Eureka: What we know and what we want to know

Man, the penalties won't be nearly as harsh as it was back in XI days. Raise within 10 mins with no penalty? Try Raise I giving you back 10% of that 8% you lost. Raise II giving you back 50% and Raise III giving back 80% back. All with a weakened state.

Those days when people pop the WHM NM and zoned him to the entrance to the Dunes... For him to come and slaughter all the low level people. Fun times.

On a serious note, This promotes people to play smart. If people want to Troll, boot 'em. Troll pulls a train, don't engage. There's many ways to deal with Trolls. This is only 20 levels we're talking here.

Yea old ways of doing it like if you die and lose progression is dumb especially with today's technology, there is no reason to lose any kind of progression in any game. Back then there were memory limitations so we had to deal with it. Today there is no reason to lose any progression so why would anyone in there right minds think its a good idea today?

If you have 6 to 12 hours a day to play then sure you can shrug it off but those who are limited to 1 to 3 hours of game time per day will be very unhappy with losing progression.

Devs please rethink this and remove it. I can see a lot issues with it and there will be a lot of trolling. I know if I die due to lag spikes and not get a raise I will be be very unhappy especially if this content is grindy.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

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So it seems you missed some info from the Live Letter. After level 5 you will lose exp if no one raises you within a 10 min period if this happens you suffer a 10% loss of exp if you lose beyond 0 exp for that level yes you level down as showcased in the video.

The instance is times at 180 min and will end when you run out of time or leave the instance.

Griefing shouldnt be a problem as the game works on the same aggro system we have now. If a mob kills you and is walking back to its spawn point it will not be hostile and wont be able to be attacked. However if it is aggroed to you and someone pulls hate off you they will be attacked aoes work as normal.

Lastly no we will not have individual Limit Breaks like we do in pvp.

Watching the live stream the other day all of this info was shared on screen as Yoshi P. ran around and got killed.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

The whole thing is to cater to players that want more unforgiving content and/or more FFXI like content.

It just rails against the trend FFXIV has been doing to make the game more broadly appealing and accessible. Both things I wholeheartedly support.

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So, we want to make FFXIV appealing to a broad array of people.
But people who like this type of content we don't want to appeal to?

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Originally Posted by ShinMetsu

So, we want to make FFXIV appealing to a broad array of people.
But people who like this type of content we don't want to appeal to?

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Because it appeals to a very small subset of players (I would think even smaller than savage/ultimate raiders) and came at the high cost of removing a working method of weapon grinding that was accessible to EVERYONE at any level that had the joimt purpose of getting players to rerun old content and learn other, already implemented systems.

Relic/Anima design > What we know of Eureka's design.

I might play it and like the elemental wheel, and the weapons and gear may be amazing and worth the work.

But, I got like 2 hours a day I can actually sit and play, and I don't want to live in one zone.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

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Quite a few players have played FFXI this is also a system that no one is really fimilar with this is accessible to everyone the zone has a time limit of 180 min and more then likely it wont be much of a grind it really depends whats needed to upgrade arms and armor. It seems more designed for the people that cant get on and grind for hours on end and rather they can get on go in get some stuff done and leave. A party is not required to enter as you can enter solo and form/disband groups inside the instance. The old method wasnt really accessible to everyone as it made use of getting x item from x raid or x dungeon or made players do content they didnt want to do or had no time for or a static. With Eureka i dont see it not appealing to a wide audience since almost everyone Ive talked to seemed hype about it and judging from the twitch chat people were excited. But as with all content no one is forcing you to do it.

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Originally Posted by KokoChibata

no one is forcing you to do it.

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Well actually they are, they've tied dyeable AF3 to it, so all those players wanted AF3 are forced to run Eureka to obtain it & those of us who actually finished Relics/Animas are forced to do it to get the next Relic weapons.

