Anyone else think the cap of 900 for tomes should be the future cap?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

You cannot put mounts in everything otherwise people stop caring since it's no longer anything special.

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Mhm...
We have mounts in Savage, in EX primals and PotD (higher floors) already. We also have them in Beast Tribes. We sometimes even have them in the MSQ.
What even is missing? NM raids and dungeons?

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Mhm...
We have mounts in Savage, in EX primals and PotD (higher floors) already. We also have them in Beast Tribes. We sometimes even have them in the MSQ.
What even is missing? NM raids and dungeons?

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No one does Savage on content for the mount. It's a secondary reward with a significantly higher drop rate (50% at release, iirc. 100% afterwards). The rest can either be bought or are guaranteed. They aren't intended as incentives. Are you really suggesting they make it so the only reason to continuously run stuff once you've bought the now unlimited Scripture gear... is mounts?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Are you really suggesting they make it so the only reason to continuously run stuff once you've bought the now unlimited Scripture gear... is mounts?

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For some people, yes, not everyone is fixated on phat lewt as the be all and end all of MMOs.

I couldn't care a fig about gear's ilevel or anything else, gear is a gating mechanism for content access, nothing more .. and content gives REWARDS that people are interested in and lots of people are interested in mounts and other stuff.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

They aren't intended as incentives.

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:|

EVERY reward is intended as incentive. There's no reason to reward something otherwise. But that's beside the point.

What I'm questioning is the mentality of:"If it's everywhere, it's no longer anything special and therefore not worth attaining." and that people would stop caring as a result. Mounts already ARE almost everywhere. They already "are" no longer anything special. By that logic, people should have stopped caring about them "already".

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

See this is why I find it stupid. Tome gear is casual gear I should be able to get what ever amount of tomes I want. But due to the silly system of the gear being the same Ilvl as raid gear eventually we have these silly limitations. If casual people who are not interested in raiding then Dun Scaith equivalent should be their end game gear.

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2nd best tome gear is all what a casual need to be ready for the casual content. It is also all what someone need to do 24 man raids.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

What I'm questioning is the mentality of:"If it's everywhere, it's no longer anything special and therefore not worth attaining."

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ABSOLUTELY AGREE .. I d couldn't care a fig how many others have something that appeals to me, I'm not trying to be a special snowflake, I use galmours/mounts/titles that I find amusing or whatever and I really don't care if every other player in the game has them too.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

:|

EVERY reward is intended as incentive. There's no reason to reward something otherwise. But that's beside the point.

What I'm questioning is the mentality of:"If it's everywhere, it's no longer anything special and therefore not worth attaining." and that people would stop caring as a result. Mounts already ARE almost everywhere. They already "are" no longer anything special. By that logic, people should have stopped caring about them "already".

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Uh, no, they aren't. Some rewards are essentially "you did a good job." When it's guaranteed, that won't incentivize people to do it. Hence why no one does Savage unless they're already raiding. The mount is nothing more than a "Hey, I got this thing". Gear is what they're after.

A lot already have. The one site that actually tracks mount collection shows it's not nearly as popular as people like to believe. Putting them in even more content won't make people do it anymore than they already do.

I don't know if it was mentioned before, but are people ignoring the ilvl250 gear from Alex9-12 NM for a reason? You needed ilvl230 to enter it, which can be easily farmed with dungeons and you will got ilvl250 out of it.
So you have 3 ways of gearing up: Tomes, Alex NM, Dungeons. And even 1 more possibility as soon as the 24 Raid is released.

If all of this + crafting + gathering + exploring the games world is not enough to keep you busy, you could start playing something else besides FFXIV and get some variety to not burn out? (no offense, just an honest question)

Not sure if this was also mentioned before, so sorry if I am repeating, but there are a lot of people who are playing just about a few hours a week and they deserve a chance to stay up to date as well. :)
If there were no cap on Loot in the beginning, they would be behind within a week or two and that might kill their motivation to play. :(
Therefore I think the cap is a good way of giving a fair chance to everyone when the content is still relevant and active.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

There was a time cap was 300.



So what do you suggest for casuals to get their gear?
People keep complaining "No more tomestone, its getting old" bla bla bla but never saw any of them actually suggest a good replacement.

