I just want to make it clear that I pulled Xeno into this not because I was like "omg he is the best warrior ever". I brought him into this because he is a well known tank but mostly because he said the subject of this debate lol. That's basically it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
issue I have with just giving paladin more "mitigation" basrd utility is that the meta is so focused on pushing to the limit that I think mitigation utility is a waste if fights are going to be like how they are now. And always assume im talking from a min/max standpoint. Yeah min/maxers will always play by the skin of their teeth, but over mitigation will just further the gap imo. If they tailor fights to compensate then that's just bad design and I hope they don't do that. Not that you mentioned that, but I'm just rambling and it has been said already.
Xeno believes paladin should NEVER be main tank
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05-11-2016, 08:09 AMGameplayzero
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05-11-2016, 02:49 PMReynhartTo be precise, in 2.x, the gap between PLD ShO vs PLD SwO was far greater than WAR Defiance vs WAR stanceless, so the overall best setup, DPS wise, was WAR MT/PLD OT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gameplayzero
PLD's "shitty damage" has always been ShO only, because SwO is actually a really huge damage boost. Considering the weapon delay, it's basically a +50 potency to all your GCD skills, with no enmity boost.
That's why i think giving PLD the ability to use its mitigation on the main tank can be a good thing. If the PLD is OT, it doesn't need to be in ShO, so it can do good damage. And it could allow the MT so stay out of tank stance more, to also keep high damage. Or simply reduce the need for healing, allowing healers to DPS more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gameplayzero
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05-11-2016, 07:37 PMIskarJarak
Rather then argue about this in the manner you guys are arguing in... why not just ask Xeno himself?
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05-11-2016, 08:20 PMYuni_Queen
I would rather hear opinion some pro no-lifes from Japan. I bet they have outdone us all twice when it comes to maximizing anything in this game.
Damn hikikomori'es.... -
05-11-2016, 09:27 PMIromiI am not sure if this is a serious post or troll >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by KuraiKiserogeru
Just a few questions...or uh..thoughts..
I did not realize you knew every single WAR in the game personally? Or did we forget that not everyone makes videos of stuff they do in a video game lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by KuraiKiserogeru
Into what? My group never watches and videos or listens to anyone but ourselves..and we clear stuff just fine...and we've been together since FFXI days.Quote:
Originally Posted by KuraiKiserogeru
I know tons of tanks and not one mentions this fellow...Quote:
Originally Posted by KuraiKiserogeru
People still do/watch twitch? Furthermore...I am sorry but, I do love FFXIV...it is fun to play, but extremely boring to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by KuraiKiserogeru
Again..people still do this? How bad is someone that they need to rely on a video? I mean...okay...I get that they give helpful hints and that is cool...but relying on it to this much? Uhm...well this explains a lot then.Quote:
Originally Posted by KuraiKiserogeru
Again...I know a tooooon of people who play this game and again, never heard of this person. Just looks like your regular gamer who enjoys their hobby, which is cool. You are acting like this person cured cancer...very neckbeardy and cringe worthy post. Really, I had to cover my face reading that from embarrassment. Well...okay then. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by KuraiKiserogeru
Hahaha...yeah same. But I guess people tend to forget not everyone sits home all day and makes guides upon guides and plasters themselves on the internet. Most people just don't care lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen
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05-11-2016, 09:28 PMJpec07Because, while some may respect his prowess and knowledge of the game, we don't view the thoughts and opinions of one player any higher than any others'. We're not discussing what his opinion is so much as we're discussing the greater issues and ideas that informed that opinion, so that we can all form opinions of our own.Quote:
Originally Posted by IskarJarak
There was a shift in the online discussion community around 2.2-2.3 wherein the attitude very quickly shifted toward tanks pushing out as much damage as they possibly could (it had to do with being able to customize the stats on the relic weapons, and people suddenly needed to figure out what was "best"). Before this, "turtle tanking" was the norm, but this shift focused on a more aggressive methodology, where the online community became very focused on DPS. In large part, this was due to how scripted the fights were, and due to the fact that gear offered (and still offers) very little in the way of contributing to mitigation. While I'd personally like to see a lot more randomization in damage income for tanks, it would be a bit of an upset.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromi
I usually have things like that on in the background while I'm derping in Diddlyshire. It's helpful because sometimes, someone will talk about something I might not have considered, or will help me see something from a different angle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromi
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05-11-2016, 09:50 PMGameplayzeroso I'm confused. You actually question the use of vids? I mean for normal content yeah, but for raids? Especially when doing try outs or joining an already existing group? Not only that but studying different rotations and different methods to doing certain mechanics is no harm done. Watching vids doesn't make you a bad player IF that's what you are implying. You can completely ignore vids however if group is cool with that, but most won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromi
and the forum has mentioned Xeno plenty of times. Not really a nobody just because you've never heard of him :p. Though my post is rather off topic.
