Multiple Houses

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

@catstab what you dont seem to realize is a couple players (120 per server) still doesn't compare to the 200 people potentially in a free company who could own 1 of thoses houses. So lets say 10 houses are actually owned buy 1 person or FC. That has the potential of allowing 2000 people to have a home. So if 120 houses are owned by 5 people on a server take away all but 1 from them thats 115 houses that become free. Now max case scenario FC's buy every house. Maximum amount to benefit would be 23,000 people per server. Minimum of 115. And only people who would suffer is 5 people. Now I get it that not every house will be owned by an FC but WAY more people will benefit from the few who lose. Them are the numbers and it's hard to argue with it. 200 people max having access to say 200 plots? Thats a lot of wasted potential especially since most of those FC's probably only have 1 active member.

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Except the reality is few FCs have 200+ active unique members. In most cases those members don't benefit from the FC owning a house because officers tend to rigidly restrict house decorating privileges and rarely spend any gil made from gardening, workshops and company credits on the members. Access to purchasing FC chambers mean nothing when players can easily buy an apartment with or without FC membership.

You're dramatically inflating the potential impact when there just aren't that many multiple house owners out there, grandfathered or not, and most worlds don't even have 23,000 active players.

Do yourself and everyone else a favor. Turn your crusade toward something that actually would make a dramatic and positive impact on housing for the community - expansion of the instanced housing system - instead of on a dead cause that would only benefit a handful of players per server.

Enter improved instanced mass housing available for all sprouts and non-sprouts, that is aesthetically pleasing and includes amenities like large scale gardening, a market board next to a main aetherite linked to other mass housing areas within the world and of course allows inter server travel as well.

A player can still try their luck on the rare resource plotted housing but with significantly lessened stress.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

me saying they would do that if they aimed for fun is still a lot more relevant to the conversation as it ACTUALLY pertains to your comment

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I'm going to explain what a 'red herring' is. It's a meaningless distraction from the conversation at hand, generally used when someone is backed into a corner but not ready to stop talking.

Person A: This company should take away people's earned rewards, so they can be distributed to different people

Person B: That goes against their standards of ethics, they would never do it

Person A: Well, they make expansion packs! (this is a red herring)

Regarding the "What if 5 accounts own 120 houses" comment, that's mathematically not possible. Even with 8 personals and 8 FC houses, it would take 8 accounts to hold 128 houses. It seems unlikely to me that 8 accounts are built up like this on any one server. It is unlikely to the point of impossible that all 112 houses freed up by your proposal would go to FCs. As an aside, most FCs have many fewer than 200 members, and almost every FC with anywhere near 200 members has housing.

Anyway, again, SE doesn't revoke already earned rewards. Grandfathered houses are here to stay until their owners quit the game.

My advice would be: petition for SE to enforce a 1 FC house per account guideline in future purchases. Currently they do not, and it is perfectly possible to collect 8 FC houses on any account. People continue to do this and while it is not the core problem with housing, it is undeniably detrimental.


EDIT: OP says the above example 'is dumb.' Here's the actual conversation:

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

Square needs to make people with multiples like that choose a house and then auto-demo the rest... that should be what they get for being greedy.

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(This company should take away people's earned rewards, so they can be distributed to different people)

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Originally Posted by Catstab

SE would consider taking away earned rewards as unethical and won't consider doing it. They would also consider it anti-fun

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(That goes against their standards of ethics, they would never do it)

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

If they wanted more fun they wouldn't have destroyed the abilities every expansion... like for instance the PLD tank stances

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(Well, they make expansion packs!)

I'm calling out this changing the subject to Paladin tank stances in the middle of a discussion of business ethics as a way for OP to distract from a debate they don't have anything left to contribute to.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Except the reality is few FCs have 200+ active unique members. In most cases those members don't benefit from the FC owning a house because officers tend to rigidly restrict house decorating privileges and rarely spend any gil made from gardening, workshops and company credits on the members. Access to purchasing FC chambers mean nothing when players can easily buy an apartment with or without FC membership.

You're dramatically inflating the potential impact when there just aren't that many multiple house owners out there, grandfathered or not, and most worlds don't even have 23,000 active players.

Do yourself and everyone else a favor. Turn your crusade toward something that actually would make a dramatic and positive impact on housing for the community - expansion of the instanced housing system - instead of on a dead cause that would only benefit a handful of players per server.

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how about you read my post again? I think you missed a few key word. Like idk. Maximum? Minimum? Oh and potentially? Did I say every FC has 200? Did I say my numbers were exact? No. I gave a hypothetical scenario. And you and me seem to have a different opinion on a handful it seems. The people who own these multiple are the handful especially when compared to the amount of people who could buy a house if they lost them.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

EDIT: OP says the above example 'is dumb.' Here's the actual conversation:

(This company should take away people's earned rewards, so they can be distributed to different people)

(That goes against their standards of ethics, they would never do it)

(Well, they make expansion packs!)

