PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Remember, Taika. The devs apparently only scale the enmity combo for tank DPS when adjusting boss statistics. I guess it's perfectly acceptable for Warriors to spam their Butcher's Block combo and nothing else.

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Please see Tales from the Duty Finder thread to see how well THAT went.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Remember, Taika. The devs apparently only scale the enmity combo for tank DPS when adjusting boss statistics. I guess it's perfectly acceptable for Warriors to spam their Butcher's Block combo and nothing else.

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There's a difference between a game mechanic requirement, and something being socially acceptable.

Being as useful as a tree in a dungeon run while the rest of the party is doing its best is not acceptable in regard to other people.

Am I the only one who thinks removing stance dancing will take out the one interesting aspect to healer dps? Honestly this change feels shortsighted. Rather than actually fix the issues with healer game play they have just moved healers closer to being dps without adding any actual mechanics to healer dps. They are slowly becoming more a stripped down hybrid dps than an actual healer role.

I have a bad feeling they dropped the ball on healers this time round which is disappointing. They look like they have fallen into the exact same balance trap with WHM as they did in HW and we will end up with the same balance issues.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

There's a difference between a game mechanic requirement, and something being socially acceptable.

Being as useful as a tree in a dungeon run while the rest of the party is doing its best is not acceptable in regard to other people.

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They chose the role they wanted to play in that duty, so they shouldn't scrutinize the others unless their performance is really bad.
Besides, healers shouldn't be to be blamed at when the dungeons/trials don't offer a acceptable challenge for them and they look like they don't have anything to do.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

Please see Tales from the Duty Finder thread to see how well THAT went.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

There's a difference between a game mechanic requirement, and something being socially acceptable.

Being as useful as a tree in a dungeon run while the rest of the party is doing its best is not acceptable in regard to other people.

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... I was being facetious. :p

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

This makes you the toxic player. You aren't inexperienced or new, you're just stubbornly refusing to contributing and prefer to stand around doing nothing. Healers don't have "two jobs," they are hybrids. No other job can get away with literally doing nothing. Would you be okay with a Paladin who only spams Flash or a Dragoon who doesn't feel like using Blood of the Dragoon?

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Agreed and willing to kick.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

... I was being facetious. :p

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I know but made for a funny story in that thread

Healers who refuse to dps on some kind of silly irrational sense of principle make me facedesk 😑😣😕

I really don't get this argument. healer's shouldn't have to dps. if it's to make or break a dps check... something's wrong. if they have nothing to do tank and dps are topped off sure... do a little dmg. if it makes the dng faster ok... boss dies faster... ok.... I'm dpsing and i'm all out of mana to heal... *blink blink* say what now? both sides are right... I've played every role... I've seen runs that makes me wonder... the hell is everyone doing? dps spam... now i have less then 20% mp and now i have to heal spam... NOT ENOUGH MP CAPTAIN..... that's the the whole point that some of these people are trying to say.. some can't juggle, i've died as a tank because a healer is to focused on dpsing.. to the point they don't have the mp to heal me... So you lot can dps as a healer... you know how to juggle your usage of mp to adequately manage dealing dmg versus healing... good for you.... how low do you let your tanks health go again before you balk and forget cleric's stance is on? Yes I know it's getting changed in SB. but the fact remains... Tunnel vision is a problem. i'd rather have a healer who's more focused on healing then one who forgets the rest of the party is there and causes a wipe.

Personally I am glad for this change but simply because I hated trying to heal in a panic and realize I was in CS or it toggled back on from double clicking it, or adding in DPS but forgot to turn CS on. Least now I can fight with less worry and I would hope some people will be willing to throw some help in as well cus I am going to be all for kicking those who refuse now, even if all they are doing is dotting up enemies, would be better than nothing.

I have Cleric's stance on hotbar swap macros just so I don't have to worry about leaving it on accidentally through double clicking. There are only 2 points where I won't dps during a run:

1. I'm new to the instance and not comfortable with the pulls (I may throw out DPS if I notice a lull in damage taken, but I'd like to be prep'd for whatever will happen)
2. If the tank pulls half the stupid dungeon because speedruns are fun lulz, I'm too busy spending my MP keeping your HP above 10% because I'm probably under geared darnit!

