Learn your history lesson: Witch Hunts DO cause innocents to be banned

I think it should be mentioned that just because there was a witch hunt doesn't mean SE should stop upholding their tos just for specific cases like that. That is the definition of selective enforcement.

SE is not "siding" with 5chan or anyone, they are merely upholding their rules they have set since forever ago.

If someone is publicly broadcasting their add-ons, feel free to report them. Or don't. But don't go condemning SE for enforcing their tos that Yoshi-P specifically went out of his way to mention that yes, it still exists.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

this is funny. I hate addons a lot, and feel they are cheating. I am in no way Japanese.

its not a culture clash at all.. WoW made it virtually mandatory to run mods because it was about the only way to get any QoL improvements to play the game. period. the western player base is not more "liberal" its that they are used to using them without repercussions. in fact, many western players think theirs is the ONLY way a game should be run. They could care less about any other part of the world. I am sure you have been around forums long enough to realize this.

This is a Japanese game, run by a Japanese company. its theirs, end of story. It will typically be run under a Japanese culture. the clash is basically... westerners, especially in the US, fail to realize this.

Personally, I like their stance on addons. I would love it if they actually did more about the bots and the gil buyers but time will tell. western players dont need "slack", they need a dose of reality and the idea that the world does not revolve around them.

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same could be said for jp

it doesn't matter that this game is japanese - it is considered a global game making earnings globally in a gaming industry which is ... global. And consdering eu and na combined outnumber jp (which these forums love to glorify), running a game based on culture gets you where we are now.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

You do know that one of the main cheat programs is CB, and that runs through ACT specifically, right? Aren't you contradicting yourself here?

How do you tell people ACT is ok but CB that runs through ACT is not? How do you seperate these things?

I'm dying to know.

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ACT = Combat Log translated to be easily viewed

Cactbot = Minimal human error callout that reads timeline and/or combat log actively for set action

I'm guessing what cactbot does, am unsure what it does besides being able to call out in real time for missed positionals, raid buffs and invulns. Or have it yell at you similar to the halone thing.

I have no clue how it's setup, if you meant can it be separated, you have to go out of your way to setup cactbot.
So... in that sense, it's separated, otherwise, it'll obviously be tied to ACT as it read logs.

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Originally Posted by Inanegrain

ACT = Combat Log translated to be easily viewed

Cactbot = Minimal human error callout that reads timeline and/or combat log actively for set action

I'm guessing what cactbot does, am unsure what it does besides being able to call out in real time for missed positionals, raid buffs and invulns. Or have it yell at you similar to the halone thing.

I have no clue how it's setup, if you meant can it be separated, you have to go out of your way to setup cactbot.
So... in that sense, it's separated, otherwise, it'll obviously be tied to ACT as it read logs.

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Boss fights are almost entirely scripted which is why cactbot is honestly not a big deal to me.
People have written up an entire timeline of mechanics to the very second that it happens.
Cactbot is just a realtime version of that.

If I had to guess once the boss is engaged, cactbot simply begins a countdown to the next mechanic which happens the exact same time on each pull because all the boss fights are scripted. *but* cactbot does cheat imo at some parts - it can record RNG mechanics.

look at a timeline or to run cactbot ? (known data)
ook at combat log or to run act ? (known data)
insta designate/lay markers during a 20minute ultimate fight where there are no checkpoints ? (dynamic data that imo crosses into cheating as the devs did not intend players to be able to do this and addressed it properly)


there is a line between cheating and QoL and SE needs to set it straight rather than these dumbh sternly written LLs

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

I would agree that doxxing is a pretty shitty thing to do, not to mention illegal.

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Its legal in japan.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RoA5QEm8fc&t=156s

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Wait are you literally encouraging people to cheat but hide it, rather than not cheat at all?

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I put a gun to everyone's head that actively use mods and told them to stfu about using mods. They all complied and there was great rejoicing and even a standing ovation. I was given keys to the city and YoshiP personally thanked me for ending the fiasco and even went as far as allowing me to name my future firstborn after him.

...and then I woke up.


Sorry for the snark but the usage of the word "literally" correct or not causes me to have a verbal seizure. Literally.

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Originally Posted by gotaname1

Its legal in japan.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RoA5QEm8fc&t=156s

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We aren't in Japan? And regardless of the legalities it's immorally reprehensible.

