As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

It's more the fact that that, over the past 50 pages, it's been amply demonstrated that the only position you'll support, agree with, or respond favorably to is one that is 100% in line with your own. So it's really no use responding to you at this point because you keep inciting circular argument for....what? What is your goal here? What are you trying to accomplish? As noted, many times, you selectively quote opposing points and ignore the moderate views that many people have advocated.

At this point I'm honestly not sure whether you're a very dedicated troll, or just extremely stubborn ESL who doesn't quite understand what is being said.

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That is not actually true I have resonded to most people but if I dont agree I will say so. And why do you think its just me that does this. When have I ever seen a post that favours my views from you?

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Originally Posted by Wanzer

What the... Me ? In particulary ? AGAIN ?! <_<

It's very hard to resist at your baits honestly. But you are totally crazy,



Yeah, right. Can you prove it ? In which category should I put your arrogance also ?

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I dont think I have insulted you at all but you carry on with this barrage of attacks on me. As for me having personality problems have you tried anger management? There Im trying to help you now does it feel helpful? But do show me proof that Ive lied. Just for the record your hypocritical because you admit you attack me then say I play a victim? Arnt I a victim of your i nsults? And yet you are the one acting crazily by your barrage of attack with no justication for it at all.

Okay so I main scholar and I don't see why people think dpsing has such an insurmountable skill gap, it's pretty soft even during progression. Even during our week one clears where people were dropping like flies there was room, is there really any excuse? You can literally have only dots rolling and hit the 80th. There are more holes in damage than there is Swiss cheese:confused:

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Originally Posted by Feyona

That is not actually true I have resonded to most people but if I dont agree I will say so. And why do you think its just me that does this. When have I ever seen a post that favours my views from you?

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If you're advocating that healers are pure healers and should never dps, you're not going to see me supporting that position. And that is actually the entire basis of this thread - looking at healer dps in another light, in support of healer dps.

As I've previously stated, you are, and have been, ignoring any posts by me and others that clearly state whether a healer can or even should dps is purely situational.

We have nothing further to learn from each other. This horse has been flogged beyond death into absurdity.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

If you're advocating that healers are pure healers and should never dps, you're not going to see me supporting that position. And that is actually the entire basis of this thread - looking at healer dps in another light, in support of healer dps.

As I've previously stated, you are, and have been, ignoring any posts by me and others that clearly state whether a healer can or even should dps is purely situational.

We have nothing further to learn from each other. This horse has been flogged beyond death into absurdity.

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I have never said that I support either view in fact called for choice, so everyone can enjiy themseves

I find it interesting that some of you act like people who don't main a healer, their opinions shouldn't count. I was a WHM main from BCOB and SCOB and cleared all content at the time with WHM, then equally with my DPS and Tank. Healing is not an exclusive club, it's just a role, like DPS or Tank.

With that said, I think we can ALL agree that there are room for improvement for every job out there, there are countless threads for them. DPS not playing to their full potential (low dps) or not using AOEs, tanks not using CDs for big pulls or not being conscious of aggro, bards never using songs, ninja goad, the list goes on and on. Healers are not being singled out as the only job for the opportunity to improve.

I'll get a little philosophical here. It all comes down to not wanting to fail. Here's a great quote from Michael Jordan - "I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can't accept not trying."

One can never find their own boundaries without ever pushing their boundaries. Yes, failure hurts but it's just an opportunity to learn, to tweak and make better, to understand your limits. The fear of failure causes a lot of needing to play "safe." Playing safe is absolutely fine. Dungeons still get cleared, duties still get completed. But you won't ever be the best version of yourself if you never try and accept that failure can happen. Unfortunately we are in an environment that people make very rash and hasty judgements and failure is just not acceptable. So, I can understand that mindset for the fear of being judged or kicked from a duty.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

I dont see any gaps at all when Im learng a fight, because Im too busy watching mechics abd watching health bars at first.

