BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I give you this one. But if you want to tank why not just play a tank?

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SMN can sort of tank, through titan-egi, so it's not unheard of for DPS to have some situational tank skills.

At this rate Summoner will become the next limited job in Shadowbringers because like Blue Mage it doesn't fit in exactly to its role if they follow the same logic.

What they are doing with blue is quite amazing and I hope they expand on the concept and allow for more varied gameplay. There are ways they could homogenize it to make it easier for the average player to understand. However this could lead us away from the trinity which is always a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

SMN can sort of tank, through titan-egi, so it's not unheard of for DPS to have some situational tank skills.

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Titan was meant for when SMN had to solo for like quests and stuff. Any attempt to tank with Titan in stuff normally gets nerfed. Like Titan tanking Ramuh.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

What they are doing with blue is quite amazing and I hope they expand on the concept and allow for more varied gameplay. There are ways they could homogenize it to make it easier for the average player to understand. However this could lead us away from the trinity which is always a good thing.

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Doing away with the trinity would require a completely different game. It ruins any validity your argument might have had when you basically argue that you wish you were playing a different game.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

What they are doing with blue is quite amazing and I hope they expand on the concept and allow for more varied gameplay. There are ways they could homogenize it to make it easier for the average player to understand. However this could lead us away from the trinity which is always a good thing.

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only amazing is how they got to this stupid idea.
you can do 99% of dungeons and some older trials/ raids on no healer/tank , just bring red / nin / sam.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Titan was meant for when SMN had to solo for like quests and stuff. Any attempt to tank with Titan in stuff normally gets nerfed. Like Titan tanking Ramuh.

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Just saying, a full job BLU could have some situational tank kit (much the same way a few DPS have a bit of healer kit) without being game breaking.

InB4 BLU flops and we get a rework of BLU in 6.0 like they did with BRD for Stormblood.

Interesting discussion. Glad to see an activity spike in this thread after the patch notes.

So the patch notes on BLU really is only more of the same of what we mostly already knew. Things like Eureka, Diadem, PvP, PotD... really shouldn't be a surprise for BLUs not having access to them. If anything, I would have been incredibly surprised for access to even just one of those. No, the one surprising thing on that list of 'restricted access' is the Squadron Missions. Like, really? It's not even allowed in an ARR dungeon full of basic NPCs? That it would have been incredibly difficult to implement BLU alongside NPCs that might get upset over jobclass-balance? So much for literally trying to play the "solo job" on your own to get spells in dungeons.

The other eyebrow-raiser is the Whalaqee totems, of course. Based on how it's worded, it seems like you can only obtain a limited number of these totems, as they seem to only be awarded from a one-time (I'm assuming) quest and certain achievements (also one-time). As to what the achievements are, I dunno, I can only speculate they are either related to the Masked Carnival, Primals, or some other BLU-specific thing. I'm wondering if they are meant to be a fallback for incredibly unlucky BLUs (because face it, it's RNG), or the only way to obtain certain spells (the notes don't specify that). Can't say much about it until I see what spells are up for purchase. On a side note, a Mamool Ja in Ul'dah? What's the story on that?

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Interesting discussion. Glad to see an activity spike in this thread after the patch notes.

So the patch notes on BLU really is only more of the same of what we mostly already knew. Things like Eureka, Diadem, PvP, PotD... really shouldn't be a surprise for BLUs not having access to them. If anything, I would have been incredibly surprised for access to even just one of those. No, the one surprising thing on that list of 'restricted access' is the Squadron Missions. Like, really? It's not even allowed in an ARR dungeon full of basic NPCs? That it would have been incredibly difficult to implement BLU alongside NPCs that might get upset over jobclass-balance? So much for literally trying to play the "solo job" on your own to get spells in dungeons.

