Square Enix should retire the relic quests with Endwalker

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

There is no sense of achievement which this relic

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This is entirely a you problem from my perspective. There is no difference in feelings of accomplishment for me between this relic and the ARR or the Shadowbringers relics. The main difference is those force me to do something boring or that I don't want to do to make progress on them, but I can choose to make my own fun with these new ones. I'm not boxed into having to do fate spam over and over whiel watching a movie because I'm bored. I'm not forced to run 180 instances of normal raids that don't even use half my kit because they're from previous expansions. If I want to run content and try to make progress on it I can.

I don't see why there's such a problem with the new ones when there is the freedom to choose what you want to do to fulfil it. If you want to do it the "efficient", but boring way of spamming hunt trains over and over to get tomes quickly, no one is going to stop you, but you chose to meeet the criteria that way.
This whole "earned reward" and "sense of achievement" just seems so weird, it's just being used to try to act like something that was never particularly hard should be harder just to satisfy a sense of rarity for what is by all intents and purposes, a casual catchup weapon that doubles as glam.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

This whole "earned reward" and "sense of achievement" just seems so weird, it's just being used to try to act like something that was never particularly hard should be harder just to satisfy a sense of rarity for what is by all intents and purposes, a casual catchup weapon that doubles as glam.

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The current weapon is a case of getting something for virtually nothing. The amount of effort you put into getting one is so low that even their present gimped state is honestly too strong. At least the crafted weapons require you to either make it yourself or shell out some gil. The relics presently equate to little more than "here's a kinda crappy functionally free weapon for otherwise useless tomestones you can accrue passively just by doing content you would have anyway."

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

This is entirely a you problem from my perspective. There is no difference in feelings of accomplishment for me between this relic and the ARR or the Shadowbringers relics. The main difference is those force me to do something boring or that I don't want to do to make progress on them, but I can choose to make my own fun with these new ones. I'm not boxed into having to do fate spam over and over whiel watching a movie because I'm bored. I'm not forced to run 180 instances of normal raids that don't even use half my kit because they're from previous expansions. If I want to run content and try to make progress on it I can.

I don't see why there's such a problem with the new ones when there is the freedom to choose what you want to do to fulfil it. If you want to do it the "efficient", but boring way of spamming hunt trains over and over to get tomes quickly, no one is going to stop you, but you chose to meeet the criteria that way.
This whole "earned reward" and "sense of achievement" just seems so weird, it's just being used to try to act like something that was never particularly hard should be harder just to satisfy a sense of rarity for what is by all intents and purposes, a casual catchup weapon that doubles as glam.

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It's the same in reverse. To us, you finding the content and relic grinds we enjoyed is a you problem. You not finding the accomplishment in those is a you problem. You finding it boring is a you problem.

I don't give a rat's ass if they give people a tome option to get them, I care that it's the actual only method. You can have your method of acquisition and we can have ours.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

I don't give a rat's ass if they give people a tome option to get them, I care that it's the actual only method. You can have your method of acquisition and we can have ours.

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Apparently you do because you keep saying it "means nothing" if people are allowed to use tomes or being able to pick the means to complete them.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

Or we can go back to relic weapons being optional side content and a decent time sink for players who want the glam item since that is really all relics are until you are syncing down to do ultimates.

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100% this.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

It's the same in reverse. To us, you finding the content and relic grinds we enjoyed is a you problem. You not finding the accomplishment in those is a you problem. You finding it boring is a you problem.

I don't give a rat's ass if they give people a tome option to get them, I care that it's the actual only method. You can have your method of acquisition and we can have ours.

