Gath wonders....

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Originally Posted by Destain

If it took you 4 hours to figure out a fight in any other FF would you not consider that difficult?

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For a game that last 120~ hours, yes. But for a game that you play for indefinite time, no...

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Originally Posted by Destain

You act like there was no learning curve to those fights. I'm glad you got win on your first tries cus your so leet gath! J/k

They were easy after you spammed them nonstop. You think anything is going to maintain difficulty after you 20th time doing it?

Yeah, it took you a day or two to get a win just like most people. So how about you propose some ideas on how to make these fights more difficult so SE know what you want instead of just giving the mob more HP?

I wouldn't mind increased situational abilities. I.E. GLA pop shield bash at just the right time to stop party devastating move... If no gla in party LNC will need to leg sweep. You get the idea.

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Because they were not hard. In any MMO figuring out a "main" boss from content is trial and error, but the sheer challenge is different from doing it multiple times.

Ifrit was not hard, the animation lag was and that's not a real challenge, it is crappy programming.

Moogle was easy because it didn't revolve around the moogles using animation lag to their advantage.

Pandy Warden in FFXI was hard, even though the two hour kill strategy was solid it still took an immense amount of skill of 18 different players.

Absolute virtue was also hard, as well as Vrtra, Nid, Byakko, etc.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

One of the main reasons why the moogle and ifrit fights feel tedious is because it's the only thing to do. It's obviously going to start feeling tedious after doing them for three to six months over and over. I do want more challenging content as well, but this is just filler content. That's probably why the loot system for these fights are like this. They're meant to last until they add more content.

Oh...and....yea..... it's not hard keeping mp up as a thm in the moogle fight.

Gath...you're a legend...man...

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Originally Posted by Leigh

Gath...you're a legend...man...

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Gath is a wonderful household name in the FFXIV community.

Everybody loves Gath.

In return, Gath loves all his fans.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Pandy Warden in FFXI was hard, even though the two hour kill strategy was solid it still took an immense amount of skill of 18 different players.

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Pandy Warden in FFXI wasn't hard, it took a total of 3 attempts for the first kill iirc. It took so long to kill because it takes forever to farm all the pops. If they let you re-attempt Pandy Warden multiple times they are joke.

It's also took immense amount of skill for Ifrit/Moogle but it was faster learning curve due to multiple attempts, practices makes perfect.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Absolute virtue was also hard, as well as Vrtra, Nid, Byakko, etc.

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Absolute Virtue wasn't hard, it was impossible. It was a troll attempt by Tanaka, it wasn't killable without wall of justice.
Then, they nerfed it and it was killed right away with KC DRK burn. They rebuffed it and it was harder because of partial resistance to souleater, it was mindless burn. LOLDIFFICULT. (this was all on lv75 era, i quitted before cap increase)

I admit Vrtra was hard, but it was due the amount of players u needed back then and to make sure everyone is on their duty, it was overall exciting fight.

Nid? Lol. Lol. lol........ Cmon now..

Byakko wasn't hard either, just need to be on balls with cures and multiple stuns, and getting lucky on byakko's triple attack, there was no real strategy, just stay alive.

While I personally do not fall into this category. There is a very very large percentage of the population who think Both Ifrit and Moogle are hard.

Please keep in mind, just because someone taught you how to do something the easy way, doesn't mean it's easy. If you want more difficult fights, stop looking up the easy strategies.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Pandy Warden in FFXI wasn't hard, it took a total of 3 attempts for the first kill iirc. It took so long to kill because it takes forever to farm all the pops. If they let you re-attempt Pandy Warden multiple times they are joke.

It's also took immense amount of skill for Ifrit/Moogle but it was faster learning curve due to multiple attempts, practices makes perfect.




Absolute Virtue wasn't hard, it was impossible. It was a troll attempt by Tanaka, it wasn't killable without wall of justice.
Then, they nerfed it and it was killed right away with KC DRK burn. They rebuffed it and it was harder because of partial resistance to souleater, it was mindless burn. LOLDIFFICULT. (this was all on lv75 era, i quitted before cap increase)

I admit Vrtra was hard, but it was due the amount of players u needed back then and to make sure everyone is on their duty, it was overall exciting fight.