I'm calling out this changing the subject to Paladin tank stances in the middle of a discussion of business ethics as a way for OP to distract from a debate they don't have anything left to contribute to.

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Way to skip out the post where somebody asked me to clarify, dude. Way to try and manipulate posts to work in your favor XD sorry dude but till you are ready to actually read everything and stop making stupid grasps at things that literally doesn't make sense, I'll let you do you. Lmk when you are ready, bruh

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Originally Posted by Catstab

No, you didn't. Take a peek.

By the way, hypothetical scenarios that are impossible are called 'hyperbole' and have no place in arguments.

They've already decided to let them keep them. You don't like it? Well, you quitting won't bankrupt the company. Obviously it's best for them if you continue to play, which you appear to be doing.

Please read this one again, and move on.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

Now max case scenario FC's buy every house. Maximum amount to benefit would be 23,000 people per server. Minimum of 115. And only people who would suffer is 5 people. Now I get it that not every house will be owned by an FC but WAY more people will benefit from the few who lose. Them are the numbers and it's hard to argue with it. 200 people max having access to say 200 plots? Thats a lot of wasted potential especially since most of those FC's probably only have 1 active member.

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I didn't? Read this again. Proof you aren't reading anything. Just skimming. Later, bruh.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

By the way, hypothetical scenarios that are impossible are called 'hyperbole' and have no place in arguments.

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Good thing my scenarios aren't impossible. With how thing were, plenty of people. Had the potential especially since FC's bought entire wards. All they had to do was buy 2 full wards to get 120. Makes it absolutely possible. Sorry dude.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

Way to skip out the post where somebody asked me to clarify, dude.

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Someone asked you to clarify because what you said made no sense. Your response to "SE will never take away houses, it goes against their ethics" was "they took my tank stance!"

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

Good thing my scenarios aren't impossible.

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They are, though. Let's dive back into your so-called 'hypothetical situation.'

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

So if 120 houses are owned by 5 people on a server

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8 personals + 8 FCs x 5 accounts = 80 houses, absolute maximum. So your hypothetical scenario is what if people exist who have 12 characters per account? That's not possible, so you can stop worrying.

Please try to stick to the conversation we're having and avoid being insulting or combative. Or just stop posting. This is a dead thread.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Please try to stick to the conversation we're having and avoid being insulting or combative. Or just stop posting. This is a dead thread.

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Appreciate your efforts Catstab but there's use arguing with her. She's firmly stuck in what she believes and incapable of listening to reason.

She's also got the same right to post here as any of us. Best to ignore her if you find her arguments more irritating than entertaining.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Someone asked you to clarify because what you said made no sense. Your response to "SE will never take away houses, it goes against their ethics" was "they took my tank stance!"



They are, though. Let's dive back into your so-called 'hypothetical situation.'



8 personals + 8 FCs x 5 accounts = 80 houses, absolute maximum. So your hypothetical scenario is what if people exist who have 12 characters per account? That's not possible, so you can stop worrying.

Please try to stick to the conversation we're having and avoid being insulting or combative. Or just stop posting. This is a dead thread.

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And here you go talking about current. Wonderful. When this entire post is not about the 8 MAXIMUM that you can get RIGHT NOW. But hey. You do you, bruh

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Appreciate your efforts Catstab but there's use arguing with her. She's firmly stuck in what she believes and incapable of listening to reason.

She's also got the same right to post here as any of us. Best to ignore her if you find her arguments more irritating than entertaining.

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You are right. I have a right to post here and nobody has given me any concrete reasoning why my idea shouldn't happen on top of adding new houses. Plus it seems I'm the ONLY one reading entire posts and not just part of it

I probably do not deserve a response but I'll go back to my original post in this thread and say taking grandfathered houses away is not the answer but veering away from the ward system itself for future house districts would be.. and I mean something akin to apartments but vastly improved upon. Allowing tenants for starters and also allowing alts to share housing would be a good start. Then perhaps increased sized and item allowances. These new "super apartments" should also be subject to the 45 day timer ward houses are as well, and you may not have a normal house in a ward and one of these styles of apartments. You can have a regular apartment alongside one of them tho. That is my suggestion.


Taking away grandfathered houses does not help fix the problem. There will probably never be enough ward housing until this game dies out some time in the future which may be sooner than some expect with new mmos around the corner that look to be taking notes from current mmo failings. Making a few new worlds on a data center might help considerably and making them where no houses are grandfathered in from the onset. Make them not able to be world visited for the first month they are introduced imo. Allow transfers maybe after 1 week. That will probably be the best thing we could see for people genuinely wanting a straight shot at a house outside of the dev's just giving every player a house straight up for free of any size and style the player wants. Anyhow I do hope a good solution arrives at some point like most others do but it's not a perfect world and this is not a perfect game. So the perfect solution is madness to expect.

