I think circumventing combat by using CC is a great way to use CC. It adds a bit more variety and thought towards trash rather than the current.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
That said, I agree I would also like to see more CC as you mentioned in your second paragraph.
What I would not like to see is CC nerfed, because people are using it.
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10-22-2016, 01:47 PMKaurie
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10-22-2016, 02:01 PMAvenger
Regarding manaward and manawall - I use them all the time on BLM - makes me much less dead and reduces need to move. I think you used to be able to block Titan's landslide (and other nasty attacks in various battles) with manawall until it was nerfed. ;-(
Regarding scathe - cast it all the time while moving if I don't have a thunder or fire proc; any instacast is good for movement or as a finishing move.
I'd like to hear from BLMs who use Freeze on a regular basis though. I mainly use it for visual effect. -
10-22-2016, 02:49 PMPonderaI use Freeze for the occasional blast of AoE, but also to lock down a stray add or two that got away from the tank. It doesn't happen AS much anymore, but there are times where a certain open world monster has A LOT more HP than I first thought, things have gone south, and binding it in place for a few seconds is vital to my plans of staying alive. IMHO, the creative ways one uses those "unused and ineffective actions" is what separates okay players from great players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
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10-22-2016, 03:32 PMShurrikhanMy only point was that they don't need to remove abilities to cut down on button bloat, as long as they're willing to provide alternative hotbar setups. Ideally, we should be able to customize all that for ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrini
Probably my biggest fear about 4.0 is the removal of any form of versatility via what might be considered "cross-role". I've lost interest in multiple MMOs over that exact line of redevelopment, and their subscription numbers and forums would indicate I'm not in the minority there. I'd much rather go back and find a way to make these so-called useless (non-specific-content, i.e. raid, -optimal) skills creatively viable. -
10-22-2016, 04:26 PMDuelleTrash mobs are a pacing mechanism to dungeon progress, not something you should aim to skip just because you don't want to fight them. This isn't like trying to edge around a pack of mobs, as your chances of success are roughly 50-50 (this is easily proven in normal Hullbreaker Isle).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
What you're suggesting puts way too much power in the hands of classes with CC. And again, being able to sleep a room's worth of mobs to rush the boss is not balanced and should definitely not be rewarded. -
10-22-2016, 04:30 PMAlistaireWhy not give it pacification? That'd be more useful and make more sense. You're not really stuck after getting hit like that, just dazed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardes
And apparently in 1.0 it had a bonus hitting from the front, which also makese sense and would be nice to have back. -
10-22-2016, 04:36 PMShurrikhanOther situations could make it feel both balancing and rewarding, however. For instance, if friendly fire was more of a thing for enemy mobs, you could CC as to get mobs to arrive in time for a boss attack that would damage them, rather than locking them out completely. They're still a threat; you just have a new, creative, and speedier (although riskier) way to deal with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
I'd still take the lock-out option over nothing, though. At worst, you can give bonus whatever per-mob or at the end of the run based on clear rate, as long as those rewards have a different priority than would be the point of a CC speedrun.
The original Haymaker was just a really strong attack, while Jarring Blow provided a stun. The frontal bonus was on Concussive Blow, added with all other positionals in 1.18, the mass Yoshida revision to the combat system, as the second part of Pugilist's primary combo, and it inflicted Blind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistaire
I'd agree though that Pacification would make a lot of sense, but at the same time that could actually increase damage done against you, as all Pacification really does is remove specials, the majority of which are dodgeable and prevent auto-attacks during their cast. A slow is generally more effective, even if its effects aren't very visual. Ideally, I'd like it to take up a new CC type, Daze, which would function as a package of lesser debuffs, including an effect on turning speed. That said, that still wouldn't give it any more raid usage, except potentially to help the tank dodge tracking cleaves. -
10-22-2016, 04:51 PMJetstream_Fox
I'm more concerned about how the new battle system is going to play, not so much what skills I lose. A lot of classes need to be reworked and a lot of skills need to go through an reexamination, BRD, SMN, SCH, are 3 that really ring a bell off the top of my head as classes that need a complete overhaul. BRD is a wreck because of WM and SE has no idea what to do with the class, SMN has always felt out of place and it's summon aspect is neglected, and SCH also falls into the category of feeling like it was intended to be something else.
