Silver chest farming in PotD, harassed by speedrunners. (More ingored PvE harassment)

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

No, it is there to give people an alternative to get a weapon, the EXP is supposed to be just a side bonus, not greif people out of getting silvers. You are just trying to promote toxicity and it offends me. If 4/4 do not agree to speed run, you do not speedrun, you cannot greif by majority. At some point you need x amount of arm and armor to even to be able to function on the higher floors. Just because you are not new, does not give you a right to greif new people and making them speed run with you not helping and afking at gate.

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So in some other words people, not just you, rather take their chances with random parties, feel mistreated, complain, rather than use common sense, build one of their own with a purpose.?

PotD is a nice way to get a weapon that is currently decent if people don't do raids, farm scripts, are behind, yet expect to be treated by more advance players as equals when doing runs. Lets focus on the facts people have option, some are more advanced than others. Why would person constantly torture themselves than do a shout to team up or build a party in PF?

I feel you. I do. But, you don't get to decide what the norm is. The community sets it, and the community has spoken. Speedrunners are the norm, so if you want to farm chests, set up a PF.

Just like if you wanted to watch all the cutscenes in Castrum. The community norm in DF is to skip, so set up a PF if you want to go against the grain.

It's not griefing just because you are the outlier.

as far as i see it , OP just asked for something to remove PvE toxicity . the PvP chat thing was just an example? or im wrong ? ^^
tho if u really meant to disable PvE chat , thats not gona solve anything , communicating is essential in a MMO ^^

also ofc theres several reasons to go in to PotD , but as in other content people dont know what manners are since they dont suffer any consequences XD

also ur speed run isnt going to be faster if u let 1 player get all chest by themselfs :P

what i noticed sometimes on chaos datacenter when i did PotD that people split up in 2 x 2 and go through all the rooms , that way the run is still fast , and theres no raging ^^

Also common courtesy should be to help the player in need , that means if someone does need blue chests for whatever reason , and u force a speed run ur just being a jerk XD
A speed run is hardly more important then someone who needs bluechests to advance to the next 10 floors.
U can try to throw the words all around like u want, it still dosnt make it better^^ its still being a jerk if u dont help ur fellow players who are in need of blue chests.

Its not the players fault when they need blue chests , yet people are trying to make it sound like one . Also its not a players fault , when you are short in time and want a fast run.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

People should not assume "speed running" is the norm, farming for chests is

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No. Farming for chest is useless since you use match making and none of what you got except subtrat will remain on the next 10 floor step. If you use the match making, you're likely here to exp and thus no need for chest. If you go premade then you can go for chest since they will remain 'til the end.
Plus if you farm chest for substrat, it's easily done while speedrunning. I got an average of +10 weap/armor every 50 floors.

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

Also common courtesy should be to help the player in need , that means if someone does need blue chests for whatever reason , and u force a speed run ur just being a jerk XD

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One player's need isn't more important than another's, though. Player A needs silver chests. Player B needs fast exp to grind levels. Maybe Player C needs Potsherds. None of these are more important than another.

That's the deal, here. You can't arbitrarily say that one need has priority. It's not fair. And that's why DF will always be a majority rules kinda thing. If the other 3 people in your group want to do it one way, you adapt or you leave.

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

as far as i see it , OP just asked for something to remove PvE toxicity . the PvP chat thing was just an example? or im wrong ? ^^
tho if u really meant to disable PvE chat , thats not gona solve anything , communicating is essential in a MMO ^^

also ofc theres several reasons to go in to PotD , but as in other content people dont know what manners are since they dont suffer any consequences XD

Its not the players fault when they need blue chests , yet people are trying to make it sound like one . Also its not a players fault , when you are short in time and want a fast run.

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OP is really upset about the removal about the PvP chat, so even if they're admitting that it would be horrible to remove the chat enterily they're arguing that it would only be "fair" - they dont think its a good solution in either content, so they're using situations like this to get their PvP chat back...

