Is FFXIV hinting Berserker, Necromancer, and Chemist next expansion?

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Necromancer and Chemist I think is possible. Primarily Chemist.

Berserker I'd say is a hard no. Very little would differentiate them from Warrior.

Now if they want to add a melee class that uses cast times 100% and become a literal melee BLM I'd be all up for that.

I really want Necromancer very badly but I won't be sad if it never shows up.

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It wouldn't be a melee then would it? Cast times? ew

I don't really agree with the whole we didn't have thief because it was evil therefore we can't have necromancer thing, I don't think that's based on all strong rules at all (rules that should, have, or will be followed). However I can see having necromancer unlikely because necromancer is necromancer lol. For example we've Ninja which is an assassin, that's pretty evil- it is I think a bit silly to say thief is bad therefore we can't have it but wait incoming assassin. "But our assassin only kills bad people" and that would be my second point that a lot of people are working under very conservative very restricted creative levels when discussing potential concepts (particularly restricted when it's not an idea they care for in the beginning). Thief could /also/ be the robinhood. We have an entire city that were largely ex (or even present) thieves and cons. Our dark knight can optionally be a huge prick too with some fairly dark moments lol.

On a more technical note Yoshida has said just think of rogues as thieves, so they didn't add thieves because they are evil is not the case (technically they 'basically' did add Thief, in Yoshida's words below)- they didn't add thief because they needed to budget their creative powers and work within their class system (as resources are not infinite).

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Secrets of Eorzea : Many players were very disappointed to see the name “Rogue” and not “Thief” in the E3 announcement. Respecting the lore of the game was understood but is it really the end of our hopes to see the “Thief” one day in FFXIV: ARR? Maybe, like the black mage who had a bad reputation in the history of FFXIV, the Thief might become the second job of the Rogue class?

Naoki Yoshida : It was a really, really tough decision for us as well because we are long time Final Fantasy fans. There was a heated debate internally as well to make this decision. But Final Fantasy is full of classic fans like myself, but we need to think about those new to the series as well, so it needs to make sense. In Final Fantasy XIV, every class has a guild, and just because we want to have that traditional role, we want it to make sense with the in-game lore. Especially when we want the game to run for ten years or longer, we need to make sure the relationship between the classes and jobs make sense.

We didn’t want to break the lore by naming classes based on our personal feelings, we wanted it to make sense with the story. So if you see Rogue in game, just in your mind, replace it with Thief. The class and the job and the way it works is really close to Thief, so just think of it as that. Thief won’t be coming as a name. In the story, it will be explained that these Rogues were at one time called Thieves. So it is definitely clear that Rogue equals Thief in the game.

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(Because it was a class and not a job it had to have a guild, which lead to some of the name issues, now jobs don't have that issue since they don't need guilds and our new jobs rarely have a class these days so really 'not an issue' in terms of name).

The problem with necromancer isn't that it has some sort of dark side - even being a bit 'silly' with crazy magic isn't forbidden in this game as it's a core lore point in a recent expansion ('but that was non-optional' one might say and I would point out they can do that for the job too, like they did to your soul shattering in FFXI), the problem is raising the dead in a game world where that is extremely sacrilegious. Now some people could just stop there and be like 'welp I guess it's dead in the water', but there ARE ways you could even dance around stuff like that. Like if you wanted to make some twists in the design or narrow the functions of the job the WoL practices, for example if you only raised monsters or only used monster essence and refused to enslave humanoids . That does produce something a bit like beastmaster but if you shifted it to perhaps more void like creatures it'd function well enough. "BUT VoId Is BaD!". Again, you can figure it out. Shattering your soul is probably pretty bad too but FFXI made it a concept for blue mage. That also ignores that necromancers are not always or simply just raising the dead, so yo could take it another direction and still be a necromancer (or a subset of that group) or they could take a huge influence from that concept so it's like 75% necro but give it some new paint and theme, not technically a necromancer anymore but much of the spirit (lol) could be maintained. "Can't give you classic dead raising necro exactly but we could create a branch of necromancy that focuses on X". Many possibilities and options.

The ultimate note is just that I see a sincere lack of problem solving and nailing all the walls inside the thought box when it comes to ideas someone isn't really for "CAN'T BE DONE, IMPOSSIBLE" I see people almost scream, while they try very little to not at all in thinking out the problem. Of course if you don't think then it can't be done lol, "I've been presented a problem and I refuse to solve it, therefore it's impossible".. So I'm just saying if SE really wanted to I'm sure they could make it happen and not have to retcon to do it either. "Okay so they might find some excuses here and there so it's not evil but it would still be taboo!" well yeah but I think that's half the reason some people ask for the job- they want to be taboo. Now the question is do they want to do all that extra thinking to make the job lol, is there an actual value to the game (within and without) that makes the challenge worthwhile. I believe the chance they do necro is a bit low due to all of the above but that it could exist and especially if someone on the team really enjoys the concept.

Generally I just don't like people shutting others down because it's something they don't care for and have put nearly zero effort into thinking around the issues (or sometimes you see people put effort in shutting it down because it's not what they want and we do only get a limited number of jobs each expansion). Far more interesting to see people show what they want then shutdown what they don't want with limited problem solving (that isn't to say people lack intelligence that is to say people are not using their skill sets when shutting things down because they don't really want it in the first place, choosing to deactivate tools to make it seem impossible rather than buckling up the shoes and pulling out their compass- especially since many of the people I see have proven their creativity and problem solving skills elsewhere, particularly when the concept was of interest to them lol).

Just for a clarity sake since I spent time defending something that isn't my priority lol- personally not significantly invested into the idea, nor am I particularly invested into Chemist either, but I do think it would be weird in an interesting way and would certainly raise my eyebrows and curiosity higher than chemist would (simply because I'd be like 'oh how did they do it, did they have fun with it!?" like Dark Knight I also feel these jobs can have extra fun stories). My desired jobs would be more in line with a battle mage (inverse of Red Mage) like a Golbez or Sauron with might and ferocity (which I've occasionally based off the idea of 'Geoknight', also seen in FFXVI's trailer in a sense), or a transformation job ideally dark like Vincent from FF7 / Dirge (chaos materia) / Yuri from Shadow Hearts / Dante from DMC, or like forbidden primal magic with hints of Terra Branford from FFVI and a bit in the new FFXVI game.

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Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

It wouldn't be a melee then would it? Cast times? ew

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I think it's cool on Samurai, but I also think SE could play with that idea more. Like for example on Samurai I believe you should be able to cancel out the cast early and it would just do marginally less damage (enough that 100% cast is preferred, not enough to ruin your numbers forever if you messed it up lol- can leave jump and esc as a way to true cancel the spell still just in case someone needs that option), rather than kill the whole cast. When bard had it, that too (of course the community prefers the machinegun bard so shouldn't add it back that's for sure lol). Or like black mage could use leyline while casting, meaning they could teleport back to their leyline mid cast without interrupting their cast.