:3 These changes make me happy, I feel I'll be able to comfortably DPS in instances without worry of random tank buster randomly tank busting something.

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Originally Posted by Misurugi

I really don't get this argument. healer's shouldn't have to dps. if it's to make or break a dps check... something's wrong. if they have nothing to do tank and dps are topped off sure... do a little dmg. if it makes the dng faster ok... boss dies faster... ok.... I'm dpsing and i'm all out of mana to heal...

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Then you're doing it wrong unfortunately.

Mindlessly mashing holy until you're oom isn't any better than standing there doing nothing but a regen every 20 seconds. If the group's DPS is low and stuff is taking a while to die then you're likely better off doing your damage via Aero III into Aero II multi dotting with a couple of holys mixed in more for the stun than anything else. It's perfectly possible to do very respectable aoe DPS as a WHM but frankly, even as a die hard WHM/AST main, I do all my roulettes as SCH for the efficient nigh endless aoe potential, it's just the better job for this task.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I still WONT dps when I play as HEALER in dungeons groups!

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And I'm glad that being a career healer means I'll likely never have to sit there and stomach your entitled attitude. I'll never push a fellow healer into DPSing if they are still uncomfortable with the encounter, but I have no time for those that are absolutely unwilling to roll their sleeves up and put in some effort irregardless of the situation at hand.

And personally I absolutely love these changes, I'm a very cautious healer in progression content and this will let me safely contribute much more consistent dot damage whilst still keeping my cautious play style intact.

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Originally Posted by Misurugi

ok.... I'm dpsing and i'm all out of mana to heal...

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Remember when that AST Solo healed A12S? He still had time to DPS during the encounter and had the mana to finish the fight. Now I'm not saying you're expected to be as good as that player, but it is food for thought on how much you're overhealing if basic encounters in this game are running your mana closer to the dry end without DPSing.

People in this topic: "I want to change the play style of my party members just as soon as I meet them, which will only serve to reduce our chances of succeeding in the duty as they were already skilled enough to accomplish the objective."

I enjoy when my healer feels comfortable enough to dps some, and I also enjoy when my healer makes me feel secure in focusing on keeping me alive. I never tell healers to chip on damage especially if they're not used to it, as what will likely end up happening is I'll end up dead and the party will wipe.

This change to cleric stance alleviates the concern, but I myself will still not force the change.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

And I'm glad that being a career healer means I'll likely never have to sit there and stomach your entitled attitude.

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People like Asahina make me really glad I have a pocket SCH.

Don't worry, I'll be throwing out my Aeros, Stones, Holies, and Assizes. (The upcoming changes have me soooo excited!)

Just be sure to take a look at my MP if I'm "not doing anything." I could be conserving MP or regenerating it. That's part of the healer's job too. Maybe not as much as in WoW but we still have to do it. :D

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

Remember when that AST Solo healed A12S? He still had time to DPS during the encounter and had the mana to finish the fight. Now I'm not saying you're expected to be as good as that player, but it is food for thought on how much you're overhealing if basic encounters in this game are running your mana closer to the dry end without DPSing.

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I think you just highlighted that the game mechanics for healing is broken. If a healer can solo heal A12S and still be dpsing then clearly there isn't enough healing mechanics in the game to support the game play properly.

I dps when I heal. Its boring not to. I do however have a concern that healers are moving more and more towards being support dps. At that point it begs the question why even have healers if they are just becoming support dps with extremely simplified rotations? The whole point of having a healer role is to offer an alternate type of gameplay.

Not dpsing as a healer at all is pretty wasteful but there is a point to be had when a player says they play a healer to heal. If that type of gameplay isn't being supported then the devs are falling short of the goal.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I think you just highlighted that the game mechanics for healing is broken. If a healer can solo heal A12S and still be dpsing then clearly there isn't enough healing mechanics in the game to support the game play properly.

I dps when I heal. Its boring not to. I do however have a concern that healers are moving more and more towards being support dps. At that point it begs the question why even have healers if they are just becoming support dps with extremely simplified rotations? The whole point of having a healer role is to offer an alternate type of gameplay.

Not dpsing as a healer at all is pretty wasteful but there is a point to be had when a player says they play a healer to heal. If that type of gameplay isn't being supported then the devs are falling short of the goal.

