in-game is what we get without counting the armory chest.

That $90 worth of bags gets you to 210 slots in a game that is known to load players up with useless clutter.

You don't have to pay a dime to get more than their $90 rip off gets you.

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I am not sure what you mean but I still say 90 dollars is no where near a rip off then 72 dollars per 6 months, in 1 year you pay more in that game, and I think people are playing more for a year.

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Zitat von Ama_Hamada

I am not sure what you mean but I still say 90 dollars is no where near a rip off then 72 dollars per 6 months, in 1 year you pay more in that game, and I think people are playing more for a year.

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I'll break it down for you then.

In this game, FFXIV, without paying any additional cost - so no extra retainers - and without counting the armory chest inventory, you can have 450 inventory slots at a cost of 2,000 gil. That's incredibly inexpensive - vendor a few items or do a levequest and you've earned enough to pay the one-time fee to unlock the second retainer.

In Neverwinter Online, you have a 30 slot personal bag and spots for 5 additional bags. The biggest bags are 36 slots...and cost $16 to purchase *each* or are super, super expensive if you try and buy them via in-game means. If you buy the 5 bags necessary to max out the inventory you keep with you, you either have to spend a crazy amount of in-game currency or you have to spend around $80 to do so (re-did the math, the $90 was just a tad off). Why is that the case? Buying the bag from the cash shop costs Zen. Zen comes in chunks of 500, 1000, 2000, etc. You could spend $100 and get more than enough to buy the 5 bags (and you may want to, but I'll get to that in a second), or spend $20 four times...enough to get 4 bags and have the 400 extra add up to enough to get the 5th bag.

So $80 minimum to reach this point, and what kind of inventory space does this give you?

A grand total of 210 inventory slots.

$80 to get 210 inventory slots, versus NO REAL MONEY and extremely inexpensive, pocket change level cheap in-game cost to get 450.

You haven't spent a dime in FFXIV and you already have over double the inventory available.

But it doesn't stop there - if you want Bank space in Neverwinter, you need to purchase even more slots with Zen.

The Bank there can be increased to 176 slots after starting at 16 slots. Each increase is another 16 slots and costs 600 Zen...or in real money terms, $6. Again, since you can't buy Zen in $100 chunks, you'll have to buy $10 worth at a time to get this $6 purchase. The least amount you'll need to spend here is $60 to get those additional 170 Bank slots.

The Bank can also have shared slots purchased...8 per 700 zen, or $7 per 8 slots, which can be done a total of 5 times to give you 48 slots of shared inventory space on your account...for $35.

So you've spent at this point $175 to fully unlock your inventory...and how much does all this get you?

434 total inventory slots.

450 in FFXIV for no real money cost and pocket change in-game...or 434 slots for $175 in Neverwinter.

But by all means, if you believe FFXIV is the one ripping you off, who am I to change your mind?

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Zitat von Berethos

I'll break it down for you then.

In this game, FFXIV, without paying any additional cost - so no extra retainers - and without counting the armory chest inventory, you can have 450 inventory slots at a cost of 2,000 gil. That's incredibly inexpensive - vendor a few items or do a levequest and you've earned enough to pay the one-time fee to unlock the second retainer.
In Neverwinter Online, you have a 30 slot personal bag and spots for 5 additional bags. The biggest bags are 36 slots...and cost $16 to purchase *each* or are super, super expensive if you try and buy them via in-game means. If you buy the 5 bags necessary to max out the inventory you keep with you, you either have to spend a crazy amount of in-game currency or you have to spend around $80 to do so (re-did the math, the $90 was just a tad off). Why is that the case? Buying the bag from the cash shop costs Zen. Zen comes in chunks of 500, 1000, 2000, etc. You could spend $100 and get more than enough to buy the 5 bags (and you may want to, but I'll get to that in a second), or spend $20 four times...enough to get 4 bags and have the 400 extra add up to enough to get the 5th bag.

So $80 minimum to reach this point, and what kind of inventory space does this give you?

A grand total of 210 inventory slots.

$80 to get 210 inventory slots, versus NO REAL MONEY and extremely inexpensive, pocket change level cheap in-game cost to get 450.

You haven't spent a dime in FFXIV and you already have over double the inventory available.

But it doesn't stop there - if you want Bank space in Neverwinter, you need to purchase even more slots with Zen.

The Bank there can be increased to 176 slots after starting at 16 slots. Each increase is another 16 slots and costs 600 Zen...or in real money terms, $6. Again, since you can't buy Zen in $100 chunks, you'll have to buy $10 worth at a time to get this $6 purchase. The least amount you'll need to spend here is $60 to get those additional 170 Bank slots.

The Bank can also have shared slots purchased...8 per 700 zen, or $7 per 8 slots, which can be done a total of 5 times to give you 48 slots of shared inventory space on your account...for $35.