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Something, anything that doesn't feel like a chore. Why are you subvertively suggesting that casuals are incapable of doing stuff? And if they were, why would they even need gear?

You still aren't suggesting anything, and casu need gear because content ask more powerful gear. I can assure you if you come do Baelsar's wall with the Heavensward starting gear you were using for Neverreap, you'll be pretty useless.

Why are people complaining about toms?

They are easily capped in less than a week if the only thing you are doing is Expert and Trials roulette.
Easy way to get gear where there is no RNG involved or blocked behind hard content.

And besides, the iL260 is not required to finish the MSQ or any of the normal dungeons/trials/raids. Why make such a big deal of something that is easy and yet not required of you to have to play the game?

I'v set the standards way low because this is what I've been reading in the past few pages regarding this topic.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Why make such a big deal of something that is easy and yet not required of you to have to play the game?

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Because they pay for their sub, so they want high gear without doing anything :)

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Uh, no, they aren't.

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Yes they are. That is precisely what rewards are - a tool to control behavior via incentives. What do you think a "Good Job!" is supposed to achieve? To reinforce the behavior you show and incentivize you to do it more often/keep at it. Incentives simply don't always work. Many firms give you a monetary incentive to work overtime or night shift, but people simply often prefer to chill at home and sleep at the times they're used to. Likewise, many people have so much money, they stopped caring about it and instead want prestige and promotion options - monetary incentives fall completely flat for those people. Similar goes for any other incentive - including mounts, gear and anything else.

Further, you are complete and utterly wrong in every way when you say that a guaranteed reward doesn't serve as incentive. As a matter of fact, a guaranteed reward will always have a higher incentive function than an identical reward tied to probability - People are more willing to do a given task for 100$ than a chance at attaining 100$. The chance at not obtaining the reward requires the reward to be set higher to achieve the same incentive as a guaranteed reward. How much higher depends on the risk sensitivity of the individual. Likewise, people do temporal discounting when judging rewards - an apple today is worth more to people than an apple in a year. Delayed rewards also have to be higher to be worth as much as immediate rewards. Individual preferences also play a role here - an apple might be worth more than a pear to one person and vice versa to another. That's one of the reasons rewards frequently fall flat.

It's a well studied field. Go educate yourself. It's far too expansive to put it in a forum post.

That said, I can only speak for myself, but I personally never cared for mounts as such in the first place - I only care for a select few mounts I like the look of. Likewise, I don't care for glamour as such - I care about specific pieces because I find them pretty. And I care naught for stats - They're solely a means to an end.
Any reward SE puts up will be judged by my personal preference filter and will fail to fulfill its purpose if it is not judged favorably. If it manages to suit my preferences, it will be subjected to scrutiny of temporal accounting and risk accounting. My behavior will only change if after those steps, the effort to reward ratio still seems "worth it" to me, in which case, the incentive succeeded. Otherwise, it fails.

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Originally Posted by Galborion

Yeah? What is forcing you to grind up to 900 if you dont want to? Your OCD? So because of that noone else should have an option?

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my point is that if you do it 900 people will gear up much faster, this then creates a deviation in the kind of content they have to try and make. do they make dungeons/raids aimed at those who cap out 900 every week or ones who cap somewhere below that.
So the main 2 reasons for 450 is 1) Stop people gearing too quickly, 2) stop people from burning out.

IF SE was going to increase the weekly limit from 450 to 900 they would more than likely double the cost of the gear too at the same time at which point there will still be complaints.

SE limit it to force you to slowly to go though content, you may not like this fact but that is the reason.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

I don't know if it was mentioned before, but are people ignoring the ilvl250 gear from Alex9-12 NM for a reason? You needed ilvl230 to enter it,

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I can assure you my friends are not going around asking if someone capped scrips, many people in this thread have mention that with the new increase they have not even capped more than once. For me Ive capped every single week because it allows me to get every job I play close to ilvl 260. And the op is just simply suggesting that the cap we have now be the same and people are acting like just because the cap would be higher that then somehow they would be forced to max out tomes every week. This isnt true it would be a choice not something you had to do, like I said previously in this thread many people have limited experience with only being able to have the best gear you have accessed to capped.