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

We aren't in Japan? And regardless of the legalities it's immorally reprehensible.

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They meant the victim, who are in japan. Only thing I know for sure was that the mob started before raiding was involved. Yes it's bad.

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Originally Posted by Inanegrain

ACT = Combat Log translated to be easily viewed

Cactbot = Minimal human error callout that reads timeline and/or combat log actively for set action

I'm guessing what cactbot does, am unsure what it does besides being able to call out in real time for missed positionals, raid buffs and invulns. Or have it yell at you similar to the halone thing.

I have no clue how it's setup, if you meant can it be separated, you have to go out of your way to setup cactbot.
So... in that sense, it's separated, otherwise, it'll obviously be tied to ACT as it read logs.

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The point being, is it's not just a parser you would be approving. It also includes all add-ons (from within) ACT that you can get.
CB can announce how to handle mechanics before you even see them on the screen for example, most prevalent is UCOB handling Nael Mechanics or UWU handling Titan Gaols.
There's quick setup guides on youtube. So I'm just saying, if you say yes to ACT, you are equally saying yes to CB because CB NEEDS ACT to even work and CB is largely considered one of the main cheating tools.
Unless for some reason you believe that we should trust the playerbase to not take advantage of ACT in it's fullest once if it is "approved".

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Originally Posted by Kazimere

You’re wasting your time with these types of people. They think themselves virtuous all while not being able to see the forest from the trees.

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Some of them probably are but just want to virtue signal.

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Originally Posted by Vencio

This is the solely reason why I am hesistant to engage on savage raiding altogether,

I don’t anyone to dictate my DPS meter, tank percentage or healing burst statistics whatever etc., just follow the mechanics accordingly & have fun,

Being a console player made me far appreciate the game as it is & I just can’t be bothered to have more additional assets that would over eclipse my idea of fun & make it a chore due to supremacy’s sake.

I left WoW because of that & while not surprised, it’s disheartening certain individuals still resorts into engaging on such activities that which upset them enough once upon being caught.

Why not just play the game as it is?

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Originally Posted by anhaato

If none of this is relevant to you then why are you concerning yourself with this at all? This goes for all the non raiders in all of these threads.

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If I'm understanding it correctly, there is some nuance to what Vencio is saying here that should not be dismissed out of hand: 1) that as a console player and someone who wants to play the game as designed, Vencio finds the prevalence of mods in FFXIV raid groups to be alienating, and 2) that the mod-based/DPS meter raiding culture in WoW led Vencio to quit that game because it destroyed the fun.

It might be a good idea to get back onto the original thread topic though, as there are lots of threads debating the pros and cons of mods, etc..

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

The point being, is it's not just a parser you would be approving. It also includes all add-ons (from within) ACT that you can get.
CB can announce how to handle mechanics before you even see them on the screen for example, most prevalent is UCOB handling Nael Mechanics or UWU handling Titan Gaols.
There's quick setup guides on youtube. So I'm just saying, if you say yes to ACT, you are equally saying yes to CB because CB NEEDS ACT to even work and CB is largely considered one of the main cheating tools.
Unless for some reason you believe that we should trust the playerbase to not take advantage of ACT in it's fullest once if it is "approved".

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Keep in mind that if I'm recalling correctly Neverend also programmed call outs into their ACT as they went on. You may argue that since they had to do it themselves it doesn't matter but ultimately it would speed their progress.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Some of them probably are but just want to virtue signal.

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Pot meet kettle. Aren't you basically doing the same?

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

I put a gun to everyone's head that actively use mods and told them to stfu about using mods. They all complied and there was great rejoicing and even a standing ovation. I was given keys to the city and YoshiP personally thanked me for ending the fiasco and even went as far as allowing me to name my future firstborn after him.

...and then I woke up.


Sorry for the snark but the usage of the word "literally" correct or not causes me to have a verbal seizure. Literally.

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Canadane is undoubtedly a font of FFXIV wisdom and "literally" seems to be accurate (if perhaps unnecessary) in responding to "hide your mod usage." But I still laughed at SenorPatty's response even though it in no way refutes Canadane's point.

Overuse of "to be honest" (do I usually lie? It should probably be "to be frank" or perhaps "to be brutally honest") and of "literally" (especially when used ironically or hyperbolically to mean "figuratively" or as a meaningless intensifier - thankfully not in this case) are terrible vices that have somehow wormed their way into my brain. Figuratively.