For the rest though... as you pointed out correctly different intrests are no ones fault, both are valid and its up to the party to choose how to proceed in that content.
The problem here is: It goes both ways, even with manners. I, personally, would feel bad being the only person needing chests and holding everyone else back - my progress with chests isnt more important than their progress with the run and being new to content doesnt make the other three people my tour guides who have to ensure that I get the best experience possible. Its ofc nice when they try and do that but its nothing I should just expect or even have a right to get.
Being new doesnt make you a special snowflake that everyone in a run should revolve around.

It is important to understand that no one is "right" or "wrong" here - people had a disagreement, one person lost and feels now misstreated because the rest of the team wouldnt sacrfice their own intrest for theirs.

(Short anekdote, not from PotD but from Haukke Manor NM - its been a while but we had that arcanist in there once, around level 29 or so? Rest of the party was at max level and was doing low level roulette for the tomes - as in: wanted a quick run without going for extra mobs, the arcanist was told so, yet they proceeded to pull extra mobs to the party. We kicked them because their behaviour was disruptive to our gameplay and their attitude was pretty selfish. As a tank main I'll always try to make the run as pleasent as possible for everyone and that does include not to hold two people (+myself) back for the sake of one person)

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

I've made some alts on the aether data center, and to be honest, I found more friendly players with more patience compared to the primal data center.

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Unfortunately I've seen it on the aether data center as well. I am often the lone person who will go and help someone who has stated that they need upgrades while the other two just stand on the passage. I've been thanked for it multiple times and have been told they had not been able to upgrade for 3 or 4 runs from groups ignoring them when they asked to do silver chests. It's a tricky situation, since it involves desires on both sides. I would err on the side that outright ignoring the requests of your partymates may be able to be construed as harassment and certainly is hindering your progress on your weapon.

Plus they're not gaining anything. You can easily complete 51-60 doing a silver chest run in about 15 to 20 minutes so long as everyone participates.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

It's a tricky situation, since it involves desires on both sides. I would err on the side that outright ignoring the requests of your partymates may be able to be construed as harassment and certainly is hindering your progress on your weapon.

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"Ignoring the request" and stating "Sorry, but the majority here would prefer not to" are two different pair of shoes though - I totally agree with you that its a tricky situation, but as long as those people dont queue for the content with the only intend to screw people over by "denying" them silver chests, I wouldnt consider it harrassment but simply a disagreement. It does comes down to intention a bit, but wanting to speed run because its on your intrest to get your rewards faster doesnt equals harrassing someone who wants to explore the whole dungeon. It is tricky and delicate to understand - which is why I dont think we need stricter rules, because it boils down to indivuals having different intrests and I dont think it should be up to SE to choose which one is the "right" one when they offered both in the first place.

Both parties are ignoring the requests of the other here - "Please look for silver chests" vs. "Please proceed with the run". Both are hindering the progression of the other one - and neither is doing it with ill intentions, they're all just trying to achieve their goals. That those arent mutual is unfortunate, but not wrong or in need of punishment.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

You're making it sound like speed runners are not picking up any silver chest at all. While in fact they do pick them if it was close by (Same room as key/portal or one they have just cleared from mobs).

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I like to get my weekly scripture with PotD so I run it a lot. The vast majority of speedrunners I've experienced ignore all chests. I've seen some of them yell at people for opening them when they said they needed silvers rather than running past like they did. I'm 99/99 and I will always go with the person who needs upgrades. I find it incredibly selfish of the other two to either stand on the passage when they know someone needs upgrades or to go so far as to yell at them for trying to get them. I also see plenty of people in 51-60 with white weapons or who kick off the newbie message. So speedrunners are hurting the progress of new people or people not as far along. Or even just those who have reset and are getting another weapon.