Im starting to wonder if Im on a unique server or something , almost everyone in my fc tries multiple jobs signs in daily and always upgrade their jobs gear. Like it is so rare to find those whom only level one job and thats it and whem I check peoples profile Its very rare to see someone with just one or two jobs leveled. This game takes pride in its all on one system, so then why do you force people into one roll with a 450 cap on tomes. I may be rare but If Im gona raid and I already have the best tomes gear at that point I could care less about getting gear from a raid because if its the same itlvl with the same main stats then why replace it when it will become obsolete by the time I finished grinding weeks to get it. Again if a cap was 900 people still aren't forced to cap they can stick with their 450 they are used to. And those whom play just a few hours a week will be totally fine with just dungeon drop gear, and whether or not they capped tomes wouldnt matter, I do not know why people think every player should be accommodated in this game as if all types of players or equally dedicated to the game.

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Originally Posted by ffchampion

my point is that if you do it 900 people will gear up much faster, this then creates a deviation in the kind of content they have to try and make. do

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Seriously what is two quickly I dont understand this a weapon now is what 1000 tomes thats one week, a chest piece 825, pants 825, another month two in a half weeks for right side pieces. Then your other pieces we are still talking in terms of months here 2 months minimum and patches come out every 3 months so Im really not following how this is so fast.

We are still talking over two month if you include a weapon to gear one job or month in a half so your telling me the game is that boring that people have nothing to do for a whole month if they only play one job and got max itemlvl. I know so many people that are maxed everything that still play all the time, the unsub ever here and there people I dont really believe are the ones SE should be concerned about because they arent reliable customers in the first place.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

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I can see what you mean, but I still don't see the problem in the 450 cap.
Yes, you are somehow slowed down.
Yes, you maybe can't gear up all jobs at once.
I get all of that, but it just doesn't seem to be a problem.

So, you want ilvl260 on all of your jobs to have them equipped. I understand, it's like finishing it and being ready to take care of new stuff. I just don't understand why it needs to be faster than it is possible with 450 stones. ._.
Nothing in the game is running from you and nothing is disappearing just because you need a few weeks longer. :O
Plus: You are not really locked out of stuff even though you are equipping more than 1 job at a time. As I said before, there is Alex NM 250 gear which you can mix with the Tome stuff.
Yes, it is locked as well, but are people here really in such a rush? :O

I do get the point, but I just can't figure out why it is such a huge problem for some people. ^^'


Edit: Just as a side note, who wants to go in full Tome gear anyways, since the stats will be totally screwed. :D

The amount of posts in this thread insisting some easy way out ideology, max gear, or raid mentality in here disgusts me. Even more so when I explicitly stated the only reason I liked the 900 tome cap directly in the first thread.

There is only one reason I wanted a 900 tome cap. That is so I can play up to 4 or more classes more freely. It's not cause I want easy to obtain gear, its not cause I want the max ilvl without doing hard content, its not cause I want to use 4 classes while raiding or an easy way to get gear without raiding. Honestly if the gear on my class could be raised to a minimum ilvl for next patch via some quest that would suite me just fine so get out of here with all that bullshit.

Its because I enjoy playing more than 2 classes in the current content at any given time. If I don't continue to gear all 4 classes I enjoy playing, they will fall behind and I cannot play them anymore due to ilvl requirements.. Should I find another class to enjoy playing later on after stormblood is released, what then? I'm an old ffxi player, where you could litterally enjoy the game on any class at any given time. All you had to do was level it and obtain some decent gear without worrying about this vertical progression. It was a fun and probably one of the reasons I never got bored of it. This game playing 1-2 classes through most of it, I get bored, plain and simple a 900 cap has helped significantly to alleviate that.

I don't understand why people think you should only have 1 or 2 classes to play as. Who cares if raid statics only want you on one class all the time. I can still enjoy them in EX primals, the 24 raid, party finder, and other content with friends like aquapolis. No I don't need the best gear for that content but ITS NOT ABOUT HAVING THE BEST GEAR. Its about keeping up with the vertical system so I can play more than just 1-2 classes<= how many times does that have to be said. Can we stop pretending crafting gear is a solution for everybody. Not everyone wants to spend 5 Million gil every patch buying more crafting gear that will just get replaced. Until SE realizes that having only 5-15% of the population on a server able to make gear that has a very low lifespan with monopoly prices is a problem I refuse to consider this gear a solution. That's coming from someone who has crafting leveled and geared well.