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Originally Posted by Avenger

Canadane is undoubtedly a font of FFXIV wisdom and "literally" seems to be accurate (if perhaps unnecessary) in responding to "hide your mod usage." But I still laughed at SenorPatty's response even though it in no way refutes Canadane's point.

Overuse of "to be honest" (do I usually lie? It should probably be "to be frank" or perhaps "to be brutally honest") and of "literally" (especially when used ironically or hyperbolically to mean "figuratively" or as a meaningless intensifier - thankfully not in this case) are terrible vices that have somehow wormed their way into my brain. Figuratively.

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I'm reading this and I'm giggling a little bit too but you're right about two things: I didn't actually answer properly and Canadane is one of the few voices of reason so I'll answer properly. Before that though, I need to get this out of the way: there are people who are going to consider any form of modding a cheat. I'm not here to argue that but I will say that I have my own definitions as well and as such when I use the word "mod" here, I refer to mods that do not directly impact someone else (like gshade or hat mod for viera/hrotgar).

I'm not encouraging cheating or to hide cheating, as Canadane literally(ugh, spasms). I'm encouraging modders--who are not going to stop modding no matter what anyone says--to be quiet about usage. That also includes broadcasting it, streaming it, showing it to public. Every year, for some reason, someone just can't help themselves and they go a step further and every year, SE and YoshiP have to be like "Guys, please cmon, don't make do this." And the faceless mob that have a hateboner for all things modding are cackling with a maniacal laugh and can't wait to (socially) execute those they manage to catch.

So yeah, if you feel like all modding is cheating, then I can't stop you from feeling that I'm encouraging people to cheat. If you want to ask me which mods/tools I think that cheat or not, that's unfortunately not a discussion that I would engage here on the forums.

He had suspended his account once for using straight up cheating mods. He did this again. People may be harrasing him from a long time, but so far SE didn't took action as far as he was using only the small addons that most players use. He got banned this time, suspiciously when he was using the exact same mods that were used by the other banned streamers.

Let me tell you how Square Enix works. I did some missbihavior in one feast match by spamming "hello" after a guy stopped playing and started spaming it. Less than 24 hours I got warning (not automated) by square enix explaining me pretty clear what exactly happened and why I got warning (I believe the guy that started the toxicisity got suspended for 10 days). So from my expirience, you don't need mass report, only one is enough and if they see error, they react. This guy got his account suspended once for using addons giving him unfair advantage, he did it again, no tears shared.

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Originally Posted by Avenger

If I'm understanding it correctly, there is some nuance to what Vencio is saying here that should not be dismissed out of hand: 1) that as a console player and someone who wants to play the game as designed, Vencio finds the prevalence of mods in FFXIV raid groups to be alienating, and 2) that the mod-based/DPS meter raiding culture in WoW led Vencio to quit that game because it destroyed the fun.

It might be a good idea to get back onto the original thread topic though, as there are lots of threads debating the pros and cons of mods, etc..

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to be fair, mods were kind of required in WoW. the UI is dogshit and Blizzard has made zero efforts on their part to fix the problem.

FFXIV by comparison is significantly better, if not a little dated. the 14 devs already have plans to update and improve the UI, so they're already in a much better position than the WoW team ever was

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

The point being, is it's not just a parser you would be approving. It also includes all add-ons (from within) ACT that you can get.
CB can announce how to handle mechanics before you even see them on the screen for example, most prevalent is UCOB handling Nael Mechanics or UWU handling Titan Gaols.
There's quick setup guides on youtube. So I'm just saying, if you say yes to ACT, you are equally saying yes to CB because CB NEEDS ACT to even work and CB is largely considered one of the main cheating tools.
Unless for some reason you believe that we should trust the playerbase to not take advantage of ACT in it's fullest once if it is "approved".

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Doesn't cactbot just call out the mechanics and show you a timer for them. I can do the same thing by having a guide pulled up with a timer on a second monitor. Because everything is so heavily scripted in these boss fight's you don't really need cactbot to know what is coming up. The only thing I could see this helping with would be world first races, but you would still have to program in the triggers in order to get any use from it. So if no one has seen the fight, no one can put the triggers in. Every one is over worried that these sort of mods are going to ruin the game. The only way these mods will ruin the game is if the developers start basing the fights off the assumption everyone is using cactbot, which is never going to happen.

