Got kicked from The Aetherochemical Research Facility by mentor

The community is quite cancer. I see too many incidents happen using the DF over such trivial stupidity.

Free ride as in: people who don't try/care he didn't mean people who aren't super proficient.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

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If none of the many sites, some of which explain every little detail about every little mechanic and have extremely simplified explanations of rotations don't do the job for you, I'm truly sorry. You have the opportunity to practice your rotation on dummies any time you like though. Use it. If endless practice and guides don't do the job for you, the game explaining the same things for you through quests or whatever wouldn't either.

I don't know what to say in that case. You either aren't capable of understanding your class/job or dungeon or you aren't all that interested in understanding.

As for youtube videos, there are plenty geared towards people of every experience level. Mr. Happy for example explains in substantial detail what mechanics in dungeons do if you fail them, what you should do as a player to avoid failing them, etc. There aren't many rotation guides on Youtube, but written and pictorial guides are superior for that and are everywhere if you take the time to look.

Under max level, your leveling experience should provide your "guide". If you've been leveling off fates without practicing your rotations properly once in a while, that's your own fault. Take responsibility for it. Brand new skills have tooltips and potencies listed. Take the time to learn how to use them properly. If you don't that's on you.

I actually play black mage more than any other job and had little trouble with Enochian in duties when I first got it. Why? Because I figured out how to use it from practicing on dummies first. Using it when having to follow mechanics is different, but establishing how to use it in the first place goes a long way and still ensures you won't be dead weight. People should at least learn the basics before regularly doing content with a group that relies on you to do your job.

Using the past to justify actions in the present is silly. People have access to more information now. What does it matter what people had back in 2000? This is 2017.

Hopeless, no. Frustrating, yes. I want people to contribute, for the good of the group, instead of being selfish and lazy. Making mistakes because you're still learning but obviously show the basic skills needed is one thing, being an experienced level 60 and pulling DPS typical of a level 50, idling, or being afraid to pull more mobs despite things being too easy is another. If I see people are being that way, I may start joining in now. No point in devoting my full attention to the game if no one else is.

Any dungeon will involve you and 3 other people using time in your days to do something. There is no excuse for depriving your group of a useful party member. If you're making more mistakes than you're doing things right, it might be time to reevaluate how you're playing.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

The community is quite cancer. I see too many incidents happen using the DF over such trivial stupidity.

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I really can't agree with that. I've heard of more problems after a week of reading the forums than I've seen in over 600 instance runs of varying types.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

I really can't agree with that. I've heard of more problems after a week of reading the forums than I've seen in over 600 instance runs of varying types.

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Think at it as some sort of sanatorium, you cannot tell the health of a population visiting just its hospital.

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Originally Posted by SilkaN

Actually, if it's my first time doing content, I look it up on Youtube to know what awaits me and to not slow down my party members.
There is no excuse for players who do not look up content and then write stuff like "anything to watch out for?".
Naturally, this does not apply to new content.

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I personally don't look up much in the way of content guides before queueing.
I also don't expect the people who I get paired with to explain them to me when I do so.

Just the other night my sister and I queued into antitower, iirc, for the story quests.
Neither of us had done it before, neither of us looked anything up.
We cleared it just fine with no advice given.

I usually go with the tried and true plan of...

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Because this is a social game. You don't need to write paragraphs about strategy, just a simple "make sure you kill the adds, and avoid the AOEs".

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"Kill the adds, and try not to stand in the stupid."

There are a couple of places where that's not what you want to do, Tam Tara hard comes to mind.
But that's about all I've needed for most encounters I've come across for the basics.

Anything else hasn't been too difficult to figure out on the fly.

I dont like the duty finder recently. People aren't as fun, or kind as they were before. I've noticed a big change in people lately.

Well, I'll continue to be kid and thoughtful :)

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Originally Posted by Adire

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if u ask me everyone should just start to ignore guides and youtube videos!!

Start to use your own brain instead XD
Adapt to the situation XD
Be open to new tactics , flow with the water :P and have ur current partys setup in mind :P
Away with META's and such, instead PLAY with your team!
or does someone expect a DF to be flawless and fast even with first timers ?? I think you just forgot how it is to be new no ? ^^

P.S. : im pretty sure one can learn content better doing it themselfs then trying to follow youtube videos....

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

The community is quite cancer. I see too many incidents happen using the DF over such trivial stupidity.

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I hate to break it to you, but there is no heaven on this planet, least of all on the internet.
The community as a whole is normal.