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

Taking away grandfathered houses does not help fix the problem. There will probably never be enough ward housing until this game dies out some time in the future which may be sooner than some expect with new mmos around the corner that look to be taking notes from current mmo failings. Making a few new worlds on a data center might help considerably and making them where no houses are grandfathered in from the onset. Make them not able to be world visited for the first month they are introduced imo. Allow transfers maybe after 1 week. That will probably be the best thing we could see for people genuinely wanting a straight shot at a house outside of the dev's just giving every player a house straight up for free of any size and style the player wants. Anyhow I do hope a good solution arrives at some point like most others do but it's not a perfect world and this is not a perfect game. So the perfect solution is madness to expect.

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If they added 3 new servers, one each to the Aether Crystal and Primal data centers, it would actually do a lot to solve the housing issues on the NA side. You over complicate the solution though. The only people with grandfathered houses bought them more then 2 years ago. They dont get to keep them if they change servers because no one keeps housing when they server swap. So just being a new server eliminates that "concern". World visiting is irrelevant to housing, because you can only buy a house on your home server. If you instead intended that to prevent gil transfers, it takes far less time to make the money to buy a house then some people seem to think. They could open a window for free transfers(they did this when they added new worlds to the EU centers a couple years back), and then just set the servers as preferred until they reached the desired player counts. Most people still wouldnt move, because housing isnt as important as they say it is. Some people would, and they would have free reign to snap up whichever house they want for their personal or FC. And there would still be houses available months from now, because there are still houses open on the newest EU servers too.

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

I probably do not deserve a response but I'll go back to my original post in this thread and say taking grandfathered houses away is not the answer but veering away from the ward system itself for future house districts would be.. and I mean something akin to apartments but vastly improved upon. Allowing tenants for starters and also allowing alts to share housing would be a good start. Then perhaps increased sized and item allowances. These new "super apartments" should also be subject to the 45 day timer ward houses are as well, and you may not have a normal house in a ward and one of these styles of apartments. You can have a regular apartment alongside one of them tho. That is my suggestion.


Taking away grandfathered houses does not help fix the problem. There will probably never be enough ward housing until this game dies out some time in the future which may be sooner than some expect with new mmos around the corner that look to be taking notes from current mmo failings. Making a few new worlds on a data center might help considerably and making them where no houses are grandfathered in from the onset. Make them not able to be world visited for the first month they are introduced imo. Allow transfers maybe after 1 week. That will probably be the best thing we could see for people genuinely wanting a straight shot at a house outside of the dev's just giving every player a house straight up for free of any size and style the player wants. Anyhow I do hope a good solution arrives at some point like most others do but it's not a perfect world and this is not a perfect game. So the perfect solution is madness to expect.

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Taking them away DOES help fix the problem. Albeit a small fix but it still opens up housing for many players allowing them a little more time to pump out more wards. Having 2+ houses and keeping them, as I'm sure most take a break and come back just to keep their housing, is unreasonable in the first place. So in they were taken, it would help a great number of people overall at the risk of a few players.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

And here you go talking about current. Wonderful. When this entire post is not about the 8 MAXIMUM that you can get RIGHT NOW. But hey. You do you, bruh

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I've had my account since 2010 (1.0) and it has never been possible to have more than 8 characters on a world on a single service account.

So the most houses you could ever get on an world on a single service account was 16 (8 personal, 8 FC).

The most houses you can get right now on a single service account is 9 (1 personal, 8 FC).

I have no idea where you are getting your figures from, but you should probably check your facts before going on a crusade.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

If they added 3 new servers, one each to the Aether Crystal and Primal data centers, it would actually do a lot to solve the housing issues on the NA side.

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Anything that adds more house plots is an improvement at this point, but I don't think one new server per data center would be enough to solve the problem. That's still only 5760 more houses per data center when I've seen unofficial census information putting the player populations on NA worlds between 12,000 and 24,000.

If we go conservative based on those numbers and say average per world is 16,000, that's 128,000 players per NA data center. Currently there are 46,080 houses per data center. Adding one more server increases that to 51,840. Remove the ability of FCs to own houses and limit houses to one per account period (not per server), and that's still only 40% of players able to get a house. Allow FCs to own houses and the number gets reduced further. Assuming they would continue to hold 30% of houses as others claim they do right now means only 28% of players would be able to get a house.

We really need a new way of adding house plots to the game that doesn't rely on the ward system.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

I've had my account since 2010 (1.0) and it has never been possible to have more than 8 characters on a world on a single service account.

So the most houses you could ever get on an world on a single service account was 16 (8 personal, 8 FC).

The most houses you can get right now on a single service account is 9 (1 personal, 8 FC).