A 450 tome increase to the cap does not mean you need to get 450 more tomes before reset. The people thinking along these lines frustrate me. Why do you feel like you NEED to cap and HAVE to farm those extra 450? I've only capped one time since the 900 release but those extra tomes has helped me get 2 extra classes near the 245 ilvl mark to enjoy. Does having a higher cap somehow psychologically frustrate you, if so then wait till these people saying 450 tome caps per class get their way. You will have a 450 cap per class to worry about instead.

I just don't understand all this hate and presumptuous bullshit about taking the easy way out. People are still going to raid regardless of a 450 tome increase. IF they don't continue to raid because of that then the raiding system is bad by design. That's all I can say.

People on these forums frustrate me to no end why do you have to justify the 450 cap by trying to make anyone who likes the idea look lazy, a bad player, noncrafter, a nonraider, or flat out undeserving. A simple opinion of why YOU don't want 900 tomes per cap is all you needed to put here.

Sorry for this post but its my last, I'm done. Enjoy yourselves.

If it's not about "best gear", then dungeon loot plus a couple of tome accessories will let you access the most recent EX/Savage content and then you don't even need a lot of tomes anyway.

I think it's safe to say that most people have one or two "main jobs" that at any given time are only a few iLvls below the current maximum. Expecting to be able to keep 4+ jobs at that level of gearing is unrealistic and isn't what the developers intended.

Keeping a couple of jobs at i265+ and a couple more at i250+ is braindead easy, however, and will still let you into all content.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

I can see what you mean, but I still don't see the problem in the 450 cap.
Yes, you are somehow slowed down.
Yes, you maybe can't gear up all jobs at once.
I get all of that, but it just doesn't seem to be a problem.
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(Now if we go back to only getting 450 a week, given it takes 5,760 tomes to gear one class, so 11,520 tomes are needed to gear two classes, at 450 a week it would take 25.6 weeks to gear two classes vs 12.8 at 900 a week.)

This was the math that someone did , 25.6 weeks is insane and ridiculous considering all the job choices you have like if you think thats a fast time you have more free time on your hands than I do. And the main reason for me to want all jobs leveled as Ive stated I do not play a one job fits all in content if I did that Its possible I may have never cleared some stuff.

For example if the first extreme primal in stormblood is sophia type even tho I main tanks I would prefer not to tank a boss like Sophia because its more than just the boss I cant even focus on the tethers in there. Something like a9s on the other hand Id prefer to tank that, or thordan extreme other things are up in the air. But I play jobs not only because I enjoy variety and I think SE did a great job , but I play different jobs because it helps me to clear content based on whats going on in that said content. Sure I could clear it all on the same role but which one would be the easiest to learn sense Im playing with others etc.

So its more than just having all jobs on the same ilvl its having the option to bring in the best job I can for whatever content Im doiing. Like I know many a healer friend that mains healers they are always on their astro or whm, but if they are doing more challenging content they go in as a dps because they dont want that pressure of healing something they may not be ready to heal. You would honestly think the way people on this thread or talking that they would want to dismantle the job system and just play one job only.


I have a mix of all gear some pieces just honestly suck alot of diadem gear is trash so If I could I would probably replace them with with shire stuff. As it stands now my jobs lowest ilvl is 238 so Im well on my way to having all to 260. Im not really concerned about now because as of now gear isnt that important Im more concerned about after storm blood hits and tryin to jump into content then and being forced into one role. Thats not how I play the game and it shouldn't even be asked of me when the game gives you 15 jobs but expects you to only gear one thats bad for business to me.

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Originally Posted by seekified

If it's not about "best gear", then dungeon loot plus a couple of tome accessories will let you access the most recent EX/Savage content and then you don't .