Some things a mentor should not have to explain or ask in a dungeon at 60.
- Your rotation (research your class, ask friends, google, ask in novice, ask in FC)
- Avoid AOES
- Why are you missing X action at 60?
- Turn when you see the red eye
- kill adds when they spawn during a fight (People will soon say ignore if they are irrelevant)
- Large scale pulls or at the very least, others seeing you increase your pull size throughout the dungeon.
- Wrong gear for class or over inflated ilvl
- Why are you not contributing more via dps stance or clerics?
- Share damage marker if you have already come across it i.e Dun Scaith when you have already seen it in Weeping and Void.

I'm sorry but if any of these are causing wipes etc then be prepared to potentially get kicked.

Some irrelevant to Aetherchemical but still happens all the time in other dungeons/trials.

As for the community being cancer I think it is very mild compared to other places. Although I never found Asura bad on FFXI even though it was supposed to be the cesspit server.

[QUOTE=Adire;4056210]That's why people should take things into their own hands and look up guides and such, and practice outside of dungeons if they're a dps. If people don't have the desire to look up guides on how to not be complete dead weight in a dungeon, these same people likely wouldn't do much better even if the game taught them.

Normally I try to carry bad players, but I'm almost at the point where I'm ready to just afk auto attack and enjoy some Youtube in the meantime whenever one or both of the dps are terrible, the healer is standing around doing nothing 90% of the time, or the tank is pulling every pack slowly even when small ones are clearly too easy for them.[/QUOTE

Half the players dont do this. They just expect to do their own thing and people SAY OK THATS GOOD.

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

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You clearly didn't read my post(s) as I explained learning through experience is the most quality way to learn. But watching/reading guides is being prepared. You owe that to the other people in your group at least.

And I really don't think avoiding guides and "adapting" is good advice considering how many times people wipe even after guides and running content for the millionth time and how many level 60s lack a basic understanding of their role/job or simply don't care. You can be prepared and still be adaptive anyway.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I dont like the duty finder recently. People aren't as fun, or kind as they were before. I've noticed a big change in people lately.

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Yep, something happened. Time ago the jerks were just happening every now and then, but today I get them nine times out of ten.
It maybe toxicity spreading and good people become toxic to be "accepted"? Who knows.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Yep, something happened. Time ago the jerks were just happening every now and then, but today I get them nine times out of ten.
It maybe toxicity spreading and good people become toxic to be "accepted"? Who knows.

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DF isnt that abd in JP or EU datac entre
there are @ss in JP/EU but usually encounter 1 out of 100
usually i found in DF ppl are considerate, e.g. the tank is new to the dung, dont see ppl force him/her to do big pull, or when heal is new to the dung i see the tank will do less pull to reduce stress
what toxicated is the forum, the in game community generally are good

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Originally Posted by Watachy

So hum don't wanna be rude but you seems to be the kind of person i don't like much in DF.

Ok you're new to something, i can understand you wanna do it slowly and safely to achieve the run.
But why wouldn't you try what people are telling you to do ? Just give it a try, ain't working ? Go back slow and small pulls, no problem.

If im healing those dungeons and my tank ain't pull much i would, politely, ask him to do so.
Why ? Because im confident enough in my abilities to keep the party alive and that will just faster the run for everyone, you included.

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LOL! Here's your douche player material right here. Welcome to the new FFXIV community. Basically 'I don't want you to play your job the way you want to, I want you to play it like I want you to'. Why? Because that's what every other person does. Superb! What a class act....

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

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- Your rotation (research your class, ask friends, google, ask in novice, ask in FC)
so 3/5 of those equate to 'ask a mentor' the other two shouldn't be mandatory to play a game adequately
- Why are you missing X action at 60?
Once again for cross classes they're never really explained well, maybe no one in dungeons up to 60 told them they should get these cross class skills, because they got shitty mentors before now.
- Large scale pulls or at the very least, others seeing you increase your pull size throughout the dungeon.
an attempt at maybe, but for your first run not a huge issue
- Why are you not contributing more via dps stance or clerics?
again, very easy to get to 60 without having to use either of these (well tank DPS stances anyway, cleric i'll give you as it's explained in HotN)

Removed stuff i agree with cos char limit, but if you don't want to help people improve, why even be a mentor?

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Originally Posted by Adire

You clearly didn't read my post(s) as I explained learning through experience is the most quality way to learn. But watching/reading guides is being prepared. You owe that to the other people in your group at least.

And I really don't think avoiding guides and "adapting" is good advice considering how many times people wipe even after guides and running content for the millionth time and how many level 60s lack a basic understanding of their role/job or simply don't care. You can be prepared and still be adaptive anyway.