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

as far as i see it , OP just asked for something to remove PvE toxicity . the PvP chat thing was just an example? or im wrong ? ^^

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That is correct, and the toxicity is greatly showing in this thread. People keep saying 3>1 well you are being toxic to new people and hindering progress to someone because some people want to harass by majority and that is wrong to do. you are breaking rule 3.2 in thissense and I would like PvE toxicity addressed since SE is trying to address it in PvP

So for the people trying to tell me speedrun is the norm, what if groups of people just want to fail runs? it is 7>8 that case but that is harassment too.

If you want to speed run, PF, you should not expect speedruns though the DF. same for farming umrbite in the great gubal library. The community does not make the rues on what harassment is, SE does.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Unfortunately I've seen it on the aether data center as well. I am often the lone person who will go and help someone who has stated that they need upgrades while the other two just stand on the passage. I've been thanked for it multiple times and have been told they had not been able to upgrade for 3 or 4 runs from groups ignoring them when they asked to do silver chests. It's a tricky situation, since it involves desires on both sides. I would err on the side that outright ignoring the requests of your partymates may be able to be construed as harassment and certainly is hindering your progress on your weapon.

Plus they're not gaining anything. You can easily complete 51-60 doing a silver chest run in about 15 to 20 minutes so long as everyone participates.

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exactly, wanting to ruin someone's experience just because people want to harass others over saving 5 minutes is wrong. Majorly is not always right. DF is not for speedrunners to harass people. I am shocked people are trying to defend toxicity by saying "najoroty rules" that is funny to me.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

I feel you. I do. But, you don't get to decide what the norm is. The community sets it, and the community has spoken. Speedrunners are the norm, so if you want to farm chests, set up a PF.

Just like if you wanted to watch all the cutscenes in Castrum. The community norm in DF is to skip, so set up a PF if you want to go against the grain.

It's not griefing just because you are the outlier.

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Based on my experience, with two Kinna weapons, and having the mount and minions from clearing the 50/100 floors, we're having a problem.

Most of the time, random parties I get want to do chests. So based on majority, speedrun is NOT the DF rule. When I am in Quarrymill you know what I hear for party recruitment? 100% of the time, speedrun party. Because DF wasn't for speedrun, and a party had to be made.

And either way, this does not mean players are allowed to harass/grief because of it. If you were in Castrum, would you refuse to participate if one person in party watched a cutscene? Because people certain refuse to participate or try to wipe the group in palace if they want a speedrun, but don't get it. I literally got yelled at by someone for not doing 41-50 when that was the top floor in 2 minutes. TWO MINUTES!

So right back, make your own PF if you want to speedrun. People already are. Nobody is for chest farming.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

That is correct, and the toxicity is greatly showing in this thread. People keep saying 3>1 well you are being toxic to new people and hindering progress to someone because some people want to harass by majority and that is wrong to do. you are breaking rule 3.2 in this

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You need new example material if PVP chat restriction is not the agenda you're trying to push. You also need a new word. Toxic is getting old and it's bucket is leaking water.


Also, 3>1.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

That is correct, and the toxicity is greatly showing in this thread. People keep saying 3>1 well you are being toxic to new people and hindering progress to someone because some people want to harass by majority and that is wrong to do. you are breaking rule 3.2 in this

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No, its not... *sigh*

It is not harrassment to not share the goal of another person and tell them that in a polite manner. It is not toxic to say "See, we are four people - three of us would like to do this, you're the only one who wants to do that - we're sorry but for this group there is more intrest to do 'this'"
Not getting what you want isnt harrassement or you being misstreated - why cant you see that?
Why do you still believe that the intrests of a new person are so much more important than those of three other people? Those arent NPCs, you know? And by constantly accussing them of harrassment and violation of the ToS you're showing a pretty toxic attitude yourself.
You're not getting something your way doesnt mean someone is breaking the law or being a bad person - its just that person saying "I have my own intrests and I dont share yours - but my reason to be here is still as valid as yours."

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Originally Posted by Zigabar

You need new example material if PVP chat restriction is not the agenda you're trying to push. You also need a new word. Toxic is getting old and it's bucket is leaking water.


Also, 3>1.

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Using Shadewalker on the party and pulling as much as you can because someone went for chests.

