White Raven earring given out at The Rising event 2018

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Originally Posted by technole

Get over yourself.

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It's a little concerning that you're so worked up over the earrings when your join date puts you as someone who did not even start in 1.0.

That's even more baffling than those complaining who did play back in 1.0. For the record, I don't even plan to use the earrings. I'll be throwing them in my armoire at the first opportunity. I did, however, appreciate the fact that the development team wanted to give players who starts in 2.0 and beyond a little taste of 1.0.

It's a real shame that they were essentially coerced into apologising. They did nothing wrong and some of the loudest voices were driven by entitlement and a selfish desire to be 'exclusive' whilst others were getting outraged on behalf of the vocal minority and completely ignoring the 1.0 players who spoke up and said they had no issue with the move.

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Originally Posted by technole

It's not clinging to an item, it's being able to trust the developers to keep their word that when they say something was exclusive, it stays that way.

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As far as I know they didn't say the earrings would be exclusive to 1.0, but that they wouldn't be obtainable in ARR...and well we got them in SB. Do correct me if I'm wrong though.

SE should have had better foresight and renamed the earrings. I do understand how them not being in any way different to the originals being somewhat upsetting.

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Originally Posted by technole

Second, the fact they even recycled an old item, which has nothing to do with what the event really entails is also disturbing. Lets just make a quest and find something so we can waste little development time as possible for celebrating five years.

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I personally think this is a far bigger issue than what this thread tries to be about. The earrings look cool...but they kind of have nothing to do with the event other than being something from 1.0, which is a tenuous link at best in this case. It does seem like lazy design for something marking the 5th anniversary.

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Originally Posted by technole

Get over yourself.

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Some of the 1.0 players in this thread need to be told exactly this. It's pretty insulting when they keep calling themselves the true supporters of the game.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's a little concerning that you're so worked up over the earrings when your join date puts you as someone who did not even start in 1.0.

That's even more baffling than those complaining who did play back in 1.0. For the record, I don't even plan to use the earrings. I'll be throwing them in my armoire at the first opportunity. I did, however, appreciate the fact that the development team wanted to give players who starts in 2.0 and beyond a little taste of 1.0.

It's a real shame that they were essentially coerced into apologising. They did nothing wrong and some of the loudest voices were driven by entitlement and a selfish desire to be 'exclusive' whilst others were getting outraged on behalf of the vocal minority and completely ignoring the 1.0 players who spoke up and said they had no issue with the move.

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Does your troll handbook say to use the words "vocal minority" in every post?

Decent bait otherwise, keep up the good work. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's a little concerning that you're so worked up over the earrings when your join date puts you as someone who did not even start in 1.0.

That's even more baffling than those complaining who did play back in 1.0. For the record, I don't even plan to use the earrings. I'll be throwing them in my armoire at the first opportunity. I did, however, appreciate the fact that the development team wanted to give players who starts in 2.0 and beyond a little taste of 1.0.

It's a real shame that they were essentially coerced into apologising. They did nothing wrong and some of the loudest voices were driven by entitlement and a selfish desire to be 'exclusive' whilst others were getting outraged on behalf of the vocal minority and completely ignoring the 1.0 players who spoke up and said they had no issue with the move.

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Given how infrequently we hear from SE when stuff blows up on the forums, I don't think they were "coerced" into replying... they instead acknowledged a mistake was made and they will be thinking twice before reintroducing exclusive 1.0 items without considering the players who own and still value them. I don't think that's unreasonable. They're not promising to rename the new stuff or revoke it all right away or never put 1.0 stuff into the game again... just saying they will be more mindful about how they go about it in the future.

People wanting trophies and tokens that they can show off for special feats is far, far older than XIV. It's also not entitlement to want to keep something that was hard-earned rare and special. I would have agreed with you about people needing to get over themselves if we got "Replica White Raven" earrings but we got the real deal for dying a bunch in some FATEs when the people who originally earned them went through hell and back right before the servers shut down for good. That's not cool and it's understandable that the people who put in the time and effort are miffed. It's nice to see there are people who don't mind sharing their cool stuff but for those who believed SE would keep their word about the item's exclusivity, breaking it leaves sour feelings (and the bad PR of "SE broke a promise to the most dedicated players" is probably the REAL reason they replied, honestly). They have every right to be vocal about it.

Throwing a tantrum over silly earrings. There goes the myth that legacy players support this game.

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Originally Posted by Miste

You are painting other people in whatever colour your opinion thinks they should be no matter what the actual truth is or bothering to discuss with them to find out why they might feel the way they do. You are basically saying "you have this opinion so you must be this or that", pretty basic form of prejudice.

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Coming from someone who claimed that people are just envious of those who have "an achievement that they don't", this is an interesting statement.

No. What I'm basically saying is that I can't agree with the attitude of "I don't want anyone else to have this because I want to remain exclusive". You might approve of it, of course; I personally don't and that's not going to change.

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It is just your opinion that people just want to feel exclusive and special, it is just your opinion that they want things that no one else owns.

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I don't think that's a matter of opinions. This whole matter has become so big because some people didn't want others to get an item that they value, period. Feel free to romanticize everyone's personal reasons, but it won't change that simple detail.

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You claim you hate the drama surrounding this whole thing, but you are participating in it and your last two posts in here are simply stirring the pot as well, so it is pretty pointless and hypocritical to try to complain about something you are actively doing yourself.

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Um, I apologize if I offended you in any way, But I think you're somehow trying to twist and turn the focus of the real conflict that happened here, putting the blame on the people who disapprove of it. It wasn't me who made Yoshida apologize; I merely stated my disappointment about the fact.

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I simply suggested they be called replicas because it makes logical sense and both sides get what they want.

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And I don't disagree with this. Sounds like a good middle ground (?)
Doesn't change the fact that all this drama was sparked over the wish to remain exclusive and not share something with the rest of the community, which, as I said, is not a mindset I'm a fan of. I can usually ignore it, but seeing Yoshida apologize over something I don't consider a right attitude, and then seeing some players reply to him with a very condescending tone... well, it made me want to leave a small pull of ears here.

