Jobs you feel yoshi and team got wrong

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Its a guess as to what to use goad on

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QQ

how about your Loving Tank, who doesn't have access to invigorate. A tank going all out get's TP starved by abiout 7 minutes if he's interrupted. wait, that was old data from over a year ago. It might be faster now. Also, if somebody has to get raised, they should be goaded for TP recovery.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

ignore all the other games, what does the word Summoner mean to you? it summons something. shouldn't whatever is being summoned be more valuable than 20-25% of the damage if Summoner is a DPS job?

what does Bio and Miasma have to do with Summoning?

Summoner probably would have been better off if it wasn't a pet job and more like Ninja. you get 3 seals that tick away, put them on targets in different orders and you still get Astral Flow charges, but instead of Bane and Fester, you get to summon attacks like Aerial Blast and Inferno.

Scholar works better, at least the name doesn't imply it's pet dependent, it's about planning out when to put up Soil, when to put up Succor/Adlo, etc.

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thats why i said to work within this game to find ways to improve

Bard: Currently bard is an archer, just with a few buffs that have a short bard-like instrument strumming animation, then it's back to archery 99% of the time. And the archery part feels as if it's missing something, it's extremely fast and accurate even while running or jumping, it's like a gun with homing bullets and the user needs no skill.

Summoner: It could be a lot grander than it is, but sharing a base class with Scholar makes it hard to suggest a radical departure.

Just want to add my thoughts to this, mainly about the smn. i have a level 50 smn so i understand what people mean when they say it doesn't feel like a summoner and i do think this is because of the lack of the elemental wheel system.

I understand why they took the system out and back during the change it made sense. however i think there is a way to fix this system without causing the problems like "ifrit is immune to your spell". what people don't realize is that most elements can be countered in some way by the same one, throwing a large rock of titan for example would still hurt the god either way. my suggestion would be to make it so monsters have slight weaknesses but not so much heavy resistances so using water vs ifrit for example might hurt him a little bit more then fire but fire will still hurt him the same way.

this could be used to introduce a whole new line of spells that can make elemental damage more effective on creatures like fire resistance down etc.

to be honest, i think this will help all mages have flavor (its personal but i even want astral and umbral damage back) it doesn't have to affect the game a huge amount. if every mage from now on only gets unaspected damage what is the point in having elemental damage at all bar pvp where people don't care anyway.

I feel like Bard was not made to the vision of past bards, its definitely true that in the past bards have used bows (and even other weapons) but in FF games they all had a huge focus on music when it came to abilities. SE's new Bard has a huge focus on archery. I don't hate the Bards, and Yoshida has right to re-envision Jobs (producer ftw) but I don't think it's surprising some people would be miffed, like changing Dante's person in Devil May Cry lol.

Similar reasons why I didn't think bard was captured Summoner missed out on the visuals, or even semi-epic visuals. To be fair it's hard to get the gameplay right to a particular crowd because SMN has been a bit of everything, but still the visuals have been incredibly consistent "awesome" and sure there is some limitations in multiplayer games but we didn't need to go this far from awesome. Opinion, of course - that they don't look "awesome". Assuming SE saw warlock as some influence it feels weird then if you compare the Warlock's pets to ours as you'd see ours lack variety and fearsome or powerful presence-- compared to a graphically inferior game (imo), compared to SE who loves to do over the top stuff (I thought..), compared to SE's summoner who is almost always the most over the top featurette when available. I understand wanting to scale down from full primal (would become screen filling nonsense), I don't understand going as far as they did - from first sight it wasn't love, lol. Good news is that it "appears" they've had at least minor changes- seen via benchmark ('appears'), ifrit-egi the best looking egi (imo) appeared to be bukier and a bit bigger.

Don't hate either, never really been crazy bard player so I just see it as a small change of theme and not a change of a class I previously loved to play, but playing SMN it did constantly itch at my mind that my minion looked silly and It caused me to stray away from it in the end.

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

QQ

how about your Loving Tank, who doesn't have access to invigorate. A tank going all out get's TP starved by abiout 7 minutes if he's interrupted. wait, that was old data from over a year ago. It might be faster now. Also, if somebody has to get raised, they should be goaded for TP recovery.

