Why are white mages allergic to regen?

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Originally Posted by Lexun

My main gripe about healers: not healing someone they just raised just for them to go back down from raid damage..... Something I had to learn going from SCH main to DNC, stand still till you get healed(2-3sec).... Idk how many times I see someone come up be low health for a good 5-8sec and then die from raid damage.

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My main gripe about dps: resurrecting during a big AOE and instantly moving before I even have the time to heal. It goes both ways. Both are annoying.

Oh look, someone could be topped off with a cure1/2, but they arent the tank, and "shouldnt" be taking more dmg.
I give them a regen.
Other healer spams them to full...
Ok, maybe next time...
*repeats in every group*
why even bother?

oh look, the group is low in HP ill use medica2.
both me and other healer get them up to 80-90% hp.

ok, medica2, should get most of the remaining HP.

other healr uses another AoE heal to top them off...
ok.. guess its a waste of MP then...

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Originally Posted by Bacent

Been seeing this non stop in Eden lately, as well as some of my expert roulettes, been getting a whackload of white mages that refuse to use regen, even no medica II when there was a raid wide hit.'

Regen costs 500 MP, half the cost of Cure II, and heals more than Cure II as well (1200 from total regen and 700 from Cure II).

Medica II costs 300 more MP than medica, but with the regen the total potency is 700 compared to 300.

Just... why? It heals so much more for barely a higher MP cost. Even Astros are using their regens more than whms I'm seeing.

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Not sure if stated before, but our Regen ticks have been lowered from lasting 30sec to 15sec. So I get a Medica II up and Regen the Tank, but after that, I'm focused on other things in healing. If I remember to throw it up again I will.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

lol

Yeah, I had a WHM do this in a dungeon last week. I was trying to pull multiple groups like most healers seem to prefer, WHMs especially, but they had to make my job harder apparently. It made it somewhat difficult to maintain order since I had to keep pulling an enemy or 2 off of either the healer or a random dps. Though I guess that's better than not being healed at all like another WHM I encountered, also last week. They barely healed and barely did any dps. They were very skilled at taking AoEs to the face, however.

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Hm, I'm trying to think if anyother games had this, but IIRC, Regens in EQ2 and EQ didn't set aggro on the one who casted it. It was something you set before a pull on the Tank/Puller, and they then went in. Could be some people came from those games and don't fully understand the aggro difference here.

I came from EQ2 and had to learn. It takes a few moments to explain not to do Regen before a pull instead of getting angry. /shrugs Also, as a Healer, if I do get aggro, I run it to the Tank. I have stuff I can use to keep myself from dying for those few moments. It helps the tank grab them easier instead of running back to you.

Me and Regen tends to be the fact I lean very heavily on Solace for healing and weaving. While I don't completely neglect regen, more often then not what I can handle with regen I seem to also be able to handle with Solace.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

Hm, I'm trying to think if anyother games had this, but IIRC, Regens in EQ2 and EQ didn't set aggro on the one who casted it. It was something you set before a pull on the Tank/Puller, and they then went in. Could be some people came from those games and don't fully understand the aggro difference here.

I came from EQ2 and had to learn. It takes a few moments to explain not to do Regen before a pull instead of getting angry. /shrugs Also, as a Healer, if I do get aggro, I run it to the Tank. I have stuff I can use to keep myself from dying for those few moments. It helps the tank grab them easier instead of running back to you.

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Oh, I didn't get angry. I didn't say a word because I know better. It's definitely one of those things people have to learn.It was just a mild annoyance and nothing more. And certainly nothing that necessarily warranted the tank (me) stopping in my tracks and slowing down the run just to explain something that I would consider minor in the grand scheme of things. If tanking has taught me anything, it is to be patient. Even when I would be in the right to vent my frustrations to the group. I also don't think it's a good idea to make the one person in your group angry that is quite literally holding your life in their hands. That can make an already mildly stressful situation into something so much worse.

I haven’t ran whm since 50 was cap but I do know getting used to the timing in different dungeons can be tricky, else you get mad agro

For aoe damage in Eden medica 2 tends to go into overheal for me when a simple Aflatus Rapture or Assize was enough coupled with my cohealer. If I’m gonna aoe heal may as well get my blood lily while I’m at it.