I don't believe I'll need to share my opinion on this matter again.

I don't really care too much about the main discussion going on in this thread, I just had to post to say this, cause this is the thread it was posted in.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Others have asked for the story alone to be told on a DVD or in a book, but as I've already mentioned, the plot was plagued with issues, and as I took the liberty of ignoring certain points of lore, it suffers from numerous inconsistencies. I think it's fair to say that it worked precisely because─as the rebirth was described at its unveiling─it was a "once-in-a-lifetime experience" that marked the end of an era.

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As someone who has spent a very large amount of time trawling the internet and Youtube to find bits of text regarding the storyline of FFXIV 1.0, this is terrible! I've seen what I believe to be most of the cutscenes following the main storyline of 1.X, but being just the cutscenes, there are fairly large gaps between sequences at times that don't make sense without the context of the quests in between. I would have liked to know everything that was said to make sense of what was there, despite being "shambles". A book or a DVD would've shown me everything I want to know, and would still like for one to happen. I've greatly enjoyed it when I can make connections between the same characters in 1.x and 2.x.

Though I suppose at least that little bit about forcing the 1.0 storyline into the Seventh Umbral Era arc explains the biggest gap of them all. The last of the earliest main quest cutscenes(I think, anyway) ends with you talking to Minfillia about the Resistance no longer sending people south to suddenly launching into the Seventh Umbral Era. I tried really hard to find something, anything that made a connection, but if there really isn't anything, that explains why I have not found it.

It's ironic this comes out of a topic about the White Ravens, I suppose. The main reason I started fishing around for 1.0 storyline was because I was doing the Coils for the first time during HW when I got to the Nael fight. After the cutscenes and all were done, I just had to know who Nael actually was and why s/he was there. So I set about trying to find out.

To end, I suppose I'll just say, I'm so upset that my computer at the time couldn't handle 1.X. I really wanted to play it, I did. I was there, but my computer would force a shutdown due to overheating if I went anywhere other then Thanalan, so I gave up on it. Alas, not everything works out.

"Oh no others can have earrings trough an event i had before them but never wore thoose earrings, how dare of you SE."
Just get over it, it's just earrings noone cares.

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Originally Posted by Ruf

I mean, its rather obvious but still, where is that comment about being conscious about the fact that some players dislike the route this game take at times (words for words)?

Are theses exactly the words used in the japanese post that english players did not get but french players got?

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This is a really late reply, but for what it's worth, it looks like the French translation treated the Japanese text a little bit differently, and the English is a bit more literal in this case.

The Japanese text goes like this:

苦しい時代を乗り越え、レガシープレイヤーの皆さんと苦楽を共にして迎えられた新生ですが、
新生以降も決して楽な道のりではなく、そのたびに僕たちは、等しくすべてのプレイヤーに支えられて、ここまで歩んでくることができました。

This is basically alluding to the fact that not only was the 1.x experience a challenge that legacy players went through, but there have also been bumps in the road since 2.0 as well. And then they follow this by returning to the earlier subject:

多数のリクエストをいただいていましたが、当時の完全再現は不可能で、それをするつもりがないことに変わりはありません。

Essentially that despite the many requests to recreate the 1.x experience, we aren't planning to go back.

(The English translation conveys these points pretty faithfully, so I'm just summarizing.)


The French translation combined these two parts into a single sentence, and so changed the context slightly. It starts...

"Je suis conscient qu’une partie d’entre vous a un avis un peu mitigé sur la manière dont certains éléments du jeu ont évolué..."

Which is, in a very broad sense, what the first Japanese part is talking about -- that they're aware that the road since 2.0 has had its problems too -- but then they link that directly to the conclusion of the second part --

"...mais nos décisions sont prises et nous ne reviendrons pas en arrière."

-- that the decisions are made and we're not turning back.


In a very broad sense, you can say that the French translation conveys the meaning: the past is the past, and we're going to keep moving forward. But really, the message was about three points: 1) they value the legacy players that stuck with them through thick and thin (both in 1.x and since ARR), 2) despite requests they aren't planning to recreate 1.x, and (as it went on to say) 3) this event is about bringing back just a little bit of the feeling/atmosphere of the end of 1.x and encouraging reminiscing, and so calling it a "replica" would have been more suitable.

I would not say they were trying to make some sort of statement that they are aware people don't like the direction the game has taken or anything that grandiose, but just acknowledging that they've made mistakes along the way and appreciating that legacy players have stuck with them through it.

Anyway, this is basically academic, but for whatever it's worth.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's a little concerning that you're so worked up over the earrings when your join date puts you as someone who did not even start in 1.0.

That's even more baffling than those complaining who did play back in 1.0.

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What's most baffling is that a person with no vanity items from raids, even ones that are essentially being given away for free such as the Gobwalker, is so deeply concerned about this issue that they've felt the need to post 41 times in this thread. More than anyone else.

The simple fact of the matter is, and this isn't meant to be malicious, the truth is that you don't care about value/prestige/exclusivity because you haven't earned anything to protect. Your tune would be entirely different otherwise.

Most people, I would think, are not upset that a "pair of earrings" were given away. No, they're upset that an achievement was given away. These are often the same people that weren't pleased when undersized party toggle was added and tore away Coil and SCoB Savage exclusivity. The people that will be peeved when Ultimate becomes available for undersize, because while one part of the PR mouthpiece was entertaining the notion of never removing the level restriction from Ultimate the other part was going and devaluing a different item of the same ilk.

"White Ravens shouldn't be protected because nothing else is protected" is looking at it from the wrong angle. "White Ravens should be protected so Ultimate and future high-end fights retain value" is the correct angle. Yes it sucks that Rivenroad isn't available anymore to even have a shot at trying your hand at, but unfortunately that's just how it goes for now.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That’s assuming that each person’s copy of the earrings exists as a separate item, that can be individually renamed.

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Except that's not relevant. The process is the same.

