Summoner and the upcoming changes

so i was hoping someone might make a comment on what i said in my initial post, as i thought it was a good idea/fix, but if anyone missed it, here is what i said:

Regarding Sustain, I’m aware it does not get tons of use, but is useful in certain situations. For me personally, it is excellent in Palace of the Dead when the party I am in had no tank, and I require some form of healing to keep Titan alive. Without Sustain, it makes the use of Titan much more limited than it already is. I am also not forgetting about my Scholar cousins, who also use Sustain to support their fairies. Here is what I propose as a potential fix. Since both Summoner & Scholar both share Physick, why not add the effect of Sustain to it to apply only when the spell Physick is cast upon a pet or make the potency of Physick doubled when healing a pet.

please give me any feedback on this idea

Did anybody at the media events ever bother to try using Physick as a Summoner? For all we know it could scale with int for us now, since Red Mages have their own similar heal now that scales off int, and they had to rework Arcanist skills for Scholars anyways. Losing Sustain won't be a big deal as long as we can use Physick with appropriate scaling.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

And yeah there seems to be a lot of misinformation out there right now, so people really need to reserve judgment until 16th.

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This, they could always bump up the potency on III's to 45 or even 50 closing the gap. Nothing is in stone yet.

There are so many threads on this I don't know where to post. :confused:

Anywho. While I'm willing to wait and see how most of the changes affect summoner as it compares to the other jobs, is anyone else concerned about one of the more punishing changes that came about from the new UI design?

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もうひとつ、立ち回りに影響が出そうな変更としては、エーテルフローの挙動だ。4.0からはエーテルフローとバハムートエーテルがひとつのUIで管理されるため、たとえばミアズマバーストやベインの“効果なし”によってバハムートエーテルが2までしか溜まらなかった場合、エーテルフローを使っても回復するのは1枠ぶんということになる。いわゆるエーテルフローの“空振り”のリスクが少し増えている。

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Taken from the recent Famitsu article talking about changes to summoner.

According to this, because both aetherflow and aethertrail are managed with the same UI widget, if for any reason a player whiffs bane or fester and only gains two aethertrail stacks, using aetherflow again will only grant the player one stack of aetherflow instead of three.

So basically if we whiff a Bane or Fester a target right after they go invulnerable, we get to spend the next two minutes with no Bahamut and our thumbs up our a$$es.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

There are so many threads on this I don't know where to post. :confused:

Anywho. While I'm willing to wait and see how most of the changes affect summoner as it compares to the other jobs, is anyone else concerned about one of the more punishing changes that came about from the new UI design?



Taken from the recent Famitsu article talking about changes to summoner.

According to this, because both aetherflow and aethertrail are managed with the same UI widget, if for any reason a player whiffs bane or fester and only gains two aethertrail stacks, using aetherflow again will only grant the player one stack of aetherflow instead of three.

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This is true. Aethertrail now takes the spot of an Aetherflow stack. Missing an Aetherflow skill is now more punishing than ever before. You can also use Aetherflow with 3 Aethertrail stacks, and it will give you nothing but the MP recovery and go on CD (Aetherflow is only locked from being used in DWT).

summoner have to know fight pretty well if you wanna use that 2 tri disaster rotatio every other minute because some mechanics can totally mess up that option. Your stacks can be delayed and the worst part is that you can not use aetherflow before you have used your bahamut stacks and full duration of dreadwyrm stance(if you dont cancel it instantly with deathflare).

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Originally Posted by Semmi

Did anybody at the media events ever bother to try using Physick as a Summoner? For all we know it could scale with int for us now, since Red Mages have their own similar heal now that scales off int, and they had to rework Arcanist skills for Scholars anyways. Losing Sustain won't be a big deal as long as we can use Physick with appropriate scaling.

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most of preview media who did smn, don't main smn so they overlook it, but i think physick will have more use in SB now since they drop subtain, and if you want to do any solo job you have to use it to cure you pet, unless titan somehow will be remake and have his own healing skill

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Originally Posted by Psycofang

People keep saying summoners dot damage got hurt by 30% because of 1 missing dot but thats not entirely correct at all.

