Fix Sumnmoner

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HexWeaver

Poison isn't a real summoner skill? Rydia had Bio in FF4 and she could successfully poison every single boss in the game, in fact it was one of her strongest spells.

Just because it's different to XI or how more 'modern' FF summoners like Yuna battles doesn't mean it's invalid.

---

Rydia was also a Black Mage, like how Rosa was an Archer/White Mage hybrid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

The problem is every other week their are new players trying Summoner and posting threads that the current Summoner isn't an Actual Summoner. I know this is an MMO but SE still should make Summoner stay true to its single player Final Fantasy Image. The Summoner has both an identity and image problem that should be addressed with the new battle system in Heavensward.

The Summoner shoul've used Elementalist as a base since it naturally flows into the Summoner lore.

---

We don't all want what you want. You are like a broken record player. You regurgitate the same thing over and over. There is no consistent lore on how summons are handled in Final Fantasy games. You just like the image Tactics and FFV had. I prefer FFVI and FFVII and how they handled their summons. We only know the current lore. There could easily be a Primal of Death.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrejyaAthenes

Rydia was also a Black Mage, like how Rosa was an Archer/White Mage hybrid.

---

Yeah she was, but BLM is already a stand alone job so of course that doesn't apply here. My point is people are acting as if a SMN using spells like bio is totally blasphemous toward the concept of an FF Summoner when in fact it is not.

I think people are missing the point. We are not saying we want ARR's SMN to be changed to its XI counterpart. We are just citing that as an example to show it is possible to have a more pet focused job in an MMO, and therefore possible to implement a more Egi focused play style to the ARR SMN.

Personally I enjoy playing the current SMN. However I can also admit to its faults that need changing. I do not expect to be able to summon a full Primal, nor should we (unless as an LB) but what I do think we need is for the SMN's new abilities to start becoming more focused on the Egi and commanding it. Which is something I bet SE will do anyways as a natural form of job progression. I would also like to see slightly larger Egi, but as long as the play style becomes more focused on the Egi then I'm happy enough with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

I would also like to see slightly larger Egi, but as long as the play style becomes more focused on the Egi than I'm happy enough with that.

---

The only danger is if it is too pet focused then we could miss out on potential dps. Pet dies and you are minimally contributing. The balance is real. But I would love a bigger EGI so it doesn't get lost in the chaos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

I think people are missing the point. We are not saying we want ARR\\'s SMN to be changed to its XI counterpart. We are just citing that as an example to show it is possible to have a more pet focused job in an MMO, and therefore possible to implement a more Egi focused play style to the ARR SMN.

Personally I enjoy playing the current SMN. However I can also admit to it\\'s faults that need changing. I do not expect to be able to summon a full Primal, nor should we (unless as an LB) but what I do think we need is for the SMN\\'s new abilities to start becoming more focused on the Egi and commanding it. Which is something I bet SE will do anyways as a natural form of job progression. I would also like to see slightly larger Egi, but as long as the play style becomes more focused on the Egi than I\\'m happy enough with that.

---

Exactly. Several people opposing a redesign have argued incoherently ridiculous troll things like "so you want ppl to watch a long cutscene while you summon Garuda?"

Others have said dumb things like: it won\\'t work any other way in an mmo herpa derpa...

That\\'s why the reference to XI is made because ffxi avatars were not over cumbersome, they were decent sized and some even had a solid design. Plus its a concept from an existing SE product, so with all these benefits of using it as a concept for xiv... What\\'s so hard for some ppl to grasp about this?

Seems like the majority of those opposing a change are more cynical than helpful... And what\\'s the use of that to anyone?

If you\\'re going to waste time posting WHY a smn redesign won\\'t work, be more creative than just "hurrr durr i haz Internet\\'s knowledge I can make all the hate flow... No smn chabge , fine as is derpa derpa...".