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Well said! I know I specifically chose a conjuror as my first class because I wanted to heal. While now I'm several other jobs, I still have that desire to heal and I want content that let's me do that. Us healers should never be downgraded to support/second string damage dealers.

I'm in the camp that healers absolutely should add their DPS. How hard is it throw a dot? That said, I'm not an especially good healer and every time I throw out some dps, I worry that it was during a time I should have been healing someone. And that's why I never play healer.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

I'm in the camp that healers absolutely should add their DPS. How hard is it throw a dot? That said, I'm not an especially good healer and every time I throw out some dps, I worry that it was during a time I should have been healing someone. And that's why I never play healer.

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It's a bit hard to explain, but : There is nothing rewarding for them to do that. You can clear the dungeon maybe a bit faster, yes, but the spells themselves don't have the weight of 'that should hit those guys'.
Some other game feature debuffs that do really affect the enemy in a meaningful way, like attack speed slows, defense debuffs, or something in that direction that they can apply and possibly not have a diminishing return when spammed.
However, SE holds themselves really back with giving stronger debuffs to player, so maybe they should ease up a bit and give the healers something else on their spells than just 'Heavy' and 'Malady', which is close to useless in PvE group content.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

It's a bit hard to explain, but : There is nothing rewarding for them to do that. You can clear the dungeon maybe a bit faster, yes, but the spells themselves don't have the weight of 'that should hit those guys'.

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At the end of the day isn't that why Tanks/Healers and DPS do damage? You don't need fancy secondary ailments to have weight to damage.

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Originally Posted by Misurugi

I really don't get this argument. healer's shouldn't have to dps. if it's to make or break a dps check... something's wrong. if they have nothing to do tank and dps are topped off sure... do a little dmg. if it makes the dng faster ok... boss dies faster... ok.... I'm dpsing and i'm all out ofmana to heal... *blink blink* say what now? both sides are right... I've played every role... I've seen runs that makes me wonder... the hell is everyone doing? dps spam... now i have less then 20% mp and now i have to heal spam... NOT ENOUGH MP CAPTAIN..... that's the the whole point that some of these people are trying to say.. some can't juggle, i've died as a tank because a healer is to focused on dpsing.. to the point they don't have the mp to heal me... So you lot can dps as a healer... you know how to juggle your usage of mp to adequately manage dealing dmg versus healing... good for you.... how low do you let your tanks health go again before you balk and forget cleric's stance is on? Yes I know it's getting changed in SB. but the fact remains... Tunnel vision is a problem. i'd rather have a healer who's more focused on healing then one who forgets the rest of the party is there and causes a wipe.

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This is a problem with people that can't get a full picture and tell people what is wrong. If a healer is running out of mp, it is a HIGH CHANCE there is a DPS problem. A good example was last week when my friend took whm to expert. Every pull she OOM, and she knew it was because the brd was very bad. (wide volley spam, no dot spread, so on) So after OOM on the first boss she said ballad me, and spamed holy(trash ofc) and such more to make up for the brd's lack of DPS.

If a healer is running out of MP it can be for the following reasons:
Tank is bad/ undergeared/ ilevel bypassing/ not using CDS/ standing in too much bad
DPS are not doing enough damage/ilevel bypassing/ using wrong rotations/ not using buffs/improper secondaries
Healer overhealing/ healer overdpsing (holy overlaping stuns can be an issue, if you do not space it out so monsters have the full stun effect, then people take more damage then need be)

A good healer should be able point out those problems, work out a solution, or back off on dps.

Healers need to DPS if you are trying world first, other then that no they do not need to, but I will find it insulting just to stand there doing a single action 20 sec-1 min. I done A1S farming as a solo healer where cleminty here and there and selene was the only healing going on.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I think you just highlighted that the game mechanics for healing is broken. If a healer can solo heal A12S and still be dpsing then clearly there isn't enough healing mechanics in the game to support the game play properly.

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I want to highlight this. This right here is the main issue with the problem. There isn't enough going on in a instance that makes a healer be a healer. They are just a DPS with support utility.