It almost sounds like they want to forgo the trinity, which if that's a case it would make sense for all the classes to be reworked like they're saying. But if not, the useless skills are really due to the fact SE hasn't built content around all the skills a class has, like I can't even say the last time I've used shadowbind because there isn't real any content that requires BRD to bind target, and likely the group has a stun which beats out bind. If the battle system isn't dropping the trinity, wouldn't it be more logical for them to redesign skills before they determine what is truly useless? -
10-22-2016, 05:57 PMAlistaireWould honestly be better for them to make good use of existing debuffs first, though I see your point about pacification. The problem with others is if you give 1 job access to a new good one it becomes "in demand" which Yoshi's stated he's against. They could give it paralyze, accuracy down, or several other mob-only (or potion only for players) debuff, but then like candy, you have to bring some for everyone in the class if you're going to bring it at all. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
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10-22-2016, 06:03 PMShurrikhanJust depends on how potent the effect actually is. And then there's always new ways of scaling debuffs, so they're not always a flat percentage that may well be pathetic on insignificant mobs (and therefore always outvalued by pure dps) while mandatory against stronger ones, such as by creating a means of 'conditional damage' or 'AP/SP-modified potency'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistaire
Something being unique doesn't make it required; something being uniquely powerful does. And that's what balance is for. -
10-22-2016, 06:17 PMADVSS
there is no effect outside of paralyze praise the paralyze god which only bosses and enemies are allowed to have a use
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10-22-2016, 06:28 PMSaitoHikari
I'm way, WAY more intrigued by what they intend to do with the cross class system. They outright stated that they're going to make cross class skills role-based now, but at the same time, I imagine them addressing the complaint of being absolutely required to level other classes to a certain point in order to even touch endgame in the eyes of the community. Especially as a non-PLD tank.
I have a feeling they're going to axe leveling other classes for cross class skills entirely (and eventually eliminate the need to level other classes to obtain your job stones), instead automatically giving the skills to you once you hit certain levels as any class within your role. Sort of like this healer mock-up idea...
Healer cross-classes: Conjurer/White Mage/Scholar/Astrologian
- Lv. 5: Protect
- Lv. 10: Cleric Stance
- Lv. 15: Virus
- Lv. 25: Stoneskin
- Lv. 35: Swiftcast
- Lv. 45: Surecast
Aero, Physick, Cure, and Blizzard II would no longer be cross-classable among the Healer jobs. I thought about whether or not Stoneskin should remain a cross-class skill as well (since there's no denying that WHMs have identity issues right now and there is no cross-class skill originating from them that they can actually use better than the other two healers borrowing them right now), but that leads to another point... For most cross class skills that originated from a class, that class should get a trait that allows them to use said skill better than the other classes (if one doesn't already exist, like with Supervirus). Protect and Cleric Stance would be exceptions though, due to how absolutely vital both are (and that I've no idea how to trait them for WHMs that don't automatically rocket them into Scholar-tier broken level).
For Stoneskin, White Mages should either get to regain their Graniteskin trait, or they get to learn Stoneskin II earlier (I'd say at the level that Stoneskin is currently learned at), AND the swift stoneskin trait gets replaced by a new trait that lets them cast Stoneskin II mid-battle.
Likewise, Black Mages (though not a healer, still serves as a good example here) could get a trait that lowers their own Swiftcast cooldown to 40 seconds, in exchange for that skill now being cross-classed across all casters.