The other eyebrow-raiser is the Whalaqee totems, of course. Based on how it's worded, it seems like you can only obtain a limited number of these totems, as they seem to only be awarded from a one-time (I'm assuming) quest and certain achievements (also one-time). As to what the achievements are, I dunno, I can only speculate they are either related to the Masked Carnival, Primals, or some other BLU-specific thing. I'm wondering if they are meant to be a fallback for incredibly unlucky BLUs (because face it, it's RNG), or the only way to obtain certain spells (the notes don't specify that). Can't say much about it until I see what spells are up for purchase. On a side note, a Mamool Ja in Ul'dah? What's the story on that?

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Squadrons are not that surprising considering you can do lvl 60 dungeons on them and Blu is locked at 50. I think the totems are for spells that you can't learn from Mobs. Like the lvl 1 spell you start with and Mighty Guard.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

InB4 BLU flops and we get a rework of BLU in 6.0 like they did with BRD for Stormblood.

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For that to happen people would have to ignore BLU on a massive scale. As in a large number of players would not even unlock it and lvl it. I just don't see that happening. Even if it amounts to nothing, a lot of people would lvl it at some point, since it's quite a few months till Shadowbringers. Say what you want with BLU's design, but they've decided to strategically release it when XIV hits a particularly dry content period. I would've loved a limited job at around 3.5. I mostly took a break around then, expected to do the same with SB. At least BLU gives me a small diversion that I plan on enjoying next to all the usual content.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Squadrons are not that surprising considering you can do lvl 60 dungeons on them and Blu is locked at 50.

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I fail to see how making the dungeons above level 50 unavailable/grayed-out to players currently on BLU wouldn't sidestep this. Is the spaghetti-coding that bad? For me that's like saying "You're not level 50 on this new job you're leveling yet, so since you can't queue-up for Snowcloak you can't queue up for any dungeons from ARR at all until you hit level 50 on it first."

Not being able to do squadrons is baffling.

The totems are probably there as a means for people who suck at this game to get the skills that require completing a difficult solo instance, if I had to guess. Or maybe just as a safeguard against RNG, which is nice.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

At this rate Summoner will become the next limited job in Shadowbringers because like Blue Mage it doesn't fit in exactly to its role if they follow the same logic.

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Lol that would rule so hard.

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Originally Posted by Allistar

I meant as far as Tank Healer DPS...add another role, like support. Jobs whose role would be to provide beneficial buffs or debuffs to party in addition to their dps.

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And it's been an utterly unbalanced pile of shit the entire time. Please keep that garbage out of my cool and good game.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Squadrons are not that surprising considering you can do lvl 60 dungeons on them and Blu is locked at 50. I think the totems are for spells that you can't learn from Mobs. Like the lvl 1 spell you start with and Mighty Guard.

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You're already locked out of doing dungeons on Squadron that you haven't unlocked or are above the level of the class you're attempting to queue with aren't you?

Everyone should be very concerned with BLU becoming a minigame vice a fully realized class. What this tells us is, if the class would be too "difficult" to actually implement in the game, they can just not implement it at all, and instead slap it on as a lazy side activity. If a Job cannot raid, it isn't a Job at all.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

SMN can sort of tank, through titan-egi, so it's not unheard of for DPS to have some situational tank skills.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Just saying, a full job BLU could have some situational tank kit (much the same way a few DPS have a bit of healer kit) without being game breaking.

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Mighty Guard is pretty much just Titan-Egi and Fists of Earth combined. So long as Blue Mage isn't getting any major enmity multiplying spells on top of that, I don't think it's game breaking or even beyond a precedent for DPS already set.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Squadrons are not that surprising considering you can do lvl 60 dungeons on them and Blu is locked at 50.

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Squadrons have no problems with other jobs that are level 50 or below. You only have to be high enough for the dungeon you're trying to enter, so they're level 20 and up (since I think Halatali is the first one available).

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

The thing about that is that it's a strawman. BLU is as much of a job as my BRD is when I go into PVP. Do you see that BRD anywhere outside PVP? No? Me neither. BLU could've been in reverse, where you're locked to a set of skills that they do balance (obtained through totems and quests, which they already put in). The one downside to this I can think of is that BLU is still going to wreck havok on the overworld, but that's a problem of design and shortsight because if BLU is really going to be such a troll, it should've been taken into account anyway.