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Id like to see that in writing I dont see how the devs wouldnt want people to play as many jobs as they felt otherwise why even have the job system. All tanks have one function tank its nothing to switch in and out between them, same as healers the goal is to heal and to dps when you can. Playing a dps in this game is basically going on youtube and finding a good rotation now you can pretty much take your dps job into nearly all content. So I dont really understand how you could say the devs didnt want you to play as many jobs as you want when they pretty much share the same concept.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

That is so I can play up to 4 or more classes more freely. It's not cause I want easy to obtain gear, its not cause I want the max ilvl without doing hard content, its not cause I want to use 4 classes while raiding or an easy way to get gear without raiding.

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And we are saying in that case, the only thing actually stopping you from using your other jobs with a lower ilvl is you, not the game.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

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I see what you mean and of course 25.6 weeks is a long period of time, but again, there are more ways for gearing up than just tomes.
As I mentioned before there are at least 5 ways of gearing your classes:

• Tomestones
• Alex NM
• 24-man-Raid
• Dungeon drops
• EX-Primals (for weapons only)

Since you plan to equip your jobs with Tome-only-gear I figure out you are not caring about 2nd/3rd stats, so it would be fine to take any gear you can get. :)
Some of the named possible ways are not up straight from the beginning of an even patch, true, but they are still there at some point.
With a mixture of all the possibilities you will get your classes in a much quicker time geared and they will have the ilvl needed to enter every content. (Remember, even A12s just needs an ilvl of 255 ;) )

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Originally Posted by raela

And we are saying in that case, the only thing actually stopping you from using your other jobs with a lower ilvl is you, not the game.

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Exactly this.
You don't need ilvl260 to enter any content atm. It is simply not needed!

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Id like to see that in writing I dont see how the devs wouldnt want people to play as many jobs as they felt otherwise why even have the job system. All tanks have one function tank its nothing to switch in and out between them, same as healers the goal is to heal and to dps when you can. Playing a dps in this game is basically going on youtube and finding a good rotation now you can pretty much take your dps job into nearly all content. So I dont really understand how you could say the devs didnt want you to play as many jobs as you want when they pretty much share the same concept.

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Playing a job and having it in endgame gear are two completely different things. You're essentially saying that you refuse to play jobs that aren't in full Diabolic/Shire/Alexandrian gear at this point, which frankly is ridiculous. As I've said, you can get into and be competitive in all content in the game even if you're in mostly i245 dungeon gear with a few i260 pieces thrown in. The only thing stopping you here is you.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

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Poorly worded in retrospect, I'll admit. Nevertheless, the crux of the argument is putting mounts in everything as a replacement to tomestone grinding won't achieve the desired effect. Incentives inevitably have deprecating value. The easier and less prestige they are, the less likely people are to bother. Taking the story into context, you have do it. The incentive isn't a mount, but unlocking content and/or raids. Likewise, your example with Savage doesn't properly equate because it isn't the mount people are after. They want gear. Does this apply to everyone? No. But it's a failed incentive if the vast majority of people aren't concerned by it. Hence why shoehorning mounts into everything as a replacement to the tomestone grind we do now won't work.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

(Now if we go back to only getting 450 a week, given it takes 5,760 tomes to gear one class, so 11,520 tomes are needed to gear two classes, at 450 a week it would take 25.6 weeks to gear two classes vs 12.8 at 900 a week.)

This was the math that someone did , 25.6 weeks is insane and ridiculous considering all the job choices you have like if you think thats a fast time you have more free time on your hands than I do. And the main reason for me to want all jobs leveled as Ive stated I do not play a one job fits all in content if I did that Its possible I may have never cleared some stuff.

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That applies only if you do nothing else except run dungeons and EX Primals, none of which require nearly as high level gear. You can also omit weapons and settle on primal ones for your alt jobs. PotD made getting those even easier. If you want to gear up multiple jobs more quickly, you do have another option: Savage. Like Seekified said, playing a job and having full 260 or 270 are two entirely different things.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

What stopped you from enjoying more jobs that didn't have i260 tomestone gear? Crafted gear is only 10 iLvls lower, after all.