Nid? Lol. Lol. lol........ Cmon now..

Byakko wasn't hard either, just need to be on balls with cures and multiple stuns, and getting lucky on byakko's triple attack, there was no real strategy, just stay alive.

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So much truth in this post. lol AV was just a troll monster.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Pandy Warden in FFXI wasn't hard, it took a total of 3 attempts for the first kill iirc. It took so long to kill because it takes forever to farm all the pops. If they let you re-attempt Pandy Warden multiple times they are joke.

It's also took immense amount of skill for Ifrit/Moogle but it was faster learning curve due to multiple attempts, practices makes perfect.




Absolute Virtue wasn't hard, it was impossible. It was a troll attempt by Tanaka, it wasn't killable without wall of justice.
Then, they nerfed it and it was killed right away with KC DRK burn. They rebuffed it and it was harder because of partial resistance to souleater, it was mindless burn. LOLDIFFICULT. (this was all on lv75 era, i quitted before cap increase)

I admit Vrtra was hard, but it was due the amount of players u needed back then and to make sure everyone is on their duty, it was overall exciting fight.

Nid? Lol. Lol. lol........ Cmon now..

Byakko wasn't hard either, just need to be on balls with cures and multiple stuns, and getting lucky on byakko's triple attack, there was no real strategy, just stay alive.

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Yet none of it was tedious, now was it?

All content can be easy with practice, but a lot of times people don't want to practice because of the tedium.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

So, let's set 24hr-72hr timer to every upcoming content? because the reason it wasn't tedious was because you don't repeat it alot of times per day, also make sure the NM is open-world so u can have some competition because less fighting means less tediousness, waiting is fun.

and if farming keypop for PW wasn't tedious, i dont know what is because the only reason PW wasnt attempted alot of times was due to the tediousness to farm the popitem.

The only thing they got it right was Limbus in terms this type of content, it has just the right amount needed to pop Omega and Ultima.. the 72hr entrance was still a ckblock but it was overshadowed mostly because FFXI had alot of contents to go around per week.

Salvage was fun and difficult but droprate was in general turned people down, it has the same tedious-ness as Primals due to drop rate.

Nyzul appealed to more people because droprate wasn't shittastic, but it wasn't a challenging cotnent.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Because they were not hard. In any MMO figuring out a "main" boss from content is trial and error, but the sheer challenge is different from doing it multiple times.

Ifrit was not hard, the animation lag was and that's not a real challenge, it is crappy programming.

Moogle was easy because it didn't revolve around the moogles using animation lag to their advantage.

Pandy Warden in FFXI was hard, even though the two hour kill strategy was solid it still took an immense amount of skill of 18 different players.

Absolute virtue was also hard, as well as Vrtra, Nid, Byakko, etc.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Gath forgot to talk in 3rd person .. /sigh

Not directed at Gath..
as others have mentioned about Ifrit and moogle though.
1:- next time dont' look up the best strategy.
2:- If we could only do content once a day or week it would have taken weeks and months before the first kill.

first good post that elreed reads about gaths, elreed believes that we need more difficulty and fights like moogle that are never the same.... ok enough of the weirdo third person talk

Ifrit battles are tedious after knowing all the strategy, theres no random skills at all, just making an example if they increased the time of plumes and cracks to explode they could make those appear in different parts of the arena, this is more talking about plumes they always appear in the same spots leaving several safety spots all the time, so you only need to know wheres the safety zone and stand there as mage all the time, if they change that making plumes random with no safe spots at all giving us more time to move before exploding the battle would be more dynamic and fun.

One thing that they could add to that battle is a skill that makes trash mobs to spawn, more like batraal fight, that would add a lot of difficulty to the fight and keep us worrying about more stuff at the same time.

Better the drop rates but make the fight harder.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Yet none of it was tedious, now was it?

All content can be easy with practice, but a lot of times people don't want to practice because of the tedium.