I've find myself not caring for Regen as much as I once did. It's just not optimal in most situations anymore that I just can't be bothered to use it unless I find myself with nothing else that would be more effective to cast in its place.

My oGCDs will heal you effectively on their own.
My Afflatus Spells heal for a good chunk on their own and build up Misery for more damage
Dia is just a stupidly potent DoT that its smarter in most situations to use that instead of Regen.

If all my oGCDs are used, I have no lilies and Dia is already on my target while I need to move, THEN I'll put a regen on the tank but Regen has become a bit niche. Yes, after the Tank has pulled a group of mobs, I'll regen + Benison before Holy Spamming my heart out but I won't bother to reapply it in most cases since I'll have an oGCD/Afflatus spell waiting and the mobs won't be alive for much longer to warrant recasting Regen anyways. EX Primals/Raids haven't really warranted keeping Regen up 24/7 either as, again, Afflatus Spells take precedence over it due to Misery being a huge part of optimal WHM play now since a nuke of that caliber is just too good to pass up for a simple regen. Even without Regen going non-stop, I still end up overhealing so its just simply not needed as much as it once was.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

Can we trade places?
Healers keep regening me as I'm pulling, and stealing my aggro.

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Maybe healer should bring it to the tank instead of running around like an idiot

Honestly, I need a reason to cast Solace and Rapture for that Blood Lily.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Maybe healer should bring it to the tank instead of running around like an idiot

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I don't think healers should do that, I personally just think they should stop sticking regen to tanks when they are at full HP. Or regening, and then healing.

Regen is a good tool, but if you aren't using it right then it's not going to be useful in the slightest.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

Been seeing this non stop in Eden lately, as well as some of my expert roulettes, been getting a whackload of white mages that refuse to use regen, even no medica II when there was a raid wide hit.'

Regen costs 500 MP, half the cost of Cure II, and heals more than Cure II as well (1200 from total regen and 700 from Cure II).

Medica II costs 300 more MP than medica, but with the regen the total potency is 700 compared to 300.

Just... why? It heals so much more for barely a higher MP cost. Even Astros are using their regens more than whms I'm seeing.

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Probably because Afflatus Solace costs 0MP, 100% less than Regen, and heals for 700 potency as well, and nourishes the blood lily.

Or because Afflatus Rapture costs 0MP, 100% less than MedicaII, and heals for 300 potency as well, and nourishes the blood lily.

Or because Tetra costs 0MP, 100% less than Regen, and heals for 700 potency as well.

Or because Assize costs -500MP (read: it restores 500MP), infinitely less than MedicaII, and heals for 400 potency.

Or because Plenary costs 0MP, 100% less than MedicaII, and adds 200 potency to another heal.

Or because Asylum drops a basically free regen on the ground, costing 0MP (100% less than MedicaII), and nobody ever stands in it ever, and then you Rescue them into it and the run back out b/c they like dying, so you decide your mana is better spent on Glare, b/c you're not some AST or SCH peasant and you're far more interested in nourishing the blood lily than keeping an ungrateful player alive. :P

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Maybe healer should bring it to the tank instead of running around like an idiot

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I agree, though that doesn't help the very moment they take aggro as the tank is trying to pull multiple groups. They typically aren't that far away so it takes only a second once the tank stops to take it back, but Regen should be used at the right place and time...and that isn't right before a tank pulls or even mid pull for that matter imo.

For large trash pulls

As a PLD (main), I don't mind if healers regen me as I am pulling, makes it easier for them to keep me healed up and I have no issue getting aggro on all the enemies especially since enmity generation has been increased and we have a better AoE rotation. if healer gets smaked once or twice, I don't find it a big deal. One or two hits won't kill the healer.

As a WHM (2nd job), I prefer putting regen on the tank on as enemies are being pulled or before they are pulled. When the tank is taking so much damage, sometimes I find it difficult to spare a GCD for a regen when the tank is taking so much damage they tank would die if it's not a Cure 2 being spammed, Cure 2 barely covering the amount of damage being take and sometimes not even covering that amount of damage. Regen is powerful but it's regen so it's over time and not upfront healing.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

Probably because Afflatus Solace costs 0MP, 100% less than Regen, and heals for 700 potency as well, and nourishes the blood lily.