I have no idea where you are getting your figures from, but you should probably check your facts before going on a crusade.

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Dude. 8 HOUSES! MORE THEN 8 HOUSES! LEARN TO READ!

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Originally Posted by Catstab

8 personals + 8 FCs x 5 accounts = 80 houses, absolute maximum.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

And here you go talking about current. Wonderful. When this entire post is not about the 8 MAXIMUM that you can get RIGHT NOW.

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So, the 16 houses described in my post are the highest maximum ever possible. Not the maximum current. Not sure why you'd think 8 personals is the current rule? But as you say: 'you do you'

Past rules were 8 personal houses per account and 8 FCs per account = 16 houses per account.

Current rules are 1 personal and 8 FCs per account = 9 houses per account.

In 2017 and before then, 5 accounts could collect 80 houses total if they tried (and these houses would still exist today.) Currently, 5 accounts can only collect 45 houses. Your hyperbolic situation where 5 accounts had 120 houses is not possible and never has been.

Disappointed that there's nothing here after two days other than this opportunity to help you develop your reading comprehension.

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

I probably do not deserve a response but I'll go back to my original post in this thread and say taking grandfathered houses away is not the answer but veering away from the ward system itself for future house districts would be.. and I mean something akin to apartments but vastly improved upon. Allowing tenants for starters and also allowing alts to share housing would be a good start. Then perhaps increased sized and item allowances. These new "super apartments" should also be subject to the 45 day timer ward houses are as well, and you may not have a normal house in a ward and one of these styles of apartments. You can have a regular apartment alongside one of them tho. That is my suggestion.

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IMO the best way forward is to have a bunch of options for people. Like keep the wards, but offer instanced housing along side. Give us the option to have an airship home (while a sub home would be cool... that's not nearly as practical). Make apartments something actually useful. Give us public access to the crafting workshop through Garlond Ironworks or Skysteel Manufactury. Let us launch airship and sub missions without needing to be in an FC to do it. Give us cross gardening without requiring a house.

Doing most of the above would help mitigate a lot of the housing issues, and I imagine if players suddenly had teleports to all their personal houses from all their characters on the same server, some would likely release the duplicate houses as that's a feature that's LONG overdue IMO.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

So, the 16 houses described in my post are the highest maximum ever possible. Not the maximum current. Not sure why you'd think 8 personals is the current rule? But as you say: 'you do you'

Past rules were 8 personal houses per account and 8 FCs per account = 16 houses per account.

Current rules are 1 personal and 8 FCs per account = 9 houses per account.

In 2017 and before then, 5 accounts could collect 80 houses total if they tried (and these houses would still exist today.) Currently, 5 accounts can only collect 45 houses. Your hyperbolic situation where 5 accounts had 120 houses is not possible and never has been.

Disappointed that there's nothing here after two days other than this opportunity to help you develop your reading comprehension.

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Ima have to stop you there. I have 2 FC's in my server that own more then 10 FC houses. 1 HAS 11 the other 13. That right there seems to be more then 8 :o

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

IMO the best way forward is to have a bunch of options for people. Like keep the wards, but offer instanced housing along side. Give us the option to have an airship home (while a sub home would be cool... that's not nearly as practical). Make apartments something actually useful. Give us public access to the crafting workshop through Garlond Ironworks or Skysteel Manufactury. Let us launch airship and sub missions without needing to be in an FC to do it. Give us cross gardening without requiring a house.

Doing most of the above would help mitigate a lot of the housing issues, and I imagine if players suddenly had teleports to all their personal houses from all their characters on the same server, some would likely release the duplicate houses as that's a feature that's LONG overdue IMO.

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Tbh, this is a beautiful idea. And I'd love to see them do it. But I'm afraid that SE is stubborn on that front :/ which completely suck

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Make apartments something actually useful. Give us public access to the crafting workshop through Garlond Ironworks or Skysteel Manufactury. Let us launch airship and sub missions without needing to be in an FC to do it. Give us cross gardening without requiring a house.
IMO.

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I do not think giving individuals the ability to have workshop access is a good idea. That should remain as a perk for a free company. It keeps what is there scarce which I think is good for the particular resources to have some sort of value. If a player does not like that within an fc they can found their own tho, as I have and many others like me who were not pleased with how many fcs run things. I do think better apartments is a HUGE step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

World visiting is irrelevant to housing, because you can only buy a house on your home server. If you instead intended that to prevent gil transfers, it takes far less time to make the money to buy a house then some people seem to think.

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The precise reason why and I am WELL aware how quick gil can be made but limiting access with the massive stores of gil capped folks from flooding the new worlds will keep the chances of getting a house for those eager for a fresh run at it fairest and I will go and assume you know this, it keeps current gil out for a long enough time for people to have a snowball's chance in Thanalan of getting their little slice of Eorzea.