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The only answer is that you need all types of content (easy drop/quested, tedious grind, and challenging but rewarding), and a lot of it. Dynamis relics were not difficult, they just took time, money, or scamming the LS. They were still very good for the game and kept some playing with something to shoot for. Dynamis overall was fairly shallow though, just relic armors and currency for weapons, and shadow mantle and ring. For a better example you can look at Apollyon and Temenos. These let you upgrade your regular artifact to +1 (bringing something from the past back into relevancy is always nice), added plenty of useful accessories purchased by collecting ancient beastcoins, and the end goal was of course the boss fights for Homam and Nashira armor sets. It's not hard at all to target the correct areas for your artifact items and then just hope it drops, it's not hard to get 75 beastcoins eventually, and after a bit only far below average linkshells will wipe to Omega, but that's okay.

Final Fantasy XI was very, very tedious, even the majority of the fights were, and the major challenge to the game was making sure each person was fulfilling their role, not the roles themselves, but the content was robust and repeating it wasn't too much of a hassle, it usually spread its rewards out in a way to reward people who go back in at least some way (ancient beastcoins being bazaarable, currency/alexandrites being worth something is a nice boost while you're farming relic armor/DKP in dynamis or getting your salvage armor materials, sky triggers being bazaarable, etc.) To say that there is no room for tedium in a well designed game is pretty blind because when you can get the incentives and weight of effort correct it only adds to the longevity and depth of the game's content. The tedious things should be done along the way to the goal though, not the focus of it, and that's where XIV has failed so far. The content (if you call it that, I don't) we have now is shit, of course it is, with everything being made useless by each new patch and having to grind out a boss until luck favors you on a drop, but making the drop rates higher would only make you finish it faster. You need to make it deeper, not quicker.

No one would play FFXI for 8 years if the only boss fight was the Ifrit avatar battle either, we get that, Yoshida gets that, and he's working on it. I feel as though the content in XIV has been deflated, it just feels empty, and not specifically in the sense of challenge. It would probably sit easier on people's stomachs if the weapon drop rates were five or so percent better and the totems were used for other things as well, such as unique accessories or buff potions and good food, or unique synth materials that fighters could sell. It really just feels incomplete to any other event imaginable. Raids get solved in a week, that's normal. Fights get beaten in a day or two as well. The true test is things like maybe Crystal Tower, and the large, large style content overhauls that are comparable to Dynamis, Sea/Limbus, Abyssea. Ifrit is small fish, if it bugs you so much, quit playing for a bit. Won't be missing anything.

Also, to Nidhogg and Byakko being hard: lol

They were powerful, not hard. That's what happens when you design monsters for a game that is okay with you dying. FFXIV right now is stupid in the sense that it is designed for one tank 8-man parties, so it's never okay for the tank to be in peril, by design. Nidhogg didn't give a fuck about one tank, he had terror, mighty strikes, shadow wiping wing attacks, double attack, and god help you if you were in front of his mouth, and that's not even mentioning Spike Flail if you mess up the positioning or aggro. The same thing with byakko, paralyze, diaga, triple attack and fast speed. They were allowed to kill you because death was okay. They didn't jump away and dash around the arena being completely ineffective for 30 seconds while you recovered MP and healed the tank up.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Gath forgot to talk in 3rd person .. /sigh

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It's the first time in memory he hasn't sounded like a cave man.

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Originally Posted by electrikALIEN

It's the first time in memory he hasn't sounded like a cave man.

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Andvari thinks that you sound like a caveman!

Andvari's 3 gil is 3 times more than Gath's 1 gil

Let me get this straight, the game needs content now, and you're suggesting adding mobs that won't be killed for months? You know if that happened youd just be killing moogle and ifrit more lol.

Also, I think it's funny that people use XI mobs to cite difficulty but also complain about the drop system being tedious. No HNM in XI would have given me as many drops as the primals have, that's for sure. Hell, if I could even kill them to get drops. Not bc the mob was hard, because claiming it was. spending my weekends farming pop items in sky... not tedious at all.

Topics like this are just backdoor bragging.

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Originally Posted by Stufoo

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Well i think yoshi is waiting for 2.0 to add proper content, every content we are getting now is something that he can port easy to 2.0 (like instanced dungeon).

Good thread. I agree with OP 100% SE needs

To stop

Making cheap content...