basically what jpec said. Maybe a discussion as old as time, but I wanted to get opinions and hear everyone's thoughts on this. As well as have misinformed players like myself see the post as well. Learn more about the tanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by IskarJarak
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05-11-2016, 09:57 PMKrenianKandos
While kudos to you and your group for going in blind or nearly blind, Iromi, please understand that a lot of the norm is still for people to go and review fights on Youtube or watch well known streamers beat the fight so they have an edge to actually beat the fights. As such, it's not really a wise idea to crack on the norm because you do it differently.
There is nothing wrong with watching someone who is rather knowledgeable about the tanking aspects of one class give his honest opinion. We all have opinions and part of being on a forum is to discuss things such as this topic and see what others think about the situation. Just because you haven't heard of the fella doesn't mean he doesn't have good ideas. While yes, I agree, everyone should just do their own thing and decide themselves what they like best, some of us like to have a community that allows us to maximize our potential in regards to tanking.
Just needed to voice that. -
05-11-2016, 10:25 PMIromiWell, to be quite frank, compared to the number of people that play the game and the number of people who actually that do the content that he posts about he is a nobody...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gameplayzero
People recognize me all the time saying "OMG UR DAT COSPLAY GURL FROM FFXIAH I KNEW U I NFFXI 1111!" in DF from cross servers..still, I am a nobody..lol. It is no big deal...
Yup..I do not prefer videos. Often times my group does things very, very different then others, my raid leader prefers us not to watch videos so we can think for ourselves and outside the box, it works :). Oddly enough though I have played with some JP who do things like my group does. Not trying to dis people for watching videos, if they do that is more then fine, I understand why they do.
But yeah, what I was referring to is the way that person umm.... KuraiKiserogeru, was talking was like VIDEOS ARE GOD MADE BY THIS PERSON WHO IS MUH GOD BEST EVAAAAR...kinda weird.
