You have enough casual/fluff content now, how about that endgame progression SEnix?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yshnal

In other games, most people raid because they're "forced" to do so, not having any other means of meaningful progression. Truth be told, the raiding community is the (vocal/passionate) minority there, as not everyone enjoys it as we do (regardless of our aproach for both loot-challenge-fun, and time investment). Most players just want to play the game, improve their characters, and even unfold the game's story, all in the somewhat living world of a game that "never ends" (MMOs). Usually, raiding is for them just the only alternative they have to achieve that, so they have to cope with it.

Over many years I've seen quite some requests of people asking for more small-team content as an alternative instead of fully focusing on raids, and with reason I must say. There has been an obsession in theme-parks over making their endgames fully raid-oriented disregarding any other kind of content, and that not only does not suit everyone's tastes, but ends being a bit weary for many others as well. There're many resons for that, starting with people's tastes, as I said, and ending with the dramas and/or drawbacks related to having to deal with more people, for example (the later is one of the reasons why I think that we won't see any hard content for more than 8 players). For these players, ARR is a breath a fresh air, as every patch brings them something else besides raids, raids, and more raids, even if they like them.

Personally, I find both Syrcus Tower and the new dungeon and hardmodes fun (and all the other quests too!), so these are all welcome as that's my main reason to play games. I can understand that those of you more "closed" to or centered in just raiding might not be happy at all with this approach, but you have to keep in mind that here it's numbers what matter. Yoshi-P chose this design direction about having the current balance over all kinds of content and not focusing a lot into hardcore raiding on every patch, and it seems that it's working for him and his company (regardless of the actual sub numbers).

---

10/10 post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alise

While I agree that currently after each group won T9, they barely log in anymore, and seem my friends not interest much of Ramuh either because they said level 100 item only. But I want to ask "who are you" to tell other that their argument are weak or bad? This is all simply opinion vs opinion.

---

Yeah I was quite surprised too. The FC that I am in is a hardcore FC that guns for Server firsts and have consecutively achieved them such as 1st Twintania and 1st+2nd Nael, but when I logged on Day 1 2.3 and said "so have we claimed server first Ramuh EX" and everyone was like uhhhhh haven't unlocked it, some went for crafting, some went to CT2 for glamours, most went straight for marks because they cannot be bothered with i100 gears lol.

I think if Ramuh EX drops i110 accessories, things would be different.

Personally I am enjoying CT2 and the new dungeons. More fun, pretty places, and the runs feels much more shorter and neater with some nice looking gears for glamour. Probably farming them first and try out marks and frontlines at a later stage. Should be some decent stuffs to do after the weekly T9 clears.

cut them some slack, they just released a new patch. More difficult content will be available in 2-3 months. Even when i've cleared 2nd coil i find that there's much to do in this new patch to catch up on sub/alt jobs.

edit: but i agree there needs to be alternative to coil for endgame gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TestSubject09

the most successful MMO on the market done Casual, Hardcore and PVP right and oh look... it peaked at 14 million SUBS ... whereas ... here... 2 million registrations with a brand like final fantasy.

---

Right, the MMO that has been out for almost 10 years. Pretty fucking unfair comparison, right?
Where do you think FFXIV will be in 10 years with the amount of content we'll be getting.

2 million subscriptions for a fairly new MMORPG is a hefty feat, considering how the majority of the market is drifting towards F2P, and nearly every recent subscription based MMO has completely failed and gone F2P,

You talk about others being delusional, but you are the only one coming across like that.

I hope they make cloud of darkness so hard that the elite players cry and say please nerf it, Just like in SOA expansion for FFXI I remember all the elite players were like boo hoo deal with it, they are making it for elite players and then when they all started to play.

They were like omg Square nerf it, it needs nerfing we arent that elite.

Second time I seen elites cry for something, because the 1st time is the same crap they are asking for now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HeroSamson

Second time I seen elites cry for something, because the 1st time is the same crap they are asking for now.

---

It's actually funny to see this occur; there's no pleasing these kinds of players. I honestly think the dev team is doing a really interesting job by adding both really simple content and then really hard content. But catering to both casual and hardcore players takes time to develop.