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u dont say :P

maybe u never heard of stuff like : being tired and missing a mechanic XD

yes yes i know its annoying if someone isnt concentrated coz of rl issues , i guess u must be a robot and never make mistakes urself :P
or when u get a new person coz u have done the dungeon 9999 times alrdy , but it still dosnt give u the right , to make some new player spoil themselfs with guides ^^

still the worst u can do is to freak out , its always better to either shut up or motivate people :P

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

DF isnt that abd in JP or EU datac entre
there are @ss in JP/EU but usually encounter 1 out of 100
usually i found in DF ppl are considerate, e.g. the tank is new to the dung, dont see ppl force him/her to do big pull, or when heal is new to the dung i see the tank will do lesspull to reduce stress
what toxicated is the forum, the in game community generally are good

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Back to back runs in The Aetherochemical Research Facility for my friend where insanely toxic to her by 2 different premade groups. One was bashing her for healing because the let regen drop for a second. For both, both had weak Aoe damage. One had a MCH refusing to use AoE while the other had a bard undergeared for megapulls. She simply asked to have smaller pulls at first, they refused and asked her to explain why (both runs) so when she did they jumped on her ( the brd is ok you should deal with the healing) while the other was mocking her that so in so had a 275 relic all because the MCH will not aoe? it did not make sense and she pointed that out as well to them "having a 275 relic does not mean you know how to play MCH" Then of course they left (and during the run the war spoke for the MCH and the MCH never said a word, made her feel like it was some duel box) without her explaining how she hot shot >Grenado Shot till tp is 500, use Invigorate, use a few more then spread shot if the stuff seems like ill be alive for too long because of tp costs.

It is annoying to see mnk and .. i guess mch now? never aoe because they think it is useless. I do get needing to rotate every once in a while depending on tp but... never using it?????

In the end why harass a healer when they simply request to pull a bit less????? the game community has been insanely toxic as of late, esp on the weekends.

I think it was about a week ago? not sure but pretty recent, where my friend was on mch on Alexander and the tank MPKed her. The reason they did this to her is because earlier, they kept feign pulling after a ready check (look like they go pull it then back off) then finally when it truly looked like they where gonna pull, she starts hitting her buffs like normal, then her rotation. They let her die and yelled at her for pulling, wiped due to lack of DPS on the DPS check, leading to her waiting to kick that tank but couldn't because the 5 mins did not expire yet. So in the next attempt she got the stack marker, went near them as best she could near alex, only her other friend stacked with her, then the tank turned it on the one being griefed and MPKed her.

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- Your rotation (research your class, ask friends, google, ask in novice, ask in FC)
so 3/5 of those equate to 'ask a mentor' the other two shouldn't be mandatory to play a game adequately

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Like I said you should research before going into a dungeon. Now if someone stops and says you should be doing it this way in a dungeon, then take it on board and go look it up after.

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- Why are you missing X action at 60?
Once again for cross classes they're never really explained well, maybe no one in dungeons up to 60 told them they should get these cross class skills, because they got shitty mentors before now.

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Same again research, you say it doesn't explain that you need X cross class skills, yet you needed one of those classes to 15 to unlock the job. I'm sorry but that is a clue, so again look up what the skills do, ask friends etc prior to going in to a dungeon.

Also not all mentors have every class levelled so maybe they are not aware what cross class skills someone needs in a party. Yet there is plenty of mentors with the same class as them, I know a high amount will come and check your rotation if you asked them (well on my server anyway).

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- Large scale pulls or at the very least, others seeing you increase your pull size throughout the dungeon.
an attempt at maybe, but for your first run not a huge issue

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Majority of dungeons are the same format. Yes some trash may have a few extra aoe's and hit a bit harder, but how will you know what you or your healer can handle without trying? Also it prepares you for things like savage when you are getting hit like a truck as a tank or dealing with high amounts of damage as a healer.

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- Why are you not contributing more via dps stance or clerics?
again, very easy to get to 60 without having to use either of these (well tank DPS stances anyway, cleric i'll give you as it's explained in HotN)

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Not easy to get to 60 when you are kicked from party multiple times for not pulling your weight.

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Removed stuff i agree with cos char limit, but if you don't want to help people improve, why even be a mentor?

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There's a big difference between helping people to improve and doing all the leg work for them. Mentors should point players in the right direction and offer some advice. They should not have to read their skills for them, tell them every gear upgrade, avoid same aoe mechanics as the last 30 dungeons.