Bio 40 pot 18s 1 tick of damager per 3s

18÷3 is 6 40x 6 ticks is 240total potency

Miasma is 35 potency and 24s. 24÷3 is 8

35 *8 = 280 potency

Bio 2 is 40p for 30s so 40*10s = 400

240+280+400= 920

New 2 dots total to 800 potency total which is 86.9 or 87% of the total potency of old dots. Its a 13% loss which is HEAVILY combatted by :

Tri disasters ruin buff

DTs damage buff

Bahamuts double enkindles

Pet actions reduce enkindle by -10s recast per said action

Ruin 3 can upgrade to ruin 4 through pet actions.

Your aoe got nerfed to a degree which im positive is a mis trans and its probably capping at 40% DR.


TL;DR- you do equivalent if not MORE damage now.

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Thank you!

Just some quality of life changes for 4.0 that I would like to see for Egi.

*Since Sustain was remove could you add an additional effect onto Physick that would help heals our pets. Example: Additional Effect: Continuously restores 8% of summon's HP for 10s.

*Consider lowering the cast timer of Summon 1, 2, and 3 to 2.5 seconds

*Increasing the range of Radiant Shields to 30 Yalms. Reasoning being is it seems like when we fight Super Sized Monster, Nidhogg, the tank is just out off range and doesn't gain the buff.

*Add a provoke additional effect to Summon 2 to get enmity quickly.

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

Hai Hai to the rescue to talk people off the ledge lol. Great initial write-up though.

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While it is a decent write up, individuals should approach it with a grain of salt. The document had a lot of errors initially and showed that Hai Hai was going based tool tips and not checking videos such as Mr. Happy's to see in action. Hai Hai did review comments and correct any info which was deemed inaccurate, a good point on Hai Hai, but if I recall, Hai Hai has not main SMN since early 3.X days. Even Hai Hai's SMN guide at a certain point was deemed inaccurate and replaced with a more relevant guide. Either way, we have to wait until June 16th/20th to see all changes and how it affects the job.

I am curious as to why Tri-bind still exist. Maybe in PVP, but in PVE it is useless. Perhaps make it only available in PVP. It's high MPcost and low potency doesn't appear to make it worthy of use in PVE unless it is SE way of saying bind will be critical.

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Originally Posted by Samael_D

I am curious as to why Tri-bind still exist. Maybe in PVP, but in PVE it is useless. Perhaps make it only available in PVP. It's high MPcost and low potency doesn't appear to make it worthy of use in PVE unless it is SE way of saying bind will be critical.

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Considering PvP gets their own entire skillsets, it's actually for PvE only.. a lot of changes suggest CC might be making a return in stormblood, which I think is a good thing.
Before CC wasn't used much for balance reasons, not all jobs had access to them, but now:
- All casters and healers have a heavy
- All casters and ranged dps have a bind
- All tanks and physical dps have stun and silence
This means that all comps have some CC that can be used, and all standard 8man comps (consisting of at least 1 caster, 1 ranged and 1 melee dps) have access to all forms of CC, so SE can now design mechanics that require CC to do properly.

I'll just say that despite the aoe nerfs for the earlier level content (bane especially), SMN will still be very viable in pretty much everything else.

As far as AOE is concerned, Painflare and Deathflare don't have potency reductions. Those were major contributors to SMN's overall AOE damage output.

With Bahamut's powers (Akh Morn too), I'd say the damage is still solid.

Of course SMN still has mobility, Devotion, and a combat res.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

AOEs were nerfed because YoshiP doesn't want people pulling huge pack of mobs in dungeons.

As long as people stick to pulling ~4 enemies at a time, bane will still do good damage. In leveling dungeons, people really shouldn't be doing massive pulls unless you're not level synced.

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When did he say this? If that's the case i don't really mind, I don't really like speed running.

Not only from a gameplay perspective is spamming Ruin lame, but from a visual perspective, it's got all the oomph of tossing a pebble at our enemies.

Ruin IV isn't much more impactful, especially when you look at what other casters are churning out. And then they have the nerve to recycle the spell effect of Ahk Morn as being both Deathflare and Demi Bahamut's enkindle.

I can understand people ragging on the regular ruin 1 and 2 which are boring, but that's petty just like regular fires are boring, but Ruin III/IV are visually stunning both graphically and animation-wise.

From a spell standpoint, I don't think Smns can really complain. Yeah blm uses lots of explosions, but that's literally all they do, it's the same spell casting animation the same raising hands to the air for the big ones, never changes. SMN literally floats into the air as if being dragged, and then launches again in the air as he uses deathflare which is arguably if not the most satisfying ability to use as a caster. It's also literally the biggest spell of all the casters, you can see the dang thing all the way in the heavens lol. The only other spell with an animation that lifts the caster off the ground is holy. Then on top of that you get the most graphically impressive and biggest resource hogging spell in the game; Bahamut.