Is that a better example?

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

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My anecdotal experience is different than yours. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Using Shadewalker on the party and pulling as much as you can because someone went for chests.

Is that a better example?

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As someone who is currently farming POTD with DF a lot, that happens so little (I haven't seen it at all), that it's a really bad example. Try again.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Using Shadewalker on the party and pulling as much as you can because someone went for chests.

Is that a better example?

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That is not what happend though - from what OP told us all that happend was a person sitting at the lamp saying "No, I wont help you get your chests"
We havent been talking about people intionally and activley ruin the dungeon by using griefing tactics like that because they didnt got what they wanted. We're talking about people saying "We rather proceed with the dungeon instead of looking for chests"

I can easly turn your example around: A person who wants chests and insisted that the others help them can easly hold the whole group hostage by refusing to step into the lamp. So hows that? The Chest-wanting-person sitting right next to the lamp claiming they wont move an inch until everyone goes and looks for their chests - is that okay in your book?

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Originally Posted by Zigabar

As someone who is currently farming POTD with DF a lot, that happens so little (I haven't seen it at all), that it's a really bad example. Try again.

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Intentionally refusing to attack in order to extend how long it takes, because people wanted chests.

Intentionally setting off traps to try and damage the party's chance, because people wanted chests.

Wasting any Pomander obtained because someone wanted chests. No. Seriously. Why throw 3 Intuitions because I wanted the silver in the room next over?

Somewhat hits an earlier example, but intentionally not killing mimics to try and spread pox in a party with no healers. Extra annoying when they throw the purity too.

Actual verbal harassment. Even as far as to take place outside of palace if they're on your server.

All of those have happened to me, because I wanted to get a silver chest. I farmed it a lot too, enough for my fc to question my sanity. Maybe your experience is different. I'm stating what has happened to me. I am stating examples because for whatever reason, people are saying the harassment is okay because in those parties, there was a majority.

But hey! At least I learned you can't remove shadewalker from Palace. That's good right?

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Originally Posted by Vidu

That is not what happend though - from what OP told us all that happend was a person sitting at the lamp saying "No, I wont help you get your chests"
We havent been talking about people intionally and activley ruin the dungeon by using griefing tactics like that because they didnt got what they wanted. We're talking about people saying "We rather proceed with the dungeon instead of looking for chests"

I can easly turn your example around: A person who wants chests and insisted that the others help them can easly hold the whole group hostage by refusing to step into the lamp. So hows that? The Chest-wanting-person sitting right next to the lamp claiming they wont move an inch until everyone goes and looks for their chests - is that okay in your book?

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No, no it's not. I've kicked people for that as well.

I go into the room, see if there's a silver, and if there's none I leave. I only mention this because, outside of just that, there's other ones. Also, since you mentioned it at the earlier posts, I have not ran into one person who was nice when wanting a speed run. I get some people want a speed run. There isn't a need to harass people that don't, some of which even go as far as outside of the palace if you're on the same server. Maybe if they were nice, there'd be an agreement, but most are harassing, at least from my experience.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Most of the time, random parties I get want to do chests. So based on majority, speedrun is NOT the DF rule. When I am in Quarrymill you know what I hear for party recruitment? 100% of the time, speedrun party. Because DF wasn't for speedrun, and a party had to be made.

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Even if 75% of participants are for speed runs, that's still an average of 1 non-speed runner per group, which is all it takes to keep it from being a speed run unless the other three are willing to kick over it, which does not seem to be the case most of the time. That people are making groups to guarantee they get what they want doesn't mean much other than it's very easy to turn a speed run into anything but.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

That is not what happend though - from what OP told us all that happend was a person sitting at the lamp saying "No, I wont help you get your chests"We havent been talking about people intionally and activley ruin the dungeon by using griefing tactics like that because they didnt got what they wanted. We're talking about people saying "We rather proceed with the dungeon instead of looking for chests"

I can easly turn your example around: A person who wants chests and insisted that the others help them can easly hold the whole group hostage by refusing to step into the lamp. So hows that? The Chest-wanting-person sitting right next to the lamp claiming they wont move an inch until everyone goes and looks for their chests - is that okay in your book?