Here is an example of a guide that shows all timers for when mechanics will go off. https://www.akhmorning.com/raids/p2s/#timeline
You still have to know what to do, and what you are doing which still requires some form of skill.

I am curious if it works with mechanics that are RNG based?

Over all the simplest solution is put some of this stuff in the game. Give players a personal DPS meter, put some of the common UI mods in (hopefully this one will actually happen but SE will find a way to mess it up.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Doesn't cactbot just call out the mechanics and show you a timer for them. I can do the same thing by having a guide pulled up with a timer on a second monitor.

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Even if you have timer and guide, human error is a huge factor. Delay in calls, mistakes, there are mechanics that the thing call out exactly what version it is instantly, that is absolutely not possible for human. Pretty much it is exactly what cheating is :P

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Originally Posted by Grebeny

Even if you have timer and guide, human error is a huge factor. Delay in calls, mistakes, there are mechanics that the thing call out exactly what version it is instantly, that is absolutely not possible for human. Pretty much it is exactly what cheating is :P

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Human error can still happen with perfect call outs too... so again, how is it cheating when I can do the same thing with a second monitor with out the use of an in game add on.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Human error can still happen with perfect call outs too... so again, how is it cheating when I can do the same thing with a second monitor with out the use of an in game add on.

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Stop trying to play dumb. Having a mechanic called out for you before it even shows up on the screen is significantly affecting gameplay for everyone. Literally a mechanic like Naels speech is entirely eroded to nothing since no one needs to check the chat queues, something the fight was designed around. If one person does these callouts for the group, great but there is still a human that needs to not only check, but make the correct callout WHILE handling mechanics and positioning themselves correctly.

Hell if you watch most streamers, if you ever see them attempt the Nael mechanic without callouts, you'll see how much they mess up consistently compared to when they have them. And that's the decisive difference.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Doesn\\'t cactbot just call out the mechanics and show you a timer for them. I can do the same thing by having a guide pulled up with a timer on a second monitor. Because everything is so heavily scripted in these boss fight\\'s you don\\'t really need cactbot to know what is coming up. The only thing I could see this helping with would be world first races, but you would still have to program in the triggers in order to get any use from it. So if no one has seen the fight, no one can put the triggers in. Every one is over worried that these sort of mods are going to ruin the game. The only way these mods will ruin the game is if the developers start basing the fights off the assumption everyone is using cactbot, which is never going to happen.

Here is an example of a guide that shows all timers for when mechanics will go off. https://www.akhmorning.com/raids/p2s/#timeline
You still have to know what to do, and what you are doing which still requires some form of skill.

I am curious if it works with mechanics that are RNG based?

Over all the simplest solution is put some of this stuff in the game. Give players a personal DPS meter, put some of the common UI mods in (hopefully this one will actually happen but SE will find a way to mess it up.

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In WoW the developers started designing the game around mods and its what made those raids terrible. This will happen if such mods were allowed. Otherwise the raids would be so piss easy becaise of the mods the game would suffer because of it.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Doesn't cactbot just call out the mechanics and show you a timer for them.

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yes, so in fights where there are two mechanics that each have a 50/50 chance to appear (think scythe/axe in shiva savage) the difficulty of the mechanic is identifying the animation and then acting accordingly, not the solution itself.

in short, having a plugin do that for you is essentially skipping a mechanic in those cases. arguably so is having the callout in discord, but the callout guy could still be wrong and has to learn the mechanic to begin with

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Originally Posted by Seger

Or you know... don't cheat.

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People should think a little before typing things out. It will make you look more intelligent.

But anyways you should perhaps mind your business as to what someone has on their OWN COMPUTER. If someone has ACT that is their business, if they are using chat bubble mods that is their business, If they want to mod to get a hat on their Hrothgar then that is their business. And using those aren't cheating. People just need to stay in their own lane and stop all the nosey and digging into what is on people's computers.

Now those streamers streaming and using the mods on screen...well those streamers are just stupid and dumb.

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

/checks notes



/stares at reply



But this ban was apparently ruled in favor of potentially questionable material. So no. It's literally not that simple especially when that kind of mentality is involved.

Tell me, what is your take on witch hunts?