Some ideas I've mixed with Geoknight, void mage, and Eldritch healer, were concepts like being able to add your cast to a construct- meaning you might create two void spheres (or elemental pylons) and have them begin a cast and then continue to perform some other sort of melee attacks at the same time (among other interactions with the pylons). So you could have cast times but also largely not lol. Perhaps titan punch someone into a gaol that has a cast time to explode.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

So is thief, but they thought that was morally sus enough to not include it so I can't see them doing necromancer.

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Thief is Rogue. Sorry to sink your battleship.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I want it for that reason though.

Necromancy isn't inherently evil. It's all about how you use it. :)

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The lore of the world of FFXIV is such that necromancy actively hurts Hydalyn, so in the case of the player character, necromancery IS inherently evil. We literally have content devoted to this with Edda. That's not even to mention the issues of censorship of the job in countries like China or Yoshida stating that certain jobs like thief or necromancer are too dark for the hero of light to fill.


That part said. Berserker (as others have said) is Warrior in this game. Ink Mages are Arcanists without the carbuncle. The only teaser I could see being a new job is Apothecary. We are due a new healing job, and many have been hoping for a less magically inclined healing job, not to mention that Chemist was the basis of all magic jobs in Final Fantasy Tactics, making it a good fit for the role, not to mention that there simply aren't many other healing focused jobs in the series to pull from. That's not to say that all of these teasers aren't just red herrings and Square won't just make up new jobs or add something unexpected. With no tee shirts from Yoshida yet for us to speculate off of, we're still all just stumbling blind.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I want it for that reason though.

Necromancy isn't inherently evil. It's all about how you use it. :)

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Necromancer is most certainly dead on arrival due to Chinese market. I went into a bit more detail in the links I posted earlier, but basically all undead assets are reskinned for the Chinese version, so it would be a huge amount of work that would need a huge amount of overhaul. Not worth the time investment.

Again, I think the bosses in heroes gauntlet were a tongue and cheek joke towards jobs they will never add.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Yoshida stating that certain jobs like thief or necromancer are too dark for the hero of light to fill.

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Source?

We have source that he says Rogue is Thief. We also have ninja which is an assassin, so I think it be a bit silly that he would say that but I'm doubting he actually did say that as well.

Necromancer of course I'll leave as a challenge, not that I think it's impossible but certainly 1,000% darker than a thief or assassin lol. Personally see the rate possibility go from exceptionally low if it's undead focused to fair (fair meaning just about as likely as any other random uncommon job) if you go more into communing with the dead or soul magic sort of concepts. Poison, soul, whatever, just not bringing back human zombies (at which point you'd give it a different name but the core concepts would carry on, like Thief is Rogue in many ways and as Yoshida has said, it's just not a job so you can't end game 'thief' / rogue lol).

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I'm starting to get the idea that people who want Berserker just really, really wish warrior was relegated to dps role.

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Which is still kind of silly, because if this happened (which it won't), if anything Warrior would remain as is and Berserker would become the actual DPS class.

Why is it necromancy is only talked about in the terms of raising the dead when a version of necromancy already exists in this game that we have seen in this very expansion.

Soul magic, while it wouldn’t be a hundred percent accurate depiction of a necromancer, you could work around a lot of the negative associations of necromancy by creating a job that uses soul magic, using raw aether to create constructs that amplify your own attacks (rather than summoner pets which i know is going to be brought up.) something more akin to Personas from the persona series. Not raising the dead so much as manipulating various souls and soul-esque energy to attack with.. just a passing shower thought.

Would also make sense with Alisaie’s new training with Beq Lugg (sp?)

Considering the 5.3 story line I'd expect an apothecary class.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Source?

We have source that he says Rogue is Thief. We also have ninja which is an assassin, so I think it be a bit silly that he would say that but I'm doubting he actually did say that as well.

Necromancer of course I'll leave as a challenge, not that I think it's impossible but certainly 1,000% darker than a thief or assassin lol. Personally see the rate possibility go from exceptionally low if it's undead focused to fair (fair meaning just about as likely as any other random uncommon job) if you go more into communing with the dead or soul magic sort of concepts. Poison, soul, whatever, just not bringing back human zombies (at which point you'd give it a different name but the core concepts would carry on, like Thief is Rogue in many ways and as Yoshida has said, it's just not a job so you can't end game 'thief' / rogue lol).

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It's hard to find a source for his comment but yes, he's said that it wouldn't make sense from a storytelling standpoint to have the WoL, savior of worlds also be trained as and considered a Thief that robs people. Rogue is Thief in everything but name and lore but Rogues aren't Thieves and that's an important distinction to make.

And the problem with Necro is that it's not a "Final Fantasy" Job. Sure necromancers are a common trope in fantasy but when many people think of a playable Job or Class in Final Fantasy Necromancer is most likely never going to be on that list. We've had numerous encounters with different Necromancers on why it's never a good idea; even if someone were to approach your character to tell them that there's a way to do it 'safely' that just involves souls the logical answer based on your experiences would be a hard no. There's no feasible way to include a playable Necro that doesn't break lore or suspension of disbelief.

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Originally Posted by GucciSan

It's hard to find a source for his comment but yes, he's said that it wouldn't make sense from a storytelling standpoint to have the WoL, savior of worlds also be trained as and considered a Thief that robs people. Rogue is Thief in everything but name and lore but Rogues aren't Thieves and that's an important distinction to make.

And the problem with Necro is that it's not a "Final Fantasy" Job. Sure necromancers are a common trope in fantasy but when many people think of a playable Job or Class in Final Fantasy Necromancer is most likely never going to be on that list. We've had numerous encounters with different Necromancers on why it's never a good idea; even if someone were to approach your character to tell them that there's a way to do it 'safely' that just involves souls the logical answer based on your experiences would be a hard no. There's no feasible way to include a playable Necro that doesn't break lore or suspension of disbelief.

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Going to need a source before I believe he said the WoL couldn't be a thief because it's too dark, meanwhile we can train to be killers. Seems like a made up quote, especially given context of other FF games. Further as I can source that he said Rogue is equal to Thief. That they didn't want to make a guild in a city called thieves guild because it sounded funny, that's more believable- but that's where we don't care anymore either because our jobs have not used a class in a long while. Doesn't need a guild. Also, robinhood, or the whole setup that is Limsa (you can steal though you're supposed to be doing it from Garleans, and up until recent time it was fine from other city states).. Or in context of Dark Knight "I only kill the bad guys" lol- yeah sure thief bad but killer good. Queue the eye roll, even if Yoshida did say it that would be my response (as it's potentially possible he said it, even if I doubt it, but I don't believe he said or at least meant it how it's being worded here- if thief stole from the corrupt like Dark Knight.. kills the corrupt.. lol then I doubt he'd said what you're suggesting that the concept of being a thief itself is just too dark).