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Thus why I stand by my statement that recording your own gameplay is the single biggest means of improving your level of play. Even if you aren't concerned about DPS, your own recordings will show your faults and failings in beautiful, unflattering and utterly unbiased HD. This 'rubble' can then be used as foundations for a solid and dependable plan on how to improve, it will make you a better healer for it. Once your base line is more inline with where your groups want it to be, you'll find the confidence to throw out dots and save wipes will naturally follow.

Being stubborn and unwilling to listen, learn and adapt is significantly more detrimental to a group than doing little to no DPS.

Oh and to the 'no healer mains here' comment a few pages back, I've got a 4 digit Magelo profile that backs up nearly 18 years of healing experience. I suspect I've cast more heals than you've had hot dinners son :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by CreinCrein

Okay so I main scholar and I don't see why people think dpsing has such an insurmountable skill gap, it's pretty soft even during progression. Even during our week one clears where people were dropping like flies there was room, is there really any excuse? You can literally have only dots rolling and hit the 80th. There are more holes in damage than there is Swiss cheese:confused:

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We have already seen posts of people saying they can do it easily. sSome cant though and that was my point at least

Well everyone here acknowledges that other players have aptitude and some don't, but how about instead of trying to fit the square block into the circle hole, then blaming the system you fit the your block into the right spot and play with people that are accepting of your style.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Thus why I stand by my statement that recording your own gameplay is the single biggest means of improving your level of play.

Being stubborn and unwilling to listen, learn and adapt is significantly more detrimental to a group than doing little to no DPS.

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Oh Im not stubborn at all if you are refering to me. Ive learned healer dps as thats what people want of me i do it but even if I watched a hundred videos I wont relax until comfortable with fight actually doing it. And dont want to sound noobish and Im kind of new to playstation and think Ill have to work out how to it may help but maybe not my nerves :)

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Originally Posted by CreinCrein

Well everyone here acknowledges that other players have aptitude and some don't, but how about instead of trying to fit the square block into the circle hole, then blaming the system you fit the your block into the right spot and play with people that are accepting of your style.

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This wasnt the point to why I say thungs on here its expectation or forcing I have objected to and healers being harrassed to do it. If your comfortable with it its fine and want everyone to enjoy themselves just dont want pressure and stress put on me or others by the coms.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

Oh Im not stubborn at all if you are refering to me. Ive learned healer dps as thats what people want of me i do it but even if I watched a hundred videos I wont relax until comfortable with fight actually doing it.

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Indeed, it's a lot easier to follow your own gameplay particularly before you don't really grasp the finer details of an encounter. On a playstation I believe you need to setup the video share feature and stream it to youtube. I'm fairly certain you can record it to an unlisted private stream so having people jump on isn't a problem provided you set it up right.

Alright if you're being harassed it's either one of two things: either you're dealing with assholes or you're doing content that you do not meet the qualifications for. Can't do much about the first one, but as I tried to say if you're experiencing the second you need to find a place where your level of play is accepted and where you fit in. I'm pretty sure the personal attacks here are just because you fail to understand the fact that people who are sitting on the "optimization/push as much deeps as u can" argument are correct because that's how the metagame is and that will not change because of your opinion, ever. They're trying to help you understand but are getting frustrated. At the end of the day you do you, just don't get hurt when you're kicked out of a group because "doing you" is not letting other people "do them".

This is just like the energizer bunny. It keeps going and going and going..

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Originally Posted by CreinCrein

Alright if you're being harassed it's either one of two things:

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If I say here that its assholes I will get accused of blaming it on everything else. lets just say Im in a group, Im polite and I do what my group wants me to or try to. And no dont think its always the that its one of those things like the post earlier of a healer being harrassed so much to dps she left the group because it made her feel uncomfortable and ive already acknowledged that people are in the optimization stance but not everyone wants to be optimized in my opinion some just want to enjoy themselves and I stand with them on that. And you call that what I get frustration? Dont you think it was abit ott?