Or because Afflatus Rapture costs 0MP, 100% less than MedicaII, and heals for 300 potency as well, and nourishes the blood lily.

Or because Tetra costs 0MP, 100% less than Regen, and heals for 700 potency as well.

Or because Assize costs -500MP (read: it restores 500MP), infinitely less than MedicaII, and heals for 400 potency.

Or because Plenary costs 0MP, 100% less than MedicaII, and adds 200 potency to another heal.

Or because Asylum drops a basically free regen on the ground, costing 0MP (100% less than MedicaII), and nobody ever stands in it ever, and then you Rescue them into it and the run back out b/c they like dying, so you decide your mana is better spent on Glare, b/c you're not some AST or SCH peasant and you're far more interested in nourishing the blood lily than keeping an ungrateful player alive. :P

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-Nose pats and belly rubs for Savage Facts Kitty-

It's impressive when WHM's don't even need all their heals and have little reason for Regen or our buffed Medica II. According to the forums this was meant to be our "pure healer won't-have-time-for-deeps aaaall the incoming damage" expansion :P

Because "Regen" rimes with "Pollen". 'Nuff said.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Maybe healer should bring it to the tank instead of running around like an idiot

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This brings back so many memories of Whms in FFXI popping benediction. They then either would run around like a chicken with its head cut off, or stay put. The ones that managed to survive being the mobs new center of attention were the ones that stayed put.


But on the regen front... only time I see as being valid to avoid using it is pulls and full hp party. Let it do the heavy lifting otherwise.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

Probably because Afflatus Solace costs 0MP, 100% less than Regen, and heals for 700 potency as well, and nourishes the blood lily.

Or because Afflatus Rapture costs 0MP, 100% less than MedicaII, and heals for 300 potency as well, and nourishes the blood lily.

Or because Tetra costs 0MP, 100% less than Regen, and heals for 700 potency as well.

Or because Assize costs -500MP (read: it restores 500MP), infinitely less than MedicaII, and heals for 400 potency.

Or because Plenary costs 0MP, 100% less than MedicaII, and adds 200 potency to another heal.

Or because Asylum drops a basically free regen on the ground, costing 0MP (100% less than MedicaII), and nobody ever stands in it ever, and then you Rescue them into it and the run back out b/c they like dying, so you decide your mana is better spent on Glare, b/c you're not some AST or SCH peasant and you're far more interested in nourishing the blood lily than keeping an ungrateful player alive. :P

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The real mvp post of this thread

I blame FFlogs for contributing to this mentality. People see that WHM can do sustained 6k+ dps and expect every WHM to pull those numbers. Yet if you really look at how those number were obtained that logic really breaks down. Because it amounts to only using oGCD healing abilities, using assize every 45s, Misery every 150s, Dia every 30s, using swiftcast for quick glares, with your cohealer doing the majority of the healing. At that point those WHMs stop being healers are DPS with some heals. And keeping PoM on cooldown

Now granted If your cohealer can solo heal most of the time, having a WHM essentially be a dps with back up heals can work very well.

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Originally Posted by DarkEiraStar

I blame FFlogs for contributing to this mentality. People see that WHM can do sustained 6k+ dps and expect every WHM to pull those numbers. Yet if you really look at how those number were obtained that logic really breaks down. Because it amounts to only using oGCD healing abilities, using assize every 45s, Misery every 150s, Dia every 30s, using swiftcast for quick glares, with your cohealer doing the majority of the healing. At that point those WHMs stop being healers are DPS with some heals. And keeping PoM on cooldown

Now granted If your cohealer can solo heal most of the time, having a WHM essentially be a dps with back up heals can work very well.

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I will DPS when I can, but healing is ore important to how I play. I don't do Extremes or Savage stuff. I do get the best gear and materia I can though.

If someone complaines I don't do enough DPS, I will say nothing. Of course those same people also complain if I don't heal them. Can't have it both ways!