XI CoP was nerfed many years later as there were still people who were max level who could never complete it because they lacked the skill and perhaps even the time to do so (These guys eventually quit the game lol). Doubtful that it will ever happen since certain dev team members who had no real idea about MMOs are no longer responsible for the development, but I think they need to make something as brutally difficult for XIV as a mainstay for the game.

I love the fact, that they are adding all the new stuff. Due to my working hours, I've no chance to get into FC raiding team or even into a static, so anything more than like T4 will be hard to do in pugs. Yes, there is always something new for me - hunts, relic hunting, sighsteeing, crafting, maybe I'll just level few new jobs...

It's so much refreshing after some other games, that released patches like - 1 go for raiders, next one is for PVPers, next one for some QoL issues, and new content was released so very slowly (yes EA, you ruined the ToR, as there was nothing meaningful to do in anything after Oricon). I hope they will keep up, and release more stuff that for you is fluff, for me is main game content.

Of course that doesn't mean, that I'd like to see just a fluff. I totally understand OP and I hope he and other minded players will get their hardcore raiding dungeons, so they can enjoy this awesome game too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HeroSamson

I hope they make cloud of darkness so hard that the elite players cry and say please nerf it, Just like in SOA expansion for FFXI I remember all the elite players were like boo hoo deal with it, they are making it for elite players and then when they all started to play.

They were like omg Square nerf it, it needs nerfing we arent that elite.

Second time I seen elites cry for something, because the 1st time is the same crap they are asking for now.

---

Can't be worse than the dozens of times I've seen casuals destroy anything remotely challenging in every MMO they touch.

This is a game that can be played on both sides.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

Although i agree we need hard 24 man raids, the current end game is created for ppl that have LIFE. If u are raiding every day 8 h per day its ur fault for exhausting content faster than devs can make it.

---

we have a couple people in our turn 9 clear group, (11 clears so far!), who log on for 2 hours a week to raid and then log off.

For progression we only did 9 hours a week. (3 days 3 hours).

i110 and waiting for new content.

Maybe your just bad?

A couple thoughts:

1) 4-man zones could absolutely be as challenging as some raids, if done correctly. An example of this was the original Nizara in Everquest II. (Note that EQ2 has 6 player Dungeons, not 4 due to group size.) However, you would then run into the issue of needing specific classes for specific zones. (I've seen a lot of people upset about being excluded from Brayflox HM speedruns, so I don't think it's necessarily the way to go.)

2) Having both 8-man and 24-man versions of Coil would be a neat idea. You could do what you do in CT and instead of having 2 loot boxes per, you have 2 loot boxes per alliance. You could also add mechanics to the 24-man that require different sorts of coordination than the 8-mans. TOR did this well with 8 and 16-man raids.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Staris

we have a couple people in our turn 9 clear group, (11 clears so far!), who log on for 2 hours a week to raid and then log off.

For progression we only did 9 hours a week. (3 days 3 hours).

i110 and waiting for new content.

Maybe your just bad?

---

Exactly. The old and overly used no life excuse died years ago and anyone who as raided endgame in this and other MMO before can tell you that a decent chunk of people who raided with them would log in to get ready for the raid then log out after said raid was done, repeating this weeks after weeks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TestSubject09

Wildstar just released for example....

---

go play wildstar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MythToken

go play wildstar

---

You know I see people say things like that, and people who think that game is going to keep up the pace of releasing content. I suspect it won't. Even if it did I hate the art style of the game and won't play it.

I love this game, I personally don't expect them to release content any faster and it doesn't bother me, I can do other stuff in the meantime GASP. But I understand why people want content faster and why they get frustrated at pointless fluff content.

I do think the first game that solves this by thinking outside the box will be very successful. For example a small part of the solution could be allowing you to bring more/less people to a raid and it changes the reward (but not the encounter). You bring more people = no/less loot (Lets people experience the encounters and practice and teach). You bring less people = more/better loot (Lets min maxers toy with comps and strats, and allows outdated content to be run to catch players up with less effort.

However, they always stick to the same system :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Staris

You know I see people say things like that, and people who think that game is going to keep up the pace of releasing content. I suspect it won't. Even if it did I hate the art style of the game and won't play it.