And stop using silly reasons like lore. The lore is open to interpretation. Some have said " doesn't make sense for us to do that as Scions..." < well then why did SE ALLOW us to summon them in the first place... Come on man get real

Most these people just seem like they wanna argue for the sake of argument... I love summoner, always have, and I know summoner well through out the franchise. I wanna enjoy playing it like its meant to be, and obviously the countless complaints on this are proof enough that others do too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wintersandman

The only danger is if it is too pet focused then we could miss out on potential dps. Pet dies and you are minimally contributing. The balance is real. But I would love a bigger EGI so it doesn't get lost in the chaos.

---

This is true, becoming too reliant on the Egi could become troublesome so a balance definitely needs to be maintained. But right now it often feels like the Egi fades into the background, so some new Egi focused abilities might help tie it into the play style more. I would also love to see some bigger Egi though for sure. Nothing too crazy, but at least something that is comparable to the size of our Chocobo companion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Snip

---

So what do you say to people who actually enjoy playing SMN, "Sorry but your opinions don't matter even though it's your main?" I've made my suggestion to better improve SMN in it's current form without a complete redesign so no, we aren't just tossing random opposition for the sake of troll. We don't want the class we enjoy to be completely changed to something else just because a few people continuously say it doesn't feel smn-y enough. I hated summoner in FFXI because it was /37 WHM but I got over and played another job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dyvid

I hated summoner in FFXI because it was /37 WHM but I got over and played another job.

---

The XI SMN did indeed essentially become just a glorified WHM in most parties, though I think that has changed more in recent years. However it can't be denied that ARR's SMN definitely has some advantages over it's XI counterpart for sure. The fact you don't have to rest to constantly top up your MP pool is pretty great for a start and the fact we can have the Egi constantly summoned is awesome too. So credit where credit is due. Nevertheless I still hope for a slightly more Egi focused play style as we go Heavensward ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

I think people are missing the point. We are not saying we want ARR's SMN to be changed to its XI counterpart. We are just citing that as an example to show it is possible to have a more pet focused job in an MMO, and therefore possible to implement a more Egi focused play style to the ARR SMN.

Personally I enjoy playing the current SMN. However I can also admit to its faults that need changing. I do not expect to be able to summon a full Primal, nor should we (unless as an LB) but what I do think we need is for the SMN's new abilities to start becoming more focused on the Egi and commanding it. Which is something I bet SE will do anyways as a natural form of job progression. I would also like to see slightly larger Egi, but as long as the play style becomes more focused on the Egi then I'm happy enough with that.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Exactly. Several people opposing a redesign have argued incoherently ridiculous troll things like "so you want ppl to watch a long cutscene while you summon Garuda?"

Others have said dumb things like: it won\\'t work any other way in an mmo herpa derpa...

That\\'s why the reference to XI is made because ffxi avatars were not over cumbersome, they were decent sized and some even had a solid design. Plus its a concept from an existing SE product, so with all these benefits of using it as a concept for xiv... What\\'s so hard for some ppl to grasp about this?

Seems like the majority of those opposing a change are more cynical than helpful... And what\\'s the use of that to anyone?

If you\\'re going to waste time posting WHY a smn redesign won\\'t work, be more creative than just "hurrr durr i haz Internet\\'s knowledge I can make all the hate flow... No smn chabge , fine as is derpa derpa...".

And stop using silly reasons like lore. The lore is open to interpretation. Some have said " doesn't make sense for us to do that as Scions..." < well then why did SE ALLOW us to summon them in the first place... Come on man get real

Most these people just seem like they wanna argue for the sake of argument... I love summoner, always have, and I know summoner well through out the franchise. I wanna enjoy playing it like its meant to be, and obviously the countless complaints on this are proof enough that others do too

---

These two post, in my opinion, have made the most sense so far. Personally, I never played XI so I only get the references through what I read, not actually by playing. But personally I don't think references should be made to XI, since the imagery brings up something else.

The current summoner has some "minor" issues, but nothing so bad that a complete overhaul is needed. And as I have said in other posts and threads, the best way to fix summoner would be to make it so that each pet is more viable in combat. This way you could use and egi in combat, and not have people complain that you are not using one over the others, ie Garuda or Ifrit. This would give the pet more focus, which is what people want, but wouldn't outright change the entire design of the job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Why are you people even wasting your time mocking requests to change smn by people who play it and obviously want it changed?