@Bach1990 tho I am certain you are 100% trolling at this point. The amount of grand fathered houses that would be removed from people who LEGITIMATELY earned them will fix nothing and cause nothing but drama and problems. You have your agenda tho and it is not surprising you're right on board the titanmen boat of consta-trollin.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

I'm on Siren server in Aether datacenter. There are several wards with FC's that have 10+ houses.

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I'm also on Siren and ours isn't even a server with a housing shortage. I don't know why you are complaining about suffering from what other players do when it doesn't affect you. Maybe your dream house isn't free but it likely wouldn't be either way if we kicked out players who have invested hundreds of hours, hundreds of millions of gil and possibly lots of real world money to have several accounts. You can easily get a cottage once timers get turned back on. If you can't wait for that, you can ask to buy a solo FC with a house on party finder. If you wait for housing ward expansion you can even get your dream house. I hadn't had a problem on Siren getting exactly the house I wanted when new wards were opened. Got a large Shirogane house for my FC when Shiro first opened and a private med Lavender Beds House during another housing ward expansion. I probably could have gotten a large if FCs didn't get several days prior access. In both cases I was literally the only person going for those plots for at least 10 minutes. You shouldn't have a problem with housing on Siren.

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

I do not think giving individuals the ability to have workshop access is a good idea. That should remain as a perk for a free company. It keeps what is there scarce which I think is good for the particular resources to have some sort of value. If a player does not like that within an fc they can found their own tho, as I have and many others like me who were not pleased with how many fcs run things. I do think better apartments is a HUGE step in the right direction.

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Given how we've got a woefully inadequate supply of houses compared to the demand, anything that can be done to incentivize players to release a house (in this case by making housing stuff available to the general public so there's less reason to have a house) should be done. Besides, how many FCs actually have the permissions loose enough that the average person in the FC can use the workshop or run an expedition?

By making the workshop available to the general populace, it's going to cause people that are in the micro FCs think twice about why they have it... and possibly lead a few of them to release the house (or delete the FC which will release the house) as they have less a reason to keep it around.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

Ima have to stop you there. I have 2 FC's in my server that own more then 10 FC houses. 1 HAS 11 the other 13. That right there seems to be more then 8 :o

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I'm suspecting a math error here, but how many distinct service accounts are in each of those FCs?

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

The precise reason why and I am WELL aware how quick gil can be made but limiting access with the massive stores of gil capped folks from flooding the new worlds will keep the chances of getting a house for those eager for a fresh run at it fairest and I will go and assume you know this, it keeps current gil out for a long enough time for people to have a snowball's chance in Thanalan of getting their little slice of Eorzea.

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IMO FFXIV needs more gil sinks.

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

@Bach1990 tho I am certain you are 100% trolling at this point. The amount of grand fathered houses that would be removed from people who LEGITIMATELY earned them will fix nothing and cause nothing but drama and problems. You have your agenda tho and it is not surprising you're right on board the titanmen boat of consta-trollin.

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As a friendly FYI, be VERY careful with this type of callouts as it's how you can easily run afoul with the Forum Code of Conduct (FYI https://support.na.square-enix.com/r...la=1&tag=forum ).

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

IMO FFXIV needs more gil sinks.



As a friendly FYI, be VERY careful with this type of callouts as it's how you can easily run afoul with the Forum Code of Conduct (FYI https://support.na.square-enix.com/r...la=1&tag=forum ).

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As far as gil sinks go by letting thos gil capped players on a fresh world you would again see 100% bought out wards on the fresh world all over again.

And thanks for the friendly fyi, tho I'm certain I would not care about going afoul of the forum codes of conduct at this point. The general level of toxicity and absolute abandonment of most people's ability to abide by the rules is just through the roof. Meanwhile the tc literally telling people they are dumb and their step by step and informative posts are also dumb according to them. I simply informed them I 100% believe they are just trolling at this point. I have not said they are dumb.

Again tho let's go back and think about the ramifications of letting gil capped players onto a fresh world and look at what is already going on in current worlds and be sure you want to see those fresh worlds be "gil sinks". Rather let instanced housing be a type of gil sink.

I also stick to my logic of keeping workshops fc based. Keeping some of those items as fc based perks is good in my opinion, another reason being it devalues the idea behind an fc altogether. That doesn't mean fc abuse does not happen. You would have to go back to formula to remedy that whole situation. I try to use what our workshop produces to pay for members fc rooms and also supply gil to newer members to help them cover npc gear costs and have some early breathing room. For what we do it seems to work out pretty well so far.

Let me also say letting an accounts alts automatically be able to use a house on the account would be an ideal solution for a large chunk of people. We may not see people with grand fathered housing relinquish houses over that feature but you would definitely see much less invention of micro FC's at that point. There are some that simply make micro fcs for workshop access but I feel those are in the minority compared to people that just want a house for their alt based on observations I have had.