---

Wildstar is a gimmick.

It is using an age old method called extreme grind lockout to prevent players from clearing it's endgame content. Endgame is placed behind so many barriers and grinds that most players literally can not even access it yet. They can legitimately boast that the player base is not clearing the content (and thus their releases are keeping up with the end game players) but in the end it will only cause the majority player to quit as they can't even participate. The amount of content released will match that of any other MMO and they will simply PO the playerbase as the barriers continue going forward.

There is nothing special going on there...

At least with the release of this game we were given the choice to walk into coil when you felt like it regardless of what you were wearing (more or less till DF popped in).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Codek

Wildstar is a gimmick.

It is using an age old method called extreme grind lockout to prevent players from clearing it's endgame content. Endgame is placed behind so many barriers and grinds that most players literally can not even access it yet. They can legitimately boast that the player base is not clearing the content (and thus their releases are keeping up with the end game players) but in the end it will only cause the majority player to quit as they can't even participate. The amount of content released will match that of any other MMO and they will simply PO the playerbase as the barriers continue going forward.

There is nothing special going on there...

At least with the release of this game we were given the choice to walk into coil when you felt like it regardless of what you were wearing (more or less till DF popped in).

---

LoTRO during the Mines of Moria expansion did the a similar gating which was called Radiance. It was a stats that was linked to a piece of gear and you needed a full set of (5 if my memory serves me right)radiance pieces to be able to go challenge the Watcher in the water. To gain them, you had to achieve special objectives during dungeons with each dungeons awarding one piece of the set. Doing this was to make sure people who learn to play their class properly in a challenging group setting. There was a huge (and that's an understatement) outcry about this on the forums by the casual player base, that it was unfair that such an iconic monster was gated and all that stuff. Radiance lasted for awhile but eventually, Turbine caved in and remove radiance which meant that everyone and their mother could access the content. Do you know what happened ? People got destroyed by the Watcher so hard that the whole fight got nerf terribly hard making it terribly boring for endgame raiders and still too hard for the majority of the casual player base until much later (a.k.a people going to kill him an expansion later).

While extreme gating isn't the best of ideas, there is a reason some form of gating exists and why it's necessary to a degree. Not everyone should have the right to enter any instance they want while wearing whatever they want. It's not good at all for the game balance.

I have a hard time finding the time to play this game, so casual stuff is fine with me.

Sadly most "casual" stuff in this game are so utterly bad at rewards that you have to play hardcore style weeks on weeks on weeks to get those casual events to get you what less time in dungeons get you. I'm not sure why casual has got to mean "for massive grinding". Why isn't casual content stuff like a repeatable 1 time a month quest that gives you a hefty reward? Like do it once a month and get a piece of relic armor. Or how about a once a week quest for a free atma of your choice? You know, casual rewards for people who do not grind every day.

I agree with everything but special stats. Please no special stats. Please no illusion of choice. Please no being ahead of the devs and finding broken stat combos every patch. Please no "you don't have this build I read on BG so you're getting kicked." Please no having to use the stats the the devs used to balance the content in their office because that's probably what the fights will be balanced around. Please no special stats.

Ok...I want to add something here. Before I start let me say that I have completely enjoyed the new content. I have a gf and a full time job where I work any where from 50-80 hours a week. Yet despite that I find the time to play this game. I am currently working on SCoB and have cleared T6 and T7. I have all but 2 jobs level 50, and all but 3 crafting/gathering classes at level 50.

I think the point of the OP is that we are adding new content for casual players (which is fine) but they have yet to complete the current content. Someone said earlier that there should be equality and you have to appease both the masses. If I release two new dungeons one for hardcore and another for casuals. Then in reality I'm release 1 dungeon for hardcore and 2 dungeons for casuals. Casuals will eventually get to a point where they can complete the newer dungeon. Turn 5 for example... when released the maximum gear level was ilvl90 (i95 for allagan weapon) and there was no echo buff. Since then we now have ilvl110 gear. If you can't complete turn 5 you can still obtain ilvl100 gear from soldiery tokens. Additionally, there is a 20% echo buff. You HAVE content. Turn 5 is still content for casual players. If you are not yet skill enough to beat the turn, practice it more with friends, or do other content until they give you an even larger handicap. For end-game raider the ONLY content they are getting (for progression sake) is when a new coil (or other raid) is released.