So SMNs can't complain about not being sexy.

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Originally Posted by Len

Not only from a gameplay perspective is spamming Ruin lame, but from a visual perspective, it's got all the oomph of tossing a pebble at our enemies.

Ruin IV isn't much more impactful, especially when you look at what other casters are churning out. And then they have the nerve to recycle the spell effect of Ahk Morn as being both Deathflare and Demi Bahamut's enkindle.

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I do agree about Ahk morn, it should be different, at the very least a different color, but then again it makes sense lore-wise for it to be the same. If anyone listened to the story during the SMN questline, they are literally able to invoke the very abilities of the primals, when SMN uses deathflare, that is in essence drawing from Bahamuts power, it's not some sort of smn specific skill he is using Bahamuts power not a counterfeit version, so it makes sense that it would look the same.

BRING BACK SUSTAIN!
T______T
honestly though, group content aside - tanking stuff with Titan, while healing him with sustain in order to clear solo-content has been one of summoners redeeming points.
a one man tank,healer and DPS = NO MORE :(
what is the point of even keeping the titan pet if you can't heal it?
:mad:

Did the pets atleast get an increase in health or damage resistance, because yeah I can see how the pets dying would be a problem especially ifrit. He was dying repeatedly on mobs in ST when I didn't use sustain, and no healer is going to take priority from actual players.

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Originally Posted by Vallhallix

Did the pets atleast get an increase in health or damage resistance, because yeah I can see how the pets dying would be a problem especially ifrit. He was dying repeatedly on mobs in ST when I didn't use sustain, and no healer is going to take priority from actual players.

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Sadly not, at least as far as I know. :(
We will have to wait and see, since currently known details are still subjected to change.
All pet keeping classes in all respectable MMORPG games have a skill to keep their pets alive, is this where final fantasy really wants to be different?

If we raise enough awareness of this issue they may review it with the developers (like the WHM thread), but no one seems to care about such a major skill being erased like its nothing!

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Originally Posted by Vallhallix

Did the pets atleast get an increase in health or damage resistance, because yeah I can see how the pets dying would be a problem especially ifrit. He was dying repeatedly on mobs in ST when I didn't use sustain, and no healer is going to take priority from actual players.

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The problem with other people's pets is that they don't appear in healer party lists. We see our own pets, and we even see their chocobos when that's an issue, but we never see your Garuda on our list of HP meters.

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Originally Posted by Psycofang

People keep saying summoners dot damage got hurt by 30% because of 1 missing dot but thats not entirely correct at all.

Bio 40 pot 18s 1 tick of damager per 3s
18÷3 is 6 40x 6 ticks is 240total potency

Miasma is 35 potency and 24s. 24÷3 is 8

35 *8 = 280 potency

Bio 2 is 40p for 30s so 40*10s = 400

240+280+400= 920

New 2 dots total to 800 potency total which is 86.9 or 87% of the total potency of old dots. Its a 13% loss which is HEAVILY combatted by :

Tri disasters ruin buff

DTs damage buff

Bahamuts double enkindles

Pet actions reduce enkindle by -10s recast per said action

Ruin 3 can upgrade to ruin 4 through pet actions.

Your aoe got nerfed to a degree which im positive is a mis trans and its probably capping at 40% DR.


TL;DR- you do equivalent if not MORE damage now.

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Actually thats totally incorrect...

Prior we'd be able to stack all of those DoTs... the nerf means we only stack 2 of them. That's a 30% hit in DPS... more if we assume they could be stacked with Bio3 and the new Miasma upgrade... BUT we DO know how much it will hurt us currently...

240 + 280 + 400 = 920 Current
280 + 400 = 680 Post Nerf

For the record its actually

110 per tick currently (non nerfed)
70 per tick post nerf

SO about a 30% or more DPS hit...

YOU were comparing Bio 3 and Miasma 3 to Bio 2 and Miasma ONLY... without including a 3rd stacked DoT. Under the current system we'd be able to stack them all

Tri-Disaster's Ruin buff is unknown, but assumed only 10%....

But Ruin 3 just got mega nerfed... so we're at 150 potency... 165 under Ruination going by that... when it USED to be 200 potency. That's a 25% DPS hit no matter how you look at it...