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See this makes the most sense to me. Sometimes people just don't want to farm the content, which is fine. The problem is that if tomes are our only options then there is no community around the relic weapons. Say what you will about Eureka and Bozja but they created a pocket of the community where people were able to spend time together and hang out and make memories. Yeah maybe you'll get bored of doing DR over and over, but you'll get bored anyways doing lvl 90 dungeons over and over. And at least when you meet the same faces and get to chatting with them then you start to have a lot more fun. Oh you don't want to talk to people and just want the shiny weapons? Sure fine use the tomes then. Just remember that this is an MMO and it's not a crazy thing to have people play together to earn a reward

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

This is entirely a you problem from my perspective. There is no difference in feelings of accomplishment for me between this relic and the ARR or the Shadowbringers relics. The main difference is those force me to do something boring or that I don't want to do to make progress on them, but I can choose to make my own fun with these new ones. I'm not boxed into having to do fate spam over and over whiel watching a movie because I'm bored. I'm not forced to run 180 instances of normal raids that don't even use half my kit because they're from previous expansions. If I want to run content and try to make progress on it I can.

I don't see why there's such a problem with the new ones when there is the freedom to choose what you want to do to fulfil it. If you want to do it the "efficient", but boring way of spamming hunt trains over and over to get tomes quickly, no one is going to stop you, but you chose to meeet the criteria that way.
This whole "earned reward" and "sense of achievement" just seems so weird, it's just being used to try to act like something that was never particularly hard should be harder just to satisfy a sense of rarity for what is by all intents and purposes, a casual catchup weapon that doubles as glam.

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It was never casual to begin with though? The steps themselves may not have been hard to do, but it still took a committed effort to complete. THIS relic is casual.

An earned rewards and sense of achievement is a pretty standard thing in any game? Do you honestly think it's normal and ok, that you can obtain your next step in a relic, within moments of the patch dropping? You unlock the quest, you buy the 3 items with your already capped Causalities. Is that really great design?

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Apparently you do because you keep saying it "means nothing" if people are allowed to use tomes or being able to pick the means to complete them.

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To me. It means nothing to me. You don't have to care that I think that way. That's the joy of something called opinions.

Pick your own means of getting them if you wish, we shouldn't have entire form of content we enjoy deleted because of it. I have already stated numerous times on these godsforsaken forums that I'm an advocate for branching paths.

Me and many others find absolutely 0 satisfaction in being able to get our relics on launch because they're glorified tome weapons, easier to obtain than what's actually labeled "tome gear weapons".

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

This is entirely a you problem from my perspective. There is no difference in feelings of accomplishment for me between this relic and the ARR or the Shadowbringers relics. The main difference is those force me to do something boring or that I don't want to do to make progress on them, but I can choose to make my own fun with these new ones. I'm not boxed into having to do fate spam over and over whiel watching a movie because I'm bored. I'm not forced to run 180 instances of normal raids that don't even use half my kit because they're from previous expansions. If I want to run content and try to make progress on it I can.

I don't see why there's such a problem with the new ones when there is the freedom to choose what you want to do to fulfil it. If you want to do it the "efficient", but boring way of spamming hunt trains over and over to get tomes quickly, no one is going to stop you, but you chose to meeet the criteria that way.
This whole "earned reward" and "sense of achievement" just seems so weird, it's just being used to try to act like something that was never particularly hard should be harder just to satisfy a sense of rarity for what is by all intents and purposes, a casual catchup weapon that doubles as glam.

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In my opinion the endwalkers relic is lazy and caters to people who don't want to put in any effort. But to say past expansions relics didn't take any effort is disingenuous. The arr relic was actually pretty tough on some of the steps on release during the time especially the hard mode and extreme trials. They weren't handed out like you claim and were actually seen as an achievement back then and showed you dedicated time to it. But the endwalkers relics are the handouts. You might enjoy the endwalkers relics but a lot of people want something to work towards during the downtime between 6.5 and dawntrail and not want something handed to them and these relics provide no long term grind. It's sad that getting a relic handed to you on release when sitting on max tomes for months is considered peak content and gameplay when all you have to do is 10 minutes of hildibrand wow so much grind and work to do.

The endwalker relics are unironically easier to get than tome weapons lol

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

It was never casual to begin with though? The steps themselves may not have been hard to do, but it still took a committed effort to complete. THIS relic is casual.

An earned rewards and sense of achievement is a pretty standard thing in any game? Do you honestly think it's normal and ok, that you can obtain your next step in a relic, within moments of the patch dropping? You unlock the quest, you buy the 3 items with your already capped Causalities. Is that really great design?