Until the core mechanics to encounters change, that is all "healers" are going to be. I find it sad that tanks can pretty much sit there getting beat on by a boss out of it's tank stance and a regen and fairy heal is all that is needed to keep them topped off until a tank buster. Or stand in the middle of an entire sections worth of monsters out of tank stance with just a couple of light HoT's/Fairy and some defensive CDs.

I DPS when I heal as well. Because there is literally nothing else to do. It is wasteful to just stand around. I honestly don't like it. I would prefer to have more challenge to healing that would require me to pay more attention to actually healing.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

It's a bit hard to explain, but : There is nothing rewarding for them to do that. You can clear the dungeon maybe a bit faster, yes, but the spells themselves don't have the weight of 'that should hit those guys'.

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Just because you've never seen a good dps healer or fail to do so yourself doesnt make your statement true.

My highest parse in Baelsar's wall was 1800ish overall dmg as a WHM...
And my SCH friend can pull similarly high numbers. AST may be a bit lower there but will still manage to dish out a significant amount.

the average random dps you get usually manage to deliver 1200-1800.
A real nice DPS will do 2500-2800ish.


Healer DPS is extremely rewarding and when done properly (it's +1 dps,do the math), will speed up your run by a lot.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

It's a bit hard to explain, but : There is nothing rewarding for them to do that.

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This is completly false.
Zurvan may now be a meme, but it's still one of the best example of why Healer's DPS is important: skipping Soar drastically increase the success rate of the run. And skipping that mechanic is quite hard to do when healers aren't DPSing. Besides, during P1, there's absolutly nothing to heal if the other party members don't stand in poop. Absolutly. Nothing.

Zurvan isn't the only fight where this is happening. In fact, pretty much all fights become harder the longer they are. So, in short, if you just stand there, doing nothing while everyone is doing their best, you are actually making the fight harder, and increase the chances of not beating it.

This is the reward: higher chances of success.

Besides, if you can't understand that healers, in this game, are not designed to simply be Cure bots, then it's time to stop playing healers, because you drag everyone down.
Or just quit the game entirely, I don't think we'll miss people with that lazy, entitled, and egoistic mentality.

If the players who watched the Live Letter and want kick Healers that don't DPS, they heard what Yoshi P said. He said if a healer don't want to DPS is ok. And it is not the first time he said it. So, please, stop with this. Heal DPS is a option, not a obligation, and that won't change on Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

If the players who watched the Live Letter and want kick Healers that don't DPS, they heard what Yoshi P said. He said if a healer don't want to DPS is ok. And it is not the first time he said it. So, please, stop with this. Heal DPS is a option, not a obligation, and that won't change on Stormblood.

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It depends on the situation...
If a healer is needing to heal frequently because 2-3 people are bad then there is nothing that can be done (esp if they ignore advice)
If a healer is not dpsing because of some old mindset healers should not have to dps because they are a healer and casting 1 spell a minute, yes they are getting kicked (after they keep doing that when asked to chip in ofc) Do you see a tank hitting flash once a minute? do you see DPS hitting one button a minute?

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Originally Posted by Arrius

It's a bit hard to explain, but : There is nothing rewarding for them to do that. You can clear the dungeon maybe a bit faster, yes, but the spells themselves don't have the weight of 'that should hit those guys'.
*snippers*

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Arrius, I feel you are downplaying the contribution you are making when you cast a damage spell. Perhaps it's because you see damage dealers doing more damage with their abilities.

However, what you call "clearing the dungeon a bit faster" is in fact, a means of insuring mobs are doing less damage to your party. Those Aeros add up to a whole lot less healing you have to do. :)

DPSing as a healer is optional, but if no one is taking damage for 5-10 seconds, why not toss out a few DPS spells? It's not like you have to worry about healing in Cleric Stance any more. Heck, a Holy amongst trash mobs in a massive pull is REALLY good and gives both Healers and Tanks a 5-3-1 second break.
Take Dun Scaith's final boss. There's an entire phase of no damage happening. Perfect place for a healer to DPS... and I have seen Healers just stand around and do nothing (sometimes healing when no one needs it because no one is taking any damage. y u do dis).

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

At the end of the day isn't that why Tanks/Healers and DPS do damage? You don't need fancy secondary ailments to have weight to damage.