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Ummmmmm. Yes it is that simple. What you have on your computer IS YOUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS. NO ONE ELSE'S. No one will give care about a player until they see that they are showing all their mess on screen. until then a person being quiet won't draw attention. Unless the Karen's are going after those minding their own business. But I know some Karen's are narcissistic like that.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

Stop trying to play dumb. Having a mechanic called out for you before it even shows up on the screen is significantly affecting gameplay for everyone. Literally a mechanic like Naels speech is entirely eroded to nothing since no one needs to check the chat queues, something the fight was designed around. If one person does these callouts for the group, great but there is still a human that needs to not only check, but make the correct callout WHILE handling mechanics and positioning themselves correctly.

Hell if you watch most streamers, if you ever see them attempt the Nael mechanic without callouts, you'll see how much they mess up consistently compared to when they have them. And that's the decisive difference.

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Practice makes perfect. Again it seems that many people are ignoring the fact that a lot of this crap is done hour 80+ hours to complete and players simplify it to they cleared because add ons nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

yes, so in fights where there are two mechanics that each have a 50/50 chance to appear (think scythe/axe in shiva savage) the difficulty of the mechanic is identifying the animation and then acting accordingly, not the solution itself.

in short, having a plugin do that for you is essentially skipping a mechanic in those cases. arguably so is having the callout in discord, but the callout guy could still be wrong and has to learn the mechanic to begin with

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Does cactbot actually give you information the game does not already give you, or something a guide with timers can give you? Again these fights are heavily scripted which is why I asked if cactbot can even call out RNG mechanics, or if it gives a general idea of x y or z at X:XX.

Ideally if you practice enough, call outs become more of a leisure to be lazy.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Practice makes perfect. Again it seems that many people are ignoring the fact that a lot of this crap is done hour 80+ hours to complete and players simplify it to they cleared because add ons nothing else.



Does cactbot actually give you information the game does not already give you, or something a guide with timers can give you. Again these fights are heavily scripted which is why I asked if cactbot can even call out RNG mechanics, or if it gives a general idea of x y or z at X:XX.

Ideally if you practice enough, call outs become more of a leisure to be lazy.

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I don't know how you can translate "gives you callout and even solution before the mechanic even shows up" as "gives you info the game gives you anyway". Or how you don't realize that automated call outs require infinitely less attention and juggling than doing a fight and looking up the guide on second monitor or even just memorizing it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Does cactbot actually give you information the game does not already give you, or something a guide with timers can give you. Again these fights are heavily scripted which is why I asked if cactbot can even call out RNG mechanics, or if it gives a general idea of x y or z at X:XX.

Ideally if you practice enough, call outs become more of a leisure to be lazy.

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Cactbot can do things like pull combatant coordinates out of the network log, do math on it and then instantaneously call out safespots for mechanics with fairly involved reads. It can compile multiple events, like during 5head in EX3, and make conclusions based on multiple random ques. It's not just reading out a timeline, it's actively collecting information and solving mechanics without the involvement of a human.

Not to mention, there are quite a few RNG mechanics Cactbot can read before they are actually visible on the client.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

I don't know how you can translate "gives you callout and even solution before the mechanic even shows up" as "gives you info the game gives you anyway". Or how you don't realize that automated call outs require infinitely less attention and juggling than doing a fight and looking up the guide on second monitor or even just memorizing it

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But it doesn't give you a solution before the mechanic shows up. Also how many people are 1 shotting ultimate, or savage because of cactbot? When this starts happening sure I would maybe consider this as a possible concern. Personally I don't care if people are using cactbot to get there clears, and I am not sure why everyone else is concerned. This add on will never be a requirement to do content, and will never affect the playerbase unless the devs create the content with the intention of players using cactbot which they are not doing.

Edit: Nevermind I guess Lil Imp said it does. I really don't know what all cactbot can do outside of calls, nor do I really care over all.

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Originally Posted by Darksummoner

Ummmmmm. Yes it is that simple. What you have on your computer IS YOUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS. NO ONE ELSE'S. No one will give care about a player until they see that they are showing all their mess on screen. until then a person being quiet won't draw attention. Unless the Karen's are going those minding their own business. But I know some Karen's are narcissistic like that.

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Hi. I never said anything about programs on PC not being anyone else's business. You DO make it everyone else's business when you stream your content without hiding mods.

I said I'm against witch-hunts and doxing regardless of people using 3rd party assistance tools such as ACT and not hiding them in their streams.

