Can we please ban advertisements for selling clears from PF?

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

There is a reason why SE is so tight on their evidence policy, and it is because

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they like money.

The Ungarmax Exploit and Our Response

A Reminder about the Prohibition of Real Money Trading (RMT) (made after a FC was named)

BLU EXP exploit

Regarding the Fraudulent Purchase of Optional Items

Do you know how many players were permanently banned from all of those combined? Just one.

Account Penalty Policy

'■Types of penalty
There are six levels of penalty in ascending order of severity: "Caution", "Warning", "Temporary Service Account Suspension (3 Days)", "Temporary Service Account Suspension (10 Days)", "Temporary Service Account Suspension (20 Days)", "Service Account Termination".'

tl;dr SE will only ban its customers as an absolute last resort even if they have all the proof in the world.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

and it is because they only accept evidence that they themselves can verify as truthful within the resources that they have.

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Had that with Feast chat and they decided to remove it.

No one is suggesting they issue account action off third-party evidence, but if they get enough reports, you'd think they'd at least start an investigation.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

A ToS change would be horrible because it would allow people to fake evidence and get innocent people banned. There is a reason why SE is so tight on their evidence policy, and it is because they only accept evidence that they themselves can verify as truthful within the resources that they have. I would much rather a ToS that allows people to post RMT in PF than one that allows malicious people to get whoever they want banned with fake evidence.

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Yes, because changing ToS is equal to people being able to have malicious players banned due to fake evidence. Kind of like how the offensive language ToS got changed and suddenly we lost a ton of players due to 'fake evidence'.

Oh wait. That didn't happen. How do you prove something that cannot be proven without saying 'You said XYZ, therefore you are breaking such and such rule'? Because that is our current rule set right now, where GMs must use circumstantial evidence as proof since absolutely nothing can be done otherwise. Again, they are not allowed to be able to do their own job with what we got. So how do you think anyone can get punished for RMT when it comes to selling content right now?

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

How many “innocent accounts” are on PF selling clears saying they need to discuss payment terms on discord?

And I’m glad you are against the PF mislistings but can you please tone it down a little and not take what I’m saying to some extreme conclusion?

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I am not saying that it is what you suggest, but I am saying that it is very hard to make a rule that would not target people who links to other things other than run-selling as well while still having an effective rule that is not walked around like the current rules are (which are very clear on this topic that RMT is forbidden no matter what). The reason why they discuss prices on discord is in the first place because these people are getting around the rules in place, they will get around most rules you could possibly put up in place to avoid this without disrupting normal players' activities, which is wherein my primary concern about this rests as SE is very consistent in how they treat their rules, which is a good thing, but it also means that if they would put in something like this it would be bothersome.

The only hard rule I can think about that would not be TOO disruptive is if they straight out banned links to external websites or such and any kind of way to mask links to external websites, then again, this rule would also hit hard on any and all FCs who have a discord server for their FC or any outside way to communicate at all as all of those would as well technically break the rules.

Also, you talk about me taking what you say to some extreme conclusion when you assume I defend RMT because I do not want rules that could harm people for doing legit activities. I am not really worried about what you think they should do as I agree with you in spirit to what they should do, ban people who sell runs for RMT, but I am very vary of how these sorts of rules would probably have to be shaped to have any real effect, and knowing from parsers rules and profanity rules I am almost 100% certain that SE would uphold these rules even when they clash against the spirit of the rule to be consistent, which is no fault, but still something to take into account on this topic.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

I am not saying that it is what you suggest, but I am saying that it is very hard to make a rule that would not target people who links to other things other than run-selling as well while still having an effective rule that is not walked around like the current rules are (which are very clear on this topic that RMT is forbidden no matter what). The reason why they discuss prices on discord is in the first place because these people are getting around the rules in place, they will get around most rules you could possibly put up in place to avoid this without disrupting normal players' activities, which is wherein my primary concern about this rests as SE is very consistent in how they treat their rules, which is a good thing, but it also means that if they would put in something like this it would be bothersome.

The only hard rule I can think about that would not be TOO disruptive is if they straight out banned links to external websites or such and any kind of way to mask links to external websites, then again, this rule would also hit hard on any and all FCs who have a discord server for their FC or any outside way to communicate at all as all of those would as well technically break the rules.