For a non-caster example, Paladin Provoke could be traited to inflict a 10 second debuff that increases the target's chance of being affected by a critical hit by 10% for 15 seconds (though it'd only work if the Paladin is not already at the top of the list). -
10-22-2016, 07:06 PMAlistaireAnd people doing lv 50 content that carry potent paralyze potions.Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVSS
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10-22-2016, 07:24 PMKitelessHonestly, I wouldn't mind if they phased out the pet entirely, and focused on giving flashy summon invocations like Deathflare. As things stand, the current state of SMN pets just has them acting as a ball and chain for an extended set of skills, as opposed to being actually interesting as pets. Titan Egi is the most interesting and engaging of the bunch, but isn't something that should actually end up seeing play in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox
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10-22-2016, 07:44 PMRyuSaarvaI used it always as a finisher and started to move forward, it also allows you to sometimes solo kill bosses if everyone has died.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
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10-22-2016, 09:37 PMAlistaireYou could design around removing it though. Just change enough of thunder 1's initial potency into damage on hit and make it instant cast, and then it'd be a replacement for scathe.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuSaarva
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10-22-2016, 10:14 PMMagiusNecrosWrong. Against Gorgimera you can shut down adds and just burn the boss(just one example mind you), tank can't hold hate on everything? Sleep em. But oh no it's better to just Fire 2 and hope for the best. I mean it'll just mean a faster clear if you wipe and have the tank pull accordingly? Right? Right!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
The only reason they made enemies immune to status in endgame dungeons is to stop BLM speed runs which is kinda sad. "Them BLM's exploiting that there sleep spell! Make it worthless in endgame and move it to that dere dead ass PvP". -
10-23-2016, 12:11 AMPonderaI find it very amusing that the pro-pruning crowd demands the removal of certain "useless" abilities to clear up space on the hot bar and make the game "simpler and easier to play" but would turn right around and demand greater skill from everyone by avoiding all AoEs and tanks holding hate on everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
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10-23-2016, 01:43 AMLambdafishThis worries me actually. As a PLD, does that mean that I lose Stoneskin and protect? To me, these skills are part of what makes PLD unique, as a tank that in the OT position (mostly) is able to assist healers during rough patches, as well as apply protect to recently raised party members, allowing healers to heal/raise without wasting time and MP. But of course, PLD is a tank, not a healer, so this uniqueness will likely get taken away. I have done this in raid environments and it has been extremely useful, please do not take these tools away (the other tanks have nothing useful to add to PLD other than foresight and mercy stroke).Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
My entire mentality when playing PLD is different to playing WAR. For WAR, my primary objective is to beat on the boss, however as a PLD, I am very spatially aware, dealing less damage on the boss, but keeping an eye on other party members, being aware of when healers struggle, and do what I can to assist with the toolkit that I have, which is how PLD should be, and I don't want to be turned into a WAR that has smaller hits but bigger shields. -
10-23-2016, 02:09 AMSynestraCC skills like Savage Blade and Skull Sunder are propably going to get removed as those are 100% useless to even have as an CC option.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhaneX
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10-23-2016, 02:19 AMSaitoHikariYeah, unfortunately if the devs ever do that, I see PLD losing their cross classes from WHM. Either that, or they'll end up getting replacement skills that function in a similar way/at least Protect and Stoneskin will be built right into PLD tree to make up for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
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10-23-2016, 03:00 AMJonnycbad
Feint is actually decent at mid-low levels for when the target isn't immune, because it's pretty potent. To make it more useful at higher levels make it lower the target's evasion or something. Haymaker could be like an FF "Counter" wherein it has a 50% proc chance anytime the MNK receives damage (including from raid-wide AoE) and buff it's potency to 250 and make it an oGCD, additional effect: reduces target's damage by 5% or something.
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10-23-2016, 03:15 AMLambdafishI really hope you are right. The devs need to have a serious think about PLDs job identity, and also work out a way to compensate PLD (as well as DRG) for the skills that they will inevitably lose with this change to the system. As it stands, PLD will lose Provoke, Convalescence, Awareness(?), and potentially Flash (though this will probably just be excempt from the system, and hopefully changed). They are also the only job that will potentially lose an entire cross class job from their list (to be replaced with DRK... hooray for homogenization), healers won't lose BLM skills, as all healers have BLM as a cross class, so the relevant skills will be kept for all healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
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10-23-2016, 03:17 AMtymoraThey could always just easily make the condition to be "Kill all mobs to open doors", instead of making sleep useless...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaer
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10-23-2016, 03:18 AMLoyd64I wouldn't mind having a similar cross class system but with two sections, one with abilities for your role, and one for that job, have like 4 choices for each and be able to select 6, or 3 of each, and have it be a bit more style based, like for a tank, a choice of two buffs, one decreases damage taken for 10 seconds, but reduces damage done, and have another thats opposite, and you can only pick one. Some may like the extra tank cd, while others may like the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
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10-23-2016, 03:24 AMLokierI believe Yoshida reassured that with the changes to cross class abilities certain classes will be given spells they need but don't have, so I'd assume things like provoke, etc, will just automatically be given to tank classes so they don't need to level a pala' to obtain it any more. Since things like provoke are a necessity for dual-tanking, not an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
I think what will happen is they'll take necessity cross-class spells and just give them to classes that need them to function, whilst maybe making new, or rebuilding on current in-game, spells that are optional but not essential. Perhaps in an attempt to eliminate this issue with people levelling one class but not another, and hopefully attempting to lead classes and jobs down the route of "I levelled it because I wanted to, not because I have to" scenario.