As for your second point that's where you're lacking the desire for a creative solution. Like Blue Mage in FFXI they could apply something like that here (you basically, a bit non-consensually, break your soul lol), if they really wanted to add it. The question is if it would add enough to make that extra effort with it. Besides we've already broken the safety barrier a number of times, with our latest safety barrier being that we could have destroyed an entire shard. So yeah.. no. . . lol. As an aside I'd love to see more dialog about that sort of thing, I feel it's a fun point to discuss further- enjoyed that it made the scions uneasy in the recent event and would have liked to hear more 'debate' on that.

You're wrapping yourself up tightly in the lore without applying any creative solutions. "there is a problem" but then refusing to generate solutions. Of course there is a problem, I agree but just like with SMN there can be solutions. Can doesn't mean have to be, dev team, or players can still think it's totally not worth it, but that "there is no way to introduce this concept without retcon" I would say is dishonest, assuming your willing to get creative. Like when it was asked for a beast tribe that wasn't standard (in this case it was Tonberry) and the response was 'can't cause they're not beasts'- well look what happened where not only could they but they also did and they made a lore page in their book to explain how.

I'm glad the lore is loved, because its good, but there are too many can'ts that revolve around "until SE does it, it's not possible, it's impossible, infeasible, no logical way it can change, ever and ever, until SE does it at least and then I'll 180 my tune and ignore that I said it couldn't happen".

That they might not want to is believable, and so they'd say "yeah hahaha no we're not going to do that, besides our lore makes that a nono", but that they can't due to the story- well frankly just seems like a lie and an excuse to close conversations because of a lack of trying to create potential solutions.

Just for clarity I use the quotes not directly for your wording but more in the sense the vibe I read as a collective from people that use the lore to prevent things, and have on multiple occasions restricted themselves into the wrong path even though they said it as if it was an immutable fact.

Necro, at least relating to undead (humanoids in particular), is exceptionally unlikely due to china and the lore- sure, but that it cannot be done, especially if you go away from raising the dead (which isn't a requirement to be necromancer/necro like) and even more so if you inspire the vibes of necromancer without the title- well it's not a fact "that" can't be done.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Why is it necromancy is only talked about in the terms of raising the dead when a version of necromancy already exists in this game that we have seen in this very expansion.

Soul magic, while it wouldn’t be a hundred percent accurate depiction of a necromancer, you could work around a lot of the negative associations of necromancy by creating a job that uses soul magic, using raw aether to create constructs that amplify your own attacks (rather than summoner pets which i know is going to be brought up.) something more akin to Personas from the persona series. Not raising the dead so much as manipulating various souls and soul-esque energy to attack with.. just a passing shower thought.

Would also make sense with Alisaie’s new training with Beq Lugg (sp?)

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Seems to be two parts, usually, one if it's not a desired job I think people are concerned it would take / threaten the slot of something they would want (and these slots are limited), and two people like to share their knowledge of the lore but it seems many will usually wrap themselves up in chains when they do so. It's happened a few times but I like referencing the SMN as the easiest and most obvious example, many who are big into the lore (because it's cool and good) came into SMN threads of those asking for some larger / more representative primal content and said "it's impossible" and other variations of "it can't be done". Now the lore does put some stop signs up, that is true, but many who were into the story took the stop signs as impenetrable walls and couldn't see outside of the box they put themselves into. Obviously we're all aware of the end result with demi, largely a very well received addition to the job (sometimes to the point some people want the whole job based around it).

Seems like an often feature of talking about necromancer where it's either 'ew' or 'can't fit' but neither group gave any attempt to or wanted it to actually make a fit, well because frankly they weren't interested lol. It could totally fit, if you play around with it- that question should be would it be a fun fit / worth it?

As you said, Necromancer is not simply raising the dead. And you said that we could focus on the side features as if raising the dead has to be the main feature in order to be a necromancer:

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Necromancy (/ˈnɛkrəmænsi/)[1][2] is the practice of magic involving communication with the dead – either by summoning their spirits as apparitions, visions or raising them bodily – for the purpose of divination, imparting the means to foretell future events, discover hidden knowledge, to bring someone back from the dead, or to use the dead as a weapon. Sometimes referred to as "Death Magic", the term may also sometimes be used in a more general sense to refer to black magic or witchcraft.[3][4]

The word necromancy is adapted from Late Latin necromantia, itself borrowed from post-Classical Greek νεκρομαντεία (nekromanteía), a compound of Ancient Greek νεκρός (nekrós), "dead body", and μαντεία (manteía), "divination by means of"; this compound form was first used by Origen of Alexandria in the 3rd century AD.[5] The Classical Greek term was ἡ νέκυια (nekyia), from the episode of the Odyssey in which Odysseus visits the realm of the dead souls and νεκρομαντεία in Hellenistic Greek, rendered as necromantīa in Latin, and as necromancy in 17th-century English.[6]

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Seems to me, at least historically- outside of video games (lol), the most important part was speaking with / interacting with the dead and not strictly "raising" the dead as slaves. Now of course there are some historical expectation in video games so I'm not going to pretend that image doesn't exist, but just clearly to show for those who show interest you've got so much wiggle room and if you just give it another name but use the imagery of necromancer as inspiration you can effectively add necromancer into the game while also avoiding much of the other issues that might be associated. As you mention, the soul magic that we've seen recently could be a start.

So in other words the people who say no just don't want or don't care to try and fit it- the whole thing is a no and nothing can be done. Which is why I tend to call it out.. even though I'm not dying for necromancer (though I would love to see a dark theme job in general, a clearly taboo job, and if possible in the format of transformation). The point being something necromancer, or some image of it (like how Rogue is Thief, said by Yoshida himself), could exist (if SE really, really, wanted to lol- not saying it would be as straight forward as adding some other jobs).

It's that the effort is not worth what it would cost to them, like costing another interesting job, or making them feel uncomfortable that our hero might play with dark magic (even though we've had a few situations already that were pretty dark- I mean we could have killed an entire city with ease a few times in the recent story, yet we were packing that heat around cause no other choice or so at least what we told ourselves, that concept could be used for a job). Like I reference blue mage in FFXI, where you in effect break your soul so you can fill it with monster energy and eventually or so the game says all will end up as mind flayers. That's pretty dark and how the game sort of made it a bit consensual non-consensual allowed it to be both dark yet a thing you've done.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

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He might have said it during a Fanfest Q&A or something like that so that's why it might be hard to find in print.

And while someone could get wrapped up in the moral differences between killing someone and stealing from them, what it comes down to is that every Job except a hypethetical Thief would involve using their skills to defend others. Training as a Thief would logically only be done for the sake of robbing others, and that's where the problem is. So they gave us Rogue which act as backalley enforcers of a code of law that is more or less morally sound.