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The relics have always been casual, there is no way you can look at me with a straight face and say that doing fate spam is not casual. It's always been casual.
I think this might be the problem here, people who are convinced they aren't casuals are hyping up the old relics as if they were somehow elite to finish them or the relic gatekept people from completing. They didn't. It was an annoyance but it was still casual content.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

To me. It means nothing to me. You don't have to care that I think that way. That's the joy of something called opinions.

Pick your own means of getting them if you wish, we shouldn't have entire form of content we enjoy deleted because of it. I have already stated numerous times on these godsforsaken forums that I'm an advocate for branching paths.

Me and many others find absolutely 0 satisfaction in being able to get our relics on launch because they're glorified tome weapons, easier to obtain than what's actually labeled "tome gear weapons".

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If there was a tome choice you would still bitch on the forums because you are locked into the mindset of taking the path of least resistance. Nothing says you need to do roulete spam and hunt trains to get these tomes, You just choose to do them in ways you find boring because they're fast.
In the hypothetical where both a Eureka-like grind existed and you could also get relics for 1500 tomes you would still avoid the grind and take the tome option.

Because it's not that you want a grind, you don't want other people to have another options that don't involve your content of choice.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

If there was a tome choice you would still bitch on the forums because you are locked into the mindset of taking the path of least resistance. Nothing says you need to do roulete spam and hunt trains to get these tomes, You just choose to do them in ways you find boring because they're fast.
In the hypothetical where both a Eureka-like grind existed and you could also get relics for 1500 tomes you would still avoid the grind and take the tome option.

Because it's not that you want a grind...

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We don't even have the bloody OPTION to get them in any other capacity than tomes.

What I could ACTUALLY do is do the grind option and get other relics with tomes for jobs I barely play on the side. Because then I have the OPTION to get it more than one way.

I want something that needs grinding, the current tome weapon does not need grinding.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

you don't want other people to have another options that don't involve your content of choice

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Maybe if I say it in bigger text you'll actually read it.

I am an advocate for branching paths. Which includes tome acquisition for the people who prefer it.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

We don't even have the bloody OPTION to get them in any other capacity than tomes.

What I could ACTUALLY do is do the grind option and get other relics with tomes for jobs I barely play on the side. Because then I have the OPTION to get it more than one way.

I want something that needs grinding, the current tome weapon does not need grinding.



Maybe if I say it in bigger text you'll actually read it.

I am an advocate for branching paths

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You do have the option to run whatever you want to get these. You have nothing but options. If you want to run anything level 90 it will give you progress towards the relics. Saying it's about options is silly.
The only way your argument can make sense here is if you're somehow actually upset about having options and want a forced long grind instead.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

The relics have always been casual, there is no way you can look at me with a straight face and say that doing fate spam is not casual. It's always been casual.
I think this might be the problem here, people who are convinced they aren't casuals are hyping up the old relics as if they were somehow elite to finish them or the relic gatekept people from completing. They didn't. It was an annoyance but it was still casual content.

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Where did I ever say relics where hard? They took time to acquire and you couldn't obtain one within minutes of a patch releasing.

You seem to have this idea that the people that want relics to return, want to gatekeep anyone from getting a relic. I don't care how many people have a relic. Keep throwing that up as some kind of boogeyman and missing the point completely.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

Where did I ever say relics where hard? They took time to acquire and you couldn't obtain one within minutes of a patch releasing.

You seem to have this idea that the people that want relics to return, want to gatekeep anyone from getting a relic. I don't care how many people have a relic. Keep throwing that up as some kind of boogeyman and missing the point completely.

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It's not a boogeyman, it's what you keep saying over and over again.
"It means nothing now", "These used to mean something". This only gets used in MMOs as a way to try to complain something doesn't gtekeep hard enough. "[Weapon] used to mean something, now everyone has it", "Beating UWU used to mean something now everyone has Ultimate Legend".
No one is making you hoard tomes to get a relic weapon as soon as a patch drops. You are doing something because it is the shortest path available and then getting mad at the devs when you don't feel rewarded for doing the shortest path available.