A few people have voiced their distaste for being forced to level something they didn't want to level to get along in the game, giving up valuable time they would have liked to have used levelling the class of their choice. Luckily POTD has dealt with this issue somewhat, since you can just unlock your two needed classes in less than maybe seven hours and get back to what you want to do, level the class of your choice. -
10-23-2016, 03:30 AMNezeriusIn that case, people would just AoE everything down, making sleep just as useless in that situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by tymora
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10-23-2016, 03:34 AMLambdafishI read it more as an overhaul to the cross class system itself (granted, this is necessary). My only concern is how this affects PLD/WHM/DRG, arguably the 3 classes in this game that most of the relevant cross class skills come from (perhaps BLM too). These classes will have their skills taken and made into role abilities (it makes more sense to have provoke as a tank ability than creating 3 provokes), however these classes that held all the cross class skills now have less unique skills (arguably this was true anyway, but now they are making it official). This is why my worry for PLD is so valid, the two cross class skills that made it unique (stoneskin and protect) could potentially be straight up taken away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokier
I know we don't have enough information to go on, but on the other hand I need to be reassured that PLD will keep its identity as a support heavy tank. The only reassurance that has been given is that jobs will be given the relevant skills that they need (probably directly talking about WAR/DRK getting the PLD skills that they need, or DPS getting the DRG skills that they need) -
10-23-2016, 04:19 AMAvengerThis - although my hotbar is exploding, I really like the idea and possibility of coming up with creative ways of using or combining various less-popular spells or skills. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pondera
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10-23-2016, 04:31 AMTerriniAlternatively, they could be given to all tanks, and that also takes away PLD's uniqueness. With the most popular cross-class skills getting merged into a general pool, the jobs that provided these skills need to get at the very least passive bonuses to make them more effective or unique than just the general pool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
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10-23-2016, 05:13 AMDzian
There's a lot of useless skills that could be amazing skills with just a small tweak. surecast for example is absolutely useless. but if it was tweaked to allow you to cast the next spell uninterrupted while moving. it'd suddenly be an amazing spell and a great help for many blackmages, surecasting blizzard 4 for example to keep there enochain up even if they have to dodge mechanics.
All crowd control is useless by game design. shadowbind heavy freeze, sleep repose. a blm will never sleep anything instead they'll just fire 2 the whole lot till its dead, nothing hits hard enough to warrant sleeps or any form of crowd control and everything is simply rounded up and aoed down.
then you have skills that are used but totally innefective or not used for there intended purpose. pacifys, stuns, silences etc, the only thing these are ever used for 99% of the time is a small dps increase, so when you find mechanics you could stun you inevitably can't because the boss is immune because everyones been spamming stuns for the small dps boost.
silence is the same. think I can name 2 things of hand that silence has ever been usefull for. high voltage in very early coil days and requelling mist in the forgall fight in weeping city. again blunt arrow is only ever used as a dps increase 99% of the time.
then you have situations like paladins. where a good portion of its toolkit is basically useless in a remotely decent group. cover is one example, divine veil also. it's a pretty strong shield admittedly but it isn't really needed or usefull that often. if you pass a dps check before big aoe damage that damage is trivial. and divine veil is a joke, if you fail the dps check you wipe regardless of how many shields you can throw up.
so many skills are made useless simply from the way content is designed -
10-23-2016, 05:58 AMNo2631
Only read the first post. Excellent exercise in building strawmen, but the intent of the devs seems clearly aimed at some skills which see extremely limited and niche use that it's hardly worth justifying having them on a hotbar. Especially because the amount of buttons you can reasonably and comfortably reach is finite.
Tempered Will, for example, is useful in an extremely limited number of fights, and where it is useful it's used as a crutch to prevent dealing with mechanics rather than feeling like an extension of your kit; a PLD can use Tempered Will to negate Sophia EX's tilt mechanic, but it's a lazy escape from doing mechanics and hasn't a lot of use outside that in contemporary content. I tried using it in Gooball Library and was pushed back by the book attack from the first boss, for example; maybe I used it too late but even there circumventing the pushback hardly seems worth having a (pretty long) cooldown skill for.
Monks have Haymaker, which virtually never comes up in any content with a tank (hint: 90% of content), and Dragoons have Feint─the use of which is a loss of DPS in most cases and, off the top of my head, only slightly useful against Garuda Extreme provided you hit a very narrow window of opportunity for a marginal benefit.
These three are skills that have little to no real effect on your raiding experience or even dungeon-conquering experience. Re-assessing these skills may result in them being combined with other skills, or adjusted through traits gained after level 60 to transform them into more useful skills. I think the idea of "re-assess" isn't to outright delete them and pretend they don't exist, but to provide additional support to make these skills useful in more content than they currently are.
