Alexander 12N Tuning

Most issues about the difficulty seem to be about group communication issues and has nothing to do with the fight itself.

Not sure where you guys get your healers from. I'm a Pld and all my healers in this 1st week of Alex were pretty damn good. I had a harder time on A11 than A12 with all the aoes exploding around. I agree that A12 is more big damage than big mechanics.

Personally I love the fight difficulty where it is. Downed it Day 1 so I can't say I find it that bad. It's tough, but it's doable and takes some learning and coordination. It will get easier as we get more gear. Right now we're at the bare minimum of what we need to get through it well. Give it time, give people a chance to gear and to learn... it's only week 1.

I don't have any problem being healer at a12, the problem only the dps that don't know that you should go inside to kill adds or don't have enough time to go inside. It's really fun fight and please git gud. :rolleyes:

Someone should start a petition to make normal mode raids more challenging. It's pretty refreshing honestly to find some casual content with teeth.

I main as a healer (White Mage usually) and think it's fine as-is. It'll only get easier as people get better gear too.

I cleared it on day one as an i231 White Mage and had NO trouble keeping the raid healed and managing damage, even with people dying pretty frequently because they'd mess up a mechanic here or there. The fight is tuned fine - it's a little harder than most fights but it's a raid fight - it's supposed to be!

I thought A12 was way easier than A11. Day one, it took 6 attempts over 2 groups to get through A11, but only 2 tries to down A12- and Im as casual as they come.

The hardest challenge of the fight is getting everyone on the same page. If you are struggling with duty finder, hit up friends/fc mates/party finder.

Thank god they are a challenge thank you square

I really liked it. As a healer main (AST, sorry haters), I loved that you can really shine. And I beat it on my first try, but my party was competent. More than half of us were new to the duty too.

I come from RO were your ability to play your job actually made a difference on fights. So I was very happy with this change. I've yet to try alex savage, but that's because I'm a bit tired of scripted fights where 1 mistake can wipe the party. So yeah, I'm happy with this the way it is now ^^

12 didn't seem that bad to me once you know how to handle the markers. Most of the wipes come from that, and as a result, wipes tend to happen very early in the fight until you learn.

11 though... hoo boy. I see myself dreading this one as a weekly just like I dreaded Wiping City. This fight doesn't really get complex until the end, so you'll usually end up slogging through most of the fight over and over only to wipe at that point, which will wear people down and cause people to ditch faster.

Also, I dunno about anyone else, but the music in A11 is also the only fight in the game that makes me want to turn the music off.

I like A12, it keeps you on your toes.
It's not too hard. Personally I would say it's because other content is more chill with more breathing rooms than this.

It seems fine for me, just a bit bursty. Make sure to keep people topped off and use an AoE heal/buff (adlo/succor, enhanced benefic, medica 2) before the time stuff happens.

Yes, it can create troubles but I don't think it's any different than A8 and A8. I understand it causes DF parties to wipe but eventually everybody will be able to get past this fight before the reset. Easing the damage means that in a few weeks the fight won't be challenging any longer and we will have another weekly boring task like VoidArk.

Let's see it as an opportunity to test your skills and become stronger. Even if it is a story mode raid, it still is a raid so It is ok if the difficulty curve is a bit above the average...

It's fine. Number 1 way to avoid most of the heavy damage is to learn to dodge and do the mechanics. It's perfectly ok to have some sense of challenge in story mode content while it's fresh and new - everything does not have to be readily steamrolled and cleared in a day. Echo and better gear will eventually be all the nerf it needs. For now? Everyone should also look into their abilities that support the whole party. I offtanked as PLD. I see the tank buster being charged? I start casting Clemency on the main tank. I have Divine Veil ready? I use it.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

That's tank buster territory on DPS. Meanwhile the tank is getting smacked and a raid AoE damage is coming out. Many are right in the sense that this is going to separate the Good Healers from the Decent Ones, basically Vault 2.0, but again that should be the place of Savage mode, NOT story.

Savage raiders need to get out of this thread because it doesn't apply to them. This mode is for the casuals, the majority of players.

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Casual here. New gear is all the fight needs to ease up the difficulty. We have new gear to work towards. We have a reason to get that gear. The fight will be steamrolled soon enough. It doesn't have to be steamrollable on the first week of release. Give it time. You're looking at people going in at near minimum ilvl at this point.