Also, you talk about me taking what you say to some extreme conclusion when you assume I defend RMT because I do not want rules that could harm people for doing legit activities. I am not really worried about what you think they should do as I agree with you in spirit to what they should do, ban people who sell runs for RMT, but I am very vary of how these sorts of rules would probably have to be shaped to have any real effect, and knowing from parsers rules and profanity rules I am almost 100% certain that SE would uphold these rules even when they clash against the spirit of the rule to be consistent, which is no fault, but still something to take into account on this topic.

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Forgive me then for misrepresenting you, I feel like we’re getting off on the wrong foot, I’m proposing specifically wording in the TOS related to advertising clear selling that forced the buyer to conduct business with them outside of the game, the wording could be specific enough so it’s clearly only targeting that and not static/FC/etc discords.

In any event I just wish they would do some policing of PF I would love to be able to open PF and see people actually look for the content they are listing under instead of seeing a bunch of ex roulletes at the top because people think they are more important than everyone else in advertising their static/clear sells/etc and not have to change my filters every time I log back in.

Too be honest I wish I would see more of this. Of course not with real money, but I miss the days when MMOs had player based business. I had a great time selling teleports in Jueno. Ultima Online had player vendors, people would open up their own shops, just feels more like a world and less like a hub based gear treadmill.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

What Kaeden said is absolutely correct.

The ingame economy supports players exchanging goods and services. Buying a clear from a player is no different than buying an item from them, or paying them to overmeld your gear. It's how the gil is obtained that is the biggest point of contention, and the RMT argument is completely separate from the "buying clears" argument.

Whether that makes it fair or right that players should be allowed to be carried through content is a reasonable debate, but as far as terms of service goes, its perfectly valid, and will never be banned.

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They should be banned for miss-labeling. I don't actually care if someone wants to spend a ridiculous amount of money on content that will obsolete in a month or two. Or even gil. What I DO care about is people mislabeling their posts in PF so they appear at the top. It makes it a mess so when someone wants to make an actual PF for Expert (like we used to back in the day) it gets lost or looked over in all the static requests and content selling. This should be a bannable offense. From using PF certainly and possibly even a soft ban from the game. I know its harsh but I am so sick and tired of it. I miss using Party Finder to find an actual party to run Expert with instead of bare DF. So I don't always have freaking heal when I don't feel like waiting 10-15 minutes.

An easy fix would be to ad a Static tab for those who want to advertise for that. Content sellers well, I dont care where they go so long as its not at the top of the list under the Expert label. It has made PF garbage for standand duties. Please fix, SE or give us an abuse of in-game apps report options right in PF like you do in the chat log for RMT. Or just that option in the report settings, period. I can copy and paste the offenders myself.

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It's honestly pathetic that people are willing to shell out that much money just for one clear of content.

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People pay a lot of money for stuff that doesnt make sense.

In games where leveling is difficult, you can sell powerleveling services for FAR more than makes any reasonable sense. You can make thousands a month botting 1 or 2 specific spawns on EQ's TLP servers now, and I assume if wow vanilla has any amount of traction and stability after a few months, you can do the same there.

Its actually healthy for the playerbase, especially in games where you trade currency for game time tokens for $. Players who farm / sell content can pay nothing to very little, people who want to just dump money can, and those who want to go hardcore and sell discounted game time can, and the company still gets 100% of their cut because every one of those in the world was sold at full price.

At least it's hidden away in PF. In WoW, city chat is 90% run sellers (for gold). I suspect the gold sellers have found this a faster way to get gold to sell for cash than just gathering stuff.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Forgive me then for misrepresenting you, I feel like we’re getting off on the wrong foot, I’m proposing specifically wording in the TOS related to advertising clear selling that forced the buyer to conduct business with them outside of the game, the wording could be specific enough so it’s clearly only targeting that and not static/FC/etc discords.

In any event I just wish they would do some policing of PF I would love to be able to open PF and see people actually look for the content they are listing under instead of seeing a bunch of ex roulletes at the top because people think they are more important than everyone else in advertising their static/clear sells/etc and not have to change my filters every time I log back in.

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Yes, they need to change it so that if you do things like this you either have to do it in the relevant content OR (better yet) in "Other". PF needs policing 100% and to post things with iLvl requirement 999 in PF for Titania EX to avoid people actually joining your party should be seen as disruptive behavior as you are not having any intentions at all to run that content with the people who contact you, which could be seen as spam. These things I definitely agree on as this is easy to fix and could not in any plausible way affect anyone "innocent".