EDIT:
Just to point out, but at level 50, a Dunesfolk Lalafell Black Mage could use Thunder 2 instead of Thunder 1 during their Umbral Ice moment. Thunder 2 definitely saw some more use back then, and even now I sometimes manage to squeeze in a Thunder 2 instead of Thunder 1 without losing any uptime.Quote:
Honestly, BLM sucks for combat space in general anyway, if they combined thunder 1 and 2, or thunder 2 and 3 together I could fit Transpose onto my front bar. So I'm all for them removing something from them.
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10-23-2016, 06:43 AMPonderaIn what regard? Most of what I said was emphasizing on how much earlier spells build into later ones, and attempts to remove or simplify such a system are probably going to blow up in the devs' face. Also, I'm not just pulling theories out of thin air. I've seen people writing in and suggesting things like "instead of tanks have a zillion cooldowns, why not just 1 with a short cooldown?". Things that really make me happy that they're not to ones in charge, and also things that exacerbate my already intense paranoia.Quote:
Originally Posted by No2631
But, as I said before, this is mostly just made worse by a lack of specifics. Once Yoshi P and the rest of the FF team start stating more precisely what they have in mind, my worries will either be soothed, or I'll have more concrete stuff to go on. -
10-23-2016, 07:29 AMNezeriusThey specifically showed three abilities that are being considered for removal/adjustment, which were Fists of Wind, Feint and Fracture. With that in mind, jumping straight to the assumption that they're adjusting (or even removing) fundamental abilities is just silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pondera
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10-23-2016, 07:37 AMDuelleYou're looking in the wrong places for uniqueness. What makes PLD different from WAR is that a PLD can mitigate things with the press of a button, and the gameplay revolves around knowing when to press buttons to take less damage. The simplicity of our combos means that yes, it's a lot easier to be aware of the environment and pay attention to other things (which is why I roll my eyes whenever people complain about PLD combos).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambdafish
WAR, on the other hand, is designed to mitigate things through actions. Hence why they have Storm's Path and Inner Beast. The self heals arguably fall into this category as well. They also have to generate a resource to spend on said mitigation (Wrath), whereas PLD does not.
The only way PLD would turn into a WAR would be by nerfing or removing defensive cooldowns and giving PLD a clone of Wrath stacks. Which is not likely to happen. -
10-23-2016, 08:07 AMBourne_EndeavorIn the OP's defense, people held the same belief with WoW's skill consolidation and look how that turned out. Seeing FFXIV borrows plenty of ideas from WoW, the OP's concerns aren't without some merit. Do I think we'll see something like Full Thrust combo become a single button? Hopefully not. That being said, some jobs will have to see some pruning. Even if you take away Piercing Talon, Keen Flurry and Feint, Dragoon still has a massive amount of buttons to its rotation. In fact, I don't even have Feint on my hotbar and still use 27 abilities. As I didn't count the aforementioned two or Elusive Jump since those are all situationally used, if at all, adding an additional five like they did in Heavensward would be cumbersome.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhaneX
What I suspect could happen is combo ability are merged into one button-- with each changing based on proc duration. So True Thrust becomes Vorpal Thrust and then Full Thrust. Blade & Soul does this it, though I'm not entirely certain how I feel about it. While technically three different abilities, you are still pressing only a single button, albeit three times. -
10-23-2016, 08:24 AMPonderaCouldn't have said it better myself. People can say all day long that it was a content drought that brought WoW's declining popularity, but if you look at the sub count graphs, you'll see that subscribers started to drop off LONG before that was an issue, even before Mists of Pandaria was dropped. It was around when Blizzard removed the talent trees, basically slapping everyone who spent hours agonizing over the most efficient spec in the face and laughing at how much time they wasted. I reason that you can have amazing foes all day long with brilliant dungeons, creative enemies and complex mechanics, but what is the point if you can't do anything cool or engaging in that content?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
A lot of combos can already be condensed through the use of macros, a point I've made several times before during this thread. We most certainly don't need devs to hold our hand in this regard, skilled and talented though they may be. They are called expansions for a reason, and if your character that you've spent hundreds of hours on, is made lesser not through any triumph of evil, but because the powers that be have declared a play style that you've come to cherish as "too complicated" for people who aren't going to dodge that AoE no matter how simple the game is for them, no amount of shiny baubles is going to fix that feeling of "used to be able to do that cool thing, but now you can't because reasons"
I'm really hoping my fears are unfounded and Yoshi-P is going to pull out some more gaming wisdom. I'm hoping that when he says "reassessment", he's talking about why Skull Sunder and Savage Blade are cross-class skills. Or why Black Mages have access to a cross class skill that increases damage based on dexterity. I'm hoping that he's looking at Cross class skills and realizing that, with a selection of imperative ones, a selection of okay ones, and a selection of ones that simply don't do anything, people are making the same choices 100% of the time. -
10-23-2016, 08:39 AMAyer2015
Unlike the vast majority on posts on this thread, I’m actually in favor of a far more significant job revamp come 4.0. Time will tell what actually happens.