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Originally Posted by Feyona

I dont see any gaps at all when Im learng a fight, because Im too busy watching mechics abd watching health bars at first. Its like driving at first everying like junctions come up seeminglvery fast until you get used to it and driving itself you dont have to think about. To me learning fights is like learning to drive. I have healed so long now as a healer its always my main focus to keep people alive. I guess sometimes allowances are not made often for people that learn in different ways

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No worries, not everyone learns at the same rate. Just keep a positive attitude and maybe take the bus for now.

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Originally Posted by Coldstoni

And no one asked your opinion.
having to carry your sorry behind through content because your too lazy to Excell GOES BOTH WAYS

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Neither did we ask for yours. Funny thing about forums. People offer their opinions on a public discussion. Imagine that!

And since you're copping such a wonderful attitude, I decided to check your logs. Wouldn't know, someone claiming they'll "carry our sorry behinds" has no Savage clears. Maybe you shouldn't talk such a big game, hmm? :p

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Handling stance dancing in higher difficulty content is a lot different than stance dancing in a random dungeon. While I agree a healer that doesn't stance dance in higher content shouldn't be there. I'm speaking of DF, kicking someone from a dungeon because they're not stance dancing is a bit..dumb if you ask me. But that is my personal opinion and I'd rather not add more to this pointless argument that neither side are budging on. Thankfully for me I have yet to see people wanting to kick someone over something that is truly minor.

Edit: Well minor when it comes to DF to say at least.

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See, that's fair. Most of this thread has pertained to Savage. While I'll grumble over it whenever I go into Expert, I won't kick healers who won't DPS in dungeons. I'm also infinitely more patient with people still learning to DPS as a healer or new to whatever content entirely. All I ask is they vocalize this.

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Originally Posted by Tint

exactly this.

the whole idea of this topic is just beyond me.

arguing that more healer dps leads to more mitigation is correct. with more mitigation i have to heal less... so, i, a healer who just likes to heal, should dps more so i have to heal less? but healing is the part i want to do, and dpsing is the thing i don't want. so the more i dps the less can i do the thing i want to do?

how does anybody think that this whole idea of more dpsing = less healing could change the mindset of heal only healers?

i have only one soultion to the whole problem:

a new healer class wich does not dps, but has a lot of utility and party buffs to compensate for that. sadly, that's basically AST without cleric and better buffs, so i guess it won't happen xD
or an opposite scholar: a healer with a dpsing pet on auto pilot... yeah, i would like that...

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As others have already outlined, a job with little to no DPS will be completely shunned in Savage; more so than Paladin and White Mage already are now. You flatout wouldn't be accepted into a large amount of groups at Savage level content with a job like you're suggesting. XIV simply does not warrant enough dedicated healing for it to be viable. It's the primary reason White Mage has suffered this tier following Astro's god tier buffs. The devs designed it around be a burst heal job yet there is no fight in the entire game a Scholar or Astro cannot heal with near equal efficiency. Honestly, XIV needs to strongly consider nearing healer potency or increasing the outgoing damage if the devs want to disincentive the DPS meta. I'm on the camp believing they should, personally. It seems silly an optimal healer spends less time actually healing than they do dealing damage.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Neither did we ask for yours. Funny thing about forums. People offer their opinions on a public discussion. Imagine that

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Some of this is my point, non dps healer exclusion. Hope this is taken the right way though because people should still be ' allowed' to have a go at it so if healer dps didnt exist or was disabled people would still be trying and enjoying themselves without anyone needing to be excluded and no more arguments. I still think coldstoni is right it does go both ways like the group that kicked me were not playing optimally themselves and wanted a scholar to make up for their deficient dps. Were impatient so wanted a pro sch in two weeks. But failed still after I left. And ofc theire were other factors I already mentioned like learning fight and stuff but but without my healing they were unable to pull off any more clears because as stated before ,my healing was pretty high. You could say that the group as awhole needed lots of healing and the ast dpsed. But at one point I think I was doing 2 thirds more healing and she wasnt able to support the group while I dpsed. So no way was there space to learn it. Its so easy to blame healer dps not being there to account for failure but healing is definitely needed as well for sub par group. But will state here ther was over healing . Im not reall sure ifit was indom or succur caused it cos cant remember but I always shield befroe incoming damage im not sure if thats correct but Ive alwayss thought you shield to prevent damage and ofc succor has heals attached that may be the overheal.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

Actually that was refering to me and didnt you read back or something?