I'll give content it's due & run it plenty in first two weeks but depending on how bad the S monsters are to get to, kill & if the item you need is RNG or Guaranteed will be the ultimate factor in deciding if I bother with it after two weeks.
How tough S will be because if a single 8-man or six 8-mans in instance can do it it's going be early killed/pulled all the time, people barely can wait 2 - 5mins for people get to S-Rank in SB imagine when got wait 10+ minutes for people fight through mobs to get to other side.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Umbra

Those of us who actually finished Relics/Animas are forced to do it to get the next Relic weapons.

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Nope, I gave Anima the finger when it first launch and never looked back. Tome weapon will do just as fine.

Reminds me a lot of old school Everquest with the death penalties plus mobs don’t stop chasing you those of you that played EQ will remember yelling “train to zone in” lol. This is gonna be fun!!

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Originally Posted by Astral145

Yea old ways of doing it like if you die and lose progression is dumb especially with today's technology, there is no reason to lose any kind of progression in any game. Back then there were memory limitations so we had to deal with it. Today there is no reason to lose any progression so why would anyone in there right minds think its a good idea today?

If you have 6 to 12 hours a day to play then sure you can shrug it off but those who are limited to 1 to 3 hours of game time per day will be very unhappy with losing progression.

Devs please rethink this and remove it. I can see a lot issues with it and there will be a lot of trolling. I know if I die due to lag spikes and not get a raise I will be be very unhappy especially if this content is grindy.

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Probably shouldn't jump to conclusion to fast, we lack a great deal of information on eureka still, like how fast and how much xp can we gain in an hour? Whats the amount of xp you need to level up? Even if we lost 10% you might be able to gain it back in 10mins.

They did say though it was gonna be long term content, so there will be sort of grind probably with the relic armor/weapons. This may not be for everyone, if you just want instant gratification.

I'm not going to overanalyze it or worry about it before the patch. My main concern though is that if SE screws this up, that's pretty much a big unsub sign for me.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

Yea old ways of doing it like if you die and lose progression is dumb especially with today's technology, there is no reason to lose any kind of progression in any game. Back then there were memory limitations so we had to deal with it. Today there is no reason to lose any progression so why would anyone in there right minds think its a good idea today?

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Losing exp wasn't a system designed due to memory limitations lol

It was a conscious design made to add tangible downsides to death and was often circumvented with smarter play or reacting better to a bad situation. And in situations where death was unavoidable, well we sucked it up and got the exp back. Whether or not it's your cup of tea is all up to personal preference

I like the death penalty system similar to xi, it forced people to play smart and put in effort rather than get their hands held through everything, it's a system that separates the trash from the skilled and I think it's always been a fantastic system.

You want to be careless / troll your party ? well there goes the past few hours work, it makes people actually try and I think FFxi's death penalty system is greatly needed for this community, can't be a care bear forever, limited play time or not.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

It was always going to be if the gear was going to be job locked, if not they'll have to make another artifact gear set which is probably more effort than it's worth

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Well its the relic set I honestly believed that something like that which will be grinded for quite some time will at least get something unique..but sadly it seems that reuses are what they like to do right now. :/ A very cool looking set would have motivated me to do this even if the content itself might not be the best but if its not good and the sets are just copies of older ones..well not sure if I will do the grind.

Also what will happen if the first rush of the relic quest is over and people later will want to do it? Will the NM change with the amount of people there or will this mean that this might become death content somewhere in the future?

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Originally Posted by Maero

I want to know if it is happening before 5.0...

Sorry had to, haha

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It's actually planned for 6.2.5

Hunts are kinda boring and you'd have to actually try to die in ff14's open world content. If eureka is just farm a bunch of mobs and do hunts it's gonna be super dead.

I also hope there's need for group coordination and job mastery. No need for a penalty for dying if no one actually dies.

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Originally Posted by Waemliht

Hunts are kinda boring and you'd have to actually try to die in ff14's open world content. If eureka is just farm a bunch of mobs and do hunts it's gonna be super dead.

I also hope there's need for group coordination and job mastery. No need for a penalty for dying if no one actually dies.

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It's just going to be fates and hunts but under a different name in Eureka.