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Yeah, I actually said this on my original post in this thread when I talked about my concern of balancing. Just that, unless they gave it to us in quests or some other way, it would be messy to implement since it would require you to have certain skills that you'd need to find on your own and Yoshida seemed like he was adamant that we learn everything from mobs. Buuuuuuut, with that idea tossed out the window considering the totems and all.... I guess there's no defense anymore. Not sure what they're thinking, honestly.

I think people are panicking and throwing a B**** fit way too soon over BLU. See what the devs do with it and how it changes going into 4.5 (part2) on into Shadow bringers. If nothing is done with it at least going into Shadow bringers ( i.e making at a full job that can raid etc) then be worried about it. Since its SIGNIFICANTLY different to literally every other job on the roster it from a development standpoint I can see where the difficulty would lay in properly balancing it. Because let's admit it depending on the skills it has its basically EVERY job class Dps, Healer and Tank.

Anyways my two cents on the subject either we can sit here and cry about it being restricted (for now as they have said there are plans to raise its cap in 4.5 part 2 and beyond) or we can let it be and see if they implement it right and it becomes a worthy and helpful part of the job classes. Just remember we have 2 (Possibly 3) classes coming in Shadow bringers I think we should be thinking about what those may be and how they will fit in with current classes rather than a job that will start low but give us a chance to tell the dev team how it can and should be implemented with the other jobs once the expansion launches.

I wouldn't mind being able to play it in actual content..even if they limit it I guess. Either way its whatever, but I can understand how some feel if BLU was their favorite FF job. I would hate to see this happen to Dancer (my favorite) :(

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Originally Posted by Shirosama

I think people are panicking and throwing a B**** fit way too soon over BLU.

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And yet those some people "throwing a fit" have been right again and again. I also don't get where BLU is "SIGNIFICANTLY" different to literally every other job. In fact what is irritating me at the moment is that from what I see we are neither getting an "unlimited Blue Ultimate Class Fantasy" OR an actual fully featured class. Square, as usual, played this as tepidly and safely as possible and this implementation of BLU is nothing but milquetoast mediocrity. Enemies being immune to death, skills being modified from the monster originals, a "soft" forced rotation due to power chaining and MP costs, learning spells from tokens . . . it's like Square had this vision, walked back on almost all of it, and then attempted to justify their design decisions by the thing they THOUGHT they were originally going to design but aren't actually creating anymore.

Well, I guess it could be worse. They could've used the dev time to blow tens of millions on a in-house custom game engine only to scrap it after two games. Baby steps.

This just in from Reddit the full roster of Blue Mages spells has already been datatmined. Obviously take this with a pinch of salt (as with all datamining) and caveat emptor - beware - if you're wanting to avoid potential spoilers for Blue Mage:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...=0&single=true

I'm going to take a look through this as, at the least, it might be a good general idea of what we are (and are not) getting.

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Originally Posted by Elerus

And yet those some people "throwing a fit" have been right again and again. I also don't get where BLU is "SIGNIFICANTLY" different to literally every other job. In fact what is irritating me at the moment is that from what I see we are neither getting an "unlimited Blue Ultimate Class Fantasy" OR an actual fully featured class. Square, as usual, played this as tepidly and safely as possible and this implementation of BLU is nothing but milquetoast mediocrity. Enemies being immune to death, skills being modified from the monster originals, a "soft" forced rotation due to power chaining and MP costs, learning spells from tokens . . . it's like Square had this vision, walked back on almost all of it, and then attempted to justify their design decisions by the thing they THOUGHT they were originally going to design but aren't actually creating anymore.

Well, I guess it could be worse. They could've used the dev time to blow tens of millions on a in-house custom game engine only to scrap it after two games. Baby steps.