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Originally Posted by IStolzI

Also, I think it's funny that people use XI mobs to cite difficulty but also complain about the drop system being tedious. No HNM in XI would have given me as many drops as the primals have, that's for sure. Hell, if I could even kill them to get drops. Not bc the mob was hard, because claiming it was. spending my weekends farming pop items in sky... not tedious at all.

Topics like this are just backdoor bragging.

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Sky was a load of fun, with a whole lot of strategy... to begin with. With the double nin tanking on byakko, to how and when to cast Kirin. Then there was even the Fenrir fight and stuff like that all the time. Here's the thing though, and the reason this whole thread is dumb... we had 0 of this when the level cap was 50! :shakeshead:

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Originally Posted by Stufoo

The tedious things should be done along the way to the goal though, not the focus of it, and that's where XIV has failed so far. The content (if you call it that, I don't) we have now is shit, of course it is, with everything being made useless by each new patch and having to grind out a boss until luck favors you on a drop, but making the drop rates higher would only make you finish it faster. You need to make it deeper, not quicker.

I feel as though the content in XIV has been deflated, it just feels empty, and not specifically in the sense of challenge.

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Hi Stu, Gath,

Some good thoughts in this thread.

I definitely agree that we need more *depth* to our current "Max Level Content."

I would rather Yoshida-san and his team design out an engaging *System* (with multiple incentives and goals) first, which could then inform the addition of Dungeons / Raids and Primals / Boss Fights (and tie them all together), even at the cost of, say, an additional standalone Battle, if it meant that we got a meaningful XIV equivalent of a SKY or Dynamis.

While Dynamis (early days) may have been a bit "shallow," it kept me interested and busy. I loved taking on Shadow Lord, or trying to get the Rare Currency Drops, working toward Relic Weapons, or trying to help my friends get their Attestations (of Might, Justice, etc.). Even after, say, 50 times of going through Dynamis, I was still engaged because there were goals to keep striving for and different paths / reasons, multiple NMs, etc.

Or SKY (Tulia) in a similar way, with multiple Trigger NMs / Byakko, Suzaku, Genbu, Seiryuu, Kirin, etc.

Even though we'd get brand new lands in 2.0, the *System* they design could be ported over without throwing away their work (i.e., the NMs / Goals / Drops) could all still move over 2.0 just fine.

If every patch up until 2.0 is only going to be a standalone (separate) "Primal of the Month"-type situation, where we spam entering and hoping to get their 7 drops, before rinsing and repeating on another new Primal / Dungeon with its drops, with no long term goals... I'd be pretty bummed out. :(

Here's to hoping we get something deeper and more meaningful before 2.0 hits. :)

Really good points here, as i said we need harder fights but if they could tie Primals with open dungeons like sky would be bad ass, and yes i dont like silver plated handed drops, the drop rate sucks but im fine with it, had me killing ifrit longer than i tought just to get my bow.

Synyster Blitz wonders why Gath makes useless threads about topics that have been discussed over and over and over again...

Does Gath not know we are getting 2 ( YES 2!!!!!) new dungeons in following week or two?? maybe Gath should keep his panties from knotting and hold your horses before making pointless topics..

Oh wait I know.. cause Gath is so awesome right? oh and his 1 Gil is worth more then all of ours.. ( only rebuttle Gath can fathom )

and again Gath.. your useless third person narrative again ruins your thread.. 75% of comments are people showing there dislike for you yet again... I know you're a TROLL but come on.. stop this shit already.. people are sick of it ..

Synyster Blitz 1 gil is worth the SAME as EVERYONE elses...

I believe the DEV said something like.. adding "Easy mode" and "Hard mode" for the primal fights later..
hopefully for dungeons too..

<imagination>

If people are rejecting a tank because he has no fire resistance gears, that will be at least a step closer to the "hard mode" in my imagination... (ie. Tank is going to die even with the best healer who keep on buffing, doesn't die themselves)

And of course.. 5% hp left after hellfire for 3 nails destroyed... with stoneskin + sang. rite + protect + sentinel..!!
(Ok tank maybe you can have 9% left but Ifrit can hit 8% of yours if the healers don't act instantly after hellfire damage)

</imagination>

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Originally Posted by PaperPrince

You're right, needs more Hwang Mi Hee.

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Is that her name? Awesome.