So you've spent at this point $175 to fully unlock your inventory...and how much does all this get you?

434 total inventory slots.

450 in FFXIV for no real money cost and pocket change in-game...or 434 slots for $175 in Neverwinter.

But by all means, if you believe FFXIV is the one ripping you off, who am I to change your mind?

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I do not know the game though, like with comparing to wow, on the surface you can easily say ffxiv gives more. However if you look what we need deal with, in gear sets, currency item bloat, and other things, our space is tiny compared to wow's (how much mats does it take to make something, currency bloat, gearsets, etc) and that is not even considering their glam log and other things.

This game feels like it forces you to rent overpriced retainers due to intentional inventory bloat, seasonal stuff (glams, need pull them out or all the countless glams you can't store, if you rare dye something), etc. So I can't comment on those prices because I do not know what it does in the game but 1 time fee> renting while making you need it

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Zitat von Berethos

(Comparison to Neverwinter Online)
450 in FFXIV for no real money cost and pocket change in-game...or 434 slots for $175 in Neverwinter.

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The big difference between FF and Neverwinter Online is that Neverwinter is Free to Play. Those games are notorious for ripping players off and charging a fortune for utilities.

Since we are paying a subscription, I don't think it's right that we have to pay extra for storage on top. I cannot think of any other subscription game that charges for it, and not only are we charged but it's not even a one-off payment, it's a payment every month.
It would be different if there was a way of unlocking extra retainers in-game, or if the storage we get with our sub. was adequate, but it isn't. We have so many items like beast-tribe tokens or weapon tokens that have to stay in our bags and lots of seasonal gear that will not go in the armoire or cannot if you've used a rare dye on it and don't want to lose the colour.
I spend far too much time in this game sorting my bags, mainly throwing out glamour items that I like but can't find room for and crafting materials which I then have to go and gather later, just so I can make space for the things I need right away.

The changes they have announced are welcome but I don't think they go far enough. As I said in an earlier post, another free retainer would help a lot. I may be wrong about this but didn't they promise us another retainer with HW?

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Zitat von Solarra

The big difference between FF and Neverwinter Online is that Neverwinter is Free to Play. Those games are notorious for ripping players off and charging a fortune for utilities.
Since we are paying a subscription, I don't think it's right that we have to pay extra for storage on top. I cannot think of any other subscription game that charges for it, and not only are we charged but it's not even a one-off payment, it's a payment every month.
It would be different if there was a way of unlocking extra retainers in-game, or if the storage we get with our sub. was adequate, but it isn't. We have so many items like beast-tribe tokens or weapon tokens that have to stay in our bags and lots of seasonal gear that will not go in the armoire or cannot if you've used a rare dye on it and don't want to lose the colour.
I spend far too much time in this game sorting my bags, mainly throwing out glamour items that I like but can't find room for and crafting materials which I then have to go and gather later, just so I can make space for the things I need right away.

The changes they have announced are welcome but I don't think they go far enough. As I said in an earlier post, another free retainer would help a lot. I may be wrong about this but didn't they promise us another retainer with HW?

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I do remember hearing something like that, but I am not sure if it was ever confirmed. regardless I think at this point we need 2 more free, we been overpaying too long for space

Once again, A) subscription-based model, B) renting of inventory (instead of a one-time purchase), C) intentional inventory bloat, D) high income high tax analogy and most importantly, E) Even if D) is false, two wrongs don't make a right.

I don't play WoW myself, but when I asked the friends who do and are at end game in WoW, they say they never had any inventory issues at all unlike in FFXIV.

At the end of the day, we are each entitled to our own opinion, though you seem to be kind of alone on your stance at the moment.

I think the "free retainer in HW" thing was more of a player's expectation thing. I was still following the official news pretty closely back then and I can't recall reading that from any official source and was pretty confused by the player's outrage back then .

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Zitat von Solarra

Since we are paying a subscription, I don't think it's right that we have to pay extra for storage on top

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I do actually agree with this on principle...my points have been aimed at claims that we are offered less inventory than these other games when that is demonstrably untrue. The only way they beat us in inventory is through sharing with other characters on an account...

And if you're willing/able to have someone act as a go between you can do that with up to 7 other characters on your account, adding a somewhat easy to obtain 700 extra slots (more if you level them all enough to get retainers).

Also, needing more than a couple retainers is for power users or a problem of your own making, to be honest. You can easily play and keep plenty without having to pay for extra retainers.

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Zitat von Berethos

I do actually agree with this on principle...my points have been aimed at claims that we are offered less inventory than these other games when that is demonstrably untrue. The only way they beat us in inventory is through sharing with other characters on an account...

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You have not proven if they take less items to craft something, have less item bloat and so on. So what you are saying FFXIV giving more space then those other games is untrue just because you are going off on a surface count. We do not get enough space for the item count in this game, and you have yet shown the other games that you need pay for do this.

