PAX 2017 : Request the next new Job

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Originally Posted by AdventZero

Looking into Mystic Knight from past FF games what you say does make a lot of sense, tank does fit it better.

The main idea of my suggestion of making it a DPS was based on something from RUN in FFXI. Gambit, which lowered a monsters magic DEF based on the element of the runes you had up. And Lunge, which dealt magical damage based on the runes you had up. Combine the two and you could deal some really high damage to a mob. I then borrowed the RDM concept from here, FFXIV, and flipped it around so that instead of being a mage with powerful melee finishers it was now a melee with powerful magic finishers.

The knight theme was from my frustration at how poorly SE has done with PLD in this game. Non-kingdom origin and lore, almost no holy powers, boring and plot-hole filled pointless quest twice in a row, and the weakest tank since 1.0 to present, add that so far the only known tank overhauls are removing 2-3 of our actions and making them general "tank" skills so the other tanks don't need to level PLD anymore and I've pretty much reached my limit of putting up with being kicked in the dirt all the time. So I wanted to infuse this "melee-mage" with a bit of real "noble holy knight" for a change. So I kind of stuck the "Rune Fencer" name on it since it was the only FF name I knew that might work as a knight style melee-mage, and used things like Dragons Dogma to support the idea even more. Though I ended up being wrong. ^^;

The only way I see this working out for both of us is if "Mystic Knight" is tank using classic FF move sets like you want. And "Rune Knight" is a completely different job using the melee-mage move set I want. Though, we both know SE would never have enough time/man power to pull that off. xD Most likely outcome, if they do add a Mystic/Rune Knight, is the tank theme since we have enough DPS as is. All the same I still feel a bit better at least saying what I want, even if I'll never get it, then keeping quiet and just getting more and more frustrated about it.

Oh, and thank you for being civil, it's a bit rare on these forums. Good luck to the both of us, that we may both get what we want in some way or form. ^^

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I actually agree a whole ton with you, especially why paladin has to burn bones of undead and raise the dead to kill it for holy powers, or kill other paladins in later quest, or have a job stone that devours every other one like the highlander series to be the one. Worst part is the locale and sultansworn type lore wouldve fit a non retconned m knight probably a lot easier, though my hopes now lie in 5.0 if thavnair becomes a focus point, which i hope it does.
I like your idea of seperating the two, i just think what will most likely happen is if they do look into it theyll probably merge both the ideas into a single complete job, as you stated, ill be rooting for either side, i love the base concept of the job and however they decide to implement it, ill be fine playing it

Another thing to note, it appears that they may have left out en-spells from redmage, which became its thing in 11 i believe, which at least leads me to hope they may in fact integrate it to another job. Well what i mean is that what weve seen en-spelling doesnt really look like it will be the rdm's focus, but we dont really know its skill set yet.
Great conversation about this idea!

Mimi's Top Six Most Wanted Jobs (In order of what I want the most):

1. Dancer (Healer or DPS)
2. Puppetmaster (DPS)
3. Juggler (DPS)
4. Necromancer (Healer or DPS)
5. Beastmaster (Tank or DPS)
6. Morpher (DPS)

General things I would like to see

• More Pet Jobs
• A Whip Wielding Job
• A Dual-Wielding Gun Job
• A Tank that isn't just the standard Meat Shield
• A Dark-themed Healer

Tank with a War Hammer

Blue Mage or something like that and use a Great Scythe

DANCER AS A DON'T Care do it right and I will switch my main.

Geomancer please! Would love to see a class that can summon trees, summon lava, and a class that finally cast earthquake :O

for tank im more up for a really cool theme class, like templar with lance and shield, or shogun with a diferent weapon, or please a judge.

meaby its me but i saw most of the ppl (bcs i dont check all) how ask for beast master tank are dps, like "we dont want this job soooo for tanks" bcs i dont see any coment asking for a beastmaster dps when the DPS comunity want everything be dps whit surprise me.