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Ah, but that DPS might need it for the add phase. It honestly depends on the situation, and having no tp number means a vital piece of information on when to use it is missing.

I will use it if you ask, though! :)

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Originally Posted by Zumi

In FF11 and FF14 the Japanese name for Paladin was Knight. Paladin was just the English translation but if you look at the JP text they call them both Knight.

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The terminology really doesn't matter that much. As it is, FFXI Paladin seemed to draw from FF1's Knight and Cecil Harvey as a Paladin, and extended the idea from there. This game's Paladi, by contrast, appears to be a more of a modern take on FF5's Knight job.

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Originally Posted by Allistar

As the title states...I feel their are some jobs in the game that imo could have been done differently. I am just stating my opinion and as such it will differ everyone else's.

BRD-- I miss the XI version of BRD or more importantly the ability to have 2 songs going at the same time.
SMN--XI version was nice and I enjoyed it...maybe a combining of XI and FFT'S version would be nice
WAR--I see WAR as a DD not so much as a tank...some tanking capabilities, but no where near PLD effectiveness.
ARC/RNG---XI version again...hate/love the idea of being able to shoot and move...but there should be a consequence, since no mage is able to cast and move at the same time.
ROG/NIN---wish they were separate entities, each bring their own unique flavor to the world, as nice as they were in XI I think I prefer FFT version of both.
GLD---should have been the other tank job, just none magical.

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As many people have already pointed out this is FFXIV. Not FFXI.

BRD, I think it would make them too powerful. Imagine the Foe's and Ballad/Paeon on at the same time? Some BRDs can't even sing 1 song already.
SMN, they said they're reworking it for expanion. Please look forward to it!
WAR, in some cases WAR is better than PLD, like adds.
ARC/RNG, naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah....
ROG/NIN, while I do kinda miss NIN tanks from XI, seeing how squishy they are.. NO.
GLD, I don't see them doing it, seeing how ARC turned out.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I feel like Bard was not made to the vision of past bards, its definitely true that in the past bards have used bows (and even other weapons) but in FF games they all had a huge focus on music when it came to abilities. SE's Bard has a huge focus on archery. I don't hate the Bards, and Yoshida has right to re-envision Jobs (producer ftw) but I don't think it's surprising some people would be miffed, like changing Dante's person in Devil May Cry lol.

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Funny thing...in games outside of Final Fantasy, Bards make decent archers. In fact it's only in the final fantasy games and ones not played well in other settings that the "squishy bard" stigma developed.
Why WOULDN'T a class that needs to sing take up the bow instead of the sword?

BRD, just BRD. You only have 4 songs, of which only 3 are usuable in combat, and 2 of those are extremely situational. You also don't have access to any support spells like Stoneskin or Raise, which would help with the support 'feel' that most would expect from BRD...things 1.0 let them have from what I heard. Until they get those back, BRD will never feel right to me.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

BRD, just BRD. You only have 4 songs, of which only 3 are usuable in combat, and 2 of those are extremely situational. You also don't have access to any support spells like Stoneskin or Raise, which would help with the support 'feel' that most would expect from BRD...things 1.0 let them have from what I heard. Until they get those back, BRD will never feel right to me.

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This.

The sound my face made when it crashed into my desk following Bard using another shooty skill in the Benchmark was not pleasant. I know they said we're getting more than 2 skills come 60, but still... If they'd shown off a new Song I'd have been cheering... Instead I'm reminded that Bard is 90% Ranger 10% Bard...

Sadly I don't think Bard is ever going to change. They wont add Ranger for the same reasons they wont add Thief, and since Jobs vastly outweigh Classes, the Jobs end up being both instead of being able to use the Class as well, allowing the Job to do something vastly different. We'll have a Bard that is always a bit too much Ranger, rather than having more support through Songs, and a Ninja which... Well hopefully Mug is the end of it, though I'll always think of what could have been (Thief evasion tank, stealing the enemies attention, oh my!), still stuck with not-a-lot of Ninja looking weapons though...