There are legitimate flaws with the job other than the obvious Egis and shared class structure of ACN.

Stop trolling.

---

Here's a game for you. Check all of Akizas posts, control+f the words Summoner or SMN and see how many results you get. The answer may surprise you.

Have fun.

The thing is, even if we get 3 new summons, the gameplay won't change, there will be one egi that dominates the others. We need a way to swap and combo summons, like a pet rotation or something. Or some new summon related stack system that increases the more we summon and we use it for stuff like Enkindle. The recast on Enkindle is so big and it isn't that powerful. All pet skills have a too long recast so it feels like we don't actually interact with the pet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Make the Summoner a hybrid Summoner/Elementalist specializing in Massive AoE Bursts with solid Single Target
Enkindle's 300s cool down is to long for the amount of damage it does and should be reduced to 120s

---

no. just take it out of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hagen

The thing is, even if we get 3 new summons, the gameplay won't change, there will be one egi that dominates the others. We need a way to swap and combo summons, like a pet rotation or something. Or some new summon related stack system that increases the more we summon and we use it for stuff like Enkindle. The recast on Enkindle is so big and it isn't that powerful. All pet skills have a too long recast so it feels like we don't actually interact with the pet.

---

Pet specific buffs would be an easy way to do this. Like Ifrit's Radiant shield.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Exactly. Several people opposing a redesign have argued incoherently ridiculous troll things like "so you want ppl to watch a long cutscene while you summon Garuda?"

Others have said dumb things like: it won\\'t work any other way in an mmo herpa derpa...

That\\'s why the reference to XI is made because ffxi avatars were not over cumbersome, they were decent sized and some even had a solid design. Plus its a concept from an existing SE product, so with all these benefits of using it as a concept for xiv... What\\'s so hard for some ppl to grasp about this?

Seems like the majority of those opposing a change are more cynical than helpful... And what\\'s the use of that to anyone?

If you\\'re going to waste time posting WHY a smn redesign won\\'t work, be more creative than just "hurrr durr i haz Internet\\'s knowledge I can make all the hate flow... No smn chabge , fine as is derpa derpa...".

And stop using silly reasons like lore. The lore is open to interpretation. Some have said " doesn't make sense for us to do that as Scions..." < well then why did SE ALLOW us to summon them in the first place... Come on man get real

Most these people just seem like they wanna argue for the sake of argument... I love summoner, always have, and I know summoner well through out the franchise. I wanna enjoy playing it like its meant to be, and obviously the countless complaints on this are proof enough that others do too

---

When the team went to design and add the summoner class, they had full access to all of FFXI's design. They were quite capable of The warlock's Demonology line in WoW has over timed evolved from being focused on pets to being focused on managing when the player switches into and out of Metamorphosis.you want ppl to watch a long cutscene while you summon Garuda?"

Others have said dumb things like: it won\\'t work any other way in an mmo herpa derpa...

That\\'s why the reference to XI is made because ffxi avatars were not over cumbersome, they were decent sized and some even had a solid design. Plus its a concept from an existing SE product, so with all these benefits of using it as a concept for xiv... What\\'s so hard for some ppl to grasp about this?

Seems like the majority of those opposing a change are more cynical than helpful... And what\\'s the use of that to anyone?

If you\\'re going to waste time posting WHY a smn redesign won\\'t work, be more creative than just "hurrr durr i haz Internet\\'s knowledge I can make all the hate flow... No smn chabge , fine as is derpa derpa...".

And stop using silly reasons like lore. The lore is open to interpretation. Some have said " doesn't make sense for us to do that as Scions..." < well then why did SE ALLOW us to summon them in the first place... Come on man get real

Most these people just seem like they wanna argue for the sake of argument... I love summoner, always have, and I know summoner well through out the franchise. I wanna enjoy playing it like its meant to be, and obviously the countless complaints on this are proof enough that others do too[/QUOTE]

When the team went to design and add the summoner class, they had full access to all of FFXI's design. They were quite capable of building a more pet focused summoner, yet, they didn't. Another point to think about. There are issues with pet focused classes in an MMO environment. They don't creep up in solo or group leveling play, but they do pop up in PvP and longer term raiding. Specifically, the issue is about the fact that when the pet is down, that's a huge gap in the player's abilities. In addition, pet commonly share the mob's ai system and are susceptible to exploits and bugs that other classes are not susceptible to.