My group and I just have no use for them. We did almost all of coil 1 completely different..to the point where when we went in the DF people were acting like we were idiots for not doing it how "the videos do", looking at videos for ideas or to better oneself is fine, but you have to understand where I am coming from. I agree wtih you 100%. Again, if others do..that is fine, I 100% respect them. My raid leader invents strategies and rotations and helps everyone in my group to learn...so no need for videos for us :)
And, Jpec07 that is cool, yeah stuff like that is fine..its just the way that one person was going on was really creepy towards this Xeno person lol. -
05-11-2016, 10:53 PMGameplayzeroah I get you. well honestly to the general player base the only people that are big are probably just mr.happy and misteq. That's about it imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromi
and honestly blind runs can be far more fun and more rewarding. Just glad your group is having fun doing what they are doing. Raid groups are supposed to find best methods that work for them instead of just copying world first players. Looks like you guys are doing that just fine haha. -
05-11-2016, 11:05 PMKrenianKandosCurious question for you: Does your leader at least research the attacks a boss does in order to do said strategies or do you go in blindly? Curious because it would be easier to plan if you actually knew at least of the attacks. But I could understand just going in and getting blasted and laughing about it because, simply put, you have no idea what to expect and part of the fun, like a puzzle, is to figure out how to deal with a mechanic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromi
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05-12-2016, 01:23 AMIromiSure :) We go in blindly and he adapts on the fly and explains the mechanics to us and what to do almost instantly. A lot of times he also suggests us things to try as a group to test the waters and it usually bodes well once we all can grasp it. Although yes the first few wipes are always a riot and shock..LOL that is the most fun part if you ask me! :D Takes him about 1 blind run to get it step by step and a few to figure out how to explain it to our group. Hehe and he does not use any guides or anything, this I know because I sit right next to him when we play ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by KrenianKandos
OH yeah...blind runs are the best! Love it :D thanks and yeah..I see waht you are saying...when I checked out some FFXIV guides on youtube just now I saw those names pop up, all good!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gameplayzero
and yes, raid groups are supposed to find best methods that work for them. :) Much more rewarding that way and I find things tend to go more smooth with our raid leader calling stuff out as it happens and what to do...instead of saying hey guys go watch this video lol -
05-12-2016, 02:48 AMKuraiKiserogeruJust on the “video topic making subject alone”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromi
Mr.Happy has been known to make long and complicated videos about the game fights, without all the right facts and rushing his videos for that YouTube cash grab. He gained his popularity because at the time he was the only one making videos.
MizzTeq's videos began to outshine his, however lately there has been bad video misinformation and mechanics explanation skipping, such as A3s and A7s. Which reddit gave feedback on as the A7s guide has incorrect information on some mechanics. A3s they were stuck on because they wouldn’t change their strategy, lost static members and ended up posting a very late video. 5 months later when the still together and not "static killed" groups where beating it.
Xeno takes time on creating videos and waits until he understands all the mechanics and experiences it to give a better flowing guide. So sure, bash away at someone who is having a positive contribution to the XIV community. People may use guides, people may not use guides. But there’s a difference when these guides are giving the right and wrong information for the people that wish to watch and learn. -
05-12-2016, 02:58 AMIromi
I never bashed on any of them, I was never insulting nor rude to anyone in any single way. Strawman is really unbecoming you know...
I went as far to say its cool if they do that and have fun...where did I bash on these folks who make videos? Lol.
It comes down to the fact that I simply just do not care >.> If me not caring is bashing then...okie doki! :) -
05-12-2016, 03:53 AMReynhartLike Jpec said, the main point is not really what Xeno thinks, it's that there's still a real issue about PLD's value, even if it's not as important as 3.0-3.1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromi
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05-12-2016, 04:27 AMElfr
Lets hit the brakes for one second, before the wagon falls of its tracks.
The three tanks we have are presented to us as options that meet the different play-styles of many players. Regardless of how many abilities or responsibilities they all share, the premise is that their formulae for output is designed differently at the core.
Paladin is designed to be smooth, efficient, and stout. For players who like to safeguard their group and steadily progress towards completion.
Warrior is designed for players who thrive off of aggressive and quick-execution of the enemies. Their heightened strength fulfills the reward of players who are built for dpsing, regardless of their loyalty or understanding of the role of the tank. This is fine.
Continued below... -
05-12-2016, 04:30 AMElfr
Drk, like all of the HW classes, is a compromise, and a risky one at that, of both worlds. While delivering a new agenda for approaches and rotation, it is simply a WAR under shield oath. Give it a permanent Maim, and a permanent damage reduction, thus giving it a more steady ramp up/sustain. That's all it is. Same way that AST is just a whm w/ the so sought-after insta "lustrate" (being Essential D.)