You could come up with a solution like they did with SMN, but it doesn't change the fact that messing with the dead is very taboo in Eorzea. They went as far as to bury Zeno's body in secret because they didn't want people to desecrate his corpse. Even messing around with souls and interacting with the Lifestream wouldn't be looked kindly upon. No matter how you'd spin it people's opinions of us would change fast if they knew we were using the dead in any form for our ends.

And ignoring all of that, again, Necro isn't an iconic Final Fantasy Job. So when you say people would be upset at what it would cost them, you're right, because I would want something with more long standing history with the series, rather than a Job that was added as bonus content for a rerelease.

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Originally Posted by GucciSan

He might have said it during a Fanfest Q&A or something like that so that's why it might be hard to find in print.

And while someone could get wrapped up in the moral differences between killing someone and stealing from them, what it comes down to is that every Job except a hypethetical Thief would involve using their skills to defend others. Training as a Thief would logically only be done for the sake of robbing others, and that's where the problem is. So they gave us Rogue which act as backalley enforcers of a code of law that is more or less morally sound.

You could come up with a solution like they did with SMN, but it doesn't change the fact that messing with the dead is very taboo in Eorzea. They went as far as to bury Zeno's body in secret because they didn't want people to desecrate his corpse. Even messing around with souls and interacting with the Lifestream wouldn't be looked kindly upon. No matter how you'd spin it people's opinions of us would change fast if they knew we were using the dead in any form for our ends.

And ignoring all of that, again, Necro isn't an iconic Final Fantasy Job. So when you say people would be upset at what it would cost them, you're right, because I would want something with more long standing history with the series, rather than a Job that was added as bonus content for a rerelease.

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Fair points (still want to see the source if anyone can find it, as I'm thinking at the moment it's along the lines of "Thal's Balls" - George Washington lol). My arguments might be close to splitting hairs but I see fairly frequently lore used as a bludgeon of 'factual' no, when it has regularly been shown to not even be true (not the lore, that the no based on lore didn't prevent changes in the future). Like if someone asked to see a person again someone might be like "impossible they're dead" and meanwhile FF is doing electroboogaloo 500 with a rebirth, so no it wasn't impossible lol. Then the conversation evolves into something better if people admit that it's not 100% true but they hope it is because they're sick of people coming back, then you know why they don't want it over just saying something that isn't actually solidified.

Generally seeing conversations shut down gets my hairs standing up (necromancer isn't even a main desire, just a "oh that could be interesting"), and then seeing people shut it down as a mater of fact "you've no ground here I'm 100% right, there is no way I can be wrong" sort of way really gets me shaking my head like "you're probably going to be right but you COULD be wrong, why are you acting like you're infallible?". Worse yet because I see this then spread where then even more start to say it as if it's 100% requirement god given law of nature... So I might occasionally hop in and post a few walls being like "no it's not, even if you're most likely going to be right you're not guaranteed to be". Also why I want to see that source if someone can find it, as I'm sure it's going to spread Yoshida said something and at least when I googled it I found nothing of the sort.

As for the lifestream part we do already have a soul mage that's on the good guy side, so that helps, could also put in stuff like you only use the aether of monsters or whatever. I get if people don't want it, or even if the devs are like y...ikes no thanks lol, but that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY, NONEEEEEE.. I have some words, many of them :p.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Source?

We have source that he says Rogue is Thief. We also have ninja which is an assassin, so I think it be a bit silly that he would say that but I'm doubting he actually did say that as well.

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It might be one of those things that's been repeated so much and no one remembers the source so it's become a "fact", I also remember seeing it mentioned somewhere years ago but like you I can't find a source. I did find this little tidbit though:

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The Rogues were once thieves but through time they’ve evolved into their own respected guild. Why would a city allow a thieves guild? This is the reason they are not called thieves.

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So while he's not calling them evil he's at least aware of the negative connotations and apparently feels like it wouldn't make sense for a city to host or welcome a thieves guild.

(source: https://novacrystallis.com/2014/06/f...announcements/)

So, to me personally, if something relatively benign like a thieves guild makes no sense to be operating openly in a city, then the WoL, hero of the hour, maybe the most loved and celebrated person in the realm, casually disturbing and raising the dead (but for good, pinky swear) makes absolutely 0 sense.

All the stuff about soul mages and communicating with the dead is very nice, but it's generally not what people are asking for with these threads. They want the Necromancer from Heroes' Gauntlet, raising the dead and using them to do their bidding.

And while I definitely think it's a really cool idea in general and certainly nothing is impossible, with what we've seen of Necromancers in the game and our own role in the story it just feels like a really bad fit for us to be one.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

It might be one of those things that's been repeated so much and no one remembers the source so it's become a "fact", I also remember seeing it mentioned somewhere years ago but like you I can't find a source. I did find this little tidbit though:



So while he's not calling them evil he's at least aware of the negative connotations and apparently feels like it wouldn't make sense for a city to host or welcome a thieves guild.

(source: https://novacrystallis.com/2014/06/f...announcements/)

So, to me personally, if something relatively benign like a thieves guild makes no sense to be operating openly in a city, then the WoL, hero of the hour, maybe the most loved and celebrated person in the realm, casually disturbing and raising the dead (but for good, pinky swear) makes absolutely 0 sense.

All the stuff about soul mages and communicating with the dead is very nice, but it's generally not what people are asking for with these threads. They want the Necromancer from Heroes' Gauntlet, raising the dead and using them to do their bidding.

And while I definitely think it's a really cool idea in general and certainly nothing is impossible, with what we've seen of Necromancers in the game and our own role in the story it just feels like a really bad fit for us to be one.

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Now that part makes sense, that the city wouldn't want a thieves guild (especially as their leader is trying to clean up the city, and it was far more pirate-y before)- but that's not the WoL which is where I was focusing on. Like the idea WoL must be evil if they're a Thief- doubt that he said that or intended that. Since it's also a job that's had major characters be part of it, honestly would be a slip up I feel to label thief an evil given the history of the other FF games. Of course having a thief 'job' would have been far easier to produce than a thieves guild which sounds kind of scummy. As I said, Robinhood could be a reference for a good 'thief' or it could be more secretive like some of our other jobs. Since it was a class and not a job though it had to be a guild, and as they had wanted to blend it into Ninja like they did archer into Bard. Like how Ninja was the advanced job of thief before.

That thieves are evil and therefore WoL cant be one I feel is a bit "...did he really say that? I'm pressing doubt right now, and I think you're stretching what was said or perhaps wasn't even said". Naturally that stretch can be accidental since it could be heard from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from no where but spread it because they thought it was real.