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Zitat von Ama_Hamada

You have not proven if they take less items to craft something, have less item bloat and so on.

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Do me a favor and google "Neverwinter inventory issues." I think you'll find that enlightening.

Really I shouldn't have to find every example of them doing things like binding some items to you but then having an unbound version and they don't stack (just to tell a minor example). Inventory is noticeably worse in that game and far more expensive to fix, it's really that simple.

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Zitat von Ama_Hamada

11: Beast tribe currency/ any currency that fills space. (or quest items like you need x drop from a fate)
Key item/currency tab. (count all the different currencies in the game including alex parts, all this can be reduced, Those Void ark coins? mico tomestone? gobcoat? gobtwine? totems for mounts, fate items like Proto Ultima Exoplating, heat shielding for weekly) all these fall under as currency. Put them in a currency TAB![/B]

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I feel like they don't need to be added to the currency menu, but I think they could make better use of the key item slots which are rarely used. At most I've had like 10 key items at a time, usually it's closer to 6. that leaves 94 empty unused key item slots, by the current inventory space.

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Zitat von Frysia

I feel like they don't need to be added to the currency menu, but I think they could make better use of the key item slots which are rarely used. At most I've had like 10 key items at a time, usually it's closer to 6. that leaves 94 empty unused key item slots, by the current inventory space.

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There are only 25 actual key item slots, from my understanding. The game just makes it look like 75 when the window gets expanded.

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Zitat von Ama_Hamada

The thing is though, starting in wow you might start out with less space then ffxiv.. but the thing is.. YOU NEED LESS SPACE IN WOW TOO! you don't have 16 or whatever (since some things share) bettween crafting and gathering while each of those has its own glam, we can get up to 24 sets if you want each job to have its own glam and why ffxiv makes this hard, no idea, to shift though. For wow, its one gear set, and maybe a miner too and fishing pole. There is no currency bloating early on like our beast tribe currencies.

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I don't disagree with this logic, I was just suggesting that FFXIV has a much higher start - and before the glamour log in WoW it was less impressive difference (they still had more because of Alts but you did have to log in and out). With the glamour log of course the difference is MASSIVE, if you count every slot in the log as a slot saved then its like 450 vs 5,000+ lol. And as you said for a single character you need less space (in WoW), it feels even larger and it is already larger.

I was trying to allude to this with the housing comment too though, where FF has a fairly good start but issues reaching high into the sky (is too conservative, too safe). Like even with our up coming upgrade via SB FFXIV will have 400 slots (iirc) to place objects in large homes. Meanwhile Wildstar has had 2.5K (thousand) outside, and another 2.5K inside, and then 800 for storage... it's a hilarious difference. GW2 has 2k limit.. Both of these games have no issue with people getting a house (WS is for characters, GW2 is a larger zone for a guild, but each guild can have one and you can be part of 5 guilds at once), and both of these games have much larger areas to work with and more features to fiddle with within the system (mini games, upgrades, clearing out areas with large structure buildings). Which is why I've never really been kind to FFXIV with its housing system, the graphics are /beautiful/ some really awesome decorations, the system itself, especially in comparison to other successful variations, is not that great (imo).

FFXIV has a great bottom for memory, sometimes it seems they have an issue with the top end lol. 450 way more than 53, until oops glamour log and holy crap nevermind it's multiple thousand more lol.

I wasn't suggesting FFXIV was perfect just that until I leveled up a bunch of jobs and beastmen I was like "what inventory limit?" coming from WoW I felt like I would never run out (100 is a bigger bag lol), now of course I'm thinking GIVE ME THE ITEM LOG, I JUST WANT TO MARK THE CHECKBOX! I DONT WANT THE STATS *throws star spangled subligar at random person*

Would like to see something change as well :). I do believe that a glamour log, and making a sexy reputation tracker with currency (take reputation currency out of inventory, add into reputation UI), would solve nearly every single person's problem though. 350 slots dedicated to leveling gear and crafting only, not so bad. Increasing the stack size would take a huge hit on the issue too, but I'm not certain that needs to be done - also 99 is an appealing FF number.. 199 not so much lol. 999 maybe yeah, but that is an extreme change haha.

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Zitat von Berethos

Do me a favor and google "Neverwinter inventory issues." I think you'll find that enlightening.

Really I shouldn't have to find every example of them doing things like binding some items to you but then having an unbound version and they don't stack (just to tell a minor example). Inventory is noticeably worse in that game and far more expensive to fix, it's really that simple.

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And that game is free-to-play according to this link. Also, it still doesn't change nor affect the fact that FFXIV have an inventory issue, or at least what a couple of us here believe and explained.

Let me put it to you this way, if you saw a man get knocked over by a car and broke a leg, are you going to show the unlucky fellow some sympathy or will you walk over and tell him that you saw another man got run over by another car some days back and broke both legs? Cause what you are doing right now is pretty similar.