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It's not cheap to get a full set of that though.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Poorly worded in retrospect, I'll admit. Nevertheless, the crux of the argument is putting mounts in everything as a replacement to tomestone

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The thing is it depends on your motivation for raiding I simply will raid just to prove to myself that I'm skilled enough to do the content the gear isn't any incentive to me at all its a plus. But not why I do the content bis doesn't really hold any weight to me as long as it isnt trash gear. Because bis doesn't even matter in raids itself because if you cleared it before you got the gear from the raid then it obviously wasnt something you needed to beat the content, and everything else doesnt even require such gear. Like for instance if I had all shire 270 now and I get some drops for a tank Im not even gona click need on it more than likely because I dont need it. And whats going on now isnt the norm Its a ton of rng with raiding just as bad as mount drops same reason that once I got the peaguas from diadum the 280 weapon wasnt even a thought in my mind at all and havent been back sense.

Tomes gear is straight forward no rng involved you get your tomes from doing your content and you reap the rewards for it , I mean if its a crime to not be a fan of rng then I guess Im guilty of that because knowing that its a below 50 percent chance of gettin something then I will likely find other means. So raiding to me doesnt mean gear it means testing my skills, I dont have to farm it once I have cleared it when I have a much more straight forward way of obtaining 100 percent gear. And I am 100 percent fine with where my jobs are at now my bard ilvl is 238 which is my lowest atm and will be 260 by stormblood my issue is I have never played the game in a way that I had to prioritize one job and many other players haven't either.

The Ops post is asking for this in stormblood not talking about the current system even tho people keep referring to it. Like I said I play different jobs based on the content not because I am stuck on having a main if I can heal something better than I can tank it then Id rather have the option to change if need be I dont want to be shoehorned and put into a corner. I started maybe a year after hw and have always had the option to have every job around the same ilvl: 50 all jobs could be 120, 60 all jobs could be 230 with lore gear and now all jobs can be above 230. I dont want to be put in a situation where I am gearing up my job with tomes gear and my other job I use just as much is stuck in vendor trash gear because of a 450 cap. So the difference is you speak of raid gear which is rng and tomes gear which is a straight shoot are players bad for just wanting something that is a 100 percent return on investment?

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

I'd rather have no more tomestones at all, the formula got old 3 years ago.

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I'd rather not get screwed over by the RNG system. That formula got old 18 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

I'd rather not get screwed over by the RNG system. That formula got old 18 years ago.

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Nice bad paraphrasing, as I didn't imply that at all, even if that's something I'd rather have.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

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So... play a different job. You literally say bis isn't a requirement (it isn't) yet still care about getting all 260 or 270 faster. Nothing is preventing you from swapping jobs on a whim except your insistence they need equivalent gear. You may not fancy running Savage for weekly loot drops-- which is perfectly okay. But you can't then turn your nose up at the game and claim it's unfair how long gearing takes. There's a whole alternative method you aren't willing to do.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

What you're asking for is simply unrealistic.

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I've played games that prove this wrong. Very very wrong. In those games they have content from 2-3 expansions that is still relevant. And not even from a leveling standpoint.

Maybe I should share my gear experience, might light a fire in some to understand how they can do it too.

I have every job at 60. My lowest ilvl job is i268, Monk. Barely even play it. Yet everything else is full i270, with most jobs having an i275 Alex or anima weapon. Some jobs are not "full-BiS" because they need tome i270 gear over Alex i270, but that's okay. The 900 cap helps filling this out until the end of this xpac.

Nonetheless I'm nearly-completely geared on every job because of Alex Savage being unlocked and farming all floors while getting anima light as well! Our static had also been clearing floors since week 1. Challenge yourselves a bit, get out more and tackle harder content and you too can play in a pool of nice gear.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

but the jobs while different all have a basic concept , tanks will tank , healers will heal , so thats pretty much six jobs you can switch in an out and it not even really matter but they share makes it a bit easier. But its not unreasonable to take a job into any form of content because basically a dps has one function and thats to dps but yet they are all broken up into different gear sets.

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Some flexibility is good for people to have. However....

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Maybe you wouldn't take them into savage content but normal moods have gear requirements, so do extreme primals and to have to gear them all unevenly is a disservice imo.

