This is awesome... Why couldn't we have this?

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO2QFM2a8PQ

Original titan cutscene for 1.0. You can see why the Warriors of Light do what they do. You can see that Titan cares about the Kobolds. You can see how angry he is and what a fierce fight this is going to be.

Where was that story in 2.0? Why did it get cut out? It's both beautiful and terrifying. Makes me respect Titan a whole lot more!

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Wow. Did titan just sacrifice himself for his followers? I guess the primals aren't as black and white as the scions and ascians would have you believe.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

People think that leveling is slow in this game. It's nothing compared to 1.0 lol.

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Understanding the Fatigue System
To be fair: the idea wasnt that bad, but how they balanced it was crap!
Their main mistake was to punish the players while in most other MMOGs they given bonus instead

Low curve - and punish the fast players
High curve - and give bonus to slow players (common system is the resting bonus when you logout in bed)

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Originally Posted by Popotolord

Wow. Did titan just sacrifice himself for his followers? I guess the primals aren't as black and white as the scions and ascians would have you believe.

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The 1.0 Primals were more beings than they were forces of nature like they are in 2.0. Primals in 2.0 are more of a force of nature with a single minded determination.

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Originally Posted by melisande

1.0 was so amazing.

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Did you play beta and the first 3 months? O.o?

That video made us look like the Villains and not Titan or his kobolds. Now I feel bad for killing all those kobolds. :/

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

crafting complaints

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I disagree with your views on crafting. Crafting already is complex enough and I like it how it is. The worst thing they could do is replicate FFXI system where you had a minute chance of gaining skill points at any level and you always had a random chance of failure and to lose all your materials. Sorry but I did not find it fun at all.

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Back in the day, if you didn't have Leatherworker leveled, good luck making certain Weaver items.

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What do you mean? There isn't a single craft that doesn't required materials made by other professions. With leatherworking many recipes require weaving. Many weaving recipes also require leatherworking still contrary to what you are saying. Maybe you could elaborate?

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As for his battle ideas, boy how I wish that stamina bar would come back. Use provoke once, attack twice, and wait for it to recharge. Leveling is too simple too. We need to bring back his vision of the fatigue system. Level for a while, then be unable to gain more exp at a decent rate.

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Do you enjoy being punished? What is fun or engaging about a fatigue system? It's a punishment for playing the game. Why would you want that?

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Originally Posted by Felis

I think the battle system before the devs changed it for the job system?
Let's see:

no auto-attack

stamina bar

90% of all skills was able to equip with every other class after learning them (how many was dependent on the current class level). Exceptions were the standard attack skills that cost no TP and skills bought in the guilds with guild marks earned by leves.

TP bar - fill up the TP bar with standard skills that cost no TP (comes with the equipped weapon) to earn enough TP for weapon skills.

Exp from an enemy was dependent on the total hits (not dmg) on the enemy before it died. DoTs and debuff skills was seen as exp-killers, because they reduced the amount of hits before the enemy die. The longer a battle needed, the better the exp at the end.

AoE toogle for DoM - it allowed to switch between Aoe and single target for all spells like in the classis FF games (Nintendo and PS1 era).

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Thanks for the explanation, it does share similarities with WoW in some ways though. TP bar is similar to Paladin's resource (whatever it was called) and Rogue's energy, Warrior's rage, and others too I believe. You used normal abilities which were rather weak to build up a resource in which you spent on stronger abilities. Never liked that myself too much, but it was quite common in MMOs for whatever reason. AoE toggle also existed on some classes, namely Rogue (as I mained one).

The skill sharing is interesting though, I want and don't want that in FFXIV at the same time. It might force me to level up every other class which I'd hate, but it would bring some much needed variety at the same time. >_< I do wish they'd bring back the ability to wear any armour set, why can't I be an armoured Ninja when I can be a Ninja wearing a Reindeer suit? :(

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

I disagree with your views on crafting. Crafting already is complex enough and I like it how it is. The worst thing they could do is replicate FFXI system where you had a minute chance of gaining skill points at any level and you always had a random chance of failure and to lose all your materials. Sorry but I did not find it fun at all.



What do you mean? There isn't a single craft that doesn't required materials made by other professions. With leatherworking many recipes require weaving. Many weaving recipes also require leatherworking still contrary to what you are saying. Maybe you could elaborate?



Do you enjoy being punished? What is fun or engaging about a fatigue system? It's a punishment for playing the game. Why would you want that?

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That part of the post was a joke, in case you missed it.

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

Do you enjoy being punished?

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I think the sarcasm in that post went way over your head.

No wonder Titan is so angry in 2.0 Those Kobold that were revived after His sacrifice was quickly slaughtered by the company of heroes :(

during what part of the 1.0 story line was CoH mentioned?? as i don't recall reading anything about trhem till 2.0

also in the e3 trailer if you look closely, its a different room, and he is casting something not holding up his heart. And still, said linked footage, looks 0 like the trailor footage.

alzso all ingame ff14 CS used INgame graphics only movie trailors was before you hit start. this was actually a selling point. I never said stuff about titan didn't exist, i just said that footaged was faked, too meny inconsisitences. I just don't like people duping others. Or promoting ilieagal stuff.


and from someone who played WoW and ff14 1.0 it was nothing like it. ff14 had a elder scrolls meets ff11 vibe in combat and leveling remember when we didn't get exp?? just skill levels?

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

ITT: more thinly-veiled "I wish this was FFXI-2" salt

never seen that before. fresh and new, just like 3.15 content.

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ummm what?? wrong thread??

ITT: more thinly-veiled "I wish this was FFXI-2" salt

never seen that before. fresh and new, just like 3.15 content.

Azazua, not sure why you're unbelieving, or why this video pains you in some way that you simply reject it's validity.
It's an unfinished cutscene, dug up by someone not involved with the development team. Of course there will be inconsistencies. But that was certainly something that felt like it was from 1.0.
You continue to claim you've played a lot of 1.0, but somehow don't remember much of it.

Not every Primal was claimed to be evil, but more as a threat. We have Ramuh and Shiva, which are not hostile primals, but still continue posing a threat because they eat aether.
Other than that, they're all eikons. They're not real, they're only the images of what their followers believe them to be.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Azazua, not sure why you're unbelieving, or why this video pains you in some way that you simply reject it's validity.
It's an unfinished cutscene, dug up by someone not involved with the development team. Of course there will be inconsistencies. But that was certainly something that felt like it was from 1.0.
You continue to claim you've played a lot of 1.0, but somehow don't remember much of it.

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Not to mention a clip of that cutscene was in one of FFXIV 1.0's trailers, it was definitely in 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

What do you mean? There isn't a single craft that doesn't required materials made by other professions. With leatherworking many recipes require weaving. Many weaving recipes also require leatherworking still contrary to what you are saying. Maybe you could elaborate?

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Probably a reference to the FFXI crafting system. You not only required the right ingredients, but you would also require levels in another craft to successfully make the item. Having no, or reduced, levels in a particular craft exponentially raised the chance of it breaking and making you lose every material used in the synthesis.

While all this 1.0 nostalgia is great, let's not forget how much of a buggy, slow game it was. Lands were only sparsely populated with enemies, despite their size and copy-paste. The interface was a hodgepodge which needed server confirmation for literally everything, making it slow to use. Physical levels were as baffling as they were superfluous.

There are a lot of things that 2.0 did away with which needed to stay, however. Limitations on teleporting meant people would actually go out into the wilderness to get from place to place. Elemental weakness and resistance meant that there was actually a purpose to having them in the game (seriously, no one cares about elements in 2.0, like ever), and led to some more tactical combat at times. Having genuinely tough monsters in the field, gave it a sense of danger and meant players would band together to fight them.

This game gained a lot when it transitioned to 2.0, but it also lost a bit. It's a shame they threw out the baby with the bath water though, and ditched Final Fantasy staple elements in favour of muddying the waters with flavours of other 'successful' MMO's. Never were these elements so keenly missed on my part than recently, when it was revealed we'd be seeing the same update pattern for the next ten years.

Still, the fatigue system sucked. I think most sane, rational thinking people will at least agree on that much, and I don't lament its passing.

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

What do you mean? There isn't a single craft that doesn't required materials made by other professions. With leatherworking many recipes require weaving. Many weaving recipes also require leatherworking still contrary to what you are saying. Maybe you could elaborate?

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Maybe that it was faster to level up leatherworker together with your weaverer than to find the needed leatherworker mats for your weaverer in a market ward with no search system.

I'm not sure why so many people are dismissing this scene as 'fan made', when in actual fact it's been long known to have been dummied out in 1.0's files and never used (for reasons already mentioned). I'd seen screenshots taken from it nearly two years ago, and there was even partial quest dialogue from the Path of the Twelve quest that it was planned to be a part of (it should be noted this scene was not meant for an actual Titan battle, but a main scenario quest where the player just bares witness to the summoning and then has to deal with the beastmen who summoned it, like the first summoning of Ifrit in 1.0 during the Path of the Twelve storyline).

In any event, this was made canon in ARR, albeit retconned slightly - the fighters shown in that scene are not adventurers, but members of the Company of Heroes - ARR mentioned the Company were the ones responsible for Titan's original defeat, although it came at a high cost in life. The original 1.0 plan was for the player and their Path Companion to actually show up while the Company were already in the process of fighting him and thus bore witness to the battle - now in ARR this has been altered that a 1.0 player's character was never there. Either way, despite being dummied out, it is still technically canon to the game's storyline for all intents and purposes.

As for why cutscenes in ARR don't look as nice as they did there in 1.0, well, that was probably the only good thing 1.0's engine (Crystal Tools, which was also used for FFXIII and it's sequels) - it was perfect at rendering real-time cutscenes, and not much else.. like.. you know.. a detailed gameworld that wasn't just the same base map and texture repeated ad nausum, that could handle more than 10 npcs on screen at once. But as I've already said my opinions on that in previous threads I think I'll refrain from stating anything more on that subject.

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

Snip

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I think you missed my second paragraph that started out, "In all seriousness." ;)

Anyway, I will elaborate. I'll use a Velveteen Shirt recipe for example. In 1.0, if you wanted to make a Velveteen Shirt (a Weaver recipe) and wanted to make it with as little headaches as possible, you had to have not only your Weaver leveled, but your Leatherworker as well. I failed that synth so many times because my Leatherworker was only 20 and the recipe wanted it at 25.

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Originally Posted by melisande

1.0 was so amazing. Miss it so much, especially during this patch.

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Man, how long have I been gone?
Just last year no one would be able to say this without getting chastised to hell and back.
Heck, I remember when we used to blame XIV's issues on executive meddling. You know, forcing the Crystal Tools engine, forcing the game out before it was complete, a lack of overall strong management for the company as a whole.

Such where gilded times of vivid hope and stalwart dreams.

I think many of the people who now complain about Yoshi-P's direction of the game never lived through the mess FFXIV once was. It failed for a reason, people.
Yes, there were many great ideas that I really miss and which had to be sacrificed to make the rebirth work, but I do not miss the many many other horrible things that are gone now and their absence many don't apprechiate because that's standard in today's MMOs but 1.0 had them.

To answer the OP:
I can see how this kind of cutscene could be problematic in ARR's story. In ARR, we are the obvious heroes. The beastmen who don't want to summon their Primals are okay, but every other beastmen is a target and summoning a Primal is "evil" (because Aether drain) without ever wondering WHY the tribes summon their Primals in the first place. The Circle of Knowing tells us "They are bad and you are good so go and defeat them" and we just obey. We should probably try and get rid of the REASON the beasttribes do those summonings, but instead we only deal with the result of the original problem, not the cause. It's like dropping bombs on a country to get rid of terrorists without thinking about what made people terrorists in the first place..:rolleyes:

I do think though that Yoshi-P's team is slowly steering into a more..ambivalent direction lately, with the DRK storyline, Shiva in general, what Thordan told us before he died, the presumable origin of the WoD and so on.
So while a scenario in which we are clearly the bad guys and the Primals are the victims is unlikely, we are leaving the "you are the perfect hero of light" path slowly but surely :)

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

1.0/FFXI producer, took the fall for 1.0 because SE decided to put it out early before everything was finalized, then we got Yoshi-P who supposedly saved the game by turning it into a generic WoW clone with a FF skin.

Sorry, what I meant to say was: TANAKA IS THE DEVIL INCARNATE, 11 IS GARBAGE, HE RUINED XIV THANK GOD HE WAS FIRED PRAISE YOSHI-P

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tanaka vision had a lot of shortcoming, between the exp rate and the land that was garbage, the lack of true content even.... how can we say him vision was good? even FF11 was far more polish at it release than was V1..

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Originally Posted by Atoli

To answer the OP:
I can see how this kind of cutscene could be problematic in ARR's story. In ARR, we are the obvious heroes. The beastmen who don't want to summon their Primals are okay, but every other beastmen is a target and summoning a Primal is "evil" (because Aether drain) without ever wondering WHY the tribes summon their Primals in the first place. The Circle of Knowing tells us "They are bad and you are good so go and defeat them" and we just obey. We should probably try and get rid of the REASON the beasttribes do those summonings, but instead we only deal with the result of the original problem, not the cause. It's like dropping bombs on a country to get rid of terrorists without thinking about what made people terrorists in the first place..:rolleyes:

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actually if you look at all the cut scene it's explain why the tribes summons them primal:

- Titan: the kobold and limsa had a treaty saying that the land of the island was for the kobold, but after the mess of dalamud, Limsa have stated to colonize the land pushing the kobold to them last place.... actually they are forced into that mess, Y'shtola snaps at the admiral about it.
- Ramuh: he is the less agressive one, actually the sylph was attacked by the imperial army and since they was alone and pushed too (in the V1 you have a scene where the imperial literally invade the sylph territory), in the present day the imperial have litterally a base at the entrance of the sylph territory, then in despair they have summons Ramuh. by the way, the sylph under ramuh aren't aggresive if you don't invade them territory.
- Ifrit: is the less clear, but even this one was called because of the war between uld'ah and the beastman.
- Leviathan: if you do the Sahaghin quest you learn how the people of limsa have been quite hard on the sahaghin, leading them into an extremist reaction. they was needing shore for raise new born and was slayed.
- Mog: it's explain too that mog was hunted by the imperial leading them to the summoning of them primal.

each of them was even more affected by the massive destruction done by bahamut, it's important to remember that it was the human that did this... leading the beastman into a frightneed states.

you don't need to make them look less evil, they had legitimate reason to do what they have done, however the summoning have lead them to be controled and loose them own will.... worst it's not possible to free them to that control.... they are evil and victim.... what make the situation quite strange.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

To answer the OP:
I can see how this kind of cutscene could be problematic in ARR's story. In ARR, we are the obvious heroes. The beastmen who don't want to summon their Primals are okay, but every other beastmen is a target and summoning a Primal is "evil" (because Aether drain) without ever wondering WHY the tribes summon their Primals in the first place. The Circle of Knowing tells us "They are bad and you are good so go and defeat them" and we just obey. We should probably try and get rid of the REASON the beasttribes do those summonings, but instead we only deal with the result of the original problem, not the cause. It's like dropping bombs on a country to get rid of terrorists without thinking about what made people terrorists in the first place..:rolleyes:

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But we know the reason, and we fight against the reason.
Ascians

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Originally Posted by Felis

But we know the reason, and we fight against the reason.
Ascians

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Ascians are not the reason why they summoned the Primals, they merely taught the bestmen how to do it.
It's like teaching someone how to use a gun. Sure, if they only knew how to throw a stone at you the results would be less grave if they decide to go crazy on you, but it's still their decision what to do with that knowledge. The beastmen were desperate before, it's just that the Ascians gave them the power to do horrible things with all their desperation and anger.

silentwindfr pretty much summed up the reasons for several tribes, they are well-known, but never adressed. For Sahagin and Kobolds, Limsa is their main opressor. Their land gets stolen, their children are killed, treaties are being ignored and if they are lucky enough to not get an axe to the head as soon as they show up even remotely in the area of humans, they get discriminated against in the worst ways possible. But we do NOTHING about it. We are like "oh yeah, I guess that happened...now let's slay their sole protector again!" and then wonder why they summon them again and again and again, draining more aether everytime.
What we SHOULD be doing is adressing those issues - find zones for the Sahagin to have their babies, give the Kobolds their land back and forbid people from stealing it on their own. Hire the Kobolds to help with the repairs from the catastrophe, since they are known to be master builders and therefore reduce prejudices against them and solve the problem of people not having anywhere to live at the same time. Of course, the one to make those kinds of decisions is the Admiral, not the WoL. But the city leaders aren't just quite in our debt anyway, our organisation is also the only one who is able to fight against the Primals. So a little threat of NOT removing the primal problem if they don't work on long-lasting solutions wouldn't hurt.. :p

Of course, this is even more true for the tribes that are afraid of the Garleans. Since the Operation Archon, most of the Garlean bases were cut off from their homeland, no more provisions, weapon supplies, new troops or anything. In Northern Thanalan we learn that the main reason why they leave their base and go hunt on beastmen and humans alike, is because they are desperate and starving. Yet we leave the bases untouched, wreaking havoc all over Eorzea instead of finishing what we started and take those people in as war prisoners. Partially that might help once the new leader of Garlemald decides to go forth with any invasion plans, but mainly it removes the problem of the constant Garlean threat everywhere. Less human refugees the towns have to deal with, less scared beastmen to summon their primals on us. But nope, we kinda just let them sit there and that's it.

One thing I actually enjoyed about the HW scenario is that for the new primals, we did try to do something about the new Primals.
Ravana was summoned because the Gnath were afraid of the dragons who encroached on their territory and hunted them from the air. So we went and had a talk with the dragons, got them to agree to leave the Gnath alone and voilà - one problem solved.
Thordan made himself a Primal so there wasn't exactly much to do but defeat him, but we did help with the reformation of Ishgard which was direly needed to not birth someone like Thordan again.
We helped getting Shiva to understand why what she had been doing was wrong (and then gave her a free pass to turn into a Primal as many times as she wanted anyway..xD But let's ignore that part) and are on the best way to solve the conflict between the dragons and the Ishgardians which should bear fruit at some point so no more people feel like they have to defend the dragons with their life (unless Nidhogg destroys all our hard work next patch, but who knows :3).

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Ascians are not the reason why they summoned the Primals, they merely taught the bestmen how to do it.

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The Ascians don't just teach, but also create the situations where the beastmen use what was teached to them.

As an example:
They worked together with the Allagans. The Allagans went on a dragon hunt, killed Bahamut and captured Tiamat.
And the Ascians teached the Allagans how to capture primals and teached Tiamat how to bring back her dead lover as a primal. The rest is history.

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Originally Posted by Felis

The Ascians don't just teach, but also create the situations where the beastmen use what was teached to them.

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Yeah, they stir a bit of chaos. But honestly, at this point, with the aftermath of Dalamud and the like, their is enough chaos to have lots of conflicts even without them meddling all that much.
And it's not like we have someone on the opposing side who actively tries to calm said chaos...:rolleyes:

Edit answer to your edit:
See how the Ascians never did anything bad even in your example though? They just showed people a path they could take and they readily went down there, even though they always had the option to choose otherwise.
That's partially why Thordan was so interesting to me for quite a while - because he planned on USING the Ascians, to take all they could offer and still not go down the way they wanted him to go. Sadly, he ended up doing it anyway. But yeah, you always have the option to ignore the Ascian's whispers. Except for the final fights of both 2.0 and 3.0, the Ascians never personally try to go against "the light" or her messenger. They just tell people "you can take the dark path too" and that's it.

So I still see the problem in the circumstances that force people to make a decision between Zodiark's and Hydaelyn's way in the first place.
Basically, if everyone was 100% happy, well-fed and so on, the Ascians could try to manipulate as much as they want - no one would bother following their teachings.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Thanks for the explanation, it does share similarities with WoW in some ways though. TP bar is similar to Paladin's resource (whatever it was called) and Rogue's energy, Warrior's rage, and others too I believe. You used normal abilities which were rather weak to build up a resource in which you spent on stronger abilities. Never liked that myself too much, but it was quite common in MMOs for whatever reason. AoE toggle also existed on some classes, namely Rogue (as I mained one).

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XIV's means of gaining TP through regular attacks to use more powerful skills would be closer to FFXI's combat system, which worked similarly. In XI, TP is gained through standard attacks, or being hit (or through some skills or items), and then used for more powerful skills. Of course, the idea of "fill meter, use powerful skill" is something that's been used throughout the FF series in one form or another for a long time now. So, they didn't even have to leave their own series to find the inspiration for that system in XIV 1.x.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

The skill sharing is interesting though, I want and don't want that in FFXIV at the same time. It might force me to level up every other class which I'd hate, but it would bring some much needed variety at the same time. >_<

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That system is still present in ARR.

You can use cross-class abilities now. Classes have access to more of them, to allow for the flexibility the Class system is designed around. Jobs are more restricted, and have access to fewer cross-class abilities, but gain a number of unique Job-specific abilities.

1.0~ was slow, buggy and painful on so many fronts (simply incomplete). 2.0~ felt refreshing and promising. 3.0~ is rinse and repeat... I wholeheartedly agreed, nostalgia is great and all, but we can't live in the past. So many of us are still measuring XIV against XI should tell you how much we expect SE to out do/perform themselves...but it seems they rather settle for comfort and ease of $$$ rather than innovate!!!

Gamer Escape has posted an article explaining what was suppose to happen before, during, and after that cutscene.... it's a nice read.

http://gamerescape.com/2015/12/30/th...-titan-of-old/

So yeah, it was the Company of Heroes and not the player in the cutscene.

I'm really nterested in this :

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Hoping to discern the origin of the Echo, you engage Titan in discussion. He confirms that the origin of your blessing is not a god that has been called to the land, but cautions against trying to summon whatever it is. The overuse of such methods, he reveals, surely invites only death and disaster.

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I wonder when and why the Primals went from gods called to the land to mere aether without a real consciousness. All they are in 2.0 onwards is a reflect of their summoners's thoughts

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

I'm really nterested in this :



I wonder when and why the Primals went from gods called to the land to mere aether without a real consciousness. All they are in 2.0 onwards is a reflect of their summoners's thoughts

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I'm sure that's what they meant by "gods called to the land". They're the very image of their followers' god, called upon.
They are gods called to the land that is also an aetheric-sustaining being from the very beginning.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

I'm sure that's what they meant by "gods called to the land". They're the very image of their followers' god, called upon.
They are gods called to the land that is also an aetheric-sustaining being from the very beginning.

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I dunno. Whenever 1.0 primals are brought here and there, they seem to have a lot of depth and to think by themselves, rather than by the collective consciousness from their summoners as they are in 2.0. Maybe I'm just biased because I never played 1.0 though.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

I dunno. Whenever 1.0 primals are brought here and there, they seem to have a lot of depth and to think by themselves, rather than by the collective consciousness from their summoners as they are in 2.0. Maybe I'm just biased because I never played 1.0 though.

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Honestly, I think they still do have their own consciousness in 2.0, but they never got that much depth, really.
I mean, that 1.0 Titan cutscene is pretty neat but it's still the Titan we know and love in 2.0 which still cares about his children.
In 1.0, Garuda is a Primal hungry for power and destruction and Ifrit tempers innocents as his slaves, and they still the same in 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

This is awesome... Why couldn't we have this?

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Are you talking about the beautiful cut scenes? the fact that the primal's had actual emotions outside of just rage? or how MRD has Jump as a cross class?

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Originally Posted by Marxam

Are you talking about the beautiful cut scenes? the fact that the primal's had actual emotions outside of just rage? or how MRD has Jump as a cross class?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laTHafKXMdU

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Originally Posted by Colorful

I have to ask, have you played WoW past the first 10 seconds, and if so, can you explain how it's so different to WoW? Watched yet another video and my impression remains the same as it was prior. WoW with a must slower combat system. The market does not need a system like that, people simply aren't interested in a system where it takes that long to use one ability. Most modern MMO players dislike FFXIV due to it's long GCD and quit without reaching endgame because putting it simply, the gameplay is a bore until you reach max, or near max level. You have a handful of abilities and a few OGCD.

What I personally feel it needs is a combat system that requires actual skill, and no I don't mean TERA, Vindictus, or Black Desert where consist of button spamming (at least the latter two, not sure about TERA at endgame).

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(Played 1.x before any real patches came out, and have played WoW since vanilla, skipping only Mists raiding and mythic WoD)

The combat does not differ significantly enough nor align itself enough with WoW for me to give many points of comparison. In most ways it was simply worse, in my opinion. It could have easily taken an alternate step to something rather great rather than its 1.2 streamlining, which I then would have likely considered about equal to whatever period of WoW combat you consider best between now (WoD) and BC. It did not. The combat differed primarily only in that more white attacks (originally things like "Light Slash and Heavy Slash, later replaced by auto-attacks) were required to do any real attack, and the real attacks therefore hit for proportionately more. There were originally more damage types and distribution models (pure circular AoEs, circular progressive cleaves, donut circular AoEs, linear dmg-increased-per-hit AoEs, pure linear AoEs, linear damage-reduced-per-hit AoEs, and so forth), and each 'class' (little more than a weapon, with particular damage models) shared abilities with nearly all others upon learning, such that you had more to pick and choose from. (Open with Pummel, Circle Slash, Brandish, Aura Pulse, Trammel one side, Jarring Blow counter the other, bottleneck and psuedo-kite into Doomspike... maintain heavy on lead mob and do switchbacks behind it as a shield while generating TP for the next burst... all on a Pugilist. That kind of stuff.) Arguably, that's not especially different from any other tab-based MMORPG's combat system. The difference quite simply lied elsewhere, unless you wish to look at other directions Tanaka's combat system easily could have gone in that would prioritize damage-type/form synergy (more loose-arsenal), rather than maintaining key rotations (more fixed even than WoW) as per Yoshida's. That may well have differed. Alas, we'll never know.

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Originally Posted by Felis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laTHafKXMdU

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People seem to overlook Ramuh (and Shiva if she counts) when it comes to primals having a conscience or emotion. It's just that most of the Primals are very hostile.
Most Primals also never seem to care about their followers, so far the ones who do are Titan, Ramuh, Shiva and Ravana, maybe?

A lot of this issue also stems from the fact that the 1.0 appearances were of the very first summonings of Primals, and thus the citystates at the time knew very little about them (in fact, part of the Path of the Twelve storyline had the player getting deaspected crystals for the beastmen which they knew were being used in summoning rituals, but no one truly appreciated just how dangerous the Primals were, and just regarded the rituals as 'harmless religious ceremonies'. By ARR however, there is no doubt as to the danger Primals pose to Hydaelyn and all who dwell on Her. The ARR storyline is merely reflecting the greater knowledge about them.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

why can't we have it? Because lot of people love to bash on 1.x and its uniqueness, :/

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We cant have i because the vitriol spewed by fanboys, telling people to leave, berating them for pointing out what was obviously wrong with the game filling forums up with praise for crappy game systems. Guess what, the people who were being told to take a hike did instead of sticking it out and you guys suffered for it by losing the game you liked so much.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

People seem to overlook Ramuh (and Shiva if she counts) when it comes to primals having a conscience or emotion. It's just that most of the Primals are very hostile.
Most Primals also never seem to care about their followers, so far the ones who do are Titan, Ramuh, Shiva and Ravana, maybe?

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Actually most of them kinda do, even if only implicitly through side content (see: Beast Tribe related quests).
It's just that some aren't outspoken about it (I recall Garuda calling the Ixali her children, for instance).

The only ones that didn't seem to care much about their followers are Leviathan (who outright consumed that one Sahagin priest when he became aether) or Bismarck (who's more of a wild beast that consumes anything almost indiscriminately).

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Actually most of them kinda do, even if only implicitly through side content (see: Beast Tribe related quests).
It's just that some aren't outspoken about it (I recall Garuda calling the Ixali her children, for instance).

The only ones that didn't seem to care much about their followers are Leviathan (who outright consumed that one Sahagin priest when he became aether) or Bismarck (who's more of a wild beast that consumes anything almost indiscriminately).

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Garuda and Ifrit don't either really.

Both use them for power, nothing more, nothing less. If they were to suddenly stop granting that, they'd become as hated as everything else. Incidentally, the ones they "love" are all fully tempered, so the only way they can lose them is through death.

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Originally Posted by Felis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laTHafKXMdU

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That fact that you can only point to one summoned Primal (ignoring for the moment Ysale and Thordan's self-summoning shenanigans) as an example is sort of the point, actually.