Pet Actions Reducing Enkindle by -10 seconds? You do realize Enkindle is a 3 minute recast timer right? Do you have any idea how many pet actions would be needed for that to make any real difference?.... and more importantly what do they define as a "Pet Action"?

Ruin 3 is now at 150 Potency... so we're NERFed until we even GET Ruin 4... then once we do get it... according to the information there's only a 15% chance it will proc...

To make up for the damage loss in Ruin 3 ALONE it would have to proc at least 80% of the time... No way in hell it does that. So basically we're stuck back at NERFED level 54 Summoner damage... with only a 15% chance to even get to level 70 Summoner damage.

No this is definitely a major nerf.

There's no positives in here...

We got locked at level 60... with the only exception being Bahamut... which is only usable for 20 seconds... after 3 rounds of Aetherflow at 1 minute a pop.

You can spin it all you want... but this is a major nerf... 30% or more single target dps hit... and a good 60% or more AoE hit.

You better hope these tooltips are MAJOR errors or we're hosed.

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Originally Posted by Vallhallix

I do agree about Ahk morn, it should be different, at the very least a different color, but then again it makes sense lore-wise for it to be the same. If anyone listened to the story during the SMN questline, they are literally able to invoke the very abilities of the primals, when SMN uses deathflare, that is in essence drawing from Bahamuts power, it's not some sort of smn specific skill he is using Bahamuts power not a counterfeit version, so it makes sense that it would look the same.

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..Now come up with an excuse as to why Demi-Bahamut's "Shockwave" is practically non-existant. He basically blows a snot bubble at the enemy and kicks up a little dust. Blink and you'll miss it.

THAT is the grand reward for something you'll only be able to bring out every two minutes?! It's garbage.

Weaving shockwave/aerial slash is a dps increase since they're oGCD. Now the question is will they trigger Ruin IV?

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Originally Posted by Len

..Now come up with an excuse as to why Demi-Bahamut's "Shockwave" is practically non-existant. He basically blows a snot bubble at the enemy and kicks up a little dust. Blink and you'll miss it.

THAT is the grand reward for something you'll only be able to bring out every two minutes?! It's garbage.

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For one it's a shockwave. It's an ability that's spammed, do you really believe some massive constant super blast would be a good thing on top of the fact that SMNs will already have literally the biggest thing on the battlefield for a full 20s. Judging from the video with the miqote Bahamut was massive compared to her size. I'm sure, performance issues are a big part of every design choice they make.

On the subject of shockwave, is shockwave single target or does it actually effect multiple targets?

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Originally Posted by Len

..Now come up with an excuse as to why Demi-Bahamut's "Shockwave" is practically non-existant. He basically blows a snot bubble at the enemy and kicks up a little dust. Blink and you'll miss it.

THAT is the grand reward for something you'll only be able to bring out every two minutes?! It's garbage.

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We get Bahamut out. Bahamut will probably be bigger than most bosses. Bahamut does two Akh Morn.
Seriously, I can guarantee that some people will miss AoE and stuff because Bahamut will take half their screen, and then will blame it on the SMN.

We don't need more visual stuff. We ARE the embodiment of a Sound and Light Show.

... Okay, maybe BLM is first, but we are close second.

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Originally Posted by Len

..Now come up with an excuse as to why Demi-Bahamut's "Shockwave" is practically non-existant. He basically blows a snot bubble at the enemy and kicks up a little dust. Blink and you'll miss it.

THAT is the grand reward for something you'll only be able to bring out every two minutes?! It's garbage.

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Just to correct you, the snot bubble thing was Tri-Disaster not Shockwave

Bahamut's Shockwave is the same animation Bahamut Prime used to auto-attack in T13, fyi.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

We get Bahamut out. Bahamut will probably be bigger than most bosses. Bahamut does two Akh Morn.
Seriously, I can guarantee that some people will miss AoE and stuff because Bahamut will take half their screen, and then will blame it on the SMN.

We don't need more visual stuff. We ARE the embodiment of a Sound and Light Show.

... Okay, maybe BLM is first, but we are close second.

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Honestly I think that is the way this will really play out

And I think the devs were the ones who decide on this direction... not the players who actually play it.

In the end they are going to end up wasting our time, and their time shoving this whole rework abortion. I don't think the people who actually played this job thought there was anything wrong with it the way it was, but I bet they will now.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

-snip-

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You're so negative in every posts of yours.
I actually find the "BUT BAHAMUT WAS IN MY FIELD OF VIEW, SO I COULDN'T SEE THE GROUND AOE FFS!" a pretty hilarious situation.