Three different pathways, because only 1 tanking role would be stale. Now; is warrior the best tank? Yea, you know what, it is. But on a similar analogy; is the piano the most broad and expressive instrument on an orchestra? YYYYYYYYYeeeeaa.... it kinda is. So on that note, why don't just put 10 pianos next time you go to a concerto? Uhhhh, it's called Tessitura. Music needs texture and feel, and so does this game. Having a Deliverance WAR kicking ass while the main healer basically wipes the sweat off his every pore on every 3k auto attack isn't the texture I demand from FF14. -
05-12-2016, 04:37 AMElfr
I'm betting all my 3 year experience on this game that a great PLD allows for the same raid dps as does a great WAR. Because while yea WAR can solo titan ex, and PLD can't, PLD is still the mitigation king. It cannot kill an enemy, but it cannot also die. A stalemate we have all secretly come to love since the release of the class, one that you must accept if you call yourself a PLD main. A great PLD would increase the dps output of healers to the point it would match the dps output of a WAR, plain and simple. If we cannot see this, then we are spitting on Square Enix's face.
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05-12-2016, 04:39 AMReynhartThere is a little problem with your analogy. The quality of music is a very subjective topic. Different people will have different taste, and the music you made will seem beautiful for one person and not for another. You can say that by using this or that instrument, you define a unique goal for your music.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfr
In this game, there is only one goal : Killing ennemies. And this is only achieved by bringing their HP to 0, so whoever does this the fastest will have a clear advantage (Since every tank is sturdy enough to survive any encounter)
Besides, you call PLD a "progress" job...and yes, it kinda is. But progress is not a goal, it's not a final step. You can't have a job which is only "better", or, I should say, "safer", for intermediate goal. That mentality is as flawed as Yoshi-P saying they need an "entry level" tank. At level 60, you're clearly way past beyond entry level.
So, from a musical standpoint, PLD is like the Casio Keyboard you use as a kid to learn music...and WAR is a true piano. -
05-12-2016, 05:21 AMFallenWingsThe problem with this method of raid damage contribution is that it is ultimately unreliable. As far as I'm aware, healers do not account for Parries or Blocks in their rotational healing. Fights are scripted enough where healers who know the timings will heal and deal damage on a strict timer unless they're fixing stupid. Healing is also powerful or can get powerful enough that the extra 20% from Sheltron will not matter if both tanks only need 1 cure to heal all damage, thus nullifying the potential healer DPS increase it could have provided.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfr
At best you could argue that Hallowed Ground provides 3 free healer GCD's with it's 10 second duration and no requirement of a benediction versus Holmgang's 6 and benediction requirement. But then Living Dead blows both of them out of the water with its 18 second potential if we're talking about such high coordinated play. -
05-12-2016, 05:23 AMYuni_QueenAnd DRK is pipe organ. A bit too hard for casuls, but the tunes make your soul stir.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
If it comes to switch tanks for tankbusters, and WAR didnt pop up his stack-giving mitigations, he lost two stacks during berzerk, which is bad. On the other side, if he did, he has only Thrill of Battle, Fore, and Conva.
Rather enough to make it before switch, but party cannot make mistakes. While PLD/DRK change stances and can tank wiping party.
I really don't get your hate. Looks like Paladin hold enmity better than Warrior, if it's Paladin you hate so much! -
05-12-2016, 05:36 AMFallenWingsWith the proper amount of Skill Speed and latency, you only blow one stack giving CD for your Berserk combo which is often Raw Intuition since it lines up nicely with the Berserk cooldown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen
So the available cooldowns for Offensive stance tanking is more like:
WAR: Vengeance, Thrill of Battle
PLD: Rampart, Sentinel, Sheltron(?), Bulwark(?)
DRK: Shadowskin, Shadowwall, Dark Mind(?), Dark Dance(?)