Find copies obtained during X time. Change their database entry. It's only a matter of whether what you change is the name directly or a database entry, really.

What does matter is what another poster said, the way armoire works. That does greatly complicate the matter because the code would need to discern between the item being created by armoire and by another source. Alternatively it would need to check logs for the oldest instance of it being created (if they even have logs from way back). Still possible (and if going the road of differentiation of the source, it would not matter even if someone did claim their legacy earrings during the event, but it may not be possible), but a whole lot harder.

Automation is a very important aspect to database management. Your system does it every time you copy/paste anything. If you'll look more in-depth into games (especially RPG) with names of random NPC's, you'll notice that varied NPC's may have the same names and be editable separately, too. That's because there's more to it than just the visible label. There's tons of possibilities. It is entirely possible for individual items to get unique ID during their creation on top of their database ID. This is used to prevent duping, as the system can catch a duped item by sharing ID with another of the same type. Something that would not be possible through legit methods that all add unique ID. If this was used (I doubt it...it's a bit less obvious and a bit more demanding, while the developers seemingly cannot even follow the obvious good coding practices), one could even change the item database ID's through the item ID numbers.

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Originally Posted by Spiriel_Basanda

As someone who has spent a very large amount of time trawling the internet and Youtube to find bits of text regarding the storyline of FFXIV 1.0, this is terrible! I've seen what I believe to be most of the cutscenes following the main storyline of 1.X, but being just the cutscenes, there are fairly large gaps between sequences at times that don't make sense without the context of the quests in between. I would have liked to know everything that was said to make sense of what was there, despite being "shambles". A book or a DVD would've shown me everything I want to know, and would still like for one to happen. I've greatly enjoyed it when I can make connections between the same characters in 1.x and 2.x.

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SE actually did release a compilation disc of 1.0 cutscenes with the Collector's Edition of ARR, called The Waning of the Sixth Sun. This disc only includes the 7th Umbral Era event cutscenes though, it does not include cutscenes for the original 1.0 starting city storylines and the truncated Path of the Twelve story. This is because those storylines were being cannibalized for ideas and concepts for ARR's storyline, and SE probably did not want to 'spoil' that.

Thus, this shows that really only the 7th Umbral Era story is still fully 'canon' to ARR - the original starting city story and the Path of the Twelve were effectively abandoned and retconned (quite a few ideas and 1.0 story concepts still remain canon in ARR, such as F'lhaminn and her connection to Thancred, and Minfilia's deceased father Warburton), but the majority of 1.0's original story has been quietly ignored or outright decanonized, SE seeming to adopt a "it's only still canon if we say so" stance unfortunately in regards to 1.0's story).

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Originally Posted by Spiriel_Basanda

Though I suppose at least that little bit about forcing the 1.0 storyline into the Seventh Umbral Era arc explains the biggest gap of them all. The last of the earliest main quest cutscenes(I think, anyway) ends with you talking to Minfillia about the Resistance no longer sending people south to suddenly launching into the Seventh Umbral Era. I tried really hard to find something, anything that made a connection, but if there really isn't anything, that explains why I have not found it.

It's ironic this comes out of a topic about the White Ravens, I suppose. The main reason I started fishing around for 1.0 storyline was because I was doing the Coils for the first time during HW when I got to the Nael fight. After the cutscenes and all were done, I just had to know who Nael actually was and why s/he was there. So I set about trying to find out.

To end, I suppose I'll just say, I'm so upset that my computer at the time couldn't handle 1.X. I really wanted to play it, I did. I was there, but my computer would force a shutdown due to overheating if I went anywhere other then Thanalan, so I gave up on it. Alas, not everything works out.

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That was because the Path of the Twelve story was effectively abandoned after that quest ('Future's Perfect'), due to the staff change-over from Tanaka's original team to Yoshi's team (that then decided to replace 1.0 with ARR completely), and so repurposed the storyline for the '7th Umbral Era' events to explain lore-wise the replacement of the zones with new maps (the original zone design being a major complaint of the original game).

Some dialogue and cutscenes for the planned future Path of the Twelve story beyond Future's Perfect did make into 1.0's client, but they were dummied out and never used, a shame, as that specific quest line is canon in ARR, as it concerned the Company of Heroes encountering Titan (from what I understand the player and their Path Companion were meant to head to O'ghomorro, only to find the kobolds had already summoned Titan and the Company of Heroes were already engaged in battle with him, something that naturally does not end well).

The reason this story was never implemented was the same reason Leviathan also never made it into 1.0, despite his model also being likewise included in the game files, and that was because to the terrible earthquake and tsunami that devastated Japan in March 2011 -SE naturally felt having storylines that involved summons that evoke earthquakes and tsunamis would be too insensitive to Japanese players (SE actually had to shut down the game servers temporarily for two weeks by order of the Japanese government at that time as a power-saving effort).

Either way, sadly the Path of the Twelve storyline ultimately ended up being quietly dropped at that point and was never completed, with the 7th Umbral Era story taking over (when Primal fights were added, besides Ifrit and Garuda a more 'cute' summon was decided to be added instead of Titan and Leviathan in the form of Good King Moggle Mog.

I admit it may be confusing to a new player, but really, the way ARR is written, ARR's main scenario really does not require knowledge of these prior events to enjoy or understand, as ARR really just retread the same ideas and concepts 1.0 had already dealt with, but in a different manner. So don't feel you've really missed out on that much only joining the game in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Throwing a tantrum over silly earrings. There goes the myth that legacy players support this game.

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Originally Posted by Ruru_Nayu

"Oh no others can have earrings trough an event i had before them but never wore thoose earrings, how dare of you SE."
Just get over it, it's just earrings noone cares.

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As has been said many times what the item is makes no difference the issue lies in what that item represents and signifies.

i said earlier in the thread it's exactly the same as olympic medals... if they just gave everyone a gold medal then it loses all meaning and significance. also destroys motivation. i mean hell if your gonna get gold no matter where you finish why bother trying?