I look at some of the concept art and see characters using drums and flutes and... Meh...

Okay I guess its my time to say something new. I wont compalin about summoners, bards or ninjas. I like em.
My problem is with Black Mages and Monks.
You are this scary dark wizard that uses forbidden techniques to tear voidsent a new one. Yet only two out of the five job specific abilities are attacks. I generally fight with me thaumaturge abilities. BLM does not differ that much from Thurge. Say what you will about summoners but at least you summon different creatures compared to arcanist. Except for Swiftsong all bard songs are exclusive to bard. And ninjas may not be like in FFXI (thank god) but the mudras make them very unique. Dragoons also have their iconic jumps. Yes they are impractical with animation lock and everything, but I totally feal like a dragoon and not like a lancer.
This brings me to Monk. Again, it is not that different from a pugilist. One new punch here, one new kick there and here you go. Monks dont have an identity. Sure, they have their lore, but it doesnt translate into gameplay.

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You are entitled to your opinion sir...
I say DD because its what I prefer to say...I prefer WAR to be a damage dealer as opposed to a tank...GLD would be the none magical version of paladin, (think of roman gladiators)...and I referenced XI and FFT because no other game IMO portrays jobs the way SE does, and XI and FFT and FF6 stand as my fav FF titles.

Warrior... by far. A tank? Really? What exactly is defensive about deciding to swing around a giant axe? Upcoming DKs will be using Dark Magic or whatever so its plausible maybe. Just seems to me Warrior shoudve (and probably wouldve) been a DD if they wouldnt otherwise be low on tanks.

Bard. /sigh ... my favorite archetype, ruined by dressing them up like a medieval fool and making them play folk music instead of just being a sharpshooting badass. I guess theyre still technically a sharpshooting badass... and if you can ignore the songs or the craptastic AF gear its not all THAT bad. Hopefully theyll progressively 'fix' that moving forward. Already getting a new LB which I am personally looking forward to. EDIT: Haha, seems im the only one who doesnt like the Bard parts of the actual Bard. :P

I love the people coming in to tell the guy that this isn't FFXI or telling him to go play FFXI as if he is comparing games so vastly different like DDR and Super Mario World. Same universe, same races, different mechanics. Anyone who says otherwise is just delusional and just wants to hate on FFXI cause a bunny killed them and they went into rage mode.

While I would really like to agree with the WAR comments in here... PLD in FFXI was an advanced job and WAR was the original tank until people got to 30 and started going with PLD instead. So WAR being a tank isn't that much of a stretch, not to mention with the way this game is set up, imagine what the queue times would be if PLD was the only available tank. So SOMETHING had to give and I can agree that WAR would be the best option to fill that spot.

BRD though needs to be split and be given more support abilities then add RNG to cover the ranged portion.

MNK just seems thrown together without a lot of thought put into it. One Ilm Punch is useless, stacks of greased lightning falling off too easily during mechanics like Titan jumping or Leviathan going under the water, and a rotation where if you want to do max dps you have to do a cardio workout across your keyboard.

Just my opinions.

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Originally Posted by Dinh

MNK just seems thrown together without a lot of thought put into it. One Ilm Punch is useless, stacks of greased lightning falling off too easily during mechanics like Titan jumping or Leviathan going under the water, and a rotation where if you want to do max dps you have to do a cardio workout across your keyboard.

Just my opinions.

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Whats so bad about One Ilm Punch? Yeah its situational and all but useless against bosses but its nice being able to remove a buff in a pinch. I do hate that dancing around stuff. It would be cool if maybe MNKs were among the top DPS for all the extra work but it sure doesnt seem that way. Kind of an odd mechanic for the class to be doing any sneak attacks like say, a NIN. Not to mention how none of it works while solo'ing. Hmm, maybe MNK shouldve been the tank with WAR being DD....

... been thinking of switching jobs once im done with story. Probably NIN since at least they can at least open from behind plus keep all the same gloam gear.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Funny thing...in games outside of Final Fantasy, Bards make decent archers. In fact it's only in the final fantasy games and ones not played well in other settings that the "squishy bard" stigma developed.
Why WOULDN'T a class that needs to sing take up the bow instead of the sword?

