#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by RinaB

I feel the whining has been ignored by the devs for so long because it's ridiculous. You want to be black mages with your healing kit. You signed up as a healer. Heal. If hour static knows everything and you're bored who's fault is that. Play a dps.

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How to tell you don't read without telling you don't read, much less trying to understand (even less being able to mayhaps).

If the healer role would be more realistic, you'd probably go in debt for offering your service.

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Originally Posted by RinaB

You signed up as a healer. Heal.

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yeah that's the thing, a lot of the time, there is nothing to heal

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Originally Posted by RinaB

I don't know what you mained but sage is awesome. I love it and I'm not even kidding. I have no idea what all this whining is about aside from the fact it's people who should just be playing a different job .

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Reading is important, but I don't blame you for not wanting to read 900+ pages of a thread.

There is, however, a summary and bunch of links on the first post explaining the issue with healers. I guess that was too much of a difficult task to do too?

My friend has played SGE since EW release, and while she enjoys it much more than any other healer, after years of playing she agrees healers are boring irregardless of what you do. She did the ultimate, she did savage, her opinion doesn't change: healer job is horrendous.

I told her myself "if you see you don't enjoy it anymore, why are you still playing healers?" her answer usually results in "I've always played healer" and I understand that sentiment as well.

You can play a healer role and still hate what it has become.

Yall realize you're responding to someone obviously just stirring the pot, right? I mean, good for them for keeping the thread up, but you might as well be arguing with a wall.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Yall realize you're responding to someone obviously just stirring the pot, right? I mean, good for them for keeping the thread up, but you might as well be arguing with a wall.

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That should have become obvious the moment they pulled out the "You want to be black mages that heal" line.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Yall realize you're responding to someone obviously just stirring the pot, right? I mean, good for them for keeping the thread up, but you might as well be arguing with a wall.

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What is a wall good for if not a useful place to plaster messages on?
It's like a strawman you don't even need to make yourself.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I grabbed a spoon and held my nose to finish getting SGE to 100 by doing an Alliance Raid roulette recently, got Weeping City of Mhach, and was immediately reminded of why I have so much anxiety over this role with the amount of people in my party (myself included) that ended up repeatedly dead. That poor AST with me had to hard carry us all, and I'm pretty sure the 2 SMNs with us did more Raises than I did, lol.

I'm a perfect example of why you should *want* the veterans healers still playing the role by giving them something they'll actually enjoy, instead of expecting/demanding that non-healer/DPS mains should "role flex" and pick up the slack, because we *will* end up a menace in your queues.

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No need to be anxious. Everyone has to learn at some point.

Now, I can only speak for myself here, but The Wiping City of Mhach is one of my favourite alliance raids specifically because it can go horribly wrong. It feels good to drag back the team from the brink of disaster by keeping your head cool and running triage. Maybe my brain is just broken from having mained healers in MMOs for years but these situations are what I used to love about the role. They made me feel something other than boredom.

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Originally Posted by RinaB

As a new sage player who is gonna main it I think everyone here is a whining bitch who needs to play another job but doesn't have the guts to do so. I like the down time, it allows me to dps abs get addersgall stacks. I run with pugs so it's always a challenge and i get comms out the ass because I prioritize healing over dps. Isn't that crazy? How dare i. Go on your strike. I'm enjoying my insta queues

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Oh hey, another preachy person who has Shiny New Class Syndrome, coming to tell us how horrible it will be for us that they make our DPS queues shorter. Oh no, how horrible. They really got us this time, guys!

By the way, Ria, let us know how things are going when you've played Sage at max level in current content, for a bit, will you? You literally don't have a single healing job leveled to 100, so you coming here calling us whiny is quite hilarious. Just another entitled tank/DPS main, as usual.

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Originally Posted by RinaB

I feel the whining has been ignored by the devs for so long because it's ridiculous. You want to be black mages with your healing kit. You signed up as a healer. Heal. If hour static knows everything and you're bored who's fault is that. Play a dps.

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Another go for the benefit of the doubt, but yeah. It's a good idea to read the counter points from your opposition before diving into the offensive of a debate.