I feel that the more casual players are being extremely selfish and one-sided. If I add a new raid dungeon then you complain that they are not giving you anything new...yet you still haven't completed the old progression stuff? Again...I'm not saying we shouldn't release both dungeons but I wanted to point out a serious flaw in many of your arguments. I think new end-game content should be their top priority when implementing new dungeons. As they implement new dungeons make older content will become easier with better gear. Therefore as it becomes easier you receive new content as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

Although i agree we need hard 24 man raids, the current end game is created for ppl that have LIFE. If u are raiding every day 8 h per day its ur fault for exhausting content faster than devs can make it.

---

There are 4 raid events.

Each has a raid timer of ~11 minutes. Lets say trash + loot + whatever takes another 9 per turn to make it an even 20 minutes.

20x4 = 80

1 hour 20 minutes of content per week.

Even if you raided as little as 3 1.5 hour (full instance) nights a week you could, with a team of actual raiders, clear all this content by now no problem.

1 hour 20 minutes is all time people who have lives have a week? Between work, family, and being in grad school I have more than that. Please don't try this excuse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dwill

Exactly. The old and overly used no life excuse died years ago and anyone who as raided endgame in this and other MMO before can tell you that a decent chunk of people who raided with them would log in to get ready for the raid then log out after said raid was done, repeating this weeks after weeks.

---

^ Truth. Because that is what MMOs have become in recent years (past 10ish). "Oh your raid ready? Well then there is no point in you logging in unless it's raid time"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TestSubject09

Why don't I poke my own eyes on then play... or play one handed.... or play like I can't turn left....

Again more assumptions, infact I enjoy the easier content. I'm jsut pointing out the elephant in the room.

I've been met with nothing but assumptions from people who seem to think that "hardcore content" is a dirty word.... and yet I'm the one on a "high horse" ... never did I say its more important, I said its equally as important and has recieved very little attention since release, this is a fact.

Its also a fact that most successful MMOs do cater to both. and potential is being wasted here.

---

all of your comments clearly state how you are hating this stuff, you have not once complimented anything at all just keep pointing out flaws and talking about how other
mmos are doin it better tbh your bein the one hypocritcal here, my god its infuriating seeing ppl like you on the dam forums who moan and cry every fricken patch, for gods sake just stop, if you dont like it dont play it, youve made your point so just move on, look ok im sry the end game content was too easy for you and you plowed thru it. not everyone has completed it. just relax take a breather go lay thos other mmos that you have ben doin nothin but complimenting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xenosuke1

all of your comments clearly state how you are hating this stuff, you have not once complimented anything at all just keep pointing out flaws and talking about how other
mmos are doin it better tbh your bein the one hypocritcal here, my god its infuriating seeing ppl like you on the dam forums who moan and cry every fricken patch, for gods sake just stop, if you dont like it dont play it, youve made your point so just move on

---

People are just taking a page out of the super casual's playbook "rule #1 of getting whatever you want. Cry an yell loud enough"

Seemed to work fine once since it turned MMOs from multiplayer challenges into single player Dora the Explorer The Game

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xenosuke1

and here we go with the usual remark "getting whatever you want. Cry an yell loud enough" look again if you dont like it dont play it, if it was as easy as it is and was such a handout then tell me why have 60-80% not beat t9 hell most havnt even gotten past t5,

---

Because they spend more time crying and less time trying?

For those who can't manage "move when giant symbols of different colors appear over my head" I will provide a step by step guide to Turn 5 for all melee dps.
Hell for arguments sake lets go through T5 as a melee dps in clip notes form.