This is basically WC all over again. It's a wake up call. The only reasons I see people dying is because heals are dpsing away not keeping an eye on the health bars, and dps doing stupid dps things (standing on switches.. forever.. and ever.. and ever..).

For the former it's been happening a lot on the jp servers. I've watched the MT be reduced down to 2k hp and the healer is still focused on dps. I've lost count the number of times I could've been saved if the heals turned off their own tunnel vision.

I like the fights as is though, things will get better hopefully from this week. A9/10 are mostly intimidating but are actually easy, A11 final 15% is intense, A12 is satisfying when things go well.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Again, fueling your own drama, I never said no challenge, and I do think that current content should have some challenge.

Steps was nerfed because it was the gateway to Heavensward. People left when it popped in the DF because there was absolutely no incentive to complete it after the initial completion as it gave no rewards. So they had to nerf it. Otherwise people wouldn't have been able to play their new expansion.

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Right. Alexander gates nothing. It is merely a side story you want to have beaten the first week. Why should those who do want some degree of challenge be robbed of it because you can't wait to have it cleared? Yes, it may be poor DF groups slowing you down. That happens to us all, and certainly shouldn't warrant a nerf. People eventualy got over Nidhogg's difficulty once Yoshi stated they had no intentions of reducing the difficulty.

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Not everything has to be on the cutting edge of challenge. Dungeons shouldn't be that hard because they should be something you can complete in less than 30 minutes per day. That's why we no longer have the super long dungeons of 2.0 (Stone Vigil, DD, Aurum Vale). Not many liked them. And if running old content for challenge is your thing, use the minimum ilvl button and do it that way. I would guess you've never done that and will never do that. Rose colored glasses and pining for the past don't get you very far in life.

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Instead, we have a declining sub total. I would hazard a guess the sheer laughably difficulty dungeons we're meant to spam for three months contributed to people's departure. Frankly, I shouldn't be capable of tanking any level 60 dungeon as a Dragoon, yet ran the entirely of Saint Mocianne's Arboretum as basically a tank because I badly outgeared our Paladin. No one is expecting nor demanding dungeons because an absurd challenge. Just that they actually require more than banging your head on the keyboard. Perhaps you ought to take that advice in regards to your own opinions. Seems anyone who disagrees with you either only covets Savage or has "rose tinted glasses".

We're also "paying customers," by the way.

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Finally, according to what I've read, the player base isn't dropping. If anything it's growing, and most of them will never step foot in a Savage. Just like most never set foot in a Coil in 2.0

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The unofficial census placed the overall character number at nearly 800k back in January. We have since dropped to approximately 500k, though I imagine some have returned with 3.4's launched. Either way, no the game does not seem to be growing, but has plateaued.

Learn to play

I think it's pretty great that the content has some teeth to it, at least in the first week or so after release. It's challenging to do with a Duty Finder group, but far from impossible. I ran A12 several times this weekend, each time with one or more players new to the content (and generally several who were not new but still had not cleared), and all but one time we were able to win after a few wipes. I don't doubt that there will be groups that will run out the clock without a win (or fall apart earlier), but this is a good level of challenge to expect for a bunch of random players tossed together.

A11 was harder than A12 but both aren't very hard but you need at least one competent healer and one that can at least hit their aoe heals once in awhile while not trying to consume the floor with their face. I really hope they dont nerf it because as a whole itll make the community better.
#healangry

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Originally Posted by Lareine

A11 was harder than A12 but both aren't very hard but you need at least one competent healer and one that can at least hit their aoe heals once in awhile while not trying to consume the floor with their face. I really hope they dont nerf it because as a whole itll make the community better.
#healangry

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So many deaths to prey, so so many deaths to prey

I'm Ast and I solo healed that fight. I don't think there's an issue there tbh. The fight is fine

The fight is fine, just a huge healer check. I cleared it on my second attempt without any trouble as we had great healers who knew what to do.
Yesterday, I tried to help a friend clearing it before the weekly reset, but our healers kept dying to the lasers and there was no chance of reaching the end like that.

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Originally Posted by MrsFluffyButt

Learn to play

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Real talk, we can say this all we want, but the sole issue with this and other difficulty things is that the game doesn't properly teach you how to play your class. It gives you some basics on your role but nothing at all on your actual skill set. THEN when you get stomped to much you get echo which basically gives you a big enough stat boost so that you cna face roll your way to victory.