The healers posting here are more asking for something comparable to a tank rotation. Maybe 2 - 3 extra buttons for it? A few healer spells will need to be consolidated to make room for it. If more healing is needed from unavoidable damage, that could help with seeing GCD healing usage. The expected DPS numbers should remain close to the same to a bit lower under high healing situations. So essentially, it is a request for more variety of animations to see on the class. The Dosis spam will always be there, but it is currently raising to around 80% of GCD usage levels from the graphs shown from Savage runs. Pretty high for just 1 button.

Some of your arguments are not making sense too. You are encouraging us to try the DPS role, then shaming us for not playing the healer. Kind of need to decide which statement is more important to say. In any case, I already said that I am DPSing in Expert roulette as a SAM. I also use Tengetsu and Feint to help reduce damage taken. We keep hearing SAM should use them before they get the Kaiten animation back but it seems rare anyone ever notices when I do it. Similar case for Addle as well.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Oh hey, another preachy person who has Shiny New Class Syndrome, coming to tell us how horrible it will be for us that they make our DPS queues shorter. Oh no, how horrible. They really got us this time, guys!

By the way, Ria, let us know how things are going when you've played Sage at max level in current content, for a bit, will you? You literally don't have a single healing job leveled to 100, so you coming here calling us whiny is quite hilarious. Just another entitled tank/DPS main, as usual.

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I mean, they are a learning healer, as shown by the thread in healer subforum asking for learning advices for SGE and is leveling one currently. I'll commend them for doing that much because typical Sylphies never even reach that point.

That being said... give it time :rolleyes: Let that WAR/PLD told them to not heal because these chonky heroic tanks will do the job/play the game for them. Let their party finish a dungeon without them from 90% when they f*ck up something. Let that tank yell at them for even trying to GCD heal. Let those RDM/SMNs steals their raises. Let that 1 hotkey wears out from overuse. Let that--- *cough*

Oooh~ the list goes on lmao.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

[...]It feels good to drag back the team from the brink of disaster by keeping your head cool and running triage. Maybe my brain is just broken from having mained healers in MMOs for years but these situations are what I used to love about the role. They made me feel something other than boredom.

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Don't worry, you're not alone there. This is exactly why I loved to force the ivalice/nier raids to pop simply because they don't happen quite often and there's often something going wrong - and I know I can fix them by keeping myself calm & collected, choosing the right tools to drag the clown fiesta to the finish line. It's something that's been missing from a lot facet of healer's gameplay.

Now, does these situations imparts great deal of stresses to the non-healers within the same clownfest of a duty? Oh certainly, to a varying degree depending on each players. This is merely one aspect that makes player a healer enjoyable. What would happen if everybody knows what to do? Nothing. So... can we actually get to have fun in these situations? Y'know... maybe upkeep certain buff? debuff? utility? not just 'more dps options'? Instead of spamming 1 button 90% of time ad nauseam on any healers? Oh oops, apparently asking for all of that is also illegal for the 3rd rate citizens lmao sorry.

People shouldn't be surprised with the outrage given there's a lot double standard going on here. They deserve all these flaks and I have no sympathy for these job devs.

Chonky healer PLD/WAR probably hasn't realized yet that Piety isn't a typo.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Yall realize you're responding to someone obviously just stirring the pot, right? I mean, good for them for keeping the thread up, but you might as well be arguing with a wall.

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true, but It's fun seeing the post counter rise

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Originally Posted by RinaB

I've main tanked for too long and I'm done with it. Instead of striking I found a role a really like. Am I a pro healer? Probably not but I'm working on it. My point is, I'm not making other players in the Game suffer because I hate my jib or role. Now I am benefiting them all because I'm playing a job and role I enjoy. The healer strike isn't effecting the devs, it's negatively impacting your own servers because of your narcissistic mentality. You really think square cares? No. But the tanks and dps waiting 20 min do.

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You're not really making any valid point though, are you? No one owes anyone else anything, healers don't have any obligation to queue for anything- if they don't enjoy a particular activity, they don't have to queue. If someone finds that their party is waiting too long, one of them can switch to a healer.

Calling them "narcissists" won't help, thinking about the DPA and tanks and showing a total lack of concern for healer complaints definitely won't help.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

You're not really making any valid point though, are you? No one owes anyone else anything, healers don't have any obligation to queue for anything- if they don't enjoy a particular activity, they don't have to queue. If someone finds that their party is waiting too long, one of them can switch to a healer.