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Can you honestly say that you would take all 13 of the current jobs evenly into Zurvan Ex?
Or Sophia Ex? Thordan Ex? And normal modes have even lower ilvl requirements than Ex or Savage. Story mode Alex Creator's minimum ilvl is 230. That's a full set of Unaugmented (and also, uncapped) Lore gear.

I think it's also worth noting that if you have a full 8-man party, you don't need to meet minimum ilvl for things like Normal Mode or even Ex primals. I cleared Sophia Ex easily with an ilvl of 232, where the minimum is 235. Higher ilvl does not necessarily mean better.

If you feel that not having all jobs at ilvl 260+ is a disservice, that's not a fault of the capped system. That's you putting pressure on yourself to evenly gear jobs.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

There is only one reason I wanted a 900 tome cap. That is so I can play up to 4 or more classes more freely. It's not cause I want easy to obtain gear, its not cause I want the max ilvl without doing hard content, its not cause I want to use 4 classes while raiding or an easy way to get gear without raiding. Honestly if the gear on my class could be raised to a minimum ilvl for next patch via some quest that would suite me just fine so get out of here with all that bullshit.

Its because I enjoy playing more than 2 classes in the current content at any given time. If I don't continue to gear all 4 classes I enjoy playing, they will fall behind and I cannot play them anymore due to ilvl requirements.. Should I find another class to enjoy playing later on after stormblood is released, what then?

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I just want to repeat what I said in an earlier post: I had the 4 jobs (yes, 4, like you) that I play the most all geared out, and close to 260 (with two of them having relatively up-to-date animas) before the release of Dun Scaith, much less before the tome cap increase and the removal of lockouts. Nothing is stopping you from gearing all of those jobs. If other people can gear up more than 1-2 jobs with a 450 tome cap, then you can as well. You just gotta be willing to do it.

If you care so little for crafted gear, there is also the story mode 8-man gear, which is equal in ilvl to crafted gear. Careful planning can net you at least 2 pieces of gear per week, and the ilvl requirements to enter are not going to be steep.

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A 450 tome increase to the cap does not mean you need to get 450 more tomes before reset. The people thinking along these lines frustrate me. Why do you feel like you NEED to cap and HAVE to farm those extra 450?

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Why do you feel like you need 900 tomes per week? Why do you feel so much pressure to cap on ilvl on so many jobs that you want to change the system that has been in place for quite some time now? Your argument can swing both ways.

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People on these forums frustrate me to no end why do you have to justify the 450 cap by trying to make anyone who likes the idea look lazy, a bad player, noncrafter, a nonraider, or flat out undeserving. A simple opinion of why YOU don't want 900 tomes per cap is all you needed to put here.

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Because most of those responses were to people commenting about how they can't get all the tomestone gear they want, and they seem to be ignoring the fact that tomestone gear is not the only gear available to them. If they choose to limit themselves to capped tome gear, that's on them, not on anyone else, not on the cap system.

And people were just posting their opinions. If you don't like what people here have to say, then you shouldn't have made the thread. You can't expect everyone to agree with your opinion on things. And maybe some people were sounding blunt/mean in their posts, but again. They were sharing their thoughts and opinions on this matter. Sorry they aren't the same as yours.

I don't see a higher cap as being necessary honestly. I have every class at level cap and don't raid Savage. My lowest ilevel classes are i249 which is good enough to queue into anything besides A10S+/Zurvan Ex. On the off chance I suddenly decide to raid I've got some healers and brd/mch high enough to queue and could use the uncapped Savage drops to bring anything else up.

When things are brand new then yes, you need to make choices on what's getting geared up first. If you're doing serious high end content you will likely be in a premade group that can ignore the ilevel requirements if you decide to switch roles.
For normal content uncapped sources of gear are good enough to get you in.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

So... play a different job. You literally say bis isn't a requirement (it isn't) yet still care about getting all 260 or 270 faster. Nothing is

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This thread is about the future cap not the current one and thats what I was refering to my healers and tanks are at ilvl 260 plus I know thats totally fine for the content thats in the game now. I know I can bring these jobs into anything my dragoon is ilvl 250 and will be higher by the end of the week because of the 900 cap. I am not talkin about when things are good like they are now, Im referring to end of the base story of stormblood at the start of endgame content.