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

Probably because Afflatus Solace costs 0MP, 100% less than Regen, and heals for 700 potency as well, and nourishes the blood lily.

Or because Afflatus Rapture costs 0MP, 100% less than MedicaII, and heals for 300 potency as well, and nourishes the blood lily.

Or because Tetra costs 0MP, 100% less than Regen, and heals for 700 potency as well.

Or because Assize costs -500MP (read: it restores 500MP), infinitely less than MedicaII, and heals for 400 potency.

Or because Plenary costs 0MP, 100% less than MedicaII, and adds 200 potency to another heal.

Or because Asylum drops a basically free regen on the ground, costing 0MP (100% less than MedicaII), and nobody ever stands in it ever, and then you Rescue them into it and the run back out b/c they like dying, so you decide your mana is better spent on Glare, b/c you're not some AST or SCH peasant and you're far more interested in nourishing the blood lily than keeping an ungrateful player alive. :P

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This literally made me laugh out loud at work. Thank you for that.

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Originally Posted by DarkEiraStar

I blame FFlogs for contributing to this mentality. People see that WHM can do sustained 6k+ dps and expect every WHM to pull those numbers. Yet if you really look at how those number were obtained that logic really breaks down. Because it amounts to only using oGCD healing abilities, using assize every 45s, Misery every 150s, Dia every 30s, using swiftcast for quick glares, with your cohealer doing the majority of the healing. At that point those WHMs stop being healers are DPS with some heals. And keeping PoM on cooldown

Now granted If your cohealer can solo heal most of the time, having a WHM essentially be a dps with back up heals can work very well.

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Truth be told: If you have a team that doesn't stand in stupid, your cooldowns are enough healing.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's impressive when WHM's don't even need all their heals and have little reason for Regen or our buffed Medica II. According to the forums this was meant to be our "pure healer won't-have-time-for-deeps aaaall the incoming damage" expansion :P

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I am just going to wait too see what they do in 5.05 with the classes. SE may or may not nerf whm, but Ast though clearly needs a adjustments and buffs. Scholar needs some adjustments itself but it looks likes in a good spot outside of that.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

That's not the healer's fault for using Regen, though. It's the healer's fault for not tailing the tank.

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This, I generally don't put regen on during wall to wall pulling as it isn't needed. However there have been times where I put a medica II up too late in the fight and if I'm grouped up with my friends who tank I'll just run with the tank. In fact when doing this I'll be MOAR REGENS and put regen on everyone keep running with the tank and then settle into Holy Spam oGCD heals.

I wouldn't do this with random tanks in DF though :).

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

Truth be told: If you have a team that doesn't stand in stupid, your cooldowns are enough healing.

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Current whm is just going to strengthen the Dps dont heal idea. Every whm is going to find themselves dpsing more and healing less often. Wont be shocked at all if I see threads from whm's saying they got kicked out of savage for trying to help their follower healer heal instead of dpsing.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

Can we trade places?
Healers keep regening me as I'm pulling, and stealing my aggro.

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This is the worst.
The other day I kept clicking off my regen as I am pulling, just to have the healer re-apply it.
I'm swell with it in combat, but not during the pull.

Alot of this is due to parser. And yes I will say this those BS 7-8k healer parses are not how you will normally see a healers dps in an actual fight when they have to heal. That would be mathematically impossible. That is them getting buffs from everyone in a feed party with the co-healer literally solo healing the fight while they 100% dps. That is the main problem with FFLogs, the top 200 globally on each job are from feed partys which is not your normal runs.

But more then logs I put the blame on the content design. When SE add savage and ultimate tier raiding that does not have dps checks then healer dps will not matter and people can play as pure healers if they choose.

If every single major endgame fight requires dps checks... then DPS > All. Simple as that.

And I do not believe they balanced the whole Savage eden raid, all fights, around Ilvl448ish without 0 dmg from healers. My guess is they expect you to have to farm for several weeks to a months to get the itemlvl to have no healers dps.

I would love for healers to be able to focus and build around optimizing healing and tanks to dmg mitigation. It is how it should be played in my opinion. But that is not how the game is designed. You do that your chances to fail the content rises drastically.