But whatever people say you're already convinced that SMN is dead.
Whatever man, time to change your main or something.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

You're so negative in every posts of yours.
I actually find the "BUT BAHAMUT WAS IN MY FIELD OF VIEW, SO I COULDN'T SEE THE GROUND AOE FFS!" a pretty hilarious situation.

But whatever people say you're already convinced that SMN is dead.
Whatever man, time change your main or something.

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SMN has literally died every patch it seems haha. Then a few weeks after a patch drops ''NERF SUMMONER'', ''HOW COME SMNS ARE DOING MORE DAMAGE THAN ME DID THEY NERF BLM''.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

Bahamut's Shockwave is the same animation Bahamut Prime used to auto-attack in T13, fyi.

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..So further lazy animation recycling?

Our level 3 limit break Teraflare, Deathflare, Demi-Bahamut, Demi Bahamut's Enkindle are all hand-me-downs. I hope by 5.0 they've run out of things to recycle and actually get creative for once.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Just to correct you, the snot bubble thing was Tri-Disaster not Shockwave

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I play Summoner. I know what Tri-Disaster is. This is what I'm referring to: Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood Summoner Gameplay

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Originally Posted by Len

I play Summoner. I know what Tri-Disaster is. This is what I'm referring to: Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood Summoner Gameplay

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That's fine but I'm telling that bubbly stuff isn't Bahamut. At best it's bio III: https://youtu.be/fSdfPXFGuw0?t=6m17s But seriously what do you want? A demi Bahamut makeover that would look more like Garuda Egi? The community, including you, has been asking for bigger better looking pets since 2.0 and now we have one. I can admit they could have chosen another skill since we have deathflare but I understand that Akh Morn was the OMG ability Bahamut Primal has. What would you rather see instead of Shockwave and Akh Morn?

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

That's fine but I'm telling that bubbly stuff isn't Bahamut. At best it's bio III: https://youtu.be/fSdfPXFGuw0?t=6m17s

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Yeah, I was referring to the white flash that Bahamut lets out. It literally looks like he sneezes every time we cast a spell. ..Oh, behold the might of Bahamut. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

But seriously what do you want?

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Surprise me! Add embellishments to what already existed. Change the colors. DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN COPY AND PASTE. Everything we get in Stormblood save for our DoT spells and Ruin is something we've seen already from past expansions.

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Originally Posted by Len

Not only from a gameplay perspective is spamming Ruin lame, but from a visual perspective, it's got all the oomph of tossing a pebble at our enemies..

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This ^ I hate how Ruin looks ,its so boring. To have to use that a majority of the time is underwhelming. Though they get a lot of nice burst AOE moves with Death Flare and Bahamut. I'd just like a flashier move besides Ruin. :P

I haven't heard any of the top SMNs (people who actually raid with them and know the ins and outs of the class) expressing concern about the class.

I will wait until SB to formulate a proper opinion on the state of the job.

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Originally Posted by AristocraticCorgi

I haven't heard any of the top SMNs (people who actually raid with them and know the ins and outs of the class) expressing concern about the class.

I will wait until SB to formulate a proper opinion on the state of the job.

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Hai Hai did. He basically said SMN will be fine:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Ly3yO2N9A/edit

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

Hai Hai did. He basically said SMN will be fine:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Ly3yO2N9A/edit

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Adding to this. Yoshi P said recently that the build Mr. Happy and company played with was a month old build. I'm sure they have had time to adjust many, many things before and after we got to know about these changes.

Well in case people didn't know, this is what Ruin IV looks like: https://youtu.be/3_JxY2pRHn4?t=1m24s https://youtu.be/fSdfPXFGuw0?t=6m40s

Also there is a very minor variation between Deathflare and Akh Morn but not the huge: Deathflare Ahk Morn

My point as Summoners and a pet job, yes we are a pet job, our OMG spell is Demi-Bahamut much like PLD got Passage of Arms, AST got Earthly Star, and so on. Now i won't be opposed to changing Ahk Morn to something like Teraflare or something along those lines but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Over all I'm still happy with the design path in 4.0 compared to my complete dissatisfaction with 3.0 design path. Minor tweaks here in there but happy.

I dont know if anyone realizes but it was confirmed that the build that was previewed was from late April and many changes since have been made.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...lily_with_100/

I am taking all of this with a grain of salt..lol. I think Summoner will be fine.