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Zitat von Berethos

Do me a favor and google "Neverwinter inventory issues." I think you'll find that enlightening.

Really I shouldn't have to find every example of them doing things like binding some items to you but then having an unbound version and they don't stack (just to tell a minor example). Inventory isnoticeably worse in that game and far more expensive to fix, it's really that simple.

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I noticed that Neverwinter Online has tabs within bags that allow for storage of crafting items and a separate tab for quest items within the inventory.

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Sorry, not seeing it. Even if we assume FFXIV is better with inventory then neverwinter, you are comparing a sub based game to a free to play one. If you where to buy max inventory in that game (that last forever), you buy 6 month sub +6 retainers here, that is ridiculous.

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Zitat von Shougun

I don't disagree with this logic, I was just suggesting that FFXIV has a much higher start - and before the glamour log in WoW it was less impressive difference (they still had more because of Alts but you did have to log in and out). With the glamour log of course the difference is MASSIVE, if you count every slot in the log as a slot saved then its like 450 vs 5,000+ lol. And as you said for a single character you need less space (in WoW), it feels even larger and it is already larger.

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When you talk about start, you mean when you start a character and how much space you get right? (kinda can have a different meaning without the first post, so want to make sure) What I was trying to explain, even though FFXIV does have a higher start, you are basically comparing infinity vs infinity, and that is what I was trying to get at. In wow you start out with less, but you are bombarded with much less items. So room wise both have infinity because it is hard to fill unless you are going out of your way to try (though easier to do this in wow when you got your basic bag and hording faded name junk) If a new person does not access the AH/market board yet, in FFXIV the person may not know what is valuable, where wow it tells you, faded name means NPC it, simple.

So that is what I was trying to get across, that FFXIV does not exactly get praise for that either, when you look at the full picture. I know I am getting a lot of support for this thread, but I am just explaining in more detail why this needs to be changed and give Devs more to think about on this issue and why it is so bad.

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Zitat von SokiYagami

And that game is free-to-play according to this link. Also, it still doesn't change nor affect the fact that FFXIV have an inventory issue, or at least what a couple of us here believe and explained.

Let me put it to you this way, if you saw a man get knocked over by a car and broke a leg, are you going to show the unlucky fellow some sympathy or will you walk over and tell him that you saw another man got run over by another car some days back and broke both legs? Cause what you are doing right now is pretty similar.

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Agreed. being less worse does not make it good, lol (assuming ffxiv is less worse and currently I am in disagreement with that too.) as you said it is f2p, so even with all the costs we where told about, that is cheaper then 6 month sub here+6 retainers.

I haven't read the whole forum but I do agree we need more free retainers. It's not going to 'strain the system.' Not if the system can handle the hundreds and hundreds of retainers people are buying. Money is magic, I suppose. The trust is, SE, for quite some time, has become greedy and money hungry with it's FFXIV users.

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Zitat von LittleChickenNugget

I haven't read the whole forum but I do agree we need more free retainers. It's not going to 'strain the system.' Not if the system can handle the hundreds and hundreds of retainers people are buying. Money is magic, I suppose. The trust is, SE, for quite some time, has become greedy and money hungry with it's FFXIV users.

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That logic doesn't really make sense. Unless every player bought extra retainers, giving them away for free is going to increase their total number, and thus increase the strain. Maybe they couldn't handle it if every single person bought a retainer, or maybe they'd have to use the income from said retainers to handle it. Money is indeed "magic" in terms of supporting your servers.

All that said, I actually agree with you, they can probably handle lots more retainers than they do, if they really wanted to. But the fact that they sell rent (lol thanks for the fix) them does not support that view.

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Zitat von Talraen

All that said, I actually agree with you, they can probably handle lots more retainers than they do, if they really wanted to. But the fact that they sell rent them does not support that view.

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Fixed that for you. :p

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Zitat von SokiYagami

I think the "free retainer in HW" thing was more of a player's expectation thing.

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Well, it started with SE saying we'd get more retainers in HW in order to allow for the fact that there would be a big influx of new items with the new expansion (and since their planned inventory expansion wasn't going to be ready in time). The player expectation that those new retainers would be available in-game rather than through the Mog Station seemed justifiable, since SE themselves indicated the reason for adding them is that they'd be needed in order to deal with the higher item requirements.

A lot of people were rather upset when we found out the only thing they were expanding was the maximum number of extra retainers we could get at $2 per month each. Acknowledging them as essentially necessary to keep playing the game while not including them with our subscription seemed pretty underhanded for a subscription game.

So with what we've been told so far, Stormblood is at least a step above Heavensward. They are giving us some extra inventory this time around. But it's barely covering what we should have gotten two years ago. What we really need at this point is a glamour log, a tackle box, and currencies moved to the currency window. (There are a number of other things that could help as well, but those three are probably the biggest ones.)