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So you've seen what they have down the pike for the implementation of BLU? I mean like you've seen the exact layout of what they are going to do? No? oh ok..., I understand people are "nervous" , "scared" whatever but seriously the instant bashing on how its being implemented is ridiculous at this point and i say that because EVERYTIME a new job has been put in people start these threads complaining and then the job ends up being extremely useful and we see no more issues ( aside from balancing complains which there will always be) until the next set of jobs come out then we'll revisit this same kind of thread. Lest we forget the complaints about AST , SAM, RDM , DRK , MCH , NIN when those first were announced yeah they weren't limited but people had nearly the exact same complaints that they do about BLU to a extent.

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Originally Posted by Elerus

This just in from Reddit the full roster of Blue Mages spells has already been datatmined. Obviously take this with a pinch of salt (as with all datamining) and caveat emptor - beware - if you're wanting to avoid potential spoilers for Blue Mage:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...=0&single=true

I'm going to take a look through this as, at the least, it might be a good general idea of what we are (and are not) getting.

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I bet it will take only a few hours more for the theorycrafters to find what is the best META optimised spells choice and rotations. Since they are for sure working on it right now, they might even be done before the servers are live again XD

And people are wondering why BLU is banned from most of the content... It would kinda be against the job's identity, and totally not fun at all, to be yelled at the evening of BLU release by some random players for not having this skill, and this one, and this one, instead of what you did find and choose yourself.

I can already see what we might have get in the "tales of duty finder" topic :

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15 january : today i did end up in this dungeon with two BLU as dps... Omg, the first one was using that and that and that, and the second this and this... Of course mobs were dying awfully slowly ! Why ? Just why ? A BLU guide has been put on reddit and mooglemedia 6 days before BLU release, why didn't they read it ? Don't they want to improve ? So i was pissed of, and i left... forgetting the new leaving penalty :mad:

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Now that i think of it, it would have been good to read with some pop-corn bags XD

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

It would kinda be against the job's identity, and totally not fun at all, to be yelled at the evening of BLU release by some random players for not having this skill, and this one, and this one, instead of what you did find and choose yourself.

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And yet this will happen anyhow in premades and party finder. The information is out there, readily available, and easily digestible. Square should not be trying to police the playerbase save in instances where it crosses into abuse or exploitation of a game flaw/bug. Having some random on the Internet play the tough guy act just makes me laugh - I work in a local prosecutor's firm so the little squeaky 13 year old having a temper tantrum is just that to me. Gotta be the change you want to see in the world and all that. Honestly, and on a positive note, I've found the community in the game generally pretty good. The few assholes I've encountered have been easily dealt with and swept aside and amounted to a few clicks and a handful of wasted seconds. Not bad at all.

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Originally Posted by Shirosama

So you've seen what they have down the pike for the implementation of BLU? I mean like you've seen the exact layout of what they are going to do? No? oh ok..., I understand people are "nervous" , "scared" whatever but seriously the instant bashing on how its being implemented is ridiculous at this point and i say that because EVERYTIME a new job has been put in people start these threads complaining

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So, to answer in order:

1) Yes! Moreover, as an added bonus you can too by checking the handy link I posted above.

2) Blue Mage is - for better or worse - the first of its kind. It is not a new job, and will never be useful as presently implemented in the same aspects as any of those other real jobs you listed.

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Originally Posted by Shirosama

I think people are panicking and throwing a B**** fit way too soon over BLU. See what the devs do with it and how it changes going into 4.5 (part2) on into Shadow bringers. If nothing is done with it at least going into Shadow bringers ( i.e making at a full job that can raid etc) then be worried about it. Since its SIGNIFICANTLY different to literally every other job on the roster it from a development standpoint I can see where the difficulty would lay in properly balancing it. Because let's admit it depending on the skills it has its basically EVERY job class Dps, Healer and Tank.

Anyways my two cents on the subject either we can sit here and cry about it being restricted (for now as they have said there are plans to raise its cap in 4.5 part 2 and beyond) or we can let it be and see if they implement it right and it becomes a worthy and helpful part of the job classes. Just remember we have 2 (Possibly 3) classes coming in Shadow bringers I think we should be thinking about what those may be and how they will fit in with current classes rather than a job that will start low but give us a chance to tell the dev team how it can and should be implemented with the other jobs once the expansion launches.