After reading some comments about hunts and fates, I really wonder what alternative there is to gain something that drops from a monster. Unless you want to solve some puzzles in a shrine or something like that, hunting monsters is all there is.

Or gathering.

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Originally Posted by Zhamkyong

After reading some comments about hunts and fates, I really wonder what alternative there is to gain something that drops from a monster. Unless you want to solve some puzzles in a shrine or something like that, hunting monsters is all there is.

Or gathering.

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Yup,

Many people are going to be disappointed.

Right now I still can’t shake the idea of the nickname Diareka. If the new relic weapons amount to having to farm Diadem with a PotD style progression system, I’ll just stick to crafted and/or ex primal weapons.

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Originally Posted by Kazgrel

Right now I still can’t shake the idea of the nickname Diareka. If the new relic weapons amount to having to farm Diadem with a PotD style progression system, I’ll just stick to crafted and/or ex primal weapons.

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What else is there to do though outside farming ultimate and Sigmascape savage now?

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Originally Posted by KokoChibata

So it seems you missed some info from the Live Letter. After level 5 you will lose exp if no one raises you within a 10 min period if this happens you suffer a 10% loss of exp if you lose beyond 0 exp for that level yes you level down as showcased in the video.

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I did not see the liveletter, omg it sounds absolutely horrid and may overtake how bad atma was at the beginning, plus the fact that Relic is rather late to start with...
Not sure what is being smoked at the office

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Well its the relic set I honestly believed that something like that which will be grinded for quite some time will at least get something unique..but sadly it seems that reuses are what they like to do right now. :/ A very cool looking set would have motivated me to do this even if the content itself might not be the best but if its not good and the sets are just copies of older ones..well not sure if I will do the grind.

Also what will happen if the first rush of the relic quest is over and people later will want to do it? Will the NM change with the amount of people there or will this mean that this might become death content somewhere in the future?

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I agree nice to have a nice new set to get however I think having so many job locked sets would be a waste and AFs have been pretty hit or miss in the past. I guess it doesn't help that I have long since stopped thinking of this as a relic and more along the lines of the atherpool weapons.
I think you make a good point about the accessibility of the content once the rush dies down.

I just hope we can enter it solo. Not like Diadem, where we have to be in a party.

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Originally Posted by Felis

I just hope we can enter it solo. Not like Diadem, where we have to be in a party.

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They confirmed you can...Wether you should or not, regarding the difficulty, is another topic :p

But you can form parties once inside.

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

What else is there to do though outside farming ultimate and Sigmascape savage now?

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We’re venturing into the territory of “well what do you want?”, which has an infinite number of answers.

Me personally, I’m busy crafting gear for friends and decorating a new home. Haven’t even touched savage content, let alone ultimate. As for relic weapons, there’s still plenty of those things to grind out...I say that as an owner of all 13 animas and 3 zetas.

So this will have an independent leveling system like PotD?

Also, does that mean you start with your level one abilities? Or are you just a level one in status only.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

So this will have an independent leveling system like PotD?
Also, does that mean you start with your level one abilities? Or are you just a level one in status only.

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It stills supposition, but I think you'll keep whatever skills you have outside, but, your base attributes will have a very small impact, if any, compared to your elemental level.

It reminds me of Abyssea in FFXI, a place when you could gain key items, called Atmas, that boost your character tremendously, to the point that a "low" geared character with the proper Atmas was much more powerful than an overgeared character with 0 Atma.

The elemental wheel thing just looks tacky. Like oh no you take/deal more damage against opposing elements. It still doesn't change any decisions you make on the fly.

It's just mindless bosses with no mechanics and mindless enemies with no threat and more RNG drops.

Yeah sure there's punishment for dying, which normally Id be against, but it's honestly something the community needs at this point. SOMETHING needs to tell players that a modicum of effort is required to be a successfully contributor to society.

Not super excited for it, but I'll try it.