To answer your question about FFXI, the design was not as solid as you remember. The vast majority of the time, the class was nothing more than a second rate healer with a large magic pool, that was passed over for groups unless you had Fenrir for the buffs. They had their niche moments and abilities (every class did), but in the end, they were no where what Akiza has repeatedly asked for. Again, you need to ask yourself why Yoshi and the others did not implement the class like FFXIV.

For lore purposes, the fact that we're Scions is not all that important. Our group association does not impact that fact that we have the Echo, are resistant to tempering, and absorb some of the primal's aetheric essence when we beat it. Those 2 factors are enough to qualify us for summons. The claim that Scions wouldn't do it is purely ideological. Minifilia and the other never made an indication for or against, so the assumption is they were fine with it.

Finally, "as it's meant to be" is meaningless. When you play a summoner in FFXIV, you are playing the summoner as it's meant to be, on the basis that Square Enix defines what a summoner is and that changes per game. You may not like this design of the class, and that's fine, and it does have problems, as all classes do. The problem is you want a redesign of the class, and it's never been indicated Square would to that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delily

The problem is you want a redesign of the class, and it's never been indicated Square would to that.

---

I think it's fair to say SE will not rework SMN from the ground up, coz frankly the SMN in it's current state isn't actually a broken job. It just needs a slight focus shift. People saying it should be reworked into an elemental burst DPS class are way off base. BLM already has the burst DPS corner covered so that's never going to change. SMN works perfectly fine using DoT based attacks so no need to change that. All it needs is a larger focus on Egi with maybe some elemental based DoTs and some tweaks to Enkindle. Some Egi based utility spells would be pretty cool too. Though I think anything support based would more likely go to SCH, since they will need some love to.

I wonder why players want some kind of big summons that would probably interfere ppl doing some mechanics and for that reason some players probably would not even want to play with summoners anymore. Those big creatures do not fit mmo game at all.

Summoner lore is consistent throughout Final Fantasy. Summoner's harness the power of the Summons to cause a combined Black Magic and White Magic Effect and call forth Summon Monsters. With their Summon Summoners have enough power to destroy an entire city. The problem is the Summoner doesn't feel very powerful while the Black Mage even though its not putting out insane damage still feels like a very powerful. In any given match up the Summoner will reduce the Black Mage to ash since Summoning Magic is stronger than Black Magic so why did SE make the Summoner feel weak in comparison to the Black Mage when Summoners are so much more powerful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunako

I wonder why players want some kind of big summons that would probably interfere ppl doing some mechanics and for that reason some players probably would not even want to play with summoners anymore. Those big creatures do not fit mmo game at all.

---

With foot work/dodging being a key feature in ARR game play it is understandable why a massive Summon could cause issues for other players, such as blocking enemy attack telegraphs and what not. However I think there is room to increase the size of the Egi a little without them negatively effecting game play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunako

I wonder why players want some kind of big summons that would probably interfere ppl doing some mechanics and for that reason some players probably would not even want to play with summoners anymore. Those big creatures do not fit mmo game at all.

---

No one is asking for a Big Summon for a pet the Egis should still be the Permanent Pet but what I'm asking for is a spell that allow us to fuse with the Egi and Summon the Primal like Lady Iceheart. Maybe SE can call it ritual summon and give it to us when we get the Shiva Egi.

Limit Break 3 should be Grand Summon - Summoners summon the Primal and it instantly does its Signature Attack and leave without using Enkindle's cool down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

a spell that allow us to fuse with the Egi and Summon the Primal like Lady Iceheart. Maybe SE can call it ritual summon and give it to us when we get the Shiva Egi.

---

I think many people would like slightly larger Egi. But I guess you liked my idea about a SMN that fuses with the Primal Aether then since it's in keeping with Iceheart/Shiva's lore. However such a thing would only be possible if the job was totally reworked. Hence why I suggested it as a tank, that was just me throwing random ideas around though lol. It would not work with the current SMN job as it would be giving them far too many game play mechanics at once.