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Originally Posted by shao32

for tank im more up for a really cool theme class, like templar with lance and shield, or shogun with a diferent weapon, or please a judge.

meaby its me but i saw most of the ppl (bcs i dont check all) how ask for beast master tank are dps, like "we dont want this job soooo for tanks" bcs i dont see any coment asking for a beastmaster dps when the DPS comunity want everything be dps whit surprise me.

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They want the tank queues without having to tank(see mah behemoth tanks the mobs i just crack em with a whip)

I really doubt beast master can ever be tank. Their gimmick is to use pets, and to have a tank use a pet for defensive skills or for the pet to actualy be the tank is not a good idea. The only way that beast master can be a tank is that it does not use a pet, which goes away from what a beast master is.

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Originally Posted by Yin111

I really doubt beast master can ever be tank. Their gimmick is to use pets, and to have a tank use a pet for defensive skills or for the pet to actualy be the tank is not a good idea. The only way that beast master can be a tank is that it does not use a pet, which goes away from what a beast master is.

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I tried tanking with titan egi in potd with a non tank party, it wasnt so easy due to how pet actions and response time is. Im sure if they really wanted to tweak the ai, itd be possible, but itd also be the laziest tank job ever, with the pet doing its own actions with megaton multipliers and constant splash aoes to ensure it holds hate all of the time. Of course im not the greatest smn or sch by far, but i see where pet ai would need a massive overhaul to pull this off, let alone commanding the pull ahead of time and having it know to stop and aoe before it loses hate immediately contacting the mob and loose wingmen.

I would love Tank Jobs to finally get something that is not a Sword user as a Tank because it feels like Warrior is only there to give players something not a Sword Job as Tank so they can continue making more Sword Jobs as Tanks and have players just say "Go Play Warrior then" as a excluse for not introducing new Tank Jobs that use a new type of weapon that is not a Sword.

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Originally Posted by shao32

maybe it's me, but I saw most of the people (bcs i dont check all) who ask for Beastmaster tank are dps, like "we don't want this job soooo for tanks" because I don't see any comments asking for a Beastmaster DPS when the DPS comunity want everything be DPS which surprises me.

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Speaking for myself, I think BST would accomplish two things as a tank.

First would be offering a new way of tanking, or offer something different enough from PLD/WAR/DRK that it'll stand out. In the past, I've suggested that BST's "tank stance" would be them riding their pet into battle, and your skills would change into attacks from your pet. Your max HP and defense/magic defense would also be combined with that of your pet. When off-tanking you'd hop off your pet, allowing you and your pet to fight separate from each other.

Second, it would offer a different aesthetic for tanking. Not everyone wants to be a guy in plate armor, which is what WAR, PLD and DRK are.

With the addition of Red Mage, I'm not sure exactly what I want now. Everything else just seems a bit boring. I've seen suggestions but truth be told, most are covered. Here's my issues:

Blue Mage: Sounds cool in theory. Learn enemy skills like White Wind and such. But lets be honest. Every 5 (so 55, 60, 65, 70) levels you'll get a quest to go into a duty to get blasted in the face to learn a skill. Once 70 and finished the last quest you're not really learning new skills. Unless they give you an ability to temporarily learn a new skill from a target enemy. But even still, you're using a set of unique abilities, that might be good enough.

Dancer: I kinda like this one. The Stormblood teaser shows a girl in red that looks alot like a dancer. I see this as a class similar to Monks with some buffs and debuffs. I really really wish we had 5 or 6 man groups, or rather 8 man even being the norm. This would allow for the 4th role of support which this class would really shine. Otherwise it'd be another DPS class similar to the Monk. I've seen some say it'd be a healing one. Maybe could work, comboing heals and such.

Oracle: This one seems like its covered by Scholar.

Calculator: This one seems to be covered by Astrologian or vice versa with what I said about Oracle.

Necromancer: Summoner has the dots covered.

Geomancer: This is kinda covered by Conjurers and sort of suffers from the same issues as Blue Mage. Quest give you different elements but unless they have an ability that matches the local element. But then its just a X potency attack that changes look depending on where you are. Might be fine though. But we're losing the 'essence' of what makes these things what they are this way.