Calling them "narcissists" won't help, thinking about the DPA and tanks and showing a total lack of concern for healer complaints definitely won't help.

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> Calls healers narcissistic

Meanwhile, some WAR mains: "Do NOT nerf my damage, do NOT nerf my healing, I NEED to be able to hard carry these garbage-tier players who can't do any mechanics, they should be THANKING me for soloing the boss for them."

Always funny to see the line of 'if you don't enjoy healing, go play a DPS/Tank'. I enjoy healing. I used to enjoy healing here. Then 'healing' here changed for the worse IMO, and now I enjoy it less. How is the solution for that 'go swap role'? How is the solution for 'I got skilled enough at the game to clear Savage' to swap role? If me and my team are ALL good enough to clear Savage, then by that logic we should all swap role to DPS, and then we're left with nobody playing healer. Genius solution.

I read 'go play a different role' in a similar fashion to 'oh, you don't like what your government is doing with policy in your country? Just move to a different one'


Also I was thinking about this idea a bit more:

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Still waiting for SE to discover the concept of 'heal absorbs',...

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And I have two things to add to it. One, an actual mechanic name instead of 'heal absorb'. I think it needs a more thematic name, like how instead of MP Regen (eg from Lucid Dreaming), we have 'Refresh'. So, instead of 'heal absorb', I'd propose either Aetherblight or Aetherscourge. Personally, I'm leaning more towards Aetherblight

Two, the idea of 'Aetherblight' literally exists in the game lore already, ironically. It's the perfect explanation for why we couldn't save Haurchefant: The spear gave him such a high amount of Aetherblight that any healing against him wasn't affecting his actual HP in time to save him from the DOT he had (aka bleeding out from the giant hole in his chest)

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Always funny to see the line of 'if you don't enjoy healing, go play a DPS/Tank'. I enjoy healing. I used to enjoy healing here. Then 'healing' here changed for the worse IMO, and now I enjoy it less. How is the solution for that 'go swap role'? How is the solution for 'I got skilled enough at the game to clear Savage' to swap role? If me and my team are ALL good enough to clear Savage, then by that logic we should all swap role to DPS, and then we're left with nobody playing healer. Genius solution.

I read 'go play a different role' in a similar fashion to 'oh, you don't like what your government is doing with policy in your country? Just move to a different one'

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Unfortunately, there is no solution because SE doesn't see a problem and there are plenty of players who are fine with healing as it currently is. Healing design is very unlikely to be changing in this game. That is the message the developers are sending with their current silence on the subject.

So if you otherwise enjoy the game, you're left with either healing in its current state (which you don't enjoy) or playing a job in another role (which you might enjoy).

And if no one wants to heal, the answer isn't for everyone to go DPS. The answer is for everyone to go tank. Tank only parties have managed to clear enough content that it's a valid (if poor) solution for the majority of content outside of anything with extremely tight DPS checks or a doom that needs to be either removed with Esuna or healed to full (and tanks are probably to the point they could heal to full now).

If you really want to get SE's attention, the strike was never the way to go. Getting everyone to go tank is. It is tank design at the foundation of the problem. Demonstrate how useless healers have become as a result of tank utility.

If healing is your love above and beyond anything else the game has to offer, you're going to be better off looking for a different MMORPG to play where the healer design is more to your liking.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I just don't enjoy the responsibility that comes with healing (or tanking), no matter how much they keep trying to warp those roles to make them less intimidating to play, which says a lot about Square-Enix's attempts that they've simplified both roles down *this* much and I'm still over here doing Shirk in real life when they could just... you know... leave them alone for the people who enjoyed them already/can handle the responsibility.

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This is the piece of the puzzle which Square Enix just cannot seem to understand. No matter what they do, they are not going to make tanking or healing appealing to the bulk of players who wish to play damage dealers.

People who want to play tank or healers create tanks or healers. While a few players may branch out into other roles, the majority of damage dealers stay with the dps role exclusively, because they don't want the responsibility and pressure of being a tank or healer.

It is really is that simple. The sooner CBU3 accepts this truth, the sooner we'll get job designs of healers for players who enjoy playing healers instead of what we have now.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

This is the piece of the puzzle which Square Enix just cannot seem to understand. No matter what they do, they are not going to make tanking or healing appealing to the bulk of players who wish to play damage dealers.