While WAR may be slightly weaker, it is not completely at a disadvantage. You can even argue that a WAR can lineup his Zerk+Raw Intuition for when he needs the mitigation increasing his CD options in a Physical fight. -
05-12-2016, 05:46 AMDeathgiverAs far as sheltron goes, yes we do take planned usage of that into account. Buffs that are still rng dependant like bulwark and drks parry up skill not so much. During early seph ex our pld would sheltron every tower to ensure that a cure I was sufficient after Da'at to ease mp usage.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenWings
Your math is also flawed on the ultimate cd exchange for healer gcds. Given same circumstances (~9 seconds to 0 hp + ~9 seconds invuln then bene) for living dead, a pld or war can wait to pop hallowed ground or holmgang until they are danger low, which should be at least roughly 6-7 seconds if it takes 9 to dead. That makes a pld give 15-16 seconds, a war 11-12 seconds, and for planned usage a war doesn't need a heal after as they can IB, Equilibrium, ToB to well over half hp in the span of 1 gcd. pld vs drk is maybe a differenc of 1 gcd depending on how scared the pld gets and war vs drk might be 2 gcds difference. -
05-12-2016, 05:51 AMYuni_QueenAnd fracture? Aren't we supposed to use vengeance to put additional fracture before 3rd Cleave? Until i have terrible spell speed, but i am DRK by main, so only my weapon is below 230.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenWings
Quote:
PLD: Rampart, Sentinel, Sheltron(I woudnt count that as mitigation in 100%, since some tunk-busters are magic dmg, leaving it in a corner), Bulwark(i quess same here, but i t worked like first kiss during Holy Limit Break during Thor Ex), Stoneskin(Don't forget about this one, its actually 10% HP)
DRK: Shadowskin, Shadowwall, Dark Mind(same as with bulwark or sheltron but reversal), Dark Dance(i am not sure if my healers would love me, if i had used DA+DD as mitigation for some busters, but 20% flat chance to avoid 100% dmg sounds like a crazy play that turns me on.)
Oh no, it is a little. Since WAR cannot cross-class 2nd tank class/WHM's stoneskin. DRK has additional Foresight, while paladin has stoneskin.Quote:
While WAR may be slightly weaker, it is not completely at a disadvantage. You can even argue that a WAR can lineup his Zerk+Raw Intuition for when he needs the mitigation increasing his CD options in a Physical fight.
Arguable, if Featherfoot could be used as legit mitigation, but i woudn't count it fully as mitigation, since it is 15%. not even 20%, and 20 for Dark Dance is crazy play as we agreed.
And if i may quote my friend: "If it's not 100%, it may be as well 5%" ~Xylomar Xi'an - about fucking RNG.
So yeah, Warrior is on a disadvantage here. Not too big, maybe not too important. But when party is starting to wipe, this Raw or Vengeance could save the day. -
05-12-2016, 06:01 AMReynhartYes, a bad WAR will have far more issue tanking than an average PLD. But you can't justify the state of tanks by that. What happens for great PLD ? Shouldn't they be rewarded for their skill ? Shouldn't they be on par with great WAR ? It goes back to what I said earlier. You can't have a job designed around average skill/content without regarding the issue at top tier content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen
Quite the opposite, in fact. PLD was my main until 3.0 where I switched for DRK even when it was thought to be weak because I love the job since FFIV. And I even leveled PLD on my alt to still play it frequently. It's why this issue bothers me. I'd like PLD to be as effective as the two other tanks. And I'd also like it to keep its identity as a protector more than an almost-DPS, as my suggestion on improving Cover can testify.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen
Except that WAR can bring itself back almost to full life with Inner Beast + Equilibirum + Second Wind + Thrill Of Battle. Just look at Xeno's Titan EX solo, you'd surprised.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenWings
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05-12-2016, 06:22 AMKaizer
It is really sad that this is the sentiment or feeling I get playing PLD as well. I'm pretty much going to start migrating away from PLD because of it.