I was under the impression it's always been banned, just badly enforced.

I don't know much about the run selling business (except that it's RMT plain and simple, it should be bannable on sight, there is no "innocent until proven guilty" when the guilt is self-evident) however one thing I think should be 100% reportable and punishable is people using inappropriate categories for advertising. Listing their RMT nonsense as "Expert Roulette" to push it to the top of the list is annoying. I wish those people would either be forced to use "None" or a dedicated "Advertisement" category that goes to the rock bottom of the list.

It wouldn't solve the problem but, if enforced, would make me see it less, which would be the second best thing.

You can change the order they're displayed, from ascending to descending (or vice versa). This is what I have done and now I can completely avoid the "Roulettes" until they get fixed.

I have a couple party finder QOL suggestions from another topic if you haven't read them:

1. Allow players to right-click on a party finder name and click "Add to Blacklist" if the PF description is not to the players' liking.

2. The parties of the players on the blacklist should go on the back end of the party list where the locked duties are.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

I was under the impression it's always been banned, just badly enforced.

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One might actually think so, but oddly enough it isn't. In ToS there is a rule against spamming, but that one does only refer to chat and log mail, and does not include PF. So for this to be activity against ToS it has to be proven that it is an activity related to ToS to do anything at all with the current rules.

"・Spamming
This means using chat (including Quick Chat and Emote) to obstruct another person's conversation, or obstruct the use of mog letters, etc., for example, by sending an excessive number of unnecessary items in mog letters, etc. Even if obstruction was not the objective of the behaviour, it may be deemed a violation if another player is actually obstructed by the behaviour."

There is, oddly enough, not a single rule about PF when it comes to this, which is almost 100% why it is the preferred channel to promote your services.

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Originally Posted by TheLittlestLala

I've noticed that every single one of these things says "add on discord for info", which is basically code for "pay us real money".

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it doesn't mean anything...

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

it doesn't mean anything...

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It means exactly that, one person in this thread has been contacting them from the Discords on the PF listings and they give price in USD =(

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

It means exactly that, one person in this thread has been contacting them from the Discords on the PF listings and they give price in USD =(

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While it is heavily implied (why else would you refuse to speak about details in game?), it is impossible to prove that this is what it means until you visit that discord, at which point SE can’t prove if you are just faking a chatlog or not.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

While it is heavily implied (why else would you refuse to speak about details in game?), it is impossible to prove that this is what it means until you visit that discord, at which point SE can’t prove if you are just faking a chatlog or not.

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True I realize SE can’t prove it, I just meant as players we know what it means

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

While it is heavily implied (why else would you refuse to speak about details in game?), it is impossible to prove that this is what it means until you visit that discord, at which point SE can’t prove if you are just faking a chatlog or not.

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But... why do they have to prove it? They don't have to build a court case to ban RMT perpetrators who are trying to circumvent the rules. It's SE's own privately owned platform so there should be nothing stopping a GM from infiltrating the discord, being given the price and being like. "Surprise! You're all banned!"

Actually, why don't they just do it arbitrarily as soon as they see the PF entry? Any action against RMT is better than inaction.

I think it's honestly just silly people would shell that much money for any of these clears.

XIV is a game where everything becomes easier overtime due to IL increasing, more levels being adding, potency increasing, more utility being offered, and honestly just the idea that we run through the SAME content so often you'll have plenty of time to shill into it to practice to breakup the norm.

The 1st tier savage gear is going to be outdated as soon as 5.2 in Jan/Feb and the only thing bringing people back would really be the completionist sake or just the mount. Past that everything else you can grab overtime as weapon augmentation tokens become available outside Savage.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

But... why do they have to prove it? They don't have to build a court case to ban RMT perpetrators who are trying to circumvent the rules. It's SE's own privately owned platform so there should be nothing stopping a GM from infiltrating the discord, being given the price and being like. "Surprise! You're all banned!"

Actually, why don't they just do it arbitrarily as soon as they see the PF entry? Any action against RMT is better than inaction.

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I said that some pages ago, because it would look extremely bad if someone started to post on forums about getting banned for no reason in ToS at all without SE being able to back themselves up. The rage we see now about people who are upset because they get banned for "minor" offenses such as tossing profanity and slurs left and right would be a breeze compared to the reaction from something like this, and it could hurt customer trust as no one would dare to pay sub for a game when the picture is painted that you can get banned for no reason at all.