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I did, my friend got MPKed/ sabotage fail from kicking out a speedrunner who was harassing her and also doing the "I am just going to afk here" so the second person that wanted speed run sabotaged the run and mpked the 2 that wanted chests. I guess speedrunning is so important they waist more time greifing then what a speed run aims to save, because that makes sense>???

Keep in mind I am talking about several different runs of speedrun harassment, not just 1 or 2 cases.

A lot of people are also assuming 3 v1 cases and I do not know why, what about 2 v 2 cases?
3>1 if the 1 is a speedrunner, 1 >3 if the one is wants chests, you can't majority harass someone for not speedrunning, that is not right on them. You need all 4 to agree to speedrun to speed run in DF, you can't grief people's progress because you want to save 5 minutes, that is insanely selfish.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

IBetter examples

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What you're describing I would actually consider harrassment and very childish behaviour - however if the majority wants to progress and not look for chests and expresses that desire in a civilised manner ("Please come to the lamp, we would like to go on") it isnt harrassment since no on in PotD has to go out of their way to get chests for you. By running off alone why three other people are waiting at the teleporter, you're activley holding those three people back, thats not okay either.

The simple conflict of intrest that might present itself in PotD doesnt make one side the bad guys and the other one the holy saints - no one is "right" or "wrong" in their desire how to tackle this content. How that desire is expressed is relevant however. Coming to a mutual agreement is relevant - and yes, that agreement can be "The majority would like to do it this way, please follow".
People throwing a tantrum - on either side, wether they want chests or not - are in the wrong and if someone actually resorts to harrassing and griefing you should report them.
But, again: Simply saying "No, three of us dont want to go after silver chests, so we'll be heading straight for the next floor" is neither harrassment nor griefing.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

A lot of people are also assuming 3 v1 cases and I do not know why, what about 2 v 2 cases?
3>1 if the 1 is a speedrunner, 1 >3 if the one is wants chests, you can't majority harass someone for not speedrunning, that is not right on them. You need all 4 to agree to speedrun to speed run in DF, you can't grief people's progress because you want to save 5 minutes, that is insanely selfish.

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And why is it that someone who doesnt want to explore the whole floor has to go out of their way?
Person A&C want chests. Person B&D wants exp (and would therefor like to proceed faster). By your logic everyone has to go after chests now (they even have to go after chests if only Person A wants them), but why?
My personal proposal would always be a compromisse - maybe something like "We will be looking for chests on the first 5 floors and skip right to the lamp on the last 5" - how does that sound to you?
The real solution here is always to find a way that works for the majority of the group and benefits the most of the present people.
If you have one person (from either side btw!) that is extremly uncooperative and resorts to harrassing and active griefing: remove and report them.
Try to reach an agreement with your group - but be willing to go out of your own way aswell. Dont go into DF and expect everyone to obey to your rules and goals.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

I am stating examples because for whatever reason, people are saying the harassment is okay because in those parties, there was a majority.

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Harassment is always bad. What we're saying is that 3 people wanting to get on with a floor instead of exploring everything isn't harassment.

Actual harassment is not part of this conversation.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

What you're describing I would actually consider harrassment and very childish behaviour - however if the majority wants to progress and not look for chests and expresses that desire in a civilised manner ("Please come to the lamp, we would like to go on") it isnt harrassment since no on in PotD has to go out of their way to get chests for you. By running off alone why three other people are waiting at the teleporter, you're activley holding those three people back, thats not okay either.

The simple conflict of intrest that might present itself in PotD doesnt make one side the bad guys and the other one the holy saints - no one is "right" or "wrong" in their desire how to tackle this content. How that desire is expressed is relevant however. Coming to a mutual agreement is relevant - and yes, that agreement can be "The majority would like to do it this way, please follow".
People throwing a tantrum - on either side, wether they want chests or not - are in the wrong and if someone actually resorts to harrassing and griefing you should report them.
But, again: Simply saying "No, three of us dont want to go after silver chests, so we'll be heading straight for the next floor" is neither harrassment nor griefing.