Agree on the unlikelyness in so much as at least the title and especially if it had to do with raising the dead :P. I just don't like people going hardcore 'matter of factly, I've got the goods as proof, you've no room to argue here' shutdown the desire, if someone so had wished to struggle through the hurdles that exist to make such a job a thing. I agree some people do want the bones of necro, but I've seen a few people ask for just the sort of nature of necro rather than the skeleton part. Even myself, for more of a fun experiment, suggested an eldritch / 'dark' healer with some inspiration from necromancer (doesn't raise the dead though, didn't want to deal with those hurdles lol). Even if you did bones though you might argue it was creatures or something, that's not the end of the issues but it certainly can start to pry open the problem (new issues like enter China, but yeah it might require multiple steps but I still don't believe it's "impossible" if someone had the desire to make it happen).

That there might be a dark job that uses some unusual tools I think is quite a bit more possible though, if they had wanted to deal with the dark nature without having to dance around raising dead people or the pre-written concept that necro is a bad man. Which is why I reference (FFXI) blue mage sometimes as an example of where you might have granted the players powers without them lore wise going out to do that weird bad thing. Or why I reference the point in the story we're very dangerous to everyone. That they 'could' write in such a way that you're not, at least in the beginning, intentionally using something sketchy (and even the intentional part could be a "better trained then praying I don't accidentally blow my top").

+1 for finding ancient sources, took me a little bit to find the thief one too lol (Yoshida saying Rogue is equal to Thief in concept).

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

I wonder if it's at all worth pointing out the Necromancer in Hero's Gauntlet is a summoned hero from another plane, implying it's possible to be a heroic Necromancer...

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It is, like there have been other 'good' necromancers (not common but is a thing). Of course still the challenge of raising the dead in our own game, while I don't think the lore stops us from doing most things (like the lore for SMN didn't stop demi), I still don't want to bulldoze it so we'd have to be mindful of that lol (which is why I'm trying to move away from 100% can't be done to, 'if you want it lets figure it out, cause we're going to need to do some figuring here lol' :P).

I wonder if it's at all worth pointing out the Necromancer in Hero's Gauntlet is a summoned hero from another plane, implying it's possible to be a heroic Necromancer...

It's as Yencat said. It was a comment made in passing on a Q&A some time back wherein he dismissed certain jobs as being too dark or nonsensical for the Warrior of Light to fill.

I'm attempting to find it, but considering how the statement was made, documentation is hard to come by (espeically when we're trying to look through seven years of his comments and interviews to try to find one comment) I'll update if/when I can find it. But as it goes, I would venture to say that dark knight is about as far as we're going to get in this direction.

Also it's not that thieves are evil, but there was a distinction between a thief and a rogue in that rogue uses stealth and the same types of abilities you'd associate with being a thief, but doesn't exist to steal from other people. But Rogues, they can act as spies and covert operativevs of the Lominsan government (much like how the marauders and arcanists also work for the government there) Ultimately with thief/rogue the outcome is the same, and it's just a matter of semantics when people say they want thief.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

I wonder if it's at all worth pointing out the Necromancer in Hero's Gauntlet is a summoned hero from another plane, implying it's possible to be a heroic Necromancer...

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The necromancer there was a direct reference to Lenna Tycoon from FFV. Necromancer was a bonus job in the re-release of the game on GBA and if you compare the models it's wearing exactly her same outfit from that game. (Also the first boss was Locke from FFVI)

Necromancy might work different on the world of V, but we do already have lore about how it works in XIV and that makes it inherently a destructive act.

I would like to point out that, technically speaking, the WoL has already practiced necromancy in an unwitting fashion.

Dark Knight questline spoilers, natch:

Unlocking the Dark Knight Job requires interacting with the corpse of Fray Myste, and his sudden liveliness is the result of the WoL subconsciously manifesting their newfound power within his corpse so that "Fray" can act as a mentor figure. This ends up getting the WoL into trouble with the Temple Knights at the end of the 30-50 questline, culminating in "Fray" trying to kill everyone in Whitebrim Front and the WoL having to stop them.

The 60-70 questline also involves another manifestation of that power, "Myste", creating aetherial constructs of the recently deceased that behave more or less how their friends and family expected them to in life. "Myste" even uses this power against you in the level 70 quest, using multiple simulacrum to fight you in the same manner that a Necromancer would use skeletons, zombies, and so on.

That's not to say I think they're going to make a Job out of raising the dead. Accidental necromancy is one thing—making a living out of the living dead is another. I don't see us ever being able to willfully summon voidsent to do our bidding, either. But a Darkness-themed Healer would be a cool idea, I think. And maybe Chemist could be a ranged DPS, instead of a Healer like everyone is expecting. Potions do more than just heal, after all.

Dark Knight questline spoilers reply:

So might be interpretation of the quest, but the Warrior of Light never actually raises Fray from the dead to train him. The Temple Knights accuse him of talking to a corpse in the 30-50 quests, implying more that the warrior of light kind of went a little crazy and as carrying around Fray's dead body and thinking it was training him/her. Or at least that's how I always understood what was going on in the quests.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

I would like to point out that, technically speaking, the WoL has already practiced necromancy in an unwitting fashion.

Dark Knight questline spoilers, natch:

Unlocking the Dark Knight Job requires interacting with the corpse of Fray Myste, and his sudden liveliness is the result of the WoL subconsciously manifesting their newfound power within his corpse so that "Fray" can act as a mentor figure. This ends up getting the WoL into trouble with the Temple Knights at the end of the 30-50 questline, culminating in "Fray" trying to kill everyone in Whitebrim Front and the WoL having to stop them.

The 60-70 questline also involves another manifestation of that power, "Myste", creating aetherial constructs of the recently deceased that behave more or less how their friends and family expected them to in life. "Myste" even uses this power against you in the level 70 quest, using multiple simulacrum to fight you in the same manner that a Necromancer would use skeletons, zombies, and so on.

That's not to say I think they're going to make a Job out of raising the dead. Accidental necromancy is one thing—making a living out of the living dead is another. I don't see us ever being able to willfully summon voidsent to do our bidding, either. But a Darkness-themed Healer would be a cool idea, I think. And maybe Chemist could be a ranged DPS, instead of a Healer like everyone is expecting. Potions do more than just heal, after all.

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On Dark Knight topic you perform Lich-lite powers with your Living Dead skill. Pretty close to necromancy lol, but on the self only.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

This game's Warrior is basically Berserker, Necromancer would not make sense at all in this game's lore (which kinda goes out of its way to say necromancy is a Bad Thing), and we already have Alchemist as a crafter.

So no, I wouldn't say it's hinting at any of them.

Have you even done any of the Warrior job quests? There's far more of a "berserker" quality to the class than simply having an ability called Berserk.

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I have not started warrior yet I thought about it but it looks more like a heavy armor 2hand warrior. Than a primal creature with brute berserking strength with little armor.