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Originally Posted by Gath

Because they were not hard. In any MMO figuring out a "main" boss from content is trial and error, but the sheer challenge is different from doing it multiple times.

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No one ever said Ifrit, Mog King, or the primals are "main" or endgame bosses. In fact, it seems they're there just for midgame for the Lv.99 cap XIV world.

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Ifrit was not hard, the animation lag was and that's not a real challenge, it is crappy programming.

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Since when was Ifrit supposed to be "hard"?

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Moogle was easy because it didn't revolve around the moogles using animation lag to their advantage.

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Since when was Mog King supposed to be "hard"?

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Pandy Warden in FFXI was hard, even though the two hour kill strategy was solid it still took an immense amount of skill of 18 different players.

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Pandy Warden was hardly "hard", it just took time to even fight him cause of the requirements.

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Absolute virtue was also hard, as well as Vrtra, Nid, Byakko, etc.

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Absolute Virtue was intended to be impossible to defeat until the XI community started raising hell about it. I do believe Vrtra was the only "truly hard" NM in the pre-Abyssea world, but since I never did ground HNMs, I couldn't say.

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Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

Synyster Blitz wonders why Gath makes useless threads about topics that have been discussed over and over and over again...

Does Gath not know we are getting 2 ( YES 2!!!!!) new dungeons in following week or two?? maybe Gath should keep his panties from knotting and hold your horses before making pointless topics..

Oh wait I know.. cause Gath is so awesome right? oh and his 1 Gil is worth more then all of ours.. ( only rebuttle Gath can fathom )

and again Gath.. your useless third person narrative again ruins your thread.. 75% of comments are people showing there dislike for you yet again... I know you're a TROLL but come on.. stop this shit already.. people are sick of it ..

Synyster Blitz 1 gil is worth the SAME as EVERYONE elses...

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Gath loves his fan, Synyster Blitz. Gath knows you are jelly of how wickedly awesome Gath is and how you cannot fathom the existence of Gath's 1 gil because it makes yours worthless, but trying to make fun of Gath in every turn? Gath thought you said you were out of High School in Gath's last thread.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than you're worth.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Is that her name? Awesome.



No one ever said Ifrit, Mog King, or the primals are "main" or endgame bosses. In fact, it seems they're there just for midgame for the Lv.99 cap XIV world.

Gath has always told himself and everybody that this is midgame. It does not take away from the fact that it is the current games endgame because you cannot go past 50 yet. Where there is a lvl increase then it will be endgame.

Since when was Ifrit supposed to be "hard"?

Since when did Gath call it hard?

Since when was Mog King supposed to be "hard"?

Again....

Pandy Warden was hardly "hard", it just took time to even fight him cause of the requirements.

Maybe Gath did step out of line calling him hard, Gath should have said getting to him was.

Absolute Virtue was intended to be impossible to defeat until the XI community started raising hell about it. I do believe Vrtra was the only "truly hard" NM in the pre-Abyssea world, but since I never did ground HNMs, I couldn't say.

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Which is something most games need, it adds a bit of fun.
Vrtra was Gaths favorite HNM.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

They need a long fight nm that takes a few hours
Yes, not everyone will be able to kill it! TOUGH LUCK!

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Originally Posted by Rokien

They need a long fight nm that takes a few hours
Yes, not everyone will be able to kill it! TOUGH LUCK!

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Takes a few hours but despawns after a certain period of time...like Pandy.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

Does Gath not know we are getting 2 ( YES 2!!!!!) new dungeons in following week or two??

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We could be getting a billion dungeons and if they're all easy they'd still suck, time will tell.

But like others have said before, this content is just filler. Easy enough for everyone to beat because making hardcore/casual content right now would take too much time I suppose, HOPEFULLY the plan is to increase the difficulty and skill level required to defeat dungeons/NMs with 2.0.

Hopefully :c

For someone who's accomplished so little you sure have a funny view of things, Gath.

For those of you who played FFXI; Remember the days when ZNM first came out, those NMs were all different, and required unique, interesting methods to kill which changed depending on the size of your party. All were low-mannable with good players, but could be tackled slightly more easily with a full alliance. This is the type of fights they need to be adding, not more of the stronghold NM-type fights (stand still and kill as fast as possible). Anyone who believes that the Moogle and Ifrit fights are less interesting than these is surely mistaken. Perhaps confused after doing them so many times over, and doing stronghold NMs far less often in comparison?