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So if a member wants chests, and the other three go, "We want a speedrun. Get in the circle or we kick," you're saying that's fine. Alright. But if I go, "I want chests. I'm just going to peek into rooms since I need the upgrades," it's not okay, because I hold 3 people hostage. To start, it'd go much faster to get the chests. In fact, when I DO make a party for chest farming, they're the fastest runs I have. Isn't that funny? When people actually do stuff instead of standing around throwing a fit in party chat, things get done. Who knew?

And as I stated before, none have been nice. I've been harassed both in and out of palace for going to get a chest. And if chat's anything to go by, I've been reported for getting chests. It is childish to do completely nothing because someone didn't agree with you on it, therefor making the run take longer no matter what.

Seriously, what would you rather do. Spend 2 minutes getting the guy's chest, or 10 waiting on him? Because people would rather say nasty stuff.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Harassment is always bad. What we're saying is that 3 people wanting to get on with a floor instead of exploring everything isn't harassment.

Actual harassment is not part of this conversation.

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I'm saying people saying nasty stuff in the chat because someone wanted chests is bad. If it irritates you so badly, you can kick without a word and say different playstyles. People don't have to call other's things that can get them punched in the face for over it.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

What you're describing I would actually consider harrassment and very childish behaviour - however if the majority wants to progress and not look for chests and expresses that desire in a civilised manner ("Please come to the lamp, we would like to go on") it isnt harrassment since no on in PotD has to go out of their way to get chests for you. By running off alone why three other people are waiting at the teleporter, you're activley holding those three people back, thats not okay either.
The simple conflict of intrest that might present itself in PotD doesnt make one side the bad guys and the other one the holy saints - no one is "right" or "wrong" in their desire how to tackle this content. How that desire is expressed is relevant however. Coming to a mutual agreement is relevant - and yes, that agreement can be "The majority would like to do it this way, please follow".
People throwing a tantrum - on either side, wether they want chests or not - are in the wrong and if someone actually resorts to harrassing and griefing you should report them.
But, again: Simply saying "No, three of us dont want to go after silver chests, so we'll be heading straight for the next floor" is neither harrassment nor griefing.

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It is harassment and greifing because it hinders progress of the person that needs the silvers. Greifing over 5 minutes of saved time is not right, esp when in the DF, if you want to speed run, use PF!!! It also enters even more harassment when you start verbally abusing people and MPK over it. So now you are wasting more time greifing then what you aim to save over speedrunning, why? Making up excuses to defend toxicity because you think 5 minutes of time is more valuable then someone's progress. That is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

That is correct, and the toxicity is greatly showing in this thread.

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I'm sorry but your opinion has been heavily biased from the start based on your own personal needs of POTD. You are dictating that need as if its set in stone how everyone should run the content.

Even more so when you stated the only objective in POTD is:

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

it is there to give people an alternative to get a weapon, the EXP is supposed to be just a side bonus, not greif people out of getting silvers.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

So if a member wants chests, and the other three go, "We want a speedrun. Get in the circle or we kick," you're saying that's fine. Alright. But if I go, "I want chests. I'm just going to peek into rooms since I need the upgrades," it's not okay, because I hold 3 people hostage.

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Yes, if three people are saying "Please get over here, we want to progress" and you go off because your own personal progression is more important to you than the goals/needs/intrests of the group you are hindering their progression. It doesnt matter if it takes 2, 5, 10 or 30 minutes. In that very moment you are the one person being uncooperative.
Saying "It only takes two minutes to go over there and get the chest to be over with it" is asking the other people to give up on their intrest to proceed imidiatly - it takes you zero time to get in the circle and proceed with them, but that conflicts your intrest. See the problem? Its not about whos right or wrong because there is no right or wrong way to do this...