Next, you all know that jobs and classes are not good or villian in nature right?

you can have heroic lightfull necromancers and dark nature classes but working on the side of the light. Also do note in hero dungeon the necromancer and theif are warriors of light in there realms.. and they think your evil

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Dark Knight questline spoilers reply:

So might be interpretation of the quest, but the Warrior of Light never actually raises Fray from the dead to train him. The Temple Knights accuse him of talking to a corpse in the 30-50 quests, implying more that the warrior of light kind of went a little crazy and as carrying around Fray's dead body and thinking it was training him/her. Or at least that's how I always understood what was going on in the quests.

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That was the product of the English localization significantly rewriting the text in the level 50 quest. I really don't get the reason why, save for perhaps that the translator was a big fan of Fight Club.

https://haillenarte.tumblr.com/post/...quests-part-ii

It is actually pretty crazy how different the Japanese text is to the English text. But yes, the corpse-possession is explicit in the Japanese text, whereas the English text tries very hard to push the idea that Fray isn't actually real and the WoL is having a psychotic breakdown. From what I recall, the English text mostly stops pushing that angle after this. Nobody pretends "Myste" doesn't exist, and Sidurgu reacts to "Fray" in the level 70 quest just fine.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

snip

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They could "whitewash" it a bit, but we got BLU in the way it is because they wanted to stay 'true to the essence of the job' so it seems unlikely they'd steer so far what most people know a Necromancer to be or even the ones we've encountered in the game. I think what makes people buckle at the idea is that necromancy generally involves unwilling participants being turned/raised as mindless thralls and then being discarded when they've served their purpose, which could really only work well if our character wasn't such a goody two-shoes.

So while they could clean up the image and theme a bit, at that point just name it something else I feel like?

They could definitely do another darker themed job though, just let the poor dead rest! ;)

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

That was the product of the English localization significantly rewriting the text in the level 50 quest. I really don't get the reason why, save for perhaps that the translator was a big fan of Fight Club.

https://haillenarte.tumblr.com/post/...quests-part-ii

It is actually pretty crazy how different the Japanese text is to the English text. But yes, the corpse-possession is explicit in the Japanese text, whereas the English text tries very hard to push the idea that Fray isn't actually real and the WoL is having a psychotic breakdown. From what I recall, the English text mostly stops pushing that angle after this. Nobody pretends "Myste" doesn't exist, and Sidurgu reacts to "Fray" in the level 70 quest just fine.

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That's so interesting!

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Originally Posted by Yencat

They could "whitewash" it a bit, but we got BLU in the way it is because they wanted to stay 'true to the essence of the job' so it seems unlikely they'd steer so far what most people know a Necromancer to be or even the ones we've encountered in the game. I think what makes people buckle at the idea is that necromancy generally involves unwilling participants being turned/raised as mindless thralls and then being discarded when they've served their purpose, which could really only work well if our character wasn't such a goody two-shoes.

So while they could clean up the image and theme a bit, at that point just name it something else I feel like?

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You bringing it up this way makes me think of the story of another game.... during the Eldritch Moon story in Magic the Gathering, the remaining Cathars invoke benevolent spirits to help protect them against the eldritch horrors that were infesting their world. So I could see a more benevolent type of necromancer being a type of pet job that summons the spirts of the departed to help them fight. Though at that point, the job would be fairly fair removed from a classic necromancer and might not even be considered the same job by the players.

And unless they think it's too spoilery, they could have characters like Hauchrafant, Ysale, and Papalymo being warriors of light we could invoke to perform greater feats

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Originally Posted by Yencat

They could "whitewash" it a bit, but we got BLU in the way it is because they wanted to stay 'true to the essence of the job' so it seems unlikely they'd steer so far what most people know a Necromancer to be or even the ones we've encountered in the game. I think what makes people buckle at the idea is that necromancy generally involves unwilling participants being turned/raised as mindless thralls and then being discarded when they've served their purpose, which could really only work well if our character wasn't such a goody two-shoes.

So while they could clean up the image and theme a bit, at that point just name it something else I feel like?

They could definitely do another darker themed job though, just let the poor dead rest! ;)

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Whitewashing would certainly be the easiest lol (it's why I didn't bring up zombies in my dark healer thread XD). Technically necromancers don't have to raise the dead to be one, certain games and history have this concept (the general definition has nothing to do with raising them), but obviously one of the more popular is skeleton army type stuff. But your response exactly what I'm trying to encourage, "well that'd be really hard... but like.. we could do this instead, has like 80% spirit of necromancer.." lol. Rather than NIEN NIEN NIEN, it's impossible. XD

Also to be clear not everyone going "eeh...." is going for the shutdown I'm arguing against (since some people might be like "bro I was just saying it's unlikely, jesus lol"), being hesitant or not for something is different than just flat out saying it's impossible like it's a waste of breath and screen space to wish for.

Also like Thief to Rogue they can make something's nature without it's name, so if someone wants Necromancer they might get much of what they wanted even if the name wasn't the same. So again why I was trying to prevent the straight bulldozing :p.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

You bringing it up this way makes me think of the story of another game.... during the Eldritch Moon story in Magic the Gathering, the remaining Cathars invoke benevolent spirits to help protect them against the eldritch horrors that were infesting their world. So I could see a more benevolent type of necromancer being a type of pet job that summons the spirts of the departed to help them fight. Though at that point, the job would be fairly fair removed from a classic necromancer and might not even be considered the same job by the players.

And unless they think it's too spoilery, they could have characters like Hauchrafant, Ysale, and Papalymo being warriors of light we could invoke to perform greater feats

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Hype idea. If they do soul magic they might not require the dead either, could theoretically have like Goku Spirit bomb where you ask for the energy of your friends. Politely of course... "I swear if you don't lend your strength Urianger I will burn your books and never listen to another poem". He'll totally help out! :3

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Originally Posted by wereotter

You bringing it up this way makes me think of the story of another game.... during the Eldritch Moon story in Magic the Gathering, the remaining Cathars invoke benevolent spirits to help protect them against the eldritch horrors that were infesting their world. So I could see a more benevolent type of necromancer being a type of pet job that summons the spirts of the departed to help them fight. Though at that point, the job would be fairly fair removed from a classic necromancer and might not even be considered the same job by the players.

And unless they think it's too spoilery, they could have characters like Hauchrafant, Ysale, and Papalymo being warriors of light we could invoke to perform greater feats

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I love that idea! It really makes all the difference whether you're petitioning benevolent spirits for aid vs. forcefully raising shambling, rotting corpses. There's a lot more dignity for the dead to it which is much more fitting for the WoL and the story.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Also to be clear not everyone going "eeh...." is going for the shutdown I'm arguing against (since some people might be like "bro I was just saying it's unlikely, jesus lol"), being hesitant or not for something is different than just flat out saying it's impossible like it's a waste of breath and screen space to wish for.