Unique LB's are confirmed for all jobs so it seems pretty obvious the SMN's LB will relate to summoning some kind of Primal or larger Egi.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Summoner lore is consistent throughout Final Fantasy. Summoner's harness the power of the Summons to cause a combined Black Magic and White Magic Effect and call forth Summon Monsters. With their Summon Summoners have enough power to destroy an entire city. The problem is the Summoner doesn't feel very powerful while the Black Mage even though its not putting out insane damage still feels like a very powerful. In any given match up the Summoner will reduce the Black Mage to ash since Summoning Magic is stronger than Black Magic so why did SE make the Summoner feel weak in comparison to the Black Mage when Summoners are so much more powerful.

---

Not exactly true. You're cherry picking certain instances and ignoring th- oh, it's, nevermind.

okay. All of the people who wants the current summoner that is branching from arcanist to be re-designed: There are people who enjoy the current summoner as it is and they don't want any changes to happen for it.
So, instead of trying to re-design the current summoner, as it's linked to arcanist, which means you'd have to re-design arcanist also, which means you'd also had to change scholar's base spells that come from arcanist, what 'bout you'd ask the re-design in this way:

1. New Job without a base class called Summoner.
2. Current Summoner re-named to something else.
3. Current summoner's job quest skills reworked
4. Current Summoner continues to use carbuncles(because scholar still needs the arcanist base class skills called Summon + Summon II(those skills should be renamed if this is going to happen)).
5. The new implemented summoner would work more summoner-ly like most of the people who are unpleased with current summoner wish it to be.
6. Everyone's happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

Not exactly true. You're cherry picking certain instances and ignoring th- oh, it's, nevermind.

---

Summoner's has been connected to the 1 of 3 jobs throughout Final Fantasy the Black Mage, Elementalist and White Mage but the one thing that was prominent was the Summoning. Summoning Magic was always stronger than Black Magic, it was the difference between dropping a Hydrogen Bomb which can level entire cities and firing a missile which can only destroy a certain area. Summoner's have always had more destructive power than the Black Mag but in FFXIV their portrayed as a weak Scholar.

SMN doesn't need a redesign! It's not a broken job so it's silly to rework it from the ground up. Considering the lore of Primals and how they are summoned, you could argue we are lucky to even have a SMN job at all. So we should count our blessings. I would much rather have the SMN as it is to no SMN at all, and that's ok coz the current SMN is actually fun. All it needs is some tweaks (Enkindle/More focus on the Egi/Slightly larger Egi). End of. Next topic...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Summoner's has been connected to the 1 of 3 jobs throughout Final Fantasy the Black Mage, Elementalist and White Mage but the one thing that was prominent was the Summoning. Summoning Magic was always stronger than Black Magic, it was the difference between dropping a Hydrogen Bomb which can level entire cities and firing a missile which can only destroy a certain area. Summoner's have always had more destructive power than the Black Mag but in FFXIV their portrayed as a weak Scholar.

---

Not always stronger.
*coughFF14cough*
FF9s Ultima as well.

I'll stop prodding. Anyways, FF14s SMNs ARENT going to be burst mages. Dwelling on what YOU would like them to be only hurts yourself and annoys others. SMNs don't need to be reworked. They just need to be in competition with BLM for casting spots in statics. That's it. FF14 Primals so far have been absolutely piteous in terms of power that they've shown anyways (outside of Elder Primals).

Kinda was hoping they would of released some info regarding the spellspeed changes for dots, or anything about summoner. My guess is most of the class info is lined up for the May live letter they mentioned. All in all I expect they have listened and read enough feedback, that they know something with summoner needs to be changed and probably will be. My feeling about current patch is that summoner seems to be getting the dragoon type treatment in regards to the endgame content atm.
I'm hearing lines like:
"The problem is even in full throttle, SMN is no match for BLM at the moment."
"Why play a summoner atm you are holding your raid dps back."
"Summoner has very hard job justifying the caster slot instead of BLM."

More often than I care to see or hear about.