People who want to play tank or healers create tanks or healers. While a few players may branch out into other roles, the majority of damage dealers stay with the dps role exclusively, because they don't want the responsibility and pressure of being a tank or healer.

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Some players have put forth that the best solution to making DPS mains swap to a healer is to further reduce the responsibilities of the healer role and load off that responsibility onto the tank and DPS roles.

I don't think I have to explain why that's a bad idea and how that would further alienate the players who want to actually play a healer and be responsible for keeping the party alive.

But maybe the dev team is following on that same train of thought, "If we make the role so stupidly simple that any monkey can pick it up and perform well, surely the tank and DPS mains would swap over and main a healer!" (They won't)

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If healing is your love above and beyond anything else the game has to offer, you're going to be better off looking for a different MMORPG to play where the healer design is more to your liking.

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I was a Healer throughout my levelling during HW. In SB when I got into raiding proper, Tanking was my love above and beyond anything else the game had to offer. And then they simplified the parts I found fun about Tanking, out of existence, in SHB. I moved back to healing because of that, and my group (at the time) needing a healer. I wasn't exactly happy with SHB healing (compared to what I did as healer in SB, and by comparison to what I experienced in HW while levelling), but over time with EW and now DT, more and more actions getting added that allow us to throw out even more healing compared to the amount of incoming damage, the amount of time I get to enjoy healing (effectively, week 1-3ish prog) gets shorter and shorter.

I've already tried 'if you don't like it, swap role', swapping from Tank to Healer. So now what, I should swap to DPS, swap role AGAIN? Because SE screwed up what I enjoyed about two of the three available roles in the game? Just play a nice little game of Musical Chairs with SE, where every time they make a mess of the job/role I try to enjoy, I'm meant to just suck it up and move to another job/role? Even BLM wasn't safe from the 'simplification that alienates core playerbase', and if that job's not safe, then nothing is

Also, seems a bit tonedeaf to say to players who play an MMO, a genre known for 'players invest a lot of time into their chosen game', to simply up sticks and move to another one. Especially when the one they've invested time into, had what they desired already. That's why they invested the time in the first place. Do you think I'd have spent several thousand hours on this game, if my whole journey was as 'enjoyable' as how it's been with Dawntrail so far?

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Originally Posted by Gullis

true, but It's fun seeing the post counter rise

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We're almost at the 1,000 page point!

Also did they mention healers or job design at all in that last live letter? I'm assuming not a peep.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

We're almost at the 1,000 page point!

Also did they mention healers or job design at all in that last live letter? I'm assuming not a peep.

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Only a vague statement about job changes coming in 7.1 and more info coming in the part 2 LL.

They did confirm no nerfs though, only buffs, because they don't want to mess up the tuning for the ultimate.

With their track record, they're going to buff tank healing to compensate for all the Healer mains stopping playing Healer.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

They did confirm no nerfs though, only buffs, because they don't want to mess up the tuning for the ultimate.

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Because only buffs worked so well for the savage tier huh

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Because only buffs worked so well for the savage tier huh

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To be fair mathematically this tier was undertuned even before the buff

PCT’s is just the logical conclusion of the “everything centres on the buff” meta

If they nerfed PCT it would just be another CD based burster who would become the problem as Cd Based busters are just objectively better than gauge jobs in this game

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Only a vague statement about job changes coming in 7.1 and more info coming in the part 2 LL.

They did confirm no nerfs though, only buffs, because they don't want to mess up the tuning for the ultimate.

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Dia's potency increased from 75 to 80.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

But yeah, I'm not even sure if giving current DPS jobs a "dual role" would get me in there being a "Ninja dodge tank" or "Machinist turned Chemist", or how the idea of dumping healing/mitigation responsibility on DPS is just going to make me avoid playing those jobs that got saddled with it. I mean, compared to my fondness for NIN and MCH, I don't really like playing MNK and BRD as-is, and wouldn't you know it, they've got more support skills than most other DPS. At *best* I like playing RDM as well, but Raises are not a constant thing I need to do (or at all most of the time), and I use my Cure about as much as the healers get to ...and that's kind of the problem with the role right now, isn't it?