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Old school bards are also good with daggers and swords. And crossbows. Pillars of Eternity has a bard that wields an arquebus. Imagine that. :D

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Originally Posted by KayoZ

Hmm, maybe MNK shouldve been the tank with WAR being DD....

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You have no idea how strongly I feel about this. I get a huge high in the moments I can hold hate as my MNK while the tank is coming back to life, or when I'm in open world with friends. It just feel's like MNK was meant to tank, whereas my whole focus on WAR is how much damage I can pump out.

Hell aren't the PGL the muscle for the Platinum Club next to the guild?

Going even further. Aren't the MNK's described as a main defending force of Ala Mhingo, where as the WAR's are described as berserkers struggling to keep their inner beast in check?

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Originally Posted by Rhaja

Going even further. Aren't the MNK's described as a main defending force of Ala Mhingo, where as the WAR's are described as berserkers struggling to keep their inner beast in check?

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Dont know about that but I do remember reading about 1.0 MNKs being a sort of off-tank while deciding what class to play for ARR. Ah well, doubt itll change now unless we get talent specs in the future.

I'd say splitting the elements between WHM/BLM was not good; especially since NIN has access to all elements

Bard. :( What a joke.

Lets say Ive been a FF fan for years, and I knew nothing about this game. If I saw a list of spells and abilities, I would assume that we have some sort of poison mage.

The only thing about the Summoner class that screams Summoner is the AF gear, thats it.

I don't understand how they came up with this class from a design point of view at all.

Can someone also explain why when you become a big boy Summoner, you forget how to summon Carbuncle?

If they need a lore reason to let humanoids summon primals, Ultima/Omega weapon resurface and start eating the beast tribes and primals so they now ally with us to help defeat the weapons, bam you can thank me later SE.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Funny thing...in games outside of Final Fantasy, Bards make decent archers. In fact it's only in the final fantasy games and ones not played well in other settings that the "squishy bard" stigma developed.
Why WOULDN'T a class that needs to sing take up the bow instead of the sword?

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Old school bards are also good with daggers and swords. And crossbows. Pillars of Eternity has a bard that wields an arquebus. Imagine that. :D

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6 party members walk into a bar, all equipped with an arquebus. . . Those were pretty OP at times lol.

I agree both to you and Kyuven that old school bards were not so singularly focused on music and capable in other matters, like living and fighting with other weapons lol. I'm in no way saying our bard now is unheard of in all fantasy, but that its just not very Final Fantasy like where while the Bards could wield many weapons their mechanical tool set was pretty focused on the theme of music and effects (and that is the change that I miss, even though I actually also very much like the DND bard). Good counter I suppose is that Bard is only 5 abilities, and actually do have a focus on songs but that seems to be a limitation of the class x job system, so now we're just talking about that lol (which 'appears' to be going away at least for the new jobs).

The music bard may require special consideration especially moving from single player to multiplayer but it is not 'untranslatable' to an mmo. I imagine you could have designed one to meet the current philosophy of the game and still be musical class (I've seen your fun class designs, and likes of other's), whether you would have wanted that or not.. fair enough- the old school DNDeqsue Bard does make more 'logical' sense lol.

To the question, Why would they not use something like a bow? Bow is fine :P, just the focus of ability allocation feels off for a FF game. I like my illogical preference, not that I'd ever consider unsubbing for it (the job actually finds a lot of uses in game, and the songs when used... lol, are useful)- I don't even play Bard I just didn't think it matches the old FF bard as well as it could have. "Staph then" ilu2 :). Now, thanks to Duelle, I have a craving to replay a cRPG - time to find the beloved community patches.

My main gripe is Summoner/Scholar. After reading and seeing both jobs as well the stats and abilities from its base class. It should have been one or the other as a job or at the very least, they should have made a way to easily swap between the main stats of the two.