Again, I'm, personally am all for finding a mutual agreement or making a compromissive, but that requires both parties to see that they're not initially having morale high ground just because of their goal.
Getting chests is okay.
Not getting chests is okay too.
And its up to the people present to decide in a civilised manner what to do - and that might require both parts to sacrifice something.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

So if a member wants chests, and the other three go, "We want a speedrun. Get in the circle or we kick," you're saying that's fine. Alright. But if I go, "I want chests. I'm just going to peek into rooms since I need the upgrades," it's not okay, because I hold 3 people hostage.

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Let's start with a simple premise: each player's experience and desire is equally important. Sound good? Then, this right here is true, because when everyone is equal, the fairest thing to do is go by majority.

One person's desire for chests is valuable. So is another's desire for a faster clear. No one is more important than the other. So, majority rules, whatever way it swings.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

It is harassment and greifing because it hinders progress of the person that needs the silvers. Greifing over 5 minutes of saved time is not right, esp when in the DF, if you want to speed run, use PF!!! It also enters even more harassment when you start verbally abusing people and MPK over it. So now you are wasting more time greifing then what you aim to save over speedrunning, why? Making up excuses to defend toxicity because you think 5 minutes of time is more valuable then someone's progress. That is wrong.

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You could make the same argument about skipping optional trash in dungeons when someone is still leveling their character. It's not harassment to want to progress. It's not griefing to want to progress. My desire is just as important as yours in a group. Equally important, in fact.

Say it with me now: It's harassment to HARASS someone over a difference in playstyle. It's not harassment to HAVE a difference in playstyle. It's griefing to GRIEF someone over a difference in playstyle. It's not griefing to HAVE a difference in playstyle.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

You could make the same argument about skipping optional trash in dungeons when someone is still leveling their character. It's not harassment to want to progress. It's not griefing to want to progress. My desire is just as important as yours in a group. Equally important, in fact.Say it with me now: It's harassment to HARASS someone over a difference in playstyle. It's not harassment to HAVE a difference in playstyle. It's griefing to GRIEF someone over a difference in playstyle. It's not griefing to HAVE a difference in playstyle.

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No it is not, you explain the clear bonus and entering again is more exp, or explaining you get better exp doing other things when you do the daily. It is not greifing someone's progress. It is also a bigger difference then PotD "speed running" speedrunners greifing take more time to clear it then if they would just help with chests. The point you are missing is this is not a difference of play style, it is PREVENTING SOMEONE'S PROGRESS, THAT IS GREFING AND HARASSMENT! Comparing it to exp gain is a joke, you can get exp gain off anything, you can't get silvers from another source, try to solo floor 51 on 20/20, i dare you.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Yes, if three people are saying "Please get over here, we want to progress" and you go off because your own personal progression is more important to you than the goals/needs/intrests of the group you are hindering their progression. It doesnt matter if it takes 2, 5, 10 or 30 minutes. In that very moment you are the one person being uncooperative.
Saying "It only takes two minutes to go over there and get the chest to be over with it" is asking the other people to give up on their intrest to proceed imidiatly - it takes you zero time to get in the circle and proceed with them, but that conflicts your intrest. See the problem? Its not about whos right or wrong because there is no right or wrong way to do this...

Again, I'm, personally am all for finding a mutual agreement or making a compromissive, but that requires both parties to see that they're not initially having morale high ground just because of their goal.
Getting chests is okay.
Not getting chests is okay too.
And its up to the people present to decide in a civilised manner what to do - and that might require both parts to sacrifice something.

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The issue is that does not happen. What ends up happening is that speedrunners greif the people that want chests. They will not help at all, they want to sit afk for not doing what they want, they MPK, they intentionally fail runs. The speedrunners make no effort in compromise, that is what I been trying to explain all this time with the toxic problem.

Thal's balls, how the hell is this still going?