Just reading through this thread, with all the (bad) advises and complains, it seems no one asked the most important: is anyone dying?

- If you are a tank: unless you are dying you shouldn't complain. As long as you get heals and not tanking the floor (unless you mess up mechanic yourself) then the healers are doing their job. Do you feel the need to dictate how they heal you, or you're an insecure tank who feel vulnerable unless there is a regen on you?
- If you are a co-healer: again, is anyone dying? It has been mentioned several time before, but the reason WHM doesn't like Medica 2 or Regen because the HOT will most likely become overheal anyway, since our overzealous co-healers (you can tell by the comments from non-WHM healer so far in this thread) will just top everyone off anyway. But I guess by seeing HOT it's more "psychologically" pleasant because it makes look like the WHM doing something else besiding casting flair.


A trademark of a good WHM, or ANY good healers really, is not about how much you heal, but knowing when and what to heal. Most high level healer will not simply heal because someone take damage, which is the common mentality in pug. For example:

-I once had a co-healer questioned why I didn't heal the party after the first AOE went out during the add phase of Innocent.
-I said I did Assize.
-The co-healer insisted it's not enough, because the party wasn't topped off and he "had to do all the work". (like many complains in this thread).
-To which I asked: why did you even top the party off to begin with?

Two and a half reason why no healer should heal during that phase:

-First: that first AOE is also the ONLY raid damage during that phase, there is no other damage (zip, nada, zero) going into the raid till the phase end. Even if someone has 1HP after that AOE, they still wont die during that phase.
-First and a half:If the tanks were top off and use their CD appropriately for the holy sword busters, then they too shouldn't need any heal before the adds die, unless your party DPS is so low that the adds stay up for long.
-Second: after the adds are down, there are a 10+ second transition into the next phase where you can't target anything, and thus have all the time in the world to heal the party up ... many times over.

That's why there is NO reason whatsoever to waste GCDs on heal when the adds are up, GCDs that are better used to bring the adds down even faster, then heal afterward. It's the samething in between the Titantina small and big add phase, casual players (read: bad healers) seems to insist that several AOE heal must be thrown out during the small adds phase each time a spread marker set is resolved (aka you're a bad WHM if I don't Medica II running during this). While the fact is that there is simply not enough damage going out during that phase to kill anyone unless you miss an avoidable mechanic. And you have a tons of time between the small -> big transition to heal up any damage done. So between the lack of damaging going out to the raid, and the gigantic asernal of instant heal in their toolkit, there is absolutely no reason for a regen type heal from a WHM in the current content.


I had heal in other MMO, and it seems the prevalent mentality is that "you must heal as soon as the damage goes out" and "the party must be kept at 100% all the times", that's why healing in WoW feels like a whackamole game. So again, if someone died due to not having enough HP to an unavoidable mechanic, that's on the healers. But if no one dies, yet you don't see the party are topped off all the time, then there is a fairly good chance you are running with an above average healer who know what he/she is doing.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Just reading through this thread, with all the (bad) advises and complains, it seems no one asked the most important: is anyone dying?

- If you are a tank: unless you are dying you shouldn't complain. As long as you get heals and not tanking the floor (unless you mess up mechanic yourself) then the healers are doing their job. Do you feel the need to dictate how they heal you, or you're an insecure tank who feel vulnerable unless there is a regen on you?

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I never complain about a healer doing their job correctly, but there are some small annoyances regarding the actions of some healers which I've encountered that I have learned to live with. Like you said, if I'm not dying or if no one is dying at all then I can't, and shouldn't, complain. That would be like telling someone "STOP HEALING SO GOOD JEEZ!" I could never do that in good conscience. I just value efficiency above most things, which was why I felt the need to post about regen being used correctly/incorrectly depending on the circumstances. If a healer decides to make my job slightly harder while I'm pulling things then I just suck it up and continue doing what I need to do, and pick up any stray trash when I stop or immediately if they're close.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I never complain about a healer doing their job correctly, but there are some small annoyances regarding the actions of some healers which I've encountered that I have learned to live with. Like you said, if I'm not dying or if no one is dying at all then I can't, and shouldn't, complain. That would be like telling someone "STOP HEALING SO GOOD JEEZ!" I could never do that in good conscience. I just value efficiency above most things, which was why I felt the need to post about regen being used correctly/incorrectly depending on the circumstances. If a healer decides to make my job slightly harder while I'm pulling things then I just suck it up and continue doing what I need to do, and pick up any stray trash when I stop or immediately if they're close.