However, you broadcast on Twitch and choose to display your add ons, you're painting a target on your back. Stealth is literally out the window at this point Despite people using parses and broadcasting them I don't think these people deserve a ban. But the unanimous losers on 5ch seem to disagree. And the GMs are validating said mass reporting incidents.

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

Hi. I never said anything about programs on PC not being anyone else's business. You DO make it everyone else's business when you stream your content without hiding mods.

I said I'm against witch-hunts and doxing regardless of people using 3rd party assistance tools such as ACT and not hiding them in their streams.

However, you broadcast on Twitch and choose to display your add ons, you're painting a target on your back. Stealth is literally out the window at this point Despite people using parses and broadcasting them I don't think these people deserve a ban. But the unanimous losers on 5ch seem to disagree. And the GMs are validating said mass reporting incidents.

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Then I misunderstood your post, and I do apologize. I am just annoyed at the FFXIV community. It seems a lot people are just going after almost anyone that they feel has addons. I was whispered again last night and was told because my cat girl is standing a certain way that I must be modding. It is like dude wth. That makes 4 times in 9 months that I have been messaged about this. And I don't quite understand either. Cause does your toon stand or sit in a certain way when one is modding. Cause I'm not modding and yet I get whispered. Which makes me think they are jealous or something (Not trying to be Big headed). Just trying to figure all this shit out. Cause it seems to be turning into witch hunts honestly. Let's just get a person even if they look like they are modding.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

But it doesn't give you a solution before the mechanic shows up. Also how many people are 1 shotting ultimate, or savage because of cactbot? When this starts happening sure I would maybe consider this as a possible concern. Personally I don't care if people are using cactbot to get there clears, and I am not sure why everyone else is concerned. This add on will never be a requirement to do content, and will never affect the playerbase unless the devs create the content with the intention of players using cactbot which they are not doing.

Edit: Nevermind I guess Lil Imp said it does. I really don't know what all cactbot can do outside of calls, nor do I really care over all.

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If you don't know what it does, then you really shouldn't have such a dismissive tone towards these tools and those that find it an issue.

Moving that aside though, in terms of how it impacts the overall playerbase, I would point to WoW for this. A situation formed where you had high end raiders using a program similar to CB called DBM. DBM diminished the encounters to such an extent, that raids were becoming "not difficult" in the eyes of the raiding community. WoW devs then, to appease this community, began developing harder content with DBM in mind, and this lead to raiding eventually requiring DBM because it was overtuned otherwise. Mechanics increasing to such a difficulty, ostracized larger portions of the community including the raiding base. Recruitment party standards rose to levels that only some of the most dedicated could arrive at, which for WoW is a cluster of systems that govern character progression that all need to be maintained.

That's how a program that just does "callouts" will affect everyone. DBM was one of the many reasons WoW's raiding community devolved to what it is now, and in their case, the devs seemingly embraced it. If you tried to get into raiding in WoW right now from a completely vanilla character, even knowing the best optimization with tools like DBM, it would still take a significant amount of time to be "decent" enough to participate in groups. Were talking months here, largely because the encounters are now overtuned.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

The point being, is it's not just a parser you would be approving. It also includes all add-ons (from within) ACT that you can get.
CB can announce how to handle mechanics before you even see them on the screen for example, most prevalent is UCOB handling Nael Mechanics or UWU handling Titan Gaols.
There's quick setup guides on youtube. So I'm just saying, if you say yes to ACT, you are equally saying yes to CB because CB NEEDS ACT to even work and CB is largely considered one of the main cheating tools.
Unless for some reason you believe that we should trust the playerbase to not take advantage of ACT in it's fullest once if it is "approved".

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tl:dr : "cheating", context may cause GMs to ignore it if it's "harmless". Subjective views for each individual.

I don't think a person who cleared it late into a tier with cactbot for mechanics actively, would want to discuss about difficulty. That's what I believe people would look at people who used cactbot as, irrelevant, but an idea on what people think of it.

Overly simple insinuation would be people beating up players who actively use cactbot to clear.
It starts from no one should care if they clear with it till they say something dumb.

It goes back into the no third party applications at all issue yet GMs have to consider the callouts to be an advantage or not on the spectrum of "this is a useless callout" to "this is cheating".