Or hell even milatary medals. my great grandad has medals and crosses for things he did in the military that are impossible to obtain today. "The Burma Star" for one example" noone in todays military can get that medal nor is anyone in todays military entitled to it.. and if they started handed them out to every rookie who simply passes basic training it would be considered a major insult to all those who were actually there and fought at the time.

the white ravens is exactly the same principal.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

i said earlier in the thread it's exactly the same as olympic medals... if they just gave everyone a gold medal then it loses all meaning and significance. also destroys motivation. i mean hell if your gonna get gold no matter where you finish why bother trying?

Or hell even milatary medals. my great grandad has medals and crosses for things he did in the military that are impossible to obtain today. "The Burma Star" for one example".

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Thank you for the hearty laugh and disbelieving headshake that I got from your post.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's a real shame that they were essentially coerced into apologising. They did nothing wrong and some of the loudest voices were driven by entitlement and a selfish desire to be 'exclusive' whilst others were getting outraged on behalf of the vocal minority and completely ignoring the 1.0 players who spoke up and said they had no issue with the move.

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Put your made-up narrative aside for a second and actually go through this thread again. What actually happened here (can't speak for the JP/FR forums) is a very niche part of the playerbase posted about something they cared about, and then people like you worked incredibly hard to keep the thread alive for almost two weeks by continuously arguing semantics, aggressively engaging posters, fishing for last words in arguments, and making fun of things other people like.

Had you (and others who were opposed to the OP) simply responded once or twice with your counter-feedback and then moved on with your lives, this thread would've never gotten this big and it would've quickly been lost to oblivion.

Having visibility and activity in a fast-moving, cross-region forum such as this one is honestly almost as important as the actual feedback being posted. Let's not fool ourselves: the community managers don't have time to go through every single post of every big thread and I'd be surprised if anything beyond the top Liked posts and the size of this thread actually reached Yoshida.

I'm not saying posters like you directly made this happen, but it definitely would not have happened without you guys. Don't be so salty about reaping what you helped sow.


Honorable mention to a certain other poster who posted no less than FOUR snide comments about the length of the thread... which has the funny side-effect of moving the thread back to the top of the forums and ensuring it continues to grow.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

As has been said many times what the item is makes no difference the issue lies in what that item represents and signifies.

i said earlier in the thread it's exactly the same as olympic medals... if they just gave everyone a gold medal then it loses all meaning and significance. also destroys motivation. i mean hell if your gonna get gold no matter where you finish why bother trying?

Or hell even milatary medals. my great grandad has medals and crosses for things he did in the military that are impossible to obtain today. "The Burma Star" for one example" noone in todays military can get that medal nor is anyone in todays military entitled to it.. and if they started handed them out to every rookie who simply passes basic training it would be considered a major insult to all those who were actually there and fought at the time.

the white ravens is exactly the same principal.

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yeah the difference is
these are not Olympic medals that take almost all your life of training to get
these are not War medals for that you risk your life to help your country (you don't join the army to earn medals)
these are digital earrings that do not take away your achievement or memories of clearing the trial.
everyone having a chance to get these earrings doesn't take away the fact that you can look at your pair of earrings and go "i did the original fight " then doze off into memory lane.

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

felt the need to post 41 times in this thread. More than anyone else.

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He was definitely the true MVP!

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Originally Posted by Duskane

yeah the difference is

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No kiddin'? It's almost as if he used real life examples to illustrate a point to people that are arguing in bad faith and being unreasonably condescending that someone might actually find value in their time investment being rewarded.

It's not now, and never will be, about a singular item. It's entirely about the concept of devaluing, and that has every bit as much to do with the future of this game as it does the past. If they "take away" the prestige of Ultimate in Shadowbringers by allowing you to undersize it, they are in fact disrespecting the time and energy - and money, in some cases, as people actually used vacation days to pursue world first - spent by anyone that ever touched it. But they're also making it clear that any time you spend in Ultimates come 5.0 will similarly be devalued, and that is very much a legitimate consideration when asking yourself if you want to dedicate a large number of hours now versus getting it ostensibly for nothing later.

Well, this thread took a pretty creepy turn.

Thankfully we can safely ignore any commentary that implies that raiding is the only accomplishment that matters. It isn't. Way to miss the point of my earlier comments, though - ironically you're just reinforcing the fact that I said some people don't care about the items themselves and only want to brag and belittle others.

I slaved away to acquire the Yo-Kai and Garo mounts, under the impression that they would be only available for a sort time. A lot of blood, sweat and tears were involved. I acquired everything from both events. Then it later turned out that the Garo event was to be permanent and the Yo-Kai event was added for a second time. That didn't bother me at all. I still have the sense of accomplishment from acquiring them when they were first available and I get to see other people enjoy them.

Which is, I suppose, the big difference. I want to see other people enjoy the same things I do. I encourage it. It doesn't devalue my accomplishments at all.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Well, this thread took a pretty creepy turn.

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It's a public forum, lad. Your deflections are the case against you in and of itself. Who you are and what you do(n't do) matter.

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Thankfully we can safely ignore any commentary that implies that raiding is the only accomplishment that matters. It isn't. Way to miss the point of my earlier comments, though - ironically you're just reinforcing the fact that I said some people don't care about the items themselves and only want to brag and belittle others.

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Feel free to check me in return; I've cleared Coil and A4S. Nothing else. Will never set foot in Ultimate.

My point was to illustrate your hypocrisy. It's okay for you to post about things you have absolutely no stake in, but it's not okay for 2.0+ players to share the opinion opposite your own because they haven't played 1.0?

Here's a non-raiding example for you: Anyone that did the grind for Fenrir, Adamantoise, Cloud Strife Card, et al had their efforts devalued by Fashion Report. People now only have to speak to Redolent Rose 13 times to grab a free Fenrir. People that ground out MGP for Fenrir, are now significantly less inclined to grind out future MGP goodies. Not that they need to anyway unless a future item costs multiple millions of MGP.