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A separate post since this is to the other main complain I see in this thread: about regen pre-pull is bad. I'll tell you this: if I am tanking and you are healing, you are welcome to put Regen + Medica II on my pre-pull, and still no mobs gonna take so much a lick on you. This is actually the issue on the tanks not doing the pull correctly. Most tanks open their pull with a range attack (i.e Tomahawk/Shield Blob/Unmend) before following up with an AOE in the 2nd attack, it's this one GCD between your first and second move that make the mobs peeline to the healer. If you are a tank with this problem, do this: run straight to the pack and do your AOE like Flash as your first attack, then you will NEVER have this problem again. The range attack on the tanks are never meant to be your opener, it's only for picking up stray mobs.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

A separate post since this is to the other main complain I see in this thread: about regen pre-pull is bad. I'll tell you this: if I am tanking and you are healing, you are welcome to put Regen + Medica II on my pre-pull, and still no mobs gonna take so much a lick on you. This is actually the issue on the tanks not doing the pull correctly. Most tanks open their pull with a range attack (i.e Tomahawk/Shield Blob/Unmend) before following up with an AOE in the 2nd attack, it's this one GCD between your first and second move that make the mobs peeline to the healer. If you are a tank with this problem, do this: run straight to the pack and do your AOE like Flash as your first attack, then you will NEVER have this problem again. The range attack on the tanks are never meant to be your opener, it's only for picking up stray mobs.

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Well, I'd be foolish to ignore constructive criticism. I've always been under the impression that pulling with a ranged attack was the standard, because that's what I've seen other tanks doing all the time. Perhaps I will give this a go, thanks. It certainly makes sense.

Idk about whm not using regen, for me they don't use raise or cures at all.

There can be 3 dps dead in Eden, tanks can be at 50%, the sch/ast can be sitting at 100/10000 mp and the whm is all Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare, then the pt wipes and we start the process all over again.

There are two kinds of groups in this game. Pugs/DF and Static's, you try too heal a pug/DF group like its a static. You are going to find a lot of dead players and be rezzing more then you ever would in a static.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Idk about whm not using regen, for me they don't use raise or cures at all.

There can be 3 dps dead in Eden, tanks can be at 50%, the sch/ast can be sitting at 100/10000 mp and the whm is all Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare, then the pt wipes and we start the process all over again.

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I have notice that as well so many Whm getting lazy and just dpsing. I have had at least 2 whm co-healers in the last week and half who would not help until the party was one aoe away from being killed. Whats really sad is the ones who make no attempt to heal themselves even if they are low on HP..nope you just see there cast bar throwing out dmg abilities. SE should just make Whm a dps and come up with a new healer cause seems everyone playing a whm is treating like a dps with healing ability. I looked whm and honestly you could remove cure 1 ,2, regen, and medica. whm would still be the best healer in the game like they are now.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

A separate post since this is to the other main complain I see in this thread: about regen pre-pull is bad. I'll tell you this: if I am tanking and you are healing, you are welcome to put Regen + Medica II on my pre-pull, and still no mobs gonna take so much a lick on you. This is actually the issue on the tanks not doing the pull correctly. Most tanks open their pull with a range attack (i.e Tomahawk/Shield Blob/Unmend) before following up with an AOE in the 2nd attack, it's this one GCD between your first and second move that make the mobs peeline to the healer. If you are a tank with this problem, do this: run straight to the pack and do your AOE like Flash as your first attack, then you will NEVER have this problem again. The range attack on the tanks are never meant to be your opener, it's only for picking up stray mobs.

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Why would you invite bad plays?

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Idk about whm not using regen, for me they don't use raise or cures at all.