ACT will never be approved unless SE gives their version of ACT which I highly doubt they would. It falls under "do not show, do not talk about it" while they've mentioned severity has mattered instead of "do not show", not caring if it's the overlay on stream or callouts, because most incidents previously I've seen were being toxic and were harassing, besides the recent DSR ones.

I remember watching a discussion and I'd agree that cactbot should be removed from ACT to make it simpler to judge, but it has that spectrum I mentioned earlier, being fine or absolutely not.

Makes the conditions change when they considered DSR a community event which is another discussion.

I've not played WoW or any MMOs that made callouts similar to what cactbot can do, no clue what DBM is.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

The point being, is it's not just a parser you would be approving. It also includes all add-ons (from within) ACT that you can get.
CB can announce how to handle mechanics before you even see them on the screen for example, most prevalent is UCOB handling Nael Mechanics or UWU handling Titan Gaols.
There's quick setup guides on youtube. So I'm just saying, if you say yes to ACT, you are equally saying yes to CB because CB NEEDS ACT to even work and CB is largely considered one of the main cheating tools.
Unless for some reason you believe that we should trust the playerbase to not take advantage of ACT in it's fullest once if it is "approved".

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You assume a lot. You should stop. It is making you look ridiculous. ACT just shows your DPS and the damage of others. This addon called Cactbot is the part of ACT that can be downloaded and added into ACT. That is the part that is really the discussion happening here. If someone buys a hammer and runs off to kill someone with it are you gonna witch hunt the owner of that store and ask that he be punished as well. You can't go after the store just cause the hammer came from them. In simple english you can go after ACT cause Cactbot works though it. That is dumb. And to honest no one should even know that you have ACT unless that person is a dumb @ss and telling everyone they are using it.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

If you don't know what it does, then you really shouldn't have such a dismissive tone towards these tools, towards those that find it an issue.

Moving that aside though, in terms of how it impacts the overall playerbase, I would point to WoW for this. A situation formed where you had high end raiders using a program similar to CB called DBM. DBM diminished the encounters to such an extent, that raids were becoming "not difficult" in the eyes of the raiding community. WoW devs then, to appease this community, began developing harder content with DBM in mind, and this lead to raiding eventually requiring DBM because it was overtuned otherwise. Mechanics increasing to such a difficulty, ostracized larger portions of the community including the raiding base. Recruitment party standards rose to levels that only some of the most dedicated could arrive at, which for WoW is a cluster of systems that govern character progression that all need to be maintained.

That's how a program that just does "callouts" will affect everyone. DBM was one of the many reasons WoW's raiding community devolved to what it is now, and in their case, the devs seemingly embraced it. If you tried to get into raiding in WoW right now from a completely vanilla character, even knowing the best optimization with tools like DBM, it would still take a significant amount of time to be "decent" enough to participate in groups. Were talking months here, largely because the encounters are now overtuned.

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Because I assume a majority of you are stupid. And from the things I see posted on here, and what I have seen in game, it has only proven my assumptions.

So when you tell me an add on does something, I assume it is someone that is talking a bunch of bs, until proven other wise. As you are once again relating the same tired thing that DBM ruined WoW, but this isn't true. WoW devs ruined WoW by building the game around DBM. FFXIV fights are far to scripted for DBM style add on to ever truely make a large enough difference for the content to be overtuned, as it is already undertuned with out it.

The WOW-Devs had to build the raids around DBM, because it was enforced to use DBM by a lot of raid-guilds. I was there, I was forced.

And if FFIV Ex, Savage and Ultimate are already undertuned, why do you need addons?

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

Japanese players hate mods/addons in general, like really really much. The only addon that seems to be widespread tolerated under the JP playerbase are shader tools.

Only reason i can think of why that is is cause they feel like it's disrespectful to the work of the devs and that it devalues the game, which asian players are really crazy about. They are really into status symbols like limited public (not fully instanced, like a own zone for every player) housing and the ultimate weapons and all that.

So i feel like this whole mess has come down now to a kind of cultural clash between JP and the western world which are much more liberal about the use of third party tools. Question is if SE sticks with their JP playerbase even tho it is by now significantly smaller than the NA/EU playerbase or if they cut western players finally some slack.

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Meanwhile 5ch has an entire thread dedicated to setting up Dalamud. But ok.