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

The issue is that does not happen. What ends up happening is that speedrunners greif the people that want chests. They will not help at all, they want to sit afk for not doing what they want, they MPK, they intentionally fail runs. The speedrunners make no effort in compromise, that is what I been trying to explain all this time with the toxic problem.

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So, let me ask you this: Assuming we would end up in a run - you and your friend wanting chests; me and my friend wanting only the exp (and therefor faster progression by not going fo chests) - and I propose that we go and explore and look for chests for the first 5 floors but proceed straight through the teleport for the last 5 floors - would that be accepted by you and your friend? Would you even think of proposing this yourself? Would you be willing to sacrifice part of your goal for my sake? Or are you only asking that of me?

Maybe we kept missing each others points for the major part of this discussion but the main impression I had so far of you is a that of a person who isnt willing to compromisse either and instead sitting there, repeating over and over again that their way of playing is the only correct way - and thats an attitude that doesnt sit right with me, because its simply not true. So far you dont seem any better to me than a speedrunner who refuses to help - because you've made it very clear that you're not willing to go out of your way for the sake of someone who wants to play different since you despise that playstyle so much.

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Originally Posted by Atlaworks

Thal's balls, how the hell is this still going?

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(I'm willing to take the blame since I'm bored and stubborn again)

Please stop calling toxicity anything you disagree with.

I'm right, you're wrong and your attitude is toxic because it's different than mine. That's essentially what this thread boils down to. :rolleyes:

I don't know why I just spent that much of my life reading this whole thread.

OP's opinions and the "toxic" (people making valid points in a non-aggressive, helpful manner) folks opinions aren't ever going to match up. Kinda like how OP is upset that speedrunners wanna speedrun and chest people wanna chest. OP; people aren't toxic because they want to play their way. POTD didn't just magically break and never work again because they said "nothnx". It'll still work for you, you can go again. Try it, I promise it'll let you do another 10 floors and find chests =w =

(Also in the grand scheme of your life OP, this is not worth being upset over. Be Elsa; let it go.)

"PvE is more toxic than PvP" hahahahaha if only you truly knew ;P

Dear OP

Harassment

You use that word but I do not think you know what it means.

If you're using the ToS disruptive clause that someone in potd is harassing you by means of not helping you go look for chests, then by equal reverse measure, it holds true for them.

As for what was intended: it was never set in stone. Perhaps you should take that up with the devs and suggest floors can only be accessible after collecting X amount of chests. Its not an idea that would sit still with some of the playerbase (myself included) but its a far stronger argument than trying to argue a playstyle in potd is superior to another.

OP, you wont get a good answer off this people, cause guess what? 90% of the people here are actually "speed runners, pro players elitist maximum" AKA noob players with big dreams, so yeah, toxic community is toxic~

They support the idea of "If im 99/99 then you should play my way, not yours"

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Originally Posted by Keikun

OP, you wont get a good answer off this people, cause guess what? 90% of the people here are actually "speed runners, pro players elitist maximum" AKA noob players with big dreams, so yeah, toxic community is toxic~

They support the idea of "If im 99/99 then you should play my way, not yours"

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Who hurt you?

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Originally Posted by Keikun

OP, you wont get a good answer off this people, cause guess what? 90% of the people here are actually "speed runners, pro players elitist maximum" AKA noob players with big dreams, so yeah, toxic community is toxic~

They support the idea of "If im 99/99 then you should play my way, not yours"

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So OP with being "we should play my way, not yours!" is less toxic and any better?

I'm 99/99 and currently leveling a ninja, if u want to explore the whole map while the teleport is open, go ahead, i just won't go unless your dying. There's just no point in exploring every section of the map when they make it so easy to max out, let alone be 90/90 for the weapons.


I always wait at the teleport once its open while people explore the map, i never saw any of them complain to me. When ever i see topic like these, there must of been something else in there that they don't tell. Cause i personally never saw any potd drama about getting chest or speedrunning.

I swear, I see "toxic" thrown around so much on these forums that I have to double-check that I didn't get redirected to a Troma Films fansite.