There can be 3 dps dead in Eden, tanks can be at 50%, the sch/ast can be sitting at 100/10000 mp and the whm is all Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare, then the pt wipes and we start the process all over again.

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This can be a case of confirmation bias. There are many reason why you see healers still DPS even if there are people dying. Take E4 for example:

- If Swift Cast is 10- seconds out, we most likely gonna wait for it to res.
- Most people die getting knocked of the platform, which usually follow by a long chain of AOE jumping from the boss. We have enough time to cast flare before each move, but we don't have enough time to raise.
- (Lack of) coordination between healers in pug. If we both have to hard cast a raise, chance is one of us gonna cancel it to avoid raising the same people, this could lead to a case where we keep canceling out our raise.

Also just to NOT avoid the big elephant in the room here but ... if the party got to a point where there are so many deaths that the healers can't res them all, then should you really be looking at faulting the healers?

Also I want to advocate something here: even a pro healer will still gonna stret out if there are so many deaths happening. Between hard casting raising, while paying attention to other members still alive (so you don't raise one and lose another), while still have to handle mechanic on their own, a healer can become overwhelmed to a point they may just shut down and DPS on reflex instead (I know that had happenend to me). Yesterday after reset I did something like 14+ run on my 2 characters (one WHM one SCH) and I can tell you on average I had to raise 6+ time per run (some of the E4 runs I had to do 10+ raise), several time I reached the point of "I just don't want to raise any more". So yeah, if the party makes so many mistake that you push the healers to that point ... I don't think you should look at them to find the problem.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

Why would you invite bad plays?

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Because to me it's not bad play? In fact, unless the WHM know the other trick to make the pull easier, I would welcome a regen on me prepull. It's only bad play if only one or neither know what they are doing, if both parties know what they're doing then it's fantastic.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

A separate post since this is to the other main complain I see in this thread: about regen pre-pull is bad. I'll tell you this: if I am tanking and you are healing, you are welcome to put Regen + Medica II on my pre-pull, and still no mobs gonna take so much a lick on you. This is actually the issue on the tanks not doing the pull correctly. Most tanks open their pull with a range attack (i.e Tomahawk/Shield Blob/Unmend) before following up with an AOE in the 2nd attack, it's this one GCD between your first and second move that make the mobs peeline to the healer. If you are a tank with this problem, do this: run straight to the pack and do your AOE like Flash as your first attack, then you will NEVER have this problem again. The range attack on the tanks are never meant to be your opener, it's only for picking up stray mobs.

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I wouldn't say never. I usually do this on every pull anyway but sometimes mobs are spread out enough that you can't get them all in 1 aoe. There's also times when DPS jumps the gun and makes mobs run off sooner than you anticipated, potentially causing you to miss the aoe. That one isn't necessarily a regen issue, but regen can compound the issue.

In those cases instead of running to you allowing you to nab em in your followup aoe, they run to the healer / dps. They SHOULD be running it to you but in my experience when anyone, dps included, draws enmity away from you, they often either try running from the mob, or they ignore it and let it sit there hitting them out of your aoes reach, leaving it up to you to either move to them or use a gcd on a ranged attack anyway.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

Probably because Afflatus Solace costs 0MP, 100% less than Regen, and heals for 700 potency as well, and nourishes the blood lily.

Or because Afflatus Rapture costs 0MP, 100% less than MedicaII, and heals for 300 potency as well, and nourishes the blood lily.

Or because Tetra costs 0MP, 100% less than Regen, and heals for 700 potency as well.

Or because Assize costs -500MP (read: it restores 500MP), infinitely less than MedicaII, and heals for 400 potency.

Or because Plenary costs 0MP, 100% less than MedicaII, and adds 200 potency to another heal.

Or because Asylum drops a basically free regen on the ground, costing 0MP (100% less than MedicaII), and nobody ever stands in it ever, and then you Rescue them into it and the run back out b/c they like dying, so you decide your mana is better spent on Glare, b/c you're not some AST or SCH peasant and you're far more interested in nourishing the blood lily than keeping an ungrateful player alive. :P

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FOR THE BLOOD LILY!