The only other thing is the names of the mage classes. Conjurer sounds more like an early Summoner. Thaumaturgy is in essence a Healer. While Arcanist in general is a craftsman who possesses knowledge of manufacturing secrets. It would make sense if it were linked to a Scholar. Assuming Scholar was instead the "class", it would summon golems or constructs along those lines if it were to function similar to a Summoner. Given the fanboy that's built into the game they should have linked Black mage to Wizard like it was in the first title.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

The music bard may require special consideration especially moving from single player to multiplayer but it is not 'untranslatable' to an mmo.

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LOTRO's Minstrel is closer to what I'd like to see for a Bard. They can equip both weapons and a musical instrument, but the majority of their attacks and other skills use their instrument rather than their weapons. I wouldn't mind a bow being the Bards' weapon, if it was just backup to music as their primary skill. Instead we have them as 99% archers who might occasionally strum a single musical note. That just isn't a musical enough focus to justify calling them Bards.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I'm in no way saying our bard now is unheard of in all fantasy, but that its just not very Final Fantasy like where while the Bards could wield many weapons their mechanical tool set was pretty focused on the theme of music and effects (and that is the change that I miss, even though I actually also very much like the DND bard). Good counter I suppose is that Bard, is only 5 abilities, and actually do have a focus on songs but that seems to be a limitation of the class x job system, so now we're just talking about that lol (which 'appears' to be going away at least for the new jobs).

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The thing is that music focus would probably stretch the idea of a bard in weird ways within the game's framework. Assuming you wanted to keep it DPS, you'd have to turn it into a radial DoT job (basically the BRD would deal damage to all enemies around him while playing music, with probably a couple of abilities that act as short-duration DoTs), which would put it at a disadvantage in most encounters currently in the game (seeing that you're either in melee range or far away with the casters, and very few encounters allow for anything in-between). You could turn it into a healer, but that would require copying Rift's bard with the combo points that can lead to heal "finishers". It would also mean scrapping the placeholder BRD they gave us during 1.0, which would have been more expensive on SE and would have led to a shitstorm among the people that played during 1.0.

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The music bard may require special consideration especially moving from single player to multiplayer but it is not 'untranslatable' to an mmo. I imagine you could have designed one to meet the current philosophy of the game and still be musical class (I've seen your fun class designs, and likes of other's), whether you would have wanted that or not.. fair enough- the old school DNDeqsue Bard does make more 'logical' sense lol.

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During this whole ordeal, I've looked at BRD as a job that does deal with lore, stories and songs, but needs to have practical skills in combat because it should be able to pull its weight in a fight (much like how old school bards will jump into the fray when their silver tongues can't get them out of trouble). That it comes from the longbowmen of Gridania simply reinforces that notion.

The one thing I will say is that the job should have access to songs and instruments, but more for the sake of RP and in-world aesthetics. I wouldn't be against BRD being able to recite tales and sing ballads while in towns (I guess text bubbles would need to be implemented first). Instead of seeing BRDs do the manderville with every other person in Eorzea, you might see them strumming on their instruments or maybe singing in-game lore songs like the Ballad of the Vainglorious Fool during idle moments. And as a PLD main, I wouldn't feel neglected if SE were to put this kind of effort on BRD.

Really, it'd be nice to see something along the lines of the postmoogle quests or The Greatest Story Never Told but made for bard players.

I feel summoner feels more like Green Mage with a familiar rather than an actual Summoner. . .

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/G...8Tactics_A2%29

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Green_Magick

I wish they were more like this
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Summoner_(Tactics_A2)

Warrior.

Don't get me wrong I love the class and its been my main since 2.0 but all they really did is make a more survivable dps and more squishy tank. I feel like it should have been more offensive to contrast with the pld's defensive cooldowns. Berserk, Vengeance, IB, Bloodbath and SE/SP are good examples of offensive skills that help in tanking and enmity, especially when used in certain combinations. Then we get super lame skills like Foresight which ONLY increases Physical defense while not increasing magic defense or even parry, which is the only passive mitigation Warrior has.

Hopefully DRK will be more of what I was expecting out of Warrior while still keeping the dynamic and intense play style. Also bump Holmgang up to 8 secs

i feel a lot of people complaining about the summoner miss why they have done it like this.

let's say they have done the Summoner like in FFT or any previous game:
- summoner summon ifrit for he launch a fire attack and disappear. it deal fire damage to the target for X potency.
- Black mage cast Fire. it deal fire damage to the target for X potency.

that sole example resume all, make the summoner "summon" an primal for launch an attack is not different than a black mage simply casting the spell. the damage and function of the spell is the same. that why they have make the summoner like this.

same for the pet version, the difference is instead to be the one casting the damage spell it will be the pet. worst, summoner depending of the number of pet, can simply have tons of skill in comparaison to the other jobs, or simply have a tune down pet that simply be a swap color... since it will only be the type of damage that will change.

what it's important it's the function of the skill. when you understand this, you can get why they did choose to make the summoner class a dot/pet class. indeed actually the jobs need more pet skill and pet command. but the fact to give the summoner some dot, give him a more flexibility and when the pet die, they can still do damage... because, any one that did play a full pet class in other game know this, when the pet is down... you become totally useless and in high level encounter it can happend often.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

let's say they have done the Summoner like in FFT or any previous game:
- summoner summon ifrit for he launch a fire attack and disappear. it deal fire damage to the target for X potency.
- Black mage cast Fire. it deal fire damage to the target for X potency.

that sole example resume all, make the summoner "summon" an primal for launch an attack is not different than a black mage simply casting the spell. the damage and function of the spell is the same.

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I need to preserve this so that I can paste it every time someone decides to complain about summoner.

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because, any one that did play a full pet class in other game know this, when the pet is down... you become totally useless and in high level encounter it can happend often.

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Not to mention that by endgame those type of pet classes become burdens to raids because they could be filling that spot with someone whose damage won't drop by 3/4 after the boss AoEs.

I'd much rather have had Summoner be about summoning.

The current situation where you just summon Garuda-Egi (or is Ifrit finally worth a damn these days?) and micromanage one pet skill while 90% of the Job is Ruin/DoT rotation just isn't Summoner to me...

Would have been better if they didn't go for a Mage/Melee/Tank archetype for the pets and instead made it so their abilities aren't on a shared cooldown, meaning it becomes more appealing to switch them out frequently to maximize damage. All they'd need to do is provide additional tools for quick summoning (because just Swiftcast doesn't cut it), or better yet just have the actual summoning be an attack that spawns the Egi, rather than just spawning the Egi.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i feel a lot of people complaining about the summoner miss why they have done it like this.
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Indeed actually the jobs need more pet skill and pet command.

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So, you're saying the job is fine the way it is. But you're also saying that it needs changes?

i think that the summoner need more skill for be different from the arcanist, same a new pet with different pet skill is needed. same what i call pet command is a system more interesting than what we have.

but i do think too that the dot part is a smart choice for give some tool to the summoner for be different than a black mage

All i will say is PLD with their boring combos. Yes, i know they are mainly defensive cooldowns but come on..give them some attacking skills. So far we have seen 1 new PLD offensive skill. I hope its not 1,2,3 and 4! That is so mind blowing it hurts ;-;

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

let's say they have done the Summoner like in FFT or any previous game:
- summoner summon ifrit for he launch a fire attack and disappear. it deal fire damage to the target for X potency.
- Black mage cast Fire. it deal fire damage to the target for X potency.

that sole example resume all, make the summoner "summon" an primal for launch an attack is not different than a black mage simply casting the spell. the damage and function of the spell is the same.

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Well, with the earlier use of Summoner it wouldn't be the same X, nor would those attacks take place at the same time. The summoning skills that summoners use are very high cost and can't be used continuously, but when they finally are used, they're extremely powerful. The result is by far the highest burst damage in the game, balanced by quite a bit of downtime in between when their skills are pretty limited. (Black Mage might have a little of that type of effect in the low levels of some previous games, when they don't have enough MP yet to maintain continuous spellcasting, but generally by mid-game, a Black Mage can keep casting spells at every turn.)

The DoT focus of FFXIV's summoners completely reverses this pattern. Instead of extremely bursty damage, their damage is smoothed out into a continuous steady stream. It can be a fun job in its own right, but it really doesn't feel like a summoner.