Now this doesn't mean I think they shouldn't add those classes. They just have to overcome said problems which in many cases could be quite easy. And in some cases what we get might be different than what we expect like Summoner's spell set. IIRC players were hooting and hollering for nearly a year after 2.0 came out about them. So we might have to be prepared to press the I believe button when we get something a little different.

Here's what I'd like to see. Weapon types that look cool, unique, and of course fit within the lore of the game. That's opens quite a few possibilities. Some have suggested a Gunblade class, as we'll be in Garlemeld at some point. This one makes since. Give that class some Roman/Latin sounding name, all imperial and shtuff. Another one I think would be interesting is a dual weilding pistol class. Can call it Privateer or somesuch to make it official sounding. Right out of Limsa.

Got some other weapons out there too. Maces, Flails, Hammers, Whips, and even Crossbows. But lets shy away from Bells. That was.. weird.. in what game was it? V maybe III? I like what they did with Harps, made them part of the relic bow. Didn't make too much sense, but it was better than stringing a harp to make notes hit something.

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Originally Posted by Yin111

I really doubt beast master can ever be tank. Their gimmick is to use pets, and to have a tank use a pet for defensive skills or for the pet to actualy be the tank is not a good idea. The only way that beast master can be a tank is that it does not use a pet, which goes away from what a beast master is.

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Devil's Advocate here. Shadowknights in Everquest were tanks with pets. In the beginning the pets were basically weaker Necromancer pets. Then evolved into their own thing. Very very useful tools if used properly (detriments to those who used them improperly). So to say a tank can't use pets is inaccurate.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

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sounds like a chocobo knight for me but instead of ride a chocobois meaby a tiger or a bear, a tank how her dps stance summon a beast, and cant be big or sumoners go to complay about they tiny egis.

about aesthetic is pretty relative, tanks can wear almost all the current glamour are not tie to a especific class, you can be the robe or bikini tank or the fully plate one, adding BST as tank dont go to offer anything new on that department except they change how all tanks shared gear something i think never go to happen, and if they add BST with they own gear alone that can just add more problems that solutions, in the end its just glamour and we can change it.

Geomancer doesn't have to use the current terrain to be useful in XIV. That's how it worked in other FFs but that's not how it has to work in XIV. Many classes in XIV don't work how they did in other games. Most of them don't.
The only requirements for geomancer is that it uses magic not available to other mages like weather (they could use cyclones, waves, lava, trees, earthquake, float, sandstorm, gales, snowstorm, etc)

The only 2 jobs that wear unique armor are NIN (Scouting) and DRG (Maiming). Every other job shares gear. Therefore, a new job like THF or BST (could use Swallows/Thief Swords like Zidane) to share with Scouting gear. Then we could get Viking/Berserker that could have dual hatchets and share Maiming gear with DRG.

Pet Tank could be interesting if implemented properly. Or heck, let's just say it, what about a "Stand" like tank, where their main arm is a "Synchro Orb" and the whole gimmick is it allows them to call upon the spirit within them to tank for them, while the user might be physically weak, their mental strength allows them to fend off powerful strikes against them. <_< And for fun the tank would do poses that cause the spirit to act rather than actual engage the monster themselves.

Healer, I would like to see a Chemist like healer, using mixtures combined with aether to create/hold different healing spells. So they could prepare different concoctions but preparing them reduces their max MP so it would be about knowing which concoctions would be needed for the situation while managing MP to use maybe instant spells that rely on TP to use as well. So while a Chemist wouldn't have a "casting bar" for any "spells" they would be limited by their TP, so if they spammed to hard and ran out of TP, their ability to heal quickly would be lost. Chemist "weapon" would be a "vial belt" with a variety of different looking vials and colors to depict the different type of attacks/heals they could perform. They wouldn't throw the vial but rather pop it open spray it out with their right hand then use the aether in their left hand to activate the concoction effect.

Yes I realize he said to wait til after Stormblood's release but considering people were clamoring for Samurai and Red Mage long before that I think it's ok to clamor for other ones, especially if they're not covered by the roles introduced into 4.0 aka DPS roles.