Step 1: Tanks engage pick one of the adds and do your rotation until it dies.
Step 2: move to another add and repeat.
Step 3: move to the last add and repeat.
Step 4: move to Twintania and do your rotation
Step 5: Collar piece falls off. Hold until someone gets a red triangle over their head. If you go to step 6a. If not go to step 6b.
Step 6a: Move to designated fireball drop point (likely a pile of pets/OT or a stack of dps on your assigned side)
Step 6b: Move to Twintania and continue your rotation.
Step 6: Blue circle goes out on someone's head. If you go to step 7a. If not go to 7b.
Step 7a: Move under twintania in the middle of her target ring.
Step 7b: Take a couple steps back to ensure you do not end up inside conflag. Target and dps conflag once it appears.
Step 8: DPS conflag until someone gets a red triangle over their head. If you go to step 9a. If not go to step 9b.
Step 9a: Move to designated fireball drop point (likely a pile of pets/OT or a stack of dps on your assigned side)
Step 9b: Continue dpsing conflag until it dies.
Step 10: Once conflag is dead go back to dpsing Twin.
Step 11: Blue circle goes out on someone's head. If you go to step 12a. If not go to 12b.
Step 12a: Move under twintania in the middle of her target ring.
Step 12b: Take a couple steps back to ensure you do not end up inside conflag. Target and dps conflag once it appears. This is a short conflag pop short burns and dps conflag until it dies.
Step 13: repeat Steps 6-12 until a 2nd collar piece drops.
Step 14: Move to divebomb position (designated before pull)
Step 15: When green circle appears (or if you have Twin on focus as soon as she appears back on focus target) run forward 10 steps.
Step 16: Move back to divebomb position.
Step 17: Repeat steps 15 and 16 two more times.
Step 18: Target large snake in middle and while positioning at divebomb position dps for 45 seconds.
Step 19: Repeat steps 15 and 16 two more times while continuing to dps large snake.
Step 20: Repeat step 15 but this time continue running forward following the tanks and dpsing the large snake.
Step 21: Kill large snake. (don't worry about small snakes Mr. Melee the casters will handle them)
Step 22: stand in one of the previously dropped collar pieces until Twin finishes her cast.
Step 23: Attack Twin until she begins to cast Twister.
Step 24: Once twister begins casting run without crossing your own or anyone elses path until cast finishes.
Step 25: Go back to dpsing Twin while avoiding any green markers on the ground you may see.
Step 26: Dreadknight will spawn in the middle of the room. Run away from it until it has picked its target. If you go to step 27a. If not go to 27b.
Step 27a: Your stun locked. Enjoy the break to regen some TP and cheer your fellow dps on for keeping you from dying a horrible death.
Step 27b: One of your friends is stun locked!!!! Shoulder Tackle or Jump to that mean Dreadknight and kill it before your poor friend meets an untimely death.
Step 28: Repeat steps 23-27 until the final piece of collar drops.
Step 29: No more of those annoying twisters or Dreadknights! DPS twintania to victory! If she starts shooting fireballs at you see Step 30.
Step 30: FIRE RUN!!!!!!! (until it stops at least then back to Step 29!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarzak

People are just taking a page out of the super casual's playbook "rule #1 of getting whatever you want. Cry an yell loud enough"

Seemed to work fine once since it turned MMOs from multiplayer challenges into single player Dora the Explorer The Game

---

They can't handle their own medicine. Who would have thought?

I am sick of coil. I am sick of it continually making other aspects of the game trivial. If the only rabbit out of their hat is 8 man clunkers, I won't be staying interested.

I want something different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xenosuke1

all of your comments clearly state how you are hating this stuff, you have not once complimented anything at all just keep pointing out flaws and talking about how other
mmos are doin it better tbh your bein the one hypocritcal here, my god its infuriating seeing ppl like you on the dam forums who moan and cry every fricken patch, for gods sake just stop, if you dont like it dont play it, youve made your point so just move on, look ok im sry the end game content was too easy for you and you plowed thru it. not everyone has completed it. just relax take a breather go lay thos other mmos that you have ben doin nothin but complimenting.

---

I agree, not everyone's completed the end game content. But here's the kicker, no matter how long you wait before you add new content, not everyone who wants to will have completed but here's a fun fact: that content doesn't disappear! So if new content is added, you can still do it while people who have completed the previous one can move on. People who have coil on farm and already have CT2 on farm have at the very best 3 to 4 hours of content top to raid. That's literally one night of raiding while people who don't like raiding gets to enjoy their own playstyle for hours upon end.