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The problem with what you just said is that you are completely ignoring where they straight up said it would never hit full lvl cap at the same time as anything else. You are saying lets wait and hope that they don't do what they already said they are going to do as if they never said they were going to do it. If that comes off as convoluted it's because i'm having to dance around the convolution that is your logic. They have stated that it is not and never will be an actual job. It is a minigame hiding under the title of job. So go ahead and wait to see how a minigame designed by the se devs turns out. Diadem, Verminion, Triple Triad, The Gold Saucer, and for most Chocobo Racing, all dead failures.

The Gold Saucer and TT is dead? That's hilarious. The Gold Saucer is currently more active than Binding Coil, so does that mean Coil should be considered a dead failure? I noticed a trend where people like to equate dead content to things that they don't particularly enjoy.

Can you tell I only did the Squadron missions enough to get the emote and then never did them again? lol sorry for the bad theory. I really did only do enough missions to get the emotes. lol.

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Originally Posted by Lufir

The Gold Saucer and TT is dead? That's hilarious. The Gold Saucer is currently more active than Binding Coil, so does that mean Coil should be considered a dead failure? I noticed a trend where people like to equate dead content to things that they don't particularly enjoy.

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Idk what gold saucer you play in but any time I go in there the only thing that is ever done is the cactpot, jumbo cactpot, people selling cards for mgp to free up inventory space, and people doing fashion report after someone releases what the clothing items are that week on reddit or twitter. That is four activities out of all of the activities available. None of them take more than a few minuets each week. Teleport in, teleport out.

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Originally Posted by Elerus

This just in from Reddit the full roster of Blue Mages spells has already been datatmined. Obviously take this with a pinch of salt (as with all datamining) and caveat emptor - beware - if you're wanting to avoid potential spoilers for Blue Mage:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...=0&single=true

I'm going to take a look through this as, at the least, it might be a good general idea of what we are (and are not) getting.

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Wow... why are like the first 10 spells I read say they come from dungeons that I would have to use a premade party to get... I thought this was a solo job....

I just counted. 25 of 49 abilities come from dungeons or trials... good luck in PF all you BLUs out there.

Looks...far more balanced than originally thought, assuming "has no effect on enemies higher level than your own" is taken to mean equal or higher level. The only spells that would need to be banned or tweaked for parties are White Wind, Diamondback, and Peculiar Light, in my opinion. White Wind having a cap of like a weaker AoE Vercure depending on max HP, Diamondback being like...I dunno, 30-40% instead of 90%, Peculiar Light being ~5-10% instead of 30%.

Also there seem to be some must have spells and kind of a rotation, such as Off-Guard and Moon-Flute for a pretty major burst, Blood Drain for MP, Bristle, etc.

I...don't know how to feel about this. It almost feels like they're giving themselves some future wiggle room for it being balanced or not. Having a...what looks like magical berserker + samurai that gives a magical trick attack is an interesting niche, and it can save some parties through the mighty power of suicide.

I'm not sure...I feel a little more hopeful now, but I could also be really reaching for hope. Thoughts?

Edit: Upon further reflection, I don't take back what I said, but I do understand some trust issues with random Blue Mages blowing up, bee stinging, or gifting themselves to death to troll or at inopportune times. I think a healthy dose of trusting the playerbase is really what I prefer, but I do understand some hesitation on the dev's part, locking some roulettes out for fear of having to raise the suiciding Blue Mage yet again. It definitely does not mean it could never be balanced however.

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Originally Posted by Valdegarde

Looks...far more balanced than originally thought, assuming "has no effect on enemies higher level than your own" is taken to mean equal or higher level. The only spells that would need to be banned or tweaked for parties are White Wind, Diamondback, and Peculiar Light, in my opinion. White Wind having a cap of like a weaker AoE Vercure depending on max HP, Diamondback being like...I dunno, 30-40% instead of 90%, Peculiar Light being ~5-10% instead of 30%.

Also there seem to be some must have spells and kind of a rotation, such as Off-Guard and Moon-Flute for a pretty major burst, Blood Drain for MP, Bristle, etc.