For everyone complaining that there's no new Artifact Gear, this is how Artifact Gear has been done since 2.0. You get the undyable set from the job quest and then turn in into the dyable set later (ALC items for 2.0, Centruio Seals in 3.0, Eureka in 4.0) and you don't get a new AF set until the next expansion. I'm not worried at all about them reusing the gear because I've been wanting this gear since 4.0 launched (dyable AF3 SMN Set!). They'll probably do the exact same thing in 5.0. Also, we know there will be new armor coming out of this that isn't job locked.

I think the success of this is going to depend on how easy it is to do solo. If it's not that hard (just longer and more of a grind) then it's probably always going to have someone doing it, if just for the relics. If it's really difficult, then it'll die once parties aren't interested.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

For everyone complaining that there's no new Artifact Gear, this is how Artifact Gear has been done since 2.0. You get the undyable set from the job quest and then turn in into the dyable set later (ALC items for 2.0, Centruio Seals in 3.0, Eureka in 4.0) and you don't get a new AF set until the next expansion.

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What you cite for the 3.0 AF gear is true now but was not at release. We used to not receive any gear from the job quest and had to buy the undyeable base gear (i200) with capped tomestones before upgrading them to dyeable gear (i210).

The only thing we can say for the AF from ARR, HW and SB is that there is no rule:
- some can be stored in the armoire (i50/55);
- some are obtained from the job quests (i50/55 and i290 at release, i50/55, i90, i200, i290 now);
- some can be bought back from the calamity salvager (i50/55 and i290);
- some can be upgraded to dyeable ones (i50/55 to i50/55, i200 to i210 and soon i290 to ???).

I suppose the fact SE has been working on this forever makes it especially disheartening it seems so much like Diadem with a few tweaks. This will be the third attempt at pushing this kind of content and I don't believe this version will so different and spectacular that it's not going to be dead within the month. All I can ask now is why? No one wanted this. :(

we don't know till its actually released, judge it then. There's no point in worrying until we have it in game. Forums worried so much about so many things and its just wasted energy.

We knew relics were going to be some kind of grind as the last two were... What exactly were people expecting and what would be preferable to this new system? I personally have no problem with the idea of killing monsters for drops, a system that's in practically every RPG by the way, which is still the core idea in raids and primals.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

we don't know till its actually released, judge it then. There's no point in worrying until we have it in game. Forums worried so much about so many things and its just wasted energy.

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

We knew relics were going to be some kind of grind as the last two were... What exactly were people expecting and what would be preferable to this new system? I personally have no problem with the idea of killing monsters for drops, a system that's in practically every RPG by the way, which is still the core idea in raids and primals.

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^This.

Also i am still reading complaints about Fate and Hunts, but not a solution to the dilemma: What do you guys want instead?
The game is based on combat, with crafting and gathering among other choices. Eureka is going to be based as far as we know in combat with monsters of that place (We can assume also some gathering). What alternative there is to NM and Fates? if you have better ideas then share it for a change.

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Originally Posted by Zhamkyong

^This.

Also i am still reading complaints about Fate and Hunts, but not a solution to the dilemma: What do you guys want instead?
The game is based on combat, with crafting and gathering among other choices. Eureka is going to be based as far as we know in combat with monsters of that place (We can assume also some gathering). What alternative there is to NM and Fates? if you have better ideas then share it for a change.

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There really isnt any. I think the problem that people have (I don't) is that with the last two relics its was easy fates. The ones in ARR, i mean... while it was pleasant to revisit old zones, the feeling for grandeur is lost when you are killing dodo's and mongrels for an epic weapon. I would like to see fates utilized (since thats what we are going to get, most likely) in a more (for lack of a better word) epic way.

When people compare fights to FATEs or hunts it's shorthand for "mindless zergfest with no mechanical significance whatsoever." Added bonus of FATEs and hunts both also working on an enmity system wherein you're rewarded more for having tanks sitting in defensive stance and healers intentionally overhealing.