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This is what I'm trying to get people to understand. There are different types of players and the player types that would gravitate to the DPS role are rarely the types that would also overlap with the support roles. Sure, there are people who play all roles comfortably, but that is not the majority of the playerbase, most people tend to stick to one role and only dabble in others or not touch them at all.

You simply cannot entice a DPS main to become a healer main in large enough numbers to justify cutting off a large number of veterans. Further simplifying healers would only just make more and more unsatisfied healers while not even guaranteeing an influx of new healers. In fact, we've had quite a few new healers asking if the role ever stops being boring, so their approach has very clearly failed.

Although, you might manage to entice some DPS mains over if you rework healers into jobs with deep complex rotations and big damage that just pulses out healing passively, but what's the point of the role at that point?

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

With their track record, they're going to buff tank healing to compensate for all the Healer mains stopping playing Healer.

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In before they add more self sustain and shields to DPS as well

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

where even the whole "pure vs. barrier healer" thing seems to have weakened over time.

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it didnt really weaken over time as much as was run over by a bus, then had its limbs amputated and then shot to death before it had a chance to really work.

probably because it was too stressful.... or some other BS

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I had assumed that was what SGE was supposed to do, be the "DPS healer" but it doesn't seem like that was the case, and it plays virtually identical to the rest from what I've read around here.

But that was brought up before as well, that the game *could* have it's super-simple healer (likely WHM), while the other three have differing levels of complexity or just be different *period*, same with how even for a DPS main like myself I obviously don't enjoy *all* DPS jobs because I don't jive with their mechanics or rotation. As much as people bring up homogenization, most DPS at least *feel* different even if the total numbers coming out of them are identical otherwise (broken SMN traits aside), healers don't get that benefit though, where even the whole "pure vs. barrier healer" thing seems to have weakened over time.

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My theory has been that it did manage to feel considerably different when they originally planned it out but it fell apart when the savage/ultimate devs shortened Dosis to 1.5s

Eukrasia, Phlegma and Toxicon would've meant much more at least

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

My theory has been that it did manage to feel considerably different when they originally planned it out but it fell apart when the savage/ultimate devs shortened Dosis to 1.5s

Eukrasia, Phlegma and Toxicon would've meant much more at least

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As much as I like SGE aesthetically, it utterly failed in its very concept though. Needing to press dps spells to trigger not-Regen's heal is redundant if I'm spamming said dps spells anyway. By that logic, even AST is a "dps healer." Toxicon also sounds good on paper, being similar to TBN, but in practice it's just an instant cast Dosis. If it at least left a dot or something it may be more interesting but I digress.

My guess is they were too afraid SGE's damage would need to be on par with tanks (or higher) for the "damage-to-heal" niche to work, and we can't have that.

I honestly get this vague feeling that SGE was meant to be something more than what we got, it was probably closer to what Yoshida mentioned it would be back in the concept stage.

But then one of the team probably said "Wait a minute, if SCH hard, why SGE also hard?", and then the rest of the team nodded their head in agreement and lobotomised SGE.

Just had the realization that SE's approach to healers, of 'what if we try to attract the DPS players to the role, oops we didn't and also we made some of the veterans quit so now the role's stagnating' is very similar to the blockchain/NFT BS they went through. 'Let's sell a load of IPs to get money, and invest it in NFT/Blockchain tech cos it might take off! Oh it didn't, and the general gaming population now sees NFTs as a scam, so now we have a bit of money (but nowhere near what the IPs were actually worth), and like 6 less IPs to work with. Oops'. It'd be at least slightly more palatable, if they were capable of admitting 'that was not a great business decision, we should take steps to remedy it', but they just double down on it instead.

But hey, at least under the new owners, Soul Reaver is allowed to get a HD remaster

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

But that was brought up before as well, that the game *could* have it's super-simple healer (likely WHM), while the other three have differing levels of complexity or just be different *period*, same with how even for a DPS main like myself I obviously don't enjoy *all* DPS jobs because I don't jive with their mechanics or rotation. As much as people bring up homogenization, most DPS at least *feel* different even if the total numbers coming out of them are identical otherwise (broken SMN traits aside), healers don't get that benefit though, where even the whole "pure vs. barrier healer" thing seems to have weakened over time.