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I slaved away to acquire the Yo-Kai and Garo mounts, under the impression that they would be only available for a sort time. A lot of blood, sweat and tears were involved. I acquired everything from both events. Then it later turned out that the Garo event was to be permanent and the Yo-Kai event was added for a second time. That didn't bother me at all. I still have the sense of accomplishment from acquiring them when they were first available and I get to see other people enjoy them.

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False equivalence. Yokai and Garo weren't nerfed, the grind was the same. Your items were not given away for no effort.

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Which is, I suppose, the big difference. I want to see other people enjoy the same things I do. I encourage it. It doesn't devalue my accomplishments at all.

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And one for the road: No one in this thread wishes to deny latecomers and casuals from (most) rewards. Specifically in the case of the White Ravens you know exactly why people are upset: Something they had to work for was just, quite literally, handed out to anyone lv30 or higher that can get into The Rising 2018 instance. It's not their fault the battle doesn't exist anymore.

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

No kiddin'? It's almost as if he used real life examples to illustrate a point to people

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It's blindingly obvious what he was doing, but when your real-life example is so radically different to the point of being incomperable to the situation at hand, it's not "bad faith" to point that out.

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

And one for the road: No one in this thread wishes to deny latecomers and casuals from (most) rewards. Specifically in the case of the White Ravens you know exactly why people are upset: Something they had to work for was just, quite literally, handed out to anyone lv30 or higher that can get into The Rising 2018 instance. It's not their fault the battle doesn't exist anymore.

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Barring bringing back the original fight or designing a new one of similar difficulty (which I think we agree is a disproportionate amount of effort involved for a legacy item and obviously won’t happen), adding the item to a five year commemoration of the events of 1.0 is about a respectful way to bring the item back as any. Since by your own words you aren’t arguing to keep the items away for exclusivity alone, how WOULD you suggest they bring it back, given the limitations above?

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Originally Posted by Emstidor

Barring bringing back the original fight or designing a new one of similar difficulty (which I think we agree is a disproportionate amount of effort involved for a legacy item and obviously won’t happen), adding the item to a five year commemoration of the events of 1.0 is about a respectful way to bring the item back as any. Since by your own words you aren’t arguing to keep the items away for exclusivity alone, how WOULD you suggest they bring it back, given the limitations above?

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If you want to tie my hands and not allow me to say the obvious "how about we make new items," the only compromise worth discussing is the implementation of the oft recommended Replica White Ravens or black-variant The Ravens. It's not ideal to just take those models and use them for something else - see also the issue with the Zodiac Brave Relics - but short of creating an appropriately difficult reimagining of Rivenroad HM or putting them in as a reward for something like minimum ilvl Turn 9 Savage it's the best option available.

The biggest issue with replicas, aside from still being on the wrong end of that devaluation line, is that there's the very real problem that some people are getting less out of this event than others just by virtue of already having those item models.

Hellluuuuuu

I'm glad the really important issues of this game get addressed. /s

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Originally Posted by Dzian

the fact its digital makes no difference at all.

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It kinda does though. Real life medals are yours for the rest of your life, hell you can even pass it on to your future grand children. A digital pair of earrings which can easily disappear if the game closes down mean you'll have nothing to show for it but your memories.

Real life rewards cannot be compared to temporary digital ones.

How about yall argue about important issues like lack of fun content.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Real life rewards cannot be compared to temporary digital ones.

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There are a lot of businesses that probably should have collapsed a decade or two ago, then.

In your example most people would probably see more value in a digital item they earned than a Medal of Honor/Purple Heart/whatever handed down to them from a grandparent. They would acknowledge that the service award has meaning, yes, and depending on closeness of relationship may or may not have value of a sentimental nature. But still. Similarly, I have a couple of martial arts trophies (not of the participation variety) from about 20 years ago and they don't really mean anything to me because that may as well have been a lifetime ago and I haven't seen or heard of any of my acquaintances from that period in about 15 years. I guess the counterargument there might be "but you're more physically fit and able to defend yourself than you otherwise would have been and that has value," and that's true on some level, but the exact value is dubious as I - and most people, I assume - do not get into physical altercations. Like, ever.

There are a great many nihilists that will tell you that physical items don't have value either and that everything is ultimately meaningless. Doesn't mean they're right.

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Originally Posted by Neon231

How about yall argue about important issues like lack of fun content.

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Why not do both? Start a thread and I might join in. Or I might just save myself the effort and take a nap since the game is, unfortunately, still a little too profitable for Yoshida to take most of our concerns seriously.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

SE actually did release a compilation disc of 1.0 cutscenes with the Collector's Edition of ARR, called The Waning of the Sixth Sun. This disc only includes the 7th Umbral Era event cutscenes though, it does not include cutscenes for the original 1.0 starting city storylines and the truncated Path of the Twelve story. This is because those storylines were being cannibalized for ideas and concepts for ARR's storyline, and SE probably did not want to 'spoil' that.

Thus, this shows that really only the 7th Umbral Era story is still fully 'canon' to ARR - the original starting city story and the Path of the Twelve were effectively abandoned and retconned (quite a few ideas and 1.0 story concepts still remain canon in ARR, such as F'lhaminn and her connection to Thancred, and Minfilia's deceased father Warburton), but the majority of 1.0's original story has been quietly ignored or outright decanonized, SE seeming to adopt a "it's only still canon if we say so" stance unfortunately in regards to 1.0's story).

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Huh, I didn't even realize that they decided 1.0 wasn't canon anymore due to the fact that so much of what I actually have managed to see does transition from 1.0 to 2.0 in such a way that makes sense, as well as even referring to the Path of the Twelve in 2.1. Not that knowing that would've stopped me from looking back to what was back there. Inquiring minds have just got to know, as it were. Things like learning that Mimidoa's troubles with Sirens, in one form or another, are never truly over was worth it. That and learning how Hildibrande actually went to Dalamud in order to fall back down to Eorzea in the first place was good. Typical Hildibrande. Also that 1.0 Gaius sounds a little bit like Darth Vader. That was funny to.