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give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

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people like you shouldn't be mentors.

level 60 is not hard to get and doesn't make you an expert. More often then not people just go "google it" providing no links. But newsflash though. Not everyone has a pc and/or smartphone. My g/f played this since 2.0 on the ps3 only recently moved to ps4 because i bought her 1. Her household didn't have a pc and she couldn't get 1.

She was insulted at every turn, even for asking for help/tips to play better. She mains tank and had a ton of abuse from other players. She always admits mistakes, and tries not to repeat them.

Everytime she asked the fc she was in, they couldn't be bothered to help just said "google it" and hate to say it, googling this on ff14 is a pain in the ass. So much to sift through, and most if not all is out of date. Not all guides are done well either. Some can leave people confused, while others are long winded.

Then you have trolling players on reddit who act like know it alls but are clueless. Like 1 guy commented on 1 of my g/fs posts, stating drk doesn't use mp for unleash...

She has had issues of mp starving from whms using holy right after she pops blood price. She only pops it at 50% mp or lower.

She even stated ff11 had a better community. People took time to explain things, yet this community calls you lazy.

asking for help should be encouraged not insulted.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

people like you shouldn't be mentors.

level 60 is not hard to get and doesn't make you an expert. More often then not people just go "google it" providing no links. But newsflash though. Not everyone has a pc and/or smartphone. My g/f played this since 2.0 on the ps3 only recently moved to ps4 because i bought her 1. Her household didn't have a pc and she couldn't get 1.

She was insulted at every turn, even for asking for help/tips to play better. She mains tank and had a ton of abuse from other players. She always admits mistakes, and tries not to repeat them.

Everytime she asked the fc she was in, they couldn't be bothered to help just said "google it" and hate to say it, googling this on ff14 is a pain in the ass. So much to sift through, and most if not all is out of date. Not all guides are done well either. Some can leave people confused, while others are long winded.

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Playstation also has access to google. What is stopping you spending 10 mins to look up things online after you log off? What is stopping a player reading their action descriptions help text? Also I never said just google it, I said ask friends etc before entering a dungeon. New mechanics fair enough new players should ask for tips but failing on the same things over and over again is what I am on about.

Also I never say just google it, I have many guides bookmarked for many various things I would post one and say exactly where you find the information. If the question was quick I would answer it, although if they was after a detailed answer then I would point them in the direction of a guide and explained why they need it.

Majority of alex story raids I have macros for the full fights explaining the tactics as well as well as for Void,Weeping and Dun Scaith. Other fights like coil I have them saved in word to copy and paste to a macro as needed. Same with Ex fights and savage.


By the looks of it you have just picked the odd few words from my post and tried to pick an argument.

As for regards to people like me shouldn't be mentors. I am often one of the most vocal players in our novice network, I will give players advice on rotations, help with dungeons and explain any mechanics they are not sure about if I spot a problem. I will also ask them prior to going in an instance if they want me to explain or go in blind.

Not everyone wants every mechanic explained to them but are able to adapt fast as the fight goes on. Also in my FC we regularly use Discord and I have talked multiple players through Ex trials new and old,raids and dungeons. We never use videos and go into all content blind as a free company. We talk over what went wrong between us and work out a fix.

So yes if that makes me a s@#t mentor then so be it.

I just came back after a year or so (stopped playing in 2.1 and again right before 3.0, so I missed the entire expansion), and just reached level 60. I did this dungeon and had a different experience, as a healer.

First run was weird. And I mean absolutely weird. Tank goes up and pulls everything to the first door. Not a problem, I'm new to the expansion, but I've been healing for a minute between WoW, ESO, and some other MMOs recently. I can handle my role with a crazy tank.

Freaking takes forever. I'm getting low on MP, tank isn't getting above 50% hp because I'm spamming cures for freecure procs. Shroud of Saints and Assize are on cooldown, and I'm about to search my inventory for a random elixir. And that's when I notice one of the DPS is greyed out, the other is has red lines next to their name. Yup.. both DPS DC'd right off the bat. Ok... screw that.. cleric stance and start stone 3ing as the monsters were nearly dead and the tank activated a cooldown.

Tank and I decide to disband the group. I suppose he didn't want to do ARF. So whatever I queue again. Get another group. Yeah this dungeon is a bit smoother without duoing it. Anyway.. my experience in this group was rather good. They knew I was new and thought I did pretty well. I did research the fights a bit so I had an advantage I suppose over most people. But even then.. I have to ask. Why not give a quick heads up on the fights even if the newbies read/watched a guide on the fight?