I mean, how safe would you feel if they started to ban people without them breaking ToS?

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Originally Posted by Noitems

I think it's honestly just silly people would shell that much money for any of these clears.

XIV is a game where everything becomes easier overtime due to IL increasing, more levels being adding, potency increasing, more utility being offered, and honestly just the idea that we run through the SAME content so often you'll have plenty of time to shill into it to practice to breakup the norm.

The 1st tier savage gear is going to be outdated as soon as 5.2 in Jan/Feb and the only thing bringing people back would really be the completionist sake or just the mount. Past that everything else you can grab overtime as weapon augmentation tokens become available outside Savage.

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Yeah, I can't get people paying money for clears, for that money I could buy myself food to last me those 6 months that gear is going to last me. But people spend money on what they spend money on. I can to an even lesser extend grasp why people pay heavy money to poison themselves, but still a large part of the world does this.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

I mean, how safe would you feel if they started to ban people without them breaking ToS?

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There is no rule against posting parses in chat. If someone does post them, SE assumes they were parsing, despite having no proof. How many complaints have you seen from players being penalized as a result?

If you make certain remarks to the rest of the party right before you plan to leave a duty and take a penalty but your power or internet goes out, you could be penalized for attempting to avoid the 30 minute lockout. Again, no proof here and SE will assume.

Not being able to prove anything because communication occurs on third-party apps goes both ways. How would someone prove they were innocent? If so-called innocent players were getting scooped up, that means the actual RMTers would be gone, so you wouldn't see too much opposition to it.

except that there is no chance for a "legit" clear seller to get falsely banned unless they deliberately write their PF listing like a RMT one.
There is ZERO need to move the discussion to discord/outside the game RIGHT AWAY unless you plan to engage in RMT. If a discord should be required for VC, call-outs ect, then there is enough space to write so in the PF. And there is also enough space to write out something like "for Gil only" in the PF. (I have actually seen such a PF listing during the last month)

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There is ZERO need to move the discussion to discord/outside the game RIGHT AWAY unless you plan to engage in RMT.

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Of course there is. Its for the same reason I move any questions about tradeskilling away from the game client.

Our chat system is ABYSMAL compared to discord, slack, smoke signals, text messages or carrier pigeons. It cant handle multiple item links in a line, it cant handle item links in a line of text, it reverts to your default channel if you link an item in a response to someone using the reply keyboard shortcut (which means its just awful to send tells with links) it automatically scrolls to the bottom of a chat window as soon as ANY new text is added to that window, and you're overly restricted both on text length and content. We're also limited to 4 text windows and don't have an option for separate windows for tells from individual players (you know, things that have been standard in MMO's for a decade or more)

Its easier and faster to say 'poke me on discord at barraind.####' than it is to attempt to hold any conversation about anything important using in game methods. I can also say 'f**k that' in discord without risking a suspension.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

There is no rule against posting parses in chat. If someone does post them, SE assumes they were parsing, despite having no proof. How many complaints have you seen from players being penalized as a result?

If you make certain remarks to the rest of the party right before you plan to leave a duty and take a penalty but your power or internet goes out, you could be penalized for attempting to avoid the 30 minute lockout. Again, no proof here and SE will assume.

Not being able to prove anything because communication occurs on third-party apps goes both ways. How would someone prove they were innocent? If so-called innocent players were getting scooped up, that means the actual RMTers would be gone, so you wouldn't see too much opposition to it.

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There is a rule against using third party tools for the game, and by posting parsers you are literally in game admitting to using them one way or another, as how else would you be possible to post them? This is the huge difference, it is said IN GAME. This is why streamers are not getting banned left and right for using parsers on stream.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

There is a rule against using third party tools for the game, and by posting parsers you are literally in game admitting to using them one way or another, as how else would you be possible to post them? This is the huge difference, it is said IN GAME. This is why streamers are not getting banned left and right for using parsers on stream.

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If someone was uploading the runs to FFLogs you could go grab the numbers from there. You don't need to be the person running ACT to be able to see and grab the results.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Case in point, thank you, no one saying they have to discuss payment terms on Discord is selling for just gil, there any many other examples of this on Reddit as well. I have a feeling people who don’t want to ban PFs that are demanding people go on Discord to discuss payment are RMT themselves.