Didn't know they actually made a DVD as well, clearly. I never bother with collector's editions so I didn't look to see what came with it. I suppose I didn't make it extremely clear in the first post, apologies, but what I really want to see is specifically what isn't in the cutscenes but still pushes the storyline forward. The text that npcs say when you talk to them. The cutscenes are adequate, they get the general point and flow across, but it's like listening to one person on a three way conversation or so. I can dream at least, I'm not going to get a copy of the script anywhere, hah!

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Either way, sadly the Path of the Twelve storyline ultimately ended up being quietly dropped at that point and was never completed, with the 7th Umbral Era story taking over (when Primal fights were added, besides Ifrit and Garuda a more 'cute' summon was decided to be added instead of Titan and Leviathan in the form of Good King Moggle Mog.

I admit it may be confusing to a new player, but really, the way ARR is written, ARR's main scenario really does not require knowledge of these prior events to enjoy or understand, as ARR really just retread the same ideas and concepts 1.0 had already dealt with, but in a different manner. So don't feel you've really missed out on that much only joining the game in ARR.

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That's kind of a shame to, just axing the story like that. I understand why they did it of coure, it seemed like it was interesting. At least, the parts of the Path of the Twelve storyline I did manage to see was.

Yeah, the MSQ in ARR absolutely makes sense without prior knowledge, but I feel like the way it was crafted combined with the circumstances in which ARR came to be makes people that seriously, truly care about the lore of the game wonder about what happened before the Calamity more then if ARR was just the 1.0 instead of the 2.0. Enough to go browse the internet? Eh, probably not, but surely everyone at least wondered about it, right? The first 15 levels or so continually hammers what the Calamity was and what happened due to it into your head, and it keeps popping up at intervals past that. World altering events are a pretty big deal, I'll admit, but that combined with knowing that there actually was a world before the Calamity just made me curious.

Thanks for confirming I couldn't find anything because nothing exists to be found though. I had just assumed that surely they put something there that segued into it at least somewhat logically. Guess not! heh

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

The simple fact of the matter is, and this isn't meant to be malicious, the truth is that you don't care about value/prestige/exclusivity because you haven't earned anything to protect. Your tune would be entirely different otherwise.

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Well I have in another game. I still have some stuff in WoW that is no longer obtainable (or at least was not up until I stopped playing, can't speak for now) and generally I am against exclusivity that renders it impossible to gain something after a certain time. I prefer to watch players enjoy something than greedily hang on to my old trophies.

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

Most people, I would think, are not upset that a "pair of earrings" were given away. No, they're upset that an achievement was given away.

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I understand this but some 1.0 players are saying things like "we are the true supporters of the game" and not "we killed that boss and now it looks like you did too". Some of the 1.0 players here are more interested in reminding the rest of us that we somehow matter less than getting SE to rename some loot

SE could rename the "new" earrings because their databases would still have logs showing when something was looted, but obviously doing something like this would take a lot of time and money. So whether they think it's worth doing it or not is another thing altogether.

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

"White Ravens shouldn't be protected because nothing else is protected" is looking at it from the wrong angle. "White Ravens should be protected so Ultimate and future high-end fights retain value" is the correct angle. Yes it sucks that Rivenroad isn't available anymore to even have a shot at trying your hand at, but unfortunately that's just how it goes for now.

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Don't put ultimate and the earrings in the same basket. Ultimate is in a class of its own. At most the earrings can be compared to savage or ex loot.

Also I don't think everyone wants the earrings protected because they were from a challenging boss. From what many say here it's clear that some want them protected because they want to maintain a fictional upper class status. I am referring to the people who have said that 1.0 players are the true supporters of this game.

Sorry but unless something is a reward SE specifically gave to players because they played 1.0, such as the chocobo and the tattoo, then it being obtainable later is up for debate. The earrings were not awarded for playing 1.0, they were awarded for killing a specific boss. Not the same thing.

And for the record I am heavily against making the tattoo and the chocobo (and any other items gifted specifically for being part of 1.0) being made available for 2.0+ players. They were awarded solely based on participation of the game in that era. It would be a disservice to 1.0 players to unlock them for everyone else. But I repeat the earrings do not come under this because they are boss loot, not something SE gifted to every 1.0 player.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Well I have in another game. I still have some stuff in WoW that is no longer obtainable (or at least was not up until I stopped playing, can't speak for now) and generally I am against exclusivity that renders it impossible to gain something after a certain time. I prefer to watch players enjoy something than greedily hang on to my old trophies.

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I think you have to take the situation with a little bit of context. 1.0 and 2.0+ are essentially different games, so crossing rewards over is always going to be a little bit funky. The problem with this game is the entire lack of respect for ALL rewards. People are used to their hard-earned rewards being devalued, they aren't happy about it but they come to expect it. 1.0 rewards were always an exception, the gap between games always meant that the forced expiration of content couldn't reach them. I think people are less upset about the earrings themselves (being greedy about their trophies as you say) and more upset that the one safe haven of meaningful rewards in this game has finally been destroyed. Now every single reward in this game is open for forced expiration, ultimate, pvp, anything you work hard on.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I think you have to take the situation with a little bit of context. 1.0 and 2.0+ are essentially different games, so crossing rewards over is always going to be a little bit funky.

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How? Have the earrings somehow disrupted the balance of the game? Are some classes gaining an advantage from having them? I think you'll find the answer is no.

Also FFXIV has a history of collaborating with other franchises that have entirely different game mechanics so your argument is weak at best.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Well I have in another game. I still have some stuff in WoW that is no longer obtainable (or at least was not up until I stopped playing, can't speak for now) and generally I am against exclusivity that renders it impossible to gain something after a certain time. I prefer to watch players enjoy something than greedily hang on to my old trophies.

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I'm not advocating for the removal of content and, thus, the inability to obtain items. I'm advocating for not devaluing people's work through means such as this Rising event and allowing people to make an absolute mockery of the fights via undersized party toggle.

The fights would still be there. You could still access them. You would merely have to, you know, earn them. And Square would have to stop totally screwing up the feel/viability of less-than-level cap job. But one step at a time.