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10-23-2016, 08:59 AMFelisFeather Feet, not Fist of Wind, if I remember it rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
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10-23-2016, 09:31 AMShurrikhanWhat seems difficult about something like this is that you're then blending two functions, which can then step into the domain of another ability (in this case, Swiftcast). You now have two skills the provide mobility. If you went the way of allowing BLMs to use Surecast to simply stand in a given AoE instead such as by taking reduced AoE damage or their cast's potency absorbing incoming damage during the cast itself, then you essentially have a second Manaward, functionally speaking. To be honest, one of the things that I think could go a long way is to simply allow for dual-casting or blended animations, e.g. being able to use Surecast during another cast (flame gathers around your staff while your hand, otherwise unused, forms the Surecast, Manaward, Manawall, next-spell Swiftcast, etc.). One of the main inhibitors of Surecast right now is the clipping it causes. Keep the animation, but kill the clipping, and its use may well be more attractive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzian
Without that change, or even alongside it, SE will just have to figure out what blends of functions they actually want to assign to n abilities.
Just a quick question: would it be preferably to you that your AoEs hit slightly harder, and your CCs were far more applicable (less effective but still usable against enemies that would otherwise be immune), but most enemies hit substantially harder? Maybe throw some added active defenses, for non-tanks especially, into that mix as not to kill off all melee when a tank isn't present, but at that point you really are more dependent on coordination in order to go whole hog on your enemies. If playing in the current mass-pull style, tanks get to feel a bit more mitigation oriented and healers a bit more healing oriented as a side-effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzian
Similar question: Would you prefer that stuns were balanced in such a way as to be more useful as ways to guarantee positionals, improve uptime of other skills, or reduce (tank) damage taken, etc., than as on-cooldown bonus damage?Quote:
Then you have skills that are used but totally ineffective or not used for their intended purpose. Pacifys, stuns, silences, etc, are ever used for 99% of the time is a small dps increase, so when you find mechanics you could stun you inevitably can't because the boss is immune because everyones been spamming stuns for the small dps boost.
What I'd say you're looking at are flaw-specific outputs, which can be fine (albeit perhaps a bit overpowered in new settings as sort of a safety mechanics-learning job) if their relative cost onto the rest of the toolkit is low. Granted, I don't think the Paladin toolkit is actually limited to emergencies and team mistakes. Divine Veil is still a very real output even outside of emergencies; I'd argue its best uses are regularly scheduled, as to negate the need for a particular healer AoE, and it can save the raid from certain AoEs, such as all Almost Holy casts going off at once within minimal or no other shielding. Cover itself would seem useful only when a target who would otherwise die is marked for or in a zone for incoming physical damage—extremely niche—but is actually used primarily to cheese mechanics, such as on T13's Ahk Morn, A5, etc., as a strategy-bending gimmick. So they're both useful even when no mistakes are made, and actually have relatively little uptime to support the team when mistakes are frequent. But I have to ask, is something useful at all times even what you really want, especially if the cost for failure-specific outputs are low, when you're playing a more... thematically defender-type tank? I'd agree that these tools should see more use to bend strategies further and more frequently, but I'm not sure they need to be regular outputs.Quote:
Then you have situations like paladins, where a good portion of its toolkit is basically useless in a remotely decent group. Cover is one example, divine veil also. it's a pretty strong shield admittedly but it isn't really needed or useful that often. If you pass a dps check before big aoe damage that damage is trivial. And divine veil is a joke, if you fail the dps check you wipe regardless of how many shields you can throw up.
And this is where I blame the distinct metas wherein CCs and such go from fully applicable to suddenly useless. There should be a more analog range of effect here to allow for different strategies as enemy resistances increase, rather than merely creating two distinct rulesets wherein a number of previously useful skills go by the wayside.Quote:
So many skills are made useless simply from the way content is designed.