The idea is that there are supposed to be numerous viable builds like borderlands, and you play your own way, but that falls flat on its face cause there's literally only ONE way to properly play each job.

You can say "oh people shouldn't be spoon fed and do research" but that's bull. If there is only one viable way to play every class, then yes, they should be taught how to play this way. I'd suggest that once you hit max level, there be a series of quests that basically teaches you your rotation and all that and ends with an exam that basically says "do X damage/healing/mitigation/aggro to win". This would naturally gate you until you clear it, but you'd be a stronger player for it.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

And there is a mode for challenge, it's called savage. Normal mode should be for experiencing the story.

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It's people like you that will ruin Ffxiv you dont want any kind of challenge

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

@ Previous post

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The game shouldn't tell you how to play. You should take the time to learn your role properly with a high level of skill instead of moaning and crying behind huge walls of excuse ridden text, like this one for example. :)

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Originally Posted by Dumbledoremd

It's people like you that will ruin Ffxiv you dont want any kind of challenge

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So much this. Savage is on the complete other end of the spectrum. Not like Alex is required.

My only gripe is, from what I've seen, is weakness or brink of death can cause a prey to be an insta kill. Had a run where he LOVED me and I ate some floor. Maybe a small tuning there or something, otherwise the fight is a perfect mix of difficult but not "omgwhatsgoingonholdme".

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Originally Posted by MrsFluffyButt

The game shouldn't tell you how to play. You should take the time to learn your role properly with a high level of skill instead of moaning and crying behind huge walls of excuse ridden text, like this one for example. :)

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THIS. It is an MMO, with a community... network. Or, I saw you have a DRG... there are a few WONDERFUL guides that can take any rookie to a decent dragoon. The game gives you the tools, but after 50/60 the training wheels come off.

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

I'd suggest that once you hit max level, there be a series of quests that basically teaches you your rotation and all that and ends with an exam that basically says "do X damage/healing/mitigation/aggro to win"

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I think SE should release a few "official guides" about Rotations or strats (at least for the 2.X and 3.0 contents) as I'm not sure that we are playing everything as intended.

Still, the OP was saying that there's just too much pressure on the healers and healing is not something you can learn through guides, it's situational. There's no a rule of thumb to know when to use benediction or essential dignity. It's just a matter of good sense and experience, which can be gained only if the fight remains as difficult as it is now. We need to accept that contents will become more complex and that if we don't have the requirements (iLVL, skill, time etc) we should wait or train harder.

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Originally Posted by MrsFluffyButt

The game shouldn't tell you how to play. You should take the time to learn your role properly with a high level of skill instead of moaning and crying behind huge walls of excuse ridden text, like this one for example. :)

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You must mean the drivel you just posted, because games have been teaching you how to play since the dawn of time. Tutorial modes. Have you heard of them? ;)

This game isn't as rigid as something like Destiny, or Borderlands, or any class based game where there are multiple correct ways to play a subclass and each are equally effective. There is generally only one way to properly play each job, teaching that very basic thing isn't the worst thing to ask for. Every halfway decent game already does it. That's like saying you should HAVE to buy a strategy guide to be the best at a game. You sure you don't work for any publishing companies?

Meanwhile...

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Originally Posted by Andres_Lonegrief

I think SE should release a few "official guides" about Rotations or strats (at least for the 2.X and 3.0 contents) as I'm not sure that we are playing everything as intended.

Still, the OP was saying that there's just too much pressure on the healers and healing is not something you can learn through guides, it's situational. There's no a rule of thumb to know when to use benediction or essential dignity. It's just a matter of good sense and experience, which can be gained only if the fight remains as difficult as it is now. We need to accept that contents will become more complex and that if we don't have the requirements (iLVL, skill, time etc) we should wait or train harder.

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This guy is right on the ball. Learning a rotation is just the basics. The real test is going to come from applying what you've learned to each battle, and then adjusting appropriately. There's no guide in the world that can tell you that save for the school of hard knocks. Then and only then is when true skill will begin to manifest itself

I'm surprised people are complaining about a12 when a11 is WAY more annoying.