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I understand this but some 1.0 players are saying things like "we are the true supporters of the game" and not "we killed that boss and now it looks like you did too". Some of the 1.0 players here are more interested in reminding the rest of us that we somehow matter less than getting SE to rename some loot

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Barring being put into timeout for 9 days, I've been here since the start and have kept loose tabs on the goings on. I will not claim to have read every post in this thread.

I will say, however, that it was not the Legacy players that started slinging mud. The first was absolutely the non-Legacy players with their repeated insistence that Legacy players should just go away because the ARR+ people were all XIV needed, and that ARR would have happened even if the Legacy players didn't stick with 1.0 so "hey, you're not special, go away." It was ludicrous and infuriating. There's nothing inherently wrong with the second quote.

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SE could rename the "new" earrings because their databases would still have logs showing when something was looted, but obviously doing something like this would take a lot of time and money. So whether they think it's worth doing it or not is another thing altogether.

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This is a common theme with them. I'm probably risking another ban with their vague "don't disparage Square, XIV or the forum" ToS entry here, but seriously: They never think things through. It's always, without fail, them messing something up and then spending stupid amounts of time and resources trying to fix it to the state it should have launched in. See also: Both iterations of Diadem 1.0, and both Anemos and Pagos.

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Don't put ultimate and the earrings in the same basket. Ultimate is in a class of its own. At most the earrings can be compared to savage or ex loot.

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Relative difficulty wasn't my point there, but whatever. The point is that you do not convince people that something is going to be or remain an achievement while you're still going around devaluing the achievements already in the game (/of the past).

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And for the record I am heavily against making the tattoo and the chocobo (and any other items gifted specifically for being part of 1.0) being made available for 2.0+ players. They were awarded solely based on participation of the game in that era. It would be a disservice to 1.0 players to unlock them for everyone else. But I repeat the earrings do not come under this because they are boss loot, not something SE gifted to every 1.0 player.

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The area you draw the line confuses me, to be perfectly honest, but it is what it is.

I'm under no illusion that they won't eventually give away more items despite this most recent statement.

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

The area you draw the line confuses me, to be perfectly honest, but it is what it is.

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How is this confusing? The earrings are boss loot, the tattoo and chocobo are awards for participating in 1.0 in any manner. The way they were obtained isn't the same so they should not be treated in the same way.

Or is it confusing because you think every 1.0 item should be treated with the same exclusivity as the tattoo? :P

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Originally Posted by Penthea

How is this confusing? The earrings are boss loot, the tattoo and chocobo are awards for participating in 1.0 in any manner. The way they were obtained isn't the same so they should not be treated in the same way.

Or is it confusing because you think every 1.0 item should be treated with the same exclusivity as the tattoo? :P

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I think because we weigh the values of the White Ravens and Legacy Brand on entirely different scales.

For me, the Legacy Brand is a cheap trinket just given to any character that was created prior to a certain date. Could've been a lv1 character that logged in for 3 minutes, got to the scene with Leviathan or whatever, and their computer melted so they could never log in again until ARR hit the PS3.

Whereas the White Ravens required actual commitment (and a subscription...) to the experience that was 1.X.

So for the former to be completely off-limits, but the latter is fair game, throws me for a loop.

I love the statements of some people.

First SE would not have answered if it had not been enough complains. I mean they barely communicate with us at all so them posting something means that at least the complains got to them and felt the need to answer it. ;) I would just hope that they would answer to us much more with other topics too.

Second: Funny how people are seemingly not fans of FF14 if they complain about earrings (which is probably not about the glamour itself but about a broken promise and because it was thrown out into such a easy event..heck the OP even stated that it would have been fine if they had been replicas.) but as soon as its something minor that they care about themselves its fine to complain.

Examples:

-Bunny outfit for men
-More female than male glamours
-Bad campaigns for EU players
-Limited PVP mounts

You could easily argue that people should get over those too because they are just minor complains and are just digital goods that should hold no importancy over someone. Yet we had those discussion and SE reacted to a lot of those too. (And before someone gets it wrong. I was posting for those things too. Because I can understand that even if I dont want something or are not angry about something, others can be and have the right to post about this...without being verbally put down.)

Please just remember that once in the past you probably also had something that was minor in other peoples eyes and yet still talked about it because this is a forum were everyone can say why they like/dislike something without being attacked for it. And I am quite sure that you would have hated to be taken down too. If you disagree with something you are allowed to post but maybe without taking the poster itself down..saying how someone should stop playing, are no true fans or will be the downfall of the game (overdramatic much?) since the devs dared to answer it are no ways to argue..

Anway I hope the devs learn from this and start to hold true to their promises...and if you need to break them at least try to find a solution that would make the least amount of people angry. Or heck ask the players how they would want it to get some intel before you do it. With that a lot of anger could have been avoided.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Or is it confusing because you think every 1.0 item should be treated with the same exclusivity as the tattoo? :P

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I'm going to say this because Darrc didn't:

The way you phrased this is the entire problem with this thread. Darrc wanted nothing but a reasonable debate, with different viewpoints and considerations taken into account. It's clear that he didn't accuse you of anything or disrespect your opinion. You on the other hand are making up assumptions and accusations to shut down his opinion. He never ever said the thing you are accusing him of, and it completely destroys your argument and comes across as childish. Come up with something actually tangible that supports your argument rather than slandering people for no reason.

It's ironic that the people in defence of the rising are the ones making the outlandish arguments and acting like the sky is falling, just because some people asked to be respected by the devs

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

Whereas the White Ravens required actual commitment (and a subscription...) to the experience that was 1.X.

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So does getting any other boss loot while the content is current. The earrings are not unique in this aspect. Getting HW loot now is not the same as getting HW loot in HW.

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

For me, the Legacy Brand is a cheap trinket just given to any character that was created prior to a certain date. Could've been a lv1 character that logged in for 3 minutes, got to the scene with Leviathan or whatever, and their computer melted so they could never log in again until ARR hit the PS3.