The Moogle and Ifrit fights are really well done when you think about it, they require complete knowledge of positioning and surroundings, and constant adjustments and reactions to events. What more do you want? Feel free to offer suggestions rather than saying "Oh they suck". The Ifrit fight in particular was a lot more fun before certain positions that made moving around and dodging attacks less common. To suggest an Ifrit in which people would not be safe ANYWHERE would surely piss off a lot of people, as I'd say at least 75% of players wouldn't be able to beat it. But hey, we can easy-mode it for those that complain, right?

I kinda went off on a rant there, following the comment concerning another of Gath's self-indulgent threads.. And before I forget about Darkhold, the aspect that made it interesting and unique was not only the fights that required some amount of strategy, but the openness of the reward system (i.e. being able to complete certain/all objectives for different chests containing different items).

So let me speak for the majority of people who like a challenge, don't constantly QQ on threads, and don't want the small majority ruling over the future content; Please make more fights like Ifrit, Moogle and Darkhold.

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Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat

There should be some fights that some people are never able to beat, and some gear that only the best of the best can get.

If people want to be casual that's cool, but should the entire game be scaled down to that sort of dedication level? Nop.

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you must define challenge as Absolute Virtue difficult, or perhaps Pandemonium warden before it's difficulty nerf.

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

For someone who's accomplished so little you sure have a funny view of things, Gath.

For those of you who played FFXI; Remember the days when ZNM first came out, those NMs were all different, and required unique, interesting methods to kill which changed depending on the size of your party. All were low-mannable with good players, but could be tackled slightly more easily with a full alliance. This is the type of fights they need to be adding, not more of the stronghold NM-type fights (stand still and kill as fast as possible). Anyone who believes that the Moogle and Ifrit fights are less interesting than these is surely mistaken. Perhaps confused after doing them so many times over, and doing stronghold NMs far less often in comparison?

The Moogle and Ifrit fights are really well done when you think about it, they require complete knowledge of positioning and surroundings, and constant adjustments and reactions to events. What more do you want? Feel free to offer suggestions rather than saying "Oh they suck". The Ifrit fight in particular was a lot more fun before certain positions that made moving around and dodging attacks less common. To suggest an Ifrit in which people would not be safe ANYWHERE would surely piss off a lot of people, as I'd say at least 75% of players wouldn't be able to beat it. But hey, we can easy-mode it for those that complain, right?

I kinda went off on a rant there, following the comment concerning another of Gath's self-indulgent threads.. And before I forget about Darkhold, the aspect that made it interesting and unique was not only the fights that required some amount of strategy, but the openness of the reward system (i.e. being able to complete certain/all objectives for different chests containing different items).

So let me speak for the majority of people who like a challenge, don't constantly QQ on threads, and don't want the small majority ruling over the future content; Please make more fights like Ifrit, Moogle and Darkhold.

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+1 this, poster has clearly done both fights, and can see thier merits. As for people complaining about the difficulty of the fights, it would certainly be amusing to see you do better, and I'm sure that someone will complain.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

you must define challenge as Absolute Virtue difficult, or perhaps Pandemonium warden before it's difficulty nerf.

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Bro I played XI but I never did any of those fights, so I'm not going to waste people's time by drawing connections to fights in games that I'm not completely familiar with.

What I can tell you, with absolute certainty, is that the current NMs/dungeons/what have you in XIV are easy. And ideally, in a game with all sorts of content to suit all needs, there would be content that only the most skilled would be able to complete.

FatHouseCat is right, as another person who is in a decent linkshell expecting a challenge, they can also see the necessity for difficult content.

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

For someone who's accomplished so little you sure have a funny view of things, Gath.

For those of you who played FFXI; Remember the days when ZNM first came out, those NMs were all different, and required unique, interesting methods to kill which changed depending on the size of your party. All were low-mannable with good players, but could be tackled slightly more easily with a full alliance. This is the type of fights they need to be adding, not more of the stronghold NM-type fights (stand still and kill as fast as possible). Anyone who believes that the Moogle and Ifrit fights are less interesting than these is surely mistaken. Perhaps confused after doing them so many times over, and doing stronghold NMs far less often in comparison?