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But the tanks and dps also bring their own non-diminishing debuffs with them, which kind of boosts their utility massively with certain other jobs. Slash debuffs increase war/ninja/pld damage or piercing debuffs for drg/bard.
Healers get debuffs that are of very limited use against trash, and bosses are always immune to the effects with the exception of virus and disable which come with either a long cooldown or a immunity timer.

So why not throwing the healers a bone to more consistant debuffs? It'll incentivize them more to use their spells.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

Just because you've never seen a good dps healer or fail to do so yourself doesnt make your statement true.

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As a matter of fact, I do know of a few good healers of mine and we did run frequently with very fast clear times. However, you need to remind yourself that SE did nerf Holy in their potency, repeated themselves that healing dps is not being factored in at high difficulty content, shattered the str>all meta on tanks around 3.2 and are making vit/strength accessories limited by class.

This community is obsessed with damage, and SE will continue to wrench against that, no matter if you like it or not.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

This is completly false.
Zurvan may now be a meme, but it's still one of the best example of why Healer's DPS is important: skipping Soar drastically increase the success rate of the run. And skipping that mechanic is quite hard to do when healers aren't DPSing. Besides, during P1, there's absolutly nothing to heal if the other party members don't stand in poop. Absolutly. Nothing.

Zurvan isn't the only fight where this is happening. In fact, pretty much all fights become harder the longer they are. So, in short, if you just stand there, doing nothing while everyone is doing their best, you are actually making the fight harder, and increase the chances of not beating it.

This is the reward: higher chances of success.

Besides, if you can't understand that healers, in this game, are not designed to simply be Cure bots, then it's time to stop playing healers, because you drag everyone down.
Or just quit the game entirely, I don't think we'll miss people with that lazy, entitled, and egoistic mentality.

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Frankly, if they would've known that Soar was skippable in that way, they might have changed it accordingly before the patch did hit live.
And healers will remain healers and not support dps, unless SE tells them otherwise, not the community.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

As a matter of fact, I do know of a few good healers of mine and we did run frequently with very fast clear times. However, you need to remind yourself that SE did nerf Holy in their potency, repeated themselves that healing dps is not being factored in at high difficulty content, shattered the str>all meta on tanks around 3.2 and are making vit/strength accessories limited by class.

This community is obsessed with damage before all, and SE will continue to wrench against that, no matter if you like it or not.

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Oh? Last time I checked, they said something about being able to dps freely without cleric stance and removing accuracy requirements, which makes
it even easier to dps as a healer. Also, Holy got nerfed because it was ridiculously OP. And it still is amazing even now.

No matter if you like it or not.

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Originally Posted by Hitsuzen

No one is going to kick a healer and risk waiting another 20 minutes in queue

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Tanks, healers. Doesn't matter. You messing around, you being lazy? Not in my party.

I've kicked plenty of tanks before. I'll just proceed without them if I have to.

Healers less often because I usually play healer myself. But nobody gets a free pass.

It's not like healers couldn't DPS without the stance dance. They just did less damage. It was most useful in solo PVE and as a cross class with arcanist to get rid of those stupid stat switch scrolls. Really, a healer's job is healing, any extra damage they toss off while keeping everyone from being dead is a bonus.

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Originally Posted by Taika

No one said that. People are saying you're more likely to get kicked for not using your DPS abilities now, since the cleric stance excuse is out of the picture.

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Just give it some time when it does come about. I can guarantee people will be kicking healers for not having it. We will (eventually) become that stupid.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I dont care about that changes. lol

I still WONT dps when I play as HEALER in dungeons groups!

Why people think healer classes have to do 2 jobs and tank and dps classes only do 1 job..?

Once DPS's or Tanks has the same healspells healer has, only then I will DPS as healer in groups too! o_o

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While I don't mind the healers not DPSing, unlike the more vocal peers, I do mind if you refuse to contribute when necessary. If you hold the means between wipe and victory, possibly due to fight mechanics (e.g. CC'd DPS that need to be freed through damage), and you refuse to do it on principle rather than ignorance of the fight, that's where you are part of the (if not the sole) problem with the group. You can't be an impartial bystander when a big problem is because of you. This applies to any role or player, when you really break it down.