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Zitat von Talraen

That logic doesn't really make sense. Unless every player bought extra retainers, giving them away for free is going to increase their total number, and thus increase the strain. Maybe they couldn't handle it if every single person bought a retainer, or maybe they'd have to use the income from said retainers to handle it. Money is indeed "magic" in terms of supporting your servers.
All that said, I actually agree with you, they can probably handle lots more retainers than they do, if they really wanted to. But the fact that they sell them does not support that view.

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Yeah we really need to find out why they cost so much. At release it was just 2 dollars each per month and only 2, for 2.0 that was more then enough so I may have a view, well that is just for luxury and convenience for being able sell more. Now we are at the point "renting 2" is required and renting 6 people are still strained, so we need to ask why do they cost that now? Was this an oversight because they where simply doing that pricing since 2.0 and did not bother to analyze it again? Or is there a different reason?

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Zitat von Niwashi

Well, it started with SE saying we'd get more retainers in HW in order to allow for the fact that there would be a big influx of new items with the new expansion (and since their planned inventory expansion wasn't going to be ready in time). The player expectation that those new retainers would be available in-game rather than through the Mog Station seemed justifiable, since SE themselves indicated the reason for adding them is that they'd be needed in order to deal with the higher item requirements.

A lot of people were rather upset when we found out the only thing they were expanding was the maximum number of extra retainers we could get at $2 per month each. Acknowledging them as essentially necessary to keep playing the game while not including them with our subscription seemed pretty underhanded for a subscription game.

So with what we've been told so far, Stormblood is at least a step above Heavensward. They are giving us some extra inventory this time around. But it's barely covering what we should have gotten two years ago. What we really need at this point is a glamour log, a tackle box, and currencies moved to the currency window. (There are a number of other things that could help as well, but those three are probably the biggest ones.)

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again that is the point of this thread, we have been ripped off and still are with the news so far with the cost of inventory and doing little to fix the bloating. I was too, but I was not able to come on the forums then. So now I am being outspoken because we been needing this addressed for 2 years and soon to be 2 expansions.

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Zitat von Ama_Hamada

Yeah we really need to find out why they cost so much. At release it was just 2 dollars each per month and only 2, for 2.0 that was more then enough so I may have a view, well that is just for luxury and convenience for being able sell more. Now we are at the point "renting 2" is required and renting 6 people are still strained, so we need to ask why do they cost that now? Was this an oversight because they where simply doing that pricing since 2.0 and did not bother to analyze it again? Or is there a different reason?

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My assumption is that they cost that much because people pay for them. If they gave away a free retainer, they'd presumably lose income. While some people may still get the same number of extra retainers, giving one away for free isn't likely to result in anyone spending money on more. So until and unless the outcry is such that Square Enix believes they are losing enough people that charging for retainers is a net loss, I don't expect them to change their thinking here.

Whether it's "necessary" probably doesn't enter into it.

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Zitat von Ama_Hamada

Sorry, not seeing it. Even if we assume FFXIV is better with inventory then neverwinter, you are comparing a sub based game to a free to play one. If you where to buy max inventory in that game (that last forever), you buy 6 month sub +6 retainers here, that is ridiculous.

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I'm comparing them because you said, and I quote "better than what we got."

If you can't see that you get less permanent slots than you get in FFXIV (when only counting permanent slots) for a whopping $175?

That's all on you.

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Zitat von Berethos

I'm comparing them because you said, and I quote "better than what we got."

If you can't see that you get less permanent slots than you get in FFXIV (when only counting permanent slots) for a whopping $175?


That's all on you.

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It is not on me, no.
You are not understanding we have to deal with so meany items, why I do not know.

If a game gives you a million items, but 1000 spots to put them in, has less room then a game that gives you 1000 items total with 200 spots to put them in. You are missing my point. You are just going by what you see on the surface (amount of space) and not comparing it to the amount of space we get compared to the amount we need to function. We do not have enough space to function and you have yet to show other games that do this. We are given too much currency that takes room, does Neverwinter do this? if not then we have more problems then there. Not that hard to figure out. Do we get crafting bags and other things that Neverwinter does? better off then FFXIV then.

Also the cost of our space cost more then that game maxing, then 6 retainers here and sub for 6 months, only 6 months cost more then forever on Neverwinter.

huh 175? you said 80 something +6 or something i doono even if that is the case still less then a year sub here +6 retainers for a year. (somewhere around 264 for non-legacy)

https://i.gyazo.com/227baf86e635ff01...a92c79c1f2.png

This is just one menu off one NPC, look at all these different currencies that give item bloat for no reason.

Or this:
https://i.gyazo.com/9dbfc7003ac853c6...e433a2e1d5.png

still under one menu of one NPC.