Short of taking away opportunity from players based on current abuse of a smaller segment of players than people realize , I do not see a viable "fix" for the current incarnation of ward based housing. Blame people's greed or whatever you want, but the real issue is the system not players. I've had a lot of thought about housing and how it could be different but I am not in control of the purse strings of the organization (probably to the betterment of Eorzea >_>). Getting on the forums and taking a cursory glance at the madness in housing subforum alone tho really makes one wonder what is the deal with just cramming this onto their own player base? There is a thread that got smashed together with a ton of other threads recently that is like a mighty chorus of damage and vitriol with like 1 moderator response informing us they consolidated a bunch of threads onto that 1.. I read the entire thread with posts going back to 2017.. every single word in there last night. I am passionate for xiv housing. I get it , a lot of people are and many WAY more passionate than I am. But as one of them that is passionate for it, I am disgusted by it's current incarnation and what seems to be glee in seeing the garbage getting slung around by angry people at each other. Step up SE. Your forums have a TON of feedback with a slew of what seems like pretty reasonable suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

Ima have to stop you there. I have 2 FC's in my server that own more then 10 FC houses. 1 HAS 11 the other 13. That right there seems to be more then 8 :o

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You seem to need information about how the game works.

That's not 2 FCs owning a combined 24 houses. It's impossible for a single FC to own more than one house. That's 24 different FCs owning one house each. If you're going "but the FC tag!", FC tags are not unique. Multiple FCs can use the same tag.

What is possible is for those 24 FCs to be led by a single player who is paying for 3 service accounts and has created 8 characters on each account with each character leading a different one of those FCs. The game itself doesn't know what real person owns an account. To it, each service account represents a separate person. Actual account owner identity will be tracked by the accounts and billing system outside of the game programming.

Is that greedy? It depends on when the player established those FCs and the houses purchased.

If it was done on or before Jan.29, 2018, then no. The game allowed it until that date.

If the FC was created on or after Jan. 30th, 2018 or it was a second FC house purchase on the account then yes, it's greed and exploiting loopholes in the game's system.

Unfortunately, it's outside GM authority to enforce the housing rules posted on the Lodestone just as it's outside their authority to handle bot related issues. Unlike bots, SE evidently didn't set up a team to handle housing ownership exploits so the player base has no recourse when someone chooses to exploit the system.

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

I do not think giving individuals the ability to have workshop access is a good idea. That should remain as a perk for a free company. It keeps what is there scarce which I think is good for the particular resources to have some sort of value. If a player does not like that within an fc they can found their own tho, as I have and many others like me who were not pleased with how many fcs run things. I do think better apartments is a HUGE step in the right direction.

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Except there are multiple individual players who do have access to workshops because they set up shell FCs to get it.

It's not like legitimate FCs can make all that much gil off a workshop anymore with the number of individual players running those multiple workshops for personal profit. SE might as well release workshops to all players in that case and find some other perks for FCs.

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Originally Posted by not_ya_wify

I'm also on Siren and ours isn't even a server with a housing shortage.

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I think you need to look again. This isn't early 2019 anymore.

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

I am passionate for xiv housing. I get it , a lot of people are and many WAY more passionate than I am. But as one of them that is passionate for it, I am disgusted by it's current incarnation and what seems to be glee in seeing the garbage getting slung around by angry people at each other. Step up SE. Your forums have a TON of feedback with a slew of what seems like pretty reasonable suggestions.

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They've got a major housing update already in the works. We know it's coming after every world has completed its Ishgard Restoration so hopefully that means 5.5.

At this point we need patience. It doesn't hurt to continue to give feedback about changes we'd like to see but we need to stop with the "you need to do something, SE". They are. Once the new update is released, we can give feedback on any problems we still see.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

SE might as well release workshops to all players in that case and find some other perks for FCs.

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It is a massive problem that SE needs to deal with in some form, but what kind of perk would you suggest letting FC's have? How would the shell FC's be kept from obtaining those as well? The whole system; as it stands; is something the devs can probably look back and say "well hindsight is 20/20". I think a first step should definitely be increasing housing supply whether through an "improved apartment" system or just open the flood gates on wards and create many times the amount of wards there are now.

Focusing on one of the things, and hypothetically speaking, if we are looking at ending housing for the micro FCs (that is, FCs that have 3 members or less) as IMO FCs that have less players than the number needed to create the FC shouldn't have a house, we need to look at why a player wants to create the micro FC in the first place. Speaking for myself, I would be inclined to have a micro FC if I was actually playing multiple characters on a server as having that swap space is insanely useful. Likewise, given how locked down gardening is with most FCs, I imagine enough players would like to garden but they'd need to have a house so they can cross garden. Then there's the workshop, and while (honestly speaking) I've got enough stuff to do in game so haven't really looked into it much beyond helping others craft stuff, I imagine for some they'd like to make use of the voyages without having to get permission to launch it, or having to negotiate with other FC members to go farm a specific node to get a desired drop.