Lets be honest here. Those guides are outdated. Like for the dungeon listed in this thread. That came out in 3.0 on HW's release. The tactics and strats have changed since those guides were written and posted. Like how Praetorium's strat's changed from 2.0 to 2.4 and now. You can't say 'google it'. Google's obsolete. I like to think I'm pretty savvy with playing this game. I'm adaptable, and frequently my friends will run 4 man dungeons together and figure out the strats ourselves. Usually getting them on the first try, or second definitely if it goes to that.

But I also know I'm in a top tier when it comes to MMORPGs. I don't expect a random stranger to be that flexible. I've played video games for over 30 years, online for over 20, and MMOs for over 15. That's not average. I know this. I'd think that everyone else would realize that as well. So when I get a newer player in the group my first reaction is 'awesome, better rewards,' and my second reaction is to give them a quick tip about whatever we're doing. I don't go into a full explanation of the fight. They don't need that, and I don't believe they're there to be patronized anyway.

If they're tanking, I let them take their own pace. That's the job of tanking. You set the pace. I'm gonna let them set the pace. Within reason, don't need 10 minutes between boss fights. But if they're sizing up the next pull, I'm gonna let them get their bearings. Let them analyze the situation, that way they know how it plays out. If as a healer or DPS, and pull for them.. they don't learn from their own pulls. They don't learn the trash in that section of the dungeon, I'm not doing them, myself, or the next group they group with any favors.

If they're healing, I'm not pulling five groups right off the bat to test their MP. Let them learn each pull and if they've got a grasp, maybe get two groups. Even trash has unique attacks, pulling furball of them doesn't allow a healer to learn the attacks and see what's causing esunable attacks or high damage stuff that needs a preemptive spell of some sort.

Kinda the same with DPS, if you pull a furball like above, they're instinctively going to AOE. Why not? 20 mobs makes for great numbers. But they also don't learn which targets need to be prioritized. Sometimes there's mobs that stun, silence, or whatever. Getting a healer silenced in a 20 mob pull is a recipe for disaster. Seen this happen a few times. There's Vet DPS that probably don't know which mobs silence in the 55, 57, and 59 dungeons. And if you didn't know there was silence in those dungeons, that kinda proves my point a bit.

This isn't to say you need to go painfully slow. Just be aware of the newbies and take it easy and let them take it in, while still providing for a quick and expedient run. The less mistakes they make, the smoother the run goes, the smoother it goes the faster. We all want fast runs. We really do. Some are farming, some of us just want to get done with a dungeon to fit in another. But wipes are counter to that. Educating newbies prevents wipes. So educating and allowing them to learn allows for faster runs.

Its really an easy to do win/win situation for newbies and vets.

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

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I've been tired and missed mechanics before. But it doesn't happen often and dungeon mechanics at least are for the most part easy enough to do in your sleep if you put forth some effort. Some people mess up more than they don't mess up. So stop trying to change the subject please. And again, I am not really talking about new players fresh into a dungeon or class. But they more than anyone else should still prepare so they are not dead weight. Mistakes are fine, being lost in an ocean is not.

I'll motivate people who are doing far more terrible than they should be by playing with the same level of care they're playing with: none. AFK autoattacking is my new thing for when people are playing abysmally.

I wholeheartedly suggest that no one else carry these players either.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Not easy to get to 60 when you are kicked from party multiple times for not pulling your weight.

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There's a bunch wrong here but I'd like to focus on this...

Are you seriously kicking healers from your party for not using cleric stance? Are you kicking tanks for not stance dancing in dungeons? Because don't do that.

Should healers contribute dps if they have literally nothing better to do? Sure, if they're comfortable with that idea. Cleric Stance has a 5 second deadzone where you can't get rid of it after activation. If the healer isn't super confident that they'll be able to spend 2 or 3 GCDs essentially unable to heal, then I'd rather they just didn't bother. Healer dps in any context that isn't a savage raid, is just a bonus. It isn't essential.

In dungeons, dropping your tank stance will increase your damage very slightly and increase your risk of dying quite significantly. In 8-man duties where you have an off-tank and 2 healers, it's definitely a good idea to do this because the risk is much less. But in 4-man? Why even bother? Once again, you don't need the extra dps to clear the dungeon, and it puts your party at risk for no good reason.

Wow, that's very surprising indeed. I was thankfully never kicked from a story dungeon, but I know that's got to be very frustrating. Particularly so when you actually ASK for advice and you have a "mentor" in the party.

This is one of those times where it really helps to have a good FC. I could never do mine enough justice in praise. They have provided me with so much information, gear, dungeon/raid tips, job tips, etc. The core are all mentors, and they definitely bring respect to that title.