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05-12-2016, 06:33 AMSpookyGhostEh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
/10char -
05-12-2016, 06:39 AMFallenWingsAh, you are correct about Sheltron. Since I forget unlike Inner Beast, it is usable in Sword Oath. If purely tanking, Inner Beast > Sheltron but that shouldn't be the case under optimal play. The ultimate logic is another good point that I seem to have glossed over, although DRK is not as large a gain over the other tanks as I had thought, it is probably still safer to do so with DRK than with the others in the unfortunate event that PLD or WAR mistime or get crit to death before they can activate Hallowed Ground or Holmgang.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathgiver
This is no longer the case with the sweeping 3.2 changes to tanks. That video was during STR era where Tanks had a much lower HP total and a much stronger attack power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
Nowadays Warriors have 30k+ HP in defiance while Equilbrium has gotten weaker with the attack power change. The % of HP healed is much lower than back then. At best I can heal my total HP pool if I get equilibrum to crit while under berserk for 12k, second wind to crit for 3.5k and 6k crit for IB. This is a little bit around 65% HP. Still great but ultimately requires being in Defiance, timing a Berserk, and hoping for criticals. Everything has a cost to WAR's performance as doing the aforementioned costs you 1/2 Fell Cleaves and maybe 10 seconds of Defiance penalty versus PLD who has practically no cost to using Hallowed Ground for a far superior effect.
Thrill of Battle doesn't 'heal' like you think it would since it actually doesn't change the %HP state you are in, just your total HP amount. It's no different than popping Rampart, but for one hit unless healed. -
05-12-2016, 06:55 AMReynhartIt still gives you enough HP to survive without Benediction, considering you can do this every 3 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenWings
Except you don't care about the %HP you're at. If you have 2500/25000 and might take 3000 on the next hit, Thrill of Battle heals you for 5000 HP. You could stay at 7500/25000, it doesn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenWings
It's also why WAR doesn't need Defiance as much as PLD or DRK need their tank stance. As long as you're under your usual HP max, Defiance does nothing for the damage you take. -
05-12-2016, 07:12 AMFallenWingsActually you're right that it is a heal if you don't heal the extra HP total it provides in the context of having lower hp. I suppose the logic if it not being a heal is only applicable in preparation for tankbusters at full HP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
However, I don't necessarily see the point of blowing Thrill of Battle when as you've said, you could have used Second Wind or Equilibrium without removing one of your mitigation options for the future tankbusters.
A (somewhat)fair trade off for requiring up to 5 other skills to achieve a similar effect in terms of survival no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
Because this forum is clunky or I'm just bad at properly replying:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen
You can achieve 9 GCDs in a Berserk which is often: FC, FC, SS/Maim, BB/SE, HS, Maim, SE, Fracture, FC. During the rotation you can gain 4 Abandon stacks through combos so you only need 1 extra stack from CD's to fit that 3rd FC. You Berzerk after HS to fit in Fracture as your 8/9th GCD.
Although it seemed to not be clear, the reason for the (?) on some of the listed cooldowns is as you mentioned their requirement for a specific type of damage. Although they're not always usable, they do give you an edge over X tank if you can use them. Dark Dance itself isn't the real CD but it enables access to Reprisal which can be considered a CD although a weak one. War doesn't have a second tank cross class because it IS the second class cross class lol. Convalescence, Foresight, Awareness, and Bloodbath weren't mentioned since they're universal across all 3 tanks minus traits. Stoneskin costs PLD a GCD and doesn't stack with a healer Stoneskin so I guess you could consider that. Second Wind is a heal and won't prevent you from getting one shotted at 100% HP. -
05-12-2016, 07:27 AMReynhartIt could be, if WAR didn't keep all other mitigation tools ready for action, generally with shorter cooldown than PLD and DRK.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenWings
Especially when one of the above is designed to be "The mitigation tank". (Three guesses which one it is, the first two don't count :p)
Second wind can still save you or give the healer the few seconds it could need to bring you back on foot. And it costs nothing. As a DRK, I'd rather have LNC than MRD as a cross-class, to refill my TP or improve my parry rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenWings
(And deal more damage as an OT with BfB, but shhhhh :p) -
05-12-2016, 07:34 AMFallenWingsI don't know man, Vengeance and Thrill of Battle seem to be my only real options because I want Raw Intuition for Berserk and I don't know what Defiance and Inner Beast are anymore. Holmgang still has other flaws such as requiring a target, being rooted, a shorter duration, and only invincibility at 1 HP. But those flaws rarely surface in most encounters so I guess it's still pretty broke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
I guess it can't be helped that Warriors are so perfect. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sheltron and Dark Mind are still pretty sick since they don't require ShO/Grit so you can say PLD/DRK can tank better in their offensive stance. Maybe. -
05-12-2016, 02:39 PMReynhartImagine if, as a PLD, I could Cover you with my mitigation tools for more Tankbusters, while staying in SwO since I'm not really taking damage apart from that, and allowing you to stay in Deliverance, since you won't take those big hits anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenWings
Seriously, everybody wins there ! :D -
05-12-2016, 03:34 PMGameplayzeroto be fair his recent videos haven't been like this. They are around the same length as everyone else's and is far more detailed. I never liked misteq even when happy made super long guides because she always tried to summarize stuff quickly. Now I dislike her guides even further thanks to what you mentioned. I'd rather have long videos that go into every nuance than vids that miss information just in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by KuraiKiserogeru
again off topic I apologize, but just wanted to clear things up. -
05-13-2016, 12:37 AMInstrumentality
I dunno, man.