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Wat? I really don't understand. You keep saying "all those things they said about me" but what was it that was said about you that is so offensive and bannable? I'm truly wtf moment here.

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Originally Posted by CreinCrein

Okay so I main scholar and I don't see why people think dpsing has such an insurmountable skill gap, it's pretty soft even during progression. Even during our week one clears where people were dropping like flies there was room, is there really any excuse? You can literally have only dots rolling and hit the 80th. There are more holes in damage than there is Swiss cheese:confused:

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You said it yourself in the first sentence. You are a main scholar and others just aren't, so thats their "excuse". Also i don't think you can hit 80th that easily, just having dots up is not enough for that. As i said many times already, should healer dps (in theory) absolutely! But we have to remember that some people are just playing healer in random dungeons, because they want to exp an different role, instead of playing always dd for example. They just don't have the confidents, exp and skill to reach high dps and some of them do not even dps at all.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

snip

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Except no one has ever advocated nor blamed your lack of DPS relative to this supposed statics deficiency. That is your assumption. Every single post inevitably devolves into an imagined attack by the community on you and our unwillingness to accept heal only healers. I'll say what I said pages ago, if the group had poor DPS yet expected their healers to make up the difference, you are not at fault for their poor performance. Healers always have to adjust based upon the groups they are dealt or choice to play with. Where people here have taken umbrage is your insistence minimal DPS is okay and should be expected. That is a subjective stance a large portion of the raid community does not agree with. You can argue or cry foul all you fancy but it will not change their perspective. At the Savage level, expectations are significantly higher. If I can't manage 1500 DPS on A12S as a Dragoon, I'll be asked to practice or be kicked. When I initially stepped into raiding I was told to practice since my mechanical awareness needed work. None of us start off excellent.

Disabling DPS without radically adjusting healing potency or outgoing damage would result in an enormous backlash and I dare say the healer population would plummet.

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Originally Posted by Stormbad

Wat? I really don't understand. You keep saying "all those things they said about me" but what was it that was said about you that is so offensive and bannable? I'm truly wtf moment here.

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You didnt see? I'm not going to repeat it, or quote it, but if you accept that if you call someone names like 'crazy' or 'mad stalker' with personal, or detrimental intentions to 'attack' someone then it is bannable. And really all I have done on here is put over my point of view, respond to people's posts and correct people if they have made a statement about me that is incorrect, and there have been quite a few incorrect assumptions on here as well, even to the point of me being called a 'liar' just because what I said was misinterpreted. Perhaps its been removed now though.
' '

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Originally Posted by Feyona

Perhaps its been removed now though.
' '

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Nope.

/10char

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Disabling DPS without radically adjusting healing potency or outgoing damage would result in an enormous backlash and I dare say the healer population would plummet.

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where have I said that every post is an attack on me? if someone says Im lazy if I dont dps or says stuff like ' I will kick non dpsing healer' or says things like ' I dont attempt to dps' then I have corrected them. Or especially calls me a liar then its far from 'imagined' I think that the healing community wouldnt plummet at all just like othe games where you only heal, people like that role. Im not the only healer that feels this way and you dps would probably dps but everyone that likes healing would stay healing. How come everything would have to be adjusted when it was not scaled into it in the first place? And have to add here that I was trying to make a point that optimal performnce works both ways and trying to illustrate that using my static as an example not saying the communty here blamed my lack of dps but the group did. And the idea that sch has to dps was put there by the community in the first place or I wouldnt have been kicked or potentially excluded. I will also add here that many dps have healing classes as well, and if a group or an fc wanted or needed a healer for a particular clear, even if the person didnt like just healing would swap over to help the group. No one really has to do one role or the other, but I just see a problem with healers expected to do both at once for the reasons above

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Originally Posted by Wanzer

Nope.