Don't do it then? Seems like a you problem to be honest. Only the officials could find an issue where the game has a super open ended path to earning a relic, and then complain about it not being restrictive enough by forcing you into content.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

You do have the option to run whatever you want to get these. You have nothing but options. If you want to run anything level 90 it will give you progress towards the relics. Saying it's about options is silly.
The only way your argument can make sense here is if you're somehow actually upset about having options and want a forced long grind instead.

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I know there's options, and your latter statement is only half-right.

I'm not upset about there being options, I've already done those paths for multiple relics. (pvp, hunt trains, etc). However, you are current in me wanting a grind I HAVE to do instead (a la field zone and/or open world methods). I'm an mmo player who loves large-scale content due to the social nature of MMO's, relics served as a conduit in field zones and fates for everyone to get them that way, but that is not here this expansion. I liked feeling the achievement of getting them on top of being able to repeatedly go back into said content for more for X or Y reason. I need goals without shortcuts.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

Do you honestly think it's normal and ok, that you can obtain your next step in a relic, within moments of the patch dropping? You unlock the quest, you buy the 3 items with your already capped Causalities. Is that really great design?

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Actually if youve played enough to cap, then yeah. Its fair.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's not a boogeyman, it's what you keep saying over and over again.
"It means nothing now", "These used to mean something". This only gets used in MMOs as a way to try to complain something doesn't gtekeep hard enough. "[Weapon] used to mean something, now everyone has it", "Beating UWU used to mean something now everyone has Ultimate Legend".
No one is making you hoard tomes to get a relic weapon as soon as a patch drops. You are doing something because it is the shortest path available and then getting mad at the devs when you don't feel rewarded for doing the shortest path available.

Don't do it then? Seems like a you problem to be honest. Only the officials could find an issue where the game has a super open ended path to earning a relic, and then complain about it not being restrictive enough by forcing you into content.

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Could also tell the people who don't want a grind to not do it as well considering no one needed or had to have a relic in the past. The past relics had branching paths and different ways to finish certain steps.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

The relics have always been casual, there is no way you can look at me with a straight face and say that doing fate spam is not casual. It's always been casual.[…]

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Zodiac Zeta & Anima weapons on patch would like to have a word with you lmao.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

I need goals without shortcuts.

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What you need is self-control. If you have to be bound and forced to play a certain way to avoid taking shortcuts you don't want then you have severe self-control issues.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Heres what I think SE should do, keep the 1500 tome weapons, consider it as just catch up gear and call it something else. Bring back a real relic weapon with a very heavy grind, give it plenty of options like Bozja weapon but tie it to nothing specific, make it as an alternative to raid/aug tome weapons bis that you can obtain by at least by every odd patch.

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Honestly I think this is the answer. We have tome weapons but they're locked behind 7 weeks of normal raid final boss drop. They can just dump the token requirement and put the price at 1500 tomes or something and call it a day. They still require Savage raiding or 1.5 patches later 25 man coin drop exchanges before you can upgrade them to their final forms anyway, but they otherwise achieve the same purpose.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

What you need is self-control. If you have to be bound and forced to play a certain way to avoid taking shortcuts you don't want then you have severe self-control issues.

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Right because people need self control to not have capped tomes on a relics release and get it on day one. Sure lets limit how much tomes we get per day so we can purposely prolong getting our relics. Apparently that's everyone's problem is they lack self control and if they didn't sit on capped tomes and get it on release or play the game everyday they be able to prolong how fast they get it.

if players want the grind for the relic they should just choose to grind content and not get the weapon til they hit a set grind goal se doesn't need to force the grind for you to choose to grind.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

What you need is self-control. If you have to be bound and forced to play a certain way to avoid taking shortcuts you don't want then you have severe self-control issues.

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Yes because I obviously lacked self-control doing Bozja and Eureka, despite playing other games while they were current content, pacing my acquisitions and enjoying my time in this content. If you enjoy grinding at your own pace you obviously lack self-control everybody, you heard it here.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

if players want the grind for the relic they should just choose to grind content and not get the weapon til they hit a set grind goal se doesn't need to force the grind for you to choose to grind.

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I get what you're saying but it doesn't really remedy the issue. It isn't our job to make the grinds available for the relics, it just makes it artificial.