From my understanding you are forced into one job role due to a 450 cap Im saying its different going from as many options as we have now to gear to going back to something that is very strict like that. I dont understand why people continue to talk about current gear methods when the op clearly stated the future cap. Meaning they like how it is now , and I agree 900 is a better number than 450 I dont see how this can be argued. It allows you to have more flexibility on what jobs you can play at higher level content I am not talkin about dungeons me and you have already agreed on another thread that mim ilvl for a dungeon is all you need but for me doing higher lvl content is better with higher level gear.

900 seems like a better cap to me, it's still eye-dropper gearing in the end, but if you do log in everyday you won't have capped 3-4 days in.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

This thread is about the future cap not the current one and thats what I was refering to my healers and tanks are at ilvl 260 plus I know thats totally fine for the content thats in the game now. I know I can bring these jobs into anything my dragoon is ilvl 250 and will be higher by the end of the week because of the 900 cap. I am not talkin about when things are good like they are now, Im referring to end of the base story of stormblood at the start of endgame content.

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More than likely, SE will follow the same formula for 4.0 that they have for 2.0 and 3.0, where as the only steep ilvl requirements would be that tier of Savage raids. Everything else would be doable by the "casual" playerbase without having to have the current patch's max ilvl. When it comes to Savage content, most of it is done with a static, and most people stick to either 1 or 2 roles for their initial clears, and later on start to experiment with other jobs. Even with a 450 cap, they gear up their most played/primary job(s) first, because they're going to run that content with a job they are most familiar/comfortable with. Not flip-flop from DRK to WHM to BRD to PLD to SCH for each run.

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From my understanding you are forced into one job role due to a 450 cap Im saying its different going from as many options as we have now to gear to going back to something that is very strict like that. I dont understand why people continue to talk about current gear methods when the op clearly stated the future cap. Meaning they like how it is now , and I agree 900 is a better number than 450 I dont see how this can be argued. It allows you to have more flexibility on what jobs you can play at higher level content I am not talkin about dungeons me and you have already agreed on another thread that mim ilvl for a dungeon is all you need but for me doing higher lvl content is better with higher level gear.

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That is a misconception. Plenty have stated that they geared up multiple jobs prior to any tome cap increase, or lockout removal. Some of them aren't even Savage raiders. The cap isn't there to lock you into a single job to gear; it's there to prevent players from blazing through content by farming ALL NEEDED GEAR (and yes, there are some that would farm and farm and farm that first week, gear all their jobs, and then never touch the content again), and to keep those duty queues moving. With careful planning, and utilization of as many gearing methods as possible, one can easily gear up more than 1 job with caps/lockouts in place, and have them ready to run content like Ex primals, especially if the gear is shared by multiple jobs (AF sets make it harder, but it's still doable).

And the current gear options were also the current gear options when the 450 cap/lockouts were in place, and future 450-capped tomes will probably have similar options:

-- the capped tomestone gear (Scripture)
-- story-mode 8-man gear (Creater NM)
-- crafted gear (i250 gear)
-- 24-man raid gear (Dun Scaith)
-- current Savage raid gear (Creator Savage)

Just like 2.55 had similar options: Poetics gear (which was capped at 450, later raised to 900 just like Scripture), the ilvl 110 crafted gear, gear from World of Darkness, and the Dreadwyrm gear from Final Coil.

People bring up the different gear options because others post about how the cap on tomestones needs to be removed so they can get tome gear faster. These people seem to be under the impression that tome gear was the only gear available to them, when that is not the case, and more than likely won't be the case come 4.0, and subsequent patches.

They could always make tomes acquired in the open world instead of only in instanced content that would be one way to get people outside of the main hubs and making the world look more alive and my example is fates seriously that would make the game feel more alive if players could see high level players running around in the open world. More ways of acquiring tomes would greatly help.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

They could always make tomes acquired in the open world instead of only in instanced content that would be one way to get people outside of the main hubs and making the world look more alive and my example is fates seriously that would make the game feel more alive if players could see high level players running around in the open world. More ways of acquiring tomes would greatly help.

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I'd like this especially if we could level alt jobs while doing it.