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Anyone with any design sense could have told them to drop the Pure/Barrier split in the design phase. They even tried to do it for tanks (splitting them into MT, better at holding the boss and self-defensives), and OT (better at supporting the MT with supplementary CDs like Cover/Intervention/etc). Then they must have had a moment of realization, that 'wait a second, the OT has to take the boss sometimes too, because of tankswaps' and decided to make them all capable of being MT.

By enforcing a Pure/Barrier split, the only thing they do is paint themselves into a corner on what can be added to each job. WHM can't have a more easily accessible party Barrier or Mitigation (both are tied to the same button, Temperance, a 2min CD), because it's a Pure healer. Conversely, you'd expect the same to be true of Barrier Healers (that they struggle to top HP up, and are proficient in preventing it from dropping in the first place), but because of certain HPS checks like Seat of Sacrifice's Doom, they HAVE to have a certain amount of Pure Healing capabilities. So, we end up with this situation we're in now: Double Barrier works (and in certain cases like TOP, is optimal), Double Pure sucks and only works in BIS (often requiring high coordination and certain other non-healer utilities like Magick Barrier to plug holes in the Mit plan).

If I could suggest an idea to SE, it'd be this: Drop the hard split, and swap over to a 'sliding scale' system. The better at 'Pure healing' a job is, the less Barrier capability it has, and vice versa. With this, WHM and SCH can be the champions at the far ends of the scale, masters of Pure and Barrier healing respectively, and AST/SGE can be a bit closer to the middle, leaning towards one side, but not fully abandoning the other. With this 'sliding scale', it becomes much easier to slot a new healer in too, eg one could be added that perfectly straddles Pure and Barrier capability, directly in the centre (I'd suggest a gameplay where the Barrier side is achieved by turning a portion of damage taken into a DOT, and the Pure side is achieved by mainly using HOTs to counteract the delayed damage DOT).

DT's additions give a flicker of hope that they will move away from the Pure Barrier split, at least in gameplay if not in UI. Sun Sign and Divine Caress are clearly Barrier Healing tools, but are on AST and WHM. And Seraphism allows SCH to pump out AOE GCD healing that is stronger than Cure3, for only 2/3 the MP cost of Cure3.

Lastly, I don't necessarily agree that we should have a 'super simple healer (likely WHM)' and 3 with differing levels of complexity. Instead, I think we should have 4 healers, where the barrier to entry is 'super simple', and the skill ceiling of all four is somewhere akin to Stormblood Scholar's skill ceiling. I've mentioned as much (and how to get there designwise) multiple times, and it looks like it's time to mention it again. If someone wants to play WHM (as I've designed it in that thread) and have very chill gameplay, they could just spam Glare (as we do now mostly) and still perform well. In fact, if they play as they do now (refresh Dia when it is needed, press Glare if not), that'd be 95-98% of the effectiveness of the 'fully optimized' gameplay. If they want to be a WHM main and have depth in their journey to optimize, however, said design would offer additional gameplay systems and loops to allow for them to do so. Think about a game like DMC. As Dante, you can probably beat the game by just using Swordmaster. But for those who want to 'get crazy', you can do the whole 'TrickGunSwordGunRoyalGuardTrickSwordRoyalGun' crazy combos. The game has a low skill floor (be in Swordmaster and press 'attack'), and a massive skill ceiling (TrickSwordGunSword), and that is the design direction I believe would best suit job design here. Low skill floor is the way to get players into the role, High skill ceiling is the enticement to keep them enjoying the role and feeling like there's more to learn to master it

I just now realize that the 'optimal' SCH gameplay I made in that thread, is kind of like the DMC TrickSwordGun thing (albeit at a much slower pace due to the pace of FFXIV combat). And like DMC, the player would be able to simply stay in one 'stance' the whole time and still beat all the content in the game (but those who want to SwordGunTrickGun, would be able to)

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Originally Posted by Aravell

But then one of the team probably said "Wait a minute, if SCH hard, why SGE also hard?", and then the rest of the team nodded their head in agreement and lobotomised SGE.