Summoner does not feel like a summoner job of any Final Fantasy and drastically needs a rework or redesign.

The Bard can only be changed IF SE learns they can only reinvent the triad classes so many times before they overlap. So will eventually come back with Support Jobs. This will prompt a BRD redesign, but sadly its prob many expansions away.

The ACN class splitting off into SCH and SMN makes for awkward stat allocation. All mind or all int? Meh, time to buy a stack of stat reset tomes.

I'm sure it causes problems for the devs when they're rebalancing skills too.

SMN for me is a bit of an issue. Besides what everyone says about it not having the essence of a Final Fantasy Summoner or being much of a pet class, it also is getting the short end of the stick now with them doing away with the 2 jobs per class. It no longer has much of an identity seeing as how most of the spells seem more fitted to Scholar than a Summoner (despite usually also being advanced black mages)
In other FF's there were DOT abilities tied to elements (Burn, Choke, Drown, Shock) Which could be tied to pets basically reskinning Bio and Miasma.

Paladin also needs some of its healing skills like it had in 1.0.
Black Mage is mostly fun to play but its a bit sad that Fire is the only damaging spell. I miss elements a bit. I get its purpose but Fire was always my least favorite spells in FF's so I don't play BLM.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

that sole example resume all, make the summoner "summon" an primal for launch an attack is not different than a black mage simply casting the spell. the damage and function of the spell is the same. that why they have make the summoner like this.

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the damage kind of should be the same because if you have DPS classes that do very different damage there will be huge imbalances. the function is the same because you made it the same. the "summoning" should be more complicated than that. you can still keep the job based on Astral Flow charges. what you needed to do was give Bane and Fester different effects depending on which pet was out.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

worst, summoner depending of the number of pet, can simply have tons of skill in comparaison to the other jobs, or simply have a tune down pet that simply be a swap color... since it will only be the type of damage that will change.

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how is that different from BLMs having Thunder, Ice and Fire spells? you have Ifrit, Garuda, Titan skills. when the level cap goes up you get new skills for the new avatar/egi.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Not to mention that by endgame those type of pet classes become burdens to raids because they could be filling that spot with someone whose damage won't drop by 3/4 after the boss AoEs.

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those are badly designed fights and right now they don't exist, pets don't die automatically to raid AOEs.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

snips

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i feel you ignore the main point.... the function of the spell is the same. the only difference in what you say is: it's a burst.... anyway, if you must make it work, you need to maintain balance, leading to the fact that instead to cast multiple spell like the black mage, you will cast less spell... leading you, as summoner, to do the same thing but with less action.
for make simple you want to play a jobs, that will only use a skill evry 5-10 second... seriously people need to stop to use solo rpg game as example for how must be the summoner.
even the FF11 summoner had a looot of issues that some people try to minimize, like the fact that only a few summon was really usefull.

you must understand that them goal is to make a jobs that will be fun to play, not be like in a solo rpg. with a summoner a la FF11 as example a version of FF14 will not be different than a black mage nor will be fun to play.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

the damage kind of should be the same because if you have DPS classes that do very different damage there will be huge imbalances. the function is the same because you made it the same. the "summoning" should be more complicated than that. you can still keep the job based on Astral Flow charges. what you needed to do was give Bane and Fester different effects depending on which pet was out.

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is not about doing same or different type of damage but do the same function. even if you call ifrit for launch a fire skill and disappear, is not different that cast a fireball, the only difference is to have ifrit come... it's only change the graphical effect of a spell that will have the same function. deal fire damage for x potency to X enemy.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

how is that different from BLMs having Thunder, Ice and Fire spells? you have Ifrit, Garuda, Titan skills. when the level cap goes up you get new skills for the new avatar/egi.

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black mage do have 3 type of element that true, but if you look to the function of skill it's either a dot (thunder line) or mono/multi-target damage spell (fire/ice line). in the case of the fire/ice damage they are actually the same spell. with a difference of potency. but they offer 3 function at best. each egi offer 3 skill with different function.... with each egi you add more spell with different function will be added.