Summoner is un satisfying because of cool downs.
Enkindle the only ability that makes us feel like a Summoner and its on a 300s cool down which is to long for the damage it does. This ability should be reduced to 120s and the cool down should be locked to to the individual Pet not a global coo l down.
Ifrit Egi-Radiant Shiel should be removed and replaced with an AoE ability
Garuda Egi- Remove Contagion and replace it with an AoE ability.
Increase DoT effects for 15s.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Summoner lore is consistent throughout Final Fantasy.

---

Yeah, man. The Fayth, Espers, and the Primals are all the same thing, right?

And for everyone who says that SmN is all about burst damage, you don't seem to have a problem with Yuna.

re: powerlevel comparisons:

Across FF, BLM would just cast Silence. GG, no summons. enjoy NUKE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AniCelestine

All of the people who wants the current summoner that is branching from arcanist to be re-designed: There are people who enjoy the current summoner as it is and they don't want any changes to happen for it.

---

Unfortunately for those who would like to see the Summoner job completely reworked, having current players who do enjoy Summoner the way it's designed is precisely the reason why I don't think SE would make any drastic change. They have expressed that kind of attitude towards other subjects as well. While Summoner will gain new abilities on the way up to level 60 and beyond, which might raise the cool factor up a notch, at its core it isn't going to change much and people will continue to ask for more. At this point I more expect an entirely separate Evoker job that uses summons in a different way to be added to the game before we see any major overhaul to Summoner, but even the possibility of that happening is still quite a ways down the road.

Akiza you need to stop saying the same thing over and over. Literally everyone has heard this a thousand times already even before you started spamming it. We all want Enkindle to be a true summon attack and so on, and Square Enix knows this well.

You also need to stop using the word "Elementalist" in every other sentence as if this is a word people should know the meaning of. I've played every FF game and none of them have a class called Elementalist, so you just come off sounding really weird and most people probably don't know what you mean.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Takfloyd

Akiza you need to stop saying the same thing over and over. Literally everyone has heard this a thousand times already even before you started spamming it. We all want Enkindle to be a true summon attack and so on, and Square Enix knows this well.

You also need to stop using the word "Elementalist" in every other sentence as if this is a word people should know the meaning of. I've played every FF game and none of them have a class called Elementalist, so you just come off sounding really weird and most people probably don't know what you mean.

---

Funnily enough, Elementalist did exist in Final Fantasy....Tactics....Advance...as a Viera-exclusive job that was basically a summoner. And 4 Warriors of light. Woo. According to FFwiki, the tactics one was more about inflicting status effects anyway, so guess what? It's already like Elementalist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blueyes

Unfortunately for those who would like to see the Summoner job completely reworked, having current players who do enjoy Summoner the way it's designed is precisely the reason why I don't think SE would make any drastic change. They have expressed that kind of attitude towards other subjects as well. While Summoner will gain new abilities on the way up to level 60 and beyond, which might raise the cool factor up a notch, at its core it isn't going to change much and people will continue to ask for more. At this point I more expect an entirely separate Evoker job that uses summons in a different way to be added to the game before we see any major overhaul to Summoner, but even the possibility of that happening is still quite a ways down the road.

---

Summoner's are the evolved Evoker so it would be a downgrade and redundant to add an Evoker to this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmewKitsune

Yeah, man. The Fayth, Espers, and the Primals are all the same thing, right?

And for everyone who says that SmN is all about burst damage, you don't seem to have a problem with Yuna.

re: powerlevel comparisons:

Across FF, BLM would just cast Silence. GG, no summons. enjoy NUKE.

---

Fayth are Aeons which are Summons for Final Fantasy X, Espers are created Summon Monsters from Final Fantasy XII and and Primals are Summons for Final Fantasy XIV.
People don't have a problem with Yuna because the Summoner was the main focus not the White Mage. The Summoned Monsters themselves do AoE Bursts Damage.
Power level wises the casting magic of the Summoner was generally weaker than their Summon.

I want Enkindle's cool down to be reduced to 120s and locked to the Egi not Summon the Primal that should be a level 60 spell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Fayth are Aeons which are Summons for Final Fantasy X, Espers are created Summon Monsters from Final Fantasy XII and and Primals are Summons for Final Fantasy XIV.