Despite my gripes with the current relic acquisition at least the content you run actually helps you get the currency needed to get them.

Obviously we should just turn FFXIV into a complete sandbox MMO with no content and it's up to us, as players, to create our own content. Peak content design.

We can also turn crafting/gathering relics into scrip exchanges. Cap your purple scrips at 4000 and then get your relic on patch day. Awesome.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

I get what you're saying but it doesn't really remedy the issue. It isn't our job to make the grinds available for the relics, it just makes it artificial.

Despite my gripes with the current relic acquisition at least the content you run actually helps you get the currency needed to get them.

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if the grinds weren't artificial to begin with i could agree with it's not a remedy to the situation but the grinds are always just some random thing added to content and bam just grind it.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Heres what I think SE should do, keep the 1500 tome weapons, consider it as just catch up gear and call it something else. Bring back a real relic weapon with a very heavy grind, give it plenty of options like Bozja weapon but tie it to nothing specific, make it as an alternative to raid/aug tome weapons bis that you can obtain by at least by every odd patch.

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This isn't a bad idea either. I'd offer up the stance they could make the current tome weapons this and just increase the tome cap (which at this stage is sorely needed anyway) as well, but I see the merit in making a separate relic weapon. It would satisfy both audiences.

Maybe to ease the dev time, they could be more or less the same weapon, but with different glows/auras? maybe the version that requires a heavy grind can have a customizable aura? Not sure if that would be possible though

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

if the grinds weren't artificial to begin with i could agree with it's not a remedy to the situation but the grinds are always just some random thing added to content and bam just grind it.

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I think you're missing my point. What I'm saying is the grind should be a part of the process, not just some artificial restriction you place on yourself for some reason.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

What you need is self-control. If you have to be bound and forced to play a certain way to avoid taking shortcuts you don't want then you have severe self-control issues.

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What a take

Yes technically you can make yourself a goal of doing HoH 1000 times and then start using your relic

the question is : Why ?

The grind should be in the game, not made up by the players.

If we go down that road, why even have any content at all ? After all you can make goals for yourself right ?

For example, if I run from Uldah to Northern Thanalaan, I would get an ultimate weapon.

It's all about choice right ? So can I just race there and get an ultimate weapon ? Thank you, I will be awaiting my ultimate weapon in my letterbox.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

I think you're missing my point. What I'm saying is the grind should be a part of the process, not just some artificial restriction you place on yourself for some reason.

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no i understood that what i am saying is the grind has to be something original and not something tacked onto content like it always has been. it's been artificial the whole time. all they do is take a piece of content and throw a item you need for the weapon in it.

it's like the idea that varient dungeons would be better if they put a item needed for the relic in it. the content wouldn't change or be different in any way and the relic wouldn't gain anything from it. the grind would then exist but it would be fake and artificial. (this is only an example)

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

no i understood that what i am saying is the grind has to be something original and not something tacked onto content like it always has been. it's been artificial the whole time. all they do is take a piece of content and throw a item you need for the weapon in it.

it's like the idea that varient dungeons would be better if they put a item needed for the relic in it. the content wouldn't change or be different in any way and the relic wouldn't gain anything from it. the grind would then exist but it would be fake and artificial. (this is only an example)

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it's been artificial the whole time. all they do is take a piece of content and throw a item you need for the weapon in it.

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Are you saying doing content in the game actually gets you... rewards ?

Who would have thought ?

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

As a survivor of Barrens Chat way back in Vanilla, this made me laugh.

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WoW was toxic to begin with considering it was mainly populated by "B-Net brats".

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

no i understood that what i am saying is the grind has to be something original and not something tacked onto content like it always has been. it's been artificial the whole time. all they do is take a piece of content and throw a item you need for the weapon in it.

it's like the idea that varient dungeons would be better if they put a item needed for the relic in it. the content wouldn't change or be different in any way and the relic wouldn't gain anything from it. the grind would then exist but it would be fake and artificial. (this is only an example)

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I think we just have different ideas on what's artificial.