One shot a12 tonight, 4 times. A11 took 3 wipes. Each time it got down to the tank and I (people have a hard time with Shiva circles + beams.) No one even died to prey. Tank getting confused from propeller and chasing me across the map, stacking his optical sight inn me, right before the LB3 bar fills. He got me 2/3 times. Once was the off tank buster. Finally we just ended up burning so hard that we skipped Shiva circles. Lol

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I'm surprised people are complaining about a12 when a11 is WAY more annoying.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

One shot a12 tonight, 4 times. A11 took 3 wipes. Each time it got down to the tank and I (people have a hard time with Shiva circles + beams.) No one even died to prey. Tank getting confused from propeller and chasing me across the map, stacking his optical sight inn me, right before the LB3 bar fills. He got me 2/3 times. Once was the off tank buster. Finally we just ended up burning so hard that we skipped Shiva circles. Lol

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Also these things. A11 does seem to be the annoying one. The fact that you can phase push rather easily if you're competent makes the fight somewhat unpredictable. I had one group just sort of fall apart at around 20% because a buttload of mechanics involving dodging and preys and a floor wide AoE just sort of happened at once.

I am by no means saying nerf. I think it's exciting tbh

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Originally Posted by Phireblast

No god dammit, it's perfectly fine. People said the same about A8 upon release. This community is always worried about non savage content tuning when it's usually the player's fault.

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Exactly, it's perfectly fine as it is. I just cleared it last night and before that we were getting to the rage timer. It's more about peoples iLV and actually using debuffs on the boss. A properly placed Virus, Rend Mind, Mantra all make things possible here. It's not that hard of a fight, it does put a big strain on healers but now we have to time out our skills more. If anything, this shows how helpful party enhancements such as Mantra can be, or how things like SuperVirus are useful.

As we get up there in iLV from this week and next Alexander will go down much faster, HP will be a bit higher and heals will do more. Making it easier. Usually when I'm healing something that is harder due to iLV restrictions (whether it's because gear is new, sync or whatever situation you'd like to put out there) I realize I use my regens more and differently, I also encourage more Cure III's and you better get your butt back for it. Stoneskins, using Ethers. Then as things die down I'm back to my medica's doing enough.

if they make it any easier they should remove the loot. Then every1 will want it to go back 2 the way it was where u beat it and actually EARNED the loot. Bottom line is u just want gear without having to actually work 4 it, if u where actually worried about it being a story thing you'd realize it doesn't matter cause u would only run it once and ur done in which the slight bit of difficulty wouldn't matter cause u can always find ppl in the pf to help if ur afraid of the df.

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Originally Posted by Andres_Lonegrief

We need to accept that contents will become more complex and that if we don't have the requirements (iLVL, skill, time etc) we should wait or train harder.

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This this THIS.

It's perfectly fine if nobody dies and there's enough DPS and everyone does mechanics without fail. However, asking that of pugs can get frustrating.

Seriously, as soon as someone dies, it all just snowballs from there. I have to stop to get off raises and apparently the other healer cannot react quickly enough to the copious amounts of aoe damage going out as soon as i start casting it. I have seriously just watched as my cohealer just stands there after megaholy goes out while i was getting raises off. Then by the time the tank buster goes out, the tank is way too low and dies, and it just keeps rolling downhill from there.

Since people aren't out gearing it yet, it requires a certain level of competence that some pugs don't have.

Went through Alex normal for the first time with 3 FC friends last night.
One friend had done some research beforehand and explained some mechanics and we met a few helpful players that called out key mechanics in the chat box as well.

We two shot A9 and one shot everything else albeit with some deaths and general messiness. I'd say the tuning was fine. Even with making mistakes we were able to recover and carry on to victory in most cases with 2 new healers (myself and a FC friend) in A9-A11. (for A12 we had another FC friend who had cleared before in one of the healer spots).

A11 was the messiest. 1 of the DPS accidentally released after being KO'd by the active time event but we still pulled through the second half in spite of only having 7 players and several more deaths.

Got my a12n 1st clear yesterday. took 3 groups.

3rd group. one of the DPS died and went afk before adds and never came back. My wife was a warrior off tanking and went in and DPS check. We won between 3-1 seconds auto wipe enrage timer.

So a Random group of 7 can clear this... There is no need to change anything.

This thread...

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Gear will carry you in a couple of weeks, be patient...