If you can't think of alternatives to that, you're either not trying hard enough or are just being dismissive. Hell, Dynamis and Abyssea were constantly being brought up as points of reference for the last year and those have infinitely more depth than "play the game wrong"/FATEs/hunts both inside of the fights themselves and in their basic content structure. Diadem 2.0's Emergency Mission was a decent idea in concept, but utterly ruined by the execution of both the content itself and the fight's design (and infrequency). It's just not possible to coordinate 6+ full parties consisting of random people with the tools available to us in-game, and the fact that a single person could torpedo the entire thing was hilariously bad.

Both extremes are bad. And I look forward to people dragging nearby mobs into the NM cluster**** - intentionally or otherwise - and getting multiple people killed. So many attacks and abilities will have to be willfully withheld (WHM's Aero III/Assize, AST's Earthly Star, DRG's Geirskogul/Nastrond/Dragonfire Dive, etc) lest they risk getting themselves and other members of their party (see aforementioned overhealing) killed off.

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

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This is another point about FATES that people dont like because it doesn't give you a sense of meaningful encounter. Its just and HP bar you are waiting to hit 0%.

A more dynamic system that could be implemented is not hard to think of, even if you want to still use FATES at the core of it.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

This is another point about FATES that people dont like because it doesn't give you a sense of meaningful encounter. Its just and HP bar you are waiting to hit 0%.

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Someone's going to try and come in here and whittle down stuff like Savage to fit this statement, watch. But this really is the problem.

The basic, core idea behind FATEs - essentially creating a "battle arena" circle that the monster can't be pulled away from or else it'll reset - is fine. At that point it's, and bear with me here because this entire post is inevitably going to be XI vs XIV (and that's Yoshi's damn fault for trying to shallowly appeal to people like me with this Eureka horse****), pretty much just an overworld BCNM. Except... I can't think of a single FATE that is more than "zerg until it's dead" and occasionally sidestep telegraph AoEs. The two most notable FATEs in my mind, barring the various non-combat things wherein you pick up items and turn them into NPCs (and those aren't good either!), would be The Eyes Have It in Coerthas Central Highlands and Special Tarasque Force in Dravanian Forelands.

The former is the only one I can think of off-hand in the entire game that includes a boss that kills without telegraphing (a staple for that enemy type that gets repeated very often), and the latter just spams the hell out of an enormous proximity-based AoE that can't be locked down due to the game-wide limitations placed upon stuns. But both of those FATEs, too, are still just a zerg - except you run a set distance away from the monster every so often and then return to beating its face in. Riveting.

If Yoshi wants to evoke nostalgia or emotions or whatever from XI, maybe he should first instruct his team to add some damn meat to the two systems they overuse at every conceivable opportunity. 'Cause god forbid we do anything but push maximum DPS at all times in absolutely everything ever:
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Weakness_Trigger
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/V...tch_Weaknesses

And god forbid we do some actual "hunting" in our hunts:
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/C...rious_Monsters

To say nothing of having something more in place than "oh, window's open, time to do [fishing/throwing away items/gathering/clearing specific FATE/etc] to maybe spawn a single NM (S Rank) once:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...ravnmv0975.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vWihfifjey...o-nu/a4sky.jpg
https://ffxi.gamerescape.com/w/image...eanmsystem.jpg

Which is not to say that XI was perfect, because it wasn't. Not in the least. But XIV's steadfast refusal to take things from XI, improve upon them and make them somewhat more accessible is offensive enough without them then trying to "cater" to the XI community - many of which hate this game's guts already, I need to add - with some piss poor design that also kicks their loyal XIV players in the crotch.

/rant

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

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Ya know, I like how you put all that. It sounds like Eureka will be somewhat of a throwback to XI's style and I'm happy for that. But without the same combat system or things like weakness triggers or item pops, it will be a shadow of itself but that's about all we can get in this game. I've been saying for a while there are so many things they could adapt to work in XIV's framework but seem so scared of alienating one portion of their audience or another. I'm still going to wait and see how Eureka performs before passing judgement (not that it will matter cause I need to get my relics and they know this), but as I think about it I wonder if they'll cave into the inevitable cries for restructuring.