Also like Thief to Rogue they can make something's nature without it's name, so if someone wants Necromancer they might get much of what they wanted even if the name wasn't the same. So again why I was trying to prevent the straight bulldozing :p.

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People could speculate about Psychic from X for example because AFAIK there's nothing stopping it from existing but we have several NPCs and quests that say Necromancy=bad. It sort of comes across as people wanting Necro because it's cool while ignoring all evidence the game gives in universe that you shouldn't touch it. Like it would be interesting and I'd love to have more Egis on SMN, they've said we've hit our cap of 3 so it's reasonable to say we won't or shouldn't expect any more in the future. Likewise we've faced numerous bosses that have dabbled with the dead (I'm using physical bodies for the sake of argument) that have lost themselves in the process, and from what we've seen desecration of the dead is nearly universally accepted as culturally taboo, so it's again reasonable to say that a Necromancer isn't likely at all to be a playable Job. It's shown to be far too evil of a concept in Eorzea, even if you set aside Yoshida's Thief comment.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

I wonder if it's at all worth pointing out the Necromancer in Hero's Gauntlet is a summoned hero from another plane, implying it's possible to be a heroic Necromancer...

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Even if she was a WoL she referred to herself as tainted and has gone insane which is exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to the price to pay for Necromancy and the same thing happened to Edda and Nybeth. What she should tell you is we won't be any different if we did it too. And if they did add it and say that it corrupted everyone else, but not us because we're special then that easily pushes us into Mary Sue/Gary Stu territory. The WoL needs to have some limits of what they can do, and the ethics of tampering with the dead should stay one of them.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

I wonder if it's at all worth pointing out the Necromancer in Hero's Gauntlet is a summoned hero from another plane, implying it's possible to be a heroic Necromancer...

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Maybe, in her world, bringing people back from the dead to do your bidding, then spontaneously blowing them up, is considered heroic.

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Originally Posted by AncientWillow

I have not started warrior yet I thought about it but it looks more like a heavy armor 2hand warrior. Than a primal creature with brute berserking strength with little armor.

Next, you all know that jobs and classes are not good or villian in nature right?

you can have heroic lightfull necromancers and dark nature classes but working on the side of the light. Also do note in hero dungeon the necromancer and theif are warriors of light in there realms.. and they think your evil

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Warrior emphasizes controlling one's "inner beast", or essentially their primal bloodlust/rage. The job is inherently a bit risky as the weak-willed risk becoming consumed by their inner beast and becoming mindlessly aggressive to everything around them, while others willfully choose to let it dominate them which results a somewhat more coherent albeit still insane individual not unlike the berserker we see in the Hero's Gauntlet.

Necromancy is considered a huge taboo as the "true" form of it that lacks any connection to voidsent is likened to a perverted form of white magic (Which is already taboo) and I seriously doubt anyone would be on board with even the WoL getting involved with it. The spectral necromancer in the Hero's Gauntlet calling herself "tainted" kind of implies that's still the case even where she hails from.

The Hero's Gauntlet bosses are meant to be representations of Locke (Thief), Lenna (Necromancer), and Guy (Berserker). I don't believe they were meant to be hints to future jobs. It's supposedly been mentioned that there is a hint in the 5.3 MSQ of an upcoming job, but I think those three were not only there to be references, but also to be a bit of red herrings.

While it's entirely possible that the Yoshida could change his mind at any point, he's stated before that Thief won't happen due to them not wanting the WoL to be associated with any job that's objectively immoral, which stealing is. Dark Knight shows that dark themed things in general aren't off the table, but necromancy was painted with a strongly negative light in PotD (then again, the lore also paints summoners and BLM in the same boat, so who knows).

Apothecary seems to be the most likely candidate as we spend the first few quests surrounding an NPC who wants to be an Apothecary Warrior of Light, and those quests have literally nothing to do with the plot other than wag that in our face. Apothecary seems like a very strong contender for the healer slot.

Regarding the Ink Mage, I personally want to believe that was a more subtle hint the new DPS being Pictomancer (the thing that Relm Arrowny is in FF6) which I think would be a really nice option for a different Caster DPS. We just received our 3rd physical ranged in Dancer, and while we could receive our 4th right after, there's at least a bit of a reason to believe they'll avoid doing it back-to-back so players who aren't fond of physical ranged have a chance at something new. Casters technically have 4 options, but really that number is more like 3.2. Blue Mage isnt' even half a job if we're being honest. Counting it at all is being generous. My guess is Caster 4 will be 6.0 and Physical Ranged 4 will be 7.0.

Given that we already have 4 tanks, I don't see it happening, but we might see war turned more bezerk as it progresses towards 100....

I figure we're looking at a physical ranged DPS, a magical ranged DPS, and maybe a 4th healer.

Problem with the 4th healer is, we already have "precast" healer, and "reactive" healer, with a third that's able to do both. This game just wouldn't support any other kind of healer...

... maybe "instant cast" with potion throwing via chemist? Maybe one that does most of it's healing via regen... but you'd have to change how regen works with agro. Maybe if the potions created AOE's that healed over time by being in them?


So, what else in the history could be ranged physical or ranged DPS?

I'd love Necromancer to be a thing but they would have to make it unique enough that it doesn't fall into smn territory with pets / summons.
Perhaps something similar to how drks can bring fray in momentarily, either way I'd love for another super dark mage job.
I will be surprised if chemist doesn't make an appearance in some form especially because of the demand.

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Originally Posted by Darkpaw

Why is it necromancy is only talked about in the terms of raising the dead when a version of necromancy already exists in this game that we have seen in this very expansion.

Soul magic, while it wouldn’t be a hundred percent accurate depiction of a necromancer, you could work around a lot of the negative associations of necromancy by creating a job that uses soul magic, using raw aether to create constructs that amplify your own attacks (rather than summoner pets which i know is going to be brought up.) something more akin to Personas from the persona series. Not raising the dead so much as manipulating various souls and soul-esque energy to attack with.. just a passing shower thought.

Would also make sense with Alisaie’s new training with Beq Lugg (sp?)

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Wanted to say ... so much this. (wanted to quote the giant post quoting this but it was ... giant)

There is nothing stopping them from making a Necromancer-ish job that's Necro in all but name. A "Soulforger/ Soul Mage/ Aetherologist/ Esper/ Witch Doctor" or what ever name you wanna go with could be a job that deals with the aether of the soul-body-mind to deal Damage Over Time and perhaps focuses on debuffs by creating weaknesses in the aether, CC with aoe slows and binds and such and some heavy support (maybe can raise easier than a Smn but not as often as Rdm) with a darker or gloomy color theme (maybe purples and dark greens).
I do feel like the devs know they have too much stuff going on with Smn and would want to balance a proper Dot Mage as they move away from that with Smn. The concept of a dot mage is fine so long as you don't have juggle all the other wunky stuff that is Smn with it which is part of why I think some Dot Mage will be next.