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While this is true it does not change that the tattoo, the chocobo and cheaper sub fee are awards for playing 1.0 in any manner. Those gifts acted as both an apology and the hope that players would give them a second chance in 2.0. These should be completely off-limits because the intentions behind their creation are incredibly unique and have an extremely specific purpose.

The earrings however are boss loot. Their intended purpose and creation are not unique. They only hold significance because they are from 1.0, not because the manner in which they were obtained was vastly different to nearly any other loot in the game.

I understand that the earrings were more difficult to earn but this doesn't make them the same as actual legacy rewards. But many here act as if they are.

I don't think the model of the earrings should be off-limits for the reasons stated above, but I disagree with the name having no discernible difference with the originals from 1.0. That was definitely a mistake on SE's part. Personally I'd like the earrings no matter what they were called. I wouldn't be offended if they were called replicas instead.

If you're only doing the content because of the rewards and you don't enjoy the content itself, then I think that's something I'd step back and look at. I wouldn't want to play a game that I didn't have fun playing. My FC is currently farming all of the wolves, because it's fun to clear current content and succeed at it. And yet we'll still go back and unsync these mounts for new players who don't have time to commit thousands of hours to the old stuff as well as joining us for the new stuff. It doesn't take away my enjoyment now of my legendary kamuy for people to get it later, and in fact it's always fun to go back and faceroll things that were difficult the first time around. I did the thing, I had the mount for a year or more before folks who are waiting for unsync will get it. I'm not saying content needs to be nerfed but when it's not current? Sure.

If you do enjoy the fights and you're just against people getting old stuff that they didn't have to do the same way as you did, I say get over yourself. Games change. Nobody's against them tightening the post-Praetorium content slog because we understand that when a game gets longer, it gets more daunting to get through (although I bet that if there was a shiny reward for completing it some people would complain). Things don't need to be handed out, but making it easier to get old stuff leaves time to focus on new stuff. And it's still not "a quick run". RNG is still a thing to contend with. We spent 3h last night on Ifrit without one mount; Susano usually gives his out faster than that.

And if we're taking the "things should never get easier route" I'm going to have to say that this whole game needs to be cancelled. I played my first MMO on dial up, so it's a travesty that people are able to get their video game entertainment quicker and easier than I did. And if you ordered that pizza online, you're cheating. Real people order delivery on the phone. God, I hate these people who just turn on netflix, in my day you had to go to the Blockbuster and rent your movies in 3-day chunks!

And for those of you saying that this is why people expect everything to be handed to them, even to nerf new content, no. That's been a thing since time began. People were begging nerfs in original WoW, in EQ1, in City of Heroes and Guild Wars. And old games didn't actually sync you down, if I recall - I'm pretty sure that when I played vanilla my friends and I would just run through lower level dungeons to get random loot for newbies. (It's been a long time since I played, though, so I'm fully admitting that my memory is fuzzy.) I remember that SWtOR only introduced level sync late, though. Until then you could do low content at high levels any time you wanted. So don't act like this whole "cheesing lower level stuff" thing is some new lazy trick.

I have to agree with Yoshi-P, I am also a player that tends to value the experience over the reward, the reward itself is just a bonus. Think the divide came about due to this difference of mindset, and at the very least he acknowledged such difference. Now does that mean they will act on it in the future? Only time will tell, personally I take such statements with a grain of salt since words are meaningless without actions.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

Coming from someone who claimed that people are just envious of those who have "an achievement that they don't", this is an interesting statement.

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I said that because I have come across people in-game with that attitude, it was not a direct reference to this thread, just the type of behavior another poster mentioned.

I was replying to someone else about it based on what they posted and decided to share those experiences of people being salty (you are using the word envious, if you look at my other post I never used that word). I even explained in my next post that it was not a direct comparison to what is going on here, nor did I claim everyone in this thread is envious, but I guess maybe you didn't see it.

If you misunderstood then I apologize for not wording it better.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

I don't think that's a matter of opinions. This whole matter has become so big because some people didn't want others to get an item that they value, period. Feel free to romanticize everyone's personal reasons, but it won't change that simple detail.

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I am not romanticizing anything.

I am saying you don't know everyone's reasons or how they feel about this, cause you don't. That isn't an opinion, it is a fact that you don't know. I am not saying you are entirely wrong, some people might be exactly what you say they are, but you aren't just covering them in this blanket, you are covering everyone.

I don't think we have to discuss whether or not it can be rude to claim someone just wants to brag or show off, do we? It is a negative, and most people will feel affronted by such an accusation about their personality.

You can have that opinion if you want to, but I don't know why you would reply to me talking about disliking drama when you already participated in said drama and went out of your way to blanket statement people with 'you should just admit all you want to do is brag and feel special.'

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

people tend to need things that can give them bragging rights in order to feel special. At the very least, I hope they can admit that much.

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You said you don't like drama, but then you go into a thread you consider drama and post this.

Does that sound like you are going to get a good response? Or more drama? Sounds like more drama since you are making a blanket statement about everyone. Just my observation.

And then you blanket statement again in a reply to me:

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

this drama does boil down to people wanting to feel exclusive and special. The good memories and the satisfaction of having accomplished something won't work for them; they want to own things that no one else owns, and they want it to show. It's that simple.

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So yeah...like I said, to me your last 2+ posts in here are just using these blanket statements to fan the flames and just results in more drama.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

Um, I apologize if I offended you in any way, But I think you're somehow trying to twist and turn the focus of the real conflict that happened here, putting the blame on the people who disapprove of it. It wasn't me who made Yoshida apologize; I merely stated my disappointment about the fact.

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I'm not offended.

I am not twisting anything. If you disapprove that is fine, anyone who disapproves it is fine to have that opinion. I just do not like your blanket statements you decided to reply to me with after I replied to Lambda, and saying you dislike drama but then somehow being unaware that you are just adding to it too.

Also I'm not sure what Yoshida apologizing has to do with me? I also never accused you of "making him apologize"? I mean to be fair no one can make someone else apologize, he could have ignored it like SE does with 95% of other forum stuff, but I guess they chose not to.