/10char

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Just puzzled how stormblad didnt see it then. Or maybe hasnt read the rules

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Except no one has ever advocated nor blamed your lack of DPS relative to this supposed statics deficiency. That is your assumption. Every single post inevitably devolves into an imagined attack by the community on you and our unwillingness to accept heal only healers. I'll say what I said pages ago, if the group had poor DPS yet expected their healers to make up the difference, you are not at fault for their poor performance. Healers always have to adjust based upon the groups they are dealt or choice to play with. Where people here have taken umbrage is your insistence minimal DPS is okay and should be expected. That is a subjective stance a large portion of the raid community does not agree with. You can argue or cry foul all you fancy but it will not change their perspective. At the Savage level, expectations are significantly higher. If I can't manage 1500 DPS on A12S as a Dragoon, I'll be asked to practice or be kicked. When I initially stepped into raiding I was told to practice since my mechanical awareness needed work. None of us start off excellent.

Disabling DPS without radically adjusting healing potency or outgoing damage would result in an enormous backlash and I dare say the healer population would plummet.

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Quoted for truth, justice and the onion way. <3

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Originally Posted by Feyona

if you accept that if you call someone names like 'crazy' or 'mad stalker' with personal, or detrimental intentions to 'attack' someone then it is bannable.

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I was going to keep quiet but I'm going to speak up because you are talking about being petty enough to even mention reporting someone who has not attacked you at all (you even admitted to not having quotes of directly malicious behavior) and has simply observed your behavior. You have voliated several rules, one of which being the double posting, triple posting and even quadruple posting that you have been doing which has inflated this thread at least 20 pages on its own, and that could be seen as violating the following:

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Posting spam, including meaningless characters and white space.

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And thats only the most minor rules break, you have also heavily contributed to the following:

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Posting aimed to create a negative impact on the community or its members.

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This is where you think you are in the right and do not contribute to discussion, instead furthering your own goals by acting attacked. This inflates the thread, and creates victims out of several members of the community who are only trying to help the discussion remain positive (again, threatening and accusing based on nothing is an attack). You have brought the tone of this thread down, and that IS against the forum rules. But again, nobody is going to report you for it because we are better than that.

Please don't be petty, the people around you have been extreamly reasonable, and that has been shown countless times.

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Originally Posted by era1Ne

You said it yourself in the first sentence. You are a main scholar and others just aren't, so thats their "excuse".

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I was speaking within the contexts of savage, and if I'm able to see and exploit the gaps in savage that means they exist. Also, I don't care what anyone does in a casual dungeon, you could be spamming ruin 1 on smn and personally, I'd just go about my business; if it's soft content then just do you, but when you do savage it's assumed that you enter the content competent on your class and to the expectations of your group. Also, yeah you can have only dots rolling and hit the 80th. My co-healer has recently been solo healing A12S on our sales runs, and just through dot reapplication and the odd malefic he's able to hit 75-85th. Swiss cheese man

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Please don't be petty, the people around you have been extreamly reasonable, and that has been shown countless times.

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I think you will find most of my posts were responses to others just like this one. Please prove that what I have said was designed to have a negative impact on the community just because I have a different opinion? That is not against the rules whereas calling people names like 'mad stalker' is. White space imaydue to error on my part and Im not spamming im responding to posts. Just because my opinion is different to yours it isnt an offence to have one or this would not be a dicussion but a dictatorsip, where everyone has to think the same way im sorry if my opinions have a negati ve effect on you but that may be because you cant accept it and that isnt my problem its yours.I have to add here as well though what was the intention of this post? If not to yet again 'have a go' at me.Tthis was designed to have a negative impact on me and it is not contributing to the discussion either. Also where is this white space and meaningless characters I cant see it. I think majority of my posts were pertainent to the discussion whearas calling someone a liar or crazy isnt please look up the word 'hypocracy' just for educational purposes , as Im trying to give you advice here so maybe you could view it as 'helpful' or not as you choose. Just as you think you have been helpful to me. If your part of a group dicussion you will have to accept different opinions or not take part bar being called names of course. but I dont think I have personally insulted any one here by calling them names in a very personal or derrogatory way in fact its the opposite. but you dont see that lowered the tone

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Originally Posted by Feyona

'mad stalker'

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Nope. Never said this.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

just because I have a different opinion? [...] Just because my opinion is different to yours it isnt an offence to have one

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This is not the problem here. But... As we are going back in time, again :

http://i.imgur.com/4x0u0OJ.gif

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Originally Posted by Feyona

Please prove that what I have said was designed to have a negative impact on the community just because I have a different opinion?

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Ok, you want to see the hostility?

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Originally Posted by Feyona

My argument being faulty is debateable coming from a subjective viewpoint

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(which can be reworded to My argument isn't faulty because I don't think it is)

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Originally Posted by Feyona

To even suggest theres an issue with healer dps is often put put down and sometimes aggressively or bitchily just proves how hostile the community is towards those that cant or dont do it.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

Tbh even if you explain yourself its still taken as refusal or too lazy to learn or the best one is 'why should a group carry you' or 'put up with you' ' your slowing us down' ' your hurting the group' go learn elsewhere dps or gtfo. You make it sound like peoples's attitudes are so reasonable towards those that try.

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(Scroll down to see the attitudes towards those who try and have a good attitude)

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Originally Posted by Feyona

So you automatically assume that I suck? (Note: in itself a baseless assumption, this wasn't ever stated) an How is that helping? When I already know how to dps and know the 'benefits' but I think to me the expection itself is a problem and please stop being personal you dont know me, or how I play

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(this was in response to attitude shown on the forums)

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Originally Posted by Feyona

Im sorry you will be immediately 'jumped on ' for it. Sadly all you will get is ' advice' on how you should 'improve yourself'

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Originally Posted by Feyona

I think she may not respond because she doesnt have a justifiable answer.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

When have I ever seen a post that favours my views from you?

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Originally Posted by Feyona

I guess allowances are not made often for people that learn in different ways

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(Scroll down to see said allowances)

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Originally Posted by Feyona

If I say here that its assholes I will get accused of blaming it on everything else.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

Omg the insults just keep pouring out dont they victim, crazy, paranoid, liar, now strange stalker what next lol? I think its you that has issues dont project your messed up stuff onto me

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(Overblown, exaggeration of attacks that were not malicious)

And the posts that we have been making?

In response to someone with a positive attitude:

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Wow I think you are doing absolutely amazing. Your attitude is so great too I wouldn't even mind if you were only managed to do 10 DPS in a whole run.

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Not every "non-DPS" healer is like that, and we can unanimously agree that healers who idle are terrible. It is this kind of hostility and accusation that forms these threads, and I'd rather avoid attacking people and scaring off healers who are potentially not skilled enough, but are open to improvement.

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Well everyone here acknowledges that other players have aptitude and some don't

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At the risk of stretching this out; have a look over my logs, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a crummy DPS when it comes to progression content but yet I do absolutely fine.

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In response to a healer who wasn't confident (those who you are championing to defend):

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I think you might be a bit overly careful here. :) I've done some Savage and Extreme learning parties lately and with DF or PF pugs they tend to be messy enough that healers are busy just healing at start, and that's fine

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No, the "lazy healer" comments have been directed to the healers who refuse to be helpful to their party when they could all along. The "lol no I won't DPS because I'm a healer, I'll just /moogledance while I watch you work for our group goals instead" crowd. And this has been explained again and again in this thread.

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No one is going to (or at least they definitely shouldn't) give you a hard time on this, especially since you're talking about doing dungeons and not trying to join a Savage static.

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To sum up the argument:

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no one has ever advocated nor blamed your lack of DPS relative to this supposed statics deficiency. That is your assumption.

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Tbh I think 90% of players wont even realise that if it's outside of EX Primal or Savage Alex, so you shouldn't worry too much about it.
That isn't even the problem at all, at least not for most people. It is absolutely fine to play it safe and careful if you are not familiar with the situation.

Like Lambdafish said before: It's the attitude that counts!

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To conclude: you have a lot of predetermined assumptions about the community and that comes across negatively here, the fact that your arguement doesn't correlate with the evidence shows this assumption. And the hostility comes when people point out that this assumption makes your point objectively incorrect.

Theres a tonne more but I have already wasted too much time on this post that will only be met with "Stop insulting me".

Anyway, enough lowering myself to the negativity for me, anyone want to positively talk about healing?

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

In response to a healer who wasn't confident (those who you are championing to defend):





To sum up the argument:






To conclude: you have a lot of predetermined assumptions about the community and that comes across negatively here, the fact that your arguement doesn't correlate with the evidence shows this assumption. And the hostility comes when people point out that this assumption makes your point objectively incorrect.

Theres a tonne more but I have already wasted too much time on this post that will only be met with "Stop insulting me".

Anyway, enough lowering myself to the negativity for me, anyone want to positively talk about healing?

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Why havent you put the posts in that I was responding to? Isnt this a little one sided? And most of those responses were factual rather than hostile maybe its you that imagines attacks maybe?

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Originally Posted by Feyona

Why havent you put the posts in that I was responding to? Isnt this a little one sided? And most of those responses were factual rather than hostile maybe its you that imagines attacks maybe?

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Because any hostility towards you has been in response to the quotes from you, you commented that you were "crazy" and "victimising" because you were hostile, unfair, and downright ignorant of your peers. And any "factual response" that you have given is in in the context of your own argument. All I actually know about your argument is that it is something to do with "unfair treatment"? Which is a topic that was discussed at length at your request and what I personally got from that was abuse from you about how I attacked you. I tried to help, I even defended you multiple times against my better judgement, and you threw that back at me, like you have multiple people, because anyone touching or amending your argument is an attack on you personally in your opinion.

Hey I know Fey personally and she a dam great healer we have done a9s, a10s and a11s together as healers. I never had to come out of cleric to heal at all only if someone dies by mistake and heal them back up. You say that Fey hostility yet you pick all her comments and change the context of them and no one else can see the replies unless they want go through hundreds of pages to see them to what was said to them. Fey praise people that dps and heal but if she not comfortable doing it up to her and that don't make no more a team player in groups then anyone specially if she main healer. its a joke to call fey hostility because she one of the most nice people that will help in anything no matter what it is. Plus how can you say much about healing when you only have a sch and from what it seems and you main all tank class I'm guesting when it comes to alexander savage you only have a tanking outlook.

Fey has got a lot old post of hostility just for showing her opinion about not want to dps if that person just was to heal only. Plus saying your lowering "yourself" I think anyone would take that as personal attack on themselves from the way you context that.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Anyway, enough lowering myself to the negativity for me, anyone want to positively talk about healing?

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I enjoy the supportive aspect of healing; I'd just like to see more to it than the damage and healing dealt by itself. That said, I don't want to be cycling through buff maintenance either, as I've seen suggested as an alternative for filler time. Any ideas?

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Because any hostility towards you has been in response to the quotes from you, you got called "crazy" and "victimising" because you were hostile, unfair, and downright ignorant of your peers. And any "factual response" that you have given is in in the context of your own argument. All I actually know about your argument is that it is something to do with "unfair treatment"?

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You actually think that insulting someone personally is constructive and helpful and you are actually supporting it beggars belief. And when you say 'peers' it comes across like 'betters' somehow because the only people you like the posts you like are those that suggest they will do as they are told and dps as healer and take your advice which is so off the mark if you dont heal yourself much how can you mentor them in savage?

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Originally Posted by Feyona

You actually think that insulting someone personally is constructive and helpful and you are actually supporting it beggars belief.

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Please show some concrete examples (quotes within context) these "insults" directed towards you in this thread? From what I've seen, and I've been following this thread quite a lot, most of the hostility has come from a single person, and that is you.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

And when you say 'peers' it comes across like 'betters' somehow because the only people you like the posts you like are those that suggest they will do as they are told and dps as healer

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Here you go with the asumptions again. It would be much more constructive if you would try to read what people actually write instead of making assumptions that don't have anything to do with the words in the posts.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

and take your advice which is so off the mark if you dont heal yourself much how can you mentor them in savage?

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I'm main healer (have been since 1.0, WHM and SCH), have cleared A12S before echo, and can support their advice. But I don't think you should require a person to have certain experience or skill level to be allowed to take part in discussion. Of course if advice is given, it's often good to take a look at the background of a person who is giving it.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by Feyona

It was removed I think cant see it Im afraid. But lamdafish has said why I was called it so theres your evidence

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Since it's been made clear no posts haven't been moderated, and you have nothing to show, it is quite clear there aren't and haven't been any messages insulting you.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

where have I said that every post is an attack on me? if someone says Im lazy if I dont dps or says stuff like ' I will kick non dpsing healer' or says things like ' I dont attempt to dps' then I have corrected them. Or especially calls me a liar then its far from 'imagined' I think that the healing community wouldnt plummet at all just like othe games where you only heal, people like that role. Im not the only healer that feels this way and you dps would probably dps but everyone that likes healing would stay healing. How come everything would have to be adjusted when it was not scaled into it in the first place? And have to add here that I was trying to make a point that optimal performnce works both ways and trying to illustrate that using my static as an example not saying the communty here blamed my lack of dps but the group did. And the idea that sch has to dps was put there by the community in the first place or I wouldnt have been kicked or potentially excluded. I will also add here that many dps have healing classes as well, and if a group or an fc wanted or needed a healer for a particular clear, even if the person didnt like just healing would swap over to help the group. No one really has to do one role or the other, but I just see a problem with healers expected to do both at once for the reasons above

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Lambdafish already post a compilation. Your posts frequently devolve into playing the victim or twisting the narrative to better suit your stance. Case in point, you cite things going "both ways" yet none of us have disagreed with the assertion. I and others have repeatedly acknowledge a static requiring healer DPS to mask their own poor performance is simply a bad group. People only started taking issue when you continuously defended only healing regardless of circumstance. We really cannot break this down further but I shall try. Healers should DPS, provided they have ample opportunity to do so. Adjustments needs be made dependent on group performance, experience and knowledge of the fight. Bear in mind, some groups will be less impatient than others and that is not necessarily a slight against them. It can be frustrating to watch people fail mechanics you already know. Nevertheless, if you come across a group who doesn't leave up to their lofty goals, is toxic or the dynamic just doesn't fit. Look elsewhere. If you're kicked, evaluate why and see if there is anything you could change when applying for another static. Sometimes, people are just jerks though.

Putting all that aside, no other game has the absurdly high healing potency XIV does. WoW requires dedicated healing lest the target play die from even simple attacks. Comparatively, XIV asks the White Mage only toss a single Cure II and a constantly refreshed Regen to top the tank off. Without DPSing, you will literally stand around doing nothing even in Savage. There simply isn't enough outgoing damage to warrant the power healers exhibit. This DPS meta exists for that reason. If the devs simply removed Cleric with no further adjustment, they've essentially told healers "do nothing for 50-80% of content". It isn't hard to see why many would be put off playing the role or quit the game entirely. Yoshi even acknowledged this very fact despite his dislike of Cleric.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I enjoy the supportive aspect of healing; I'd just like to see more to it than the damage and healing dealt by itself. That said, I don't want to be cycling through buff maintenance either, as I've seen suggested as an alternative for filler time. Any ideas?

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Generally speaking, the only things we can do in the game are: dealing damage, healing damage, buffing self and allies, debuffing enemies. Offensive buffs and debuffs are probably the most lacking element in the healer tool kits, AST being the only one with multiple of them.