Artificial in my eyes here is that the grind has no relevance to the relic, you aren't getting anything from it. If the grind actually does progress the relic then it isn't fake, it's quite literally there. The relic being tied to variant dungeons would by default increase the completion rates of variant because it would be needed to progress it. There isn't anything artificial or fake there, it's literally A grind.

That being said...how are you going to make it NOT tacked onto content that isn't just tomes, which, mind, you need to run content for? It worked for eureka and bozja because it makes natural progression, as you're playing through the content and can work on your relic while you are playing through it to begin with. There's nothing inherently bad about that unless you don't like said content, to which I'm going to repeat what is endlessly repeated, just don't run it? That's why I advocate for multiple paths. I agree that it should be accessible to people, I don't agree that it should come at the cost of removing content that a lot of people liked.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

The relic being tied to variant dungeons would by default increase the completion rates of variant because it would be needed to progress it. There isn't anything artificial or fake there, it's literally A grind.

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it would be completely artificial cause it adds nothing to the content. saying you have to do this doesn't make not liked content better it just forces players to slough through it. if anything SE can make original content that adds grinds but doesn't just pretend to be content by saying just rerun this a bunch.

if i can just pretend to grind content anyways there is no difference besides someones perspective of the situation.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Are you saying doing content in the game actually gets you... rewards ?

Who would have thought ?

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ah yes lets just put all future rewards behind old content instead of new orginal content add a requirement to run it a bunch and say it's all swell.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

it would be completely artificial cause it adds nothing to the content. saying you have to do this doesn't make not liked content better it just forces players to slough through it.

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Eureka and Bozja was well liked and enjoyable, it not being for everybody does not refute this absolute truth no matter how hard you plead otherwise. (Eureka was a bit mixed back in the day but people have since come around)

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

if anything SE can make original content that adds grinds but doesn't just pretend to be content by saying just rerun this a bunch.

if i can just pretend to grind content anyways there is no difference besides someones perspective of the situation.

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You...would still need to run the content repeatedly...if it's grindable content, which by your logic is artificial, with the only difference being that it's a new form of content they haven't tried yet. You're defeating your own argument.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

ah yes lets just put all future rewards behind old content instead of new orginal content add a requirement to run it a bunch and say it's all swell.

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Literally no one here is asking for them to put Dawntrail (and beyond) relics directly into eureka and bozja, we're asking for a new field zone

Also, I think it should be current expansion content being needed for the relic to begin with, even without field zones in the picture. We shouldn't be relying on old expansions to provide current expansion content longevity unless it's mixed in, not dominating it.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

Eureka and Bozja was well liked and enjoyable, it not being for everybody does not refute this absolute truth no matter how hard you plead otherwise. (Eureka was a bit mixed back in the day but people have since come around)
You...would still need to run the content repeatedly...if it's grindable content, which by your logic is artificial, with the only difference being that it's a new form of content they haven't tried yet. You're defeating your own argument.

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eureka and bozja has always been disliked and while i enjoy the content myself the relic added nothing at all to the content you can remove it and it would do nothing to the content at all. a new exploration zone can be added without the need of relics.

you seem stuck on the grind part i never said grinds are fake i said repeating old content and not adding content is fake and artificial. you can easily make content that is relic specific and not just content with relic thrown in it.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

Literally no one here is asking for them to put Dawntrail (and beyond) relics directly into eureka and bozja, we're asking for a new field zone

Also, I think it should be current expansion content being needed for the relic to begin with, even without field zones in the picture. We shouldn't be relying on old expansions to provide current expansion content longevity unless it's mixed in, not dominating it.

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i just want to say i was being exagerative because instead of addin anything they just want to shock post and say whatever instead of actively participating. also i wasn't talking about relics i was meaning all rewards from now on.


i agree we should be making content for the relic not making the relic for content. i believe if you need the relic to make the content liked or considered good the content wasn't that good to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

eureka and bozja has always been disliked and while i enjoy the content myself the relic added nothing at all to the content you can remove it and it would do nothing to the content at all. a new exploration zone can be added without the need of relics.

you seem stuck on the grind part i never said grinds are fake i said repeating old content and not adding content is fake and artificial. you can easily make content that is relic specific and not just content with relic thrown in it.