The Moogle and Ifrit fights are really well done when you think about it, they require complete knowledge of positioning and surroundings, and constant adjustments and reactions to events. What more do you want? Feel free to offer suggestions rather than saying "Oh they suck". The Ifrit fight in particular was a lot more fun before certain positions that made moving around and dodging attacks less common. To suggest an Ifrit in which people would not be safe ANYWHERE would surely piss off a lot of people, as I'd say at least 75% of players wouldn't be able to beat it. But hey, we can easy-mode it for those that complain, right?

I kinda went off on a rant there, following the comment concerning another of Gath's self-indulgent threads.. And before I forget about Darkhold, the aspect that made it interesting and unique was not only the fights that required some amount of strategy, but the openness of the reward system (i.e. being able to complete certain/all objectives for different chests containing different items).

So let me speak for the majority of people who like a challenge, don't constantly QQ on threads, and don't want the small majority ruling over the future content; Please make more fights like Ifrit, Moogle and Darkhold.

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I agree as a Vet XI player Ifrit and Moogle is designed better than any boss XI ever had all of them was just tank and spank with no real strat. Throw DD's and cure's @ it.

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

So let me speak for the majority of people who like a challenge, don't constantly QQ on threads, and don't want the small majority ruling over the future content; Please make more fights like Ifrit, Moogle and Darkhold.

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If people want difficulty they won't want something like Ifrit and Moogle, I do agree on Darkhold, though, it had a lot more potential, maybe the new dungeons will surpass that.

Gath hates to bring it to you, but people dislike Ifrit and Moogle more than enjoy it. Though, the mechanics are a different thing, they are designed well for what we are working with on the server, the idea is awesome, it's just missing that pazazz

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Originally Posted by Gath

If people want difficulty they won't want something like Ifrit and Moogle, I do agree on Darkhold, though, it had a lot more potential, maybe the new dungeons will surpass that.

Gath hates to bring it to you, but people dislike Ifrit and Moogle more than enjoy it. Though, the mechanics are a different thing, they are designed well for what we are working with on the server, the idea is awesome, it's just missing that pazazz

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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I know they dislike it.. But the reason is not because the fight is designed poorly or is too easy, it's mostly because we're forced to do it >100x to get all the rewards.

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

I know they dislike it.. But the reason is not because the fight is designed poorly or is too easy, it's mostly because we're forced to do it >100x to get all the rewards.

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I don't mind doing a fight >100 times to get certain rewards, that just makes those rewards mean more when you finally get them.

I think the fights themselves are too easy, and that is why I dislike them. I might be a minority in that, but I know at least a handful of people who feel the same.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

I know they dislike it.. But the reason is not because the fight is designed poorly or is too easy, it's mostly because we're forced to do it >100x to get all the rewards.

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But have the items drop more often just shortens the life span of the content that a vast majority will be doing.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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Originally Posted by Gath

But have the items drop more often just shortens the life span of the content that a vast majority will be doing.

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Then what sort of solution to you recommend? How can you do the exact same thing over 100x and not find it boring? Eventually everything becomes a routine. I myself would agree with FatHouseCat in saying I'd rather do something 10x as difficult and only have to complete it 10x to get the rewards. The challenge would be in winning, not how many times you beat it.

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Originally Posted by Lumidus

More raids are coming and I remember darkhold was fun and challenging. IMO it still is. It has puzzles and obstacles along with a mini boss and a real boss. The loot system in there was best too. These boss fights feel more like BCNM

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Are we thinking of the same Darkhold?

Run past stuff,
kill a fish for a chest,
run past stuff,
hit a few circle things,
run past stuff,
*everything blurs togeather untill Ogre*
Kill miniboss while dodging ghosty death,
R U N P A S T S T U F F,
Hit the Garlean room if anyone needs it,
run past stuff,
*another blur*
Kill Batral.

On Ifrit: still haven't won, bad network latency prevents me from avoiding floor plumes 70% of the time unless I'm already running when they load under me.