I think it is too bad when the game tells you to use duty finder for story quests and dungeons that you have never done before and then you run into so-called "mentors" who try to rush you far beyond what you are comfortable with – not to mention the horror of story dungeons like CM which thankfully SE has learned are poison in DF as it currently exists!

Personally I like doing dungeons and trials for the first time with friends rather than randos from DF. Even queuing with one or two other people you know is better and two can prevent vote kick in light party.

On the other hand if you have a bad DF experience I think you can block the bad players in your contacts and hopefully never see them again. And the good ones you can party with again thanks to cross world PF. PF is also good because you can specify slow and steady, watching all cutscenes, etc., and also people can see your PF even if they weren't planning on queuing for it in DF - they might just join for fun!

Regarding "know the fight" before your first time and "just google it" - I think it is perfectly OK for people to actually play the game and learn by doing. Having to google it is annoying, breaks immersion, and spoils a lot of the fun for people who enjoy surprises and like to experience things with a fresh perspective, at least for the first try. I encourage everyone to be understanding and patient with those pesky noobs who also happen to be giving you that sweet bonus and second chance points, especially sprouts that we want to subscribe and keep playing, or veteran players who are trying out a new role! :)

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Playstation also has access to google. What is stopping you spending 10 mins to look up things online after you log off? What is stopping a player reading their action descriptions help text? Also I never said just google it, I said ask friends etc before entering a dungeon. New mechanics fair enough new players should ask for tips but failing on the same things over and over again is what I am on about.

Also I never say just google it, I have many guides bookmarked for many various things I would post one and say exactly where you find the information. If the question was quick I would answer it, although if they was after a detailed answer then I would point them in the direction of a guide and explained why they need it.

Majority of alex story raids I have macros for the full fights explaining the tactics as well as well as for Void,Weeping and Dun Scaith. Other fights like coil I have them saved in word to copy and paste to a macro as needed. Same with Ex fights and savage.


By the looks of it you have just picked the odd few words from my post and tried to pick an argument.

As for regards to people like me shouldn't be mentors. I am often one of the most vocal players in our novice network, I will give players advice on rotations, help with dungeons and explain any mechanics they are not sure about if I spot a problem. I will also ask them prior to going in an instance if they want me to explain or go in blind.

Not everyone wants every mechanic explained to them but are able to adapt fast as the fight goes on. Also in my FC we regularly use Discord and I have talked multiple players through Ex trials new and old,raids and dungeons. We never use videos and go into all content blind as a free company. We talk over what went wrong between us and work out a fix.

So yes if that makes me a s@#t mentor then so be it.

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the ps3/ps4 brower sucks, i don't recommend using it. ever. Stuff doesn't load well, or not at all. Should try this yourself. Also no it doesn't use google but internet explorer. (ps3)

being active =/= having a good attitude. My g/f been met with many people who will simply say "google it or your lazy" if ranges from basic tank questions like "what buffs to use at pull" to asking how often should she use unleash. Basic stuff. I help her out the best i can, but I'm no main tank.

And most fc's she been in just treat her like garbage to the point where she started one for me and her.

having a good attitude is what make mentors good mentors, and you showcase a poor one. You do gaslight tatics as a defense too which is kinda shameful.

Kicking fresh players, or thinking level 60 people know what to do right at 60 is stupid 1-50 and 50-60 play completely different, more so when you got arrogant raid damage players, fouling up leveling dungeon runs. Saw my gf tank a dungeon. And a sch kept running ahead to pulling mobs in copperbell mines, this is when we just got back after 8 mnth break. She was rusty and told the group at start. The sch picked a fight with her over it stating "who cares it just copperbell".

the person had mentor crown to boot too. Was pretty sad thing to see, dude wouldn't let her do her role, and mocking her. All she said was "mind letting me pull?"


She had this happen over the course of all her tank leveling over multiple characters. All she wants is to be a good tank, yet seems to run into people who just mock and judge her, or treat her like crap. She try her hardest not to let anxiety she has from ASD get the better of her.

Her first day back, she even got kicked from snowcloak for not large pulling, she told the group she just got back and wasn't comfortable in doing large pulls. The people she was with tried to brute force it, and she did her best to tank. but ended up a wipe. They booted her.

Again this is stuff she had to deal with over 4 characters, how can a player learn in that type of environment?

No guide preps you for that. No skill text preps you for that. Hall of novice barely preps you with that.

People need to learn how to work as a team.

the "you pull you tank" goes against this.
the brute force large pulls goes against this.
mocking people doesn't help
nor is kicking people for not playing your way.

all that does is prove how much this community act like spoiled brats. I'm happy not everyone is like this, but still it shouldn't happen.