It is ridiculous, the amount of space is taken up by currency just currency and we do not get crafting bags and other bags to help deal with this? Then we need rent space on top of a sub? talk about ripoff. Needing 99 items for a mount? forcing you use space. Makes it even more insult when you need trade items for currency to get OTHER CURRENCY!

Also do not forget the currency we do get under tabs adds to this problem, the caps we get.

Want to upgrade tools? need to hold on a currency for a minimum of 1 week sitting in inventory that lasts for ever since it never splits evenly.
Want to hunt to upgrade your gear? good thing we have a cap of 1k cent seals so you need to hold on the L.books to do that, to upgrade the right/belt, it takes 2x over cap and left is 3 x over cap.
72 umberite? nice that we need a currency cap where we need 6 x more, that currency needs sit in our inventory for a loooong time.
https://i.gyazo.com/33aaf1bd9764e1f7...70dcb028fd.png
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Zitat von Ama_Hamada

14. Increase our currency cap:
If you insist of keeping us bloated, at least increase all our caps, for example cent seals should cap at 4k, like allied seals, so we have room after getting enough 6 L books (3k cost) to upgrade something. Having the ability to streamline item use would help. This also means 1000 red script cap, 500 is way too small, along with 11000 lore cap so we have the ability to buy all the umbrite we need at once.

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I think another way of dealing with the armory inventory bloat, would be to make class specific gear scale to your characters level, starting with the quest gear you get at 40/45. I have so much lower level gear because I haven't leveled every class to 60 yet, so I keep it for the ones I haven't leveled, and it ends up taking up sooo much space.

Just ignore Berethos. It's clear that he is running out of facts to counter our stand. He has been ignoring the points that we had been raising a couple of times and just sticking to the raw inventory count in FFXIV.

I was thinking the other day that I kinda wish the armory chests could be class specific. Like if I'm playing an alt class like MNK, it would make it much easier to find the gear that I need if I didnt have to rifle through all the tank, healer, and ninja gear I have. Obviously we could keep an all-encompassing armory chest, but expand it by more than what it currently is. And maybe have a separate class-specific armory chest for equipping gear that is specific to the class you are currently playing. This was just kinda off the top of my head when I was pondering this issue the other day. Thoughts?

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Zitat von whiteblade89

I was thinking the other day that I kinda wish the armory chests could be class specific. Like if I'm playing an alt class like MNK, it would make it much easier to find the gear that I need if I didnt have to rifle through all the tank, healer, and ninja gear I have. Obviously we could keep an all-encompassing armory chest, but expand it by more than what it currently is. And maybe have a separate class-specific armory chest for equipping gear that is specific to the class you are currently playing. This was just kinda off the top of my head when I was pondering this issue the other day. Thoughts?

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What about the right side though? MNK, LNC, and sometimes tanks in limited amounts can use STR right stuff.

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Zitat von Ama_Hamada

What about the right side though? MNK, LNC, and sometimes tanks in limited amounts can use STR right stuff.

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That's a good point. I've never used slaying accessories as a tank before, but I know a portion of the community does. I suppose the accessories could be exempt from the class-specific armory considering that any class can equip them. I guess they'd have to start making acc class-specific as well for the idea to work. Which might upset a portion of the tanking community. They could always make it to where you can only see the equipment that would benefit your class, but maybe choose to turn that option off? Not sure. Just my two cents. But I agree with you. Inventory is a problem and I don't think an additional 40 slots or however many they're adding is going to help much.

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Zitat von whiteblade89

That's a good point. I've never used slaying accessories as a tank before, but I know a portion of the community does. I suppose the accessories could be exempt from the class-specific armory considering that any class can equip them. I guess they'd have to start making acc class-specific as well for the idea to work. Which might upset a portion of the tanking community. They could always make it to where you can only see the equipment that would benefit your class, but maybe choose to turn that option off? Not sure. Just my two cents. But I agree with you. Inventory is a problem and I don't think an additional 40 slots or however many they're adding is going to help much.

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Healers in PvP opt in a vew vit accs too Reason for this has to do with OP DPS bursts, to help you live though it, and melee lb since it might as well be a range attack

I'd really just rather see most gear become multi-class, so you don't have to buy a "of striking", "of scouting", "of aiming" for the same damn armor class while tanks, casters, and healers are all-in-one. I could understand Dragoon being its own thing some of the time if there'd just been another mail class added between plate and leather, but the scouting/striking differences, when STR and DEX are both identically just raw Attack Power? Make most gear redyable by default as well.

There you go, now you need significantly fewer slots for glamour.