People love focusing on the kitten (who may very well just be the story showing you that no, you don't have to worry ... the star showers making everyone want to be WoL doesn't mean everyone is just gonna run around being like you. WoL means different things to them and this girl wants to just be a medical woman instead of fighting people. Or it could be a hint at a new job about potions and stuff, who knows) but what I look at are the twins. I feel like the line about them getting their own job development is a hint at what's to come.

Alisaie had a whole arc about learning about the aether lore dump stuff and trained to practice in it. She wants to use what she's learned to help people on the source like Ga Bu. I feel like that could easily be what leads to a new job for her that's about manipulation of aether in some manner.
Don't know what elf boi would hint at for a healer.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Given that we already have 4 tanks, I don't see it happening, but we might see war turned more bezerk as it progresses towards 100....

I figure we're looking at a physical ranged DPS, a magical ranged DPS, and maybe a 4th healer.

Problem with the 4th healer is, we already have "precast" healer, and "reactive" healer, with a third that's able to do both. This game just wouldn't support any other kind of healer...

... maybe "instant cast" with potion throwing via chemist? Maybe one that does most of it's healing via regen... but you'd have to change how regen works with agro. Maybe if the potions created AOE's that healed over time by being in them?


So, what else in the history could be ranged physical or ranged DPS?

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They would first have to let go of this 1 or 2 button rotation for healers. At this point I feel like they would HAVE to add some more rotational complexity to the role to allow a 4th to work.
Anyway, feel like a melee Hammer using healer that heals by doing Damage would fit in nicely. Save some OGCD attacks for when you know you're gonna need a burst of heals/ shields. Passive Regen from basic combo. And like every healer they have an "oh shiiiit" button for w/e type of healing style they lack but is on a long cool down.

As for Ranged, IDK enough about FF jobs to point to one.
Feel like Chemist could be Ranged. Nothing really mana/ magic about mixing chemicals.
Maybe they could make a Explosions Expert job that tosses bombs with a grenade launcher. Bomber?

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Given that we already have 4 tanks, I don't see it happening, but we might see war turned more bezerk as it progresses towards 100....

I figure we're looking at a physical ranged DPS, a magical ranged DPS, and maybe a 4th healer.

Problem with the 4th healer is, we already have "precast" healer, and "reactive" healer, with a third that's able to do both. This game just wouldn't support any other kind of healer...

... maybe "instant cast" with potion throwing via chemist? Maybe one that does most of it's healing via regen... but you'd have to change how regen works with agro. Maybe if the potions created AOE's that healed over time by being in them?


So, what else in the history could be ranged physical or ranged DPS?

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They need to break the healer dichotomy. Regen/Shields is far too restrictive, and not really representative of what each healer brings anyway. SCH already has tons of regen and regen-like capabilities.
Once they eliminate that restriction, which is what they've been edging towards this expansion, then that won't be a consideration for the fourth healer. It'll be more about how they implement their heals and mitigation, not what form it comes in.
I mean literally all it would take to demolish the Regen/Shield or 'precast/reactive' dichotomy right now, is to give WHM a single AoE shield skill. That's it. SCH already covers all bases and AST can already do both, in two different combinations (each sect allows for both regens and shields in alternate forms)
Your 1 Regener, 1 Shielder and 1 that does both, is nothing but a formality. It's like saying PLD is an OT and WAR is a MT.

So yes, something with more instant cast, different ways of applying AoE effects, etc. would be great. So long as their skills allow them to bestow both regens and shields in some capacity, it'll work.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

There is nothing stopping them from making a Necromancer-ish job that's Necro in all but name.

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This is absolutely correct. However I would wonder if such a job would have too much overlap with SMN in terms of job mechanics, and too much overlap with BLM in terms of lore...

I think our best bet for a fourth Magical Ranged is Geomancer, specialising in ground based effects, party buffs and channelled spells. There's loads to work with in these mechanics that a unique spellcaster job could be built with, as well as utilising the elements that haven't been capitalised on by casters too much, Earth, Wind and Water, and could even see us get spells like Quake and Tornado. Obviously there's some WHM overlap, but they'd be entirely different roles (like SCH/SMN) and there's no need to involve the elementals of the Twelveswood at all.

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Originally Posted by lolicon09

You're raising corpses from the ground to use them as puppets to fight at your side. Hell, the boss in The Heroes' Gauntlet even makes them explode. That doesn't look like a pretty heroic activity, especially in the eyes of your allies

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That's an extreme example, she does regret what she has become but she's still a hero.

Necromancy roots were never evil, it just perverted that way. In other mediums there are white and gray Necromancers, those who commune with the dead and help grieving parents and lovers etc(this would be wild with the writer of DRK's job quest) or use consenting spirits.

But then what would they summon? In FF5 they summon demons, in this case it'd be unique voidlings, imagine if we could summons Anima.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Given that we already have 4 tanks, I don't see it happening

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Because 4 is such a huge number compared to DPS' 10, the world would end if they gave tanks and healers some variation huh.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

But then what would they summon? In FF5 they summon demons, in this case it'd be unique voidlings, imagine if we could summons Anima.

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Summoning Voidsent is what the 'bad' Black Mages do. Seen in the BLM job quests, and the whole Mhachi raid series. Not to mention Sorceror Xande and Cloud of Darkness.

I'd much rather Anima was utilised as a Trial or Raid series.

Berserker and Necromancer are unlikely.

Necromancer is too much rooted in the current lore as something intrinsically evil. They could change it to something like *random handwaving* aetherology, but then it would lose much of the Necromancer image.

Berserker overlaps too much with Warrior.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Summoning Voidsent is what the 'bad' Black Mages do. Seen in the BLM job quests, and the whole Mhachi raid series. Not to mention Sorceror Xande and Cloud of Darkness.

I'd much rather Anima was utilised as a Trial or Raid series.

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Black and White mages also use the void to fuel their magicks, I don't see why a Necromancer couldn't use enslaved voidlings as fuel.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

Black and White mages also use the void to fuel their magicks, I don't see why a Necromancer couldn't use enslaved voidlings as fuel.

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How do WHM use the Void?
BLM literally summon Voidsent, which is exactly what a void-centered "necromancer-but-not-in-name" would do.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

How do WHM use the Void?
BLM literally summon Voidsent, which is exactly what a void-centered "necromancer-but-not-in-name" would do.

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Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but both Black and White magic was forbidden right? Was it not because of the void? Or was it that it was draining the aether out of the land or both? I can't remember, either case it's forbidden but our WoL is an exception so why are you having difficulty with this logic? It applicable.