I've been wanting a Beastmaster tank for awhile. It would be cool to include 1H Axes and war clubs into a role too.

New Healer job PLEASE!! ^_^ I love the ideas that have been thrown out for Chemist and Dancer!! All for that. Any new healer job would be great. I hope for dancer so I can have some cute new armor, but Chemist would be totally fun! I'm thinking like Rikku in FFX with her Mix overdrive ability! I think that'll be fun, but without the whole actually using your own stuff. Haha.

As for DPS I'd love a new Caster job! Time Mage I think would be super fun! Or if they added more Space & Time stuff to AST I'd love it even more. I love Gravity and I want a Gravity II and III !!! Also Stella needs to be reworked because its BEAUTIFUL but USELESS!!!!!!! GRRR

Finally, I REALLY want them to do something with Thief! That was my go to job in EVERY RPG! And though I LOVE NIN! I hate that Thief/Rouge is practically nonexistent and under utilized :( I absolutely loved the Rouge quest line.

And now I'm rambling. Anyways, I hope they do good on their word to rework old jobs! And I look forward to new jobs. Bummed that the two coming out are sword based, never really cared for that, but I know people have been clamoring for a real sword based DPS job! I totally look forward to Red Mage though because MAGIC

TANK: 1st choice: BLUE MAGE 2nd: BERSERKER

HEALER: 1st choice: DANCER 2nd: CHEMIST

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Devil's Advocate here. Shadowknights in Everquest were tanks with pets. In the beginning the pets were basically weaker Necromancer pets. Then evolved into their own thing. Very very useful tools if used properly (detriments to those who used them improperly). So to say a tank can't use pets is inaccurate.

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I do not know what Devi'ls Advocate means, but it is incorrect to use an example from another game to use in XIV. XIV runs very diffrently from the Everqust at it's core. While it might work in Everquest the ressult would be completly diffrent if implemented in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Yin111

I do not know what Devi'ls Advocate means, but it is incorrect to use an example from another game to use in XIV. XIV runs very diffrently from the Everqust at it's core. While it might work in Everquest the ressult would be completly diffrent if implemented in XIV.

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To "Play the Devil's Advocate" means to say something that will start a debate or argument.

And to say that we can't use examples from other games in XIV makes no sense, seeing as that's what we are doing when we ask for jobs from other, non-MMORPG-FF games. :B
I don't think they are asking for a carbon-copy of Shadowknights from Everquest, they are just using it as an example of what kind of jobs they would like to see added.

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Originally Posted by Yin111

I do not know what Devi'ls Advocate means, but it is incorrect to use an example from another game to use in XIV. XIV runs very diffrently from the Everqust at it's core. While it might work in Everquest the ressult would be completly diffrent if implemented in XIV.

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It really doesn't.

The algorithms are slightly different determining what stat does what. But the basic system of target this, us skill, something happens is the same in both games. I could take the Warrior job for example, give it a pet, reduce the potency of some of its combo actions, increase enmity generation to compensate, then apply that damage loss as potency attacks to a pet and call it a tanking pet class.

I'd dare say its easier to balance in FFXIV than EQ's system of making pets mobs with their own stats independent of the caster. I'm actually halfway agreeing with you that the systems are a little different. SE made it more modular in FFXIV than 989 Studios (Verant/SOE/Daybreak) did with EQ.

So you're right, its easier.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

It really doesn't.

The algorithms are slightly different determining what stat does what. But the basic system of target this, us skill, something happens is the same in both games. I could take the Warrior job for example, give it a pet, reduce the potency of some of its combo actions, increase enmity

So you're right, its easier.

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So you think it would work, how exactly did shadow knights work their pet, in a sense that works with xiv? I played vanilla everquest for aout a day so i was not even aware that shadowknights branched out to pet user tank job/class. I just remember sitting around re learning spells after killing a few rats.

Im serious here i just want to know how it worked in EQ i never played the game besides that one time.

Jobs I would like to see.