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Originally Posted by Darksummoner

You assume a lot. You should stop. It is making you look ridiculous. ACT just shows your DPS and the damage of others. This addon called Cactbot is the part of ACT that can be downloaded and added into ACT. That is the part that is really the discussion happening here. If someone buys a hammer and runs off to kill someone with it are you gonna witch hunt the owner of that store and ask that he be punished as well. You can't go after the store just cause the hammer came from them. In simple english you can go after ACT cause Cactbot works though it. That is dumb. And to honest no one should even know that you have ACT unless that person is a dumb @ss and telling everyone they are using it.

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The only one who looks ridiculous is you, making the assumption that people won't utilize all aspects of ACT as many ALREADY DO. Let's not play dumb, I'd like to value your intelligence slightly more than you're letting on. CB is not that far removed from ACT to sit there and say "Oh this isn't gonna be an issue." You can literally download the plugin from within ACT so again stop going for the intellectually dishonest play here. It is not that hard to setup and you know that as fact if you are the smart individual you seem to be on the subject. Approving ACT IS approving "ACT" and ALL of it's expansive utility. It is not JUST a calculator. Stop the lies already.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

So when you tell me an add on does something, I assume it is someone that is talking a bunch of bs, until proven other wise. As you are once again relating the same tired thing that DBM ruined WoW, but this isn't true. WoW devs ruined WoW by building the game around DBM. FFXIV fights are far to scripted for DBM style add on to ever truely make a large enough difference for the content to be overtuned, as it is already undertuned with out it.

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So basically you comment on topics you have no knowledge about. Cool story.

I, on the otherhand was present in WoW when DBM became more widely accepted during the turn of Legion and Wrath and recognized by the devs. To argue that DBM was not (as I stated and you neatly left out) ONE of the reasons the WoW raiding community suffered is asinine and clearly you have no knowledge on that subject either. You don't really need my opinion on it, you can take the COUNTLESS content creators who raided the content as well. It is by an large an accepted reality amongst other things. DBM is damn near a requirement nowadays even if it was possible to clear some of the content without it (it is) but good luck finding a group like that. I would argue between DBM, the PTR and the devs catering to the raiding commmunity (amongst an invisible arms race, which Ion acknowledged in a recent interview with Asmongold btw) this lead to that tuned aspect of WoW Raiding suffering severely. Among clan divides that have gone on for far too long, the raiding community on some alliances on some servers have outright diminished. It's only now that they are getting rid of allegiances that things will improve but yeah it was/is a major issue they have no control over anymore.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

The only one who looks ridiculous is you, making the assumption that people won't utilize all apects of ACT as many ALREADY DO. Let's not play dumb, I'd like to value your intelligence slightly more than you're letting on. CB is not that far removed from ACT to sit there and say "Oh this isn't gonna be an issue." You can literally download the plugin from within ACT so again stop going for the intellectual dishonesty play here. It is not that hard to setup and you know that as fact if you are the smart individual you seem to be on the subject. Approving ACT IS approving "ACT" and ALL of it's expansive utility. It is not JUST a calculator. Stop the lies already.



So basically you comment on topics you have no knowledge about. Cool story.

I, on the otherhand was present in WoW when DBM became more widely accepted during the turn of Legion and Wrath and recognized by the devs. To argue that DBM was not (as I stated and you neatly left out) ONE of the reasons the WoW raiding community suffered is asinine and clearly you have no knowledge on that subject either. You don't really need my opinion on it, you can take the COUNTLESS content creators who raided the content as well. It is by an large an accepted reality amongst other things. DBM is damn near a requirement nowadays even if it was possible to clear some of the content without it (it is) but good luck finding a group like that. I would argue between DBM, the PTR and the devs catering to the raiding commmunity (amongst an invisible arms race, which Ion acknowledged in a recent interview with Asmongold btw) this lead to that tuned aspect of WoW Raiding suffering severely. Among clan divides that have gone on for far too long, the raiding community on some alliances on some servers have outright diminished. It's only now that they are getting rid of allegiances that things will improve but yeah it was/is a major issue they have no control over anymore.

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Sweetheart you are the epitome and prime example of those who Witch Hunt without knowing what the hell you are talking about. So what I am going to do is stay the hell away from you. At this point You already have your crazy and narcissist heart set on who you think are the issue of FFXIV. So my next step for you is putting you on Ignore and moving on with the next person to talk to in this post. Hope to never see you around...BYE

just go play the game and enjoy it; stop whinging on the forums constantly.

I agree with you 100% Your Excellency.