Any fight where the damage is largely physical and can be solo tanked I'd take a PLD MT over any other tank any day. A7S this tier for example. -
05-14-2016, 06:33 AMRagnorak
I have been a WAR main up until joining my current group some months ago in which I'm now PLD. My main beefs with PLD is the fact that my oaths cost me mana and my Clemency cost me 2k mana SE pls! Other than that I enjoy PLD in savage and am having a blast in A7S.
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05-16-2016, 10:25 AMHatsoonMike
DRK MT WAR OT is the best combination in any situation, why is this even a topic?
Also, I don't understand why so many people listen to Xeno and follow his words as gospel. He's decent at the game but not very smart, and a below average tank. -
05-16-2016, 11:34 AMIromiHey I think I see you post on guildwork...with the funny pic lmao XD But yea I agree with you. It is sad to see haha..Quote:
Originally Posted by HatsoonMike
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05-16-2016, 12:06 PMSpookyGhostOnly if you view everything in a vacuum of "what's the highest pure DPS output from 2 tank jobs". Encounters aren't so black and white, though. Even just in the combo of DRK + WAR, WAR MT can be significantly safer for progression due to IB's potential up time and Equilibrium, along with the more versatile CD suite. If we look back at A4S, WAR had better tools for handling Nisi than DRK did while still being able to handle MT duties. Layla Bell, the WAR from Elysium, discussed in this video (unfortunately I don't have the time atm to pick through it and find the part where he talks about it, but its in there somewhere) the advantages of WAR MT for the core if you're interested in finding out more about that. It's also important to consider that SE seems to be going back to the Savage SCoB philosophy of forcing both tanks to do tanking things, so often it comes down to "who is the best tank for this mechanic" and "who is the best tank for that mechanic", you can see it pretty clearly in A6S but it's littered throughout all of Gordias and most of Midas (A5S and A7S are a bit weird).Quote:
Originally Posted by HatsoonMike
While I agree you shouldn't treat anyone's words as gospel (w/o other sources confirming), I'm curious why you say he's "not very smart" and a "below average tank". He's by no means the best WAR, there's a lot of aggressive habits Xeno has that lead him to really sketchy situations, but I'd say he's at least above average. You can go look at his 7man MT T13 for some really fine tuned GCD mapping, as well as his Titan EX solo video. But yeah, just curious why you say that.Quote:
Also, I don't understand why so many people listen to Xeno and follow his words as gospel. He's decent at the game but not very smart, and a below average tank.
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05-16-2016, 12:46 PMLeeraSorlani would just like to say, that while xeno obviously didnt just faceplant his keyboard to solo that titan ex, the only reason he won was because of pure luck, there were MANY times where if his heals hadnt crit, he would have been dead.no doubt he practiced and tryed that over and over to get the clear he did get, but it wasnt from pure skillQuote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost