Are healers lazy or do some really live by "I only heal"?

Wow, you are complaining about healers that don't DPS? I am a BLM that has to heal about as much as I should be DPSing because most healers I run into aren't coordinated enough to heal let alone DPS and heal. Lets not be to hard on the simpletons, good healers are few and far in between in any game let alone a game they are expected to heal and DPS in.

When I am still learning content, I will stick to just healing. As this process progresses I pepper in my debuffs, and once I learn how hard everything hits, and boss AOE rotations I'll go full dps mode while still healing. I play whm almost exclusively and love fine tuning the stance dance. :)

I bet those non-DPS healers are just multitasking better than the OP.

You didn't think that when you play FF14, you have to ONLY play FF14, did you? :)

I am a scholar main. My job is NOT ONLY to heal, but to make the run as quick and smooth as possible. That is my obligation since I am playing with other people and their time is just as valuable as mine.

I think it's fine to focus on healing when you are learning a fight, or if you've got some jokers in your party who don't use cooldowns or can't avoid huge red circles. Anything else is laziness, lack of knowledge, or a lack of self-confidence. I can't speak for WHM or AST, but scholar has an incredible array of tools that can give you a lot of room to DPS. I see soo many people who don't use rouse off CD, don't use virus, don't use e4e, don't use deploy or emergency tactics, don't adlo+ss between pulls, don't swiftcast shadowflare to get slow up, I could go on and on.

If you feel like you /can't/ dps, start using ALL of your skills more liberally. You can hold a cooldown if you're about to start a boss fight, but "saving" stuff is a bad habit and you aren't helping the group.

My experience is that if the dps is doing their job right, then 1.) occasionally they take damage as well as the tank and b) my dps isn't really going to make a difference so i tend to just heal.

If it's an easy dungeon, then i dps of course, but to be honest, more often than not tanks are taking so much damage that i have to mostly heal or they'll die.

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Originally Posted by Cold_Raven

I bet those non-DPS healers are just multitasking better than the OP.

You didn't think that when you play FF14, you have to ONLY play FF14, did you? :)

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lol very true, I usually have the sound off and I watch something on my other monitor.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

My experience is that if the dps is doing their job right, then 1.) occasionally they take damage as well as the tank and b) my dps isn't really going to make a difference so i tend to just heal.

If it's an easy dungeon, then i dps of course, but to be honest, more often than not tanks are taking so much damage that i have to mostly heal or they'll die.

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If you think your dps isn't going to make a difference you either don't have a parser, or don't consider your time to have any value.

The problems is that Healers aren't obliged to DPS. If you have a healer that DPS, be happy my friend. If not, don't go kicking him or cursing in the party chat, just do your thing and let go.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

If I am 100% sure that I can spend time DPSing with 0% chance of someone dying, I will. If not, I'll just heal. DPS is a plus for my job, not one of my primary responsabilities.

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Pretty much my point of view. I'm a healer. I heal. If I can DPS then I will, but I should never be expected to DPS. We have 2 DPS in the party to fulfill that role. If things are slow it's on them and the size of the pulls the tank is bringing in. If you insist on pulling everything possible at one time then someone has to heal you through that since everything now hits way harder than at level 50, and hopefully the DPS can actually AoE pretty well. If things are slower and smaller I can pretty much let Selene just do her thing and DPS the whole dungeon though. Conversely as a tank I've had it with white mages because I'm apparently just a macro target for Benediction and Tetragrammaton in between their Holy/Assize/Stone III spam.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

HP means a bigger error margin for us healers, and it makes our life much easier.

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Word. Warriors are my biggest pet peeve with this. Dungeon starts off with them at ~20k HP so I kinda got an idea on how much damage they can take and how much healing they need. First big massive pull they're nearly dead seconds in and I have to fight to get their HP back closer to that 20k......then I see they dropped Defiance for Deliverance mid fight and lost 4000 HP, a self heal, and Inner Beast along with its damage reduction buff.

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Originally Posted by Staris

If you think your dps isn't going to make a difference you either don't have a parser, or don't consider your time to have any value.

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Technically a parser isn't allowed by the games TOS. I'd be careful about admitting you use one on the official forums.

What's with the people calling healers lazy when they only heal?
Why do I keep seeing this? Not only are we frozen to the screen without being allowed to look away one second, babysitting the dps who see a red telegraph and think they must stand in it, and watching over the tank who must have un-learned flash/foresight/rampart/etc, that we are expected to dps cause you don't like us standing there?
Hey, call us lazy if we don't esuna/leech you, call us lazy if we don't stoneskin/adlo, if we don't refresh protect... but you call us lazy cause we don't dps? We are HEALERS! You are not one to call out on us when we choose to only heal. Call us lazy when we don't fulfill our duty as healers, not when we don't give you the bonus.
"When I play healer I like to dps too and I don't understand the problem of others not doing it" well good for you and lucky your party! But everybody doesn't play the same, and nobody should judge and throw stones, you don't know the other person nor why he/she does it or doesn't do it. If they give you what is expected of their role, accept it and be happy.

"I only heal" when :(I do not trust the tank that likes standing in all the aoe for the whole dungeon or tank over pulls and I have to cure spam the tank... Trust is an issue. Being unfamiliar with a dungeon doesn't help my confidence to Dps safely. I enjoy doing some dps when I can.:) Healer rule Safety "cure" first! Dpsing second.

If a healer doesn't dps. ;x I just get out of my tanking stance and DPS in full STR gear after setting hate. Might as well increase your damage a bit if their going to contribute 0.

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Originally Posted by Seku

If a healer doesn't dps. ;x I just get out of my tanking stance and DPS in full STR gear after setting hate. Might as well increase your damage a bit if their going to contribute 0.

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Next thing you know, you're readibg a thread about paper tanks who go in full STR and they can't semi-afk watching Netflix while in the dungeon. :)

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Originally Posted by ShaneDawn

Next thing you know, you're readibg a thread about paper tanks who go in full STR and they can't semi-afk watching Netflix while in the dungeon. :)

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reading** about healers conplaining about paper tanks**

Phone.

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Originally Posted by ElanVelius

And here I thought I was just getting rotten luck or maybe I missed something from the last patch. Happens ALL THE TIME. Had one healer just jumping around staying at 90% mana the entire run because he only had to cast heal every 8-10s. Had another that was playing firefighter and casting his baby heal after every. single. attack. We could have easily cleared the place 4-5 minutes (read: 20-25%) faster if they had so much as put dots up and occasionally AoE'd

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If you're 20-25% faster just by having your healer deal damage, kick your DDs and find competent ones.

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Originally Posted by kazeandi

If you're 20-25% faster just by having your healer deal damage, kick your DDs and find competent ones.

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You do know that a good healer can deal close to same damage (and some cases even better) on packs of mobs than certain dps classes right? Their single target damage is not nearly as potent, but I've seen White Mages do huge numbers with Holy spam, and Scholars with Bane.

In an ideal world, everyone would contribute to the best of their abilities. However, we have a bunch of people who dgaf and play like "they want". That is why we have lazy healers, bad dps players and tanks afking easy content in full vit. It's usually not a l2p issue in easy content, but rather people being lazy/stubborn.

Not expecting everyone to be MLG, but you can see the slackers.

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Originally Posted by Seku

If a healer doesn't dps. ;x I just get out of my tanking stance and DPS in full STR gear after setting hate. Might as well increase your damage a bit if their going to contribute 0.

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What are you even meaning with "contribute 0"? They are already contributing by keeping you safe. Again, dps is not our main focus.

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Originally Posted by ShaneDawn

However, we have a bunch of people who dgaf and play like "they want". That is why we have lazy healers, bad dps players and tanks afking easy content in full vit. It's usually not a l2p issue in easy content, but rather people being lazy/stubborn.

Not expecting everyone to be MLG, but you can see the slackers.

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Lazy or slacking is when a healer doesn't buff or dispel, so basicly doesn't do what his job implies. And yes, everyone plays as they want. This is not a job or test where you supposed to be rated all the time. You have your opinion about how things should work, we have ours, and ours actually go with the job. I agree with you but I wouldn't include the term lazy or slacker when a healer doesn't dps.

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

What are you even meaning with "contribute 0"? They are already contributing by keeping you safe. Again, dps is not our main focus..

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You're contributing 0 to the DPS. More dps = mobs dead faster and in the case of WHM and holy you basically can make the tank invincible for a few seconds due to stun which is the best cure of all because they take...-drum rolls- a total of 0 damage, which translates into a mini Hollow Ground while taking off a good 10-15% of every mobs Health bar.

A tank is already contributing keeping you safe too, yet good ones don't turtle up because they know the extra VIT is a waste and how to manipulate CDs, unless their rolling with a flat out retarded or brand new low ilevel healer.

Lazy or slacking is when you're top off on MP and spamming cure to cure 2 when the tank is over half full on HP and no DPS is dying and thats when I drop shield oath and bust out the str accessories. :3 Because if you're not using that mp in a way that actually has a use (restoring hp and not over curing), means you're not working hard enough and all those cures are to waste, might as well make them useful.

And last thing, your perception on what the job "implies" is not what the job "is". Healers have attack spells. If SE did not want healers DPSing or have the option to DPS they would have not given them DPS spells that drastically can speed up runs. When SE gets rid of the attack options or make it to where those spells are 100% useless in a majority of current content (like 11), I'll accept the mantra of "Healers only heal."

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Originally Posted by ShaneDawn

You do know that a good healer can deal close to same damage (and some cases even better) on packs of mobs than certain dps classes right? Their single target damage is not nearly as potent, but I've seen White Mages do huge numbers with Holy spam, and Scholars with Bane.

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What is this madness!? Healers do good damage in AoE damage to run down trash packs of mobs and have the most impact on how fast a speed run goes due to a entirely new source of damage being added on!? Preposterous! (kidding)

Your last point I strongly will have to disagree. If SE wanted healers to actively and demandingly contribute to the dps on duties, they would have included their dps in their minimum damage in party calculations. And we know they didn't and won't. My perception on what the job healer implies is in the word itself. Healer = a guy that heals. Yes they have attack spells, and we could argue for hours on the propper use for them, may it be for solo purposes, or to help the party, either way there are optimizations which are controlled by the player himself and his willingness.

You might find a better use for those mp that don't seem to run low, but maybe the healer himself doesn't. As mentioned before, we have a diferent understanding of things and a diferent standard where your line of lazyness is lower than mine. But I will say this again, a healer's role and purpose is to heal and therefore I don't expect any less mor any more. Any less of that for me is lazy, any more is a bonus.
It's up to us all to perform our best or maybe not, depending on the importance given. Talking about myself, if the party has no danger and all is good, I will toss in my dps too, but I need to be sure the tank can hold the mobs alone for a bit and the dps dodge things. If I am on blm and my healer doesn't dps, it's fine, as long as stoneskins are going around and he is doing his job, I don't expect any more. If the party's dps is low and things just keep living forever, I certainly would not blame the healer for not dps'ing, I will look at the dps.

On a side note, and on this I completely agree with you guys. If I see a healer jumping around while the party is killing stuff and there is no danger and mp are good, I will call that guy lazy, cause obviously he is not panicking or glueing his eyes on the party menu maybe too shy or unsure to switch to cleric stance. Then definetly yes, LAZY!!!

To finish, guys, stop being so perfect, play and have fun. If there's a problem or something to be improved, tell your party members: are they ok? Do they have a young puppy claiming attention? Are they sad?Are they not on their main job and maybe unsure but need to practice? Maybe you miss the oportunity to meet someone great and you might not see him/her again. Just don't get grumpy if they don't perfom as best as they can.

Why doesn't everyone play exactly like I want them to? Hmmmmmm......maybe because they AREN'T YOU! You do realize this is a game, right? This isn't a job. You aren't the boss. You don't get to decide how other people play. Just like I don't get to dcecide how you play. You like to heal and DPS? You get a gold star. You're upset because the dungeon took five minutes longer than you think it should have? You may need to find a new form of recreation.

Have you ever considered solitaire?

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Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

Technically a parser isn't allowed by the games TOS. I'd be careful about admitting you use one on the official forums.

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Never said I had one, learn english.

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Originally Posted by Staris

Never said I had one, learn english.

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Learn manners.

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Originally Posted by Seku

If a healer doesn't dps. ;x I just get out of my tanking stance and DPS in full STR gear after setting hate. Might as well increase your damage a bit if their going to contribute 0.

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And then you die. Great choice, Mr. Tank.
A dungeon is supposed to be teamwork and everyone have their own duties in the team. Yours is lead the way and keep aggro. Mine is heal. If we can do better than that, fine, if not, hold your horses and play with the tune.

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And then you die. Great choice, Mr. Tank.

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Well, if a healer let's a tank die, especially if they are solely focusing on healing, rather than DPSing and other shenanigans, it speaks for itself. The tank stance helps reduce damage, but in expert roulette, a tank stance isn't going to make the night and day difference, and again, ESPECIALLY if the healer is solely focusing on healing.

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Originally Posted by Sareal

Well, if a healer let's a tank die, especially if they are solely focusing on healing, rather than DPSing and other shenanigans, it speaks for itself. The tank stance helps reduce damage, but in expert roulette, a tank stance isn't going to make the night and day difference, and again, ESPECIALLY if the healer is solely focusing on healing.

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Depending on the healer or the tank ilv, it DOES make a difference.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Depending on the healer or the tank ilv, it DOES make a difference.

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It does make a difference, it's just not that significant, at least not in this type of content. I personally disagree that a tank is going to die simply because he decides to switch into his STR accessories and into DPS stance. I've seen mediocre healers keep DPS alive through trash, without tanks. Unless you pull a ridiculous amount of trash, the lowest ilvl possible in the dungeon can still handle a tank going DPS mode pretty fairly. Trash won't hit for 5k each and even if they did hit for 5k, it's still only a 20% reduction, or 1/5 of extra damage if you prefer. The healer would have to be pretty bad / distracted to not be able to handle the damage being dished out.

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Originally Posted by Sareal

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Tanks usually pull everything till the next tornado/portal on Neverreap, for example. If an ilv145 tank goes into DPS instance + str gear and pull that much, he'll probably die if he isn't keeping strict control of his cooldowns and probably won't be able to keep hate too. But that's not the point in the thread. To be honest, if some tank/dps want so bad the healer to deal damage, they should go play a healer and dps whatever they want. It's ~NOT~ our primary responsability and will never be. If we want/feel confident enough, fine, if not, don't complain, because we're already doing our job by keeping the party alive and buffing.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

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I don't disagree with you, but I am disagreeing on the fact that you are saying a tank will die if they switch to DPS mode. I personally go in DPS mode 24/7 in expert roulette dungeons, I have never had problems. My damage intake is so low, watching the healer not do anything while I clemency myself for the laugh makes me wonder how bored they will get. As far as the topic, that's fine if you don't want to DPS and what not, but as far as I'm concerned, when I heal, I simply cannot just stand there and watch the health bar slowly drop, it's just boring to me. Plus, the extra damage I can do during that time is very welcomed.

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Originally Posted by Sareal

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Well, I see a lot of DK and Warriors on Neverreap (the dungeon I farm for eso) taking HUGE amounts of damage WHILE PULLING, they haven't even stopped to estabilish aggro and are already at 25% HP. And ~of course~ using Tetra when that happens get me aggro. Maybe I'm just unlucky, idk

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

And ~of course~ using Tetra when that happens get me aggro. Maybe I'm just unlucky, idk

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That seems awfully specific. I refuse to believe that this is how all of your runs goes, because it literally only takes 1 AoE from the tank to hold aggro from any kind of healing abilities, assuming they are pulling with their tank stances on. If they are pulling with their DPS stances on, they aren't very smart and simply don't know how to play their role. As a paladin, I can hold the aggro of an entire AoE pack by simply spamming Flash, and even just 1 flash will at least keep aggro from the healer until I pulled everything I intended to pull if they so decide to heal me during the "pull run"

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Originally Posted by Sareal

That seems awfully specific. I refuse to believe that this is how all of your runs goes, because it literally only takes 1 AoE from the tank to hold aggro from any kind of healing abilities, assuming they are pulling with their tank stances on. If they are pulling with their DPS stances on, they aren't very smart and simply don't know how to play their role. As a paladin, I can hold the aggro of an entire AoE pack by simply spamming Flash, and even just 1 flash will at least keep aggro from the healer until I pulled everything I intended to pull if they so decide to heal me during the "pull run"

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It is specific, and it is very common. My fairy has taken quite a few hits from stuff because of her programming. Tank health drops=cast heal. Suddenly a pile of stuff is all over her. It's not every run, but at least 2-3 times a week I have to deal with that kind of a tank.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

It is specific, and it is very common.

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I don't find it common, at least not when I heal. Specific, that is unarguable, because any kind of tanks that knows what they are doing won't lose the initial aggro to a heal unless the heal was cast at the very moment the pull was done, which the fairy will rarely ever do, since the HP of the tank has not yet dropped. Don't forget that this particular take on the topic of "tank dying because being in DPS stance" started because (continued)

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Originally Posted by Seku

If a healer doesn't dps. ;x I just get out of my tanking stance and DPS in full STR gear after setting hate. Might as well increase your damage a bit if their going to contribute 0.

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While it is common to find unskilled tanks, it is not specific to the point of generalizing that "DPS stance tank = Dead tank", it's more in the line of "Bad tank using DPS stance will cause these kinds of situations to happen", in which case, this is specific in the sense that you will find noobs in all and every roles. I just don't see how we should look at that specific situation simply because there are less skilled people than others.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

And then you die. Great choice, Mr. Tank.
A dungeon is supposed to be teamwork and everyone have their own duties in the team. Yours is lead the way and keep aggro. Mine is heal. If we can do better than that, fine, if not, hold your horses and play with the tune.

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And then I kick the healer due to the inability to use their curing abilities and call in an actual half way decent healer from my FC. :3

Mine is to lead the way and I shut down lazy healers and DPS. Period.

No one got time for 30 min+ runs like this is day 1, unless they brand new.

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

Your last point I strongly will have to disagree. If SE wanted healers to actively and demandingly contribute to the dps on duties, they would have included their dps in their minimum damage in party calculations.

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They did. See Salvage clears. The only reason it wasn't required of the healers through normal dungeons is due to the lack of enrage timers. But most DPS and Tanks would run out of TP / MP in fractal before the boss was down when first arriving there, unless the Healer aided in DPSing.

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

My perception on what the job healer implies is in the word itself. Healer = a guy that heals.

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I get that. But too many ways are around to keep the party alive and contribute to dps. Unless the tank sucks, the dps sucks, or either the healer or tank are new.

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

either way there are optimizations which are controlled by the player himself and his willingness.

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You mean lack of willingness to learn to press a few more buttons in easily seen circumstances, that can save everyone 5 minutes at minimal, instead of cure spamming for no reason. If the tank sucks and doesn't know their cool downs, I could then understand a bit.

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

But I will say this again, a healer's role and purpose is to heal and therefore I don't expect any less mor any more. Any less of that for me is lazy, any more is a bonus.

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Laziness (also called indolence) is a disinclination to activity or exertion despite having the ability to do so. There is the definition for you. I'll say it again. I understand if the tank sucks or DPS sucks or the healer is new. ;x But other than that if you're not DPSing, you're being lazy.

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

On a side note, and on this I completely agree with you guys. If I see a healer jumping around while the party is killing stuff and there is no danger and mp are good, I will call that guy lazy, cause obviously he is not panicking or glueing his eyes on the party menu maybe too shy or unsure to switch to cleric stance. Then definetly yes, LAZY!!!

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Good to know you actually agree with me.

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Originally Posted by Sareal

While it is common to find unskilled tanks, it is not specific to the point of generalizing that "DPS stance tank = Dead tank", it's more in the line of "Bad tank using DPS stance will cause these kinds of situations to happen", in which case, this is specific in the sense that you will find noobs in all and every roles. I just don't see how we should look at that specific situation simply because there are less skilled people than others.

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Was that for me? Because I was advocating tanking in STR gear and DPS stance. And yeah you will find noobs in all roles. Which is why I adjust myself to the players that are around me. If the healer is good enough to DPS, I'll do a mix of vit and str, so they don't have to worry about me. If they are just sitting on their mp and doing nothing, I'll go all out offensive to make up for them being lazy.

Healer does 25% of DPS damage? I'd say my single target is about 50% (equal or above bad DPS) and aoe can be even with DPS with few aoe tools. Seriously, it's a good boost to the party. This is based on my friend parsing our DF ex roulette / Alex NM runs (while I micromanage Eos, so heals are still going out).

These threads are so funny. As s healer I'm there to heal. DPS is optional and an added benefit. I'll dps if I choose to and there is nothing you can do to change that. I'm waiting for the person that comes into a dungeon and tells me how to do my job. You will get shut down very quickly. Trying to kick me would be even funnier because I'm always with friends lol. Let people play the way they want. It's not your place to try and control anyone. What you consider fun is not the same as everyone else.

Here's my thing, as a WHM main.

If I am in a dungeon with randoms, I'll focus on healing. About halfway through the dungeon (or sooner), I'll start DPSing, to get it going a little faster and to fill that downtime.

If I am in a dungeon with "my tank", I'll do a mixture, and even see how much I can DPS, because I know what to expect.

As a healer, you don't know what everyone is going to do. Is the tank going to do large pulls? Is he going to use his cooldowns efficiently? Are the dps going to pull aggro constantly? Are they going to avoid aoes? It's hard to tell initially. So when I don't know what to expect, I play it safe, until I see the pattern.

It's all about comfort level for me. I can't speak for everyone though. Maybe some really are lazy.

If any healer does not do DPS when there is no healing to be needed do not give them commendations. I never give comms to those people because they sit there and overheal my HP constantly >.>... They don't even know what mitigating abilities are.

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Originally Posted by Rolynot

don't require any healing for at least 4-5 seconds

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4 or 5 seconds is not really worth to dance. In that time, I get out 1 DoT and have to switch back. To much stress. To many times clecic didn't disabled after that short time, even if the button showed me, the CD is over.

You have to survive 20-30 seconds without any heal beside the HoTs. Than its worth to start DPSing. There are many tanks that are able to do this. If you are not, than you should not expect to get DPS by healers.

Learn to play your tank class first, before you are starting calling out others lazy.