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No. It’s simply that they recognize the issues behind blindly banning players with no proof that they are actually participating in RMT. You would be acting purely on an assumption with no proof or evidence behind it. Unfortunately, the GMs/STF don’t want to accept third-party screenshots, like the one Alpha linked due to the fear of them being manipulated. But that’s a separate issue entirely.

Trying to insinuate that people who say “you can’t just ban the PFs because there’s no evidence proving any wrong-doing” support and/or participate in RMT is wrong on your part. It’s just like saying that those who say “I’m not bothered by those who buy/sell clears” buy or sell clears themselves: a baseless assumption and unnecessary ad hominem.

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

If someone was uploading the runs to FFLogs you could go grab the numbers from there. You don't need to be the person running ACT to be able to see and grab the results.

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Even discussing FFLogs in-game comes with a risk. And there’s no way to prove that you got the numbers from the site or weren’t using a parser yourself. You posted information you “aren’t allowed to have”, and that’s what the GMs see when they look at chat logs and reports. Not your browser history of going to FFLogs to pull numbers beforehand.

That’s why people advocate for not talking about it at all. There’s just too much risk involved. In a perfect world, people wouldn’t report you for simply telling someone their damage numbers if they ask about them, or mentioning damage in a polite, constructive. But this is far from a perfect world, and any mention of parsing is construed as a personal attack even by those who aren’t being spoken to about it.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

No. It’s simply that they recognize the issues behind blindly banning players with no proof that they are actually participating in RMT.

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Where are people getting the idea that SE would ban players out of the blue? If they decided to take action against it they would make an announcement on the lodestone indicating a change in policy and GMs would provide warnings. Anyone banned would have been well aware of the change and would have been asking for it at that point.

It's not like legit groups wouldn't be able to sell, they just couldn't use PF to advertise. Chat (which has a working blacklist function) and the internet would still be viable.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

Of course there is. Its for the same reason I move any questions about tradeskilling away from the game client.

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You also forgot the fact that there are many people in a discord group that would likely be offline on XIV.

If I leave a legit sell party in PF and AFK. So long as they follow the link and post in the discord, anyone who is part of the sale group can take that persons request without needing to be ingame. Convenience is as much a factor in leaving an immediate discord link and is just as likely a scenario as RMT (if not more likely so long as you aren't a cynic).

You see this kind of behavior everywhere, from FC invites to static invites to selling crafted items. Discord is straight up more convenient for the party organizer, regardless of intent.

Basically, what I'm trying to get across in all my posts in this thread: SE changing anything in the ToS or doing anything to ban PF sellers that look legit will simply harm those who are innocent and not the RMT sellers.

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

I have a couple party finder QOL suggestions from another topic if you haven't read them:

1. Allow players to right-click on a party finder name and click "Add to Blacklist" if the PF description is not to the players' liking.

2. The parties of the players on the blacklist should go on the back end of the party list where the locked duties are.

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This is the best idea I have seen in this thread. It won't get innocent people banned, and fixes the supposed inconvenience that these parties cause people.

Edit: I just tested this, the first one is possible if you send a random tell to the person (or join the persons party if they havent set the ilvl to 999) and blacklist them that way, what happens is the party becomes greyed out (shown in the below screenshot). The simple QoL change of making it so BL people appear on the bottom would be great.

https://i.imgur.com/0phcwd9.jpg

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Basically, what I'm trying to get across in all my posts in this thread: SE changing anything in the ToS or doing anything to ban PF sellers that look legit will simply harm those who are innocent and not the RMT sellers.

This is the best idea I have seen in this thread. It won't get innocent people banned, and fixes the supposed inconvenience that these parties cause people.

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They wouldn't be "innocent" if they were performing actions that were against the revised ToS. You say "innocent" but then the ads you show both already violate the ToS as it is now as account piloting (required for Ultimates, BA and Eureka) is prohibited. I don't think I've seen a single "legit" ad since the expansion launched.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

They wouldn't be "innocent" if they were performing actions that were against the revised ToS. You say "innocent" but then the ads you show both already violate the ToS as it is now as account piloting (required for Ultimates, BA and Eureka) is prohibited. I don't think I've seen a single "legit" ad since the expansion launched.

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Thats exactly my point. I'm saying that creating this change would make currently completely innocent people a victim of persecution. The attitude of many people towards their wishes for the ToS is scarily totalitarian.

The people in the image, by virtue of the image alone are breaking no rules in the slightest (other than maybe posting in the wrong section - which IMO is hardly a bannable offence), there is no mention of RMT, and no mention of anything unsavoury in the slightest (if you could point me to hard evidence of account piloting I would be impressed). While yes you are right that once you get outside of game things will likely become RMT and against ToS, that is entirely an assumption on your part, and creating a ToS rule based on the potential of wrongdoing rather than the wrongdoing itself is a really bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

creating a ToS rule based on the potential of wrongdoing rather than the wrongdoing itself is a really bad thing.

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How? If SE changed the rules you wouldn't see any complaints. Look at this thread. The few people saying the rules should remain as is claim they themselves don't do it so any change wouldn't even affect them. The OP has 49 likes at this time and I'm sure I could pull up a bunch of OF and reddit threads expressing the same sentiment over the past few years that would dwarf any number of these imaginary legit sellers.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

How? If SE changed the rules you wouldn't see any complaints.

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You actually got a laugh out of me. Nobody would complain? Sure, ok https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...m_source=share

This was for minor ToS changes (that muddied the waters and confused players as to what is right and wrong), and you think that your agenda won't cause complaints? FYI that thread has far more traffic than the 49 likes of this thread, which does not have downvotes to verify the validity.

I actually don't know what you want put in the ToS come to think of it. I know who you want to target, but what exactly would you prohibit? Be specific in your wording, and forget about your prejudice and assumptions, because you are willfully ignoring the base fact that burden of proof is on you, and the ToS would need to be written as such.

Minor edit: Going through the post, I realise that I seem to have a higher ratio of likes than people refuting and countering me. How does that factor into your idea that likes on this forum matter in the slightest?

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

You actually got a laugh out of me. Nobody would complain? Sure, ok https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...m_source=share

This was for minor ToS changes (that muddied the waters and confused players as to what is right and wrong), and you think that your agenda won't cause complaints? FYI that thread has far more traffic than the 49 likes of this thread, which does not have downvotes to verify the validity.

I actually don't know what you want put in the ToS come to think of it. I know who you want to target, but what exactly would you prohibit? Be specific in your wording, and forget about your prejudice and assumptions, because you are willfully ignoring the base fact that burden of proof is on you, and the ToS would need to be written as such.

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Nah, ban em. Ban em all I say. If you can't do it yourself, just stop playing.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

How? If SE changed the rules you wouldn't see any complaints. Look at this thread. The few people saying the rules should remain as is claim they themselves don't do it so any change wouldn't even affect them. The OP has 49 likes at this time and I'm sure I could pull up a bunch of OF and reddit threads expressing the same sentiment over the past few years that would dwarf any number of these imaginary legit sellers.

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Are you new around here? People complain a lot about that SEs rules are too strict. People cry about not being allowed to drop F-bombs and deliver slurs like santa delivers gifts at Christmas. I can only Imagine How they would react to not being allowed to link their FC discords so they effectively would be infunctional.

They should just make a blanket statement barring the selling of anything in party finder.

If people want to sell content they can keep on Reddit, in shout chat, etc.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

They should just make a blanket statement barring the selling of anything in party finder.

If people want to sell content they can keep on Reddit, in shout chat, etc.

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I don’t know about you, But I 100% rather see this in PF than in shout chat. It is less of an annoyence in PF where you can easily filter for what you want rather than Shout where everyone has to read everything unless you directly shut it down, and there needs to be a way in game to sell services if you want a balanced market. What you suggest is the same as removing MB forcing people to go to lolReddit to sell crafted gear and furniture.

I'd rather they be spamming in public chat channels since you can at least blacklist them to get them out of your hair completely.

Blacklisting them does not remove their ads from the PF listing, it just keeps you from joining their party.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Blacklisting them does not remove their ads from the PF listing, it just keeps you from joining their party.

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Then ask for this change rather than advocating a harmful change in ToS. RMT always finds a way, and we cannot create a system of total censorship in order to counter it, and having the kind of attitude that wants everyone you don't like to be banned is actually far more harmful than the RMT itself.


Also applies to:

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

Nah, ban em. Ban em all I say. If you can't do it yourself, just stop playing.

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That and the ability to blacklist them without having to physically travel to their server and player search them first would be nice. Though it wouldn't surprise me at all if it ended up being impossible due to the game's archaic coding.

I'm just getting really sick of seeing the same guy posting his content-selling ads in PF since early Stormblood.