That's kinda where the suggestions for letting all alts on the same server have access to the same personal house the server (and for that matter, letting the grandfathered in houses appear on each character that's on the same server), that negates one of the reasons for the micro FC. Same can be said for having a public garden system (real world example is https://www.fuhlsgarden.de/ btw). Workshop public access seems like that would need to be tied with us players getting something like a GC mobile squadron headquarter (as that makes the most sense for us getting an airship house), and we'd need to do that as a collaboration with Galrond Ironworks or Skysteel Manufactury. And if we're going to be building one airship... we might as well be able to build out a fleet of them so they can run missions for us - which provides a reasonable way for players to get access to the workshop outside of the FC (with enough work put into it). The other advantage to that system is if airship had required maintenance that was funded by gil, it would bring in a much needed gil sink too.

Speaking of gil sinks, attaching a maintenance cost to the house (functionally a weekly rent cost) that will condemn a house when it's unpaid and bar anyone from entering it (and thus making it unable to reset the AFK demo timer), but also allows you to prepay out like a month or two in advance. Players should get moogle mails when the prepaid rent expires, and also when a rent payment is missed so they are aware of missing payment. While this is also a mechanic from LotRO's housing system, it would also add in a much needed gil sink to FFXIV, as there are not enough gil sinks in FFXIV IMO - which is why I think it's needed in FFXIV.

That's a few suggestions, but it also (hopefully) sheds some light into why we can't just go straight to stripping houses from players and must instead tread a bit of a windy path before we can seriously look at that option.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

They've got a major housing update already in the works. We know it's coming after every world has completed its Ishgard Restoration so hopefully that means 5.5.

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I missed that one, you got a link to it?

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Speaking of gil sinks, attaching a maintenance cost to the house (functionally a weekly rent cost) that will condemn a house when it's unpaid and bar anyone from entering it (and thus making it unable to reset the AFK demo timer), but also allows you to prepay out like a month or two in advance. Players should get moogle mails when the prepaid rent expires, and also when a rent payment is missed so they are aware of missing payment. While this is also a mechanic from LotRO's housing system, it would also add in a much needed gil sink to FFXIV, as there are not enough gil sinks in FFXIV IMO - which is why I think it's needed in FFXIV.

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I do not think a weekly/monthly 'rent' cost is a good idea, but it is not the worst I've seen floated around. But also Yoshi P. has stated they do not want that for their housing system. If we want to take a wider look at things, let's take a look at the gil faucets spewing untold amounts of gil into the economy as well. They are quite numerous. We're really at a "supply does not meet the demand" place in terms of what's going on with housing. And yes, I agree we should not be stripping housing away from anyone who legit earned their houses. I'm a player that runs an active FC, and have 1 personal private house. I worked hard to get what I got, and if I were capable of getting more (within the rules of the game of course) I'd go for more too, and gladly blist anyone who advocated taking away a shred of what I earned. And I'd probably take pictures and post them to various discords to let people know how I feel about it which may be toxic but it is many times over more toxic to berate and insult a player for playing the game in the first place. I am not a multi-house owning/grandfathered in/look-what-I-got type. But I am 100% more on the side of those types than a single person who advocates taking away anything from another player and absolutely disgusted with the development team behind this raging dumpster fire of an in-game housing system.
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I went over a post someone made about the idea that the answer the dev team had for this current housing crisis was to release 3 wards which happened in the middle of the night for the majority of the player base of this game(yes the majority is not in JST believe it or not), and they were gone in moments after the servers were online for most worlds.. if not completely bought and gone, relocated from and stuck with the dreaded timer of legend(which is a whole other can of worms to kick around). I was one of the few who managed to get in with a reasonable queue time, and got a medium I was able to relocate to from a small I had. Honestly, I feel bad for people without. I also, did not have a house for a while when I started, auto-demo was on pause at the time as well, but when it came back, i was able to get a small (Goblet 9, yeah the most unpopular plot in the game where I camped against maybe 30 others before many just went to bed. I was there for 8.5 hours before I "won" if you can call it that). It could have been worse, but I met some of the nicest people i have ever met in an MMO that night, some of which I still speak to to this day, tho they play much less now. I can't help but wonder if housing was an issue that drove them from playing more.