Tank: Judge - think of one of the guys from FF12. Give them magicite skills as well.
DPS: Painter - FF6's Relm could paint enemies and use their skill. More interesting and probably colourful than Blue Mage at least.
Healer: Crystalist - Uses the power of crystals, possibly shards taken from the primal crystals?

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

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Wording may have been incorrect so I will try to be more clear. When talking about a system in a different game, it must be thought around in how it would possibly work in XIV. Disscussing non-MMORPG-FF game jobs, to be introduced, is not a false logical leap. Since implementing a job means to give it a theme, a rotation and its utility that is iconic to the job. It is to build it from scrath and fit it to the current balance.

But when discussing a system or gimmick from another game, and saying that, "if that game can do it, XIV can to." it would be hard or not viable to do. Systems and gimmicks are vastly diffrent across games, time and effort would need to be invested heavly to change our current system to get something from another game. Followed by small scale testing by te battle teams. Ultimitly if the change was made and the system fails. It would mean time and effort was wasted and make the dev team look bad.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

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Everything you said is heavy generalization. It sound ok, but when implemented does not follow well. Pet in XIV are dots with some support actions. You could give a Tank a pet, reduce the tanks damage and give it to the pet. But that would ultimatly make the tank undesierable to the balance. XIV pet, does not do spetacler damage compared to a player. If the pet is a DOT, does not tank or soak damage for tank, then it is best utalized as a DPS job where the said job have actions that wil boost the pet marginaly.

Ultimatly, the job can not be underpowered like Knight, needs to have defense comparable to other tanks, but the pet damage can not excced that of a turret or egi. The job also need utility to add to the raid, the pet can not use such utility as the AI will fire the skill imidiently. At the same time, the tank must not be stressed in manageing both the pet's targeting, skills, surviability, and the party's survivability.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

So you think it would work, how exactly did shadow knights work their pet, in a sense that works with xiv? I played vanilla everquest for aout a day so i was not even aware that shadowknights branched out to pet user tank job/class. I just remember sitting around re learning spells after killing a few rats.

Im serious here i just want to know how it worked in EQ i never played the game besides that one time.

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I'm going to have to give you the 1999-2005 timeline of their use. I'm pretty sure things changed from 2006-2017 with new AAs and the like. But pretty much the pet was a persistent DoT. It attacked whatever attacked the SK or whatever the SK sent it after.

Savvy players learned that they could use it to pull mobs with so they didn't get more than one group on them. Really savvy players learned they could use Feign Death in a weird combination (I used to play a necromancer and could do the same thing, but for the life of me I forgot the procedure on how to do it) to pull single mobs from groups without using lulling spells.

Later they could sacrifice the pet for extra health or use it as a center for AOEing spells.

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Originally Posted by Yin111

Everything you said is heavy generalization.

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I did that on purpose as I'm not trying to make a new class here. Just show a rough example. Anyway one way a tank pet could work is something along the lines of -insert theme here- thing that draws agro to itself and basically tanks. Its HP limits how long it will last and when it expires, the threat transfers to the user. The benefit is the HP acted like a 'barrier' meaning the tank didn't need healing for as long as the pet was up. The pet doesn't even have to be mobile, if they want to make it a crystal, banner, or whatever.

In this example, the pet doesn't even have to do damage. Just a provoking/taunt effect that holds agro on it long enough to take a hit or two to die/withdraw. Again depending on theme.

Personally I would have any pet that a tank uses to be something that doesn't have 100% uptime. Last thing a tank needs is to manage two characters all the time. That way a rotation involving a pet reminds fluid and intuitive. That's just my personal take though, others may be fine with it.

The great thing about FFXIV is its potency system and modularity. It makes adding new themes (jobs/classes/abilities) really easy and only limited by imaginations. The hardest part is making it fun and interesting.

I'd go for a Gunblade wielder tank when the expansion where we hit Garlemard comes, since the gunblades looks like the iconic Garlean weapon (every high-rank Garlean commander wields one of them or a variant). I'd like to call it Legatus but, since that's a militar rank and there are lower rank soldier with said weapon, SE would have to pull a new name for it. Maybe something Garlean-ish. It'd be something fresh, regarding jobs.

Also, Salve-Maker would be an interesting concept, but it'd need some thinking to differenciate it from the alchemist and to make him have his signature ability, Mix, since originallty it combined items from inventory to create many diverse effects, and that'd create a conflict between game fantasy and gameplay.

DPS: Thief!
Support: Dancer
Tank: something that wields staves or poles

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

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The skill you described sounds more like the ultimate survival skill for tanks, like Invincibility, Holmgang or Livivng dead. That being said, if utalized that way, probibly should make it so the NPC in qustion has more defense for 10 seconds to survive big pulls or a tank buster from raids.

XIV creating jobs are easy, limited only to imagination, most assurly I think they will always be fun, but the most difficult part is fitting it into the balance. While the JP community can work with what come out no problem, the West commnity would have an out cry screaming it is ruining the balance and demand a fix in some way. Yoshida does caters to the west players, and would end up changing the role's ability around. I think what Yoshida want, is to create a job with as little potentel for an out cry againts its abilitys. Which would be the most difficult part of creating a job.

am i the only one who want geomancer to be a thing?

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Originally Posted by Kyrrios

am i the only one who want geomancer to be a thing?

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Its class fantasy is kind of merged in WHM and CNJ already, since they already comune with elements. Plus, elemental spells would be a bit hard to introduce since most of the elements them are present in both WHM and BLM (plus classes) spells, making it hard for the Geomancers to have unique spells. A bell wielding class that causes eartshakes and tsunamis would be interesting though.

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Originally Posted by shao32

sounds like a chocobo knight for me but instead of ride a chocobois meaby a tiger or a bear, a tank how her dps stance summon a beast, and cant be big or sumoners go to complay about they tiny egis.

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Well, Chocobo Knight is already in the game, as a title that was translated as "Cavalier" in the NA version of the game. If you switch the client to JP, the title becomes "Choco Knight", which is what Chocobo Knight is called in Japanese.

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about aesthetic is pretty relative, tanks can wear almost all the current glamour are not tie to a especific class, you can be the robe or bikini tank or the fully plate one, adding BST as tank dont go to offer anything new on that department except they change how all tanks shared gear something i think never go to happen, and if they add BST with they own gear alone that can just add more problems that solutions, in the end its just glamour and we can change it.

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Aesthetic is determined in part by the artifact armor, and yes, to a lesser extent available gear.

There are ways to make this work. Yes, one of the ways would be to give BST its own gear set (Adamantite Hauberk of Guarding). Another would be to give it gear used by another job. The "of Maiming" sets would be a way to do it, by having BST on their own have similar defenses to a DRG, and when they mount their pet they get the damage penalty customary to tank stances in exchange for increased enmity generation, higher defenses, and higher HP.

The second approach would involve different scaling and probably some stat conversions. I wouldn't want a BST to be as strong as a DRG despite sharing gear with them. Scaling with stats would have to be lower to compensate, so that a BST on their own would be dealing less damage than a DRG with the same equipment, since the BST has to take into account pet DPS.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Blue Mage

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Here's a suggestion I've made in the past for BLU. I still think it's a solid approach and a compromise to having to learn enemy skills.

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Dancer

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As I've argued in the past, Dancer would actually make a decent tank if we went the Stagger route that WoW's Monk class took. It doesn't have to be a carbon copy of Stagger, but it does prove that it's possible to build a tank out of a class that wears light armor. Incidentally, I did a suggestion for that too.

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Oracle: This one seems like its covered by Scholar.

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Oracle would have to be re-defined. It was a one-shot job from FF Tactics, so there's plenty of room to work with. I'd focus on the duality of the job concept (the JP name of the job has been translated as Ying-Yang Mage) and take it from there. *cough*

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Calculator

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I personally don't think this one would work without tapping into other mage classes you've leveled, like it worked in FFT.

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Necromancer: Summoner has the dots covered.

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Necromancer doesn't need to be about DoTs.

This is one I haven't typed anything up for, but I see it as a job that steals fragments of their enemies' souls to bring doll/puppet minions to "life". Sort of like, you start with just you, but have a skill that deals some damage and generates soul shards. Soul Shards can be used to then animate a puppet minion that deals damage to the mob. The combat model would be that you'd start out dealing low damage by yourself but can then start raising a small army of minions, ramping up your outgoing DPS. I'd have to sit down and do a full write up for this, but that's the general idea.

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Geomancer

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This one I see as a job that focuses on primal elements and weather. It'd be a caster job that can hurl lava at their enemies but also summon thunderstorms and strong gales to deal with enemies. One idea I had was that they would be able to summon a storm cloud that hovers over the mob, and then use certain skills that cause the cloud to do things, like a downpour of rain that reduces movement speed, or zap the mob with lightning. In addition to using stuff like Quake, causing lava geysers to raise from the ground, and having auras that buff allies but at the expense of "locking" your access to certain attacks (like a fire aura that increases damage dealt but prevents you from using your magma attacks).

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Originally Posted by Kyrrios

am i the only one who want geomancer to be a thing?

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Of course not, it's one of my favorite FF jobs. Its just not as iconic as others (most of which are already in XIV, so...).

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Originally Posted by BokoToloko

Its class fantasy is kind of merged in WHM and CNJ already, since they already comune with elements. Plus, elemental spells would be a bit hard to introduce since most of the elements them are present in both WHM and BLM (plus classes) spells, making it hard for the Geomancers to have unique spells.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

This one I see as a job that focuses on primal elements and weather.

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Whenever Geomancer comes up I see these types of responses and it's not entirely true. Yes, Geomancers have been associated with elemental spells in several renditions, but that's not their "end-all" modus operandi. Geomancers are more literally associated with feng shui; and yes, often times earth/nature is involved for the job. Their trademark weapon is a bell to ward off negative energy and create positive energy and there's probably some inspiration from buddhist bells in the design as well.

In any case, I think concerns of a Geomancer ever making an appearance in XIV and impinging on Conjurer/White-and-Blackmages lore/identity are easily put to rest since if anything, Geomancer has a lot of elbow room to be designed into something not quite done yet. A lot of inspiration could be taken from how they functioned in XI and Explorers, using field zone effects (heck, they were a support melee class in Explorers with little to no "ground/weather elemental spells" to speak of). Really, Geomancer seems like one of the least pigeonholed prospective jobs having several design liberties with feng shui being open to the dev's interpretation. The only real hurdle I could think of is taking out the overly supportive/enfeebling nature they've been known to have to fit XIV's trinity.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Yes, Geomancers have been associated with elemental spells in several renditions, but that's not their "end-all" modus operandi. Geomancers are more literally associated with feng shui; and yes, often times earth/nature is involved for the job. Their trademark weapon is a bell to ward off negative energy and create positive energy and there's probably some inspiration from buddhist bells in the design as well.

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While this may be the case, the job is better remembered for what it could do in FFV and FF Tactics, where it had elemental attacks determined by what terrain you were fighting on.

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A lot of inspiration could be taken from how they functioned in XI and Explorers

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XI's GEO was basically a walking buff/debuff totem with a horribly contrived "face a different direction for varying effects" gimmick. XI's combat was slow enough that you could sort of get away with how GEO was implemented (nevermind that it became mandatory because of the nature of its buffs, which is something we want to avoid here), but that wouldn't fly in this game.

The only thing that I can see working from Explorers would be something based on Traps, but that would lose a lot of use in raid fights. It's also not enough to build a job around.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

As I've argued in the past, Dancer would actually make a decent tank if we went the Stagger route that WoW's Monk class took.

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Oh my god, the forum would just explose ! I would be soooooooo fun xD

Not my idea but I'de like an alchemist like Rikku's limit in 10 (or the job in 10-2), would work like the ninja but with more combinaison and could become a real support, buffing and debuffing specialist :D
http://www.ffexodus.com/ffx2/images/dresspheres/a.jpg

But prettier armor please ^^"

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Originally Posted by Duelle

While this may be the case, the job is better remembered for what it could do in FFV and FF Tactics, where it had elemental attacks determined by what terrain you were fighting on.

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This is true, because when brought up, a lot of people want to associate Geomancers with "spell is based on terrain/weather" which is where the idea that they couldn't work well in an MMO setting might stem from. However, if XIV's Summoner, Scholar, Bard, Astrologian and I suspect possibly Red mage are anything to go by, what you best remember the job for can be changed/omitted to suit the game balance's immediate needs, with only aesthetic details barely upholding its "identity." Who's to say a XIV Geomancer wouldn't get weather and/or terrain flair in their abilities; only for it to mean nothing as far as element/resistances go?

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XI's GEO was basically a walking buff/debuff totem with a horribly contrived "face a different direction for varying effects" gimmick. XI's combat was slow enough that you could sort of get away with how GEO was implemented (nevermind that it became mandatory because of the nature of its buffs, which is something we want to avoid here), but that wouldn't fly in this game.

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Oh, of course it wouldn't. A lot of XI's job gimmicks would never work in this game. Inspiration loosely meaning for light example, a totem/turret/whatever is dropped via Sacred Soil, Flaming Arrow, Asylum, etc. that has a different effect pending the direction the player was facing upon activation. Or even inspiration in the fact that it as a job went against the "terrain = attack affinity" grain and did other things with it.

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The only thing that I can see working from Explorers would be something based on Traps, but that would lose a lot of use in raid fights. It's also not enough to build a job around.

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Well Geomancer wasn't only about traps in Explorers. It could create either a buffing or debuffing AoE zone where certain abilities gained different boosts if used within the corresponding zone. IMO its a start to build a job around if there needs to to be decisions about which floor field to set down, not unlike BRDs choosing which song to have up, which fairy a SCH uses, etc. I'm not saying it has to be totem/turret/field job, but the connection/framework is there from past iterations. No actual terrain necessary.

Reading some of these ideas has been pretty fun, but I feel like I'm alone in wishing that rather than adding new jobs with 5.0, they'd give certain ones a total overhaul instead, like SMN and AST. I mean, I guess if thst could come in TANDEM with new jobs that would be okay, but I think some jobs we have right now either seriously missed the mark with their identity (SMN, and to some extent the ACN contributions to SCH), or were just really poorly implemented balance-wise (AST trying to copy WHM and SCH means it will forever be a huge pain to adjust).

I'd love a Chemist healer though, possibly moreso than DNC. It'd be kind of cute if instead of an MP pool they had a "potion inventory" resource mechanic instead, though I know that would be difficult to piece together with respect to how Promotion/Mage's Ballad functions. And of course, "combining" potions could be a unique cooldown that front loads smaller heals for a bigger one, or maybe even random support effects similar to AST cards.

If I had to only choose one though, I'd rather get AST and SMN re-designed, haha.

i like to see Time Mage focus on buff and debuff, i know i know time mage skills already spread across different jobs in FFXIV, but i still hold my tiniest hope
i like to see Geomancer too, but I have no idea how it could implement in FFXIV, and like Time Mage their skills kind spread accross in WHM/BLM in FFXIV already
an Orator healer will be fun too, will be focus more on buff and debuff, giving speech to improve def/dmg, insulting your enemy to debuff, but the issue are, there are many non-sentient species in FFXIV...
Taoist/Onmyoshi heal would be fun too

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Who's to say a XIV Geomancer wouldn't get weather and/or terrain flair in their abilities; only for it to mean nothing as far as element/resistances go?

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This is not much of a question, because at least to me, the obvious route would be to make the elements react to each other. One way would be to focus the design around ability cycles based on the two elemental wheels seen in 1.0. In short, your skills only deal the intended damage when used within those cycles, with a sort of overlap between the two cycles.

Another way of doing it would be abilities manipulating the mob's elemental affinity, but only for your own abilities. So if you were to cast Quake on a mob, that mob would take more damage from water elemental spells cast by you for a set time.

This would be in addition to using your storm cloud to do things on top of knowing when to use your auras (that, as mentioned, lock access to certain skills when active, which is a hefty penalty). Closest analog I could point to is WoW's elemental shaman, just with more synergy between spells.