I...don't know how to feel about this. It almost feels like they're giving themselves some future wiggle room for it being balanced or not. Having a...what looks like magical berserker + samurai that gives a magical trick attack is an interesting niche, and it can save some parties through the mighty power of suicide.

I'm not sure...I feel a little more hopeful now, but I could also be really reaching for hope. Thoughts?

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When it says level can't be higher than your own I took that to mean it wouldn't work on Bosses since their levels are ???.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

When it says level can't be higher than your own I took that to mean it wouldn't work on Bosses since their levels are ???.

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This is what I took it to mean as well in addition to YoshiP's earlier comments that Death would only potentially work on "minibosses" in a dungeon. It seems like Death working on actual bosses was off the table for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Valdegarde

Looks...far more balanced than originally thought, assuming "has no effect on enemies higher level than your own" is taken to mean equal or higher level.

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It's worth noting the likelihood that some of these effects won't work on certain bosses without it being outright stated. For example, many bosses are immune to stun, but you won't see "stun is ineffective against certain bosses" mentioned within the description of an ability. During an interview, Yoshida commented on Doom and stated that it won't work against all bosses. I assume we won't be able to walk into the Binding Coil of Bahamut, spam Doom until it works, and walk away with an easy win. It will still work against basic level 50 enemies, but if that ever becomes a concern for endgame balance, it wouldn't be hard for them to adjust its effect to only apply to enemies that are lower level.

Blue Mage really doesn't have that many spells that I would consider problematic for balance. It's mainly just 1000 Needles (at low levels), Diamondback, and White Wind.

So all in all SE is fucked up. It as much solo as eureka. So if you dony rush doing blur day 1 you are fucked. I like how they force " side content ".
What more all the op skills will not work on bosses at all as they got no lvl. Why its limited job?
Blue be a dps as hp/def go, so soloing dungeons befor you like over lvled them by 30 lvls will not be a thing.
How will bleu do 40+ dungeons/fates in a blue party/solo.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

Blue Mage really doesn't have that many spells that I would consider problematic for balance. It's mainly just 1000 Needles (at low levels), Diamondback, and White Wind.

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Actually had a question regarding 1000 Needles. Doesn't the skill say it splits its damage to surrounding enemies? So if there's one target you're getting 1k, two and it's 500 a target, etc. Is that how the skill works for the Cactaur mob? It's been a while since I've intentionally stood in the orange circle but my FF gut instinct is telling me 1000 Needles "thing" was that it dealt 1000 damage, to everyone, regardless of resistances, etc. If so then they really went out of their way to modify this spell.

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Originally Posted by Elerus

Actually had a question regarding 1000 Needles. Doesn't the skill say it splits its damage to surrounding enemies? So if there's one target you're getting 1k, two and it's 500 a target, etc. Is that how the skill works for the Cactaur mob? It's been a while since I've intentionally stood in the orange circle but my FF gut instinct is telling me 1000 Needles "thing" was that it dealt 1000 damage, to everyone, regardless of resistances, etc. If so then they really went out of their way to modify this spell.

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1000 needles is useless once your other spells start doing over that. And that is how the cactuar spells work. It's just that some higher lvl cactuars have 10k needles and 100k needles.

[Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 1,500 while incapacitating self.]

Going to run around Final Sting-ing everything!!

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Originally Posted by Liale

The problem with what you just said is that you are completely ignoring where they straight up said it would never hit full lvl cap at the same time as anything else.

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Too bad that's absolutely not what they said :

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It might be difficult to expect the level cap to reach level 80 during 5.0.

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Game watch: Will BLUs catch up to level 80 during 5.x?
Yoshida: If we keep raising the level cap with that pace, us developers and players will all faint (bitter smile).

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Nothing in there says "never", unless you count the same "never" people assumed when asked if we'd ever have a Blue Mage or if they would ever release a job mid-expansion. At best, it says that it will be difficult to raise the level cap 30 levels higher during the course of 5.x.

But if BLU has its level cap raised by 20 levels while others gains 10 levels, it can be on par with everything in early 6.x.