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Funny thing is, 'job is hard' and 'job is fun' don't need to be intrinsically linked like that. Job can be 'not so hard' and still be fun. I think SGE with a burst window (akin to Enshroud, or now Reawaken) would be fun, but I don't think it'd necessarily be 'hard'. In the same way that, if we had Pankardia at like level 52-58 (instead of Philosophia giving the effect at 100), it'd be a more interesting way to heal, and it wouldn't necessarily be 'harder' per se, because if Pankardia isn't enough to heal the team in time, we have like 6 other OGCDs we could use to supplement it. If anything, the 'hard' part is actually designing the job to be forgiving, not playing it, but A: it's literally what SE is getting paid for, and B: I'm a goober on the internet, and while it might be quite egotistical for me to say, I think I did a pretty good job of illustrating 'how we can make X healer more 'fun to play' at all levels of gameplay, without making it require a PHD'

I will never agree to the notion of keeping WHM the 'stupid' of the role. See how well that flows on SMN within caster role lol.

If people want to play 'simple healer' there's already one in the game: Conjurer. Use that. Or suck it up and play inoptimally on any 4 healers. You don't need to be performing at 101% at all times. That's just unrealistic.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I will never agree to the notion of keeping WHM the 'stupid' of the role. See how well that flows on SMN within caster role lol.

If people want to play 'simple healer' there's already one in the game: Conjurer. Use that. Or suck it up and play inoptimally on any 4 healers. You don't need to be performing at 101% at all times. That's just unrealistic.

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It's because the community have shifted the collective opinion to "Anything that loses me even 1 damage per minute is the devil and needs to be purged from the game and never spoken of again".

Look at all the tanks who reject any suggestion of making their multitude of free healing (not you DRK) a little bit less free. Look at all the healers in PF that kick and scream when you suggest that maybe a GCD heal would be good at some point. Look at all the casters or melee who get annoyed when you ask them to Addle/Feint because they have a minor clip to their GCD.

The community is so poisoned by the "damage is everything and anything that loses me damage can die in the fire" mindset that it's probably now unsalvageable. To some people, a 95 on the numbers website isn't a good run, it's the baseline.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

[...]The community is so poisoned by the "damage is everything and anything that loses me damage can die in the fire" mindset that it's probably now unsalvageable. To some people, a 95 on the numbers website isn't a good run, it's the baseline.

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In a hindsight, I don't blame that entirely on the community. The devs plays a huge part in reinforcing this ideal when they keep deleting anything that doesn't come down to as simple as "more damage vs less damage" for whatever reason.

It shocks me that expedient survived

Actual true raw utility, in my 14, preposterous

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

In a hindsight, I don't blame that entirely on the community. The devs plays a huge part in reinforcing this ideal when they keep deleting anything that doesn't come down to as simple as "more damage vs less damage" for whatever reason.

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While the devs designed the jobs to enforce this kind of thinking, I can still blame the community for using the funny coloured numbers to boost their own ego or to try and dismiss opposing viewpoints, that kind of attitude can be wholly blamed on the community mentality of "the colour of your number proves your worth as a player".

See: Mr.Spreadsheet

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Dia's potency increased from 75 to 80.

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Woah!

Let's not go crazy now.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

If I could suggest an idea to SE, it'd be this: Drop the hard split, and swap over to a 'sliding scale' system. The better at 'Pure healing' a job is, the less Barrier capability it has, and vice versa. With this, WHM and SCH can be the champions at the far ends of the scale, masters of Pure and Barrier healing respectively, and AST/SGE can be a bit closer to the middle, leaning towards one side, but not fully abandoning the other. With this 'sliding scale', it becomes much easier to slot a new healer in too, eg one could be added that perfectly straddles Pure and Barrier capability, directly in the centre (I'd suggest a gameplay where the Barrier side is achieved by turning a portion of damage taken into a DOT, and the Pure side is achieved by mainly using HOTs to counteract the delayed damage DOT).

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In my previous mmo, there was actually a third option, which was an HoT focused healer. It was very strategic, in a similar way to the shield healers, but you'd stack various HoT's on the tank/party to try to match the damage input. There were a couple instant emergency heals available if you needed them, but which were also grossly inefficient and/or had a very long (5 min) recast. This same job also had a Dot-centric damage model. I actually enjoyed the heck out of it. I'd love to see something like that make an appearance in 14.