Honestly, telling raiders to just shut up and stop whining is quite the hypocrite, selfish and egocentric statement to say. You guys have plenty to do already and Square Enix adding actual endgame progression isn't going to prevent you from doing what you already are and will give people with a diffrent but legitimate playstyle than you to do something they enjoy as well.

I'm going to put this simply: Savage Coil exists. It is the 'endgame'. There is nothing harder, and it's new this patch.

If it doesn't sate you because you would rather a drastically different style of challenge than an 8-man dungeon be the current 'ultimate challenge', then sure, I can get behind that.

If it doesn't sate you because it has no new iLvl attached to it, then you're not actually here for the endgame you claim to be here for - you're just here for the numbers attached to the game. In which case, I don't think it would matter what SE does - you'll always end up complaining there's nothing to do eventually, because at some point, you cap the numbers. XIV is not designed to be a game that you spend two years just reaching level cap in, it will almost certainly never be that kind of game, and that's the game you want.

I've been playing this game rather casually, which usually isn't my style. I enjoy the casual content of the game along with coil. Still, Coil is too short, even for my group that has yet to clear turn 9. It's correct that there's too much focus on 4 man dungeons every patch rather than adding new 8 man content. I do believe we'll see at least one hard mode 24 man dungeon when the patch hits that lets us queue with 24 people. That being said, it will also most likely be rehashed content.

One of the best raids I have ever done was Ulduar in WoW. For the most part the instance was challenging but casual. However, almost every boss had a trigger that activated its hard mode, with 0 Light Yogg-Saron being one of the hardest fights the game had (until new content came out and brought new gear). And then there was the optional boss you could only do after downing every hard mode. Then WoW went to the "set your difficulty before you enter" method and the game just wasn't as fun. S/E has done well with making some interesting, albeit scripted, fights. Adding interesting hard mode triggers wouldn't just be something they'd be good at, but a good way to make even numbered patches work for both the casual and hardcore player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TestSubject09

Blah blah blah... other games... blah blah blah... other mmos... blah blah blah... 11 pages of talking about other mmos and saying how successful they are in every post i make yet I won't just go play those ones

---

I fixed it for you ^_^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garlyle

I'm going to put this simply: Savage Coil exists. It is the 'endgame'. There is nothing harder, and it's new this patch.

---

Since your reading skill must be very low.. Let me explain.

The post asks for MORE content.

Savage REPLACES normal.

2.2 you could do 4 events a week

2.3 you can do 4 events a week.

4 = 4

4 is in fact not greater than 4

We haven't INCREASED the amount of relevant raid content since the game re-released.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarzak

Since your reading skill must be very low.. Let me explain.

The post asks for MORE content.

Savage REPLACES normal.

2.2 you could do 4 events a week

2.3 you can do 4 events a week.

4 = 4

4 is in fact not greater than 4

We haven't INCREASED the amount of relevant raid content since the game re-released.

---

if raiders choose to to partake in any of the content outside of raiding they don't have to but they really shouldn't complain about lack of content. More raid content wanted, sure go for it. Just don't detract from the current development cycle to do so. Raiders not getting a new raid every patch means they don't raid. Casuals not getting anything for a patch means unsubs and thus no development funds for new content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

if raiders choose to to partake in any of the content outside of raiding they don't have to but they really shouldn't complain about lack of content. More raid content wanted, sure go for it. Just don't detract from the current development cycle to do so. Raiders not getting a new raid every patch means they don't raid. Casuals not getting anything for a patch means unsubs and thus no development funds for new content.

---

So "paying customers are free to make suggestions so long as no one changes anything." Gotcha

I don't even like coil, and I still think it is too much the focus for high end content. Too much of progression and highest rewards is focused on this tiny series of raids. I'd feel a lot better if said high end content was not just in hard coil, but hard hunts, fates, hests, crafting. Spread the difficulty, and the bounty that comes in clearing it, to other aspects of the game.

Blah blah blah endless complaining. Every patch isn't going to be for everyone, get over it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarzak

We haven't INCREASED the amount of relevant raid content since the game re-released.