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Man I could go on and on but literally every single piece of content will have people who dislike it. That literally can not be disputed. The content is liked it really is not so one-sided as you are making it out to be.

I agree that exploration zone's don't need relics tied to it but I'm not here saying it has to be the only avenue of acquiring them either.

Why does it have to be relic specific content? It doesn't have to be. Having the relic in field zones on top of the other rewards it can give you is part of what makes it so long-lasting.

Like, I'm not against relic specific content completely, but it's much easier on dev time to put it in content where it fits and can be acquired like field zones or the open world and current content like with ARR and HW relics.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

What a take

Yes technically you can make yourself a goal of doing HoH 1000 times and then start using your relic

the question is : Why ?

The grind should be in the game, not made up by the players.

If we go down that road, why even have any content at all ? After all you can make goals for yourself right ?

For example, if I run from Uldah to Northern Thanalaan, I would get an ultimate weapon.

It's all about choice right ? So can I just race there and get an ultimate weapon ? Thank you, I will be awaiting my ultimate weapon in my letterbox.

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That's not even close to what I'm saying, I set my own goals in the game. I run MINE content, I use special gear combos to run content on old levels of power. The challenge is fun.
I run content blind because it's fun. I don't ask for the game to box me into something to grind, I take what exists in the game and make it my goal.

If you need the devs to lock relics behind fate grinds because you want to run 100 fates but won't do it unless it's the only way or the easiest way to earn it, that's weird. If you want to do old content but need the devs to give you an exclusive reward for doing old content, that's weird. If you need the devs to not offer alternate ways to earn relics because you have no self control and will run the shortest path through the grind every time even if you hate it that's weird.
These forums are one of the few places I've seen people complain about too many options to unlock content. You can do literally whatever you want and in that field of choices, you choose the fastest, easiest way and then get mad at Square Enix for allowing you to do that to yourself and for making it too easy.

It's like someone booting up dark souls, grabbing the most broken tools imaginable, and then being mad at the developers for not forcing them to run it with a more difficult to use build. You chose this out of a wide variety of options. It's not up to the developers to put up kiddie rails to keep you from chasing the fastest path to the end and then being mad at yourself when it's too easy. Everything at level 90 gives tomes, pick the thing you like and do that to have fun, and progress your relic.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

That's not even close to what I'm saying, I set my own goals in the game. I run MINE content, I use special gear combos to run content on old levels of power. The challenge is fun.
I run content blind because it's fun. I don't ask for the game to box me into something to grind, I take what exists in the game and make it my goal.

If you need the devs to lock relics behind fate grinds because you want to run 100 fates but won't do it unless it's the only way or the easiest way to earn it, that's weird. If you want to do old content but need the devs to give you an exclusive reward for doing old content, that's weird. If you need the devs to not offer alternate ways to earn relics because you have no self control and will run the shortest path through the grind every time even if you hate it that's weird.
These forums are one of the few places I've seen people complain about too many options to unlock content. You can do literally whatever you want and in that field of choices, you choose the fastest, easiest way and then get mad at Square Enix for allowing you to do that to yourself and for making it too easy.

It's like someone booting up dark souls, grabbing the most broken tools imaginable, and then being mad at the developers for not forcing them to run it with a more difficult to use build. You chose this out of a wide variety of options. It's not up to the developers to put up kiddie rails to keep you from chasing the fastest path to the end and then being mad at yourself when it's too easy. Everything at level 90 gives tomes, pick the thing you like and do that to have fun, and progress your relic.

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You are literally telling people they should make it difficult on themselves or grind for it for... no reason at all

That's like getting savage gear and telling yourself "I am not using it until I've done savage 10 times" Just why ?

it's absolutely ridiculous lol, stop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

You are literally telling people they should make it difficult on themselves or grind for it for... no reason at all

That's like getting savage gear and telling yourself "I am not using it until I've done savage 10 times" Just why ?

it's absolutely ridiculous lol, stop.

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Not immediately chasing the shortest path through all content when given a choice is akin to not using gear you already have?
This is absolutely ridiculous, you seriously can't be this bad reading that this is what you took away from my post right?