Apart from that, I'd love to find some way to facilitate the space requirements for crafting and gathering that isn't just throwing more shit UI retainers at us. For instance:

• Being able to request (/ provide) or purchase (/ sell) a larger range of materials from guilds and guild affiliates for dynamic prices, given in either general (gil) or guild (favor, basically) currency.
• Being able to build up additional friendships, favors, rivalries, etc., with guild-mate NPCs.
• Being able to meet up with said friendly NPC at various locations or ask them to bring you things. (They will soon appear at the/a chosen/relevant location for you.)
• Can use crafting tables, wherein a small bank of materials are constantly accessible (no extra clicks), and the tasks (and allotments, if any) are shown to everyone using the table, so that different people can process the raw goods, bring more raw goods over, process the intermediate goods, or finish the items.
• Can assign your retainer crafting jobs from your table, and either can easily add his/her items to the table top or treat his/her entire bank as part of the table top.
• Having your retainer or a friendly NPC hold onto, auto-buy at guild rates (gil or favors), or send the good to a relevant guild where it's reserved for you and available any time you're near a guild affiliate, storage area, or leve-giver. (Extra free crafting/gathering bank that does not require the extra clicks that a retainer would.)

If any of the above works, you might do the same for combat guilds, allowing for NPC friendships/favors, and maybe some cross-over in the sense of being able to draw in certain loot from guild missions, leave bulletins requesting certain drops, take on small guild missions (somewhere between quests and leves?), and by which to purchase items via favor currency, etc., and perhaps trade in old items (or gift them to certain NPCs) or provide weapons for your guild from your own crafting.

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Zitat von Shurrikhan

I'd really just rather see most gear become multi-class, so you don't have to buy a "of striking", "of scouting", "of aiming" for the same damn armor class while tanks, casters, and healers are all-in-one. I could understand Dragoon being its own thing some of the time if there'd just been another mail class added between plate and leather, but the scouting/striking differences, when STR and DEX are both identically just raw Attack Power? Make most gear redyable by default as well.

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I don't see why they don't do that already. I mean, yes Artifact gear needs to be unique to the job, but in general, gear by role would seem to be a far more efficient way to dole out gear, and would potentially free up some designer's time to work on the smaller, but more detailed, number of job specific gearsets.

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Zitat von Shurrikhan

I'd really just rather see most gear become multi-class, so you don't have to buy a "of striking", "of scouting", "of aiming" for the same damn armor class while tanks

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I'd really rather not sacrifice armor appearance variation - especially as I still hold out hope for a more comprehensive glamour system. xD

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Zitat von Kosmos992k

I don't see why they don't do that already. I mean, yes Artifact gear needs to be unique to the job, but in general, gear by role would seem to be a far more efficient way to dole out gear, and would potentially free up some designer's time to work on the smaller, but more detailed, number of job specific gearsets.

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Because 1 set of 270 gear etc and the fact different classes use secondaries differently, and no one wants parry.
I want to be able to have each job have its own glam and I have 2 friends that do this, both having all 60s, (well one is all 60s and short PLD, but both have a different glam set for each job)

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Zitat von Naunet

I'd really rather not sacrifice armor appearance variation - especially as I still hold out hope for a more comprehensive glamour system. xD

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In theory you would still see the same amount of class special appearance gear. But generic tomestones or leveling sets would all be the same. Also could mean they use special designs for crafters. It would free up time to put glamours else where.

Also when we talk about upgrade item X or currency X. They can gate that stuff through a weekly turn in or rep or some wonderful design that I can't think of. Oh no X player has 5000 beast tokens from 2.0. He still needs to get to X rep with the new tribe. They can also make the items unsellable. Also like the custom deliveries no mats needed just a vendor close by. Scrip turn ins and Grand company turn ins could learn a thing or two. No space needed to save when space is an issue. Upgrade items if it is such a big deal to lock players out, lock them out with a weekly npc. I have 500 upgrade items. Oh no he will have a full i270 set on day one. Or they could just have the npc take the one token once a week/day whatever the gate they have imposed.

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Zitat von Naunet

I'd really rather not sacrifice armor appearance variation - especially as I still hold out hope for a more comprehensive glamour system. xD

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There's no need to sacrifice anything though. From the start, make dungeon gear dyeable. There, you've now got the likeness of the striking/scouting or scouting/aiming distinction in most cases. But atop that, allow for variations of each set. You can have your Noct fending with its silly little shoulder additions, your Dreadwyrm or Creator sets with their buttwings, or not. Similarly, where Scouting, Striking, and Aiming did vary before, you can have a version with the half-cloak added over the side (where that's the only difference between, say, Midas Striking and Aiming), throw a cloak over the whole thing (Creator striking vs. scouting) etc. Same item, quickly swapped appearances. Unless a more comprehensive glamour system also includes cross-class glamours, I feel like that'd add a fair bit more freedom than any glamour revision, and would reduce the item count despite that.

In the end, it just turns into a question of whether you want to farm 4-5 items (caster-cloth, healer-cloth, melee-leather, ranged-leather, tank-plate, melee-mail), or 7 (tank, healer, caster, ranged; monk, ninja, dragoon). The appearances don't have to be any part of that decision unless you want to cry imbalance if one roll ends up having an extra appearance available than another.