---

What exactly are Syrcus Tower's drops then? Swiss cheese? 'Cause last I checked Oil of Time still makes several best-in-slot equips, and so do Sands of Time which are to be added as rewards there in 2.35-ish. If that was the actual point of the original post, then for once 2.3 is actually the first patch to add an alternative to earning rewards on the same tier as the present Coil rewards.

But no, reading what the OP posted later, they really do seem less interested in what the content is or how much of it there is - just whether or not it has a shiny new item level upgrade, because otherwise it doesn't matter because it's not progression, and if your only interest is whether or not your gear numbers are raising, I will still stand by it - XIV is not going to be your game ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dwill

I agree, not everyone's completed the end game content. But here's the kicker, no matter how long you wait before you add new content, not everyone who wants to will have completed but here's a fun fact: that content doesn't disappear! So if new content is added, you can still do it while people who have completed the previous one can move on. People who have coil on farm and already have CT2 on farm have at the very best 3 to 4 hours of content top to raid. That's literally one night of raiding while people who don't like raiding gets to enjoy their own playstyle for hours upon end.

Honestly, telling raiders to just shut up and stop whining is quite the hypocrite, selfish and egocentric statement to say. You guys have plenty to do already and Square Enix adding actual endgame progression isn't going to prevent you from doing what you already are and will give people with a diffrent but legitimate playstyle than you to do something they enjoy as well.

---

I think people need to understand what a goal implies. If the devs/Yoshi-P have a goal for universal fun as a priority, you're definitely in the wrong part of the gaming world if you're hoping for a lot of focus on endgame raids. A lot of players do want this universal fun more than they want purely endgame raiding. Would you prefer a couple turns of Coil over housing? Would you prefer another endgame raid over Gold Saucer? If you said "yes" to any of that, you're on a downward spiral to disappointment if you stay here. You just wouldn't be part of the overall intended audience for this game.

That's not to say they won't do things to cater to the endgame raider mentality, as is evident by their introduction of Extreme modes and Coil difficulty. It's just not their overall focus, nor is it going to be for the foreseeable future. If you crave the endgame raids over other universal content by a huge margin, as in you'd quit the game if they continued down the path they're currently set on, you're better off with more established games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine

if raiders choose to to partake in any of the content outside of raiding they don't have to but they really shouldn't complain about lack of content. More raid content wanted, sure go for it. Just don't detract from the current development cycle to do so. Raiders not getting a new raid every patch means they don't raid. Casuals not getting anything for a patch means unsubs and thus no development funds for new content.

---

Lessening the 4 mans that get implemented and then abandoned to a roulette the next patch isn't detracting from the development cycle. There's casual LFR CT in odd numbered patches. Rather than introduce 3 new 4 mans and instantly make the previous 3 4 mans irrelevant while Coil still is relevant, they could implement a shorter 8 man instance with CT. How often do you go back to do Wanderer's Palace or Pharos Sirius compared to how often do you queue for old Coil? There's plenty of PF's looking for people for old Coil farming even with the DF of it. Content that requires some thought process brings more community to the game than entering a DF, not saying a word other than "hello", and speed clearing a 4 man. Raid content is longer lasting than dungeon content and a better investment than 4 mans that are finished in 30 minutes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CYoung187

Blah blah blah endless complaining. Every patch isn't going to be for everyone, get over it.

---

No patch has been for raiders. Every patch they INCREASE the amount of casual content. We haven't seen an increase in relevant raid content yet.

Relevant raid content

-Coil 6-9 (4 events)

Relevant casual content

1. Hunts
2. Relic
3. Dungeons (11 to choose from for your soldiery farming needs)
4. CT (4 events)
5. Primals (3 now for ilvl 100?)

And the kicker... They don't even need to do the raid content to get 110 gear now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarzak

We haven't INCREASED the amount of relevant raid content since the game re-released.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garlyle

What exactly are Syrcus Tower's drops then? Swiss cheese? 'Cause last I checked Oil of Time still makes several best-in-slot equips, and so do Sands of Time which are to be added as rewards there in 2.35-ish. If that was the actual point of the original post, then for once 2.3 is actually the first patch to add an alternative to earning rewards on the same tier as the present Coil rewards.