I guess another thing to say is that I have seen a lot of mediocre or seemingly lazy/semi afk play by mentors, but then again maybe they are having a bad day, or distracted by children, or sick, or tired, or they have an injury, or disability, or some other issue you don't know about – any of which might be affecting their game play – so it is possible that they are not being malicious but just have something else going on, just like any other players. Unfortunately I don't think there is a way to turn off the mentor icon is there? But even mentors who are playing poorly should still try to be patient or helpful if possible.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

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ya Me and my g/f been saying that for a while. Metas change, stats change, player mentalities change. A guide on coil will not be the same as doing coil now for example.

doing arf now isn't the same as when it came out. And again guides don't account for trolls. How do you deal with the rng of trolls? like how does a tank, tank for the first time if players brute force pulls?
can't really learn with acid being regurgitated at you.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

the ps3/ps4 brower sucks, i don't recommend using it. ever. Stuff doesn't load well, or not at all. Should try this yourself. Also no it doesn't use google but internet explorer. (ps3)

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Yes I have tried it and I agree with you that it is poor. Yet by saying your g/f was managing to go on reddit etc I was under the impression that it wasn't that poor for her. Yes it does use Internet Explorer browser but you can use the search engine Google.

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being active =/= having a good attitude. My g/f been met with many people who will simply say "google it or your lazy" if ranges from basic tank questions like "what buffs to use at pull" to asking how often should she use unleash. Basic stuff. I help her out the best i can, but I'm no main tank.

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I have never asked someone to google a dungeon prior to their first time in it and never would. I would recommend that upon leaving the dungeon that they look up anything that they wasn't sure about or ask friends/fc/novice etc

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And most fc's she been in just treat her like garbage to the point where she started one for me and her.

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Seem to be tarring all FC's with the same brush a lot are helpful out there and you will come across a lot of shitty ones. Now you can call me a crappy mentor or whatever but I have taken in many players who have been abused by other FC's and told never to do endgame etc. They have come into my Fc refusing to do recent Ex fights, yet with some gentle persuasion have gone on to clear them with us.

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having a good attitude is what make mentors good mentors, and you showcase a poor one. You do gaslight tatics as a defense too which is kinda shameful.

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As for gaslight tactics or whatever. It is called being efficient, it is far quicker to have strategies etc macroed, so they can be pulled up when required instead of having to wait for me to type it all out. After taking many people in the FC through these it would become a pain to constantly type things out. Once I have used macros I will then ask if they have any questions or if their is anything they don't understand.

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Kicking fresh players, or thinking level 60 people know what to do right at 60 is stupid 1-50 and 50-60 play completely different, more so when you got arrogant raid damage players, fouling up leveling dungeon runs. Saw my gf tank a dungeon. And a sch kept running ahead to pulling mobs in copperbell mines, this is when we just got back after 8 mnth break. She was rusty and told the group at start. The sch picked a fight with her over it stating "who cares it just copperbell".

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I personally wouldn't kick any fresh player and I would explain everything that is needed if they require it. Yes your G/f was treated very poorly and I would have kicked the Sch for pulling. I would never say to a tank PULL BIG PULLS, I would watch to see what they do and if they are pulling small groups I would let them know that I am comfortable with them pulling large groups, but if they are not I would say could you try to gradually increase your pulls throughout the dungeon. If they still said no then I would drop the issue.

Also I personally wouldn't kick a player for not dpsing or swapping in and out of tank stance as I am patient. Some people are not and I can understand when non new members get kicked for not being able to/attempt to push their class further.

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the person had mentor crown to boot too. Was pretty sad thing to see, dude wouldn't let her do her role, and mocking her. All she said was "mind letting me pull?"

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Then you should of kicked them and reported them.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

people like you shouldn't be mentors.
yet this community calls you lazy.

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A lvl 60 dungeon IS NOT THE PLACE TO ASK FOR ROTATION ADVICE.
1. Even if you ask and one person decides to help there are 2 other people waiting now.
2. Even if you as a mentor offer unsolicited advice no matter how polite you are most people ignore or get snippy. Plus you run into white knight who say "leave him alone it's fine"
3. I don't que up expert roulette to teach people. EXPERT. KNOW YOUR CLASS
4. find nicer friends. I love actually helping my fc mates get better. But I'm not going to subject random df people to the learning process.
5. I am a short fused person when subjected to lazy people. LAZY means not learning on your own time. If i see someone in expert dungeon who sucks i should have every right to say so
Addition: if you feel that spending 30minutes online to find a proper guide is too much, too hard or a waste of time why then would you think making 3 people take 10 minutes longer in an expert dungeon either helping or carrying you IS acceptable. We value our time as much as you do. But now there are 3 of us.