---

I was talking from a lore perspective. I assure you, they are NOT the same thing, even mechanically. Saying they are "consistent across the board" is erroneous. All that's the same is "power comes from somewhere else". By the way, I wasn't referring to FFVI when I said "Espers".

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/E...al_Fantasy_XII)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

People don't have a problem with Yuna because the Summoner was the main focus not the White Mage. The Summoned Monsters themselves do AoE Bursts Damage.
Power level wises the casting magic of the Summoner was generally weaker than their Summon.

---

Oh no, they aren't. Yuna's main combat focus WAS White Mage. Summons were rarely used because no Party member could act while summoned, thus on random encounters, useless. That, and IN 10, while most players don't even bother with it unless they had Grand Summon for it's Overdrive, which I guess makes it burst damage, except that's not the main function of summons. They were just a big player that had tons of HP, and didn't learn any ability.

I think everyone understands that this isn't ffxi. We also don't need to be told this game won't be ffxi-2 we know that as well. The thing is, is ffxi is the closest style of a ff that can be compared to this one and it's more along the line of players wanting to be summoners and having the expectations that summoner here would be similar to summoner I previous final Fantasy games, and it's not. Not even close. It's more akin to warlock from wow but shittier. I personally don't care if the job has elemental, death or poison magic. What I care about is the fact that our pets are just cast and go. Throw a few macros abilities of theirs occasionally but for the most part you can forget they're there. Plus the graphics.. The Horrible graphics. This job was clearly rushed and no it was not executed well, it wasn't received well either which is why it clearly was not executed well.

Also, we did not need another thread on this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

post

---

Two things:
1) YoshiP also conveyed his frustration with having to balance pet jobs. I believe he used SMN to explain why DRG would not be getting a wyvern pet.

2) You reminded me how egi fit into the lore as summoning the actual primal itself would be frowned upon and contradictory to you as a warrior of light...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Takfloyd

Akiza you need to stop saying the same thing over and over.

---

It really doesn't matter. SE is NOT going to completely rewrite a job because some people on the forums "dont like how it feels". Her time, or anyone really who proposes radical changes to the job, would be better served making posts about feasible changes to the job. Such as focusing more the egi as opposed to dots in the future and statuses or improving some of the more lackluster spells at the summoner's disposal.


For instance in the future I would like to see the job shift more to a utility style of play where the entire party might benefit from the egi (i.e. party wide buff or big debuffs to the enemies in the encounter depending on the egi that is present. Essentially more egi utility that makes them more party friendly, rather than being delegated to garuda most of the time because Ifrit can be a dumbass at times, then again so can garuda so.. whatever) I don't think that is asking for too much and would certainly give the job a little bit more of being a desirable job to add to a party than it's current state.


Also ,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eloah

Haven't you ever heard big things come in small packages. Plus with everything that happens on screen would you really want a huge summon fighting along side you.

---

Huge? No. Slightly bigger and more detailed so that it actually resembles the essence of the primal you're summoning? Yes.

SE has created 3 Methods of Summoning in Final Fantasy
Partner Summoning - Summon Summoned Monsters as an ally to fight by the player size which is the method of Summoning most people know.
Society Summoning- The Summoning Method Beasts Tribes uses to Summon their God
Incarnate Summoning- The Summoning method used in FFXIII by Ciaus to when he manifested Bahumat in his own body transforming into the Eidolon. Louisoix Leveilleur used Incarnate Summoning to Summon the Primal Pheonix and Lady Iceheart uses Incarnate Summoning to Summon Shiva.

Incarnate Summoning is an ability that can be given to the Summoner and work similar to WoW Warlock Metamorphosis where the player transforms into the Demon temporaraly with a 10s cool down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Incarnate Summoning is an ability that can be given to the Summoner and work similar to WoW Warlock Metamorphosis where the player transforms into the Demon temporaraly with a 10s cool down.

---

Why would anybody want this? That sounds profoundly lame. I can't imagine this appealing to any one over the age of 14. Please god stop with the threads, they're all the same, they're never constructive - ever.