I knew this would happen; SE gives you no excuse not to dps now and people are already preemptively making up new excuses. Why was my enjoyment taken away for the sake of people like this? I am glad for the healers it may genuinely help but for the ones still chanting dps is optional you are spitting on my grave right now.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Tanks, healers. Doesn't matter. You messing around, you being lazy? Not in my party.

I've kicked plenty of tanks before. I'll just proceed without them if I have to.

Healers less often because I usually play healer myself. But nobody gets a free pass.

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Need more people like us :3

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

Oh? Last time I checked, they said something about being able to dps freely without cleric stance and removing accuracy requirements, which makes
it even easier to dps as a healer. Also, Holy got nerfed because it was ridiculously OP. And it still is amazing even now.

No matter if you like it or not.

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The accuracy changes were a global improvement (if I'd hazard a guess, it was because of those weird accuracy requirements on savage content), along with parry being obsolete and paladin blocking now also works on magic attacks.
Just because the healers can dps, doesn't mean they should.

Here, because people love to use this one:

http://i.imgur.com/GHQlIYA.jpg

Emphasis on may here, if you need to know what it means.

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Originally Posted by SlogDog

I knew this would happen; SE gives you no excuse not to dps now and people are already preemptively making up new excuses. Why was my enjoyment taken away for the sake of people like this? I am glad for the healers it may genuinely help but for the ones still chanting dps is optional you are spitting on my grave right now.

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You didnt die in vain. I know Im not the only one who will push more dps because of the change. Knowing a random bit of lag wont assist me in killing my party is a godsend.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

The accuracy changes were a global improvement (if I'd hazard a guess, it was because of those weird accuracy requirements on savage content), along with parry being obsolete and paladin blocking now also works on magic attacks.Just because the healers can dps, doesn't mean they should.

Here, because people love to use this one:

http://i.imgur.com/GHQlIYA.jpg

Emphasis on may here, if you need to know what it means.

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DPS should DPS then?

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Originally Posted by Hamada

This is a problem with people that can't get a full picture and tell people what is wrong. If a healer is running out of mp, it is a HIGH CHANCE there is a DPS problem. A good example was last week when my friend took whm to expert. Every pull she OOM, and she knew it was because the brd was very bad. (wide volley spam, no dot spread, so on) So after OOM on the first boss she said ballad me, and spamed holy(trash ofc) and such more to make up for the brd's lack of DPS.

If a healer is running out of MP it can be for the following reasons:
Tank is bad/ undergeared/ ilevel bypassing/ not using CDS/ standing in too much bad
DPS are not doing enough damage/ilevel bypassing/ using wrong rotations/ not using buffs/improper secondaries
Healer overhealing/ healer overdpsing (holy overlaping stuns can be an issue, if you do not space it out so monsters have the full stun effect, then people take more damage then need be)

A good healer should be able point out those problems, work out a solution, or back off on dps.

Healers need to DPS if you are trying world first, other then that no they do not need to, but I will find it insulting just to stand there doing a single action 20 sec-1 min. I done A1S farming as a solo healer where cleminty here and there and selene was the only healing going on.

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i270 brd too

If you are standing around doing nothing, then you will be kicked in my party. It is also not enjoyable to spam heals to heal someone to only recover 100 hp or less each time. If tanks can't hit 1 button a minute and get away with it, or dps, healers shouldn't.

I have the option to DPS off auto attacks, how would most feel about that?

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

If the players who watched the Live Letter and want kick Healers that don't DPS, they heard what Yoshi P said. He said if a healer don't want to DPS is ok. And it is not the first time he said it. So, please, stop with this. Heal DPS is a option, not a obligation, and that won't change on Stormblood.

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Yoshi also said all jobs are balanced and can clear everything. It didn't stop people from making memes out of Monk and Paladin. The community does what it wants and this change practically guarantees a large amount of statics will kick healers who aren't DPSing.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Tanks, healers. Doesn't matter. You messing around, you being lazy? Not in my party.

I've kicked plenty of tanks before. I'll just proceed without them if I have to.

Healers less often because I usually play healer myself. But nobody gets a free pass.

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Agreed, granted I will check my FC and friends first before kicking them but you can bet if one of them says yes, I will throw up a vote kick very quickly and even chime in "I got a replacement ready"