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Zitat von Ama_Hamada

Because 1 set of 270 gear etc and the fact different classes use secondaries differently, and no one wants parry.

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Except a piece of gear doesn't necessarily need to have the same stats when equipped by one job as when equipped by another. It's been the case thus far, but there's no reason why matched stats should be impossible.
Alternatively, they could balance their secondary stats a bit so it isn't always "Crit is god, except to BLM, where it is merely king"...
Also, isn't there a larger issue with crossing armor classes in the first place than secondaries? Even if we were to move the added Stamina modifier from the fending gear to the tank classes themselves, we'd still be looking at increased defense on the Fending left-side gear.

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Zitat von Ama_Hamada

I want to be able to have each job have its own glam and I have 2 friends that do this, both having all 60s, (well one is all 60s and short PLD, bot both have a different glam set for each job)

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Ideally, I would think that each glamours should always be applied to the slot, not the gear itself, and on a job-by-job (or class, apart from SCH/SMN) basis. Each job should have, say, 3 images available to each of its slots, with 3 glamour "sets" available for quick swapping/matching. Glamour prisms are consumed to add an item to the bank of 3 images per gear slot per job, or, if those slots are already full, to replace another image. By default, any other images saved on any other job that your current job meets the level and class or job requirements for will be shown in your image slots. (Swap from a glamoured level 40 Warrior to a newly gained Paladin and it's no problem; you'd immediately see the applicable (even if incomplete) sets from you warrior in addition to your native/unglamoured set/look.) Moreover whenever you spirit-bind an item, you have the option via a right-click (notification once out of combat following the spirit-bind) to save its image to your glamour bank (replacing another image if the bank is full).

If that doesn't give crafters enough to do, then additionally charge a generic mirage prism that any crafter can make (99 stacks ftw) each time you swap sets, rather than having actual on-the-fly freedom to swap between up to 3 images per slot per job, wherein sets are just a convenient function in the same way physical gear sets are now.

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Zitat von Shurrikhan

There's no need to sacrifice anything though. From the start, make dungeon gear dyeable. There, you've now got the likeness of the striking/scouting or scouting/aiming distinction in most cases. But atop that, allow for variations of each set. You can have your Noct fending with its silly little shoulder additions, your Dreadwyrm or Creator sets with their buttwings, or not. Similarly, where Scouting, Striking, and Aiming did vary before, you can have a version with the half-cloak added over the side (where that's the only difference between, say, Midas Striking and Aiming), throw a cloak over the whole thing (Creator striking vs. scouting) etc. Same item, quickly swapped appearances. Unless a more comprehensive glamour system also includes cross-class glamours, I feel like that'd add a fair bit more freedom than any glamour revision, and would reduce the item count despite that.

In the end, it just turns into a question of whether you want to farm 4-5 items (caster-cloth, healer-cloth, melee-leather, ranged-leather, tank-plate, melee-mail), or 7 (tank, healer, caster, ranged; monk, ninja, dragoon). The appearances don't have to be any part of that decision unless you want to cry imbalance if one roll ends up having an extra appearance available than another.



Except a piece of gear doesn't necessarily need to have the same stats when equipped by one job as when equipped by another. It's been the case thus far, but there's no reason why matched stats should be impossible.
Alternatively, they could balance their secondary stats a bit so it isn't always "Crit is god, except to BLM, where it is merely king"...
Also, isn't there a larger issue with crossing armor classes in the first place than secondaries? Even if we were to move the added Stamina modifier from the fending gear to the tank classes themselves, we'd still be looking at increased defense on the Fending left-side gear.



Ideally, I would think that each glamours should always be applied to the slot, not the gear itself, and on a job-by-job (or class, apart from SCH/SMN) basis. Each job should have, say, 3 images available to each of its slots, with 3 glamour "sets" available for quick swapping/matching. Glamour prisms are consumed to add an item to the bank of 3 images per gear slot per job, or, if those slots are already full, to replace another image. By default, any other images saved on any other job that your current job meets the level and class or job requirements for will be shown in your image slots. (Swap from a glamoured level 40 Warrior to a newly gained Paladin and it's no problem; you'd immediately see the applicable (even if incomplete) sets from you warrior in addition to your native/unglamoured set/look.) Moreover whenever you spirit-bind an item, you have the option via a right-click (notification once out of combat following the spirit-bind) to save its image to your glamour bank (replacing another image if the bank is full).

If that doesn't give crafters enough to do, then additionally charge a generic mirage prism that any crafter can make (99 stacks ftw) each time you swap sets, rather than having actual on-the-fly freedom to swap between up to 3 images per slot per job, wherein sets are just a convenient function in the same way physical gear sets are now.

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That would be nice if they can do that.

Adding your post as 8.c