I started a Free Company with a mish mash of people I met shortly after. We did not have a house, but I said hey I'll spend the time and gil to camp a house, if you guys really want it, and they did ofcourse. I got us probably the 2nd most undesirable plot in the game, a goblet 59. I loved these houses tho, I won the FC house camping against 2 automated players, which I took screenshots of and still have to this day. The FC went their separate ways for reasons, and I quit playing so gave leadership to someone else. I came back in January of this year, no house, and just a bit of gil I had left over. I camped the most unpopular LB spot and won that and relocated since, and have another FC altogether with more than I had before I quit playing to begin with. And I would LOVE to get more, but I'd do it legitimately just like I did it every time before, with a separate account, but I refuse to pay more to "enjoy" this nightmare of a system all over again. That is why I advocate for instanced "improved apartments". That is in my eyes, the only real solution forward and the just discontinue adding wards altogether. I'm kind of half entertaining the idea of quitting playing once and for all anyhow, because of how utterly ridiculous this development team has handled this housing situation. It's a disaster, and there is no denying it. The hours upon hours I alone spent with the few houses I've had have left a mark on me, a VERY real bother as it were. I was sick of clicking after the first 5 minutes, but I've done various things to kill the tedium, like queue up for roulettes while camping, gone out to eat and came back to camp a little more, etc. Every single aspect of the house obtaining process SUCKS. Big time. Worst system of any mmorpg I have ever seen in my life, and I'm nearing 40, and played a TON of mmorpg's in my time. I cannot think of 1 "positive" aspect of the ward system that "justifies" the negatives we are experiencing in this game in regards to the housing. And I've thought on this. Lots. I have seen maybe 12 people in the entirety of my time in this game randomly run through a housing district that were not members of an FC idling outside their FC. There is no neighborhood feel. None.

This is without doubt, one of the absolute WORST reasons to continue with the ward system as it is. "Neighborhood feel". Sure, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. No new taxes. And whatever other lie and deflection that can be invented to make the sell. Honestly, can we see a legitimate back and forth between SE and a panel of players that are not die hard SE loyalists and not hand picked Kotaku "gaming journalists" as to why this system is allowed to fester as it is?

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

It is a massive problem that SE needs to deal with in some form, but what kind of perk would you suggest letting FC's have? How would the shell FC's be kept from obtaining those as well? The whole system; as it stands; is something the devs can probably look back and say "well hindsight is 20/20". I think a first step should definitely be increasing housing supply whether through an "improved apartment" system or just open the flood gates on wards and create many times the amount of wards there are now.

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First, take rewards out of house ownership when not everyone gets to own. Move those rewards elsewhere. That alone would reduce demand for houses if SE doesn't plan to enhance the instanced housing system.

Add in rewards that are unlocked by FC members doing content together. Blizzard had done this with WoW guilds but screwed up the system by tying guild ranks and guild member reputation into completing solo content instead of doing group content as a FC.

With respect to making gil, that's a tough one because any time gil is involved there will be someone trying to abuse it for personal gain (was another problem seen in WoW's guild system). How do FCs invest their gil back into their members? Add in ways to get those things without spending gil would be a possible solution. Our FC looks at the massive number of company credits we have but there's little to spend them. Adding more desirable items to the list of what can be purchased with the credits would help.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

I missed that one, you got a link to it?

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It was in one of the interviews YoshiP did just before last week's Live Letter. The FFXIV reddit discord has the translation (with a link to the original interview) in their translations channel. You'll have to scroll back quite a ways to get to it since the Live Letter translation is the most current info in the channel.

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

I do not think a weekly/monthly 'rent' cost is a good idea, but it is not the worst I've seen floated around. But also Yoshi P. has stated they do not want that for their housing system.

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If they're going to stick to the limited ward system, I think it's an excellent idea. Players are far less likely to buy a house they aren't actively using if they have to keep paying a recurring in-game fee to keep it. It also acts as an additional gil sink the game desperately needs. Any fee could scale based on the house size so it's very affordable on a small but sizeable on a medium or large.

As for things they do or don't want for the system, that can change over time. Maybe they feel differently 6 years later after seeing how the system has worked out.

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

I cannot think of 1 "positive" aspect of the ward system that "justifies" the negatives we are experiencing in this game in regards to the housing. And I've thought on this. Lots. I have seen maybe 12 people in the entirety of my time in this game randomly run through a housing district that were not members of an FC idling outside their FC. There is no neighborhood feel. None.

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The biggest problem the ward system has are the negatives being so overwhelmingly bad that they overshadow any positives the system may have. Until those negatives get fixed... this is going to be the sentiment with a lot of players. That's also why I'm for pulling stuff like the workshop and gardening OUT of the housing system.

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Originally Posted by Basch1990

Ima have to stop you there. I have 2 FC's in my server that own more then(sic) 10 FC houses. 1 HAS 11 the other 13. That right there seems to be more then(sic) 8 :o

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The 24 FC houses you describe are held by a minimum of 3 players on 24 characters. So you've discovered that 3-24 players are leading FCs that own houses. Groundbreaking. You might want to read up on housing works before you suggest changing how housing works.