But no, reading what the OP posted later, they really do seem less interested in what the content is or how much of it there is - just whether or not it has a shiny new item level upgrade, because otherwise it doesn't matter because it's not progression, and if your only interest is whether or not your gear numbers are raising, I will still stand by it - XIV is not going to be your game ever.

---

CT is casual content not raid content. All CT does is make raiding a near pointless venture just like it was pre 2.2

First patch to add an alternative? Since it now appears you also have goldfish memory lets think back to Coil 1-5... drops ilvl 90 gear.What did myth (the group currency) give? Oh right ilvl 90 gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarzak

CT is casual content not raid content. All CT does is make raiding a near pointless venture just like it was pre 2.2

---

Are you raiding for the gear/progression, or for the difficulty?

If to you, raiding means getting onto the best gear you can get, you now have CT2 as an additional piece of content to undertake each week.
If to you, raiding is about tackling a challenge, you have Savage Coil as a challenge to face down, regardless of whether it "takes the same attempt slot" as existant content or not.

Frankly, whichever definition you take, there you are.

If you're dissatisfied that Savage Coil doesn't give you new gear in return for its challenge that's a completely different argument.

Quote:

---

First patch to add an alternative? Since it now appears you also have goldfish memory lets think back to Coil 1-5... drops ilvl 90 gear.What did myth (the group currency) give? Oh right ilvl 90 gear.

---

2.0 can't be counted as patch and myth as an alternative was present immediately, not added in a patch. If you're going to try to get me on a technicality, here's one right back.

And now if you'll excuse me, sleep calls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garlyle

Are you raiding for the gear/progression, or for the difficulty?

If to you, raiding means getting onto the best gear you can get, you now have CT2 as an additional piece of content to undertake each week.
If to you, raiding is about tackling a challenge, you have Savage Coil as a challenge to face down, regardless of whether it "takes the same attempt slot" as existant content or not.

Frankly, whichever definition you take, there you are.

If you're dissatisfied that Savage Coil doesn't give you new gear in return for its challenge that's a completely different argument.

2.0 can't be counted as patch and myth as an alternative was present immediately, not added in a patch. If you're going to try to get me on a technicality, here's one right back.

---

That is EXACTLY the point. we still after almost a year only have FOUR relevant raid targets per week. Savage did nothing to change that.

If you want to throw out technicalities it was patch 2.0 The original game came out years ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

So "paying customers are free to make suggestions so long as no one changes anything." Gotcha

I don't even like coil, and I still think it is too much the focus for high end content. Too much of progression and highest rewards is focused on this tiny series of raids. I'd feel a lot better if said high end content was not just in hard coil, but hard hunts, fates, hests, crafting. Spread the difficulty, and the bounty that comes in clearing it, to other aspects of the game.

---

I'm not saying I completely disagree with you; I actually partially agree. More difficultly overall would likely cause a sub loss on SE's part, and at the end of the day, Square Enix is a business (FFXIV is their cash cow atm). Making decisions based on opinions of the upper 1-2% would result in a revenue loss, and the last time I checked, Squeenix is not a 501(c)(3). They are making sure the player-base is happy overall, and overtly difficult content isn't applicable to most.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarzak

That is EXACTLY the point. we still after almost a year only have FOUR relevant raid targets per week. Savage did nothing to change that.

---

I'll be frank - that's going to happen with raids. In everything. That's the way bleeding edge top of the pile content works. If we're going to define raiding by difficulty, which I'm going to assume based on the refusal of Syrcus Tower, then there's always only going to be a small amount of that content, and there will always be players up there, because the moment something new comes along ready for them, the stuff below is obsolete. Whether that takes the form of four smaller 8-man trials or one long 24-man it won't change the fact that "well I've done that ultimate challenge, now what am I supposed to do?"

I said it in the first place - so long as XIV is not a game where efforts are designed to take years to complete, there will always be that crowd - and that crowd will always be dissatisfied, because the bleeding edge of challenge will only ever be a small fraction of content. And XIV is not designed to be that game, and I'm pretty sure it never will be.