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Originally Posted by Avenger

I guess another thing to say is that I have seen a lot of mediocre or seemingly lazy/semi afk play by mentors, but then again maybe they are having a bad day, or distracted by children, or sick, or tired, or they have an injury, or disability, or some other issue you don't know about – any of which might be affecting their game play – so it is possible that they are not being malicious but just have something else going on, just like any other players. Unfortunately I don't think there is a way to turn off the mentor icon is there? But even mentors who are playing poorly should still try to be patient or helpful if possible.

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Also I think some mentors get treat shitty by other players, yes they have cleared x dungeon but it may have been years since they was last in it. Some may even be too embarrassed to say "hey I can't remember this one". Players see the crown and automatically think their a mentor so they know everything, yet a quick glance at their stats and they have only one tank leveled plus arcanist and everything else crafts.

Some people don't even realise what each mentor symbol means, they could have trade or pvp or maybe just the crown to say they know a bit of everything but not enough to say I want to specialise in advice for PvE.

Then you have the douchbags who have mentor just so they can get the mount :(.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Also I think some mentors get treat shitty by other players, yes they have cleared x dungeon but it may have been years since they was last in it. Some may even be too embarrassed to say "hey I can't remember this one". Players see the crown and automatically think their a mentor so they know everything, yet a quick glance at their stats and they have only one tank leveled plus arcanist and everything else crafts.

Some people don't even realise what each mentor symbol means, they could have trade or pvp or maybe just the crown to say they know a bit of everything but not enough to say I want to specialise in advice for PvE.

Then you have the douchbags who have mentor just so they can get the mount :(.

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expect it isn't hard to tell them apart.

mentor crown with blade =combat. :)

so people who don't communicate get a free pass but don't google a dungeon and deserve a /kick?

sorry but no.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

A lvl 60 dungeon IS NOT THE PLACE TO ASK FOR ROTATION ADVICE.
1. Even if you ask and one person decides to help there are 2 other people waiting now.
2. Even if you as a mentor offer unsolicited advice no matter how polite you are most people ignore or get snippy. Plus you run into white knight who say "leave him alone it's fine"
3. I don't que up expert roulette to teach people. EXPERT. KNOW YOUR CLASS
4. find nicer friends. I love actually helping my fc mates get better. But I'm not going to subject random df people to the learning process.
5. I am a short fused person when subjected to lazy people. LAZY means not learning on your own time. If i see someone in expert dungeon who sucks i should have every right to say so
Addition: if you feel that spending 30minutes online to find a proper guide is too much, too hard or a waste of time why then would you think making 3 people take 10 minutes longer in an expert dungeon either helping or carrying you IS acceptable. We value our time as much as you do. But now there are 3 of us.

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why not? your rotation changes at 60, based on the job.

Also unsolicited advice isn't advice.. that just telling people what to do. to offer advice is to ask "hey want tips?" then reply as follows, if you get a no just back off.

groups time = groups time. not 1 individuals time matters, everyones time matters.

if you have a short fuse why do you play mmo?

if you can't grasp not everyone owns a pc/smartphone idk what to tell you, just wish rude players like you didn't exist.

guides are out of date. or did you not get that memo?

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

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look up what gaslighting is. :)

And only just recently started using reddit. My g/f isn't the /kick type, she thinks it is rude and a poor way to communicate.

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Originally Posted by Avenger

I guess another thing to say is that I have seen a lot of mediocre or seemingly lazy/semi afk play by mentors, but then again maybe they are having a bad day, or distracted by children, or sick, or tired, or they have an injury, or disability, or some other issue you don't know about – any of which might be affecting their game play – so it is possible that they are not being malicious but just have something else going on, just like any other players. Unfortunately I don't think there is a way to turn off the mentor icon is there? But even mentors who are playing poorly should still try to be patient or helpful if possible.

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You can turn the icon off, with the exception of the Mentor Roulette. It's always on if you queue for that one.

They were assholes for kicking you, but one thing I must say:
You wanna tank something, before trying it maybe watch a 4 minute youtube guide or read a guide somewhere if you don't want visual spoilers.
It takes very little and you'll make the experience better for everyone.
I am sick and tired of running whatever extreme primals I have in my WT and being paired with another tank that has no idea what to do.
Sure I'll explain, but couldn't you have watched a damn video before queueing?

Not to mention, pulling all to the door with a group without aoe, it is just putting unnecessary pressure on the healer and barring him to add to the dps because tank constantly hit by slow dying mobs.